f13.net

Hello, I'm here to talk about VCOMs and the role they play and will continue to do so in the future of MMO gaming.  The Virtual Currency Online Market (VCOM) which at the moment is a multi-million dollar industry.  Companies such as www.IGE.com and www.guy4game.com profit from farming the in-game currency and then turning around and selling that in-game currency for a real-life dollar amount.  We're talking people spending hundred's and thousands of dollars for virtual currency in a Massive Multiplayer Online Game.  MMOG's are the next huge thing for the net, and it's happening under everyone's noses.  The most influential ideas that moved technology into what it is today started from:  Computers -- Microsoft -- Internet -- Google -- MMO's (Massive Multiplayer Online Games).  MMO's are the next big thing and there is something so evil coming from it that it could terrorize any body's life if they get sucked into the Virtual Currency Online Market.  One of the largest and most influential MMO company in the world is NCSOFT, which is most at fault in the VCOM (Virtual Currency Online Market).  This company thrives on VCOM companies such as IGE.com and guy4game.com to buy their Virtual Currency, from what the industry calls farmers (people paid very small wages in 2nd-3rd world countries (#1 is China) to collect in game currency for hours upon hours of gameplay).  NCSOFT's EULA, which is an agreement all customers must agree to before creating an online account, is not followed by these VCOM companies.  They use any means necessary to make in-game currency and then sell it to people that are willing to buy.  The problem with this it there is absolutely no stopping these VCOM companies because NCSOFT and the like, will loose 40-50% of their customer player base if they were to ban all the account buying or selling the in-game currency.  This is a problem that grew worse and worse over time.  People have spent their entire income at times to buy in-game currency, ruining their real lives, to make their gaming life more enjoyable.  It's an addiction, it's a disease, and NCSOFT is the largest source of allowing this plague to MMO's continue.

If nothing is done to bring NCSOFT to the media.  Then the world of buying virtual goods with real-life money will become a norm and a reality for many.  These aren't just games anymore when this happens.  It's a business with no support and endless financial opportunities for VCOM companies.  It will ruin Online Games in the end if nothing is said and done. 

Help make NCSOFT an example for what they have done, and what they continue to do rigorously to it's customers and to the online gaming era which is just now starting to steam roll into a huge multi-billion dollar industry.

Below is the site that our community goes to for discussing the issue.  You can find a lot of material here to write any story on the matter.  Again, welcome to the next huge era of technology.  MMO's and the VCOM's that are ruining them.

http://www.l2guru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33758
 
Recently, a parent company of Blizzard Entertainment that produced the largest most successful MMO of all-time "World of Wacraft",  announced "All Blizzard franchises will become MMOGs." ( http://www.cesspit.net/drupal/node/1386)
 
I wonder why.  Is it they see the financial fortune that can be made from VCOM's?  Or is it that they love online games, like we do.
 
***VCOM's will destroy every MMO any company tries to create.  It already has.  It will continue to happen till they are noticed and brought down.***

Thank you

TO THE STREETS!

I'd recommend check through that thing for errors.  Cause, uh, I found a bunch of 'em.

Also:  There's a Lineage 2 North American Community?

(But El Gallo's post is more clever than mine.)

Sounds like an argument for instancing.

First off, you're playing fucking Lineage 2. The very fact that you can stomach the boring ass gameplay long enough to get to a raid boss labels you as someone with larger problems than gold farmers. OCD is a terrible thing.

Secondly, you're playing Lineage 2. You can't polish a turd that brown.

Thirdly, MMOG's will never be "the next big thing" until they stop relying on repetitive, grinding gameplay like Lineage 2. Normal, rational, sane fucking people do not play games like those adherents of L2.

Finally, proofread. If you want someone like CNN to take you seriously, or really, anyone with a fucking brain, get someone who can write, spellcheck and proofread grammar before you scrawl your unibomber manifesto on fecal-matter covered walls.

O RLY?

That people have spent their entire income on buying virtual currency is hardly the problem.

Vote with your pocketbooks.

Selling Lineage 2 gold, pm me for details.

Indeed.  What gets more interest, a poorly-written manifesto (that might just be an ad for IGE), or NCSoft firing its own service staff?

BEWARE!  THIS IS A SCAM!  Lineage 2 doesn't have gold, Arthur!  Sheesh.

Then what the fuck is it doing here? I don't see us on the list.

Attention:  The following may cause increased flamming.  Please only use flame throwers only.

1.  We're hardcore in gaming, you have to be in order to stick with this fucked up game this long since closed beta.

2.  I feel that it better prepared myself for future MMO's to come.  Because if you can make it in Lineage 2 and last, then you can make it in any MMO.

3.  We don't pussy out and jump into WoW or some other bullshit fairy happy game like so many others have.  Hence why we're fighting to keep what we've got.  It's like loosing an investment you've made with 1000's upon 1000's of play time, gone.

4.  The grammar sucked indeed, it wasn't to be directly copied for other sites to use.  It's to be re-written with some editorial skills and presented to the public accordingly.

5.  We're gamers just like you, (comment that made peoples hemorrhoids flare up.. deleted).

(Comment deleted because the right to speak doesn't exist on this forum)
Who gives a fuck who hit 60 and raided this and that in WoW or the equiv.  Come to Lineage 2 and you'll see where the fucked up crazy son's of emo bitches are.  Hardcore baby.

*Smores out and ready for the fire

OMG (http://alerttheinternet.ytmnd.com/)

EDIT PS:  This has to be a troll pulling our legs.  Doesn't it?

Doesn't sound to me like you play games because you enjoy them, do you?

If i didn't enjoy it, why would i waste my time showing the article and topic on here? 

I  :heart: Spaceballs.  Wtb part 2.

I chose my sig all those months ago, apparently at random.  Little did anyone know it would eventually come to apply specifically to you, today.

Huh?  Are talking about post apocalypse gaming or something?  Is this something I should be training for?


You do realize that, more than likely, no one outside your little group cares who you are and what you have accomplished in some game, right?  You are not going to be 12 forever.

Those five points are some pretty funny stuff.

Do you know heavy hitters?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*gasp*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Wow, I have never seen some one try and stroke their epeen so hard in my life. Who the hell cares if your "well knoiwn in the MMO world in the future". Specially from L2. If you really crave MMO attention this badly, create an uber guild, and do some thing like IO did, hold a server hostage. Or get a bunch of world firsts in raiding like DnT. Honestly, no one gives a flying fuck about who does what in L2, and the majority of people dont care who did what where and whenever.

Fighting goldfarmers is admerable, but your answers make you out to be a tool of the highest caliber.

To show how "hardcore" you are playing a broken game. Reading your 5 points it sounds like you're married to Lineage 2, and even if the marriage isn't working out all that great, you're gonna stick with it even if there's a lot of better stuff out there.

Odd how well things work out eh =)

Anyway, im just here to post the issue.  If no one cares, then no one cares.  We feel that these companies will do everything they can to get into MMO's and basically ruin/flood the market with the inflation they bring and many other issues.

Everyone here loves mmo's right.  Cool.  All i want is for people to be educated on the matter that, "When your MMO comes out, and you've been dying to play it, VCOMs will ruin it in the end".  "Unless people are educated in the matter and everyone helps to prevent VCOMs from operating within your gaming world before they control your market, the way you play, the time's you play, and the people you play with."

If you haven't seen what we've seen, then I envy you.

No, you're not. Better trained gamers wouldn't spend their time posting drivel such as this to a community that is only going to ridicule it. And if you are going to link to second-hand news stories, you ought to find out the source of those stories before embarrassing yourself by posting at the source. Now piss off back to your care-bear grind-fest and don't bother us again.

Classic.  I was even drinking water as I read this.

Yes i sounded like a complete Ass, I admit.  But i'll leave it up there.  Cause I "care".

You can ridicule it all you want, all the more Love to you =)

~38 la   @_@    keke

It's PREPARED, not prepaired, LOSING, not loosing, ridicule, not redicule.

Stop being retarded.

I thought botting was an issue with DAOC, now it has moved to NC SOFT.  Sounds like a MAD plan.

Lineage II is such a grind-fest, he hasn't had time to attend school, figure out how to copy and paste or press "Spell Check" on this forum. However, he does have an advanced degree in Chinese smileys. ^_^

Morph beat me to my gut-instinct reply.. but let me just add:

The combination of Newspapers citing F13.net on the NcSoft story (when F13 itself said the info was from a dev list) and this nutjob citing Hrose, this community has given me a lot of giggles this week. And it's only Tuesday.

|-|4rdc0r3, b4-b!

Grammar checked SIR!  Thank you for your editorial expertise.  Keep checking my words as I'm sure you have the time to =)

wouldn't it make more sense to ask the admins of this site first before posting?  that way whatever you wanted to say as an essay would get a better reception

also, wouldn't it make more sense to spend time arguing on the MSNBC or AOL or IGN boards than here?  just more eyeballs

also, I'm pretty sure no one in f13 plays Lineage 2.  Because they're in f13.  Because it's Lineage 2.

And that's my happy face for the day!

(http://www.lunchboxing.com/images/front/davidcross.jpg)

That pretty much made my morning.

Anyway.. let's boil down the Giant Brick o' Words (spellcheck FTW, by the way): "Gold farmers, left unchecked, can ruin games not specifically built to support RMT.".

Sure, fine, I don't disagree with that assertion. (Some people might. (http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/711/711593p1.html)) You even provide an example. I think I've read, somewhere, a year or so ago, about how bad 'adena farming' was in L2.

The "RMT is bad" issue is :dead_horse:

Further, I think a Man with a Chart listed NA/EU L2 numbers somewhere around.. uh.. 90k. So we're not exactly talking about the Watts Riots here.

You can keep your fucked up crazy son's of emo bitches to yourself, thanks.  I've known enough to realize I don't particularly like being around them.

Also... who are you?

Finding these took me five seconds, which seems to be about how long it took you to write the latest in the grand tradition of internet petitions.

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=2155.0
http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=6803.0

But really thanks for warning us about how IGE is bad for gamers, what would we do without the truly hardcore L2 MMO-bootcamp vets battling to keep one of the grindiest shittiest games ever made alive by continuing to pay for it.  All to prepare for the 41st MOOllenium, in the grim darkness of the future there is only war and only the hardcore will prevail at collecting teh shiney!@!!



Jackass...

I wouldn't play Lineage 2 if it made my dick bigger.

• Shiznitz wins.
• Should I frontpage this?

That just about covers it.

Hell yes!  If only to warn all of us who were unaware that we should be in training!  And here I was floating from game to game like some rogue, roustabout, bounder, or cad and merely enjoying myself.  Had I known that what I needed was to buckle down, ignore the grind, and breath long and hard the Korean crazy I would have done so.

This thread can save a great many wasted hours, and the five points should be forever enshrined in the sacred walls of the site.

If it was to be rewritten then why the fuck did you post it?

Hey I'm just the messenger, wanna throw me off a roof go right ahead.  Wanna help?  Quit fucking ebaying in MMOs.

Thank you <3

Is it wrong to wonder where these people come from? They just come out of the woodwork, fingers in their ears, going LALALALALLALA and missing the point entirely. And I don't mean any specific point - I mean any point at all. They live in their tiny vacuum and they think we should feel lucky - NAY - privelaged to be included in their little dreamland if even for a moment.

Maybe they're lucky, I sorta wish I could game like that.

But then I'd be retarded.

Lose, Lose I suppose.

Because the more people aware of the issues that are here and upcoming, the better prepared the mmo communities will be to help prevent their game from being ruined.  That's my point.

If you don't like the article, then just delete it and trash it.  No one's forcing you into accepting our views and ideas.  Read it, flame it, fuck it, whatever ^^ V

THIS is what happens when we get called a fansite.

I'm going to guess you didn't lurk-and-look for long on these forums.

This thread is very entertaining.  Needs more Feet, though.

A few things.

First, as mentioned above, if you want to be taken seriously by the journalism community, be it paper, blog or television - have someone proof read your items for spelling, grammar, punctuation and reading level.  I know you have been busy weilding your digital firebrand against Mammon, but if you look around you can find free writing correction programs.

Second, thank you.  Because by posting here you imply that we at the F13 community have some insight, dare I say sway, over the uber-corps and their minions that control and create MMO's.  Nice attempt to come here and stir the pot to draw attention to your cause. 

Third, Lineage 2?  Was Walmart sold out of everything else when you went to spend all your lawn mowin' profits?



P.S. - Fuck you.

agreed.



The reason you are getting flamed is that-

a) F13 is predominately a gaming site. Did you think the issues involving RMT and IGE werent known to this community?

b) You are, according to your post, sending this out to professional journalistic websites and news agencies yet the entire thing comes across as if written by a stoned monkey due to its atrocious spelling and grammar.

c) You are playing Lineage 2.

Oh.. I stirred up something?  Interesting.  Let's see if it can be positive in any way down the line when I see you guys in some mmo we all jump into.  

For who i am.

Lineage 2
Bartz server
Diatress 77 Dreadnought

Come say hi =)

More often than not I suspect it's some kid who managed to become a "big name" on some board for their respective game.  Since they are soo big and important in their retard community, it leads them to think that means EVERYONE should listen to them.   They are the "Heavy Hitters" the "Hardcore" the "Elite,"  after all.  So a quick google of their favorite game and 'news' or 'discussion' as an added keyword nets them a few sites to troll, including this one.  

Oh, that was rhetorical, wasn't it.

Well, then in the spirit of the thread, I wonder how much I could get for my collector's edition account with a few 'high-demand' 60s. Hmm. /ponder.

The reason she is being flamed is that the F13 community only has one or two knobtards and has a very high average intelligence, in a complete and stark contrast of most every other MOG community.

lol =)  That's fine.

No, it's not fine. See, that's your fucking problem. It's not fine AT ALL. You come in here all high and mighty because you think you've written this amazing piece of gaming journalism when you really haven't. On top of that, you play Lineage 2. It deflates any sort of possible argument or interesting insight you might have had because it pins you as a gamer who's willing to put up with the worst of shit and pay for it no less. People like you give gamers a bad name.

Go the fuck away.

Heh, sorry buddy =)  I came here posting this because i thought f13 was a well known gaming community for one.  Posting here, I thought to myself, hey I've sent out enough letters to other gaming companies and sites etc..  Why not shoot it here to.  Being bashed, flamed, thrown, fucked, etc etc is all fine to me I'm used to it.   Remember I'm from Lineage 2 ^^  So yea as long as one or two people understand where we're coming from.  Then i could care less about what you people think of me.  I came here to post out of my own time and free will.  I don't see many other's trying to "stir" up what the VCOM industry is doing.  If I'm the one to post about it and be flamed to hell and back, then so be it =)  

One benefit of this thread is that I now have an example to use in this weeks Grammar Rhetoric and Style class discussion.

See.. Hey there's someone that's some-what optimistic.  You go bash it and you bash it well my friend!

GODFUCKINGDAMNYOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I work SO hard to not be spoiled, and then this fucking idiot waltzes in a fucks everthing up. Probably a good thing I don't have banning privileges.


For those of you who want it to go away, remember that it plays Lineage 2 FOR FUN. Scorn and abuse are like mother's milk.

Quit being asshurt. :evil:

Please to eat a flaming bag of syphilitic cocks, Messiah Catass (http://www.gameangst.com/Games/p2_articleid/40).

Wait what! what i say! oh.. it wasn't me.  *points to Schild

Sorry i didn't bother to read your entire post.  Now that I my coffee.. Let's see..

Hah.  Touche smashing good buddy.

It's people like you, who do nothing, say nothing, take it in the ass, and keep moving.  That gives gamers a bad name.  ^_-

There are numerous examples of discourse on this board about RMT.  Many of them include extremely intellegant people, some with post graduate degrees and various credentials. 

Meta tip- the ones with red names ARE ALREADY in the industry.  We do have a voice, we do have discourse, and we go round and round about it constantly.  And uhhh, keke la.

You found out about this website because of my doing nothing.

You're fucking clownshoes.

What if their name's in blue? ^^  

I'm sure people have traveled near and far in discussions on this topic.  What I do best is cause attention to it.  Whether by pissing off, or by being humble.  Here it's unclear as to which method I chose. Probably the, "quit being gay/ass/fucking idiot/my-pussy-hurts" approach.  But meh.. I spoke, people responded, people read it and more will hopefully.  Some will care, some will fuck it, but whatever happens 3-5 years from now.  I did my part in one shape or form, to bring this issue to the public.  You guys think you can do better, by all means light em up.

I think i have a crush on you.  :heart:

We've already done better and continue doing better by simply existing. The problem is, you didn't see that because you didn't do any research before peddling your tired shit (Oddly, I think this is the first time I've gotten to say that twice in a single month).

Sorry for not doing more research into your beloved forum, but I'm done now =) :heartbreak:

Uhhh, I thought I, along with a few others (who did not sputter obsceneties) pointed out- awww fuck it.  Schild, is this dreck a preview of things to come as f13 gets bigger and better?  I mean, I DO live life a quarter mile at a time, but this is too much.


Please do not make me turn in my license plates for ones that say "STRATICS" or "Q23." please.

Hi, I'm going to rip you a new asshole because ranting = fun!

Aaand I stopped right there.

MMOs are not the future.

The Semantic Web is the future. AJAX is the future. URIs are the future, and you don't even know what that acronym stands for, do you? Read a book! Or go read Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_resource_identifier), which is also the future. The future _that exists today_.

MMOs are a tiny, fractional drop in a tiny, fractional bucket called "online games". They're not even the major kind of online games! There are at least as many middle-aged women playing Bridge online as there are sad, pathetic, masochistic gamers playing Lineage II. AND YOU CAN'T PLONK DOWN $5 AND DRAW THE ACE OF SPADES IN ONLINE BRIDGE.

In conclusion, given the actual destiny of the Internet your world is tiny and remote and your complaints trivial and insignificant. You want to write about comment-hoarding product-spamming link-impression-abusing blogbots, then you might have something.

--GF

I'm sorry you were flammed.  We don't mean to flam excessively, it's just part of our flamming nature.  We flam, therefore we are.

You are ruining things by pointing out that the ARPA net predates Microsoft.  Or even MicroSoft.  Let's keep away from the facts, people!

Sure do have a lot of people viewing this topic.

I say it's time for another 100 page thread!

Ty <3

If you honestly think I'm going to put more detail into the line of events starting from the "Transistor"..  You're out of your fucking mind.  It's short, basic, and an over-all look at popular influential ideas that have come.  It's just a few.  Do i give a shit about Web Application Coding?  No sir, i'm talking about Online MMO's and what part they will play in the gaming industry.

Sorry but MMO's are the future in gaming.  You can quote me on that 5 years from now.  I'll be more than happy to have some tea and crumpits and discuss how things have developed!

Were any of us to bother with that conversation 5 years from now, you'd still be 9 years behind.

See, that's what they're trying to tell you.

He's pushing my quote on MMO's are the next big thing for the net.  He's bitching about Web Development techniques.  Apples and Oranges.  He can say that topic will be huge, which im sure it will be .Net applications have created big business for a lot of startup companies.  All I'm saying is Online Gaming is the future for gaming in general and will be a huge part of what's popular on the net (myspace, google, etc. etc.). Two completely different topics there.

(http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/hello.gif)

Your momma is the future in gaming.

 :mrgreen:

Supposing that MMO's are the future in gaming, what makes you think MMO's like Lineage 2 will be representative of those MMO's?  It's looking more like MMO's like WoW, that you seem to like to insult, that are more likely to be the "future in gaming".  

Personally, I'm not really convinced that this will be the case.  You're talking about games that a lot of people have absolutely NO interest in.  Glazius is right, there's more interest in online hearts than Lineage 2, because even my MOM will play hearts online.

Actually, I'm pretty sure most were like me and couldn't make it through the entire article. That much concentrated stupidity is hard to take without copious amounts of alcohol.

You want to know what you can do about it? Quit playing Lineage 2. Quit paying for shitty, grindy games that make you think you are HARDCORE!1! by causing everything interesting the game to be locked behind the gates of repetitive bunny-smashing for months on end. RMT is so popular because most MMOG's could be finished in hours if it weren't for all the leveling, camping and grinding required to do them.

Or you could just try reading before posting your spew.

OP- want to buy a almost maxxed f13 account for $$$?  PM me!

Thing is you are into a game where the grind is so intolerable (not only for levels, but money) that people are forced to bot/ buy cash and/or levelling services from third parties just to "enjoy" the game.  I played L2 for a couple months after it was released, and bought money JUST so I could enjoy the few hours a week I had with the game.  The publisher has done very little to address the issue (ban ISPs from Asia or track botting better would be a good start, off the top of my head).  As said elsewhere, vote with your dollar.  Otherwise last laugh is on you anyhow (you are doing more damage by staying subscribed then IGE could ever do).

In conlusion: For 20 USD I will kick you in the nuts.  Repeatedly.


Ninja edit.  And no one is really talking about your revelations either.  Natch.

No, actually I think the best for everyone is if it kept playing Lineage 2.

/Agree  

I'm not saying Lineage 2 is the greatest MMO out there.  I'll say imo, that it's the hardest one to grind/gear/build-up in.  But, what I'm doing is not bringing Lineage 2 more players.  I'm trying to point out that every single MMO to come will have these issues till someone can stand up taller than I can and help bring the issue to the public.  Fuck lineage 2 sure, but i love the game, i hate the company, i hate the support, i hate the corruption with farmers and Vcoms.  But I love MMO's in general for what they stand for.  To see them all go through what Lineage 2 and other's have, just isn't right.  So hence why I've come here and posted.  So I made my peace.

I didn't read the vomit.  Is he mad because people could buy stuff better than his "hardcore" toon has?

I'd like 'em to stay subbed to Lineage 2 so that NCSoft gets more money to develop fun freebie online games like Exteel and Dungeon Runners.

Enjoy your hardcore, I'll be using the $15/month you pay to fund my entertainment.

These issues are ones that the company cannot solve.  If selling gold in game is profitable for people, it will get done.  If it isn't, then it won't.

Ironically, it's BECAUSE your game is so "HARDCORE!!!1!1!" that it is showing this problem so much.  As soon as paying real money will allow players to bypass parts of an online game they don't enjoy, an industry will spring up to supply this need.  Economics trumps your little petition every time.

There are two ways your MMO can become a profitable market for gold farmers:

1. It's insanely popular so there's at least some market for gold purchases at all times (see WoW)
2. It's got a huge grind/time investment for improvement, so you have people willing to pay real cash to speed up this process.


Good luck with your mission to overturn reality.

If I lose.. I lose.  Point, I shouted, and I'll keep trying else where.  Maybe you guys aren't gamers as much as I thought.  Sorry for the tension.  Later =)

Shouting is only useful if there's something that can be done.  What do you propose as a solution, hm?

That's funny... The Asian 'model of the future', since you like Eastern-style games so much, seems to lean more heavily towards RMT. See, for example, Exteel, where the company takes the place of the farmer. Does this make it better? Worse? Why? Are you against farming or RMT in general? On what grounds?

If you're going to try to have a serious discussion, or at least try to pose as a pundit worthy of time and respect, at least bring up some serious points - not "farming bad, /sign plz, SAVE THE INTERNETS!!1!"


You just made baby Phoenix Wright cry.

I don't have one, because 1 answer or solution can't solve the problem.  It's not my goal to solve the issue.  It's to see if other's feel the same way I do about how bad things can get when these companies terrorize a gaming community.  Someone i'm sure has great ideas and has editorial power.  I just wanted to open some people eye's on the issue and see what I can do on my part to help with it.  It already has.  The more pressure put on Ncsoft as an example of a company that let things go to far, the more people can prevent it from happening in their gaming communities.  I came here thinking you all were into mmo gaming, and didn't want the same to happen to your community or to the next game you move to.  I came with a white flag =)  and water hose.

You're being paranoid again! Also, Stratics? Whu? How does that even get clumped in there?

Here's the problem: It isn't an issue for the vast majority of gamers out there.  They don't care, since it doesn't affect them in a negative way.  Maybe you "Hardcore"-types on games that are dumb enough to not have instanced raid/boss/dungeons are being adversely affected, but those MMO's that have figured out ways to allow anybody who can scrape together enough people to go on a raid/instance to do so without being blocked by farmers don't care at all.  

And why should they?

Newsflash, I AM into MMO gaming, and gold farmers have affected me absolutely zip. zero. not at all.  

Why?  Because I choose to play MMO's that aren't retarded like Lineage 2.

One other thing.  What does NCSoft have to do with this?  How are THEY responsible for Gold Farmers, aside from making a game where it is possible for them to flourish?  (And by your own admission, you LIKE that game)

I do feel the way you do, other than the being-insane part, which is why I don't play L2.  When I do play a MOG, it is usually one in which the general playerbase is able to grief and PK the farmers, and which has its own form of official realcash-for-gamecash system on top of that.  It even has the bonus of being fun.

Guys, guys you're doing it all wrong. Same thing happened with whats-his-name-writes-for-mpstrategy. You should just ignore them. Imagine the topic having 500 views and 0 replies. That'd seriously spook 'em :P

Also - who the fuck came up with VCOM? Sounds like a rooter brand or something.

And I live you with that memorable quote:

There's only three ways that farming can affect someone else in an MMO:

1. Noninstanced zones/raids. Most modern, player-friendly games have these. With a proper instancing implementation, the impact of farming is obviated.

2. Epeen. Most people around here don't care about being the first to get the full Ithilien's Ubah Armor Set of Pwnzorage; that's a tiny, TINY section of the community. Unless you're concerned about bizarre, hard-core goals like that, RMT doesn't affect your PVE grinding.

3. PVP. Yes, it can hurt here, primarily in large-scale wars between groups. It's the MMO equivalent of global thermonuclear war on your wallet. The only way to win is not to pay.

Game is ruined/not fun/inundated with gold farmers?  Quit, and stop giving away your money.

That's the only solution that works.  If you can't get your head around that, then we have nothing more to say to each other.  The fact that you've been willing for years now to take it up the ass from from Korean tedium merchants tells me that you don't get that lesson, so it's pointless to continue talking to you.  Good luck with your petition, douchebag.

I have absofuckinglutely no idea.  I honestly could not think of another community I really part take in currently, besides Something Awful.  And I am not going there!


edit.  Or I coulda said "CORP NEWS," but thats too many letters.  And it does not have the panache that F13 NET does.
edit 2.  This thread ruined my day, then made it better.  VOTED 5!

I mean, comeon! You got a sig out of this thread. And you're complaining! Bad Cheddar!

Poor Cheddar.  It makes me sad when you go all maudlin.  I call it your monthly.  It's sort of like my monthly but you don't have an excuse.  Still, you know how much we (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/heart.gif) you. 

(http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/hug.gif)

How the hell did this thread turn around and become about me???  Its about opening our eyes to VMOC!  Or whatever the hell the new acronym is.

So, in other words, you're just a mangina troll from Orlando who claims to be an information security engineer, but who cannot spell information, security or engineer?

Actually, the lack of logic, grammar, and coherent thought point fairly concretely to being an information security engineer.

ETA:  Oh, and to being from Florida.  The dangling wang of the US is the shame of our great nation.

Wow you found my profile <3  You get a cookie **

Orlando isn't so bad, lots of hot chicks, nice cars, shitty basketball team.

Don't be jealous of what I do for a living <3  What do you do?  Sit here and wait for me to reply with something else all day long?  Strong.

Hey Diatress, post your /played time, I have a bet with myself that this thread can't get any better.

Righs google fu is amazing.  I should join his e-Dojo!

Truly, Righ's googlefu is an amazing thing.

Dude if they showed /playtime in game, i'd fucking shoot myself after wasting that much of my life.  But if had to guess, 1500-1700 hours total in 2.5 years?  Hell if I know.

Did i win?  I get 1/2 whatever you're bettin son.

I usually don't bother with these new manifesto posts from people who don't bother to read the site prior to making an appearance, but just in case you are actually capable of learning something from this cluster fuck and are still reading.

Most people on this site are not concerned with how RMT affects our gaming, primarily b/c we understand the ramifications of it AND can take steps to minimize or eliminate it's affect on our gaming if it bothers us.  However, doing that requires a level of understanding of the genre and it's history that you obviously have yet to learn as you seem fixate on just one game: L2.

L2 is not the sum total of MMORPG's; it's not even a particualr big factor in the North American market.  If you continue to view all of gaming through your L2 tinted glasses, you will continue to miss the forest for the trees.  RMT is a deep subject and is not going away, nor should it.  If you want to be taken seriously, or at least not be immediately mocked and have your opinions ignored, then I suggest you improve your knowledge of the subject, tone down the "impending doom" rhetoric, and write something useful, or at least new.

This subject is probably older than you are.

Xilren

I think you would only waste the money on 20 packs of socks.

This is a red name.  Notice he is a developer.  Also notice he is formerly known as "Lum the Mad." 


Righ is truly an amazing creature.  Poor feet; he will always know who she goes out with!

Shh.

Wow, SWG Thread v2.0 plzkthx?

Seriously Diatress, No One Cares. At All. Why?

1) The article reads like a cross between a 5th grader's book report and Inuyasha fan fiction - in other words, I'd sooner wipe my ass with it than read it. Is English your primary language?

2) It's Lineage II. LINEAGE II !! Who gives a FUCK about L2? Hardly anyone here does, and it seems as if NCsoft does not either. I am not surprised.

3) You're complaining about problems that have been prevalent since BETA. As if that isn't bad enough, you've paid money each month to deal with those problems, and somehow think you're better off. Newsflash - A lot of people here were in the Lineage 2 beta, and even back then the game had problems with Asian farmers, and bots, and Adena farming pyramid schemes. Not only does this make your opinion certifiable useless, but it makes your entire stance laughable. Why would you, Just Now, try and bring this shit to light when the Entire Fucking Internet could have warned you before the game was even released?

This thread was good for a few laughs. Please, continue to come back for more pain. We polish our armor with your tears. Yeah I ripped the line from Paelos.

The one thing I remember about my time in Lineage 2 is that somebody posted a list of common English phrases translated into Chinese for use on the Lineage 2 servers in the US.  The scary thing is, I along with plenty of others, found the list useful.

I remember finally hitting 13 or so, and only having a spot or two to level.  I was a human, and yet some Dark Elves (which had a seperate starting area) were camping the mobs I needed to kill for my levelling purpose.  After a week of the same two litterally running the spawn I hit cancel and never looked back.  For some reason this post makes me want to play, though...

Freedom of speech.  I came, I spoke, I said what I wanted to.  Looked like an idiot/moron/ass/whatever I loved it.  Me needing more knowledge on the matter?  That's your opinion and I respect that.

Your right L2 isn't the sum of all mmorpgs, but the companies that ruin it are.  IGE, guy4fame, Gmhelper, etc..  IMO the issue of these companies doing what they do, well... We'll see what happens.  I hope you guys are right and it won't be a big issue in the next few MMO's to come.  But I'm betting on them looking at the profit margins in the virtual currency market, and see'ing there's a lot more money to be made if they make all games the way lineage 2 is currently running.  Shit look at Sony, they're developing a virtual money store you can buy in-game currency straight from their company's website ..  It's just the beginning for this issue.  Sorry to sound all "Armageddon".  But i'm out.  Later and keep the fire burning!

Ummm, it is a big issue.  We have acknowledged that, and followed how the industry is dealing with it.  You, by not voting with your wallet, are perpetuating the problem.  You do not have amendment rights here, nor even in America.  Claiming you do is ignorance on your part as to how the constitution works.  But I digress.

That doesn't exist on a private message board.  Thanks for playing.

Whoa whoa?! F13 is the government now?!

Awesome, as our first act, we're hereby nationalizing all MMO companies. All ya red names, you work for us now. I expect alpha CDs in my mailbox by Monday. Chop chop.

Can we just drag SWG out into the alley and shoot it also?

Thats the whole fucking point we are trying to get across to you! You haven't opened anyone's eyes here. This issue isnt new and has been discussed here in depth. Also you dont bring anything new to the table because you demonstrate a remarkable lack of understanding in the subject.

RMT isnt terrorizing gaming communities. Gaming companies are....by virtue of the shitastic spooge they continue to release 99% of the time. For example the game you play...Lineage 2. Once the games themselves are improved perhaps people will be more willing to look at other issues.

I am calling Homeland Security if some fucker mails me a copy of L2.

So wait a sec, is it WUA > Broughden > Diatress?   :-o

As the wheel turns.  I think the new slogan should be "F13, now with 15% more drama!"

Diatress, this link is for you.  HaemishM at his best (http://www.f13.net/reviews.php?subaction=showfull&id=1080685565&archive=&start_from=&ucat=2&)

No its     WUA> Broughden > Cheddar> Diatress


I am posting in green.

Your "hardcore" sounds a lot like "gullible" or "stupid."



The worst that can happen to you in any MMORPG is that you don't level as fast as someone else.


You chose to make the investment knowing how bad the game was. Poor investing skills. Your "pussy out"  sounds a lot like "move on to a better game."

If you're so hardcore quit whining. You seem proud of sticking with L2 despite how sucky it is, so why do you want it fixed? Then what will you brag about?

L2 community = people who get exactly what they are asking for.

I have as much sympathy for you as for someone who builds they house at the water's edge of a beach and then complains when it washes away two weeks later, while bragging that they didn't pussy out and build in a place that wasn't retarded.

Have you got some silver bullets?

This is probably a terrible time to say this, in light of Big Gulp's post... but Righ works in Network Security.   :lol:

I'm pretty sure BG knew that. :)

Haha.  Actually you have gotten better, but this is how you sounded for your first week here.

But its NOT those companies.  And that's part of the giant, crushing point that many almost always miss.  And, that's what's driving us batshit insane.

The REAL, SCREAMING, KICK-IN-THE-NUTS problem is that the need exists AT ALL.  That is the fault ENTIRELY of the people running the game.  They've created something that isn't a game, but that convinces people with weak minds and a need for both a persistance of accomplishments and a need for validation that they have to get the new shineys. 

The OP is making this problem worse, not better.  Instead of voting with your own feet and telling people 'This game sucks, we should stop playing it.', you're telling them 'the game sucks, and its their fault' while you point at someone to demonize.  That's a lie, and you're either too dumb or too addicted to realize it. 

Even if you somehow got rid of IGE and every facilitator overnight, your gameplay would STILL SUCK.   The goldfarmers aren't the problem, they are just the ones who are pointing it out while making a few bucks in the process.

Lineage 2 - IGE = Lineage 2.



Of course it will be a problem in the future, because the chuckleheads like you are still spending money on the game in the present.  Please, for the love of god, stop.

Cheddar, I thought we were friends.   :heartbreak:

Then again, at least I beat Broughden!  In your face!  :rock:

Anyway, Schild should be happy.  The notoriety of F13 must indeed be on the increase for it to have become the manifesto dumping-ground of choice for feces-smeared MMO lunatics everywhere.  I'm only half-joking here.

I'm not happy that people exist that think this is ok. But it entertains you all, so I'm happy about that I suppose.

WUA I think his manifesto calls for your  WUA Subliminal Vision(tm)

Fixed it for you. :-P

It was complete and utter dreck, but thanks to the members of our community it transformed into humorous dreck.  My fear is that we will soon be awash with dreck and be unable to stop the flow.

We need a plunger.  Or a dam.  I dunno, my analogies suck.

The spice must flow, what?

That's not fear. It's paranoia. We've been over that.

You guys are posting about me on the sekret forums, aren't you? 

You are number six.

Nope, but it couldn't have fallen any more cleanly into my hands!   :evil:

We want... information.

Heh.

You guys are being too mean. L2 brought us improved boobs. As is readily apparent today.

GW had nice boobs as well.

WUA Subliminal Vision(tm) on demand!  I'm trimming the original out, it's too damned much text.

I assure you that you are not gamers like us.


Words cannot express the Cthulhu-esque shitstorms we have seen.

Noooooo Soln!! You changed your avatar!! I want Number 6 back!!!  :heartbreak:

It's not the hardest, just the longest. Your logic it's typical troll logic: twist concepts until they vanish leaving only bad smell behind.

I couldn't read your opening post cause:

1) It's bad written
2) It doesn't tell anything new, and from the few lines I read it isn't interesting at all. We all knew about it. Actually, we all know BETTER about it.

To sum up, the only thing you achieved coming here is to remember us that "they (you) come out of the fucking walls!"
Better secure the perimeter before night comes. As they mostly come out at night. Mostly.

Oh, and on a side note: you keep talking about freedom of speech, respectful opinions. I could argue that you disrespected lots of people here just posting that stuff without even caring to know where you were posting and who were your guests. Just assuming that your pile of crabs could be of any use for the people here is disrespectful enough, as you could have known better just being a nice lurker for a while.

(http://sucs.swan.ac.uk/~cmckenna/ttff/wealddown/buildings/barn_door.jpg)

The "article's" complaints all seem to boil down to flaws in the L2 game design.  If you weren't such a snob about other games, you might have learned the value of instancing for high-level content. 

If he weren't such a knob, he'd also have realized that RMT isn't unique to L2, nor did it originate there. In addition, he'd also have bothered to listen to the people telling him this discussion's been going on for nearly a decade now.

While we're wishing, however, I'd like this saturday's lotto numbers.

4 8 15 16 23 42

Priceless and worth the pages to get there. Thx

there, order restored

BTW that wasn't #6, but John Drake, Dangerman (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053496/) (AKA Sekret Agent Man)

that's a good grief title, come to think of it

Schild should make a Submission Guidelines (http://www.harpers.org/SubmissionGuidelines.html) sticky for new entrants to post their essays to.  And within in it have a support@f13.net that goes to Jack Thompson.  Or Smed.  Or someone in Korea.  Or anyone who wouldn't get it.

I know it's unfair to him, but how can you think of McGoohan as anything else but Number Six?
I know Drake came first, but still!! :) (not to mention the fact that Number Six is "probably" John Drake after all...)

By the way, can't believe no one ever made a Prisoner videogame. Especially in the 80s, when they used to make games from things like the Rocky Horror Picture Show or Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
Could it be that I just can't recall, but they actually did it?

We don't want to hear about your Rough Sex fetish here.

Also, they're CRUMPETS



I had access to the secret forums once. For a day. Then it got taken away.  :cry:

Ho ho!  IT Security, how I desire to be included amongst your illustrious ranks.

Well, ironically enough, Cheddar used RMT to buy his way out of that heritage with his F13 license plate.  Plus, you left out Poseidon.

Hi there, grind-haters.

I'd just like to pop in, mostly to apologize for the idiocy you have been exposed to through the Lineage 2 community. Yes, this is an issue that the Bartz server is taking very seriously. I do not play there. To be honest, however, it is a game design issue. I know most of you hate L2, and I've seen a few people mention instancing. This would solve the problem, to some degree. However, Lineage 2 is designed as a highly political game. Most of us do not play for grind, or even the mediocre-at-best PvP. We play for the politics. I do not see L2 as a bad game politically, it is about establishing power through friends and enemies by conquering castles and extreme raids which can require around 150 people or more.

For this reason, instancing does not sit well in Lineage 2. It is difficult to have a political battle over a raid that everyone can do. For this same reason, however, farmers have much more power in this game than in other games. Much of the community puts the blame on NCSoft. This may be somewhat accurate, however, I would not expect them to act any differently. Although L2's actual playerbase has gone down since release, it's active accounts have gone up significantly. This is because of the majority of players owning multiple accounts, and farmers who run 3 to 10 groups (9 characters per group) on different servers. This is all despite the fact that over 30,000 accounts have been banned to date (the total subscription numbers do not exceed much above 100k I believe, so this is significant). Basically, NCSoft NA is making money on this unlike many of their failed projects.

What it really comes down to is that Lineage 2 was a well designed game for hardcore players who enjoy politics. What ended up happening is that Lineage 2 was the PERFECT game for farming, and continues to be so. In fact, you can blame most of todays farming problems on the industry that the Lineage brand has essentially created. So all in all, I feel Lineage 2 was a pretty good idea, however it cannot be saved at this point and it is not the GMs fault. The design supports farmers, and if you're going to play you have to deal with that.

(sorry again for my community being dumb.)

Thank you, for not only understanding the issue but also being able to type coherently. :)

Your last line sums while the original post to this thread was so pointless.  Well done.

Xilren 

nPee m8 i'M back 2 botcamp now lolz i gotta train up sum grind skilLz cuz archlord is comming out soon

Oi veh, will you stop with the 'L2 is for hardcore gamers' crap already! Grinding interminably doesn't make you hardcore, it makes you stupid. Back in the day of yesteryear when UO and EQ were the only viable games on the market, we had no other recourse but to grind. There were no other options. Someone somewhere along the line decided that the first person with nothing better to do but to reach level 50 fast by spawn camping was hardcore. This took hold in the minds of adolescents around the globe, and it seems that a big portion of them ran off to L2.

We have choices now. You can go full on PVP in many games, without the mind numbing tedium that L2 requires. A few dorky westerners are trying to compete against sweat-shop Asian consortiums in a game that for all intents and purposes is designed for grueling grind work in the first place. Move on. Or stay. But for the love of god do not complain about the game being broken.

Lastly, do not be surprised if the entire game is handed over to those who earn a living off the backs of morons like you who keep paying for L2.

To give you an analogy of some sorts; back in the day, we typed everything with typewriters. Then word processing came along. Everyone switched. Noone considers those who keep using a typewriter 'hardcore', just misguided luddites. Misguided rich luddites, by most asian standards. Do not be surprised if an entire economy arises around your stubborn refusal to admit that your grind doesn't mean anything to anyone anymore.

I would link you to a web site that I write for with a heavy slant towards gaming and MMOG gaming in particular, but I've been told not to link to specific stories on my own web site. Instead, I'll just point you downwards.

If you can't figure out that you don't even have a clue what community or individuals you are talking about, why should anyone bother listening to you about whatever it is you are trying to say?

Welcome to f13, we're sorry your community is so stupid also.  While I can understand the joy of a "political" game, I just can't fathom how anyone can stand the grind.  My friend told me sieges were really really cool and I would love to see one but he used a bot to get to the endgame so I'm not sure that counts.

Even on a free-shard L2 server with x5 exp I was amazed at how slow leveling got, and sweet god the job change quest?  That thing could cockblock every frat boy in the midwest by itself.

Anyway, thanks for proving that some people can actually not be fucktards when they first post on a bbs.  You did much better then I.

This kid I like.

Most people who play L2 started it the summer that it came out. I suspect many were unemployed students like myself (at the time), who simply had an entire summer to blow on the grind.

Since then, most new players will rely on purchased adena or automation programs to catch up to the rest of the players. I would say around 75% of my alliance (3 clans) have botted at some point. Myself included. Recently, this has included some people who had been against automation and EULA-breaking for the longest time. Finally, they have cracked and realized that, this too is just something you have to deal with if you're going to play Lineage 2.

It's not a perfect game by any means. Not even good, I would say. But my friends play it, so I'll play with them until they find something besides WoW. I've considered EvE, but just like L2, I think EvE is impossibly hard to start at this point without cheating your ass off.

Actually it's pretty easy to get started in EVE, especially if you know a few people. What's a lot of money to a noobie is pocket change to a vet so you can get on your feet and fighting very quickly.

I'm not aware of anyone in the F13 corp who has cheated. I think only 1 or 2 people have resorted to buying ISK with gametime codes, and that's sanctioned by CCP (the developer).

Even though Eve sort of has a grind, a lot of it goes on while you're offline.

Well all I know is that L2 has turned me into a conflicted person. It's hard to hate everything that is wrong with this genre when all of your closest friends endorse it.  :|

Good post, damijin.

This is why I don't like to say things like "You're retarded if you play Lineage 2" because you clearly are not retarded, you just enjoy different aspects of MMGs than we do.

I always wonder how game communities evolve into the monsters they eventually become.  Guild Wars, for instance, is one of the most strategically advanced MMGs out there, and yet its community is full of total idiots.  And yet a game like City of Heroes offers little strategy, and a lot of mindless superhero fun, but it has one of the better communities I've seen spring up in a MMG.

We will not mention the community of WoW in this post.

Don't worry, Damijin.  I played the original Lineage for about a year and nearly got to level 50 before I quit.  I'm surprised I still have vital signs.

Incest.

Devs play the part of Big Daddy, turning the customers out. 

Vital signs, now there's a gray area, Signe. We actually replaced your heart with a coconut and your brain with a pack of wild zebras running around in the worlds most spacious blender - also, there might be a clown or two somewhere in there. Translate that as you want, but technically, I suppose you still have vital signs.

Getting to 50 in L1 is no joke (or so I hear). That game is a harder grind than L2, and you character is always the same sprite, unaffected by armor or weapon (I think!)

I commend you sir!

I still have some relative hope for L3, but I'm more interested in Aion and Warhammer until L3 releases some basic news/concepts. I'm also interested (as are a significant portion of my L2 friends) in Pirates of the Burning Sea, I just thought I'd put that out there in case it struck anyone as strange that a bunch of grind happy cheaters would want to play a quest-based naval game.

Damnit, you have been reading the script for Rob Schnieders: The Animal 2.

But when you say it, I think the movie might be good.

Good Lord do I miss out on some great threads...

Was a little disapointing, I kept waiting for someone to post Diatress's sectret Blog and breakup letters from his girlfriend.
All in all I'm quite impressed that Diatress maintained such a happy outlook throughout all this, far better than most of his/her kind fair with this type of first post.

A few comments to try to press this silly thread further:

 - most of us are no longer MMoG gamers, we are now jaded ex-gamers with pipedreams of the next great thing.
 - L2 is almost the perfect template of a game built for gold farming, so it's tough to feel sorry for you
 - we've been through this before. IGE has been the target of many a rant here in the past, and when you jumped in with a rant that looked like a four year old wrote it, well, you got what you got.

Welcome to the forums. :)



hmm... spellchecker seems to be broken. Maybe the Grammar Snake ate it?
Ok, no it isn't. Company web connection dropped. Notepad is my friend.

Thank you, madam!  (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/nod.gif)

now I feel dumb.

Wait a sec, Signe is a chick?

Don't be silly.  I'm a woman.

(http://216.119.109.157/content/images/poultry1.jpg)

Don't feel bad, they are somewhat of a rarity in these parts. Off the top of my head we have the avatar griefing euro-chick you just met, an elveny named one with racoony avatars, and a chainsmoking botanist who got exiled to buttfuck nowhere.

Anyone else is just a mangina.

Welcome to the boards.


*edit: Signe, your current avatard is actually cute. Much better than any of the ones with the aggresive packages.

Uh oh.

You are more Euro than I am, you big Canadian you!  (and probably more woman than I could ever be, no?)

Oohhhhhh, that right there is a call for fisticuffs where I hail from.

And actually, I believe there are at least 4 women at F13, but we tend to just glaze over that point.

EDIT: And in some places, it's still probably the right thing to call a woman Sir. The military comes to mind, though someone will undoubtedly correct me.

I thought that was just for Startrek.

If I'm talking to a woman who also happens to be something like a Major, I'd be inclined to address her as Sir. I'm assuming she earned the rank like most other people.

Not really.  Women should not be in the military; hell they should barely be allowed to work (outside of raising kids/taking care of home).  First they get the right to drive, then they want the right to vote.  :roll:

But I digress.

From wikipedia:

"I learned something today."
(http://usuarios.lycos.es/pepelo007/kyle14.gif)

[/quote]

The phrase 'sir yes sir' is called a sir sandwich, I guess when it involves a female officer it would be a ma'am sandwich.

Wouldn't they both be "yes sandwiches" since the sir/ma'am is the bread?

Are you suggesting that there is something wrong with a bread sandwich?

Wouldn't that be a ma'amwich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manwich)?

Which was some fine eatin when I was 6.

Xilren

Mmmm. The sandwich that eats like a meal.

Nice thread. The taint creeps into F13 from the outside world as the site gets more exposure. Luckily, the attack dogs come in and get things cleaned up very quickly. A funny thread is the result. Everyone wins.

What's even better is that some of the new folks who got pummelled actually stick around and become part of the community.

I played Lineage 1 for 3 years and made it to level 4.2

True story.



On subject, my guess is eventually MMOG companies will start giving the farmers a run for their money. From a business standpoint, why let them get a piece of your pie? Additional charges directly to the credit card you are already using for your sub. Hell, Blizzard now has 25 dollar character transfers. I remember UO adding some kinda of pay for X skills kinda thing.

I think it will slowly become more mainstream and accepted, especially if whatever is sold helps even the playing field for the more casual types (see 9-5ers, people that started playing MMOs but cannot do the grind anymore). Something like this, I'll use WoW as an example. Lets say 1 year ago...

Tier 1 armor and weapons can only be received currently if you are a raiding guild. After a certain amount of time passes, and the next instance comes out and starts to be farmed, then you can then purchase the Tier 1 items with real life cash.

15 Dollars for an item like Brutality Blade.
10 per Tier 1 armor piece
10 dollars for 5 of any cores

20 dollars for 500 gold.

Rare drops such as Vis'kag from Onyxia CANNOT be purchased. Quest items such as Black Sinew, or the leaf or Eye from Domo cannot be purchased. This leaves the 'hardcore' guys with their hardcore stuff. Have more rare drops in these dungeons to counter the catass response of OMGWTF they didnt earn it!

They get the items later. They are casual and still competitive. The catasses still have their slight advantage. The company makes more money.

I was as 'hardcore' as it got for a married man with 2 kids...i was BWL geared out before i retired... and this wouldnt bug me in the least.

Wikipedia knows all. All hail Wikipedia!

Wikipedia knows enough. Golf-clap for Wikipedia.

I think they just make the crap up.

I AM NOT A NUMBER! I AM A FREE MAN!

This thread can be summed up with, "haha, L2". Good follow-through however.

Yes they can. Buy an account.

Well, thats a whole nother ball of wax.

I guess i was trying to start some sort of conversation regarding how the industry could take advantage of people with fat wallets with nothing else to spend their money on as long as they did it in a controlled matter to not piss off the fanbois, and make the casual gamers pleased by these options.

I was waiting for a response that might be like "well then you start having liability issues when you charge for online goods" etc...or maybe something else to talk about, but its not surprising that my post may get overlooked...I cannot really get brutally FLAMMED for it so why bother responding ? No offense guys, but if you wanna play the "it's been said card" show your stuff and discuss my totally bad ass idea. That or we can just let this doomed thread die.

The young fighter had a hungry look, the kind you get from not eating for a while.

Wish I was too dead to cry
My self-affliction fades
Stones to throw at my creator
Masochists to which I cater
You don't need to bother;
I don't need to be
I'll keep slipping farther
But once I hold on,
I won't let go 'til it bleeds

Wish I was too dead to care
If indeed I cared at all
Never had a voice to protest
So you fed me shit to digest
I wish I had a reason;
my flaws are open season
For this, I gave up trying
One good turn deserves my dying

You don't need to bother;
I don't need to be
I'll keep slipping farther
But once I hold on,
I won't let go 'til it bleeds

[Solo: Corey]

Wish I'd died instead of lived
A zombie hides my face
Shell forgotten
with its memories
Diaries left
with cryptic entries

And you don't need to bother;
I don't need to be
I'll keep slipping farther
But once I hold on,
I won't let go 'til it bleeds

You don't need to bother;
I don't need to be
I'll keep slipping farther
But once I hold on:
I'll never live down my deceit

He spoke with the wisdom that can only come from experience, like a guy who went blind because he looked at a solar eclipse without one of those boxes with a pinhole in it and now goes around the country speaking at high schools about the dangers of looking at a solar eclipse without one of those boxes with a pinhole in it.

Her name was Lola, she was a showgirl
With yellow feathers in her hair and a dress cut down to there
She would merengue and do the cha-cha
And while she tried to be a star, Tony always tended bar
Across a crowded floor, they worked from 8 till 4
They were young and they had each other
Who could ask for more?

(http://www.girlzclan.com/forums/images/smilies/bananadance.gif)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mzmhHWwwAk

FYI, STONE SOUR is back together, and starting their fucking tour in my home town, Virginia Beach.  Yeah.  I am uber excited and super hung over.  Last night kicked ass on so many levels.  DD for the win.  <ramble ramble ramble>

Take a nap!

You mean other than character transfer services charged at insane prices? Or how about charging for event coordination? How about a Legends server with 1.5 times more GM interaction at 4 times the price? Ooo ooo, can we do the one character per account thing? Or make buffbots practically necessary? Or design a game so punishingly grindy and group-focused that multiple account holders outnumber single-account holders?

The industry has been taking advantage of people with fat wallets and little sense for years now.

From a link on Lum's site, try Dan Rbenfield's response (http://rubenfield.com/blog/2006/06/28/in-which-i-crush-fanbois-dreams-of-an-equitable-mmo-world/).  Sicne the developers can create items/money with a wave of the mouse, they should always be able to undercut farmer's.  While that's technically true, so long as farmers can still obtain such items in game by playing, they can always try to undercut the prices offered by the dev house to maintain SOME market.  If you drive down the cost low enough, they'll just switch from items/gold to maxxed out characters.  Whatever facet of the game is the biggest time sink, THAT's the area the farmers can make a profit on.

Remember, there not selling items/coin/, they are selling TIME SAVINGS.

In truth, a mainstream game that has no monthly fee's but direct micro payemnts for items/skills/stuff can't be but so far off.  What I hope most developers headed down this road realize is Micro payments cannot be a substitue for FUN.  If the base game sucks, you're still outta luck (and cash).

Xilren

Isn't that Project Entropia? Not that they are mainstream but they seem to get their name out in the news once in a while for some catassery or other. I can't say that I've paid too much attention to it though since getting banned there for ummm "beta-testing their forums".

You buy PE dollars, whatever they are called, then use them to buy "stuff" in game from other players (or npcs i believe).  The major difference being Project Scamtopia claims you can withdraw money back out by playing their shell game, thus "you to can make money while playing a game!"

Most dev house aren't interested in that i suspect.

Xilren
PS Oh yeah, they forgot the whole "fun" part too

Once I find a L2 account @ 74+ w/ a good pvp class on Bartz, Kain or Sieghart for $80 or less I'm going to buy it.  I will not even feel dirty doing so.  I'm curious what the game is like at high levels, I mean there must be some fun somewhere right?  Right?  Plus I heard the castle siege system is very cool.

I did.  And thanks for the reminder!

edit.  I am thinking about doing something CRAZY and renewing my L2 account.  Its been awhile, so the game has to of improved.  Right?

Anyone want to join me in L2?  I am DL'ing it now, and will be on around 7-8 pm EST! 

Got any hot pokers for my eyes?

I would, but I am scheduled to beat my balls with a tack hammer at the exact same time.

Poo on you guys!  I remember being really excited about this game (I actually enjoyed the first one) and hope they have patched in "the fun."  I cannot decide what class to play though; I was thinking either dwarf or orc. 

I'm telling you the fun has not been patched in, the grind is unbearable.  But you can just bot if you want.  There are some accounts being sold for reasonable prices though, usually at L74 which is right before you pick up the subclass and become a noble or something like that if I remember right.

The grind isn't as bad as it was.

Newbie buffs help you get to 30 with relative speed, but I would recommend playing no less than two characters. Having a personal buffer is pretty much required after 30.

Other than that... I hear the mid-50s to 60s pvp clans are pretty fun. I'm stuck on a server with 2 major end-game clans going at it. We both cheat a lot, and it's not very entertaining. Lots of ganking. Lower level wars are much more fun, I think.

These days theres enough castles that I think low-level clans own 1 or 2 castles on every server. The high levels can't control them all because they wouldn't be able to defend them.

Oh and adena is cheap, so buy yourself something pretty.

Edit: Oh and yes 74 is right before you subclass. On a lot of servers though, getting the subclass quest done is a real pain in the ass. Raid boss farmers often kill the bosses required to complete the quest. It really depends on if the farmers are nice and will let you get the required quest items or not.

You don't become a noble until after you've reached 76 on your main and secondary class. Once you've become a noble you can compete in the monthly tournament to be the hero of you class, which makes you glow like a small star and give you some pretty cool gear.

I am having a surprising amount of fun.  You are correct; noob buffs are kicking rad!  I have a dwarf at level 12 on one server, and an old character at level 18 on another.  I was a little turned off after heading to Gludin, though; there was (not exaggerating) around 200 people with personal stores EVERYWHERE.  I could not imagine wading through that with a lesser computer.  What server are you on?  My only gripe is I have no one to play with currently (or chat with, for that matter). 


And keke la or something.

Did somebody call me a mangina?

Weak. Not weak sauce, just weak.

Maybe they were confused.  Were you wearing a mandana on your head?

Hmm, best comparison would be.... EVE, with Elves, but Korean (thus, lotta rang rang, lotta bots). Castle Sieges were fun-ish, unless you were like me, and a Bishop, i.e. gank bait (although honestly, the drama got real bad on Kain around launch, and not even in entertaining ways so I got sick of it) :|.

This is coming from someone that handed their account to their guild before Chronicle 2 (maybe a touch after), so it might have gotten less retarded (although I do hear the starter buffs are really helpful in getting you up to speed), but if anything remains in an MMO it's the drama. Your mileage may very though.

Did I hear you correctly that you need a second account? Or can you simultaneously play with two characters on the same account? Is this 'working as intended'?

I'm having trouble reconcileing these types of statements that suggest a game more disfunctional than the Charlie Manson Family Hour and the previouis statements by the original poster claiming that this game is somehow at the vanguard (no pun intended) of the MMO market.

I'm on Gustin. But I don't play much. The fact that all of my friends cheat really depresses me about the genre. I tried to cheat, but my class sucks too bad to cheat effectively with :(


Heres where it gets tricky. Yes you need multiple accounts for your multiple characters to play the game with any relative speed. Yes the game is disfunctional. I do not often recomend the game to anyone.

The big debate comes in when you start to look at design choices and updates to classes. These have, at times, seemed to promote multiple account ownership and even botting.

You can dual client in L2. I don't know if you've played any other games with the GameGuard anti-cheat software, but L2 has it. In every other game I have played with this software (Gunbound and Rakion), GameGuard prevents the opening of more than one client. NCSoft purposely not to include this feature to encourage playing of multiple accounts.

Some classes (dark elf and light elf healers) are extremely easy to dual client. You just leave your main on target and click 1 or 2 keys every now and then. With a decent in-game macro (legal) it will auto-follow and cast heals/mana recharges on your character. This leads me to believe that NCSoft wants people to play more than one character at a time, simply because a single character is usually mind-numbingly simple to play. Many of my friends 2 or 3 box at every raid and even in PvP. However, some people are REALLY lazy and will bot these simple-to-play healers. This is a testament to the gamer's desire for maximum achievement for minimum work.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bottom line located somewhere after this series of dashes.---

NCSoft's strategy for causing players to own multiple accounts has worked. I have two. Many of my friends have up to 4 or 5. Some of my friends have 9 (bot party) or more. If anyone can dig up the NCSoft quarterly subscription reports (I losted it), you'll see that L2 is one of the few games that has gone UP in average monthly logins, concurrent logins, daily logins, etc since launch in NA. This is simply because as players leave, farmers and the remaining players pay for their accounts in order to support their mains.

I'm not saying this is good as a game model, but it deserves careful attention as a business strategy. I have my doubts about it's long-term viability, but it's working for now.

And they pay you how much to play this disaster?

Around negative $30 per month.

Minus any money you might spend on RMT. I planned on buying money, but much like my failed attempt at botting, my clan mates gave me everything I wanted for free.  :|

Strange folks.

I suggest you to wait until Chronicle 5 (coming in a couple of months).
That has lots of new stuff, lots of Guild vs. Guild content, and basically... will make the game a little more different from the beta we all tried and despised.

I'll try L2 again myself out of boredom as soon as C5 comes out.

EDIT: oh, looks like you already did it. Bummer.

You know, for most sane people, that'd be a good fucking hint that the grind really is as bad as all that.

EDIT: And why WOULDN'T they promote multiple account users? More profit from less people.

Introduce the bastards to cocaine. That'll dry up that whole stupid MMO thing.

This line made me giggle. I'm so damn happy.

NCSoft should make it their logo:

"We're so much fun you pay us to TERRORIZE you!"

  YIKES!!!   I could not read it all...  China is not the largest country that pharms, and the currency is not a multimillion, but a multibillion dollar a year industry, which drops the credit of the post.  Also where there is a demand, someone will play the role of a supplier.  What you are doing is the same as standing outside of an abortion clinic and screaming "ABORTION IS MURDER", no one cares anymore.  You do not like the currency market for MMO's then do not take part in it, to sit here and judge others is simply asking a judgement to be delivered on yourself, which side of God's throne do you sit on, that you may judge?

Achieve astounding results in bed with these products designed to make any man a winner. Most quality products for anyone who wants to become a champion in bed. He who drinks Australian Thinks Australian Too many clicks spoil the browse Look before you leap. Nowt so queer as folk! Middle age is when broadness of the mind and narrowness of the waist change places.

Why does this entire thread make me very sad?  :sad_panda:

Somebody forgot to tell you to leave your faith in humanity at the door?

The game sucks. Vote with your fuckign wallet already. Jesus. You act like they are forcing this shit on you. If you dont enjoy it, step away. If you do enjoy it.... There is no help for you.

(http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/4/4e/Thecreepyburgerking.jpg)

I never acted helpless or complained that I didn't like it. The game is mildly entertaining and I enjoy the friends that I have there. It's a lot better than any game that has come out since WoW, and I don't really like joining old games because I always feel really behind or out of place. So I'll call this cesspit of botting, ebaying, and farmer scum home for now.

That's fucking beautiful.  I'm going to save it and giv eit a print out when i get home.

  You got to have faith in humanity!  As of this point in time if you put a gun to mans head(The majority, anyway) he still creates a sense of fear in of himself.  It seems however that only under threat of death, does man truly evolve or move forward, I guess this means we need more death and destruction?

Obviously we must set up someone the bomb.

You know I noticed the exact same thing! GW was my first real MMO (started it last year) and I decided recently I wanted to branch out into some other MMOs because they were ultra-cheap at my local computer store and I could just ditch them after the free month if I didn't like them. Got CoV for $10 and L2 for $3.

First thing I thought about CoV after playing GW for the last 15 months? "CoV players are so friendly it's creepy! I thought these were supposed to be villains! Where are the griefers?"

The other thing I realize from this thread is that I am a moron if I actually pay for a real L2 subscription. I'll probably just muck around on a 30XP free shard for a few days and get my $3 worth. That, and maybe glue together the 2' tall cardboard bimbo doll printed on about three dozen postcards that came inside the box. I guess they want to give you something else to do while your bot grinds loot for you...?  :roll:

Also, why no mention of the WoW community? I am still resisting playing the game because I am cheap (brainwashed from playing too much GW). What am I missing out on?

Fun gameplay and a metric fuckton of asstards?

Fun gameplay for a couple months.

But if you're not into raiding, it won't be your thing.  And, given that Guild Wars is your game of choice, I don't think you're into raiding.

I do know that I've gotten to the point where not only do I dislike PuGs (preferring to group solely with guildies), but when I am forced to PuG I tend to see if anyone in the guild has had bad experiences with whatever idiot (or his guild) just joined.

I was sitting around yesterday staring at one of my alts, horrified at the notion that every active quest I had was too much work solo (I prefer duos, actually), no guild alts of anywhere near the right level were on,  and the thought of pairing up with a random idiot was simply too much to bear, so I switched to a level 60 and helped out some guild mages with some quest or other.

Gee that sounds a lot like Guild Wars, I guess I'm not missing out at all. Although from what I hear, WoW is a lot bigger on "teh shiny" as it's called here.

What other MMOs besides CoX are not overrun by 'tards? Probably not EVE, a couple of my GW guildys are slowly migrating over there and from what I understand they've joined some sort of piratical griefers' corporation that goes around trying to "pod" as many people as possible. Something tells me they didn't come up with that idea themselves   :roll:


Not me personally, but recently GW introduced these so-called "Elite Missions" into factions which I'm told, are somewhat similar to raids in WoW. They were intended to be exclusive areas for the most uber guilds but soon enough people figured out an exploit that lets anyone play them. Anyway they're super long PvE zones that take a squad of 12 people about 3 hours to clear, and there's real nice loot (by GW standards) at the end. Trap, pull mobs, heal, repeat. I played through each one once about halfway and am back to PvP, where things are much less predictable (and therefore, interesting to me).

Oddly enough, a lot of my GW in-game friends are in hardcore PvE guilds, always busting their butts to get the coolest armor, minipets, etc. (Whereas all I pay attention to is the stats.) It only took me about the first 15 minutes of City Of Villains to realize that they all should be playing that game instead, I just don't have the heart to break the bad news to them :-D

While I agree that l2 is a terrible game due to all the reasons listed here it did have a few saving graces:

1. Castle Sieges were incredibly fun and amazingly non-laggy. After 12 months of every PvP gathering in WoW resulting in a server crash I started to appreciate the fact that l2 was able to support 500+ players and countless NPCs with very few problems. (Assisting someone who was targeting a castle door = game crash)

2. Open pvp. While l2's flagging system had its flaws, namely the ability to stop attacking and go white before a stronger opponent killed you, having a guild permared account was one of the most enjoyable things i've ever experienced in an MMO (certainly possible that my enjoyment seemed far better than it actually was when juxtaposed with hours of mind-numbing grinding). We were able to control the farmers and relegated them to less profitable dungeon, we even forced them to pay us rent. The abuse led to a disclaimer in their Adena selling ebay auctions ("Gustin prices are $10 more due to EA"). I wish I saved some of the screenshots when we performed farmer cleansing days and they rang the alarm bells in China, there was something satisfying about slaughtering hundreds of little female dwarves shouting "ciao ni ma" and "america mcdonalds pig fat".

Still not worth playing though! And i'm sorry but there is no way that lineage "breeds" hardcore gamers, there are only 2 classes which take more effort than pressing one button until your mana runs out, and when I say more effort I mean you need to press 2 buttons. You can play for hours and hours in any game and still be a failure as shown by the OP.

I have a hard time condemning someone to 'tarddom in eve for getting their jollies from pod kills; it's a PvP game. Not allowing yourself to be podded at an inopportune time -- and things of this sort -- constitutes a lot of the fun in eve. Since there is so much political friction surrounding just about everyone in the game (unless you choose to live your life in 'empire' NPC space where nothing big really happens), and nefarious backstabbing social tactics are just as encouraged by devs as good old pvp, you certainly have to deal with an atmosphere of "looking out for number one" when interacting with people on a more global scale. But if that doesn't appeal to you, then eve isn't for you to begin with. None of these things can really be looked upon as griefing in eve; unlike other games, it puts a tremendous emphasis on player interaction, by design.

In my experience eve has a much higher percentage of competent, intelligent and often friendly players than most other MMOGs, if nothing else because of the insanely boring, repetitive, and ultimately pointless introduction with which new players are faced through their first month or so of playing the game; it really does a wonderful job of weeding out stupid people, and just about anyone who doesn't know exactly what they want to get out of the game.

This part owned.  :hulk_rock: :rock_hard: :rock:

CoX is the only game I know of where you actually get more PUG action WITHOUT putting up a LFG tag. And for the most part, I've never been disappointed. Any other MMOG, I'd sit around for hours waiting for an invite (I'm lookiing at you FFXI and EQ). CoX? I can barely log in and get my wits about me without being asked for a group. I had a random invite in WoW yesterday that went well but that's a rarity as I'm a loner in WoW. CoX definately has the best MMOG community ever. I think it's because there's really no pressure and if someone fucks up a mission, there's usually not too bad of a penalty. Everyone can pretty much laugh it off and try again without many hard feelings. There's no rolling for loot so people aren't all in a bind if so-and-so gets some piece of uber gear and didn't really deserve it. Plus, everyone can contribute if they even have half an inkling as to how to play. It feels more like a game than an f-ing job like the other MMOGs. Still has grind but so far I've found that if you get a good group, you can level quite speedily and feel like you're accomplishing things.

Hm, I still don't get why NCSoft or Blizzard just make IGE or any company dealing with these farmer business to closedown.
Or is there a law preventing them from doing so?

More like a lack of a law.

What IGE does is legal, as far as we know. No one has bothered trying to take them to court, because there are not clear enough laws as to what "virtual property" is, so it would probably be a waste of money/time/effort.

And then getting 'virtual property' legally defined starts to bring in other unwanted attention.  Like the IRS or other tax agencies.   If it makes money, a government will tax it.

Better to just keep doing mass bannings, advertise you're doing it and make the $50*(# of banned accounts) the companies have to repurchase.