f13.net

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Movies/03/22/film.church.reut/index.html

Thomas Haden 'that-guy-from-Sideways' Church is to play the as yet unnannounced villian in Spiderman3.

Meaning that either...

1) Raimi is going to leave his GG plot hanging after reportedly his last spiderman film.
2) Raimi is going to do 4+ films.
3) There will be two villians in one film. <Shudder>

Wow. They managed to find the guy who looks more like William Defoe than anyone else in the industry. Fantastic!

Sorry, I'm incapable of taking stuff like this seriously. Until they give his villianous role a name, this is Useless News.

I did hear a while back, when a reporter asked Raimi about the next Spidey villian.

"It's all in black and white." He had a little smirk going on there too.

/shrug

I dunno. Lowell will make a good villian, whoever it is. I'm surprised it took this long for him to finally get some recognition.

/rant

(ignore if you wish)

I've always thought it was funny how the "side characters" from sitcoms end up getting more gigs later on, while the stars of those shows always fall into obscurity. For example: Woody Harrelson, Tony Shaloub, Chelsea Grammar, and now Thomas Haden Church.

But where in the hell is Ted Danson these days?

/rant off

Hopefully retired.


ZING!

Kirstie Allie needs to follow suit. She's been popping up on my television a lot lately (and I don't even watch that much of it). I guess she's trying to make a "comback". But why was she better than Shelly Long in the first place? Have you seen Night Shift?

I have nothing but love for that ass (in it's day, of course).

The pig on my TV screen -- I could do without her.

edit: Someone rerail this quick. I'm too tired to even try.

Well, he was in Saving Private Ryan, and the short-lived TV series Becker.  I haven't heard much from him since he got in trouble for wearing blackface to a comedy roast thing (it was Whoopi's idea).

As for Thomas Haden Church, well assuming he doesn't replace one of the other actors (so no Green Goblin 2, Lizard, etc.) then my bet is on Sandman, who seems to be a natural for CGI work, and whom he can look the part.

Bruce

He was misunderstood. Blackface is a lost art.

(http://www.musicals101.com/News/jolson.jpg)

GO GO AL JOLSON!

I liked Becker.  It was a show about a Doctor that told you to get to fuck.

Worked for me.


It also had the Dax Unit in it.  I never realised, till watching Becker, that she had such tiny boobs.

Now I know why that face looked so familar, thanks a lot

My prediction: the Hobgoblin.

I thought they'd do much better just turning the younger Osborn into the Green Goblin or the Hobgoblin. Or turning Conner into the Lizard, who is a much more ubiquitous Spider-Man villain than say, the Sandman. Or God forbid, fucking Venom. Please, no Venom. PLEASE?! I also shudder to think there could be 2 villains in the movie, or worse, 3. Because as we all should know, the Green Goblin didn't die when he got skewered, the serum actually allowed him to regenerate, go live in Europe, fuck Gwen Stacy and make monster children who aged too quickly.

Shoot me now.

Dax = her? Shawnee Smith.

(http://www.tvtome.com/images/people/1/5/29-27793.jpg)

No, not that one.

Dax = Terry Farrell.

This one (http://www.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/0189-sta/Events/0189-sta/farrellt.err?path=pgallery&path_key=Farrell,%20Terry).

Well, the groundwork is laid for Harry to be the second iteration of the GG, which follows canon (Harry can't play the HG, because he's the second GG). I'm guessing Church will play the hobgobber, because it would allow the GG plot to live through this movie without actually bringing in the GG. Also, they don't have to do a ton of backstory explaining the genesis of the villian and his powers, stealing the GG formula to use on himself provides an instant backstory from the first movie. My bet would be an unveiling or strong suggestion at the end of the movie that Harry has taken the formula after the HG is defeated by Spidey. Hell, if they incorporate the GG plot, it's not canon breaking for the 2nd GG to beat the HG himself (though I don't think he beat the first HG...it's hard to tell, the HG plots got super blurry).

It makes a lot more sense than most of the other spidey 'regulars' like Mysterio, Sandman, Vulture, Lizard, Electro, etc, etc; between the physical appearance of the actor and the groundwork already laid out in the first two movies.

Three iterations of a "Goblin" character (Norman, Harry, and Hobgoblin) is serious overkill. It already sucks in the comics, and it'd suck worse in the flicks.

Venom would probably suck worse though, unless the plot was condensed and significantly changed (but if that's the case, it wouldn't really be Venom and the point is moot).

While I like Mysterio, he's just too damn corny for the big screen.

Man Wolf: See Mysterio

Lizard: See Man Wolf (It's OK to touch on these characters like they did in Spidey 2, but c'mon. It won't work.)

Kraven: See Lizard.

Vulture: Ditto. Even if Ben Kingsley gets the part.

Sandman: Winner! He's just a criminal and a thug. There's nothing inherently corny about that. Nothing corny about his powers or his name either. And he's different in every way from the Goblin that it wouldn't bore audiences to see the both of them in the same movie.

I never liked DS9, but I should have made the connection.

Shawnee Smith > Terry Farrell

Yeah, I know William is his birth name, and we all knew who you were refering to..but isn't ir proper to use a person's stage name when applicable?

I don't see why Lizard wouldn't work.  Sure, it's not a "plausible" character, but we're talking about a movie with a guy in blue and red tights with the powers of a spider.  Suspension of disbelief isn't exactly a problem with these movies.  You could make Lizard a pretty damned scary villain IMO.  Another decent one would be Electro.  Flashy for the screen, a little bit crazy, a decent overall character.

I agree, though, that tossing another version of Green Goblin (which I also consider Hobgoblin to be) would just be a waste.  I think Raimi's got to touch on it with the foreshadowing of the last movie, but make it at best a subplot.

I agree with Gulp.  Given that we've already had an introduction to Conners, I don't see a problem with making the Lizard the villain.  Especially since, when done well, his tragedy is such a damn good story.

Nowthat the casting's already been done, however, I think not.

I just don't see how a Lizard in a labcoat is going to translate well to the big screen. Not that I myself can't appreciate a Conners story, but really...Think about it.

Rami had a psychic premonition, and in a twisted parallel of real-life he's going to have J.j. Jameson (http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/4308285/detail.html) turn into a murdering fiend in a Jekyl/ Hyde kind of twist.  Mr. Church will of course be in blackface for the part.

I had to do it.  Ever since I heard JJ Jameson was arrested all I could think of when seeing this thread was, "what kind of a guy runs away from 2 murders and then becomes a poet named for a Spiderman character."

A genius, apparently.

You're mental.  I can see it vividly.  I think a darker tone of the film with a sort of Shakespearean struggle in the villain (kind of like the Green Goblin, but more visceral) would just set it off nicely.  The Lizard set pieces could be darker, with a more 'horror' aspect to it.  Given the nature of the beast, I think it could be quite gripping.  Especially with the Evil Dead man at the helm.

I LOVED the internal struggle in Doc Ock.  Particularly since he's such a fine actor.  I think making villians more than one dimensional is of paramount importance.  Which is why stupid things like Carnage, venom and the like are just fanboi wanking.

Which reminds me - I fucking Hate the way Bendis caved.   What a pussy.

Doc Ock was great. Molina is great. But like I said: A lizard in a labcoat? That's just as much fanboi wanking as Venom is. That's exactly the kind of material that would only hold up for comic book fans. Imo, many mainstream viewers would have a hard time accepting it.

And besides, I don't understand why you would even mention Molina to compare with this. He's an actor. The Lizard, on the other hand, would have to be 100% CGI. It's not comparable. CG may be great for action, but in closeups, the "performance" would suck. And because of that, it'd ruin any intentions in making it "Shakespearean". The whole idea is silly.

Hell, I'd rather prefer Mysterio or Vulture to Lizard. They may be even more corny, but at least there'd be some visible human talent involved.

Why the fuck do you dumbasses think the lab coat is going to make the translation to the screen?

I swear at times you people can get pretty myopic.

OK. Even without the labcoat, a few integral things about the Lizard would be equally stupid:

Connor's transforms on and off as the Lizard through a "serum" --- Typical comic book crap. They'd have to think of something better than that for a movie version.

The only thing he ever cares about in the comics is "killing fleshies" and "taking over the world". There's nothing multidimensional about him (other than that Connors knows he's fucked whenever he's back in human form).

He has the ability to communicate "telepathically" with other reptiles.

If the movie version was some reptillian version of American Werewolf in London, then yeah, maybe a movie version would be good. They'd just have to get rid of just about everything in the comics to accomplish that.

Jesus Christ - somehow you managed to read into what I said that the LIZARD (not Connors) should be doing Romeo and Juliet Soliloquies.

NO - that's NOT what I meant.  I was talking about the horror that Connors feels turning into a beast.  And that's why I said 'darker' because the comic format wouldn't work terribly well - I'm talking about the lizard SHREDDING someone....


And I got to agree with the poster above about your fixation with the labcoat.  Sure, you can LOSE the labcoat.  As long as there's more cowbell...

You could write the first two points about Doc Ock (substitute mind controlling arms for serum).

On your third point, I don't see what is inherently unfilmable about a guy with reptiles for pets.

Anyway, you can get away with an awful lot in spiderman films, because the real villian in all spiderman stories is Peter Parker's angst. The actual flesh and blood opponent, is, in most cases, and certainly in Raimi's vision, just the shiny obstacle that spiderman can only defeat if he first beats down whatever personal problems he has this week. This draws the eye away from the villian and onto spiderman, and means you can get away with an awful lot of shit on the villian side so long as spidey looks good. The various goblin incarnations being the most obvious example of a villian that in any other universe would just look rubbish.

I would think they'll go with GG2 / HG, simply because if it's Raimi's last film he'll want to finish the GG arc. Probably with Harry/GG2 switching sides to be good at the end of the film and then dying in the process of helping spiderman finish off HG.

THC to play an Osborne cousin/brother/uncle who becomes HG?

Well, I didn't want to consider a marvel CGI or rubberized villian after seeing the atrocity that is Ben Grimm in the new FF movie. My faith in Marvel movies is shaken, though I know they pooped out the Hulk, too. Spidey and the X-men were just so much better (I guess I should wait to see the movie before passing judgement...but I'm pretty sure it will suck with the modern equivalent of 90210 as the cast and Chet the asshole older brother from Weird Science (post transformation) as the Thing...).

I dunno, I guess it would be too much to have the HG in this one and GG in the next. Maybe the whole HG/GG saga could be wrapped up in one movie? (stray posted over me, heh)

Ok, my real money is on Church as Kraven!  :mrgreen:

Or maybe the robot suit for JJJ, going with that real-world...'tie-in'

The unwashed geek quotient of the forum is rising rapidly based only on this thread. Seriously people, its a movie based on a comic. I'll look forward to seeing if they don't turn it into a Lucas-like CGI-fest.

Ok, wait, Jeykl and Hyde's serum makes sense (being a well-established piece of literature) but a guy transforming into the Lizard from a serum wouldn't be? Huh? Cinematically, it could work with little trouble. The suspension of belief in the audience is already there. I mean, did tridium make any more sense to a movie goer than that? It's all mushy science jargon, with the less said, the better.

As for pathos, the Lizard would be a great tragic character, and as for CGI, Gollum in Two Towers proved it can be done. I'd love to see Raimi's take on the Lizard, though I don't hold high hopes for him with Church now cast.

Don't forget DareDevil and Elektra... actually I don't think DareDevil was badly made, but the story was totally ho-hum.

Bruce

You are posting on a internet message board about video games and run a christian blog. Cast not the first stone, son. Your comment was more worthless than Murgos' post.

Back on track, I sortakinda liked DD, but something about the story bugged me, too. Very choppy and odd. On Haemish's recommendation (http://www.f13.net/reviews.php?subaction=showfull&id=1103659336&archive=&start_from=&ucat=2&), I picked up the Director's Cut. I now like DD, that cut made it a far better movie.

If you want a really good troubled character, you can't do better in spidey's villianry than Electro. He was a pretty good character, and it would be a good visual moment when he tries to commit suicide and blacks out manhatten. He and spidey were actually allied for a while, too, so there are some interesting twists going on.

Bring back the Sinister Six, beyotch!

I don't care who the villian is; I just want to see a sexy actress as Black Cat.  Meow.

Bruce

Sigh.

I'm quick to point out when the videogame discussion gets retarded as well. The pure speculation in the thread of trying to compare of the world of comics to the mass market appeal of the big screen is a little over the top. At some point things start devolving into a peen-waving contest over comic knowledge rather than the fact that a certain actor has been chosen to star in a movie.

Maybe...but we're far from it so far. It's been a decent discussion of the various possibilities, I thought. But then, I never wave my peen (intentionally), so I guess it's hard for me to judge.

Necro post 4 the win.

Rumours have been popping up everywhere over the last couple of weeks that THC will be playing Chameleon. And that GG2 will feature, but only in a minor capacity, possibly to set up for a future film.

In other spider-man related news, since this franchise is now seen in financial circles as the only thing paying for Sony Pictures, there is no way it's going to end after part 3, as was orginally envisaged by Raimi.  Following Sony's abject failure to produce a profitable film this summer, and with little hope being held out for next year (with the exception of a Bond film, now that they've taken on MGM), spider-man is seen by many as needing to bankroll almost the whole operation.


There is some speculation that a back story will be set up for Kraven in the same way lizard was set up in SM2.


That is all.

Raimi said at one point he wanted to do 6 Spidey films.

His words were more along the lines of 'Seems Sony are going to do at least 6, hmm, I might do 4-6 after all'.

Gotta say, I don't know if Chameleon is the best villain they could pick for a Spidey film (personally I think that the Lizard could be done really well as a darker part of the franchise) but he seems like one of the easiest to translate to the big screen.

Totally Lame.

And, hopefully, totally fake.

I don't even remember the Chameleon.  :cry:

He's like Spider-Man's first villian ever. He's a Mimic/Master of Disguise, and can pretty much look like anyone he wants. Which begs the question: How much exactly of the role is Church going to play?

(http://digilander.libero.it/giannilacorte/web-spider-man/imm-chameleon.jpg)


[edit] I'd love this if he pulls a Lon Cheney, and plays a lot of the disguises himself. If it turns out more like that Denzel movie "Fallen", then not so much.

Raimi already did a movie with a "chameleon" kind of guy - Darkman - but that was much darker than the Spiderman movies ever will be. Unless they do something like the Ultimate Spider-Man's Carnage storyline (Basically, Carnage grows as a parasitic lifeform from Spiderman's blood and drains the blood from a lot of people then Gwen Stacy.)

But why not add some other heroes as well and not just villains? IIRC, the comic-book early Spiderman was disliked by the other heroes for misc reasons. Could lead to some amusing plot developments where either Spider-Man stops some other hero's act or the other way around.

Ooh, and how about some jealousy between MJ and Black Cat, the latter played by Drew Barrymore?

(http://www.spidervillain.com/Villains/Chameleon/ChameleonANN1.gif)
Ahh...Ditko! I don't think I ever read issue #1.

Spidey was great when teamed up with other heroes, great comic relief. Too bad the FF looks like an abortion, he was good with them.

Please be joking about Barrymore.

Agreed... :-P

(http://www.fflegend.com/images/news/poltergeist.jpg)

Get the woman that prayed the parole officer in Sin City.
(it was difficult to this of a actress with big breats and good)

I like Drew but she's not really bombshell material.  And MJ/BC dynamic doesn't make sense if BC isn't a bombshell.

What about the Shocker? or Rhino? :P

I dont know why people seem to think that venom would be sooo hard to do in the movies.  They could actually do venom REALLY well if they spread it out over 2 movies.

I always thought that the perfect way to do venom would be to have the setup in the first move: "Jamesons son brings symbiote back from one of his trips to space, crap happens, symbiote chooses Parker as host".  Then you have an entire movie to explain what the symbiote/new suit is, how it works, what its powers are.  I seem to recall (at least in the Spiderman animated series) that the symbiote was messing with parker's mental stability (makeing him more violent/agressive). Have spidey fight a villian in that move. Maybe the Lizard (someone he cares about is good).  Spidey needs the symbiotes added strength to fight on even footing with the Lizard.  However, the aggressive nature of the symbiote causes him to nearly kill connors in the end, rather then saveing him.  Spidey forcefully ejects the symbiote.  Wrap things up, and throw in setup for sequel movie with scene of Symbiote finding Brock.

then you have everything set up for an entire movie about Venom, where you can deal with Venom and Brock's assorted issues with Spidey/Parker, and no need to worry about background, because 90% of it was already covered mostly transparently in the progress of the previous movie.

The problem, I think, is that you go from a movie with fun action and psuedo-science in an otherwise fairly realistic world to suddenly having space aliens.  While it works within the context of the Marvel Universe, the films don't have all this other stuff going on.  There are some stories that you just can't do because of that.

Like whether or not X-Men really goes with the whole Dark Phoenix thing, I really think it'd be asking a lot of a film audience to just accept the whole Shi'ar Empire.

Nah, I would have to disagree with you there.  About the only mainstream superhero/comicbook movie franchise where aliens would be out of place would be Batman.  Pretty much any other series out there could do critters from space / galactic empries, etc with very little effort.  Hell, all you really need is a barely plausable backstory (in the case of the symbiote, who cares, I dont think anyone ever figured out what the hell it actually "was") and it works in pretty well.

I mean hell, the vast majority of the people who watch spiderman are already going to know the essentials of the character and his more well known villians / associates.  And those that dont, probably grew up with Superman (how plausible is a baby from another planet becoming earths greatest superhero anyhow? Not to mention Zod) and Wonderwoman (half Greek/Roman goddess?)   You would be surprised about exactly how far you could stretch the bounds of plausibility and not get burned for it.  All it really takes is at least a bit of believable backstory and you are set.

Now if Galactus just suddenly appeared over New York and procieded to eat skyscrapers like so much pocky, with absolutely no explanation whatsoever........

The Chameleon was a childhood friend, servant, and later revealed to be the half-brother, of Kraven.  He was also the one that set Kraven against Spider-man in the first place, so an appearance by Kraven would make sense if the Chameleon is in fact the villain.

I guess that's just where we differ.

I have no problem swallowing aliens in the Superman world, because he's already an alien.  The precedent has been set.  But Spider-Man?  Wonder Woman?  They're pretty out-there stories, but on a completely different scale.  With Spider-Man I expect to see super-science enhanced people, like the Green Goblin or Doc Oc, or Scorpion, just like I expect to see mutants in the X-Men films. But if mutants suddenly started showing up in Spider-Man 3, I and every other geek would start thinking "That's awesome!" whereas the average person who really doesn't know shit about comics (and with the huge audience the Spider-Man films have drawn, it's safe to say that most people going to it don't know the comics very well) will wonder, "What the hell is this?  I thought mutants were X-Men's thing.  Isn't that a different movie?  More importantly, what the hell makes Spider-Man so special if there are kids with super powers being born every other day?"

It kinda sucks, but it's almost impossible to start a chain of movies like this and throw in some huge world-changing event after the first one.  It's almost a deus ex machina.

That being said, they could just change the origin of the symbiote from "creature from outer space" to "creature from a lab".  Perhaps a super-soldier experiment by the government, though the Green Goblin kinda already touched on that.

Hell wasn't Venom originally some super advanced sekrit thing whipped up by Reed Richards in Secret Wars? I seem to recall they thought it was some magical thing that allowed people to replace their torn costumes and allowed Spidey to stop wearing a paper bag over his head.

Seems comics can change origin stories around all the time, I don't see why they'd have to stick with the alien backstory for the symbiote. I think it could work but it would be easier for the film to have Spidey find it in an Os Corp lab or something.

Agreed. I don't think it's just an issue with comic adaptations though. Few people want to see that kind of thing in any movie. Myths and stories really only say something when they operate within their own little microcosm. "Dracula" is a great story when it's not "Dracula vs the Wolfman vs Frankenstein". "King Kong" is totally different thing than "Godzilla vs King Kong". Or imagine a Lethal Weapon movie with the Terminator wandering the streets of L.A. It's just not going to work ("Asta la vista Riggs!").

Exactly.  The comic universes can get away with this because there are a thousand stories going on at a time, each with their own subject matter, but because they all take place in the same world/universe it's more believable that one would bleed over into another.  And they've set up since the start that this is all happening in one world, whereas the films haven't set that up- as far as we know, Spider-Man is the only superhero in the world in the films.  And that's how they treat him.

The alien backstory would take up too much time that would be hard to relate to Peter Parker's angst.

Fundamentally all Raimi spiderman films will (and should) breakdown the same way....

 - Titles (5 minutes)
 - Introduce the shitty aspect of PP's current life. (10 minutes)
 - Introduce future villian in non-villian form into PP's life as an inspiration to a better future. (10 minutes)
 - Science experiment goes wrong, creates super villian. (5 minutes)
 - Spider-man foils early villiany, PP gets no credit, angst increases. (25 minutes)
 - PP angst reaches critical point, everyone hates him, villian incidentally kicks spidey ass. (15 minutes)
 - Villian kidnaps MJ (10 minutes)
 - PP defeats angst, (20 minutes) oh, and incidentally kicks villian ass, rescues MJ. (10 minutes)
 - Epilogue (5 minutes)
 - Credits (5 minutes)

Total running time 120 minutes.

Note that the real villian is always PP angst. There won't be room for any interstellar politics that don't directly impact PP's angst. So sure, you could have venom, you could have aliens, but only if you could fit them alongside all the angst. You have at most 15 minutes to show the backstory of the aliens, and to make it relevant to Parker on a personal level. Go.

I'm not sure it has to be THAT formulaic.  Let's say the third film introduces a scientist who knows about Peter's existence as Spider-Man.  In the fourth film, he creates the symbiote to amplify Peter's powers and make like more convenient.  It would be fun and simple to create a steroids-like story from that, where Spider-Man is becoming more powerful and better at what he does, but he's losing sight of why he's doing it (becomes less interested in saving people and more interested in beating the living crap out of badguys), and really beginning to fuck up his personal life.  There might be no external villain in this film at all (except the symbiote, but in this case the symbiote appears less sentient), just entirely Peter VS Spider-Man.

Though it won't be this soon. You need to introduce a scientist who's in on Peter's secret and, possibly, another superhero who can, for example, catch an innocent falling off a building when Spider-Man ignores them to chase after the badguy.

In this formula, if there was a super villain, they'd probably be defeated quite soundly about half way through the film when Peter's angst is at its strongest and the symbiote has him at his most brutish.  The rest would be Peter coming out of it, finally shedding the symbiote at the climax.

But mostly I'd like this story to happen because I want to see how cool black Spider-Man will look in CG:
(http://www.alaph.com/spiderman/pictures/suits/suit1.jpg)

It is that formulaic, I think. It's the only part of Spider-Man that appeals on a broad level. It's the only part of Spider-Man that Stan Lee ever really tried to build the character with (same with Hulk's Frankenstein, X-Men's Race War, Batman's Revenge, etc..). Sure, it can be condensed -- But that's exactly what makes it worthwhile in films. A medium with beginnings, middles, and ends.

Then there's the other Spidey -- Serial Medium Spider-Man. Most of it is meaningless in the context of Lee's ideas about what Parker represents. I bet if he could have gotten away back then with writing only the Peter Parker aspect, then he would have done what Raimi is doing now.

I wish everyone on the internet would shut the fuck up about Venom.

I wonder if Venom could beat the Hulk in a fight.

Because Venom sucks as a villain, only eclipsed in shittiness by Carnage. Assclown villains, IMO. Sure they could be done cinematically, but why would you want to when he has so many other villains? Hell, I think the Vulture is a better villain for Spidey than Venom.

What?? How can you dislike Carnage?  He's a crazy motherfucker who just wants to kill!  He's the single most pure villain there is.  He's the absolutely standard by-the-book serial killer, given far, far more power than any human, let alone any sociopath, has a right to have.  And best of all, he never, ever has a crisis of morality.

The worst thing about Carnage, I think, is that they kept bringing him back.  Venom should have killed him at the end of the first encounter, period.  Also, he should've killed some more people who matter.

But I still liked Carnage.

(http://www.spiderfan.org/characters/images/carnage/carnage_unleashed003.jpg)

Carnage/Venom represents a period in comics that was totally lost on me. Kind of like Gambit.

Given that this is a discussion about spiderman villians, you answer your own question here.

I totally agree. I was an Xmen fan as a kid, one of my regular subscriptions. I dropped my subs when my band went on the road and when I came home for christmas, I barely recognized the Xmen...Gambit and that chick with the hoop earings, etc.

This thread and the bit about comic geeks vs the average movie audience is timely - I just watch Spidey 2 in HD last night with my girl, and she loved hearing all the comic book stuff. And damn, that movie had some good acting. It was cool seeing it from her perspective, too.

I think comic book movies run the risk of having /too/ much history, she refuses to watch SG-1 with me because she doesn't know the backstory or who the races are.

Jury's out on Browder, but I did like Black as the rogue. I missed the season open, but this week's ep wasn't bad...better than Rodney acting girly on Atlantis imo...

Black is a lot of fun.  Almost makes me regret not watching Farscape and it's muppets.

That's the problem, he's a one-note character that I can only imagine was created because they wanted to water Venom down into an anti-hero rather than a villain.

I guess I view it differently.  To me he's probably the most obviously evil character Spider-Man has ever had to deal with.  He's the evil that even other evils want to bring down.  And he's made most dangerous by the fact that he has no real motive, other than to kill and keep killing.  Usually Spider-Man villains are in it for the money (Rhino, Scorpion, Electro) or power (Kingpin).  Those first three are amoral, certainly, and greedy, but I don't know that I'd call them flat out evil.  Carnage, though?  That guy's fucking evil.

But I guess I do have to agree with the one-note analysis somewhat, because I still feel he would've been best served by only having one run.  Have him go nuts, kill a few important people, and let Venom murder him.  That would've been better than "This guy has killed dozens and dozens of people!  We better lock him up really good this time!"

What was especially stupid was his escape in Maximum Carnage, when they were saying that he had to be cut to release the symbiote and become Carnage again.  So he manages to maneuver the situation to cut himself but, uh, couldn't he have just bitten his tongue or something?

Oh God.

I'd say Norman Osborne is just as evil and more interesting although he was still dead when Carnage was created.  Vermin was pulling women off the street and eating them (seriously, for those who've never read Kraven's Last Hunt, it's one of the only Spider-man stories you'll ever need to read).  Doc Ock and the Vulture are both pretty cold blooded, and have both been shown to brutally kill people with no hesitation.  Even Tombstone is pretty evil (I love that issue in jail where he beats Robbie's friend Bruiser to death).

If Carnage and Venom is ever in a Spiderman movie, they should just make the whole thing animated and have Rob Liefield be art director...






... some things just don't belong in comics (or movies based on comics).

It's not real evil.  It's over the top, silly, cartoon evil.  Real evil is stunningly banal.  You want to see a truly evil character?  Rent Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099763/).

Heh, I happened to find Henry's friend more evil than Henry was. But yeah, good choice.

Vulture, Doc Ock and Tombstone are cold blooded, but they have motivations other than a desire to kill.  Not familiar with Vermin, and I would agree about Norman Osborne but, as you said, he was already dead.

That's the thing with the "unreasonably evil" characters.  You have to kill them off and do it quickly.  And they have to leave a mark that makes them memorable, so that they haunt the hero.

But they mishandled Carnage on several counts.  For one, Spider-Man already dealt with exactly what Carnage SHOULD have been in the Green Goblin.  Green Goblin shows up, kills Gwen Stacy, dies.  Horrible, haunting, memorable, a classic story.

You can't just repeat the same damn story, though.  So I guess that's where Carnage really failed.  They couldn't repeat the Green Goblin story so they didn't know what to do with him.  Instead, they just threw him in jail for safe-keeping until they came up with a better story later.  Then, for whatever reason, they kept breaking him out without any idea of what they wanted to accomplish by doing so.

But if the Green Goblin hadn't come around, Carnage might very well have ended up in his shoes, killing Gwen Stacy or someone else important to Peter just before he died.

I liked the symbiote costume thing.  For one, even though the red and blue costume is symbolic, the black and white was just cool.  I also liked how the suit made it's own webbing and could mimic clothing, which made the whole quick-change-into-super-hero thing flow easier for me.

Having it try to bond with PP, and then latching onto another person angry and obsessed with him was done well enough, and was a new twist that I hadn't seen before.  I liked that Brock gained intimate knowledge of parker/spider-man throught he suit, and gloated over the power he had on parker.   

It didn't get bad until afterwards when Marvel decided to milk it's new cash cow.  The stupid crazy-mouthed venom shit was the beginning of the end of anything worthwhile there, and that whole carnage thing pretty much got me to stop reading spider-man stuff.

If they did it right, I don't see why they couldn't make a great story involving the symbiote suit.  Then again, it is Hollywood.

I agree with what you said. I didn't quite make it to Carnage, stopped reading just before that.
Maybe Venom could be Johnny Knoxville or the Stiffler kid.

Best thing on page three.  Venom was explainable, the derivatives were dumb.  I blame Reed Richards.

I'm literally afraid to watch the FF movie. The FF were one of my subscriptions as a kid. (FF, X-Men, Defenders, and later Alpha Flight/New Defenders were the core of my subs).

Exactly. He has no pathos, no drama, nothing I can remotely sympathize with, or even hate. He is a one-note cardboard cutout of a villain, made ULTRAVIOLENT because that's what the cool kids like or something. Serial killers are interesting dramatically speaking because of the duality they represent. On the outside, they are calm, quiet, average guy types that you'd never notice, but inside they have this boiling storm of hate that erupts into violence periodically. There is drama in that.

Some crazy fucker gets an alien suit and goes on to kill more people? There's no surprise there. Marvel's attempts to make Venom some kind of anti-hero was even more retarded.

EDIT: And now that I've seen other people talk about it, Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer is exactly the type of thing I'm talking about. That's real evil, the evil that can be dramatized well.

Now, you can have totally, one-note evil be interesting, but not just as some ultraviolent tasmanian devil. Galactus is that kind of evil, an uncaring, all-powerful evil that does what he does for survival, but what he does is so callous and unfeeling that it's hard to sympathize with it. Until it is shown to be facing its own mortality. Or until you see it as a symbol of Reed Richard's ultimate nemesis, the ultimate extension of human augmentation into godhead through science, but without any morality, any ethics dictating what can and can't be done. Not to mention the great pathos you can achieve when you start playing Galactus off of his heralds.

But really, Carnage is just a bloody, unfunny version of the Tasmanian Devil.

So Galactus is Richards' nemesis now? When did this happen (honest question)?

Hopefully Galactus consistently kicks the shit out of him.

And what happened to Dr. Doom and the Silver Surfer in all of this?

Dr. Doom is stil his arch nemesis. But I think Galactus is up there.

I'm not sure I feel comfortable relagating Peter Parker issues to "angst".

The draw of the Spiderman/Parker character has always been that he's a relatively average guy that has to deal with average problems that are exacerbated by being Spiderman.  Though the points are sometimes beaten home with a giant, obvious cudgel (Uncle Ben dying to the guy Parker let's go) it's still true.  If Parker uses his gifts for profit,  he can't use them to help people.

When you look at the rest of the major superheroes....  

Batman and Ironman are fucking loaded.  Captain America and Superman are boyscouts with stable incomes/paid to be superheroes and no family issues.  The X-men are off in silly allegory land.  The Fantastic Four is loaded as a whole.

In making the noble choice,  Parker has to deal with the shit that means to his real life.  Patrolling as Spiderman means he can't hold down a regular job,  his grades are hurt, etc.  All I can say is that the Daily Planet must have a real fucking good vacation/personal leave policy....

It makes Parker/Spiderman the most realistic hero brought to screen.  Especially since the stories as presented by Raimi are "figuring out how to do the right thing despite the costs" not "what cool superpowered fights we can present!!!!"

How did all you comic book nerds escape the sub-forum??

I haven't read comics since the 80s.
Parker is a freelance photographer.

Spidey = Bugle
Supes = Planet

See Way...We may be comic book nerds, but not all comic book nerds are made equal.

I'm glad that I didn't catch that one. I feel better about myself already.  :-P

Blame Marvel and DC for pimping out their characters to Hollywood for movies and TV shows (not that DC has much of a choice since WB owns them).  It allows me to escape the sub-forum for small amounts of time.  

On a side note, personally I'd rather comic books remain a niche myself.  With mainstream attention comes shit like the comics code authority.

Woops.

DC sucks, anyway.

With a few exceptions like the New Gods (Kirby pwns) and some of the batman stuff (mostly Detective).

Oh, wait. Was New Gods EC? I forget. EC was cool.

Yah, I know.  My point is: 

Clark Kent can take off any time he wants for extended periods of time,  and no one seems to give a shit.  The Planet union must have some pretty heavy mob connections or something....

Parker meanwhile is getting bitched at all the time by work, mostly cause he's doing something Spidermanish.  And he's technically a Bugle independent contractor.

/shrug....  I think that a fair majority of males hit a comic book phase at some point or another when growing up.  Sort of an after cartoon and before chasing girls phase.  At least it was for me, though I still kept the Punisher subscription for a while.

Having comic films made is a fun way to relive childhood memories.  Which is, I think, why people are so divided on the Venom issue.  I seem to be near Sky's age, in that I missed the whole Venom thing and it just conjures up images of "extreme comics!11!" to me.  Which is why I lean towards the stodgy and kind of boring villains.  Vulture, Electro, Sandman, Scorpion, Kraven.

I didn't start reading comics again until last year....Last time before that was like 12. Kind of sad though -- I should have remained a comic book nerd in all of those years between. About the same time I moved on from things like that, I became a very uncool kid.

My favorite take on Clark Kent (I hate DC comics btw) was The Rock on SNL. Perfect.

I didn't know what Parker's paper was called, I had to google it.  I just remember Supe's is the planet because I recall the globe from the Superman Movies.

The only comics I've ever owned were a few TMNT Graphic Novels, Transformers and some Batman/ Detective stories from around age 16.  ;)  Oh, and the "Star Wars Tales" compilations I've recently started picking up.

Actually, Peter Parker is now a science teacher. And recently, Clark Kent was demoted from the regular staff at the Daily Planet to being a crime beat reporter in a satellite office at one of the Metropolis' PD's precints, his job replaced by Jack Ryder, who happens to be the secret identity of the Creeper. Also, he's recovering from having been mind-controlled by Max Lord and forced into almost killing Batman and Wonder Woman.

The DC Comics you remember? Yeah, that's changing. The iconic characters are being given some serious flaws lately, especially the big 3. Meanwhile, Marvel is really starting to get fucking stupid.

"I thought I was his nemesis!"

(http://metallic-frost.net/vb/media/gallery/monarch/monarch_18.jpg)

"UNDERBITE? That two-bit Doctor Doom wannabe?"

That image didn't load for me, and I misunderstood the italicized I. I thought this was Reed's new nemesis:

(http://www.prisonpotpourri.com/ROYALSandCELEBS2/slash.2004.jpg)

Remote site broken.  Here is Underbite's crotch, and Girl Hitler:

(http://wsriley.com/video/girlhitler.jpg)

Slash'd kick both their asses imo.

Speaking of 'nemesis', here's a horrible cunt:
(http://img33.exs.cx/img33/774/BrickTop.gif)

"Starting"?  I still remember the clone shenanigans of Spidey.  I'm firmly in the opinion that Marvel Comics became fucking stupid long ago.  I am biased, though, since they never had the awesomeness of Eclipso.  Now, that is how you do an EVIL, LIKE THE FRU-ITS OF THE DEVIL, villain.

Sky: never mess with a guy that owns a pig farm.  And don't worry about the suger in his tea, Bricktop is sweet enough.

Marvel is getting back to where they were in the 90's (which is bad, and was about the time I stopped reading most comics for several years).  There's some good stuff still coming out of there though.  The recent G.L.A. mini for instance,i was probably one of the best things I've read in recent years, partly because it does a good job of poking fun at shit like Disassembled and Identity Crisis, while telling a good story about the biggest underdog team in the MU.

For pretty much the first time ever though, I'm reading DC stuff on a regular basis.  They've had their stupidity in the past too (Superman dies, Batman's back is broken, Green Lantern goes crazy and murders people), and I think when all is said and done despite the general quality of the stories, Infinite Crisis is really going to wear on people due to it's length.

Really though, I just try and follow the writers I like rather than the characters or the companies.

I remember, just after I had gotten out of collecting comics, when Supes died. People were lined up to buy dozens of the issue, same folks who would buy a dozen first issues of a series. It's when they started releasing the rare covers with gold foil and all that nonsense. It really became a ridiculous scene that wasn't at all about the art and stories, but about commodity.

Marvel had managed to unfuck itself after the whole Spidey clone/foil cover thing. They went back to good writing (instead of shallow-ass artfaggery), stopped putting so much hype and variant covers out, etc. It was when Quesada first became EIC. They brought in guys like Bendis (whose Daredevil run is spectacular), Grant Morrison (whose X-Men run is only rivaled by Whedon's Astonishing X-Men and Claremont/Byrne's initial run on the book), etc. But it has all gone to shit in just over a year since the X-Men reboot. They've backtracked on just about everything good they were doing, including fucking continuity to hell and back, dropping asstons of variant covers, and hyping the shit out of lazy books like New Avengers and House of M and Phoenix: Endsong.

Okay, bad enough that they're actually putting Venom into the movie.

But Eric Fucking Foreman?    Sweet fancy Moses, is this thing ever going to suck.

What's the source for this? I've seen a lot of stupid stuff going around the boards but nothing that quotes Sam or Columbia Pictures.

I'm going off of an article linked from Fark (which is, of course, of dubious reliability to begin with) that I can't get to reload now because it looks as if their server's melted.  Possibly bullshit, yeah, but I can easily see them throwing in Venom because of all the retards who liked that character.

Supposedly the rumor is that Grace is Venom and that there will be no Chameleon (this rumor disses that rumor  :roll:). Instead, Hayden Church will be Sandman. Also, Franco will be.....Hobgoblin.

http://www.freezedriedmovies.com/news/index.php?Action=Full&NewsID=3355

Church is cool. Sandman is cool. Grace...I like him....But Venom still sucks.

Still, Raimi would be going back on a lot of his words if Venom was actually in this.

I didn't post this crap because Raimi has always been against Venom and I doubt he'd cave in now.

Until I see some stills from shooting or pre-production costumes, I call bullshit on this rumor.

Isn't he a bit on the small side to pass as Eddie Brock?

I will say though....IF Venom were in it, then I'd be OK with that in one sense: That at least I would know that Raimi was directing. If anyone can make Venom look like a worthy addition to the films, then it's him. In a way, the character's rabidness plays to a lot of Raimi's strengths.

Maybe he's been working out as much as Carrottop.

Let's get Carrot Top to be Carnage!

SWEET!

He does look more like Tobey Maguire than any other actor.  With the possible exception of Tobey Maguire.

The problem being that Eddie Brock doesn't look much like Parker...
(http://www.spiderfan.org/characters/images/venom/eddie_brock.jpg)

This is true.  Maybe they're going for a different , though, having Eddie be Peter's evil twin like Venom is Spidey's evil twin.  That's the only sensible explanation I can think of, anyway.

Assuming that this rumor isn't complete bullshit, of course.

This ISN'T a FIFY - but it makes a point.  Bendis hated venom and carnage and swore he'd never write them into Ultimate Spiderman.

It wasn't 5 books before they appeared.

Fuck you retarded people that think Venom or Carnage is in anyway interesting.  Fuck you right in your immature little asses.

Jake Gylenhal (sp?)

Sounds more like it.

Sidenote (because Venom is just that interesting):

Did you ever notice that some actors are sometimes under threat from a weird doppleganger/counterpart? Sometimes the doppleganger comes out on top, and you never see the original again.

Jake and Toby is an example. So far, Toby is holding his ground.

Here's another:

The squeeky blondes: Joey Lauren Adams/Renee Zelwegger

Joey was hotter, had more parts at one time, then all of a sudden, Zelwegger comes along and Adams is no more.

Another:

The Goofy "Everyman": Michael Keaton/Tom Hanks

Tom Hanks killed Keaton (Something I'd like to see rectified btw).

Then, there's just pathetic attempts:

Skeet Ulrich/Johnny Depp

No Contest. Ulrich was DOA.

Note: The above is the kind of the post that makes Signe cry.

Including Venom in any Spiderman pic is about as stupid as Tim Burton's ideas on Superman having transparent skin or some shit.

Not to mention Burton wanting Nicholas Cage to play him too.

I have to say I enjoyed Venom when he first came in. As far as I remember he didnt have the lust for brains that the newer venom had. I also liked that Spidey and Venom settled their differences in the end, and came to a mutual "Dont fuck with me, I wont fuck with you". I also enjoyed Carnage, since he was one of the first villians that was just batshit insane. He didnt want to take over the world, or have some diabolical plan. He didnt want to get rich. He straight up wanted to kill people, and he did. a lot.

I do think that after that first story arch, both Carnage and Vemon got a bit overplayed, and now are kind of "Meh". I also think that they dont belong in the Spider-man movies. It would be WAY to hard to keep to the original character creation, what with spidey and the x-men going to space and all that.

This discussion.. I've seen it before, somewhere.. Hrmm.

Spider-Man. He is everywhere. Like Elvis.

Actually, there's not enough Elvis talk on these boards.

What's with the Venom hate? Granted I haven't read many spiderman comics in my days, but Venom always struck me as a slightly funny, badass looking villain. I'd say he ranks number 2 after Vulture in my book.

Convoluted. Peter Parker was always best as the young, smartass (and unappreciated) crime fighter in New York City. The whole cosmic story arc that set the stage for Venom is so out of the place, that it may as well not be Spider-Man. It's just as stupid and out of place as the "Spidermobile" (http://www.samruby.com/Spiderverse/Spidermobile/SpidermobileSpidey.gif). Originally, he was one of the more "down to earth" heroes. When writers would take him beyond that, it would always suck. Venom is like the culmination of everything that is stupid in Spider-Man writing.

Angst. The fucking WWF's version of a villian. Just stupid one dimensional shit all around (moreso with Carnage).

Thirdly, there's shittons of Spidey villians to talk about (40 years worth), but the only thing most kids born after say, 1984, seem to know is Venom (either that, or Carnage).....To the point that they consider him Spider-Man's "nemesis".....Which makes older fans hate him even more.

Too bad Haemish doesn't post much on weekends. He'd be much better at this.

Bah, The Phantom would kick all their asses...

On a sidenote I think Topher Grace can probably pull of a good performance in Spidey 3, I enjoyed In Good Company after I got over him not playing a star wars nerd from the 70's.

I should probably mention: I read somewhere that the Ultimate Spider-Man rewrites of all of this stuff is much better. I've only read the first tpb, so I wouldn't know. Anyone care to comment?

I felt exactly the same.  They didn't agree with me.  But for the exact same conversation, you can check out this thread. (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=2636.msg106184#msg106184)

Some how I missed that thread. I agree there are a TON of better villians for the movie. The only thing is, some of them come off looking very cheesy when the move to live action. One that I do like is Lizardman because he has a back story and it fits well with the feel of Spider-Man. Another thing, since we are doing this topic again. I think Kirsten Dunst was a horrible choice for Mary Jane. Its not that I dont like her, or that she is a bad actress, thats just not how I picture her at all.

Man, I remember when I was collecting comics in the late 80s.  I didn't amass a great collection or anything.  I followed a few titles, but I did pick up a bunch of those #1s!!! when they were releasing all sorts of new series.  I recently logged the comics I had collected and checked prices on the internet and they were worth nothing.  Goddamn them!

Back in the day I was mostly a Marvel guy, though I would buy Detective Comics too.  Nowadays, watching Justice League has had me interested in comics again.  But the thing is that I realized the Justice League epsiodes I liked most were those dealing with massive threats.  Alien invasions, hugely powered superbeings, etc.  That sort of gets me thinking about buying DC more than Marvel.

Yeah I started recollecting comic books at that exact same time, having gotten out of school and gotten a job so I had disposable income to waste on such things. I blame Upper Deck for the whole speculative crazy that caused the comic book market to boom and then crash. They started it all with their sports cards introducing cards with higher production values, "chase" cards, rapid introducton of product, and other new at the time marketing techniques. The huge success of Upper Deck caused other many companies including comic book publishers to follow suit.

Topher Grace and Thomas Haden Church threads merged.

Started collecting comics at around age 10, which looking back, would have made it 1982.  I stopped when I was 16 or so.  I have exactly two, count 'em, two comics that are actually worth anything.  Groo the Wanderer #1, before he went over to Marvel and The Tick #1.  That's really all I have to show for 6 years of hardcore collecting.  Frankly you'd be better off going the plaster caster route if you want to make money collecting stuff.

Ive never collected comics for any reason but to read.

As to Ultimate Spider Man?

Overall it is VASTLY superior to regular Marvel Spidey.  Cept for Gwen Stacy's death.  Which was massive retardation.
The only good thing is TEH ANGST lead Pete and MJ to break up, and he is now seeing Kitty Pryde of the X Men which
is just so gosh darn CUTE.  (Oh god im getting old.)

The Ultimate universe is better as a whole anyhow. Hell, they killed Gambit, which is cause for dancing in the streets!

I have the first 8 or so Captain Planet comics.

Also, I have a few Flash comics, including the first Special Edition one, based on the ill-fortuned TV show.

I have a really old Batman and Aquaman comic, from the 50's.

...

You just wait and see how they fuck up the death of Jean DeWolff.  It'll be great....

Sweet.  I love it when Scottish people say "It'll be great."

Venom is the afterbirth and placenta of the retarded love child of Todd McFarlane and Rob Liefeld. They created him with a mixture of the sheer stupid of Wolverine and the super-duper cool of DA UL-TRA-VIOLINZZZ!!! Not only was he a one-note character without a shred of dramatic potential, he made an interesting part of Spider-Man's history (the black suit) into something so stupid and overexposed, not even extra-special 15-variant cover collector's editions could worsen its insipidness. The addition of Carnage on top of that was the straw that broke the camel's back, the veritable masturbatory fantasy of the special needs child in the corner, amused with its own filth. Like many of the comics of the time, it was all surface and shiney and "it's cool to be grim without reason" and none of the more interesting qualities of villains such as the Green Goblin. Venom was so over the top, it made Spider-Man's other villains seem silly by comparison, which meant that those villains got put through a period of being portrayed with contempt.

In MMOG terms, Venom was the Dawn of Spider-Man's villains.

Or what would eventually become the Image style.

What Haemish said.

The trouble with Venom (speaking as someone who was reading that storyline avidly) was that the two characters (suit and Brock) were really built up.  Once they were defeated, it wasn't so easy just to sweep em under the crapet*.  They (and we have to blame McFarlane here, because he's a cock) just kept revisiting the Venom character because they thought it was interesting and connected with the youth.  Which was bollocks.  They just liked McFarlanes Artwork and the way he drew MJ - which was occasionally tied up with webbing.  Yes, it was that bad.

The fact that Venom/Carnage appeared in something that's been written so well as the USM is a travesty.  The double fact that it took the serious issue of Gwen's death and turned it into Carnage sucking her clit dry to death was just the end as far as I was concerned.  I don't buy 'em anymore.

*(yes, that was a spelling error, but it makes so much sense I'm leaving it there)

Kirsten Dunst, professional moron. (http://www.idontlikeyouinthatway.com/2005/09/kirsten-dunst-is-unbelievably-stupid.html)

?

She confirmed year old rumors. Really, who gives a shit. At $10M a movie, she's not paid to think.

I couldn't read the article in the link. I kept wondering who the background image was....Jolie?

After going back and reading my Ultimate Spider-Man graphic novel, Topher Grace actualy makes a perfict Eddy Brook. The only trouble is that so far the Spider-Man moves seem to be following much more the original storyline, not the Ultimate line. Honestly I dont think it bodes well.

Back in 1990, the senior English teacher (yeah, small school) at my school had a project where the kids would have to write a letter to a celeb or something.  This guy who was a year ahead of me wrote to McFarlane, because he was a Spidey fan.  The guy got a handwritten letter, from McFarlane, sent back to him, with a drawing of Spidey on the bottom half of the page.

Now that shit HAS to be worth something.

I haven't read Ultimate Spider-Man.  How is Ultimate Venom different, if at all?

Venom confirmed ?!

Fucking hell.


It's going to suck almost as much as SWG.

To be clear, I love the Sandman.  Hell, in later issues, they really built him into a worthwhile and sympathetic character.  In Ultimate, he's also quite fascinating.  (I love the Sinister Six Story with Silver Sable and the Sandman.  It was luv.)

But Venom.

Oh Fuck.

Kill me now please.

I find myself hoping over and over again that Venom will be in for maybe 30 mins before he gets wtfpwned in some manner, just to get the people who keep saying "OMG PUT IN VENOM! THAT'D BE AWESOME!!!" to shut the fuck up.  (I heard similar comments from folks walking down the hall while waiting for my wife to get out of the restroom after seeing both movies.)

It's a futile hope, I know, but it's all I've got.

Yay. Venom is in the movies. I am so excited.

I had to put that in green, because we don't have a specified VOMIT color. Motherfucking cockbags. Please let Venom be wtfpwnedbbqed quickly. I DO NOT WANT TO SEE THIS CHARACTER FOR 2 FUCKING HOURS.

I don't know why they do that. Everyone knows you can build a good movie around a single villain (e.g. Spiderman 2 is luv). Add more and you risk diluting things by shifting the focus a lot. It somewhat worked in Batman Returns, but that was because Max Shreck moved into the background most of the time after the beginning, and because Catwoman was more anti-hero (and the mandatory love interest) than villain. Oh, and because DeVito got the best lines.
Ah, back on track: Doesn't the non-Ultimate Spiderman genesis of Venom require the alien symbiote suit from Secret Wars? How are they going to get around that?

Why two villains who both can morph into wrecking forces of evil? It's almost as you start begging for them to use Mysterio instead.

Whee! Colored text is cool again!

(http://www.hamusutaa.net/lukebday/garland-sneer.jpg)

 :roffle:

(http://www.thom.org/photos/GAPLpeanut.jpg)

Word. She's hawt and she's got a punk band.

In Ultimate Spider-Man Eddy Brook is a skinny little weeny a few years older than peter. Their fathers worked together and created the "Venom" suit. Unlinke the original Venom suit that was just black spandix, in the Ultimate its the suit that makes Venom "buff" not the man underneath.

Seeing as I cant seem to find a picture anywhere. I suck.

Why does Marvel Ultimate stuff make me want to poke forks in my eyes?

And Ultimate Venom is just plain evil instead of "Protecting justice by eating the brains of the evil"?

Necropost and all that:

Thomas Haden Church as Flint Marko, aka: The Sandman

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/topnews.php?id=11866
http://spiderman.sonypictures.com/

Frag it, he looks the part. Who knew? The simpleton mechanic in "Wings" has come a long way.

Heh. This whole time I was thinking it was the other guy from Sideways. Woops.

He looks good with it.

Between him and Gobby, I see no need for Venom whatsoever.

/obvious.

That picture just shows how stupid that costume is. But then, most comic book movies prove that over and over. I still love the line in X-Men, "What should we wear? Yellow and blue spandex?"

I always like Sandmans outfit.  It wasn't a uniform, just the shit he was wearing when he got sanded.

And he never needed to change because, you know, he was made out of fucking sand.

There should be a Catwoman vs Sandman crossover. "You're my litterbox, bitch!"

Not the Hale Berry catwoman...that's on HBO now, we checked out about 10 minutes of it out of curiosity...ohmyfuck. That's....real bad.

You have no idea how bad it can be.

Hey, if I open a door and a midget is sodomizing an amputee, I shut that fucking door quick.

"quick" is subjective.

Now imagine if he'd been sanded on laundry day.  "Fuck, now I'm stuck wearing this goddamned Journey ttour '85 T-shirt and the sweatshorts with the goddamned hole in the crotch."

The pastels-and-leather Batman and Robin was made for gay men, of course lesbians needed a movie, too, so they made Catwoman. What's the big deal?

Lesbians already had their movie with Tank Girl.

Mmmmmm, Naomi Watts with dyed black hair in the sand shower.

Excuse me for a moment.

That movie made me a lesbian, too.