f13.net

They stopped using Thimerosol in the US in 2003. I doubt they would have done that if there wasn't something to the allegations.  I have no faith in the FDA or CDC after all the rediculous suppression of bad medical facts (Vioxx anyone?) to protect the bottom line of big drug companies.

The scientific evidence early in the Vioxx investigations were pretty skewed.  If you look at the test populations you'd see that they were looking for a pretty specific outcome. There's a lot more to that story than most people will ever know.  In my professional opinion, Vioxx is a very good drug when use for very specific circumstances.  The overprescription of Vioxx was the greatest blame in its downfall.  It just goes to show you that many MD's still get their pharmacy training from drug reps that put on nice lunches.

I would read this, but Lindsay Lohan is talking about her weightloss on E!

You contributed to the Herbie bank?

Boooooo.

The scientific evidence early in the Vioxx investigations were pretty skewed.  If you look at the test populations you'd see that they were looking for a pretty specific outcome. There's a lot more to that story than most people will ever know.  In my professional opinion, Vioxx is a very good drug when use for very specific circumstances.  The overprescription of Vioxx was the greatest blame in its downfall.  It just goes to show you that many MD's still get their pharmacy training from drug reps that put on nice lunches.

The Opposition link you posted was a good read.

At least in this area Orac shows some temperance: mercury levels are rising across the board as seen in first wave predators like fish and amphibians.  The US has been particularly aggressive the last few years relaxing or abolishing regulations restricting mercury emissions.  Industrial expansion is breathtaking around the globe and while America's premium controls are still superior it's no surprise the problem of chronic conditions traditionally associated with heavy metals is worsening.

Parents need to make sure their kid's vaccines use some other form of preservative.  Yes they are more expensive.  No insurance may not cover it.  But there are worse things one can do to a kid.

Poc, what is Orac?  I was under the impression that Mercury was being controlled to even a greater degree, but your saying it was actually being relaxed?

Yes.  I know I was not well informed when my son was born about what was being used for immunization, only told what he needed.  I now do not give my boy anything without first doing research into what exactly is being proscribed.

Based on (arguements above) it can be seen that the FDA risk assessment for Thimerosal is based on multiple questionable assumptions. One of these ignores fundamental Physiologically Based Pharmacokinetic (PBPK) considerations, another incorrectly endorses the Reference dose (Rfd) concept as applicable to short term exposures, the last assumes that what is true of methylmercury is true of ethylmercury.

Flaws in the logic of those who overestimate risk from dental amalgams or mercury in vaccines are attributable to a pervasive misunderstanding among the toxicologically uninitiated - a fundamental confusion between the concepts of "exposure" and "dose". Although the concept, once understood, is trivially obvious, patients are still spending large amounts of money to have their amalgams removed and parents are questioning whether they have caused harm in their children by having them vaccinated.  In our society the determination of risks from chemical exposures is a major issue for regulators and lawmakers.  The implications of these determinations are huge.  Let us not forget that the assessment of risk from chemical exposure requires a compulsive application of basic toxicologic principles.

I teach the clinical toxicology of heavy metals and find that there just isn't enough evidence to support the claims made by the FDA.  I almost feel that they are merely bowing to political pressures and cowtowing to the pharmaceutical industry in an attempt to support more costly (aka profitable) preservatives in vaccines.

So what has prevented the industry in more than half a century from using preservatives not based on heavy metals.  I ask this question as a businessman sensitive to market pressures and my company's perceived weaknesses that can be exploited by my competitors.

Are you comfortable studies have been broad and deep enough to rule out any influence at all regardless of the physiology of all people?  In your quote by Brent all I see is very careful phrasing that something *should* not be a problem if I just understood "what is true of methylmercury is true of ethylmercury".

I didn't read any of the articles linked, so I don't have an opinion.

I didn't read any of the articles linked, so I don't have an opinion.  I just wanted to add that apparently, thimeserol was used in contact lens solutions for a long time.  When I first got contacts, most of the cleaning solutions (I think?) that I bought claimed in proud letters "Now with no thimeserol".

How many of you wear contacts?  That could explain a thing or two.  /rimshot

I haven't been particularly ill for years.

When the office gets the plague, I make sure I have enough vitamin C in me to turn into an orange, and usually come out ok. It's a good thing, too, because I'm a total pussy when I'm sick.

They've shown vitamin C doesn't do squat. (http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-hsdrug4330743jul05,0,4010287.story?coll=ny-health-headlines)

Belief. 

Leave my placebo habits alone. Next you'll tell me recycling doesn't actually help the environment.

Where I grew up (hello hurricane) the local Monsanto plant kept on pushing the thumbs up for the enviroment, but a good friend of mine's dad worked as a security officer at the plant and would tell us stories of watching birds fly through the plume and then plummet dead on the other side.

In one of my former occupations, I used to be an emissions tester.  Usually stack emissions enter the atmosphere at 500+ degrees F and they are clean from everywhere BUT coal fired power plants.  I would guess the birds got hit by the 500 degree plume and got cooked.

Which is fine and a heart-warming story.  Except when the shielding fails and the lake is fucked forevermore.

Just sayin'.

Autistic Boy Dies After Undergoing Unproven Treatment (http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBQUHJNTCE.html)

By Jennifer C. Yates Associated Press Writer
Published: Aug 25, 2005

PITTSBURGH (AP) - An autistic boy died after receiving an unproven treatment that some people believe may cure the neurological and developmental disorder.

Officials said they do not know for sure what killed Abubakar Tariq Nadama, 5, who died Tuesday after suffering a heart attack following his third treatment of chelation therapy at a suburban medical clinic.

The staff at his doctor's office performed CPR on the boy, but he was later pronounced dead in a hospital. More tests would be needed to determine the cause of death, said Deputy Coroner Larry Barr.

Chelation (pronounced key-LAY-tion) is often used in patients with sickle cell anemia, lead poisoning or other maladies. Its use dates to the 1940s.

The boy was undergoing the therapy at the Advanced Integrative Medicine Center in Portersville, about 35 miles northwest of Pittsburgh. Neither the boy's doctor, Roy E. Kerry, nor a representative from the center returned a call for comment Thursday.

State police also were investigating.

Some people believe autism can be linked to a mercury-containing preservative once commonly used in childhood vaccines. Chelation therapy has been advocated as a remedy because it causes heavy metals to leave the body through urine.

During the treatment, chemicals are administered under the skin or orally. The chemicals bind to heavy metals in the body, and patients excrete the chemicals through urine.

One of the most common uses for chelation is lead poisoning, in which a synthetic chemical called EDTA is given to patients. It's unclear exactly how many people undergo the treatment.

"There are thousands of patients getting chelation at home at night in many parts of the world. And it's generally considered quite safe," said Dr. Lakshmanan Krishnamurti, a pediatric hematologist and director of the Sickle Cell Program at Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh.

The Food and Drug Administration has approved chelation only for acute heavy-metal poisoning that is confirmed by blood tests. Critics call the treatment risky and say there isn't enough evidence to link autism to mercury or lead toxicity.

"If I were a parent considering it, I would probably stop considering it. There is no clear evidence that you can make kids better with this," said Dr. Gervasio A. Lamas, a cardiologist at the Mount Sinai Medical Center-Miami Heart Institute.

Lamas said the therapy comes with risks, including possible kidney damage and in some cases heart problems.

The boy's mother, Marwa Nadama, said she did not blame the therapy, but was waiting for results of an autopsy.

Everyone loves to blame the "money-grubbing" drug companies. All drugs and medical devices go through an extensive testing process with strict standards. Then the device/drug get approved (or not) by a government entity, the FDA.

There is no possible way to test every substance with 100% reliability. We would have no drugs at all if that was the standard. Yes, it would be great to figure out why autism has spiked but taking to the streets like an angry mob doesn't solve anything.

I knew those villagers with pitchforks and torches were heading someplace specific last night.

Are you positioning literate arguments with mob mentality?

Everyone loves to blame the "money-grubbing" drug companies.

Everyone loves to blame the "money-grubbing" drug companies. All drugs and medical devices go through an extensive testing process with strict standards. Then the device/drug get approved (or not) by a government entity, the FDA.