f13.net

Does this kind of crazy shit only happen in the US? I've never heard of anything like this outside of this country.

They don't seem to have released a list of the deceased yet.

Kristyn Heiser said she was in class about 9:30 a.m. when she and her classmates saw about six gun-wielding police officers run by a window.

"We were like, 'What's going on?' Because this definitely is a quaint town where stuff doesn't really happen. It's pretty boring here," said Heiser during a phone interview as she sat on her classroom floor.

I doubt they will until the final numbers on casualties are confirmed

I can't imagine how every single parent who has a child attending school must feel.

Those dumbfucks on Fox News had Jack Thompson on a little while ago spouting his crap. I hate the U.S. media with a passion.

Didn't even wait until the bodies were cold, eh?

Quebec too, not really Canada but still outside the US.

Didn't even wait until the bodies were cold, eh?

It's been almost 10 years since I graduated, but it's no less bothersome to see pictures of my old stomping ground in such a tragic light.

Stormfront:

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Gun control politics debate moved to here (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=9814.0). Carry on.

Face it America, we're fucked.

You moved me to politics. I am slain :cry:

Students of Liviu Librescu, 76, a holocaust survivor who was an engineering science and mathematics lecturer at Virginia Tech for 20 years, sent e-mails to his wife, Marlena, telling of how he blocked the gunman's way and saved their lives, said the son, Joe.

"My father blocked the doorway with his body and asked the students to flee," Joe Librescu said in a telephone interview from his home outside of Tel Aviv. "Students started opening windows and jumping out."

You can't legally purchase a handgun unless you're a citizen.

The guns are fine. Its the fact that he likes Fall Out Boy that's fucking psychotic.

The release of the video for Porcupine Tree's new album had unfortunate timing (about 4 hours before the first shooting). (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=2021941683)

Video withdrawn
 
In view of the events yesterday in Virginia, the video clip for Fear of a Blank Planet has been withdrawn until further notice.

And? It's not like it's difficult to find handguns, I could probably go grab an illegal gun this afternoon if I wanted to. Part of that wonderfully effective War on Drugs.

It's crucial for the safety of private citizens to be able to get CCW permits imo. Because limiting the legal availability of guns means only criminals have them, and you're fucked. Criminals don't, you know, obey the law.

Police are only good for cleaning up the crime scene.

Interesting that he's a foreigner, considering that he had two handguns on him.  You can't legally purchase a handgun unless you're a citizen.

 "One law enforcement official said Cho's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol." (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070417/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting)

Gun control wouldn't have stopped this asshole since his guns were illegal to begin with.

Okay. I just checked. In Pennsylvania, I can still legally purchase a handgun (as many as I want in fact) as a resident alien. Provided that I'm over 18 and pass a NICS check (no federal crimes listed) I can pick up a gun without permit, training, or anything else. For concealable weapons, I'd have to provide a name and address for local police records. That's it.

If you renounce citizenship you can't buy or own guns. But if you never became a citizen, that's just fine. Buy what you like lad.

Lawful Alien Status

Federal law requires a transferee (buyer) who is not a citizen of the United States to provide additional identification in order to establish that he or she is a resident of a State. Such a transferee must provide a valid government-issued photo-identification to the seller that contains the buyer’s name, date of birth, and residence address. The Alien Resident identification number or INS Admission Number must be recorded on the Virginia Firearms Transaction Record (SP-65) form. In addition, such a transferee must provide documentation such as a utility bill or lease agreement that would establish that he or she has resided for at least 90 days prior to the date of this sale.

It reminded me that in 1973 Hawkwind released their single to follow up on their chart-topping Silver Machine, a track called Urban Guerrilla. No sooner had they done so, the IRA restarted its bombing campaign on central London. The BBC refused to play the single, and the record company reluctantly withdrew it.

That said. I think it's odd that they are postponing the Gonzales hearing due to this. What's up with that?

An ape ought to be able to spell guerrilla.  :-D

As much as I despise Bush and his minions, the postponement is showing manners in the face of a national tragedy.  Besides, they're picking back up on Thursday.

Subject: Virginia Tech

By now, you have heard about the latest shootings at Virginia Tech. This morning, the Sheridan community again shares a deep pain and sadness that always follows such events. It is incomprehensible how mere months after the shootings at Dawson College, we are once more confronted with so many victims again gunned down during the pursuit of education in what should be a safe and secure environment.

The details are unclear, including the motivations of the gunman, his precise actions and the response of the school's administration and security personnel.

As always, however, we try our best to learn from tragedies such as this to better prepare and ensure the safety and security of our students, faculty and staff.

Our own procedures have been updated after extensive consultation with local and regional police forces. The installation of public address systems is underway in a phased approach to enable us to broadcast lockdown procedures. We are finding that appropriate balance to clearly and concisely communicate lockdown procedures to follow in an active shooter situation without contributing to an atmosphere of fear and anxiety.

As the details and media reports unfold, I can anticipate the analysis which will identify the forces of alienation that breed exclusion, which fosters anger and rage.

Which is why at this critical, sometimes stressful point in our academic year, I urge you to please look after each other, and look after yourselves. Seek out counselling, find support if you're feeling the pressure. Reach out to those who may be at risk and again, let's find reason to strengthen our community on the midst of theses perverse tragedies.

Rob Turner

You can learn a lot about urban warfare and police tactics from video games, actually.  Not that I'm blaming them, but they are good training tools for psychopaths.

This is in keeping with other authentic police tactics I've learned from games, like attacking a rampaging tank by driving your car under the treads, and confronting a sniper by running across a wide open field to shoot at him with a handgun.

I'm going to rob a guy, then go down to the river and stand in just the right position relative to the docks.  If video games have taught me anything about police tactics, the cops should end up zooming around a corner and driving into the water one car at a time.  If I just lie down in that spot and take a nap without moving, I should be able to kill the entire police department in a matter of hours.

This is in keeping with other authentic police tactics I've learned from games, like attacking a rampaging tank by driving your car under the treads, and confronting a sniper by running across a wide open field to shoot at him with a handgun.

If he's not a citizen then whichever dealer sold him the weapon fucked up in a big way by not running the federal background check.

This whole thing makes me angry and sad at the same time. I'm not from that area, but that myspace page someone linked to really brought it home. Most of the survivors I'm hearing about were shot multiple times and I am guessing that's how he killed so many. He filled people with bullets.

The two hour gap is what gets me. The first two could almost be considered crimes of passion, but what happened in that engineering hall is downright evil.

Crappy play authored by the shooter (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html).

Wow. I hope he was failing as an English major, because that is some shitty writing.

Yes, you can purchase a handgun if you are foreign.  It's a pain, but doable. 

Crappy play authored by the shooter (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html).

Wow. I hope he was failing as an English major, because that is some shitty writing.

It really hits you when you can put just one face on it.....Even if it is a stranger's.  :cry:

http://www.myspace.com/super_sneaky_ninja (http://www.myspace.com/super_sneaky_ninja)

What's fucked up, besides of course that this subhuman fuck decided to take out his rage on others, is how the campus authorities and local police seemed to have handled the first shooting. The email message was not enough. The school should have been closed, locked down, classes cancelled and no one allowed in (students who were driving into class and not able to get email) until they could figure out what went on. Shit, even if it had just been the two students in the dorm who shot and killed each other, you cancel class for the psychological impact alone, the whole day of mourning thing. But instead, they let classes go on, while it appears the cops tripped over their own dicks. Maybe if those classes were canceled, less would have been hit by the second shooting.

I could certainly be wrong, but as an outside asshole observer, it seems like some serious culpability lies on the school.

Several Korean youths who knew Cho Seung Hui from his high school days said he was a fan of violent video games, particularly Counterstrike, a hugely popular online game, in which players join terrorism or counterterrorism groups and try to shoot each other using all types of guns.

When I first heard about the multiple shootings at Virginia Tech yesterday, my first thought was about my friends, and my second thought was "I bet it was Seung Cho."

Cho was in my playwriting class last fall, and nobody seemed to think much of him at first. He would sit by himself whenever possible, and didn't like talking to anyone. I don't think I've ever actually heard his voice before. He was just so quiet and kept to himself. Looking back, he fit the exact stereotype of what one would typically think of as a "school shooter" – a loner, obsessed with violence, and serious personal problems. Some of us in class tried to talk to him to be nice and get him out of his shell, but he refused talking to anyone. It was like he didn't want to be friends with anybody. One friend of mine tried to offer him some Halloween candy that she still had, but he slowly shook his head, refusing it. He just came to class every day and submitted his work on time, as I understand it.

A major part of the playwriting class was peer reviews. We would write one-act plays and submit them to an online repository called Blackboard for everyone in the class to read and comment about in class the next day. Typically, the students give their opinions about the plays and suggest ways to make it better, the professor gives his insights, then asks the author to comment about the play in class.

When we read Cho's plays, it was like something out of a nightmare. The plays had really twisted, macabre violence that used weapons I wouldn't have even thought of. Before Cho got to class that day, we students were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter. I was even thinking of scenarios of what I would do in case he did come in with a gun, I was that freaked out about him. When the students gave reviews of his play in class, we were very careful with our words in case he decided to snap. Even the professor didn't pressure him to give closing comments.

"Neighbor Abdul Shash said the gunman played basketball and wouldn't respond if someone greeted him.

He was "very quiet, always by himself," said Shash.

Those tendencies carried on into college, where Cho apparently made it through nearly four years without making many friends.

Classmates said that on the first day of an introduction to British literature class last year, the 30 or so English students went around and introduced themselves.

When it was Cho's turn, he didn't speak.

The professor looked at the sign-in sheet and, where everyone else had written their names, Cho had written a question mark.

"Is your name, 'Question mark?'" classmate Julie Poole recalled the professor asking.

The young man offered little response.

Cho spent much of that class sitting in the back of the room, wearing a hat and seldom participating. In a small department, Cho distinguished himself for being anonymous.

"He didn't reach out to anyone. He never talked," Poole said. "We just really knew him as the 'question mark kid.'"

A Virginia Tech professor said Cho's work in creative-writing class was so disturbing that he had been referred to the school's counseling service.

Professor Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department, said she did not personally know the gunman.

But she said she spoke with Lucinda Roy, the department's director of creative writing, who had Cho in one of her classes and described him as "troubled."

"There was some concern about him," Rude said. "Sometimes, in creative writing, people reveal things and you never know if it's creative or if they're describing things, if they're imagining things or just how real it might be. But we're all alert to not ignore things like this."

A Virginia Tech professor said Cho's work in creative-writing class was so disturbing that he had been referred to the school's counseling service.

It sounds like they did what they could. How do you help someone like that? The guy was so antisocial that he didn't even care to acknowledge anyone or even write his name.

It might be more ironic if he was a big CS fan.  :|

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/17/AR2007041700563.html?hpid=topnews (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/17/AR2007041700563.html?hpid=topnews)

Prozac or some other happy pill?  I mean, if the new thing is to keep an eye out for people like this and yet there is nothing anyone can do once they are spotted then what is the point?

Maybe report him to the INS, brown shirts or whatever they are called now?

Investigators believe Cho at some point had been taking medication for depression.

School officials said Cho posted a deadly warning on a school online forum: "im going to kill people at vtech."

And Dr. Phil? WTF does Dr Phil know about anything?

I don't understand why people are treating him like a guy from South Korea. His family emigrated to the USA when he was aged 8.

He was only South Korean by citizenship. For all intents and purposes, he was an American kid. He was raised in US schools, lived in US suburbs and attended a US university.

He majored in English, not as a second language, but in the same way as an American citizen might consider majoring in English, because he had pretty much always lived in the USA and spoken and read English.

How do I know so much about what it's like to emigrate into a culture? Because I emigrated to Australia from Scotland at the age of 9, one year later in my life than this shooter. I'm basically an Aussie, and my sister who was aged 7 when we emigrated, is totally Aussie.

I've been back and lived in my Scottish homeland for two years. But to everyone there, I was an Aussie. Even though I consider myself Scottish-Australian, to Australians I'm also an Aussie. I sound like one, I basically am one. I contextualise everything as an Aussie. I know Australia better than I know Scotland, because this is where I grew up.

He may have had a Korean name and statistically be Korean, but I assure you this is an American massacre by a person brought up in America, not a Korean.

Let the mass media finger pointing begin! (http://gamepolitics.com/2007/04/17/dr-phil-blames-video-games-for-virginia-tech-massacre/)

If it was a high school, you'd lock the place down, so why not a college?

This is one case where there were distinct, clear signs that here was a guy likely to go out in a mass shooting spree. He was referred to counseling, which was either completely ineffectual or was hamstrung by legalities that they couldn't do anything. I'm sure they couldn't have him committed, because he hadn't actually acted on any violent impulses with suicide or attacks on others, and the cops investigated him for stalking chicks. Teachers and students were frightened of him. But what else could have been done to prevent this? The best counseling could do was apparently put him on anti-depressant drugs, which should not be considered a viable solution at all.

The kid had help available, he just chose not to take it.

As for hindsight being 20-20 on the school not locking things down, I don't buy that. When there's a shooting on campus, you lock it down. You don't have class, period. Even if it's just a suicide, you give the kids a break from classes to protect their fragile little minds. It's common courtesy to the friends of the victims, not to mention the whole potential to save other lives if there is a mad gunner on the loose. What you don't do is send out an email and let the majority of your students, the ones who don't live on campus, walk into a potential crime scene and danger zone. If it was a high school, you'd lock the place down, so why not a college?

But what else could have been done to prevent this? The best counseling could do was apparently put him on anti-depressant drugs, which should not be considered a viable solution at all.

The kid had help available, he just chose not to take it.

The firearm used in the shooting was attained legally at a Taylorsville gun shop hours before the shooting. Despite being treated for schizophrenia through an outpatient mental health treatment program, and accumulating a criminal history that included stalking, disorderly conduct, interfering with an arrest, and illegally carrying a concealed weapon, Duy was not prohibited from buying a firearm. Her mental health treatment had not been involuntary and all of her arrests were misdemeanors, therefore Duy was not prohibited from purchasing a firearm.

"Before we were even able to identity the shooter, Thompson revealed an insider's knowledge of the causes of the massacre to television audiences across the country," local Sheriff Ian Bridges told reporters. "It stands to reason, then, that Thompson must have known the shooter personally if he was able to inform viewers the individual played video games."

Officials point out that Jack Thompson has no prior history of psychic investigation or hands-on experience with augury, palmistry, cartomancy, entrail-reading or any other forms of divination. Supporters of Thompson, however, point out that the lawyer has experimented with the art of Gyromancy in the past. Gyromancy is a form of divination based on whirling around rapidly until the querent is dizzy and falls down, which some believe may be the basis of many of Thompson's theories about gun violence.

tremors

In other words, it's not because of availability of guns, violence in popular media culture (movies, games, cartoons, comic books), or anything else.

Antidepressants can cause earthquakes?  Damn, that's some Looney Tunes shit right there.

That said, I suspect that the lack of gun violence prior to the 15th century was more strongly predicated by the lack of guns.

Ah, ye goode auld dayes! When a gentle couldst lay about himself on yon playground with a stout cudgel!

And don't forget about the crossbow massacre of 1326, with a record 2 slayings.

They had mass murderers back in the day, they just called them 'Lord" and "Sir" so I can see why it would slip by you.

There's a rash of bomb and death threats going on across the country right now.

Aggrandizing sociopaths in the media only makes other sociopaths want to get in on the action.  Who knew?

I really wish the news media wouldn't name the killer.

I really wish the news media would focus more on the lives taken, who those people were and whom they would have have been instead of focusing on the person who did the destroying.

I really wish they focused on the tragedy instead of the circus.

Who are you talking to?  No one here is trying to blame "foreigners."  The only question was his legal status and whether he could legally own a gun.

There has been some speculation, especially among online forums, that Cho may have been inspired by the South Korean movie "Oldboy," part of Chan-wook Park's "Vengeance Trilogy." One of the killer's mailed photos shows him brandishing a hammer — the signature weapon of the protagonist — and in a pose similar to one from the film.

For some reason this particular crime has really affected me. I knew noone there and have never even been to Va but every time I look at the pictures of the dead and read about their lives I get upset. Even Columbine didn't have this kind of an effect on me. I don't know why it is but I alternate between shaking with rage at Cho and hoping there is a Hell so he burns in it and almost being in tears from reading about the lives that were cut short. I find myself caring less why he did it and only concerned about what he did.

For some reason this particular crime has really affected me. I knew noone there and have never even been to Va but every time I look at the pictures of the dead and read about their lives I get upset. Even Columbine didn't have this kind of an effect on me. I don't know why it is but I alternate between shaking with rage at Cho and hoping there is a Hell so he burns in it and almost being in tears from reading about the lives that were cut short. I find myself caring less why he did it and only concerned about what he did.

With the VT thing, what really hit me was that myspace link posted here a few pages ago (that "Max" girl's page really hit me hard, actually, especially the comments), it really made it real, as opposed to more shit we talk about here or shit we watch in the detatched way on the news.

Then last night, checking out CNN they had an interviewer who'd spoken to a local mortician, who didn't want to speak on camera, but the anecdote about the dead students' phones ringing and vibrating in their bodybags also hit me as a kind of nasty but realistic detail. Made me think of my classmates and their phones ringing and vibrating during lectures and tutes.

The world's just too hard. I'm totally desensitized to it now. Unless it directly touches myself of my friends, I simply can't summon any emotion for it.

I live 3 hours away, I know many friends who have gone to VT (no one there now, admittedly) and it simply doesn't affect me. Maybe it's because I've been seeing nothing but 'dozen people killed in bombing' news articles every other day for the past year.

Intellectually I understand how sad this is.  Reading the nitty-gritty details can get me to tear up, but I am avoiding most of it.  As is senseless as it is, it is more of the same senseless loss I've been reading about around the world.

I don't really get why people think this kid's writing could have been indicative of such behavior. This is the country that made the "Swa" movies profitable and popular. This is the country that watches shows like Law and Order featuring little boys getting sodomised. Where the fuck do people get off saying writing like that is any different than the movie they saw last Friday?

There's no mystery here. There's no court case. There's no trial. There's no case. IT'S OVER. Let the mourners grieve, and focus on something in which you can have a positive effect. Focus on 5 million missing emails, focus on the clusterfuck we have made of Iraq. Focus on the lack of recovery in New Orleans and the Gulf Coast. Stop carrion-feasting and start reporting on NEWS AGAIN, you sanctimonious crotch crickets.

Of all I've read on this case (hundreds of internet postings, news commentaries, etc.) this is the strangest take I've ever seen...its almost like something noninsane was translated into Swedish, then Urdu, then Japanese, and back to English.  What the hell is "Swa"?

You're right of course, Lant. To me it was just another American mass shooting till I clicked on the link in this very thread. The combo of the comments and that particular version of the Men At Work/Colin Hay song, then one of the photos on the myspace was what essentially flipped the emotional switch in my head and triggered the other shit in my head and the overall reaction, connected to the other things I mentioned earlier.

I cant get that song out of my head. I liked the Original version by Men at work, but I like the Colin Hay one as well. So now I'm in this loop of hearing the song in my head and having it remind me of poor slain Maxine Turner from that myspace page.

Please don't get me wrong.  I'm intentially avoiding most of the coverage.  The one thing I read was a collection of pictures and short bios of the victims.  I had to start skimming because I could tell I was ready to turn into a bawling baby.

If one of you can stomach reading a good portion of the MySpace page and not have it emotionally effect you, I'd call you a cold-hearted bastard.  You're not though, so don't worry about trying to justify it.

I cant get that song out of my head. I liked the Original version by Men at work, but I like the Colin Hay one as well. So now I'm in this loop of hearing the song in my head and having it remind me of poor slain Maxine Turner from that myspace page.