f13.net

Circumcision 'helps to halt HIV' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4719409.stm)

Last Updated: Tuesday, 26 July, 2005, 18:59 GMT 19:59 UK

New research suggests circumcision could be effective in preventing the spread of HIV among men.

The study of more than 3,000 men in South Africa was done by the French agency for Aids and Viral Hepatitis.

The data, outlined at a conference in Brazil, shows male circumcision prevented about seven of 10 infections.

UN health agencies have cautioned that more trials are necessary before they will recommend this as a method to protect against Aids.

Previous studies have suggested that men who are circumcised have a lower rate of HIV infection.

It is thought that the cells of the foreskin are much more susceptible to HIV than cells on other parts of the penis, so by removing the foreskin, the likelihood of infection drops.

Further trials are being carried out in Uganda and Kenya to measure the effect of circumcision on other populations.

If similar results are found, then circumcision could be used alongside condoms to prevent the spread of HIV, the BBC's Ania Lichtarowicz reports from the conference in Rio de Janeiro.

But implementing this measure on a large scale will be complicated, our correspondent says.

She says that ensuring safe techniques and changing cultural and social attitudes towards male circumcision will prove challenging.

Why not bagels, lox, and cream cheese for the Jews?

Aren't Christians circumcised also? WHy does everythig hafta be a conspiracy? What are all the food references?

Especially Swedish people.

Aren't Christians circumcised also?

Aren't Christians circumcised also? WHy does everythig hafta be a conspiracy? What are all the food references?

(Not sure how it ended up so popular in America...)

Especially Swedish people.

By "trim" I thought they meant something else.

I'm sure everyone's penis, trimmed or untrimmed, is equally lovely.

What the fuck is a metrosexually trimmed cock?

In the conspiracy department, one of the pediatricians swarming around my son's birth was Jewish.  We had said the whole time that we didn't want a circumcision.  Several times, in fact.  So he comes around and says something about taking Sam off for the snip and we say that we aren't doing that.  I swear, five minutes later, he's about to wheel the little guy off like we had not said anything.  More timid parents might have let him get away with it, but we bluntly said something like "we said NO circumcision".

As Ali-G would say: "Shaving the goolies."

Also possibly in the TMI category, that's more or less what happened when I was born, except I don't know about the Jewish part.  All my mother told me is that she had to keep fighting off some nurse who was holding a scalpel and eyeing my wang eagerly.

Circumcision at its peak it was performed on over 90% of American males, often without ever asking the parents (I believe until lawsuits began forcing hospitals to ask permission first.)

I think the number is now more like 60%, as people come to realize that there is no point to it--in fact, the 'diseases' it was largely meant to 'cure' were thought to be caused by masturbation in the late 19th century.

That was the whole original point of mass clippings...to stop them kiddos from spanking the monkey.  Somewhere along the line it ballooned into becoming the norm, so that you were the freak if you weren't cut.

You don't see Christians trying to baptize every little kid for "medical reasons" do you?

There are many wonderful things to share about Jewish culture, but for some reason, the one that has come into the collective conscious the most is circumcision?

1 Many older men, who have bladder or prostate gland problems, also develop difficulties with their foreskins due to their surgeon's handling, cleaning, and using instruments. Some of these patients will need circumcising. Afterwards it is often astonishing to find some who have never ever seen their glans (knob) exposed before!

2 Some older men develop cancer of the penis - about 1 in 1000 - fairly rare, but tragic if you or your son are in that small statistic. Infant circumcision gives almost 100% protection, and young adult circumcision also gives a large degree of protection.

3 Cancer of the cervix in women is due to the Human Papilloma Virus. It thrives under and on the foreskin from where it can be transmitted during intercourse. An article in the British Medical Journal in April 2002 suggested that at least 20% of cancer of the cervix would be avoided if all men were circumcised. Surely that alone makes it worth doing?

smeg·ma (smgm)
n.

A sebaceous secretion, especially the whitish cheesy secretion that collects under the prepuce of the penis or around the clitoris.

The fact you have to clean Under Something freaks me out enough.

The fact that advocating we cut off an area of the genitals for anything other than religious beliefs freaks me out.

Hey, but if you're into that. Enjoy the smegma. For those of you completely not in the know:




Gee, thanks for the enlightenment! (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/3776/sound/givesmeg.wav)

Also, when was the last time you saw an uncut guy in porn?

Advocating anything with the word "belief" in it doesn't freak you out?

Some of you may be wondering if I just went there. Well, I did.

[/internetretardslapfight]

Never in those with higher production values. But the low-budget stuff....

Enjoy the smegma. For those of you completely not in the know:

Why the hell would we born that way then? Is it like the groin's equivalant of wisdom teeth or the appendix?

Nothing like trimming off a girl's clitoris to get rid of those pesky sebaceous secretions, eh?

For fun:

1 Many older men, who have bladder or prostate gland problems, also develop difficulties with their foreskins due to their surgeon's handling, cleaning, and using instruments. Some of these patients will need circumcising. Afterwards it is often astonishing to find some who have never ever seen their glans (knob) exposed before!

2 Some older men develop cancer of the penis - about 1 in 1000 - fairly rare, but tragic if you or your son are in that small statistic. Infant circumcision gives almost 100% protection, and young adult circumcision also gives a large degree of protection.

The den is too good for this thread.  Just make it go away.

It's been a suprisingly mature discussion, all things considered.

But if you REALLY want it to go away, I could tell an old wallet/suitcase joke (and even throw in a clever magic trick while I'm at it) :evil:.

This is inevitably headed towards a posting of who's cut and who is not, which can't lead to anything good.

Wikipedia has a good discussion. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_analysis_of_circumcision)

Medical or not, it's a pretty harmless procedure if done right. Unless the wife objects, I intend our kids to have it done, because it was done to me and I've never missed it.

This thread makes me cry for the little children.   :cry:  As far as I know, they're not even given anything to dull the pain.  It's believed that some infants don't even cry but it's probably because of shock. Can anyone actually believe that it doesn't cause incredible pain?  Sorry, I just can't bear the thought of putting children, who are much to young to voice their objections, through such a painful experience.  I just don't see the point. 

So be kind.  Help your son get head.

Umm...Yeah, I've never had a blowjob.  :roll:

Well, just because you don't remember being tortured by a big man with scissors as an infant, doesn't mean it didn't have an affect on your personality.  I wonder if the having your foreskin suddenly whacked off raises your chances of becoming a serial killer?

That "rolls eyes" thing is my version of "green text".

I assumed so, but I figured it was a good place for a PSA. These are important issues we are dealing with!

Umm...Yeah, I've never had a blowjob.  :roll:

I didn't say you couldn't get one, but it's easier if you're driving the sports model.

Thus the "Help your son get head" instead of "Allow your son to get head"

It mostly just raises your chances of becoming a banker.

Mutilation implies a crippling. Which isn't even remotely near what we were discussing.

Bras On 45
By Ivor Biggun


Bra size fourty-five, Bra size fourty-five,
Bra size fourty-five, Bra size fourty-five

Well I went out for a boogie, a week ago last Tuesday
I was doing the Wigan Hustle and the Palais Glide
I met a girl in big suspenders and her boswams were stupendous
Like two bald-headed men sitting side by side

She wore a bra size fourty-five, and she could jump and jive
And when she stopped dancing, bits of her kept wobbling about
She said you drive me crazy, burn some rubber on me Baby
She grabbed my little whistle and she began to shout...

Hit me with your rhythm stick, Hit me, Hit me
Je t'adore, Ich lebe dick,  Hit me, Hit me, Hit me
Hit me with your rhythm stick, I'm six feet tall and five feet thick
Hit me, Hit me, Hit me...

Bra size fourty-five, Bra size fourty-five

I couldn't do nothing but stand and stare, she gave a hug like a grizzly bear
I couldn't see much, I thought I was dead, I had boobs upside my head
Boobs upside my head, boobs upside my head

Oh what a front she had, enough for me, my brother and Dad
A chest of drawers no doubt, one with the top drawer half pulled out
Oh what a front she'd got, believe me son, she'd got the lot
Right before my eyes, and she was bra size fourty-five

Erm, excuse me, what do I do now?
Man be cool - gotta get down and have a rap
I beg your pardon? I think I'll do a talking bit instead...

She was the big economy size, her boswams were gigantic
Like two fat little boys, wrestling under a blanket
The flickering strobes lit up the globes that thrust from her pullover
I think her name was June 'cos she was busting out all over
She said "Can you feel the force, do y'wanna take one step beyond?"
I said "Goodness gracious great balls of fire, there's a whole lotta shaking going on"
She said "Knock on wood, I'll blame it on the boogie, now what do ya think about that?"
I said "Ooh heck, it must be jelly, cos jam don't shake like that"
Not so much of the night fever, more like a belt with a tyre lever
She was not at all pendulous, in fact she was tremendulous

Bra size fourty-five, Bra size fourty-five,
Bra size fourty-five, Bra size fourty-five

She wore a bra size fourty-five, and when they played 'I will survive'
She went crackers, and her animal desires became much keener
She said "John I'm only dancing, but I'd rather be romancing"
She had me inside out and upside down in the back of my Cortina

Hit me with your rhythm stick...

And there in my car, the windows all steamed up, I thought I would drown,
She let it all hang out in bras (size fourty-five)
And there in my car, I thought "this is it", an instant replay,
My foot out the window in bras (size fourty-five)

Oo-rah, Oo-rah, Oo-rah, ay,
Over the hills and now I'm on my way
I got out my tent pole and chewed her [Tempole Tudor]
Oo-rah, Oo-rah, Oo-rah, ay,
Over the hills and now I'm on my way
Come on, let's do the Bristol Stomp

She wore a bra size fourty-five, I thought I never would revive
When I tackled that young lady with the bounciest of blouses
But she left me for a geezer who had much more chance to please her
With his own master blaster and a pair of baggy trousers

Oh what fun they had...

Bra size fourty-five, Bra size fourty-five,
Bra size fourty-five, Bra size fourty-five

Ich libe dick

You love dick?  :evil:

Kinko, Kinko, the kid loving clown,
if the kids just love me back,
I'll never wear a frown.

Kinko's in his kinko car,
pockets full of change,
lots of dirty pictures and sticky candycanes.

All the kids love Kinko for the presents that they get,
silly leather clothes to wear and happy cigarettes.

Hi boys and girls!!
My name is Kinko the Clown and I really love you boys and girls.. really... really... hehe

We go to Kinko's club house sometimes after school,
we play in Kinko's crawl space,
there's never any rules.

We have to sit on Kinko's lap,
there's never any chairs,
Kinko likes to tickle us and give us funny stares!

'Mommy! Mommy! Kinko hurt me!'

Aw, but that was in Indianapolis and thanks to the liberal reciprocity laws,
Kinko can be with you boys and girls today or anytime...

Jimmy Johnson ran away and didn't say goodbye,
Kinko went to look for him and help the FBI.

But Kinko had some handcuffs on,
his eyes were full of tears,
said, 'I'll be back to play with you,
sometime in twenty years...' awwwwww!!

Kinko, Kinko the kid loving clown,
your parents want to beat me up and run me out of town.

Kinko, Kinko the kid loving clown,
tar and feather Kinko and run him out of town!

The lollipop man has a great big stick,
He charges the kids only a penny a lick.
He gets it out whenever he can,
He’s a dirty old bugger, he’s the lollipop man!

Willy Wonka makes
Everything he bakes
Satisfying and delicious
Talk about your childhood wishes
All you Hungry sons of bitches.

We got gushin' gonads, tingling tushes
Hairy balls and hairy bushes
S & M, whips and chains
Pregnant ladies with menstrual pains
We got hand jobs and nipple tweaks
Finger bangs and slappin' cheeks
We got rape, necro & both ways
And lots of hung studs for all you gays
We got incest & bestiality too
We got Sade & the sweetest taboo
We got girls who'll eat your pee and poo
And guys who'd love to fuck your shoe
There's she-males, lezbos, & shaved beav
And D-cup mamas with so much cleave
Senior citizens who love to watch
And sniff those skid marks from your crotch - yeah!

Ain't got no woman next to me
I just got this magazine
And what's on the TV screen
But that's okay with me

(I really hope you're joking here).

City Questions Circumcision Ritual After Baby Dies (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/26/nyregion/26circumcise.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1125331404-vug4wk9Dm6ev2JwY/4p8wA)

By ANDY NEWMAN
Published: August 26, 2005

A circumcision ritual practiced by some Orthodox Jews has alarmed city health officials, who say it may have led to three cases of herpes - one of them fatal - in infants. But after months of meetings with Orthodox leaders, city officials have been unable to persuade them to abandon the practice.

The city's intervention has angered many Orthodox leaders, and the issue has left the city struggling to balance its mandate to protect public health with the constitutional guarantee of religious freedom.

"This is a very delicate area, so to speak," said Health Commissioner Thomas R. Frieden.

The practice is known as oral suction, or in Hebrew, metzitzah b'peh: after removing the foreskin of the penis, the practitioner, or mohel, sucks the blood from the wound to clean it.

It became a health issue after a boy in Staten Island and twins in Brooklyn, circumcised by the same mohel in 2003 and 2004, contracted Type-1 herpes. Most adults carry the disease, which causes the common cold sore, but it can be life-threatening for infants. One of the twins died.

Since February, the mohel, Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer, 57, has been under court order not to perform the ritual in New York City while the health department is investigating whether he spread the infection to the infants.

Pressure from Orthodox leaders on the issue led Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and health officials to meet with them on Aug. 11. The mayor's comments on his radio program the next day seemed meant to soothe all parties and not upset a group that can be a formidable voting bloc: "We're going to do a study, and make sure that everybody is safe and at the same time, it is not the government's business to tell people how to practice their religion."

The health department, after the meeting, reiterated that it did not intend to ban or regulate oral suction. But Dr. Frieden has said that the city is taking this approach partly because any broad rule would be virtually unenforceable. Circumcision generally takes place in private homes.

Dr. Frieden said the department regarded herpes transmission via oral suction as "somewhat inevitable to occur as long as this practice continues, if at a very low rate."

The use of suction to stop bleeding dates back centuries and is mentioned in the Talmud. The safety of direct oral contact has been questioned since the 19th century, and many Orthodox and nearly all non-Orthodox Jews have abandoned it. Dr. Frieden said he hoped the rabbis would voluntarily switch to suctioning the blood through a tube, an alternative endorsed by the Rabbinical Council of America, the largest group of Orthodox rabbis.

But the most traditionalist groups, including many Hasidic sects in New York, consider oral suction integral to God's covenant with the Jews requiring circumcision, and they have no intention of stopping.

"The Orthodox Jewish community will continue the practice that has been practiced for over 5,000 years," said Rabbi David Niederman of the United Jewish Organization in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, after the meeting with the mayor. "We do not change. And we will not change."

David Zwiebel, executive vice president of Agudath Israel, an umbrella organization of Orthodox Jews, said that metzitzah b'peh is probably performed more than 2,000 times a year in New York City.

The potential risks of oral suction, however, are not confined to Orthodox communities. Dr. Frieden said in March that the health department had fielded several calls from panicked non-Orthodox parents who had hired Hasidic mohels unaware of what their services entailed.

Defenders of oral suction say there is no proof that it spreads herpes at all. They say that mohels use antiseptic mouthwash before performing oral suction, and that the known incidence of herpes among infants who have undergone it is minuscule. (The city's health department recorded cases in 1988 and 1998, though doctors in New York, as in most states, are not required to report neonatal herpes.)

Dr. Kenneth I. Glassberg, past president of the New York section of the American Urological Association and director of pediatric urology at Morgan Stanley Children's Hospital of New York-Presbyterian, said that while he found oral suction "personally displeasing," he did not recommend that rabbis stop using it.

"If I knew something caused a problem from a medical point of view," said Dr. Glassberg, whose private practice includes many Hasidic families, "I would recommend against it."

But Rabbi Moshe Tendler, a microbiologist and professor of Talmud and medical ethics at Yeshiva University, said that metzitzah b'peh violates Jewish law.

"The rule that's above all rules in the Torah is that you cannot expose or accept a risk to health unless there is true justification for it," said Dr. Tendler, co-author of a 2004 article in the journal Pediatrics that said direct contact posed a serious risk of infection.

"Now there have been several cases of herpes in the metro area," he said. "Whether it can be directly associated with this mohel nobody knows. All we're talking about now is presumptive evidence, and on that alone it would be improper according to Jewish law to do oral suction."

The inconsistent treatment of Rabbi Fischer himself indicates the confusion metzitzah b'peh has sown among health authorities, who typically regulate circumcisions by doctors but not religious practitioners.

In Rockland County, where Rabbi Fischer lives in the Hasidic community of Monsey, he has been barred from performing oral suction. But the state health department retracted a request it had made to Rabbi Fischer to stop the practice. And in New Jersey, where Rabbi Fischer has done some of his 12,000 circumcisions, the health authorities have been silent.

Rabbi Fischer's lawyer, Mark J. Kurzmann, said that absent conclusive proof that the rabbi had spread herpes, he should be allowed to continue the practice. Rabbi Fischer said through Mr. Kurzmann that the twin who died and the Staten Island boy both had herpes-like rashes before they were circumcised and were seen by a pediatrician who approved their circumcision. The health department declined to comment on its investigation.