f13.net

ISS is falling down, falling down, falling down... (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=451617&page=1)

Short form:
Butter Dog (now ex-ISS) starts the thread defending ISS & MC fairly rabidly.
Someone from MC sends him an eve-mail asking him to cool it as he's going a little too far.
BD says "Screw you guys, I'm goin' home" and also claims that ISS is very disappointed at MC fleeing like cowards at the first sight of AAA instead of staying to fight & take two more IAC outposts like their contract stipulated.
MC says "Aw hell naw!" and starts flaming.
BD says "Hey, it's not just me - I'm just repeating what the management of ISS told me. Besides, if I was trying to hurt ISS I could have taken $$$ from the corp hangers with my old role. Also: your last 'contract' against IAC never actually had a sponsor"
Aforementioned ISS management shows up: "BD never had any role and never spoke to me"
BD: "What about this PM from you to me on our corp boards, dated a few days back, that vindicates me completely and proves that you're a liar?" *posts image*
And it continues from there. :D

Oh, and there's a GHSC cameo from Istvaan, to boot.

 :| I can't feel good about this. ISS didn't seem like giant jerks trying to take over all of 0.0, like several major alliances whom shall remain nameless.

Threads like that make me feel good about my decision to leave 0.0  :-)

ISS lost my sympathy about the same time that they removed the word 'neutral' from their charter & started offering their bases as free staging points for BoB/MC/FIX/etc.

They what now?

 ...

 :mob:

Yeesh, and I just invested a billion isk with them thinking they were stable and sensible. Oh well.

Just to clarify: The first bit is official, the second unofficial...but not really denied.

My corp recently left ISS recently when all the recent anti-ISS sentiment started and this kind of thing is exactly why

D2 (and their buddies IRON et al.) putting ISS to red after an ISS member corp passed D2 fleet movements down south to ACSN really did alot of damage (both internally and externally) to ISS (the member corp was kicked but the damage was done).

Those of us operating in the North got hammered even more than usual (D2 and friends were really the only people keeping the EC-P8R gate secure (from the likes of Triumvirate) at which point the gate became hostile pretty much 100% of the time) and it then became apparent how little ISS actually cared for the Northern members (even less for the EC-P8R locals than the Borealis guys)

Then add in the increase in membership requirments (supposedly to stop any tom, dick or harry joining - all it really did was prevent any corp under a year old from joining), the change in charter (that made ISS even less responsible for anything, even to its members) and the continuing spew from the likes of Butter Dog about how the south was much worse than the north (attempting to justify why ISSN rarely/never gets deployed in the north) and telling us how we all just sucked and just needed to get organised and better (err if I wanted to PvP 100% of the time in ISS I'd have joined ISSN......)

Eventually D2 (and some of the others like FLA) put ISS back to blue but IRON never did (and I believe still hasn't) leaving the North almost as dangerous as previously, ISS diplomats had no interest in the situation (because its 'just' IRON and all up North). The Pure Blind co-ordinator for ISS did next to fuck all while I was a member (we tried to co-ordinate a POS deployment through him and still ended up deploying somewhere that someone else said they had claimed).

Essentially its [now] a case of join ISS and look after yourself (and because of all this recent upset its not even as case of suddenly becoming blue to alot of people when you join ISS)

It's actually a great shame, its a shame that some people really don't understand what neutral means, which got ISS unfairly criticised when they did fight back, its a shame that some people thought that ISS' original recuitment policy (pay 25mil a month and youre in) was an afront to the  'members only club' some people think/want 0.0 space to be and its a shame that ISS reacted in they way they did to these challenges and IMO made things worse

Its also a shame that they let people like Butter Dog and Lilan Khan join _and then_ post on the forums

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I'm bitter at ISS right now. They were supposed to be the guys who demonstrate that, yes, you really can have a functioning neutral population in 0.0. You don't have to play the "ally or die" game with the big idiots that keeps 0.0 the exclusive boys' treehouse that it is.

The "members only club" mentality is one of the things that makes me really, really loathe most of the 0.0 powers.

On the other hand, they're being led by a guy named Butter Dog. If you know what that actually refers to... yeah...

Well, I guess stick me in the "Neutrals might as well be reds" catagory. I don't like them, I don't trust them, and they could be spying for actual enemies. I kill any I can find in the North. I'll kill any I find in low sec. Yaaaarrrrr.

I am part of the North, in the Rule of Three alliance. I don't recommend sight seeing in these parts ;)

Dont take this the wrong way but.......

Who?

(do you mean Triumvirate? and if so aren't you down to two now with Exanimo leaving?)

None taken.

We own a big chunk of the new Kali lands, and now have a station up in our main base of operations. We have cap ships and itchy trigger fingers (enjoyed my first POS tower bash).

Basically, we are blue to D2, Razor, MM and we all will come together to smack down any real invaders. Other than that, everyone kinda just defends their own space.

ooohhh, welcome to eve. I have promice my self that I will not post when drunk (which I am ). So I will only say Welcome, Welcome to EVE.

Oh, I see, you're in the north blob  :roll:

Sorry, someone had to do it  :-P

I can't complain. While the South tears itself apart we are up North making money and building a serious armada. ;)

I wish I understood any of that.

I wanna play EVE.

The name Butter Dog is taken.  /sadf

I saw Butter Dog at the Akora-Reisen gate in his pod over the weekend. Now I wish I would have taken a shot at him  :-D

Butter Dog's been hanging out in Akora a lot. He's been a member of WR3CK (The Unassociated alliance (www.eve-una.com) for a whole day.

Its probably worth mentioning that Butter pretty regularly drops in and out of ISSN (he gets bored and goes off to pirate in his dead miners society corp) - this was how he (so often) fought the forum wars on ISS' behalf without actually breaking their charter by speaking as an ISS official

Will be interesting to see if he ever joins ISSN again  :-D

Rumor has it that D2 wardecced ISS this morning.

Now it begins.

It's official, d2 made an annoucement on the forums :)

Awesome.  A scenario like this is why I voted for Ross Perot.

Rumor has it that RAGOON is mobilizing against ISS as well.

F13 should wardec em too...

My first introduction to ISS was their IPO post on the forums. It seemed to me to be a really good idea and I was interested in investing. Thankfully I didn't have enough spare cash lying around as investing in my own ideas turns the best profit for now. I guess getting to know the background of something before investing is probably a good idea, as from what I can tell I would have seen this a mile away and not invested if I had bothered to check.

Note I am a low level grunt in IAC who joined it a week before the war started, so I only know what I read on eve-o.  I was a DD escort at one of the ZX gates this morning, never saw a hostile for the time I was on station.

RA(though i only saw the swarm at the gate I was at)GOON helped take down the POS's in KDF today, and F4 afterwards. F4 isn't quite finished (and apperentrly a founding member of ISSN offlined half of them! I now belive the guilding hand social club is behind the entire thing). D2 is taking the station(s?) up north. ISS will be left with no public stations.

LV/Fix etc havn't made any apperence, and the remaining POS's go down in next 2 days.

I expect the Count to take the money and run. ISS is dead as it is currently. Unless BoB interveans to stop AAA/Goons getting one of the ISS stations as spoils (I have NO idea who will be getting what, if any) ISS will be gone from the south with thier public stations in 5 days or so. The LV stations they "manage" might stay around though, but the direct supply line will be cut.

ZX had 300+ people in it. 25 ISS and the rest the forces of the....ehh...need a name for this militry alliance. RA-AAA-IAC-GOON? Note that D2 is seemingly conducting an unreleated war, though they had someone in the ZX system for some reason. Some of the IAC-temp-allied pirate corps (Shroad?) went up north to attack ISS and ended up shooting D2 instead. Nevertheless, D2 took the right time to attack ISS now that the Merc's have been shown up not willing to stand up to a full on Allience.

The Count should have made peace with IAC before he started taking POS's. IAC was the agresser IMO, but was only going to take an ISS station if the oppotuiny prestend itself. The count calling in LV/Fix gave AAA and RAGOON the freedom to interveane and presentend the oppotuinity. If he'd payed some Danegold to buy off Tryaxxx and Co, he'd still have his company.

OK, ity all sounds really fun and impressiv, but can someone explain it again slowly in short words.  All I can get is: ISS try an IPO and everyone dogpiles...  I have a feeling there is a bit in the middle.

And now the Goons, of all people, have exposed someone in ISS willing to offline POSes in two ISS outpost systems for money.

A short summary for Endie: 

1.  ISS has a lot of investors give money to help set up multiple neutral outposts in 0.0 space.  ISS profits on this by charging docking fees. 
2.  This goes mostly well for a while with a few hiccups.
3.  There's a war between IAC and MC (plus FIX and others I think), and ISS lets MC and others use their 'neutral' outposts as staging areas to attack IAC, who I think had an outpost in the system next door.  IAC says that screw you guys, ISS says they stopped letting MC do this as soon as they realized what was going on, IAC says we don't care.  Other corps join in against ISS for various reasons that I'm not really clear on.  Once ISS is wardecced by D2, a major power, most people expect ISS to be finished off in short order. 

D2 decced two days ago, so... I dunno.  Read the offical eve forums Corps and Alliances for the latest. 

Apparently all the ISS POS in the 2 northern outpost systems (EC-P8R and the one Borealis is on P-2TTL I think its called) are in reinforced mode as of last night (D2 took their Titan for a spin)

I have to say that unless D2 go south this is a pretty cowardly move by them (although a tactically sound one) because they know that ISS is currently tied up with IAC (the chances that ISS will send anything up to defend the north is slim to none I think) and so they can pretty much walk in and take both outposts without any trouble

and I cant see D2 going south as that would take them into range of BOB

Its also worth pointing out that prior to this ISS were blue to D2 (the southern ACSN intel incident that recently resulted in D2 setting ISS to negative was resolved) and since its not known what the catalyst for this war is (so in the absence of info you kinda have to think that ISS didnt intentionally do anything wrong) this doesn't exactly look good for D2 in its treatment of its 'friends'

D2 are only cowards if this is the beginning of the end of the war. I strongly suspect, however, that it's merely the end of the beginning.

My guess at who's next: Lokta Volterra. Then, if there's still no response from the real target, FIX. And so on.

Thanks for that: much appreciated.  Damn, but this acronym-war thing makes it all obtuse, though.  Fun to read about once a first pass at decryption is complete.

I took a look at the rmt ISK prices when the Bob/ASCN thing kicked off a while ago.  I checked again this week and the price of ISK seems to have risen by about 20-25%.  Is this how these corps really support their losses in dreads and stuff?  Or is that pretty rare?

When F13corp was in -V-, timecodes seemed to be the expected way for -V- players to make isk, since they never gave us a breathing moment to rat/mine/anything-but-pvp. (Which, not coincidentally, led to far lower peak headcount than usual for us.)

I couldn't hack that. What is F13Corp doing these days? Just whatever?

I think most of us are competing with each other in the ship building market around Akora  :-D

Should have my first Raven up for sale by the end of the day, if anyone is in need. I probably should have kept track of what I paid for all the mins, huh? I R N00B.

We have a starbase of our own running in low-security space. It's a little research station and manufactures some basic tech2 ingredients, which we use to pay for the cost of buying fuel to supplement the whims of our ice miners.

Other than that, nothing amazingly cohesive. We have some people diving into nearby 0.0 for ratting, we have some local PVPers (pirate and otherwise), we have a few mission runners, and of course, we have our manufacturing base.

We have some stuff that may come to pass in the next few months that would involve yet another foray into 0.0 space, this time as a renter corp, but who knows where that'll go given the recent wars.

Some F13ers are being rather industrious.  Not me.  Slacking a lot, but when I come online I am mining ice.  Sometimes I even sell off the refined materials!  My idea of being a refinery mercenary isn't working out; no one has asked me to refine anything for them in months.

If you have perfect refining (7+ sec, refeff V, scrap processing/ore processing I), you should be able to make a load of money refining NPC-bought (or market-bought) components for pyerite right now, as Jita prices are spiking above 9.25 isk per unit. I believe the NPC perfect-refining price is around 9.

I had heard this as well. As I've gotten into production recently I've been following closely the price of minerals and been...pained by the spike of pyerite. I had heard you can get pyerite for 9.01 a unit from NPC melting down, but I don't know what items it is. I have the skills necessary to get a perfect melt although I do not have the faction.

Any ideas what items it is that get you to 9.01 pyerite? It may be worth it for me to grind up that faction.

For those who missed it D2 captured Cassini somewhen Sunday night/Monday morning I think (also depends on your timezone)

ISS have sent a message to shareholders (via the corp vote mechanism) saying that there are no plans to retake the station and an announcement will be made regarding the future of Cassini shares shortly

I can see the share price of all other ISS outposts crashing now (well Borealis should already have crashed since that going down next) and ISS never being taken seriously over an IPO again (regardless of if it involves an outpost or not as ISS have shown they can't back up what they claim in their business plans)

In related news Eve Mutual Fund have issues a vote to shareholders about the ISS situation (I'm not really sure that the upshot of that vote is since I'm too lazy to look)

Most of the following is stolen from posts on the Eve forums this morning....

ISS Cassini and ISS Marginis have both been taken.  No matter how the war ends I doubt ISS would touch the outpost formally known as Cassini with a 10 foot pole.

The outpost in P-2TTL is still named ISS Borealis, but ISS has lost sovereignty.  Status unclear, but if it’s not gone yet it soon will be.

ISS still keeps sovereignty in ZXIC-7 and F4R2-Q (both next to KDF-GY) but with KDF lost I doubt they will survive for long if the barbarians feel inclined to take them.  To the best of my knowledge, the D2 horde has not backed off of their official position of “wiping ISS off the map” so expect them to go soon.

The 4 ISS outpost station stocks have been de-listed from the Eve Galactic Stock Exchange.

At least two attempts at treason have occured within ISS by directors offering to sell Vent passwords, stations, etc.  I have heard reports of corp hangers being looted.

The security rating or faction is the stickler.  Not being able to run L2 missions is the cockblock.  So I have -5% on everything.  Maybe I should switch to regular mining but I feel (no research on this) ice is still the way to go if I were to cook my own minerals.  Clathrate prices have doubled since last I looked, for example, so I might be well served to open more 1/10-market buy orders for that and see what I can fish up.

Ok that does it.  I keep readin psitive comments about EVE around these boards but after reading this thread I've got to try it out.  Gonna get the trial

Looks like Privateer meets Wall Street.

I come in peace! Pew pew pew! 

/Please pardon my threadjack.

That's a pretty accurate description.  :-)

Heh. One of us.

Update (for those that care)

ISS managed to get their _all_ ISS outpost shares (and possibly the ISSO shares too - I need to check) delisted from the Eve Galactic Stock Exchange (EGSEX) until an announcement is made regarding the future of the shares from the captured outposts (given that it will be a long time, if ever, before ISS are in a position to take them back)

This has met with mixed reviews from the stock market crowd some arguing that the shares should be left open (and allowed to crash) while others stating that this is fine and allows ISS time to come up with something to save/preserve the share price.

ISS have announced a shareholder meeting somewhen over the weekend (dont have the details on my I'm afraid) in a chat channel to discuss the issue (so if ISS have already made their minds up they aren't telling yet - this is probably a reaction to recent accusations that ISS dont listen to/care about the shareholders)

On a personal note the thing that really gets my goat is that ISS is now trying to get its displaced northern members to relocate down south and help the defence down there

As a former ISS member I can say that ISS has always treated the north with significantly less interest than the south (and treated EC/Cassini with contempt - for example in my 6 months in ISS I only saw their Navy deployed to pacify Cassini once with maybe 1 or 2 shoty deployments to Borealis and the remaining time down south) and since ISS made no attempt to defend the north (regardless of the fact that they probably weren't in a position too given the southern war) what they are now experiencing is pissed off northern member corps either leaving ISS or relocating to empire and waiting to see what happens.

Amusingly those 'opinions' of the north are now being explained away as 'jokes' when northern corps bring them up as reasons for not joining the fight down south.

I think the worst part is that ISS managment are 'promoting' Tenerifis as a suitable place for the ex-northern corps to live, while this is undoubtedly the safest location ISS have atm the thing with this is that living their comes with a very very very expensive rent overhead (so much so that its not practical/possible for smaller corps to live there - I think it was something like 15mil per member per week with a minimum payment of 300mil a week) and the current residents have already complained of overcrowding (corps get a number of private belts depending on the size of their corp). In addition to the rent payment all refining must be done in the LV-owned/ISS managed outpost(s) so that LV get the refining tax.

While I have no desire to see the end of ISS their current situation is the result of their bad handling of alot of issues

I'm interested, for sure.  This stuff is positively Byzantine.  Very late Byzantine.  Like 1452.

Edit:  Would anyone (MahrinSkrel is a name that springs to mind, and 5150's post was pretty clear there, but basically anyone who could be bothered) be persuadable to write up a quick "Eve Politics in a nutshell" post?  Something at the level of "See Jack.  See Jack find himself KOS to BoB.  See Jack run."  It all sounds hugely complex and interesting but I can't pretend I really grok it.

If a primer like that already exists then that wuold be cool too.  Just something that explains enough to get what the Eve-O forums are really saying...

The last year of 0.0 politics and warfare is nicely summarized in this Eve Tribune article (http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=2_1&page=39). Generally, Eve Tribune is good for following the most important 0.0 drama without having to read through all the Eve-O threads. There's a new issue out every week (every Monday, it seems).

edit: Fixed the link

And make sure you check out the stickied territory map in the Allies&Corps forum.  It's probably linked in our sticky as well.  Generally, size = power. 

Apparently ISS have lost another outpost (think the system is ZX something-or-other) and IAC allowed a known pirate organisation to occupy it

It will be interesting to see the effect this has on IAC's reputation as well as the effect on traffic and trade.

The word is that ISS is abandoning its remaining public outposts and going to live 100% in LV space.

As a result of this expect ISS to get alot more aggressive towards their enemies and those of LV (yes boys and girls they arent neutral anymore)

I've not got any further details on the abandoned outposts so I dont know if they've arranged to give them to someone or just not to defend them against future attack.

Like LV isn't the next alliance on the RAGoon/IAC/TCF/CA(/GHSC) hitlist anyway. :-D