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Title: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Shockeye on June 13, 2005, 06:38:06 PM It seems there's a patch out there (http://www.gtagarage.com/mods/show.php?id=28) for the PC version of GTA: San Andreas to "unlock" sex.
I have no idea if it works or not since I don't have the game. Remember, if you're going to play, play safe. Quote ============================================ Author : PatrickW (patrickw@gtagames.nl) Co-Authors : Craig Kostelecky Hammer83 ============================================ rating : 18+ ============================================ With this mod you will be able to unlock the uncensored interactive sex-games with your girlfriends in San Andreas. Rockstar build all this stuff in the game, but decided to disable it in their final release for unknown reasons. And now this mod enables these sex-games again, so now you can enjoy the full experience. This package contains two versions of this mod: * the quick action version, that will bring you quickly to the action, but may spoil your gameplay. * the gameplay friendly version, that will show you the action, but doesn't influence the game-play. Now you must play the game until you unlock a girlfriend and get her to go drink coffee with you. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: schild on June 13, 2005, 06:43:24 PM Stupid.
Oh, and I bet it's not nearly as good as the God of War one. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Samwise on June 13, 2005, 06:52:52 PM I got the first girlfriend up past 50% yesterday, so "coffee" is a sure thing at this point. I'll give this a whirl. I'm sure it'll be entertaining at least once.
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Shockeye on June 13, 2005, 06:59:38 PM I got the first girlfriend up past 50% yesterday, so "coffee" is a sure thing at this point. I'll give this a whirl. I'm sure it'll be entertaining at least once. I salute you, sir. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Samwise on June 13, 2005, 08:08:36 PM All right, I used the version of the mod that works on existing savegames so as not to have to do any work, and it worked like a charm. The sex minigame is better than the gym minigame or the dance minigame, I'll give it that. And yes, it's pretty explicit. I can see why they cut it from the game, since it would've earned it an AO rating for sure.
The minigame consists of pushing the up and down keys in time with CJ's thrusts. If you match the rhythm, the "excitement" meter goes higher and the rhythm gets faster, until you... um... win. You can also switch positions (three to choose from, guess which ones) and camera angles, though I don't think this has any impact on the "game" as such. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Signe on June 13, 2005, 08:18:52 PM WOO HOO! [/color][/size]Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Shockeye on June 13, 2005, 09:35:10 PM Should I even be asking if there's any Dirty Sanchez action?
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: schild on June 13, 2005, 09:36:41 PM I bet you can hit 'a' to fruitbasket.
Affleck puts the 'a' in fruitbasket. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Shockeye on June 13, 2005, 09:39:30 PM Affleck puts the 'a' in fruitbasket. No, he puts his nuts on Kevin Smith. (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=3622.0) Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Daydreamer on June 14, 2005, 01:08:17 AM The minigame consists of pushing the up and down keys in time with CJ's thrusts. If you match the rhythm, the "excitement" meter goes higher and the rhythm gets faster, until you... um... win. You can also switch positions (three to choose from, guess which ones) and camera angles, though I don't think this has any impact on the "game" as such. Missionary, Doggie Style, and Girl-on-top? Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Furiously on June 14, 2005, 01:23:23 AM No Donkeypunching?
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Daydreamer on June 14, 2005, 02:04:28 AM I vote for adding teabagging in GTA4
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: schild on June 14, 2005, 02:07:38 AM I vote for every character to be renamed Ron Mexico and have only one special ability. Cleveland Steamers.
This conversation has gone to a bad place. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Signe on June 14, 2005, 05:02:56 AM The last three posts are complete gibberish to me. That's the second f13 thread this morning that stopped making any sense. I'm a bit afraid to read on. :-(
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Megrim on June 14, 2005, 06:44:36 AM ... ZING!
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: HaemishM on June 14, 2005, 08:26:59 AM But does it give with the money shot?
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: WayAbvPar on June 14, 2005, 09:27:43 AM But does it give with the money shot? I would be surprised if it didn't have a targeting reticule. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Alluvian on June 14, 2005, 10:17:56 AM The player models in GTA are so butt ugly though. I would be massively creeped out seeing any of them naked. I don't get the interest outside of a schoolyard gigglefest.
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: voodoolily on June 14, 2005, 11:13:29 AM How is this better than a tampon string? :-D
The player models in GTA are so butt ugly though. I would be massively creeped out seeing any of them naked. I don't get the interest outside of a schoolyard gigglefest. What, a pair of 20-sided die for tits isn't hawt anymore? Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Yegolev on June 14, 2005, 11:20:27 AM What, a pair of 20-sided die for tits isn't hawt anymore? It is, but not in the way you are thinking. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: voodoolily on June 14, 2005, 11:22:05 AM heehee.
Geodesic, baby! Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: schild on July 14, 2005, 08:58:18 AM Quote Hillary Clinton to take on Rockstar over Hot Coffee Washington, DC press conference Thursday will see the New York Senator call for a Federal Trade Commission inquiry into the San Andreas mod. Tomorrow in the country's capital, Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY) will call on the Federal Trade Commission to launch an inquiry into the "Hot Coffee" mod, sources have told GameSpot. Clinton, a vociferous critic of violence in the media, will be joined by David Walsh, president and founder of the National Institute on Media and the Family; Mary Bissell, fellow at the New America Foundation; and Kiersten Stewart, director of public policy for the Family Violence Prevention Fund. Clinton is expected to call on the FTC to determine who is responsible for the Hot Coffee mod, a modification that unlocks sexually explicit minigames in Rockstar's recently published PC version of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. While the game is rated M, and therefore not readily sold to those below the age of 17, the mod is easily available online. A statement distributed by the Senator's office this afternoon sets the scene, stating that "following recent reports revealing that the video game Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas has graphic pornographic content which may be unlocked by following instructions on the Internet, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton will hold a press conference to discuss legislative solutions to keep inappropriate video game content out of the hands of young people." The statement makes no mention of asking the FTC to step in, but sources tell GameSpot that this request will be the centerpiece of the Senator's plea tomorrow. Although there are far more outspoken politicians when it comes to regulating game content inappropriate for children, this is not the first time Clinton has looked into the issue. On her official Web site, Clinton lists "fighting the culture of sex and violence in the media" as part of her platform, and in March, she joined with Senators Joe Lieberman (D-CT), Sam Brownback (R-KS), and Rick Santorum (R-PA) to cosponsor legislation seeking $90 million over five years for research into how viewing different types of media (television, video games, and the Internet in particular) affects children's development. Clinton plans on holding the press event at 10am in Room 485 of the Russell Senate Office Building. The Great White Hope she is not. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Paelos on July 14, 2005, 09:41:26 AM Please just let her run for Prez. The Daily Show commentary alone would be worth it.
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Samwise on July 14, 2005, 10:02:17 AM Quote the mod is easily available online. I wonder how long it'll take them to find out that live-action and uncensored porn is also available online. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: HaemishM on July 14, 2005, 10:11:46 AM I must ask the Christians on this board to forgive me for my upcoming outburst. Since they are Christians, I know they will, or Jesus will hate them or something.
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST, HILLARY, YOU ARE OFFICIALLY A GODDAMN DOUCHEBAG. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Shockeye on July 14, 2005, 10:15:07 AM I must ask the Christians on this board to forgive me for my upcoming outburst. Since they are Christians, I know they will, or Jesus will hate them or something. JESUS FUCKING CHRIST, HILLARY, YOU ARE OFFICIALLY A GODDAMN DOUCHEBAG. And remember folks, Haemish would've voted for her. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: HaemishM on July 14, 2005, 10:17:08 AM Your ass. I'd have wasted my vote on Nader on one of those other loonies from the no-name parties rather than vote for that uptight cunt.
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Samwise on July 14, 2005, 10:18:36 AM I might have voted for her out of morbid curiosity. Might have. No longer.
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Dren on July 14, 2005, 10:24:34 AM Quote the mod is easily available online. I wonder how long it'll take them to find out that live-action and uncensored porn is also available online. Or how long it will take them to realize that you can't play a mod by itself. Um, you have to go buy that rated M game first! That section of the article made me seriously stop and feel several braincells die before moving on. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Samwise on July 14, 2005, 11:03:33 AM I think the key point here, even accepting the ludicrous premise that an "MA" game can't show two people dry humping (which is really all it is unless you modify the player models as well), is that the game does not in fact ship with this gameplay. The mod is a third-party creation that you have to go seek out on the Intertron. Holding Rockstar responsible for something a third-party mod does is asinine.
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: voodoolily on July 14, 2005, 04:00:55 PM I suspect she's just pulling a Jimmy Carter on everyone. Look who she's pairing with in drafting this legislation, for crissakes. I'm gonna give her the benefit of the doubt on this one.
Besides, nothing can ever really be done to stop people from accessing anything they want on the intarthing anyway, so it seems like an obvious way for her to garner support from conservatives. Support she'll sorely need. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Paelos on July 14, 2005, 04:07:45 PM I suspect she's just pulling a Jimmy Carter on everyone. Look who she's pairing with in drafting this legislation, for crissakes. I'm gonna give her the benefit of the doubt on this one. Besides, nothing can ever really be done to stop people from accessing anything they want on the intarthing anyway, so it seems like an obvious way for her to garner support from conservatives. Support she'll sorely need. There is no actual "conservative" in the United States who will swing to a Clinton vote. She runs, expect an amazing voter turnout in favor of the Republicans assuming Satan himself is not on the ballot. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: voodoolily on July 14, 2005, 04:31:32 PM Heh, touche. What I meant was moderate Republicans and conservative Dems (where I come from, liberals vote for Nader).
Were you saying that if Satan were on the ballot, he'd win? :evil: Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Paelos on July 14, 2005, 05:24:01 PM Heh, touche. What I meant was moderate Republicans and conservative Dems (where I come from, liberals vote for Nader). Were you saying that if Satan were on the ballot, he'd win? :evil: (http://edition.cnn.com/1999/ALLPOLITICS/stories/12/18/clinton.legal.fees/link.hillary.clinton.jpg)(http://people.morehead-st.edu/students/kb/krbail02/satan.jpg) I think it'd come down to Florida again. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Murgos on July 14, 2005, 06:05:38 PM Well, in that case it would be hmm, Satan.
C'mon we elected a Bush named J.E.B. as Governor how many terms in a row now? Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Pococurante on July 15, 2005, 07:17:17 AM Next stop Politics. Then the Den. Then the End Of The World As We Know It.
"And I feel fiiiine" Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Samwise on July 15, 2005, 05:07:31 PM Next stop Politics. Then the Den. It really ought to be the other way around. Politics is a far fouler place than the Den. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: AOFanboi on July 16, 2005, 12:30:17 AM Politics is a far fouler place than the Den. Duh. That's because only our well-composed and corteous moderators get to post there. A nice way to be sure to get the last word, that. 'Sploit or griefing? You decide.Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Shockeye on July 16, 2005, 08:22:25 AM Quote from: Kotaku Hot Coffee on PS2! (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/top/hot-coffee-on-ps2-112800.php) Well, there goes Rockstar’s last defense. Someone claims to have come up with an unlock code for Hot Coffee on the Playstation 2 version of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. The unlock requires the AR Max device, by the code is so short it’s actually listed in its entirety in a forum posting. Can someone try it out for me and let me know if it works? Rockstar is officially not returning my calls requesting comment. Oh, what the heck, here are the codes: Date & Girlfriend Codes… D1U0-7U5R-BJ2ZC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date Modifier… >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 39VZ-NARK-06RVU >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8UQH-1851-EZQPC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Always Driving Date >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8JKP-4XPM-Y2W6U >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12UF-9DF5-0P0RG >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7ZPF-J4VG-C20FY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vAUN4-Y662-7NFV0 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7ZPF-J4VG-C20FY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Always Dancing Date >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9YZR-17TF-MWZU4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5JC3-M4E8-VQ4CX >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6BHH-ZW1G-YH2TU >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AUN4-Y662-7NFV0 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6BHH-ZW1G-YH2TU >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Always Dinner Date >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HRHT-J8VC-2P05M >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5JC3-M4E8-VQ4CX >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NG2H-VX0E-Z0G2T >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12UF-9DF5-0P0RG >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NG2H-VX0E-Z0G2T >>>>>>>> Quick Fun Increase (Driving Dates) >>>>>>>> HC35-44B7-1B0QY >>>>>>>> DVN8-B67P-H075B >>>>>>>> Hot Coffee (After Successful Date) >>>>>>>> WARNING: Uncensored Hot Coffee CODE >>>>>>>> UNLOCKS ADULT CONTENT HIDDEN BY ROCKSTAR GAMES >>>>>>>> 7UZJ-9YW8-0T45Z >>>>>>>> 8UQH-1851-EZQPC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Censored Hot Coffee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Note: Use this code if you wish to save >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game with Uncensored Hot Coffee disabled >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1NQR-NVFE-NXV1Q >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20MW-A62G-9MQ30 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Uncensored Hot Coffee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Note: DO NOT SAVE WITH THIS CODE ACTIVE >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This cheat will save and MAY corrupt your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> save USE AT YOUR OWN RISK You will be stuck >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in an invisible box after adult scene Press >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> R1 R2 L1 L2 buttons at the same time to escape >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JD3N-EV68-AGRW0 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4PMG-6VNA-PBZQ7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BKR1-JF84-6Q23C >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U7Q0-6H91-6JATX >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5540-HY63-181MY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7FB5-3052-PWB8N >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 03AH-5PBC-9K2T7 Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Strazos on July 16, 2005, 08:23:59 AM That looks like too much work.
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Shockeye on July 16, 2005, 08:32:41 AM Gamespot is confirming it's in the PS2 version as well. (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/15/news_6129301.html?part=rss&tag=gs_news&subj=6129301)
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Samwise on July 18, 2005, 09:00:16 AM Presumably that code doesn't change the player models, though. Which means it's still just dry humping. MY VIRGIN EYES!!!!111!!!
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: HaemishM on July 18, 2005, 09:11:02 AM Thugs love them some dry humpin', y0.
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: WayAbvPar on July 18, 2005, 09:32:13 AM Thugs love them some dry humpin', y0. I am reminded of a very vivid story Kevin Smith (in An Evening with Kevin Smith (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00007149S/qid=1121704275/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-4048486-2349411?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846), a must see for any fan) about the night he first got together with his future wife. Owwie. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Sky on July 18, 2005, 11:18:30 AM I voted against Hillary.
I've voted against Bush twice now. (Well, technically 3 times, I love me some Perot) I'm in a minority, even in NY. The city is the only reason we aren't a 'red' state, our county is quite red in the neck. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: stray on July 18, 2005, 02:18:50 PM "Warriors, come out to plaaaay...."
(Okay, that was corny :roll:) In other news, Rockstar is making a game based on the OG flick "The Warriors" (http://www.rockstargames.com/thewarriors/). [EDIT] I'd prefer the Wanderers myself. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: HaemishM on July 18, 2005, 02:28:00 PM When will they be making the interactive West Side Story?
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: stray on July 18, 2005, 02:39:22 PM When will they be making the interactive West Side Story? If someone can do Shakespeare first, then I might be able to approve of that. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: voodoolily on July 19, 2005, 11:30:48 AM "Warriors, come out to plaaaay...." (Okay, that was corny :roll:) In other news, Rockstar is making a game based on the OG flick "The Warriors" (http://www.rockstargames.com/thewarriors/). [EDIT] I'd prefer the Wanderers myself. CAAAAAAN YOOOOOUUUUU DIG IIIIIIIIIT?!?! Title: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Strazos on July 19, 2005, 12:24:57 PM http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/fun.games/07/19/grading.games.ap/index.html?section=cnn_tech
I would like to know where these parents are...the ones too fucking stupid to judge game content for themselves. My mother certainly had no problems when I was young, and she knows jack and shit about games. As an aside, Joseph Baca (D-CA) is still a fucking douchebag. I've had to read some of his stuff before, and the man...is a fucking over-reacting moron. Get a grip. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: HaemishM on July 19, 2005, 12:43:03 PM Oh I love this line from Baca:
Quote And these games are having a real, detrimental impact on young minds, Baca said -- "In a video game, you're actually pursuing and simulating a person. You're under hypnosis. You're a person that is dramatizing, that is living the example of what is going on." Wow, games are really HYP-MO-TIZ-ING me. I better watch out. What a fucking cuntrag. Raging thundercunt twatwaddler. Also, fuck Rockstar Games for putting that dry-humping content in, knowing that shit would get them an AO if it was apparent from the getgo. Being that the shit can be unlocked on the PS2, I don't think it was done by the Hot Coffee programmer. If you want to make a fucking adults-only game, nut up and do it, take the hit of no Wal-Mart sales and stop being a little pussy. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Bunk on July 19, 2005, 01:41:09 PM Off the top of my head Im guessing that Rockstar made the content and then ran the game by the ratings board and was told what had to go to avoid the AO. It was probably just easier to write a jump in to the code that bypassed the "hot cofee" parts than to actually remove them. Dumb on thier part, but I guessing that its a pretty common programing shortcut.
Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Evangolis on July 19, 2005, 07:26:10 PM So my brother is the VP of an energy company (as opposed to my other brother, who is a neo-marxist radical feminist) and frequently votes Republican, to the shame of all his kin. And he let his preteen sons have full cable in their room, which really surprised me. But he didn't care, and the kids turned out fine.
Which is the problem. People who have reasonable attitudes about this don't care, because they know that a little T&A or some Doom action isn't going to make their kids slavering loons. Whereas those with unreasonable ideas are already slavering loons. Too bad we can't vote on this shit one issue at a time, instead of wrapping it all into picking just a few posturing dorkwads. As to why leave it in, I've done the same thing. You program in some great feature, get it up, and then the client or the manager nixes it. You sit down at your desk, grinding your teeth, and comment out the call, but leave the code, 'just in case they change their mind'. It isn't realistic, and it is bad software practice, but programmers are human beings. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Llava on July 19, 2005, 07:41:52 PM Dear Rockstar,
Please stop supplying douchebags with all the ammunition they could ever want for their ridiculous crusade. Gratefully, GWD Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Rodent on July 19, 2005, 11:14:43 PM I just can't figure out why US legislators/censors are deathly afraid of sex, I also fail to understand why anyone would want to play the mod. In Europe PEGI ( Pan European Game Information ) rated the game 18+ with a special warning for violence and bad language, far as I know had the sex content been included the only difference is that the box would also have to be marked with the sex symbol.
Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Daydreamer on July 20, 2005, 01:23:39 AM I just can't figure out why US legislators/censors are deathly afraid of sex, I also fail to understand why anyone would want to play the mod. In Europe PEGI ( Pan European Game Information ) rated the game 18+ with a special warning for violence and bad language, far as I know had the sex content been included the only difference is that the box would also have to be marked with the sex symbol. Different cultures different norms. In Europe sex is a less verboten topic, and if I recall correctly they do their SexEd stuff 2-4 years before we do. On the other hand you use the words 'Nazi' or 'Hitler' in a positive way in public and you can get fined. Which isn't to say that any of the laws or ratings anyone uses are perfect, but their differences are understandably rooted in the populace. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Sky on July 20, 2005, 07:04:23 AM I just wrote what is probably a totally useless gesture to Hillary, being one of her consituents.
I honestly think the reason gaming comes under fire so heavily from congress is that it's not a strong enough lobby. Congressmen need to get paid to shut the fuck up about things. Viva America. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Merusk on July 20, 2005, 08:40:32 AM I honestly think the reason gaming comes under fire so heavily from congress is that it's not a strong enough lobby. Congressmen need to get paid to shut the fuck up about things. Viva America. You're exactly right. Games are making 'MORE MONEY THAN HOLLYWOOD."(tm) That shines a pretty damn big spotlight on an industry that seems content to think they're immune to political machinations. There's been several industries/ Comapnies that thought that way until "Big Ass-Reaming Legislation of Doom (tm)" got dropped on them, then they woke the fuck up and hired lobbyists. Microsoft, for example, or the construction industry prior to the ADA being passed. After things like that get dumped on them, industries learn it's easier (and cheaper) to stop a law from getting passed or to blunt its sharp edges than it is to fight it after it's been passed. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Xanthippe on July 20, 2005, 08:46:31 AM I don't see this as being any different than the past attacks on popular culture. Attacks on comic books, rock 'n roll, cartoons, D&D, video games... and I'm sure it started before the 50's. I have a feeling this has been going on since politics was invented.
It's a ploy by politicians to do something "for the children" so as to gain popularity by "preventing the moral decay of our society." It's bullshit, and they know it. Nevertheless, they use it. Hillary's poising for her presidential bid, nothing more. This too shall cool down and pass. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Pococurante on July 20, 2005, 10:39:41 AM It's almost like there's this minority political party, taking the moral high ground to appeal to Silent Majority American Voter.
Sorry. That's crazy talk! Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: NowhereMan on July 20, 2005, 10:43:32 AM Hell you can look back to Athens putting Socrates to death for seducing the young of the city. Executing one of the greatest minds in Western history.
For the children. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Strazos on July 20, 2005, 10:48:26 AM Good reference.
Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: HaemishM on July 20, 2005, 11:42:45 AM I just can't figure out why US legislators/censors are deathly afraid of sex, I also fail to understand why anyone would want to play the mod. In Europe PEGI ( Pan European Game Information ) rated the game 18+ with a special warning for violence and bad language, far as I know had the sex content been included the only difference is that the box would also have to be marked with the sex symbol. Because Americans luv us some bombs, but sex is a horrible thing. Or somethin'. Americans have an entirely stupid puritanical view on sex, an insanely idiotic stance that contributes to teen pregnancy, floppy Jackson nipples being more important than a President's bold-faced lies to his constituents, and shitty television. It's hard to explain to a non-American, simply because it defies all sense of logic and decency. If I had the choice of showing my (future) child 8 hours of non-fetish pr0n or 8 hours of Hollywood violence, I'd choose the pr0n. Worst thing that happens he gets a boner, rubs one out and goes to sleep. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Ironwood on July 20, 2005, 11:51:25 AM Bless.
Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Pococurante on July 20, 2005, 12:46:59 PM Because Americans luv us some bombs, but sex is a horrible thing. Or somethin'. Because by keeping our youngin's ignorant and more likely to breed we stand a chance against the onslaught of the melanin-rich immigrant horde. And we luv us some bombs, I mean c'mon blowing stuff up is aty least as fun as making it in the first place! (http://velorution.blogspot.com/crashbonsai.jpg) Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Sairon on July 20, 2005, 01:58:20 PM In reality it's all fucking stupid, I mean "oh noes my kids are watching people having sex, the horror". I remember my pre teen years, it wasn't exactly hard to get a hold on some pr0n and I don't think it fucked me up in any way, quite the countrary. Sure I didn't wank to it in the begining but it was still intresting stuff in some way. I relate very natural to sex and see no shame in actualy enjoying watching it. I know most of my mates had pretty much the same experience. There was this other kid though which had deeply religous parents which protected him from all harm, not only did he get picked on for not knowing shit about the subject, but when we were shown an educational movie about sex in school I remember the look on his face were totaly freaked out.
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Shockeye on July 20, 2005, 02:33:42 PM Quote from: AP Rating Board changes "GTA: San Andreas" to Adults Only (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/07/20/state/n135226D99.DTL) By RON HARRIS, Associated Press Writer Wednesday, July 20, 2005 (07-20) 13:55 PDT San Francisco (AP) -- Under pressure from politicians and family values groups, the video game industry changed the rating for the sex-infused best-seller "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" Wednesday, from "M" for mature to "AO" for adults only — a label that many retailers won't sell. The game's producer, Rockstar Games, said it stopped making the current version of the game and is now working on a version with enhanced security to prevent modifications that allow access to the sex content. It said it will give new AO labels to any retailer willing to continue selling the version now on store shelves. The decision to re-rate a game based on an unauthorized third party modification presents a new challenge for parents, the interactive entertainment industry and anyone who distributes or consumes digital content, said Paul Eibeler, the president of Take-Two Interactive, Rockstar's parent company. While Eibeler stressed that only an unauthorized "mod" makes this content available, his spokesman finally acknowledged in an interview with The Associated Press Wednesday that Rockstar Games created the sex scenes in the first place — not only in the PC version but in Xbox and PlayStation2 platforms as well. "There is sex content in the disc," said Take-Two spokesman Jim Ankner. "The editing and finalization of any game is a complicated task and it's not uncommon for unused and unfinished content to remain on the disc." The Entertainment Software Rating Board revoked the "M" rating Wednesday after concluding that "sexually explicit material exists in a fully rendered, unmodified form on the final discs of all three platform versions of the game (i.e., PC CD-ROM, Xbox and PS2)," Patricia Vance, president of the ESRB, said in a statement. The sex scenes prompted outraged reactions from parent's groups and politicians, who are calling for federal oversight of video game ratings. "The material was programmed by Rockstar to be inaccessible to the player," said Vance, who acknowledged the pressure the video game industry has faced since the sex scenes were revealed. "Considering the existence of the undisclosed and highly pertinent content on the final discs, compounded by the broad distribution of the third party modification, the credibility and utility of the initial ESRB rating has been seriously undermined." Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: HaemishM on July 20, 2005, 03:02:30 PM So when are they going to change the Sims rating to M or AO, seeing as how you can download a nude patch for that as well?
Fucking retards. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Bunk on July 20, 2005, 03:26:35 PM I wouldn't normally say anything to defend censorship retards, but there is a pretty obvious difference here between San Andreas and The Sims(2). Rockstar was pretty stupid for leaving the code in place in a fully functioning state. The Sims requires adding in your own custom content to get nudity, becuase even if you hack out the pixelation, all you get is Barbie Doll bodies.
That all being said - fuck this stupid shit for creating more stupid as precidents for the right wing bible thumpers to put limits on my access to computer generated pron. Bastards. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Samwise on July 20, 2005, 03:57:33 PM It's my understanding (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) that SA did not ship with any nude models. It did ship with the dry-humping minigame, and models of the girlfriends in "intimate wear", but still no X-rated (or even R-rated) nudity.
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: stray on July 20, 2005, 04:06:28 PM the right wing bible thumpers (http://www.techlawjournal.com/images/people/lieberman.jpg) (http://www.sfmission.com/gallery_files/site_pics/New_York/2004_Carnaval/Grand_Marshals/Hilary_Clinton.jpg) (http://clinton1.nara.gov/White_House/EOP/VP_Wife/images/tipper-big.gif) Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Rasix on July 20, 2005, 04:23:54 PM So, how again would good old fashion humping change the rating to an AO when the following would not:
Theft. Drug smuggling. Murder of all vartieties. Cop killing. Killing random hookers and pedestrians. Contractual murder. Vehicular homocide. Gang violence. Sex with sound effects (you already have "coffee" and you hear the sounds just no pixelated humping) Prostitution Kidnapping and murder. Extortion, blackmail, etc etc. More swear words than the entire South Park movie. I've seen the stupid Hot Coffee mod in action. Even with something that changed the female skin to something nude it was hardly perverse. There's no visible genetalia at all. You'll see more hard core sex in a Michael Bay movie. This is just fucking dumb. The people pushing for this (change to AO) should be dragged out into the street and hung by their toes. And Stray's right, it's just not the family values, bible thumping regime, the main push toward's legistation has come from the irresponsible parenting trifecta of Lieberman, Clinton and Gore. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Evangolis on July 20, 2005, 04:34:08 PM GTA:SA gets AO rating. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8647176/)
Seems deserved to me. Now the damn things will sell out even faster. Wouldn't surprise me to see them start releasing multiple ratings going forward. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Shockeye on July 20, 2005, 04:36:38 PM GTA:SA gets AO rating. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8647176/) Seems deserved to me. Now the damn things will sell out even faster. Wouldn't surprise me to see them start releasing multiple ratings going forward. You're hours behind. (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=3647.msg100216#msg100216) Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Strazos on July 20, 2005, 04:47:58 PM I don't think it's fair to blame the ESRB for this. It's not like they scrutinize internal code.
Why must people be stupid? Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Llava on July 20, 2005, 05:05:18 PM So wait.
Rockstar denied that they put those scenes in. Now they admit it. What are they, the Bush Administration? ZING! Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Margalis on July 20, 2005, 07:29:45 PM I think this is pretty interesting in general. You can't blame the ESRB, they rated the game as it existed. It isn't even an easter egg, you have to modify the game.
Can you blame Rockstar? I think what they did was dumb but shipping with code that never runs is a pretty minor sin. If I were Rockstar I would find the guy who made the mod and firebomb his house. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Evangolis on July 20, 2005, 10:06:58 PM GTA:SA gets AO rating. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8647176/) Seems deserved to me. Now the damn things will sell out even faster. Wouldn't surprise me to see them start releasing multiple ratings going forward. You're hours behind. (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=3647.msg100216#msg100216) I blame the Media. They were supposed to call me. I think this is pretty interesting in general. You can't blame the ESRB, they rated the game as it existed. It isn't even an easter egg, you have to modify the game. Can you blame Rockstar? I think what they did was dumb but shipping with code that never runs is a pretty minor sin. If I were Rockstar I would find the guy who made the mod and firebomb his house. Sorry, but I can't agree here, I see this as part of the whole 'bad coding standards = bad games' issue. Sure, I can understand why they shipped that way, as I said, I've done the same myself, but is still sub-standard work, and when that shit bites you in the ass, you gotta point your finger in the mirror. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: schild on July 20, 2005, 10:09:17 PM The ESRB rates what's on the shelf. If they didn't, I could get in the face of Squaresoft and EB for letting that assmuncher kid name Locke "Faggot" in Final Fantasy VI when they sold me the game used.
The ESRB has no place policing this shit. Period. I can not buy the sex minigame off the shelf. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Trippy on July 21, 2005, 02:07:16 AM Take-Two has halted production of GTA:SA and is redoing the content (http://www.shacknews.com/docs/press/072005_gta_sa.x)
I predict speculators are going to buy up as many copies of the current version as possible and put them up on eBay after the updated version is released so if you don't have the game yet and want the "modable" version you better run out and get one now before they sell out. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: MrHat on July 21, 2005, 05:06:39 AM I agree with just about everything said in here.
I can, and will, see more sex and flesh on MTV at any given time during the day (even in the morning, think of the children!). Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Murgos on July 21, 2005, 05:20:27 AM I agree with just about everything said in here. I can, and will, see more sex and flesh on MTV at any given time during the day (even in the morning, think of the children!). They've tried going after MTV before. It didn't work but it did get them a LOT of funding from concerned hollywood types to make sure it didn't happen again in the form of lobbiests and campaign funding. My current take on this is that it is Hillary's method of the old Mob strong arm. She's telling the gaming industry pay up or face investigations. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Pococurante on July 21, 2005, 05:37:09 AM "M" is not getting slapped onto Saturday morning cartoons - games like GTA are definitely adult themes. The virtual environments aren't vague 32x32 sprites careening off in MIDI whoop-whoops but are pretty realistic renditions. Once the ratings systems actually work you can enjoy the dry hump of the LLL mini-game, convince your S.O. you really are mature adult, and feel good knowing you're making your favorite industry even more insanely profitable.
The nudity just gives them traction. These games *should* have adult ratings for exactly the laundry list posted by Rasix. Why the fuck would any of you care about this - you should be applauding a ratings system that actually works instead of playing winky-wink games with bags of money. Oh yeah - the overabundance of 85% plus Hedonism scores. "I don't want rating systems that work, I want what I want when I want it Cuz I'm An Adult!!" (http://www2.warnerbros.com/willywonka/img/gallery/wonkpic8.jpg) Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Murgos on July 21, 2005, 05:40:12 AM You guys are all wrong.
This is NOT an example of big brother trying to be your keeper and make the world a safer place. It's an example of Hillary trying to get the Game Industry to pony up some more lobbyist dollars by showing what may happen if they don't start with the campaign donations. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: MrHat on July 21, 2005, 06:13:50 AM So Take-Two gets back all of the AO versions, releases versions without the humping, then releases the Unrated version at a later date for $60/box.
Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Sky on July 21, 2005, 07:15:28 AM The ESRB rates what's on the shelf. If they didn't, I could get in the face of Squaresoft and EB for letting that assmuncher kid name Locke "Faggot" in Final Fantasy VI when they sold me the game used. This is what I've been saying. I just sent off another letter to Hillary.The ESRB has no place policing this shit. Period. I can not buy the sex minigame off the shelf. My copy of GTASA has NO HOT COFFEE. Why should it be rated as such? How about nude skins for other games? ALL GAMES ARE AO NOW. :roll: Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Ironwood on July 21, 2005, 07:18:48 AM How about nude skins for other games? ALL GAMES ARE AO NOW. :roll: You beat me to that point. I was just going to bring up the nude Nazi mod in Wolfenstien. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Sky on July 21, 2005, 07:33:02 AM Quote These games *should* have adult ratings for exactly the laundry list posted by Rasix. Sorry, pops. I disagree.I like the Mature rating, because it allows the parents to make that decision. When I was 14, I was quite able to understand fantasy and reality, I had a few nudie mags and we'd shoot guns all the time. I've turned out just fine, because I was a mature kid. I think it's a crime to deny kids like I was the chance to play a fun game because some uptight folks got their panties bunched 'for the children'. That's censorship, and this is still america, for the time being, I guess. It's land of the free and home of the brave, not land of the coddled and home of the safe. Don't like it? Don't buy it. But don't tell me I can't, or you might get hurt. Seems the government is forgetting who founded this country, and under what conditions. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Bunk on July 21, 2005, 08:00:54 AM Ok, I'll make two points. One - yes I brought up the over used right-wing bible thumper stuff here, and it wasn't really appropriate. Fair enough, I was wrong. That triumvirate up there are obviously now just wanna be right-wing bible thumpers. (I keed)
Two - I have no problem with the theory behind puting more stringent ratings on games that are appropriate. You're right, I wouldn't want my 12 year old (had I one) to play a game like San Andreas - because of the levels of violence. But suddenly up and saying "its bad for teh childrens" becuse you can unlock a minigame with dry-humping? Fuck that stupid ass shit. The rating system is flawed as it is, because the ratings are handed out for stupid reasons. Then, once you have an inappropriate rating on a game, you start down the road of that game not succeeding because Wal*Mart decides not to carry that rating. I tend to go off on bible-thumpers when issues of censoring sexual content come up, even if it isn't those folk who are bringing this shit up in this particular case. Why? Well, in general I have to blame North America's tendancy to consider sex as being much more dangerous to children than violence on someone. The most likely culprit is the Bible belt. If you want to call your self left-wing and share the same stupid view, then I'll blame you too. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: HaemishM on July 21, 2005, 08:13:32 AM See, I love that everyone who is getting their tits in a wringer about this shit all fail to realize that with or without dry humping, NO ONE UNDER THE AGE OF 17 IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO BUY THIS GAME BY THEMSELVES. Nobody. And why are they able to do so? Because the retailers are selling it to them, OR because their parents are buying it for them. Nothing you see in GTA: SA is going to be any worse than what you would see in an R-Rated movie, which again, no one under the age of 17 should be able to see without a parent purchasing the ticket for them. The AO rating is essentially nothing more than a punishment rating, because we all know the only places that will carry AO-rated games won't sell enough of them to affect Rockstar's bottom line. It's the same punitive type of rating that the MPAA tosses on NC17 movies. It's a stigma rating.
We don't need laws making it illegal to sell these games to kids. We need retailers who are propping up the ESRB Ratings system to actually do what they are supposed to do and enforce them. And we need parents to take responsibility for their child's upbringing and either monitor what their kids are playing or shut the fuck up. And we need Rockstar to stop being such a bag of stupid, irresponsible douchebags. I have no problem with the content of the GTA games, I rather like them. What I have a problem with is their irresponsibility and "Whoops" attitude to the whole thing. They WANT the fucking controversy, because it generates sales. They are the Luke fucking Skywalker's of the game industry, and he was a right douchebag. They are only lucky in that they have provided interesting gameplay to go along with the bullshit shock value content. If they didn't have that, their shock value Marilyn Manson gangsta thug rap bullshit would sell hot once, then disappear like a stone. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: HaemishM on July 21, 2005, 08:37:28 AM Or the nude Sims mod. Or all the nude/BDSM NWN mods and adventures.
Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Evangolis on July 21, 2005, 09:03:05 AM The ESRB rates what's on the shelf. If they didn't, I could get in the face of Squaresoft and EB for letting that assmuncher kid name Locke "Faggot" in Final Fantasy VI when they sold me the game used. This is what I've been saying. I just sent off another letter to Hillary.The ESRB has no place policing this shit. Period. I can not buy the sex minigame off the shelf. My copy of GTASA has NO HOT COFFEE. Why should it be rated as such? How about nude skins for other games? ALL GAMES ARE AO NOW. :roll: If you're feeling particularly like Don Quixote, point out that the NFL has real people doing real violence with real injuries and is broadcast on the open airwaves. I can still remember watching Joe Thiesman's leg rippling like water as I watched the thrid slow motion replay on Monday Night Football. And how bout them twins! :-o Hey Pete Coors, thanks for the mammaries. At the same time, I don't think Rockstar is innocent here. There is a difference between people adding content wholesale vs just creating an access to content existing in the code already. That was sloppy work, and they can do much better. In fact, having done much better is the only excuse for the way they push the envelope. But if you put the bomb in the box with the grapefruit, you aren't guiltless just because sombody else lit the fuse. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Margalis on July 21, 2005, 09:03:27 AM What about just using a gameshark to change a guy in Mortal Kombat from Jonny Cage to Pig Fucker?
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Samwise on July 21, 2005, 09:04:41 AM And we need parents to take responsibility for their child's upbringing and either monitor what their kids are playing or shut the fuck up. True story: the other day I was at the local video store and I saw an eight year old press a copy of GTA:VC into his bleached-blonde-trailer-park-looking mother's hand and say "I want this one, mommy." The mother doesn't even look at the cover, and goes up to the counter to pay for it. As I was considering intervening, the guy at the counter courteously informed the mother that this game might not be appropriate for her youngster because it was about like letting him watch Scarface. He also pointed out the "M" rating and explained what it meant. The mother said "well, I had no idea that these games could be so violent, I just thought they were all for kids," and put it back, to the kid's chagrin. THAT is where the problem is. I have never seen one of these retailers that sells M-rated games to small children (no doubt twirling their mustaches all the while), although I'm sure they do exist somewhere. I see stupid parents all the time. If that kid hadn't accompanied his mother up to the counter, she probably would've gotten the game and then given it to Junior to play completely unsupervised. I'm sure she's also the type who would rent Ninja Scroll for the kid thinking it was a Disney movie. There is that much stupid out there, folks. On the bright side, this won't last forever, since many of the parents of tomorrow are the gamers of today. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Riggswolfe on July 21, 2005, 09:07:54 AM Or the nude Sims mod. Or all the nude/BDSM NWN mods and adventures. Where do I get those NWN mods? You know, for research into the collapse of society and stuff. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: HaemishM on July 21, 2005, 09:09:58 AM NWN Vault, I imagine. I never played any, but that's where they were available for download back in the day.
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: HaemishM on July 21, 2005, 09:15:29 AM But see, that's what I'm saying. You saw the exception on the retailer side. How many retailers are going to do that? Fuck, in Wal-Mart, chances are NONE of them will do that.
Also, part of that is a problem the industry has as a whole, just like the animation industry and the comics industry. The cultural perception is that cartoons/video games/comic books are for kids, even though the demographics on each of those industries is really starting to skew towards the majority being 20-something adults. The video game industry doesn't do nearly enough public service PR, and that's one place where the ESRB are falling flat on their faces for not even trying. Why are there no PSA's explaining that video games aren't just for kids, explaining what they do? Or advertorials in parenting magazines and on TV? So far, all I've seen the ESRB do is stick ratings on games and trying to keep Congress from making censorship laws. It's not enough. It's token lip service. The video game industry is young, but it's time to grow the fuck up and realize that with big dollars comes big responsibility. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Sky on July 21, 2005, 09:24:57 AM Some great points, Hammy, as usual. But damn you for beating me to the walmart reference.
I think behemoths like EA are doing a serious disservice by not doing tv and radio spots like you mention, or for using just the bill of their moneyhats to buy some politicians (as undesirable as I find that practice, it is the way the country works...). I watched a mother drop her 4-ish year old kid into a shopping cart last night, on his head, because he was 'acting up'. With a newborn in the baby seat and another kid trailing them. I don't trust parents to do anything, yet my belief is it's their responsibility. We're fucked imo. I mean, should we pass a law to make all shopping carts foam-lined? You can't stop ignorant, stupid fucks from being ignorant, stupid fucks. No matter how much it gives self-righteous folks a warm fuzzy. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Pococurante on July 21, 2005, 09:40:40 AM And we need Rockstar to stop being such a bag of stupid, irresponsible douchebags. I have no problem with the content of the GTA games, I rather like them. What I have a problem with is their irresponsibility and "Whoops" attitude to the whole thing. They WANT the fucking controversy, because it generates sales. Exactly. Taunt the politicians and they will come. Maturity is hard for some. To wit... It's land of the free and home of the brave, not land of the coddled and home of the safe. Don't like it? Don't buy it. But don't tell me I can't, or you might get hurt. Seems the government is forgetting who founded this country, and under what conditions. Ooh you called me pops! Now I'm convinced! So did you turn out fine because mommy & daddy let you buy nudie mags, the kindly grandfatherly general store owner sold them to you with a wink and a smile, and you walked out of his store with a jaunty step as you carried home your ciggies and beer? No - you grew up in a world where a lot of controls helped backfill for your parents when they weren't always able. Yes Verucca you can have your porn when daddy gets you back homey-womey. (http://www2.warnerbros.com/willywonka/img/gallery/wonkpic8.jpg) Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Yegolev on July 21, 2005, 09:54:35 AM Quote from: Bunk The rating system is flawed as it is, because the ratings are handed out for stupid reasons. Then, once you have an inappropriate rating on a game, you start down the road of that game not succeeding because Wal*Mart decides not to carry that rating. Zing one... See, I love that everyone who is getting their tits in a wringer about this shit all fail to realize that with or without dry humping, NO ONE UNDER THE AGE OF 17 IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO BUY THIS GAME BY THEMSELVES. zing two. It's a combination of money (lack of AO ratings) and politics (M is OK for kids, but AO kicks Jesus in the balls). A rating system is no excuse to offload your parental responsibilities. Be assured that the kids who are allowed to buy San Andreas are also attending the R movies at the local cineplex, thanks to a combination of disinterested retailers and parents. People make me angry. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: voodoolily on July 21, 2005, 09:54:47 AM So, how again would good old fashion humping change the rating to an AO when the following would not: Theft. Drug smuggling. Murder of all vartieties. Cop killing. Killing random hookers and pedestrians. Contractual murder. Vehicular homocide. Gang violence. Sex with sound effects (you already have "coffee" and you hear the sounds just no pixelated humping) Prostitution Kidnapping and murder. Extortion, blackmail, etc etc. More swear words than the entire South Park movie. You left out S&M and the ability to give a beat-down with a double-headed dildo (found in the showers of the police station no less). Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Sky on July 21, 2005, 09:55:17 AM Heh. That was funny. Calling you pops was a joke, but it's nice how you threw out a shitton of assumptions after.
I turned out fine because I had caring parents who took the time to talk to me and raise me properly. They didn't "let" me buy the nudie mags, I got a few playboys from a friend. Like just about every kid I knew growing up. And I fully stand behind the quote you grabbed. America is becoming overly pussified...for the children. Fuck the children. The parents are the problem, not mtv, not video games, not music, not guns. If you can't understand that, I feel bad for you. Must be my immaturity speaking. :roll: Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Samwise on July 21, 2005, 10:01:46 AM You left out S&M The so-called S&M in this game was tame. The girl has a dungeon for a bedroom with chains hanging all over it, she wears a full bondage outfit, and all she and CJ do is a bit of light spanking. AO my ass. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Pococurante on July 21, 2005, 10:04:47 AM Heh. That was funny. Calling you pops was a joke, but it's nice how you threw out a shitton of assumptions after. I didn't make a single assumption about you. It's called sarcasm and it doesn't always come in flashing green fonts tough guy. I haven't seen a kindly grandfatherly general store owner outside of TV. I thought the pops comment was funny so you got another tablespoon of Verucca Salt in return. Foodfights are fun. Of course you snuck your mags. So did I. So did pretty much every fairly normal kid male and female. Hey you know what? I still hide them. And that's my point. Don't make me explain to again the difference between society organized around mental twelve year olds versus one the shelters the real ones. There's nothing pussy about a society that segregates its children form "adult pursuits". There's nothing pussy about an AO rating. And it's not a punishment rating, Haem (if anything ratings work just the opposite on kids). Using your idiot logic we don't need porn ratings either. A rating is not censorship or a ban. A rating just means the right people can buy what they want they want it in the right place and with complete confidence they are NOT contributing to a crappy society. Anyone bitching about a rating is a freaking child in an adult's body. Bitch when something is banned. Bitch when it's censored. Bitch when the fuckers abuse the ratings systems to appeal to the mental twleve year olds. Bitch like a grown up. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Strazos on July 21, 2005, 10:06:01 AM I wish I could have gotten into NWN....I even bought a guide to build modules, but I didn't have anyone to DM,
To stay on topic...fuck you Hillary. Rockstar, stop being lazy. And a big "Fuck You" to J. Baca. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: voodoolily on July 21, 2005, 10:07:07 AM The so-called S&M in this game was tame. The girl has a dungeon for a bedroom with chains hanging all over it, she wears a full bondage outfit, and all she and CJ do is a bit of light spanking. AO my ass. True, tame and hilarious. It was just one of the many parts of the free content that I wouldn't want my kid to see. I agree with Sky that it's a parent's responsibility to monitor what their kids have access to. I feel a lot of sympathy for parents of kids today, 'cuz at least my parents didn't hafta worry about the internet. Just R-rated movies and other kidhood shenanigans like stealing and cussing. And they didn't know about the porn my bro and I dumpster-dived from the apartment complex we lived in (we hid it in our tree fort and invited all the neighbor kids to come take a look). Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Pococurante on July 21, 2005, 10:26:35 AM But if you put the bomb in the box with the grapefruit, you aren't guiltless just because sombody else lit the fuse. Exactly. The incident was created by them intentionally. Anyone who's ever seen how this sort of stuff gets budgeted knows it was just some Lindy England-type working in their spare time. Chum the waters, sharks come. Hillary proved herself just that kind of shark during Watergate. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: MrHat on July 21, 2005, 10:46:22 AM Kind of brings us back to what someone was saying. This is probably just the politicians saying, hey VG Industry, you best give us monies or we start making your life hell.
Re: AO being a punishment. What Haem was saying is that games that might get that have limited their audience and hence their sales. It's the same reason that movies that are typically or should be R rated push and push to get PG-13 for the summertime, they know that kids with disposable incomes will go watch it because of marketing, and parents with younger kids (<12) are more likely to let them go with to watch the movie if it's PG-13 and not R. So by sticking an AO on a game, instead of M, you suddenly get all the stigma that comes with a game like that. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Yegolev on July 21, 2005, 11:17:53 AM It's not just a stigma, Wal*Mart simply will not give shelf space to an AO title. Similar to how they don't put porn tapes on those crappy wire shelves obstructing your path into the electronics section.
Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: MrHat on July 21, 2005, 11:27:53 AM It's not just a stigma, Wal*Mart simply will not give shelf space to an AO title. Similar to how they don't put porn tapes on those crappy wire shelves obstructing your path into the electronics section. Fuck Wal Mart. Fuck them in their blue asses. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Bunk on July 21, 2005, 12:21:29 PM A rating is not censorship or a ban. A rating just means the right people can buy what they want they want it in the right place and with complete confidence they are NOT contributing to a crappy society. Anyone bitching about a rating is a freaking child in an adult's body. Bitch when something is banned. Bitch when it's censored. Bitch when the fuckers abuse the ratings systems to appeal to the mental twleve year olds. Bitch like a grown up. As Yegolov said, the problem is that currently, an AO rating is essentially a ban. Major retailers like Wal*Mart will not carry AO titles, period. There are numerous problems with the current system, as it is: R ratings just make a game more popular Stores don't enforce the ratings = kids get the R games Parents don't pay attention/care what the kids are getting = kids get R games AO games have the stigma of being calssified as Porn Many major retailers won't carry AO games as a result As it stands right now, things get classified as R (or M, or whatever the system is using) for having violence, bloodshed, naughty language, etc. Games get an AO rating for having boobies. I like boobies, I should be able to buy a game that has boobies in it (violence or not) without having to skulk in to "Red Hot Videos Adult Superstore!!" to buy it. And the way things are headed, that's whats going to happen. I'm not trying to suggest answers here - I don't have any good answers for tis. I'm mearly stating that what we have now isn't doing what it is supposed to do. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Sogrinaugh on July 21, 2005, 01:19:59 PM Take-Two has halted production of GTA:SA and is redoing the content (http://www.shacknews.com/docs/press/072005_gta_sa.x) Damn i got to this thread to late. That was my very first thought appon reading the OP's newspot, and wondering how much of a risk i should take (i.e. how many copies of the game i should purchase).I predict speculators are going to buy up as many copies of the current version as possible and put them up on eBay after the updated version is released so if you don't have the game yet and want the "modable" version you better run out and get one now before they sell out. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Llava on July 21, 2005, 01:50:43 PM Rockstar, stop being lazy. It's more than being lazy. It's being just plain irresponsible. I'm no conservative, and I don't feel like there ought to be a law about this, but I've said this before- it sure would be nice if companies could hold themselves to a slightly higher standard than putting in a dildo in a game as an easter egg. I bet if you did enough research, you could find that Rockstar is actually controlled/funded by a few select politicians who keep pushing the company's game content over the boundaries in an attempt to stir up profitable controversy and votes. Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: ahoythematey on July 21, 2005, 02:53:28 PM That's pretty unlikely, being that the GTA team was DMA Design and is, as far as I know, still Edinburgh-based.
Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: NowhereMan on July 21, 2005, 03:32:12 PM Frankly I still think that the worst thing Rockstar did was reacting with a lie claiming that the Hot Coffee bit was completely not them. There's almost no way you're not getting going to get found out on that one and it makes you and by extension the rest of the industry look like you're trying to sneak this stuff under people's radars. That is the reason that the industry could get severely fucked over in America in terms of what regulation they have to deal with. I'd love to sit back all happy and smug now and point out how I live in Europe and so this won't effect me much but as the US is such a massive market, I know that if the shit hits the fans and you bastards decide that mentioning the word sex in a game or having a female character wearing anything less than a full length dress is a no-no, then game companies over here are going to start getting ready to sell to those standards.
Perhaps I'm being too sceptical of Rockstar, perhaps the response was a miscommunication and the higher-ups were told it wasn't part of the game or something. In that case though the fact that they didn't go on a firing spree very soon is almost as bad as the lying scenario (which imho seems more likely). It just comes across as taking no responsibility and despite the fact that I think this really is a massive hullabaloo over nothing much, it is likely to damage the industry. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Shockeye on July 21, 2005, 04:09:19 PM Serek Dmart on Hot Coffee. (http://www.gamecloud.com/article.php?article_id=771)
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Samwise on July 21, 2005, 04:16:51 PM He at least gets points for looking at the thing in question before commenting on it publicly.
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: WayAbvPar on July 21, 2005, 04:17:46 PM Serek Dmart on Hot Coffee. (http://www.gamecloud.com/article.php?article_id=771) Quote Serek Dmart - To be honest, I'm in two minds about this. That is at least 3 fewer than normal! Title: Re: Parents Ignore ESRB, Then Blame Them For Nonsense. Post by: Llava on July 21, 2005, 04:58:14 PM That's pretty unlikely, being that the GTA team was DMA Design and is, as far as I know, still Edinburgh-based. We need a color that's not sarcastic, but implies that a sentence isn't to be taken seriously. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: ahoythematey on July 21, 2005, 11:34:18 PM Hmm, what would be a good color for facetious...
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Samwise on July 22, 2005, 12:11:25 AM Teal?
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Daydreamer on July 22, 2005, 12:43:52 AM Octarine
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Trippy on July 22, 2005, 01:25:03 AM Rainbow colored (yes I know one of the standard colors is missing...)
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: ahoythematey on July 22, 2005, 01:31:25 AM I said facetious, not overtly gay.
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Murgos on July 22, 2005, 05:29:46 AM Quote from: Vince Desi, CEO of Running With Scissors Running With Scissors and POSTAL have been the scapegoat of the game industry for a long time... Heh. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Yegolev on July 22, 2005, 08:16:04 AM Serek Dmart on Hot Coffee. (http://www.gamecloud.com/article.php?article_id=771) Too much Smart, not enough Hollenshead. They should have asked Shigeru Myamoto what he thought. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Sky on July 22, 2005, 08:23:04 AM I said facetious, not overtly gay. I'm still upset the gays stole our rainbow. Where will we put the lucky charms and pots of gold, dammit?Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: HaemishM on July 22, 2005, 08:24:08 AM Apparently up a gay man's anus.
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: voodoolily on July 22, 2005, 10:09:22 AM I said facetious, not overtly gay. I'm still upset the gays stole our rainbow. Where will we put the lucky charms and pots of gold, dammit?I think there are a few gays who aren't thrilled about the rainbow thing, either. They didn't steal it, you can still use it. The pots of gold, you can just give to me. Title: Re: Let's get it on. Post by: Pococurante on July 22, 2005, 10:19:27 AM As Yegolov said, the problem is that currently, an AO rating is essentially a ban. Major retailers like Wal*Mart will not carry AO titles, period. (...) I'm not trying to suggest answers here - I don't have any good answers for tis. I'm mearly stating that what we have now isn't doing what it is supposed to do. I don't see an "Adults Only" section in Walmart that sells adult magazines, videos, or novelty items. If I did I'm sure I'd see GTA there. I'd go somewhere else when I want maximum strength adult content. So no a rating is not a ban. The problem is not the rating systems or the ratings they award. The problem is content providers who want to sell to the wrong demographic through the wrong distribution channels. A lot of you are saying you don't see a problem with that and want to blame the ratings system. That's Orwellian to me. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: voodoolily on July 22, 2005, 10:30:10 AM I thought the problem with rating was jsut a matter of who could/would sell their product. Walmart is the biggest retailer of games, so elimination of that franchise by a rating change could be trouble.
Pink is the color of blatantly obvious. Of course ratings do not equal a ban, but it's unfair to change a rating to one that renders the game unsellable by the biggest marketer, just because of hidden content that is really no worse than anything the game already had (that had warranted an M rating). Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Sky on July 22, 2005, 10:33:18 AM Quote I don't see an "Adults Only" section in Walmart that sells adult magazines, videos, or novelty items. If I did I'm sure I'd see GTA there. I'd go somewhere else when I want maximum strength adult content. If you lived in my town, you'd understand that walmart not carrying something is tantamount to a ban. It's the only software outlet in the area. Sure, I know how to order things online, but that doesn't cover the underprivileged folks without internet connectivity or even pcs."They don't gotta burn the books, they just remove 'em." - Zack de la Roche Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Pococurante on July 22, 2005, 10:37:02 AM But it no longer supports that light rating. The lighter rating was the result of deception. I see ESRB doing what a credible independent organization should do.
To turn it around while I personally might not be too perturbed to buy a copy of Time magazine that dropped out a Larry Flynt centerfold when Shaken Just Right what do you think is an appropriate reaction for people who buy and distribute Time magazine and not pr0n? Content developers need to pitch their products to the right channels. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Strazos on July 22, 2005, 10:57:46 AM Again, you could not play the "Hot Coffee" sections off the shelf, and that's what the ESRB rates. Since when do they have to account for 3rd-party mods?
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Triforcer on July 22, 2005, 11:11:38 AM Just out of curiosity, of the people here who hate the ESRB ratings and also think American society is fascist and puritanical for not letting everyone from toddlers on up have easy, free access to unlimited porn, how many of you actually have children? As with so many other issues, its easy to extol the virtues of totally unrestrained hedonism as an angry collegian stoner but harder when you have your own kids.
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Samwise on July 22, 2005, 11:12:39 AM Hot Coffee is a bit of a gray area between "easter egg" and "mod". Unlike a proper easter egg, it's not accessible by any sort of end-user twiddling. Unlike a proper mod, it doesn't import any new code or assets into the game, it just flips a protected variable to activate an unused code path (which in turn accesses previously-unseen art assets and so forth).
So on the one hand, Rockstar lied when they said that the minigame was an original invention - it was in fact part of the code they shipped. On the other hand, it's quite a bit different from shaking a Time magazine and having a Hustler spread fall out... it's a bit more like getting a secret decoder ring that allows you to reveal a hidden Sports Illustrated swimsuit spread on page 36. It's not going to "fall out" accidentally, and it's not even that scandalous to begin with. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Strazos on July 22, 2005, 11:14:24 AM Sorry, I don't want someone's parenting problems to infringe on me. Parenting should be the responsibility of, you know, the Parents.
I'm not saying replace Saturday morning cartoons with pr0n, but people need to calm down about this nonsense. Don't want you kids to be exposed to inappropriate content, such as what may be in a game? Then do your job. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Shockeye on July 22, 2005, 11:15:41 AM and it's not even that scandalous to begin with. And therein lies a bigger problem that's being glossed over by politicians and the like. The mini-game is less offensive than the rest of the game. Should the game have been AO from the start? Yes. Rockstar knows it pushes the boundaries with each game they produce. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Triforcer on July 22, 2005, 11:23:23 AM Sorry, I don't want someone's parenting problems to infringe on me. Parenting should be the responsibility of, you know, the Parents. I'm not saying replace Saturday morning cartoons with pr0n, but people need to calm down about this nonsense. Don't want you kids to be exposed to inappropriate content, such as what may be in a game? Then do your job. There is a fundamental problem of illogic with the two statements common to your side of this debate: 1. "Leave parents to parenting. If they don't want their child exposed to things they don't like they need to do a better job." followed by 2. "Since its the parents responsibility, we should have the right to a society with no moral rules or strictures whatsoever because its not our fault if their kids see it." This argument is like dropping a soldier in the middle of the warzone with no weapons or armor or clothing and telling him to fight. It may be his immediate job to win the war on the ground, but when he loses you are still fucking to blame. Telling parents to "parent better" is all well and good but when you strip them of most of the reasonable means to do so is YOUR FAULT. You can't justify society being unlimitedly hedonistic because parents have a 100% magical ability to shut it all out, because you have systemtically deprived them of the tools they need to shut it out. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Samwise on July 22, 2005, 11:30:24 AM Triforcer, do you really think that toddlers are getting their hands on $50 games without any parental involvement? As far as I can tell, most kids that are getting their hands on GTA are being aided and abetted by their clueless parents. At some point, parents do have to take responsibility for what the hell they're doing.
Giving your kid movies and games with "AGE 17+" on the cover or giving them $100 of allowance money and turning them loose in Best Buy without even reviewing their purchases is not responsible parenting. If you sit your kid on top of a lit stove for a few minutes you're not allowed to sue the stove manufacturer when he gets burned. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Sogrinaugh on July 22, 2005, 11:33:19 AM and it's not even that scandalous to begin with. And therein lies a bigger problem that's being glossed over by politicians and the like. The mini-game is less offensive than the rest of the game. Should the game have been AO from the start? Yes. Rockstar knows it pushes the boundaries with each game they produce. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Shockeye on July 22, 2005, 11:37:42 AM What the fuck are you people, marketing for Rockstar? With each additional post i grow more curious about this game. If i buy it and it sux, im car-bombing your stupid web server... with a chevy impala That sounds like a terroristic threat and I'm afraid the FBI will be contacting you shortly. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Samwise on July 22, 2005, 11:37:47 AM GTA:SA is pretty similar to the previous games in the series, if that gives you any idea. If you haven't played any of the previous GTA games, SHAME. I can't guarantee that you'll think that they're some of the best games ever made, but you're doing yourself grave a disservice by not having tried them out at all.
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Triforcer on July 22, 2005, 11:39:04 AM Triforcer, do you really think that toddlers are getting their hands on $50 games without any parental involvement? As far as I can tell, most kids that are getting their hands on GTA are being aided and abetted by their clueless parents. At some point, parents do have to take responsibility for what the hell they're doing. Giving your kid movies and games with "AGE 17+" on the cover or giving them $100 of allowance money and turning them loose in Best Buy without even reviewing their purchases is not responsible parenting. If you sit your kid on top of a lit stove for a few minutes you're not allowed to sue the stove manufacturer when he gets burned. Of course, in that situation you describe, the problem IS bad parenting. To extend my earlier analogy, even if you equip the soldiers and they outnumber the enemy, they still might lose due to ignorance, stupidity, bad soldiering, etc. What I was addressing in my post is the general sense of outrage that seems to permeate this thread as to ratings existing AT ALL, or the indignation at having to buy porn at an adult store instead of Walmart. Society has to at least provide the basic tools for people to raise their kids "morally", however that is defined. Having the theoretical ability to parent well won't matter, though, if porn is everywhere with no rules, which is apparently the society some want. Society has to provide SOME air support, so to speak, for parents to practically exercise the abstract ability to parent well. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: HaemishM on July 22, 2005, 11:40:03 AM Just out of curiosity, of the people here who hate the ESRB ratings and also think American society is fascist and puritanical for not letting everyone from toddlers on up have easy, free access to unlimited porn, how many of you actually have children? As with so many other issues, its easy to extol the virtues of totally unrestrained hedonism as an angry collegian stoner but harder when you have your own kids. Please shut the fuck up, you neocon titwaggling douchebag. People hate the ESRB ratings (or MPAA) not because they "restrict hedonism" but because they do not achieve the aim they are meant to achieve, i.e. keeping inappropriate content out of children's hands. How many children get into or see R rated movies? Enough. How many kids under 17 get a copy of GTA:SA? Enough. The ratings are meant to help parents understand what is right for their kids, and yet they don't do that because: 1) many parents aren't fit for the title, 2) the ESRB does not do nearly enough PR explaining what their ratings are and why they are important, and 3) their ratings suck ass and are mostly based on silly, backwards hypocrisy. Seriously, that was a really troll-like thing to say. Stop being a crotchpheasant. EDIT: And after having read your following posts, wow, you really are a fuckhead. No one here is saying that pr0n should be everywhere on all street corners and that every retailer should have to carry it. Holy fuck, where you got that from, I have no idea. But see, Wal-Mart is being made to carry something that if they really cared about the content, they'd never carry. GTA? Shit, forget that. Wal-Mart should never carry that game because of their own stance about CENSORING MUSIC CD's. They force musicians to re-record edited versions of their entire CD's just to remove curse words. Yet they have no problem selling unaltered M-rated games like GTA: SA, which has more actual violence and cursing than an Easy-E album. The ratings are supposed to let the retailers know what they are selling, and the parents what they are buying. But apparently, they don't do that, which is in part a failure on the ratings system, and in part a failure of the retailer. Notice that the only real action by any of these parties taken against the GTA games only came about because of media and political pressure. And of course, they really don't do that when douchebags like Rockstar hide the content their games contain. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Triforcer on July 22, 2005, 11:42:58 AM Just out of curiosity, of the people here who hate the ESRB ratings and also think American society is fascist and puritanical for not letting everyone from toddlers on up have easy, free access to unlimited porn, how many of you actually have children? As with so many other issues, its easy to extol the virtues of totally unrestrained hedonism as an angry collegian stoner but harder when you have your own kids. Please shut the fuck up, you neocon titwaggling douchebag. People hate the ESRB ratings (or MPAA) not because they "restrict hedonism" but because they do not achieve the aim they are meant to achieve, i.e. keeping inappropriate content out of children's hands. How many children get into or see R rated movies? Enough. How many kids under 17 get a copy of GTA:SA? Enough. The ratings are meant to help parents understand what is right for their kids, and yet they don't do that because: 1) many parents aren't fit for the title, 2) the ESRB does not do nearly enough PR explaining what their ratings are and why they are important, and 3) their ratings suck ass and are mostly based on silly, backwards hypocrisy. Seriously, that was a really troll-like thing to say. Stop being a crotchpheasant. See the post immediately above your own. I have no quarrel with the argument that much bad parenting DOES go on, but it DOES make my blood boil when Euros pop in to mock us about having any restrictions on sexual expression in society at all or to whine about their right to buy porn at Walmart. That is more of an undercurrent in this thread than you wish to admit. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: voodoolily on July 22, 2005, 11:47:19 AM If the undercurrent is there, and not being addressed seriously, maybe it's because not all of us think that nudity is a big deal. At least not as big a deal as homocide. The Euros got it right on that one.
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: HaemishM on July 22, 2005, 11:48:21 AM Just out of curiosity, of the people here who hate the ESRB ratings and also think American society is fascist and puritanical for not letting everyone from toddlers on up have easy, free access to unlimited porn, how many of you actually have children? As with so many other issues, its easy to extol the virtues of totally unrestrained hedonism as an angry collegian stoner but harder when you have your own kids. Please shut the fuck up, you neocon titwaggling douchebag. People hate the ESRB ratings (or MPAA) not because they "restrict hedonism" but because they do not achieve the aim they are meant to achieve, i.e. keeping inappropriate content out of children's hands. How many children get into or see R rated movies? Enough. How many kids under 17 get a copy of GTA:SA? Enough. The ratings are meant to help parents understand what is right for their kids, and yet they don't do that because: 1) many parents aren't fit for the title, 2) the ESRB does not do nearly enough PR explaining what their ratings are and why they are important, and 3) their ratings suck ass and are mostly based on silly, backwards hypocrisy. Seriously, that was a really troll-like thing to say. Stop being a crotchpheasant. See the post immediately above your own. I have no quarrel with the argument that much bad parenting DOES go on, but it DOES make my blood boil when Euros pop in to mock us about having any restrictions on sexual expression in society at all or to whine about their right to buy porn at Walmart. That is more of an undercurrent in this thread than you wish to admit. See my edited in comments, repeated below. EDIT: And after having read your following posts, wow, you really are a fuckhead. No one here is saying that pr0n should be everywhere on all street corners and that every retailer should have to carry it. Holy fuck, where you got that from, I have no idea. But see, Wal-Mart is being made to carry something that if they really cared about the content, they'd never carry. GTA? Shit, forget that. Wal-Mart should never carry that game because of their own stance about CENSORING MUSIC CD's. They force musicians to re-record edited versions of their entire CD's just to remove curse words. Yet they have no problem selling unaltered M-rated games like GTA: SA, which has more actual violence and cursing than an Easy-E album. The ratings are supposed to let the retailers know what they are selling, and the parents what they are buying. But apparently, they don't do that, which is in part a failure on the ratings system, and in part a failure of the retailer. Notice that the only real action by any of these parties taken against the GTA games only came about because of media and political pressure. And of course, they really don't do that when douchebags like Rockstar hide the content their games contain. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Strazos on July 22, 2005, 11:48:40 AM WHat Haemish said. Post++
I have no problem with games being rated. They just need to be utilized more extensively. I have no qualms about being carded when I buy a "M" rated game. If that would keep it away from people it isn't intended for, and it would end this congressional nonsense. And on pr0n....if you go overseas, you see it in a lot of public places...but it's just not a big deal to them. Sure, it's at every newsstand, but the cashier will probably not sell it to a 10-year-old. Also, Triforcer, your analogy sucks. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Sogrinaugh on July 22, 2005, 11:53:16 AM Sorry, I don't want someone's parenting problems to infringe on me. Parenting should be the responsibility of, you know, the Parents. I'm not saying replace Saturday morning cartoons with pr0n, but people need to calm down about this nonsense. Don't want you kids to be exposed to inappropriate content, such as what may be in a game? Then do your job. There is a fundamental problem of illogic with the two statements common to your side of this debate: 1. "Leave parents to parenting. If they don't want their child exposed to things they don't like they need to do a better job." followed by 2. "Since its the parents responsibility, we should have the right to a society with no moral rules or strictures whatsoever because its not our fault if their kids see it." This argument is like dropping a soldier in the middle of the warzone with no weapons or armor or clothing and telling him to fight. It may be his immediate job to win the war on the ground, but when he loses you are still fucking to blame. Telling parents to "parent better" is all well and good but when you strip them of most of the reasonable means to do so is YOUR FAULT. You can't justify society being unlimitedly hedonistic because parents have a 100% magical ability to shut it all out, because you have systemtically deprived them of the tools they need to shut it out. Furthermore, people need to get real about "protecting the children". You can make whatever jokes you want and call me a perv, but i can remember being kindergarden/pre-school age when i saw my first penthouse, i can even remember vague details about the lesbain spread i couldn't take my eyes off of (dark-haired and well-tanned). I had seen Terminator and Predator both multiple times before i was in second grade. I grew into neither a sociopath nor a sex-offender. No one wants personal accountability, as this leaves them vulnerable to shame and personal failure if thier kid goes columbine. Its a SOCIETAL problem. Sure it is, fuckers. PS: Also nature, but thats a seperate (and uncontrollable) issue entirely. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Sogrinaugh on July 22, 2005, 12:08:27 PM What the fuck are you people, marketing for Rockstar? With each additional post i grow more curious about this game. If i buy it and it sux, im car-bombing your stupid web server... with a chevy impala That sounds like a terroristic threat and I'm afraid the FBI will be contacting you shortly. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Daeven on July 22, 2005, 12:27:53 PM Just out of curiosity, of the people here who hate the ESRB ratings and also think American society is fascist and puritanical for not letting everyone from toddlers on up have easy, free access to unlimited porn, how many of you actually have children? As with so many other issues, its easy to extol the virtues of totally unrestrained hedonism as an angry collegian stoner but harder when you have your own kids. Please shut the fuck up, you neocon titwaggling douchebag. People hate the ESRB ratings (or MPAA) not because they "restrict hedonism" but because they do not achieve the aim they are meant to achieve, i.e. keeping inappropriate content out of children's hands. How many children get into or see R rated movies? Enough. How many kids under 17 get a copy of GTA:SA? Enough. The ratings are meant to help parents understand what is right for their kids, and yet they don't do that because: 1) many parents aren't fit for the title, 2) the ESRB does not do nearly enough PR explaining what their ratings are and why they are important, and 3) their ratings suck ass and are mostly based on silly, backwards hypocrisy. But then, while I may be a 'neocon titwaggling douchebag', I am most certainly not a 'puritianical, fundamentailist, cockgobbler'. So, whatever man. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: HaemishM on July 22, 2005, 12:30:02 PM Thankfully, Daeven, you tend to actually think about what you say, instead of posting inflammatory piles of stupid like the Triforcer Douchebag Neocon Postbot v3.0.
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Shockeye on July 22, 2005, 12:34:25 PM Whenever I see "neocon" I think of "Neocron" and that makes me a little sad.
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Shockeye on July 22, 2005, 12:36:41 PM Quote from: Gamespot Sims 2 content "worse than Hot Coffee" (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22/news_6129609.html) Miami attorney Jack Thompson claims cheat codes makes EA's life sim a pedophile's paradise by showing genitalia; calls for ban on How do you like your hot coffee? If you're Jack Thompson, you like it scalding game publisher's laps. The Miami attorney and anti-gaming activist has done his share to see that games do not fall into the wrong hands--and lately, those hands have belonged to almost everyone. Thompson was among those who spearheaded the recent effort to slap an "Adults Only" rating on Rockstar Games' Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, and he's often been on the forefront of many other gaming issues, several of which have targeted the crime-spree GTA franchise. In the past, he has represented defendants who have been the victims of GTA-inspired crimes, including a triple homicide of three police officers by an 18-year-old boy in Alabama. His beef with San Andreas? Unused code in the game that depicts sexual acts. These minigames can be unlocked by using game cheat devices or patches available on the Internet. Thompson is on a roll--and he's not done yet. His latest goat is a game that doesn't involve guns, carjacking, or prostitutes. He's going after Electronic Arts' The Sims 2. In a manifesto sent today to press outlets, Thompson focuses on dismantling the Entertainment Software Rating Board and exposing what he calls the industry's "latest dirty little secret." The secret's out now, and it involves nude Sims. In the statement, Thompson says, "Sims 2, the latest version of the Sims video game franchise... contains, according to video game news sites, full frontal nudity, including nipples, penises, labia, and pubic hair." The Sims 2 is a "life simulator." In the game, players steer their digital beings around their cyber lives. The actions include everything from the spectacular (getting married, having children, promotions at work) to the mundane (cooking microwaved meals, going to the bathroom, mopping the floor). Such activities, as in real life, sometimes require nudity. EA circumvents inappropriateness by "blurring" out the nether regions, almost to a comical sense. Knowing that the game is popular among all ages, EA has even taken steps to insure that Sims fans aren't exposed to indecent depictions. In the recent expansion pack, Sims 2 University, gamers can send their teenage Sims off to college. However, instead of packing the expansion with keggers and reefer, EA chose to use juice and bubble blowers. Thompson doesn't seem to care. He cites a cheat code that can remove the blur which covers nudity. "The nudity placed there by the publisher/maker, Electronic Arts, is accessed by the use of a simple code that removes what is called “the blur” which obscures the genital areas. In other words, the game was released to the public by the manufacturer knowing that the full frontal nudity was resident on the game and would be accessed by use of a simple code widely provided on the Internet." It's not just the adults that are liberated from their wardrobe. Sims kids can also be nudified, "much to the delight, one can be sure, of pedophiles around the globe who can rehearse, in virtual reality, for their abuse." Were this to be true, Thompson would have his smoking gun, and EA would be forced to recall all copies of the Sims 2. However, it's what's under the blur that Thompson's after, and what happens when the blur is lifted? A simple mannequin-esque smooth body, according to EA. Jeff Brown, vice president of corporate communications at EA, in response to the accusations, told GameSpot, "This is nonsense. We've reviewed 100 percent of the content. There is no content inappropriate for a teen audience. Players never see a nude Sim. If someone with an extreme amount of expertise and time were to remove the pixels, they would see that the Sims have no genitals. They appear like Ken and Barbie." Thompson doesn't buy it. "The sex and the nudity are in the game. That's the point. The blur is an admission that even the 'Ken and Barbie' features should not be displayed. The blur can be disarmed. This is no different than what is in San Andreas, although worse." The last time we checked, the Sims 2 is rated T for teen by the ESRB, which means that anyone 13-years of age with $50 can purchase the title. By Tim Surette -- GameSpot POSTED: 07/22/05 12:06 PM PST It's only going to get worse from here. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Strazos on July 22, 2005, 12:43:40 PM Someone send that man a case of "SHUT THE FUCK UP" Juice.
EDIT: Anyone with programming expertise and time can make a game do whatever they want. The ESRB, VG Industry, Devs, or Publishers are not responsible for this. I might need to make a stop in Miami while I am in Florida. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: NowhereMan on July 22, 2005, 12:52:59 PM Quote from: A Raging Wankstain" It's not just the adults that are liberated from their wardrobe. Sims kids can also be nudified, "much to the delight, one can be sure, of pedophiles around the globe who can rehearse, in virtual reality, for their abuse." Yes this seems like a perfectly rational argument. Pedophiles play this game in order to plan child abuse because, y'know, clearly you can do that with little pixelated people. What's worse is I hear that there's a game out there that features an alleged pedophile going around grabbing his crotch and getting little kids. You could edit that to make the kids nude. I am sure pedophiles have often used Moonwalker to 'rehearse' kidnappings. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Margalis on July 22, 2005, 12:57:24 PM I think the GTA games suck, don't waste your money.
But anyway, this is a can of worms that is going to bleed into things like "your experience may change during online play." Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Shockeye on July 22, 2005, 01:04:02 PM Microsoft is taking a step in the right direction by giving parents tools to restrict what types of games their kids play.
Quote from: GamesIndustry.biz Xbox 360 to feature parental control system (http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=10300) Ellie Gibson 14:44 22/07/2005 Microsoft's next-gen console to check software for age rating restrictions The Xbox 360 will feature a parental locking system that can be used to prevent children from accessing games unsuitable for their age range, according to Japanese website Mainichi. Parents will be able to set-up the console so it will only play games with appropriate age ratings. When users attempt to load a game, the machine will read data from the disk to determine whether it falls into the correct category. In addition, parents will be able to programme the 360 to restrict children's access to online chatrooms. The Mainichi article states that the new features, which have never been included in a games console before, will be built-in to US and European machines as well as Japanese units. There has recently been a storm of controversy in Japan surrounding Rockstar's Grand Theft Auto, before even the Hot Coffee scandal emerged. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Llava on July 22, 2005, 01:04:53 PM I like how he jumps immediately from nudity to pedophilia.
PEDOPHILES ARE PLAYING THE SIMS AND PRACTICING ON IT! Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: tazelbain on July 22, 2005, 01:11:27 PM I smell a thought crime.
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Roac on July 22, 2005, 01:29:07 PM Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: HaemishM on July 22, 2005, 01:45:01 PM Microsoft is taking a step in the right direction by giving parents tools to restrict what types of games their kids play. Quote from: GamesIndustry.biz Xbox 360 to feature parental control system (http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=10300) Ellie Gibson 14:44 22/07/2005 Microsoft's next-gen console to check software for age rating restrictions The Xbox 360 will feature a parental locking system that can be used to prevent children from accessing games unsuitable for their age range, according to Japanese website Mainichi. Parents will be able to set-up the console so it will only play games with appropriate age ratings. When users attempt to load a game, the machine will read data from the disk to determine whether it falls into the correct category. In addition, parents will be able to programme the 360 to restrict children's access to online chatrooms. The Mainichi article states that the new features, which have never been included in a games console before, will be built-in to US and European machines as well as Japanese units. There has recently been a storm of controversy in Japan surrounding Rockstar's Grand Theft Auto, before even the Hot Coffee scandal emerged. As much as I hate the VChip and things like it, I think this is a good idea. It gives Junior something to work on disabling when learning about computers. The Sims thing? If you're going to jump all over Rockstar, you have to jump on the Sims as well. Shit, I'd be worried if my kid started playing the Sims, especially if he was a boy, because I'd think he was turning into a fruit. Or just had really shitty taste in games. But pedophilia? Good one, Jack. People like Jack Thompson can not see the qualitative difference between nude and nekkid. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: WayAbvPar on July 22, 2005, 02:17:37 PM I am still trying to scrub my eyes after reading the words labia and Sims in the same sentence.
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Fargull on July 22, 2005, 02:27:15 PM I vote we start burning all the copies of The Sims and anything ever produced from R*, Damn JD Salinger while we are at it.
Fucking fundies. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Evangolis on July 22, 2005, 02:31:28 PM What took Jack Thompson so long?
No one here is saying that pr0n should be everywhere on all street corners and that every retailer should have to carry it. Well, let me fix that. The entire system of censoring violence and sex, directly or via ratings, is a giant crock of hypocrisy. Take football alone, where large men, often from economically deprived backgrounds, perform ritualistic violence on each other, with the inevitable results of injury, permanent disability for most, and death on rare occasions, for our amusement. We attach to that a variety of sexual images, mostly centered on the fetishistic cheerleader as an underage sex object. We then use this combination to sell sex-enhancing drugs and alcohol to the resultant audience, along with other consumer products. Several of the most prominent figures in the ownership game are politically active social conservatives. This behavior is never questioned, even though we use government funds to support the game in our schools, even though it has been linked to physical injury to and drug abuse by children. Indeed, school children that do not actively endorse such behavior are likely to face social pressure to conform. To ignore this activity while making a colossal stink about cartoon characters is both hypocritical and self-deluding. And there are other examples like this. The fact is, our society lies about this stuff, and it starts by lying to itself. Ratings systems are a big part of that lie. Just for the record, I love football. I loved watching Doug Plank, who routinely hit people hard enough to give himself minor concussions. I loved Walter Payton's punishing style of running. And I laughed my ass off the first time I saw the Swedish Bikini Team. But I don't really have a problem with Hot Coffee, either. What pisses me off is the lies and hypocrisy that retailers, Rockstar and the politicos on all sides, and our society as well, are engaging in here. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Samwise on July 22, 2005, 02:34:41 PM Jack Thompson has irritated me to the point of emailing him and trying to provoke a discussion - the only other person who's ever irritated me this much is Bill Schnoebelen (http://www.chick.com/articles/dnd.asp) (sadly, I don't have the copy of the email where I got him to sweepingly condemn all art as sinful). If I get anything entertaining I'll share it.
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: NowhereMan on July 22, 2005, 02:58:42 PM Y'know, I hear that some paintings contain nudity. I saw we start checking ID cards at art galleries and museums before we find ourselves with a generation of pedophillic rapists.
NB: I'm not trying to equate GTASA with art or anything, I just find it odd that a 17 year old watching simulated sex is a cause for outcry when children can see naked people at a far younger age in art galleries. Hell if they find a sculpture gallery they can even touch naughty bits. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Samwise on July 22, 2005, 03:18:47 PM I'm not trying to equate GTASA with art or anything. Why on earth not? (No irony intended - I think GTA is pretty damn artistic.) Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Daydreamer on July 22, 2005, 03:38:35 PM What took Jack Thompson so long? No one here is saying that pr0n should be everywhere on all street corners and that every retailer should have to carry it. Well, let me fix that. The entire system of censoring violence and sex, directly or via ratings, is a giant crock of hypocrisy. Take football alone, where large men, often from economically deprived backgrounds, perform ritualistic violence on each other, with the inevitable results of injury, permanent disability for most, and death on rare occasions, for our amusement. We attach to that a variety of sexual images, mostly centered on the fetishistic cheerleader as an underage sex object. We then use this combination to sell sex-enhancing drugs and alcohol to the resultant audience, along with other consumer products. Several of the most prominent figures in the ownership game are politically active social conservatives. This behavior is never questioned, even though we use government funds to support the game in our schools, even though it has been linked to physical injury to and drug abuse by children. Indeed, school children that do not actively endorse such behavior are likely to face social pressure to conform. To ignore this activity while making a colossal stink about cartoon characters is both hypocritical and self-deluding. And there are other examples like this. The fact is, our society lies about this stuff, and it starts by lying to itself. Ratings systems are a big part of that lie. The difference is two-fold I think. First, from movies to television to sports and other things we are taught to like violent and sexual imagery but frown upon sex and violence themselves. Skimpy skintight body suits are accepted, but Janet's wardrobe malfunction is not. Sports/Mainstream media are socially accepted outlets because they are veiled and at one remove, where as Hot Coffee makes fun of our views of sex directly. The end result on consumers is likely nearly the same, but that owuld never stand up in the court of public opinion. Second, if you say the century old sport of football is violent and sexual, people think you are a crank. If you say the same about an industry that has been capable of producing recognizable human characters for what? 10-12 years max? You get elected to public office. When boundaries are pushed, the age of the medium has been a key factor for the last century. I think arguing about other mediums, or direct vs. indirect exposure, is likely to do the industry more harm than good howver true they may or may not be. And since Rockstar isn't likely to take more of the blame that it can plausibly shovel off onto others, and the ESRB looks useless to most now, a sacrificial Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Margalis on July 22, 2005, 04:33:52 PM I've always thought that the worst things for kids are things that normalize terrible behavior. A good example of that is "Friends". Pretty much everyone on the show has fucked everyone else, they are all incredibly shallow and stupid, Joey sleeps with every woman alive, etc etc. But they are portrayed as relatively normal.
The guys on Seinfeld did crazy things but every KNEW they were crazy. There was not a pretense of being in a normal situation. In that same way things like comic books and video games make no pretense at being normal, they are clearly fantasy. What's dangerous are things that are fantasy but not clearly so. Those are the kinds of things impressionable people emulate, knowingly or unknowingly. Sure, there are 8 year olds that emulate Mighty Morphin Power Rangers or GTA or Looney Toons, but there are teens that emulate the more "realistic" crap. A show like Friends routinely displays an abnormal but possible situation as normal. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Merusk on July 22, 2005, 07:01:03 PM Jack Thompson has irritated me to the point of emailing him and trying to provoke a discussion - the only other person who's ever irritated me this much is Bill Schnoebelen (http://www.chick.com/articles/dnd.asp) (sadly, I don't have the copy of the email where I got him to sweepingly condemn all art as sinful). If I get anything entertaining I'll share it. You would get nowhere. I don't mean you wouldn't move him, I mean he's fucking crazy and very-well reasoned e-mails have been responded to with one liner put-downs. Replies to these have been responded to with "stop playing games so you can think again." Check out the posts from Reverend Slim at this link. (http://www.redassedbaboon.com/forum/showthread.php?t=204&page=1&pp=10) Stormwaltz in the thread about this over at Corpnews expressed his concern that even a tiny victory on Thompson's part would embolden him to go after other games. ANY game that he decided wasn't ok. Unfortunatly, Storm was right and Thompson's next target wasn't WoW or EQ or even Quake. It's the Sims 2 (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22/news_6129609.html). A wackjob who hates games on principle is amusing in the 'why didn't he join the meninites?' kind of way. A wackjob who thinks he's got momentum in his crusade gets frightening. If this wackjob actually gets support I'll be downright scared. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Samwise on July 22, 2005, 08:29:51 PM Jack Thompson has irritated me to the point of emailing him and trying to provoke a discussion - the only other person who's ever irritated me this much is Bill Schnoebelen (http://www.chick.com/articles/dnd.asp) (sadly, I don't have the copy of the email where I got him to sweepingly condemn all art as sinful). If I get anything entertaining I'll share it. You would get nowhere. I don't mean you wouldn't move him, I mean he's fucking crazy and very-well reasoned e-mails have been responded to with one liner put-downs. Replies to these have been responded to with "stop playing games so you can think again." Check out the posts from Reverend Slim at this link. (http://www.redassedbaboon.com/forum/showthread.php?t=204&page=1&pp=10) Thanks muchly for the link. At least I know not to spend too much time composing long emails to him. :wink: That was my first impulse, but instead I just asked him point blank why he flat-out lied in his statements on The Sims 2 (the part where he said that the game had full frontal nudity, which is as far as I can tell completely without any basis in fact), and whether he was concerned about libel suits from EA (which it seems like they'd have ample ground for, if my understanding of libel is at all correct). Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: AOFanboi on July 23, 2005, 05:41:30 AM People from EA have stated - correctly as far as I know - that the Sims/Sims 2 attacks are without basis in reality, and that nude sims are as featureless as Ken and Barbie. I guess he took a wild guess and jumped on it. Another sad example of foot-in-mouth disease, plz put him out of his misery.
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Evangolis on July 23, 2005, 06:52:22 AM The difference is two-fold I think. ... Second, if you say the century old sport of football is violent and sexual, people think you are a crank. If you say the same about an industry that has been capable of producing recognizable human characters for what? 10-12 years max? You get elected to public office. When boundaries are pushed, the age of the medium has been a key factor for the last century. I think arguing about other mediums, or direct vs. indirect exposure, is likely to do the industry more harm than good howver true they may or may not be. And since Rockstar isn't likely to take more of the blame that it can plausibly shovel off onto others, and the ESRB looks useless to most now, a sacrificial I'd say the difference is one-fold; that going after the NFL for sex and violence is a political third-rail. No politician would survive the experience. But I'm not running for office, and I'm not a crank, I'm just a cranky middle-aged guy, who is sick of this political game. The emporer has no clothes, and I think game advocates are wrong to play along with the lie that he does. Americans are sufficently cynical to recognize why a group like the NFL gets a pass and games get the heat, and it does us no favors to play along with the big boys. Comics proved that self-ghettoizing is a mistake, and we shouldn't repeat that mistake. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: NowhereMan on July 23, 2005, 09:00:46 AM I'm not trying to equate GTASA with art or anything. Why on earth not? (No irony intended - I think GTA is pretty damn artistic.) Primarily because I didn't want to get bogged down into an argument about GTA not being art and therefore entirely different from classical nudes. I haven't played San Andreas but I've played the other GTAs and tbh I think they're great fun with a lot of violence thrown in for shock value. Don't get me wrong, I think they're fun games and it is kind of cool to play the bad guy (thought generally not the baddest guy) but I don't think that is enough to make them art. I very much doubt there's some attempt to make a comment on people's preconceptions of right and wrong or what is or is not acceptable. If that were the case they could have stopped with the first one. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Llava on July 23, 2005, 02:06:21 PM People from EA have stated - correctly as far as I know - that the Sims/Sims 2 attacks are without basis in reality, and that nude sims are as featureless as Ken and Barbie. I guess he took a wild guess and jumped on it. Another sad example of foot-in-mouth disease, plz put him out of his misery. He probably just assumed that when you give birth to one of these little digital people, they come out anatomically correct. I mean, how else would there be so many of them? Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Murgos on July 24, 2005, 07:46:56 AM I'm sure there is some mod some where that paints genitalia onto the image used for the sims skins. Good luck getting that in front of a judge with EA's legal team poking you in the eye with thier engorged phalluses.
EA's response is the correct one, "We have no fucking idea what your talking about." Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Samwise on July 24, 2005, 11:52:26 AM I really think EA should sue this guy for trying to damage their business with malicious and false claims about their game's content. It might help deter others from spouting off about how Doom is a rape simulator or whatever.
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Samwise on July 24, 2005, 02:34:26 PM Maddox weighs in on Hot Coffee. (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ticket_to_hell)
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Daydreamer on July 25, 2005, 03:34:34 AM I'd say the difference is one-fold; that going after the NFL for sex and violence is a political third-rail. No politician would survive the experience. More or less what I was trying to argue condensed into 2 sentences. Well put and I concur. But I'm not running for office, and I'm not a crank, I'm just a cranky middle-aged guy, who is sick of this political game. The emporer has no clothes, and I think game advocates are wrong to play along with the lie that he does. Americans are sufficently cynical to recognize why a group like the NFL gets a pass and games get the heat, and it does us no favors to play along with the big boys. Comics proved that self-ghettoizing is a mistake, and we shouldn't repeat that mistake. Here I have to disagree. The political process in this regard is indeed screwed, and I agree that we shouldn't follow comics down their path, but I think we do have to play ball at least a little. We have make the appropriate noises and frown at Rockstar and pray for a political storm, because I don't think most Americans can see past games as violent sexploitation, past the 60 billion dollar (or whatever) industry schitck, because if Hiliary Clinton decides our subjugation will make her trip to the White House easier she will most certainly do it. And if a little whoring on our part as gamers and game developers is the price we have to pay to do as we please, then so be it - I do not want to see the day where I have to buy a censored whoreless non-violent GTA sequel in a brown paper bag from behind the counter, while the cute female cashier treats me like a leper. I hate politics, but I love my violent blood-drench titty-charged virtual crime sprees more. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Ironwood on July 25, 2005, 04:03:23 AM I do not want to see the day where I have to buy a censored whoreless non-violent GTA sequel in a brown paper bag from behind the counter, while the cute female cashier treats me like a leper. So, you want a working digital distribution model then. Ooops, I dropped my can of worms. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Bunk on July 25, 2005, 08:22:04 AM Quote from: Gamespot Sims 2 content "worse than Hot Coffee" (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22/news_6129609.html) Miami attorney Jack Thompson claims cheat codes makes EA's life sim a pedophile's paradise by showing genitalia; calls for ban on snip Thompson is on a roll--and he's not done yet. His latest goat is a game that doesn't involve guns, carjacking, or prostitutes. He's going after Electronic Arts' The Sims 2. In a manifesto sent today to press outlets, Thompson focuses on dismantling the Entertainment Software Rating Board and exposing what he calls the industry's "latest dirty little secret." The secret's out now, and it involves nude Sims. In the statement, Thompson says, "Sims 2, the latest version of the Sims video game franchise... contains, according to video game news sites, full frontal nudity, including nipples, penises, labia, and pubic hair." The Sims 2 is a "life simulator." In the game, players steer their digital beings around their cyber lives. The actions include everything from the spectacular (getting married, having children, promotions at work) to the mundane (cooking microwaved meals, going to the bathroom, mopping the floor). Such activities, as in real life, sometimes require nudity. EA circumvents inappropriateness by "blurring" out the nether regions, almost to a comical sense. Thompson doesn't seem to care. He cites a cheat code that can remove the blur which covers nudity. "The nudity placed there by the publisher/maker, Electronic Arts, is accessed by the use of a simple code that removes what is called “the blur” which obscures the genital areas. In other words, the game was released to the public by the manufacturer knowing that the full frontal nudity was resident on the game and would be accessed by use of a simple code widely provided on the Internet." It's not just the adults that are liberated from their wardrobe. Sims kids can also be nudified, "much to the delight, one can be sure, of pedophiles around the globe who can rehearse, in virtual reality, for their abuse." Were this to be true, Thompson would have his smoking gun, and EA would be forced to recall all copies of the Sims 2. However, it's what's under the blur that Thompson's after, and what happens when the blur is lifted? A simple mannequin-esque smooth body, according to EA. Jeff Brown, vice president of corporate communications at EA, in response to the accusations, told GameSpot, "This is nonsense. We've reviewed 100 percent of the content. There is no content inappropriate for a teen audience. Players never see a nude Sim. If someone with an extreme amount of expertise and time were to remove the pixels, they would see that the Sims have no genitals. They appear like Ken and Barbie." Thompson doesn't buy it. "The sex and the nudity are in the game. That's the point. The blur is an admission that even the 'Ken and Barbie' features should not be displayed. The blur can be disarmed. This is no different than what is in San Andreas, although worse." The last time we checked, the Sims 2 is rated T for teen by the ESRB, which means that anyone 13-years of age with $50 can purchase the title. By Tim Surette -- GameSpot POSTED: 07/22/05 12:06 PM PST It's only going to get worse from here. What a fucking cockmucher. God this guy pisses me off. This is one of those cases where EA should sue his ass off for writing this shit. Being somewhat of an expert on the stupid game (sad, i know), there is absolutely no inappropriate content in that game, or unlockable in that game. I'm surprised this assmunch didn't go on to a tirade about how inaproriate it is since you can have two people of the same gender kiss in it. Are there mods out there that would give the sims genitalia? Sure there are. Does EA have anything to do with said mods? No. Hell, EA didn't even release mod tools for manipulating models, those had to be written from scratch by the modding community. Any game that that uses humanoid models can be remodeled or reskinned to have big honking penises. Whee! Lets just ban any depiction of humans in games, since it might be used to harm the kiddies. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Murgos on July 25, 2005, 08:30:02 AM Quote This is no different than what is in San Andreas, although worse." Heh. It's etiher no different or it's worse make up your mind please. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Merusk on July 28, 2005, 03:45:43 AM The Plot Thickens, grandmother sues over sex scenes. (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=24958)
Quote Woman sues Rockstar over sex scenes My poor grandson By Nick Farrell: Thursday 28 July 2005, 09:04 AN 85 year old grandmother is suing Rockstar games after she discovered the version of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas contained hidden, sexually explicit scenes. Apparently Florence Cohen bought the game for her 14 year old grandson because it was rated M "for mature" not adults only. The Entertainment Software Ratings Board changed the ranking to Adults Only after a mod was developed which opened up a sex scene sequences. When Flo discovered this she ordered that the game be taken away from her grandson, who we are sure was grateful for his gran’s intervention. Cohen sought unspecified damages on behalf of herself and all consumers nationwide, saying the company should give up its profits from the game for what amounted to false advertising, consumer deception and unfair business practices. Her brief, Laurence Paskowitz, said no parent would knowingly buy an adult-only video game for their children. He said that Rockstar should really make sure this doesn't happen again and at least offer refunds. Ironically, even if her grandson had managed to run the mod, the sex scenes are the only legal act in the game, which includes shooting anything that moves and stealing cars. But according to the New York Daily News, Flo comes from the Bronx so perhaps she find that normal Of course, with all the sharks in the water, it was only a matter of time. (https://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/case/grand_theft_auto_san_andreas_rating_class_action?ref=gta_san_andreas_overture) Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Samprimary on July 28, 2005, 03:48:08 AM Quote The creator of the game, Rockstar Games, has stated that it will offer a downloadable patch to fix the sex issue in the PC versions, and is working on a new version of the game that will prevent this content from being unlocked in the future. Thank God. I'll be the first person to download and patch my PC version of "Grand Theft Auto." I want to shoot people in the face, bang prostitutes, traffic drugs, steal cars, and terrorize police officers without this filthy smut in my game. Frankly, I'm appalled that Rockstar would allow such wholesale corruption of our youth. Years from now when America has become a withered husk of the morality it once stood for, historians will look back at what triggered it all and point to one event: a boolean variable that unlocked a simulated sex scene in a video game. I do like Maddox, I do. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Murgos on July 28, 2005, 05:48:34 AM Ironically, even if her grandson had managed to run the mod, the sex scenes are the only legal act in the game, which includes shooting anything that moves and stealing cars. Heh. The kid is 14 and lives in the Bronx, seriously, how much innocence could he have had in the first place? Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Evangolis on July 28, 2005, 07:11:29 AM Here I have to disagree. The political process in this regard is indeed screwed, and I agree that we shouldn't follow comics down their path, but I think we do have to play ball at least a little. ... I don’t think we should back down at all. Rockstar made a mistake, for which the ESRB punished them. Rockstar and Take Two have been severely punished by the marketplace, to a degree far exceeding Sony BMG’s punishment for their deliberate payola violations (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=4111.0). For games, the system has in fact worked correctly, and properly addressed a problem that could only happen if the end-user was complicit in its occurrence. Why should more action be needed? In fact, I think the games industry should do a little grass roots counter-action. I think that it would be good if there were a few web-based flash games (E-rated) made satirizing some of our noble lawmakers. We should extract a political cost for what is political grandstanding, not public policy. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Daeven on July 28, 2005, 07:48:59 AM Quote from: Merusk Apparently Florence Cohen bought the game for her 14 year old grandson because it was rated M "for mature" not adults only. *Head explodes*Save us Darwin, save us! You are our only hope. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: HaemishM on July 28, 2005, 08:49:49 AM The Plot Thickens, grandmother sues over sex scenes. (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=24958) Quote Woman sues Rockstar over sex scenes My poor grandson By Nick Farrell: Thursday 28 July 2005, 09:04 AN 85 year old grandmother is suing Rockstar games after she discovered the version of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas contained hidden, sexually explicit scenes. Apparently Florence Cohen bought the game for her 14 year old grandson because it was rated M "for mature" not adults only. The Entertainment Software Ratings Board changed the ranking to Adults Only after a mod was developed which opened up a sex scene sequences. When Flo discovered this she ordered that the game be taken away from her grandson, who we are sure was grateful for his gran’s intervention. Cohen sought unspecified damages on behalf of herself and all consumers nationwide, saying the company should give up its profits from the game for what amounted to false advertising, consumer deception and unfair business practices. Her brief, Laurence Paskowitz, said no parent would knowingly buy an adult-only video game for their children. He said that Rockstar should really make sure this doesn't happen again and at least offer refunds. Ironically, even if her grandson had managed to run the mod, the sex scenes are the only legal act in the game, which includes shooting anything that moves and stealing cars. But according to the New York Daily News, Flo comes from the Bronx so perhaps she find that normal Of course, with all the sharks in the water, it was only a matter of time. (https://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/case/grand_theft_auto_san_andreas_rating_class_action?ref=gta_san_andreas_overture) FUCK COCK SHITSTAINED RATBAG BALLLICKING FESTERING CUNTHAIR DOUCHEBAGS Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: MrHat on July 28, 2005, 01:43:04 PM Haha.
You even have to COURT the lady to get to that point. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Samwise on July 31, 2005, 06:14:25 PM Apparently as soon as the rating change was announced, every store that had the newly-AO version of San Andreas in stock sold out nearly instantly. It'll be pretty scarce to come by until the decaf version comes out.
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Ironwood on August 01, 2005, 04:07:34 AM No such thing as bad publicity.
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Abel on August 01, 2005, 06:20:52 AM This reminds me when the first GTA got a +18 rating in the UK, which also was predicted to limit their sales.
As a result Rock star cleverly build their UK marketing campaign on the very fact that the game got a "cool" +18 rating. Subsequently it became a big seller in the UK ... The most popular GTA3:SA patch will be the soon-to-be-released unofficial one that patches the "hot coffee" nudity into the new M-rated version, instead of the one that's going to clean up the banned M-rated version. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Pococurante on August 01, 2005, 08:38:12 AM mission accomplished :roll:
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Trippy on August 01, 2005, 06:35:04 PM No such thing as bad publicity. It's going to cost Take Two around $40-$50 million to handle the returns of GTA:SA and their stock took a couple of hits when they announced lower expectations for the year because of the costs and estimated loss of sales involved and then again when the FTC announced they were investigating TT though the stock has recovered somewhat from those drops.Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Sky on August 02, 2005, 07:11:22 AM Is it wrong for me to risk the wrath of my girlfriend by always asking her up to my apartment with "Hey baby, want to come up for some HOT COFFEE??"
Because I do ;) Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Roac on August 02, 2005, 08:46:58 AM Is it wrong for me to risk the wrath of my girlfriend by always asking her up to my apartment with "Hey baby, want to come up for some HOT COFFEE??" Because I do ;) Button mashing ftw. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Samwise on August 02, 2005, 09:39:46 AM Button mashing only works at the gym. And when bicycling.
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Sky on August 02, 2005, 11:49:50 AM You shouldn't really mash the button before she's ready, anyway. Too much.
She does enjoy some of the combo moves, though. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Samwise on August 03, 2005, 07:04:03 PM A public service message. (http://www.f13.net/index2.php?subaction=showfull&id=1123119762&archive=&start_from=&ucat=1&)
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Paelos on August 03, 2005, 08:23:22 PM A public service message. (http://www.f13.net/index2.php?subaction=showfull&id=1123119762&archive=&start_from=&ucat=1&) THE REAL AMERICAN HEROOOOOO... Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: HaemishM on August 04, 2005, 08:10:46 AM Look at the goddamn box. What a fucking concept.
The ESRB is failing at its job miserably, and the industry has only itself to blame for publicity-hungry politicians who've never played Pac-Man, much less GTA, trying to shut the industry down, or fuck it into a corner. Those kinds of posters should be on every game store wall. But that might take up precious shelf space from EA, precious shelf space used to stuff another 40 units of Madden 2006 into 6 square inches. The retailers are taking none of the blame or the bad publicity for this either, and that's because the game companies are either too greedy (EA) or too wussy to tell them to stop being douchebags. Of course, parents could have averted all of this by actually being fucking responsible for their kids, and not blaming their kids faults on video games (or movies, or books, or comic books, or Internet pr0n), but that's a fucking fantasy land in America, where personal responsibility is a four-letter word with an AO rating. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Yegolev on August 04, 2005, 08:32:42 AM Great article. Really.
People like to hate on EA, but I submit that if EA published GTA instead of Take 2, there would be some serious boom-lowering at your local EB, assuming that EA wasn't able to pay off/intimidate the ESRB in the first place. EA is the closest thing to a real corporate machine in the gaming industry, and that is basically the sort of dick-swinging giant we need on our side when the Congressional hearings start. Lesser of two evils, indeed. EDIT: I recently decided that the cute rating symbols should be replaced with an numeral that indicates the age group. First off it would escape the "NC-17" stigma that an "AO" symbol brings, and second it would leave less room for ignorance-as-a-defense asshats. 0+, 5+, 13+, 18+, how easy is that shit? Damn committees. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Samwise on August 04, 2005, 08:49:53 AM 0+, 5+, 13+, 18+, how easy is that shit? OMG MATH IS HARD THOUGH! The current M rating symbol does have "17+" right there next to the M, but people still seem to have problems with that. Really, it needs color. No other way around it. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Yegolev on August 04, 2005, 09:02:15 AM 0+
7+ 13+ 18+ No letters, just a list of reasons like what we already have below the numbers. Put big posters in the retail outlets. Not that they do this for DVDs. Anyone who claims ignorance after that, we can emboss these ratings on a baseball bat and club them to death with it. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: HaemishM on August 04, 2005, 09:28:32 AM Fuck it. For the M rating, just put a gigantic sticker of Satan on the front of the box, obscuring most of the artwork. Just a big honking Lucifer, maybe impaling a sinner or something. Maybe that'll be clear enough.
And for AO, just paste a giant fucking cock all over it. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Paelos on August 04, 2005, 09:33:59 AM Fuck it. For the M rating, just put a gigantic sticker of Satan on the front of the box, obscuring most of the artwork. Just a big honking Lucifer, maybe impaling a sinner or something. Maybe that'll be clear enough. And for AO, just paste a giant fucking cock all over it. That's very Fight Club of you. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: schild on August 04, 2005, 09:38:53 AM And that's why we don't talk about AO rated games.
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Merusk on August 04, 2005, 09:47:29 AM A public service message. (http://www.f13.net/index2.php?subaction=showfull&id=1123119762&archive=&start_from=&ucat=1&) I think I'm going to print that out, put it on some board and go paste it in the loacal BB, Target and Wal*Mart this weekend. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: MrHat on August 04, 2005, 10:08:12 AM A public service message. (http://www.f13.net/index2.php?subaction=showfull&id=1123119762&archive=&start_from=&ucat=1&) Slashdot that mother fucker. Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Hanzii on August 04, 2005, 12:02:40 PM Magnificent
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Sky on August 05, 2005, 06:26:21 AM Common sense isn't.
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Daydreamer on August 07, 2005, 12:58:37 AM Huh, I always figured Teen games to be clsoe to 15+ than 13+, but maybe thats just me.
But, either way, excellent public service message. Now if only we had a distribution channel of some size, and maybe some staple guns to pry peoples eyelids open when in their vicinity. Yea... Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: schild on August 07, 2005, 08:00:19 PM Samwise, I just noticed something about your GTA screenshot...
You can have conjugal visits in San Andreas? Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Samwise on August 07, 2005, 09:47:08 PM No, one of the girls you date is a cop, and you always pick her up and drop her off at the police station. So when you go in for coffee, you do it in a cell. :-D
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: thing_bob on November 08, 2005, 04:31:27 AM I was just thinking, that suing rockstar for releasing a game that was eventully edited like this by "someone else", is like arresting the parents of a murder victim for giving birth to a child that was eventually killed by "someone else"
Title: Re: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB. Post by: Ironwood on November 08, 2005, 05:37:24 AM Er, what ?
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