Title: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Xilren's Twin on June 20, 2005, 02:21:51 PM Well, one thing I received this Father's day was the homemade "go get a big screen TV" card. (I suspect my kids view this as a gift they would love to have in the house anyway, but bless the little buggers none the less).
Knowing their are several resident TV techonphiles herebouts (hi Sky!), Im open to any and all suggestions as I begin my comparative shopping extravaganza! Throw in your two cents, recommend a TV that will make me rearrange my living room! Price is no object....well, scratch that, Im not dropping 10 grand on a tv, but I'll listen to almost anything. Xilren Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Viin on June 20, 2005, 04:41:19 PM I know I've said it in other threads, but I think the new Samsung DLP TV's are the way to go.
Samsungs website: http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_subtype.jsp?eUser=&prod_path=%2fAudio+and+Video%2fTV%2fDLP+TV Avs Forum's discussion on the Samsung DLP TVs: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=493443 But, there's tons of options out there. Check avsforum.com (http://www.avsforum.com/) for lots of opinions. Personally, I like the DLP TV's because they are a) a good size, b) don't weigh a ton, c) have great contrast ratios (now), d) support all kinds of connections.. and my personal favorite: e) won't break the bank (as cheap as $2700 for the new DLP tech!). I'm waiting for the HLR5668W and it's 10,000:1 contrast ratio, $3,999 for the 50". (Spec sheet (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=38632)) Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: schild on June 20, 2005, 05:42:08 PM What's your sound system like? What's the dimensions of the room?
If you're gonna do it, do it right. Answer my questions, I shant steer you the wrong way, grasshopper. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Xilren's Twin on June 20, 2005, 08:17:26 PM What's your sound system like? What's the dimensions of the room? If you're gonna do it, do it right. Answer my questions, I shant steer you the wrong way, grasshopper. Room is approx 24'x18', prehaps a little larger. Surround sound is something i will be adding along with this. Xilren Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: schild on June 20, 2005, 08:29:16 PM For gaming or not for gaming?
Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on June 21, 2005, 02:16:30 AM For gaming or not for gaming? Why do you even ask that question? Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: schild on June 21, 2005, 02:19:39 AM For gaming or not for gaming? Why do you even ask that question? Because you don't game on a rear projection screen. Not only does it look bad, it's supposedly a factor in "burn-in" even though I'm quite sure they've managed to work out that kink. I'm just asking him all the questions I'd ask anyone when they're buying a new TV. I know when I bought my front projector back in my sophomore year of college, I didn't plan on gaming with it. In fact, I didn't start gaming on it until my senior year. Oh, and welcome back :). (Edit: As in, it's nice to see you taking time out from being HAMMERED in Germany to post :roll:) Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on June 21, 2005, 05:29:49 AM For gaming or not for gaming? Why do you even ask that question? Because you don't game on a rear projection screen. Not only does it look bad, it's supposedly a factor in "burn-in" even though I'm quite sure they've managed to work out that kink. I'm just asking him all the questions I'd ask anyone when they're buying a new TV. I know when I bought my front projector back in my sophomore year of college, I didn't plan on gaming with it. In fact, I didn't start gaming on it until my senior year. Oh, and welcome back :). (Edit: As in, it's nice to see you taking time out from being HAMMERED in Germany to post :roll:) Hehe, sorta, just have a few days vacation from my vacation at my fiancee's cousin's house in a little town in Germany. Will be back in July to move to Baltimore. Yeaaaaaa packed Summers of travel! Oh, and to bring it back, I was looking for a new tv for our move and we settled on the newer generation of the Samsung Sky keeps raving about. They had new technology in the color wheel or something. Price was right ~3k for 56" Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Xilren's Twin on June 21, 2005, 06:58:36 AM For gaming or not for gaming? Oddly enough... yes :-) Xilren Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Sky on June 21, 2005, 08:56:56 AM Quote Because you don't game on a rear projection screen. Not only does it look bad, it's supposedly a factor in "burn-in" even though I'm quite sure they've managed to work out that kink There is no burn-in with DLP, and it's marginal with other display techs (LCD, Plasma), the worst is CRT, which has the highest overall image quality, but with so many downsides it's not worth it (convergence, weight, smaller size).I, of course, recommend the Samsung DLPs. For that room, you definitely want the big kahuna like mine, and it won't break the bank (well, compared to plasma, anyway). The 61" model. At CC it's listing at $3200 (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Samsung-61-DLP-HDTV-HL-R6167W-/sem/rpsm/oid/123501/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do), which is about $150 less than I paid total for mine (it was listed for $4999 when I bought it in Nov03). I still feel it was worth every penny, and I'm Mr. Buyer's Remorse. In fact, I bought the 61" because I knew I'd have remorse on a smaller set, that I didn't save for the kahuna. As mentioned, the new guts "fix" a lot of the "problems" with DLP tech (rainbows and black levels). I can make myself see the rainbows if I try, but only on certain high contrast images (actually, the only time I've seen them was using the THX utility, there's a white ring on black bgrnd that I was told to use to see rainbows), but never in normal usage, which is kinda the only time I'm watching it :) Black levels haven't been an issue, I've played through Thief 2 and Thief DS on the set and it was fine. For pc gaming, you'll need a monitor driver, I'll post the one I made if you need it. Because it's a tv, not a pc monitor (labels, labels, bah), it doesn't ship with drivers. I use a shareware util to make one lickety-split. Here's the quick & dirty (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=352932) if you're interested in doing it yourself. And avsforum is your friend for researching stuff. Lots of doom & gloom, but if you can look past the biases, it's a great resource (sound familiar? :)) Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: OcellotJenkins on June 22, 2005, 05:11:22 AM Excellent information, thanks. Now can anyone recommend a nice surround sound system that doesn't break the bank?
Also, I've been out of the loop for about 10 years so I'm wondering what the best way is to handle multiple video sources today. Let's say I have 3 consoles, a PC, and a DVD player (at a minimum). Is a separate video switcher box needed or do most of the big screen tv's support this many video inputs? Same for audio. How many inputs do the surround sound systems typically support? Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Sky on June 22, 2005, 07:28:19 AM I've got a fairly low end receiver, a Panny HE100 or something like that. But it's got 3 component inputs, so if I needed to, I could use it for component switching. My Sammy tv has 3 component ins (1@480i/480p, 2@480p/720p/1080i), 1 VGA in and 1 DVI in. Right now I'm only using the DVI from my pc, I wish it had two DVI ins or that DVI switchers weren't so expensive so I could run my cable box via DVI as well, but cable looks great on component anyway, whereas the pc really improves with the digital signal for pixel perfection. Anyway, that's my setup, I don't know much about switching because I don't need it, the tv alone is robust enough for my needs. Always check the specs to see what ins a tv has.
I almost don't want to know more about good receivers, I don't need to drop more money into the home theater at this point. As always, avsforum.com is a great resource for audio as well as video. One guy I talked a lot of gaming with, MaxC, has some sick front speakers, Rockets or something. Nice stuff, but as I said, I'm trying to ignore it ;) My surround is passing, great sub and center/backs, but the front l/r are just satellites, I haven't upgraded them to 'real' speakers yet (part of my piecemeal way of affording it, heh). Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: schild on June 22, 2005, 03:22:09 PM What does break the bank mean? I've got a $2800 surround system that rocks ass. I think I have to replace my towers and I personally want a new sub, but you could always just buy the high-end Klipsch PC system. It's decent. A little subwoofery though.
Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Morfiend on June 22, 2005, 03:34:41 PM As to sound. I have the Onkyo, that was $700. Comes with a decent receiver, and the little speakers kick ass. My friend bought a Bose for $1400 and IMO doesnt sound nearly as good as mine.
I think Im still in debt to a few people here for helping me get it installed with every piece of tech running through the receiver, and being one button press away from viewing on the TV. As to TVs, I am still planning on getting the Sony WEGA 70 inch one. Man does it look good, the only problem is the price. Its like 6k. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: schild on June 22, 2005, 03:37:16 PM Yea, the Onkyo stuff is nice. I run their higher end receiver - the Integra 7.1 one. Speakers are JBL Studios. I don't have the money to get what I really want as that would cost in excess of $15,000. :roll:
Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: OcellotJenkins on June 23, 2005, 05:52:39 AM What does break the bank mean? I've got a $2800 surround system that rocks ass. I think I have to replace my towers and I personally want a new sub, but you could always just buy the high-end Klipsch PC system. It's decent. A little subwoofery though. Yea, the Onkyo stuff is nice. I run their higher end receiver - the Integra 7.1 one. Speakers are JBL Studios. I don't have the money to get what I really want as that would cost in excess of $15,000. :roll: Well, $2800 for a sound system alone would be breaking the bank for me, especially after dropping around 3k for the tv. I believe the WAF (Wife Approval Factor) would be higher with something in the $400-$700 range. I did notice yesterday at Best Buy that most of the surround sound recievers had video switching so that is nice. Anyone have any experience with the LCD Projection TVs? From what I can tell, they are very similar to the DLPs in terms of quality and price but have a significantly better viewing angle. It was very noticable when comparing a Panny 61" LCD Projection with the Samsung 61" DLP side by side. Edit: Here is the Panasonic (http://www.plasmaconcepts.com/plasma-tv-store/Panasonic-PT-61LCX65/PD371.html) Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Morfiend on June 23, 2005, 02:16:53 PM Thats what I was talking about with the Sony, I ment the XBR series. They are Rear Projection LCD. They have the best quality/viewing angle/every thing I have seen to date.
Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on June 24, 2005, 03:26:39 AM Thats what I was talking about with the Sony, I ment the XBR series. They are Rear Projection LCD. They have the best quality/viewing angle/every thing I have seen to date. Don't they cost like 6k or something? You could buy an aluminum powder screen and a decent home theater projector and speakers and a lazy boy for that. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: OcellotJenkins on June 24, 2005, 05:17:57 AM Thats what I was talking about with the Sony, I ment the XBR series. They are Rear Projection LCD. They have the best quality/viewing angle/every thing I have seen to date. Don't they cost like 6k or something? You could buy an aluminum powder screen and a decent home theater projector and speakers and a lazy boy for that. The Panasonic in my link above is listed at $2,595.00. Not too bad for a 61 incher and from what I can tell in the store, it's definitely equal too if not better looking than the Sony WEGA. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Sky on June 24, 2005, 09:01:54 AM Just read up on LCD in general and the sets you're interested in in particular, over at avsforum. Can't repeat that enough, it's an essential resource, given the money involved.
Quote You could buy an aluminum powder screen and a decent home theater projector and speakers and a lazy boy for that. I was extremely torn between my set and a projector, just never found a projector I was happy with, and I was happy with the Sammy DLP from the minute I set eyes on it. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on July 06, 2005, 02:17:20 PM Just read up on LCD in general and the sets you're interested in in particular, over at avsforum. Can't repeat that enough, it's an essential resource, given the money involved. Quote You could buy an aluminum powder screen and a decent home theater projector and speakers and a lazy boy for that. I was extremely torn between my set and a projector, just never found a projector I was happy with, and I was happy with the Sammy DLP from the minute I set eyes on it. Just want to rack your brain on this a bit more. See, when we go to the store and look at the 61", it just doesn't look as good as the LCD's and even the 56" nearby. Why is this? (note: I'm pretty much sold on the unit from word of mouth alone, but I want to feel that I really want it). Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Trippy on July 06, 2005, 07:59:12 PM Just read up on LCD in general and the sets you're interested in in particular, over at avsforum. Can't repeat that enough, it's an essential resource, given the money involved. Just want to rack your brain on this a bit more.Quote You could buy an aluminum powder screen and a decent home theater projector and speakers and a lazy boy for that. I was extremely torn between my set and a projector, just never found a projector I was happy with, and I was happy with the Sammy DLP from the minute I set eyes on it. See, when we go to the store and look at the 61", it just doesn't look as good as the LCD's and even the 56" nearby. Why is this? (note: I'm pretty much sold on the unit from word of mouth alone, but I want to feel that I really want it). Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on July 06, 2005, 08:06:29 PM No, it just doesn't seem like a wide viewing angle and the contrasts were all out of wack (I blame the controller).
Dunno, it was very dark around the edges, like you use to get on the old old rear views. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Sky on July 07, 2005, 07:26:42 AM DLP is sensitive to vertical veiwing angle, in that if you're too far above the viewing plane, or below it, the picture darkens, similar to old rptvs on the horizontal. You have to view it at the angle you'll be viewing it at. Horizontally, I can watch my tv from any spot in the room. There is a bit of darkening when I stand up, but we view it from 10' away, unless you get right up next to it, it's marginal (not just my opinion, it's the local consensus). Remember you'll want to be 10' away or more, there's some formula for it.
Beyond that, electronics stores split out a questionable quality feed to all the sets in the store. Best thing is to plug a high-def source directly into the tv and check out a known good signal. And the set may have been poorly tweaked, I didn't have to tweak mine very much (via the service menu, look to avsforum for details). Certainly nothing like the convergence issues with CRT, imo. As for why the 56" looked better, that makes me suspect a bad tweaking on the 61", aside from the fact smaller displays tend to look sharper than larger displays as a matter of course. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Pococurante on July 07, 2005, 07:29:02 AM That's what has kept me away from the newer sets. We have a large sectional oriented around the fireplace/TV and we entertain large groups of people. It detracts from the brag factor when half can't see the shiny.
Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Sky on July 07, 2005, 08:30:47 AM That would be the detraction of the older rptv sets with limited horizontal viewing angle. Everyone seated around the room should be able to see a great pciture. Only people up on a balcony or something might have problems, or those standing directly in front of and above the set.
Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on July 07, 2005, 09:01:21 AM DLP is sensitive to vertical veiwing angle, in that if you're too far above the viewing plane, or below it, the picture darkens, similar to old rptvs on the horizontal. You have to view it at the angle you'll be viewing it at. Horizontally, I can watch my tv from any spot in the room. There is a bit of darkening when I stand up, but we view it from 10' away, unless you get right up next to it, it's marginal (not just my opinion, it's the local consensus). Remember you'll want to be 10' away or more, there's some formula for it. Beyond that, electronics stores split out a questionable quality feed to all the sets in the store. Best thing is to plug a high-def source directly into the tv and check out a known good signal. And the set may have been poorly tweaked, I didn't have to tweak mine very much (via the service menu, look to avsforum for details). Certainly nothing like the convergence issues with CRT, imo. As for why the 56" looked better, that makes me suspect a bad tweaking on the 61", aside from the fact smaller displays tend to look sharper than larger displays as a matter of course. Turns out the 56" and the 61" use the same lamp, so one is 600 (61) and one is 700 (56) which is why the 56" looks brighter -- it is! Thanks for the info about the vertical viewing angle, I'll have to check that out. As it's looking, the brand new 1080p (XX68) might be the way to go in terms of spending lots of money for a fantastic tv. But it's about 1000 dollars more than the 1080i model (XX67). Turns out that samsung has been working backwards with all the options (menu options) on the tv's each consecutive generation for some odd reason. It's hard to read the avsforum and remember that 80% of people will only post when they have a problem. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Sky on July 07, 2005, 10:01:30 AM No shit! I have to start looking around. I love my 720p set to death....but man, a 1080p set would kick mucho buttock....but then I'd be bitching about my video card not running BF2! :cry: Hell of a lot more pixels to push on one of those...but totally worth it for the next few years of gaming.
Quote It's hard to read the avsforum and remember that 80% of people will only post when they have a problem. Words of wisdom, Lloyd. Words of wisdom.Also - I thought all the sammy's used a 100W bulb, excepting the 61", which had a 125W. If they dropped a 125W in the smaller set or whatever, then yeah, there you go. That must be insanely bright, my set can get bright at times (I use an ambient light to downplay the brightness in a full dark setting...I'm talking when I open a new blank browser window with a white background in the middle of the night). Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on July 07, 2005, 11:49:28 AM After reading quite a bit on the Samsung tv's on avsforums, I think you got the right deal with your generation TV, and they've been kinda going downhill since then, except for the PQ (picture quality).
# Brightness (cd/m-sq): 61"=600, 56"=700, 50"=900, 46", 42" = 1000. # Lamp (Standard/Dynamic Display Setting): 42", 46", 50", 56", 61"=(100W/120W) From the XX67 series that I was looking at. See this link to AVS to sample the 1080p (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4954868#post4954868) 1080p: # Inputs: 2 HDMI , 2 Component Video, 1 S-Video, 2 Composite # Inputs: VGA/PC (1920x1080@60Hz) Win! Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Shockeye on July 07, 2005, 01:06:31 PM Quote HDMI Supported Inputs: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i (1080p will NOT be offered) Why no 1080p via HDMI? Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: schild on July 07, 2005, 01:17:02 PM 720p already renders most people terribly ugly. Near disfigured.
1080p may be what turns me off of TV forever. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Sky on July 07, 2005, 02:05:21 PM Conan O'Brien is a disturbing looking guy. Good thing he has a pretty funny show imo. Schild is definitely right, though, hd is bringing out the details you miss in standard def programming, like Cammy Diaz' pockmarked face.
But Conan's pillars (the sidebars when they put out a 4:3 image) are HANDS-DOWN the best I've ever seen: Abe Vigota playing ping pong against another Abe on the opposite side. I wish that was the standard NBC pillarboxing! Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on July 07, 2005, 06:51:21 PM Quote HDMI Supported Inputs: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i (1080p will NOT be offered) Why no 1080p via HDMI? Shit, must've missed that. HDMI sucks anyways. Damn you MPAA. Edit: To add more to the 'you got the right tv Sky', alot of people are complaining of video lag for xbox/ps2 and audio lag for everything else because of the extra functions the tv goes through to get the PQ higher (~100ms either way). Since this generation has absolutely no way to shut off certain functions that some people find extraneous, the problem is common place. Although, again, most people that post on AVSforum are the same type of people that try to squeeze 3 more FPS out of a vid card. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: schild on July 08, 2005, 12:38:19 AM Most modern receivers and preamps can delay sound or video to resync this sort of issue. As such it's a total non-issue. If you're getting a good TV, do it all right. Don't go half ass on the audio and video processing.
Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on July 08, 2005, 06:28:19 AM Most modern receivers and preamps can delay sound or video to resync this sort of issue. As such it's a total non-issue. If you're getting a good TV, do it all right. Don't go half ass on the audio and video processing. XBox and PS2 Delay from input to output. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: OcellotJenkins on July 11, 2005, 12:36:05 PM Well, I took the plunge this weekend and bought my home theater system. After spending quite a bit of time on avsforum.com (thanks for letting us know about that site) and making several visits to Best Buy, Circuit City, and Tweeter, I ended up getting the following if anyone cares:
Sony Grand Wega 55" LCD Projection TV (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony-55-HDTV-KDF-55WF655-/sem/rpsm/oid/108784/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do) Onkyo TX-SR602 AV Reciever (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Onkyo-Surround-Sound-Receiver-TX-SR602-/sem/rpsm/oid/97895/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do) Polk RM6800 5.1 Surround Speakers (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Polk-Home-Theater-Speaker-System-RM6800-/sem/rpsm/oid/108690/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do) TV Console/Stand (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Bush-Plasma-DLP-TV-Console-VS1358801-/sem/rpsm/oid/93511/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do) My local Circuit City had the best deal I could find. It took some negotiating but I got them to take 10% off everything and throw in an Inkjet printer for free...oh yeah and free delivery. It really came down to either the Samsung DLP or the Sony Wega and although both TVs look beautiful side by side, My wife and I felt the Sony had a much better viewing angle. Also, multiple people told me the Sony had a better upconversion algorithym than the Sammy and that it was notiable when hooking things like a PS2 up to it. CC also claimed that the Sammys had a 4 to 1 return rate over the Sonys for what it's worth. I must say, that my 55" looks MUCH bigger in my den than it did in the store. I have a 25'x15' room and I think a 60"+ TV would be overkill for that space. Hell, a 50" would probably have worked very nicely. As far as the Onkyo reciever goes, it is very similar to the Pioneer 1015x that is a favorite mid range AV reciever on avsforum.com. Both have 3 component video inputs and 5 composite inputs (perfect for what I need). The Onkyo puts out some very clean power and has an auto setup microphone that let's you easily calibrate the system for your specific room. The Polk speakers, while not having the brute force asskickery of large floor standing speakers, sound clean and forceful enough for my size room. I'm actually surprised that much sound can come out of satellite sized speakers. I'm hooking a Dish Network DVR, Progressive Scan DVD player, PS2, and Gamecube to it, all switched by the AV reciever's remote (increased WAF). Eventually I plan to build a sleek little media PC and slide it into the console. I'm jonesing to grind foozles in WoW from the comfort of my recliner. Bottom line: I'm grinning like a jackass with a mouthful of bumble bees. :-D :-D :-D Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Sky on July 11, 2005, 01:01:57 PM Right on!
Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on July 11, 2005, 07:01:07 PM Fucking Fantastic man, congrats!!!!
I bet one big reason that the 4-1 return rate is that it weighs less. After reading tons of avsforums, I've managed to talk myself out of a samsung and into one of the new sony's coming out this year. 1k more :( Gotta get me a jobs at bestbuy. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: stray on July 17, 2005, 07:10:01 PM I'd figured I'd glance at this thread because my TV just farted out....
*Nevermind* Holy hell. You guys are absolutely insane. Either that, or I'm a biggest miser you'll probably ever know. Anyways, maybe you can still answer my question. Does anyone here have Dish Network or DirectTV? I'll probably be moving up to HD (probably nothing too fancy :oops:), but I'm a little confused on getting a new reciever. I already have a non HD reciever with PVR, and I can get another to view HD programming for $100 (but without recording features). I can still use both, but if I ever want to record, it won't be HD. It's $500 bucks for an HD+PVR reciever. I don't know about you guys, but that's sounds pretty crazy to me. Should I just wait and deal with the two reciever setup for awhile? Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on July 17, 2005, 07:15:23 PM Crazy, maybe.
But there's almost nothing else entertainment wise that I spend more time with. It's worth the expense imo. Especially when I get my DVI-HDMI cable going. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: OcellotJenkins on July 18, 2005, 06:10:27 AM Anyways, maybe you can still answer my question. Does anyone here have Dish Network or DirectTV? I'll probably be moving up to HD (probably nothing too fancy :oops:), but I'm a little confused on getting a new reciever. I already have a non HD reciever with PVR, and I can get another to view HD programming for $100 (but without recording features). I can still use both, but if I ever want to record, it won't be HD. It's $500 bucks for an HD+PVR reciever. I don't know about you guys, but that's sounds pretty crazy to me. Should I just wait and deal with the two reciever setup for awhile? I went to a local satellite retailer with the intention of getting Dish Network. After talking with them for about an hour I decided against it and went Digital Cable. Here's why: - Dish Network will lease you an HD box OR a PVR box but not an HD PVR combo box. - To get the combo box, you have to shell out $600 (might be cheaper elsewhere but that's what they quoted me). - They also do not offer HD versions of my local network channels. - To get the local HD networks, I would have to buy an Antenna from them for $100 and tune those stations with my TV tuner instead of the satellite reciever. - They were going to charge me for 3 boxes (one for each tv in my house). - My cable company (Knology) offers Digital Cable with an HD PVR combo box. - All local HD channels are included (CBS, NBC, FOX, etc) as well as Discovery HD, ESPN HD, and HBO HD. - Analog cable, of course, doesn't require a box which is perfect for my other 2 TVs and is free. - The package was significantly cheaper than the Dish Network package and provided more content. It's possible that your satellite retailer has a better deal than mine so check it out. I personally would rather lease the reciever from them than pay for my own. The benefit of owning one would be that you could hack into it and upgrade the PVR hard drive if you wanted to but still, I'd rather lease and always have the latest box they offer. Heh, I wound up exchanging that 55" Wega for a 42" EDTV Plasma (http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=118479&key=56081&carriage=4020&com.broadvision.session.new=Yes&BV_UseBVCookie=No). The freaking thing was just too big. I'm enjoying the better picture quality of plasma and the size fits the room much better. I came to the realization that 480 crispy clean lines were all I really need on a 42" tv and even thought it's technically not "HD", High Definition content looks amazing on the set. There isn't $1000 difference in the ED and HD on a set that size in my opinion. At least my eyes can't see the difference from 10 feet away. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: stray on July 18, 2005, 07:09:43 AM I'm not going to get much of a better deal with Dish here either. I haven't checked out the particulars with my cable company (Time Warner), but I'm sure it'll be a hell of a lot better than that. I'm already paying them for broadband anyways...Might as well do the whole thing. I just don't watch enough TV to justify $500 for a reciever. I'm a movie buff for sure, but not much else (Well....I can't resist the urge of watching retards play basketball either :D). If anything, I could use that cash to buy a better sound system.
[EDIT] One good thing is that I can get some nice deals at the BX through my old man. There's 32" JVC HD (AV-32S575) that I can get for $557, but what you said about plasma has me curious now. I forgot the exact model, but there was a 42" that was priced under $1500. I'm going back there later, so I'll write down what it is. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: OcellotJenkins on July 18, 2005, 07:47:32 AM [EDIT] One good thing is that I can get some nice deals at the BX through my old man. There's 32" JVC HD (AV-32S575) that I can get for $557, but what you said about plasma has me curious now. I forgot the exact model, but there was a 42" that was priced under $1500. I'm going back there later, so I'll write down what it is. That Plasma I linked above goes for about $2500 most places but my dad, who is now interested in one as well, said he found the same set at Walfart for $2100. I'm not sure what kind of service plan they offer but I paid $499 for a 4 year plan at Circuit City. Good luck with your search. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Strazos on July 18, 2005, 08:48:55 AM Yeah, I'm still running a 32" RCA from the late 80's, and it looks fine to me.
My parents run a high 30's or mid 40's projection screen TV downstairs, with no Digital Cable or HD. Fuck that noise. :wink: Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: AcidCat on July 18, 2005, 09:49:52 AM Heh, I wound up exchanging that 55" Wega for a 42" EDTV Plasma (http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=118479&key=56081&carriage=4020&com.broadvision.session.new=Yes&BV_UseBVCookie=No). I was with you until this happened. What a disappointing ending to a great story. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: OcellotJenkins on July 18, 2005, 10:14:15 AM Heh, I wound up exchanging that 55" Wega for a 42" EDTV Plasma (http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=118479&key=56081&carriage=4020&com.broadvision.session.new=Yes&BV_UseBVCookie=No). I was with you until this happened. What a disappointing ending to a great story. 95% of all the TV I watch is Standard Definition broadcast. SD looks like utter shit on a 55" screen when you are less than 20 feet away from it. DVD's were nice on the big one for sure, as well as the few HD channels. My wife usually doesn't notice compression artifacts and such but even she was disgusted with the quality of SD on that Wega. For example, the H logo on the history channel has artifacting all around it. On my plasma i can notice it if I look for it. On the Wega it was under a magnifying glass and you couldn't miss it regardless of where you were in the room. Maybe 5 to 10 years down the line when every cable channel is broadcasting in HD I'll regret my purchase. For now though, I'm loving it. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Sky on July 18, 2005, 11:07:47 AM Quote from: Stray Holy hell. You guys are absolutely insane. Maybe. But maybe spending twice what I paid for my tv for a boat I can use 3 months a year vs a tv I watch every day in one capacity or another (hd, dvd, pc) makes crazy sense. Most of my friends think I'm nuts, but have seasonal toys like a boat or snowmobiles. Not to knock those hobbies, but if you break it down by hours/yr it's actually pretty damned cheap. Not to mention the intangibles like not crouching over a computer desk and having a home theater (saving me lots of theater expenses), having my entire cd collection accessible around the house via my home theater system, etc. But yeah, there's an upfront sticker shock, no doubt.Quote It's $500 bucks for an HD+PVR reciever. I don't know about you guys, but that's sounds pretty crazy to me. Should I just wait and deal with the two reciever setup for awhile? I don't know much about it, best to ask at the avsforum. Even though it's currently f&*(ing broken, the nice thing about the TW box is that it's only $7/mo, though of course there is a crossover point....but I also get free hardware upgrades and the HD receiver is 'free', same cost as a digital receiver. In fact the guy who I installed a wireless network for last week got an HD receiver even though he doesn't intend on getting an HD set for a year or so.To add to OCJ's excellent dish vs cable post, my local TW offers the following in HD: HBOHD (Deadwood!!), SHOHD, YesHD (yankee home games), ESPNHD (football!), InHD1 & 2 (great music and educational stuff), HDNet (yay Mark Cuban, more great music, sports and educational), HDNet Movies (lots of classics converted to HD....soylent green is PEOPLE!), DiscoveryHD (my favorite), PBSHD (frontline in hd!), CBS/ABC/NBC in HD (Conan went HD a couple weeks ago, and football is AMAZING). I'd say 95% of my tv viewing is in HD, it's just so much nicer, I only watch the Daily Show and SciFi Friday in SD, and the odd bit of MTV1/2 (when they are playing music, so never really) and Fuse or VH1 classic. Quote Heh, I wound up exchanging that 55" Wega for a 42" EDTV Plasma. Meh. You lost me there, too. If I do something, I like to do it right.Quote That Plasma I linked above goes for about $2500 most places but my dad, who is now interested in one as well, said he found the same set at Walfart for $2100. My 720p native 61" set goes for about $2500 these days. And you really want to play BF2 on it ;)Quote SD looks like utter shit on a 55" screen when you are less than 20 feet away from it. Took me about two or three months to adjust. Most of my friends got tired of me bitching about the mediocre (not utter shit imo) quality of SD on the set. Now I can watch the daily show without noticing. I sit about 10' away, the bare minimum I'd recommend for a 61" set. Actually, just about perfect imo. Great distance for gaming.Quote On the Wega it was under a magnifying glass and you couldn't miss it regardless of where you were in the room. That's odd. My set is nowhere near that level of artifacting. I don't really even notice it unless I directly compare a HD vs SD signal, and even then, it's not artifacted to the level you mention. Maybe it's due to the LCD tech? I dunno, just find it odd.Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: stray on July 18, 2005, 11:40:15 AM Quote from: Stray Holy hell. You guys are absolutely insane. Maybe. But maybe spending twice what I paid for my tv for a boat I can use 3 months a year vs a tv I watch every day in one capacity or another (hd, dvd, pc) makes crazy sense. Most of my friends think I'm nuts, but have seasonal toys like a boat or snowmobiles. Not to knock those hobbies, but if you break it down by hours/yr it's actually pretty damned cheap.By that reasoning, you'd have a Gretsch by now too :-P What are you waiting for? Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Sky on July 18, 2005, 12:02:08 PM I'm not sure if I had it to do over again that I'd get a guitar instead of the tv. I really love my tv (if you couldn't tell). It's just that I'm not really doing anything with music buy woodshedding right now, trying to build my knowledge and skills up. If I were gigging or even recording, I'd get a nicer guitar. As it is, every spare cent is going to my house fund. I took a short-term loan for the tv (a year) to build up my credit with the bank, now they'll give me a mortgage without a cosign.
I think I'll be getting a black Strat with maple neck, though. :) Watched the Holmes Brothers (GREAT band) last night opening for the less-than-stellar Bo Diddley, and the guitarist was playing my baby. I can get one cheaper than that nice Gretsch or a Les Paul, anyway. Wait....what thread is this again? ;) Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Yegolev on July 18, 2005, 12:06:26 PM It's $500 bucks for an HD+PVR reciever. I don't know about you guys, but that's sounds pretty crazy to me. Should I just wait and deal with the two reciever setup for awhile? I don't know that I have any solutions for you, but I have an alternate anecdote from Ocellot's. I already had DirecTV and I got my HD DVR from them. It was ~$680. Works OK but doesn't have all the b+w that other TiVo boxes have, I think, particularly a network connection. Not that I have looked back there to see if it had a ethernet port. Does what I want it to. It has a built-in "off-air" antenna hole so if I were so inclined I could get a HD antenna/box and plug it into the DirecTV box. I am not inclined, since DirecTV gives me local channels in HD. I also get NYC and LA versions, just in case I can't get enough local news from Fox 5. The receiver also has two satellite inputs so I could watch one channel while recording another, except I'm not wired up for that. I have not done a lot of research but seems like if you want to get a HD DVR you are going to have to drop your pants. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: OcellotJenkins on July 18, 2005, 12:48:48 PM Concerning SD picture quality, I highly recommend asking the people at the store to let you see what a regular analog channel looks like on the various sets. Most of the time they are running a high definition promo channel to those TVs so they all look pretty good. My bad experience with SD could have been because the TV was LCD...perhaps DLP doesn't have the problem, but mine was terrible.
As far as ED goes, it's all about the size of the set. The general consensus at avsforum was that for a 42" plasma, the difference is hardly noticable between the ED and HD versions (in the Panasonic particularly). You'd be a fool to get a large screen (50"+) ED though. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Sky on July 18, 2005, 03:00:49 PM When viewing content in the store, you also have to sit the proper distance from the set to replicate normal viewing. If you get too close to a lot of sets, it looks bad because they aren't designed to be viewed up close. My set has a slight 'screen door', the barely visible demarcation between pixels. But step a few feet back (even closer then comfortable veiwing distance) and it's gone. So many subjective things involved, and a lot of imperfections, as well (I have the older color wheel, frinstance). But I still love the damn thing and wouldn't change my mind about buying it, even armed with my year and a half experience as an owner. Really, the worst part of the whole experience has been time fucking warner.
But hey, decent programming and an initially cheap DVR. It's all about the tradeoffs, I guess. I think for my next theater piece, I'll be going projector. I won't bite until they have an affordable 1080p widescreen projector, though. This XGA crap is nonsense ;) Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on July 18, 2005, 03:23:52 PM Doesn't Comcast give you an HD-DVR box for like $10/month? Isn't that cheaper than tivo?
Oh, and Sky, IGNORANCE IS BLISS. Don't read avsforums, you'll end up upselling yourself. Goodbye 2500, hello 4500. Now, to find some cash so I can buy that fucker. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Sky on July 18, 2005, 04:43:36 PM Nah, I upsell myself. I could have afforded the 56" set several months earlier, but I knew if I didn't get the big kahuna, I'd be thinking "my set is sooo nice...but if only I'd gotten the 61"....". I was a bit worried because of the amount of negative posts about my set, but as has been mentioned, those tend to crop up the most, same as bitching about mmogs dominates boards over positive posts. The real sell was the simple pc connectivity via DVI, it's a great pc monitor. I don't think I could game on a traditional rig any more :) Feet on the coffee table > hunched over desk!
Quote Doesn't Comcast give you an HD-DVR box for like $10/month? Isn't that cheaper than tivo? As I mentioned, my Time-Warner box, which was nice when IT FUCKING WORKED (Raph tried to warn me, heh, he went through something like 4 boxes due to the same problem), runs me $7/mo.Just don't let it fill up. I had the entire last season of Deadwood in HD, which ate up about 60% of the disk, plus the entire last seasons of SG-1, Atlantis, and BSG (maybe 20% for all three, due to being SD), plus a bunch of shows to watch with my girl: frontline, bullshit!, independent lens, etc. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on July 18, 2005, 06:41:04 PM Well, the computer is the problem.
1080p DLP Samsung set runs 1k more than the 720p. The HDMI input (DVI) won't accept 1080p, but the analog VGA plug will. The problem is, that I've been reading about this new TV Sony is putting out, and it has like 90% fill on it's LCD pixels, which is incredible and takes away about the only thing I don't like about LCD TV's. Plus, it's HDMI takes 1080p which might come in handy someday. Oh, and I think I might be getting my HD-DVR set asap. Anyone know if Comcast will charge me for HD channels as well as the box rental? Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Yegolev on July 19, 2005, 08:42:55 AM Doesn't Comcast give you an HD-DVR box for like $10/month? Isn't that cheaper than tivo? You have to account for the intangible cost of dealing with Comcast. I will never, ever go back to cable. Those fuckers burned their bridges really well. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: stray on July 21, 2005, 01:24:16 PM How does upconversion work on HDTV's? What does a normal (NTSC?) signal look like?
[EDIT] I'm so confused. [EDIT] Here's Toshiba's CrystalScan, for instance: Quote CrystalScan HDSC upconverts all video signals (including 480i/p) to either 1080i HD on CRT based models or 720p on fixed pixel sets, resulting in a significant reduction in jagged line artifacts. Selectable 540p, for users who want to display a progressive scan image from a progressive scan source, is vailable via the on-screen menu. Benefit: CrystalScan HDSC uses the full high definition display capability of the television to create the sharpest, most realistic picture possible from every source. Do all brands have something similar to this? Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on July 21, 2005, 02:02:32 PM I think the TV tries to recreate the input into it's native resolution.
Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Viin on July 21, 2005, 02:11:48 PM Yah all TVs will take whatever signal you send them and put it in their native resolution. So if you have a 720p TV and send it a 1080i signal it downgrades it to 720p. If you send it a 720i signal it'll upscale it to 720p.
Note on the 1080p thing - as far as I know there isn't anything right now that can send a picture in 1080p, so even if the TV supports it it will only accept 1080i and upscale it to 1080p. Hopefully this will change soon, but I donno when that'll happen. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on July 21, 2005, 02:28:51 PM Correct, I believe the first device short of a computer signal to output 1080p will be the PS3. Most 1080p tv's that are coming out actually do not and will not accept a true 1080p signal. They will take it, downscale it to 1080i, then flip it back to 1080p.
Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: stray on July 21, 2005, 02:31:19 PM OK, here's another question: What does regular Dish or Digital Cable broadcast in? 480p? Or plain old 525i?
I'm just wondering how well "non-HDTV" broadcasts look on your TV's. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on July 21, 2005, 02:58:54 PM OK, here's another question: What does regular Dish or Digital Cable broadcast in? 480p? Or plain old 525i? I'm just wondering how well "non-HDTV" broadcasts look on your TV's. 480p over Dish network I think. Digital cable is shit. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: OcellotJenkins on July 21, 2005, 08:51:34 PM OK, here's another question: What does regular Dish or Digital Cable broadcast in? 480p? Or plain old 525i? I'm just wondering how well "non-HDTV" broadcasts look on your TV's. 480p over Dish network I think. Digital cable is shit. From what I can tell, the difference in picture quality between satellite and digital cable is negligible. The limiting factor here is the quality of the network programming. For example, History Channel and TBS both look crappier (and sound crappier for that matter) than say ESPN or HGTV. This is noticable on Comcast and Knology digital cable as well as dish network (in TN at least). Regardless of how clean the signal is that the provider pipes into your home, if the network programmer provides a lower quality feed, that is what you are going to see. As I mentioned earlier, this is magnified on a larger, higher quality screen (to varying degrees depending on your eyesight and the tv). One important issue to consider if you've never owned a wide screen tv before is the 4:3 picture shape that regular non-HD channels have. You'll be seeing black bars on the sides of the screen unless you distort the picture by stretching it. There are several ways to deal with this depending on your reciever and tv. Since I have a plasma, I'm a bit more concerned about screen burn in than if I owned a rear projection tv so I usually try to fill the whole screen when possible. My digital cable box has three picture size settings; stretch, zoom, and normal. Stretch simply elongates the picture which results in fat heads...not ideal really but your eyes get used to it eventually. Zoom looks better but chops off some of the top and bottom, again not ideal. In addition to my digital cable box having aspect adjustment, my tv also does. The tv has the two mentioned above along with Justify. This mode is better because it uses an algorithm to stretch more on the sides of the picture and less in the middle which reduces the fat head problem. The problem is, most tv's with aspect adjustment can only do it on non-HD signals. This means it works on s-video and composite inputs but not component (HD) inputs. I'm considering running both an S-Video and a component cable out of my cable box into my tv so I can have the best of both worlds. I then could watch SD content using the Justify aspect and HD content in it's native wide screen format. I've heard that regular SD signals can sometimes look better via s-video than component because that type of signal was not meant to be split that way (see link below for better explaination). Another annoying issue is the fact that even on High Definition channels, much of the content is not actually in wide screen format. Most of the network HD channels are this way. Most of the time I just stretch em and live with the distortion. Kinda sucks but thats the trade off for being a semi early adopter. Here is a link that explains this stuff better than I can (it's written with plasma in mind but it applies to any widescreen pretty much): Polishing Turd (http://www.glaucobruzzi.com/plasma-faq/showthread.php?t=8) I'll say one more thing about upconversion. My PS2 looks absolutely stunning when connected with regular composite video cables to my tv. I use Justify mode to fill the screen and I'm very pleasantly surprised at how well it looks. I heard somewhere that you can get a component video kit for the PS2 that apparently allows you to get an even better signal out of the thing but I don't think it's worth it in my case. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on July 21, 2005, 09:13:02 PM It's worth it. 10 bucks and looks gorgeous.
I'm not going to worry about burn in (going for a DLP). Thanks for the clarification though. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: stray on July 23, 2005, 10:56:33 AM Is this a good deal?
Samsung SP-P4231 (http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?prod_id=SPP4231KX%2fXAA) 42" Plasma EDTV The regular price I can get it for is $1757, but there's a returned model available that was only used for 6 hours (regular non-BX price tags range from $1900 to $2400). The price on that is about $1300 (25 % off, and I still get the same warranty etc.). Remember now, I could care less for HDTV at this point. There isn't jack shit for channels (at least not worth a $500 box), and I watch mainly DVD's anyways. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Viin on July 28, 2005, 08:40:20 AM Plasma sucks. That said, if you have the money you might as well at least try it. The worst that could happen is that you take it back and get something else, right?
Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: OcellotJenkins on July 28, 2005, 09:16:04 AM Plasma sucks. That said, if you have the money you might as well at least try it. The worst that could happen is that you take it back and get something else, right? Humor me. Why does plasma suck? Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: CmdrSlack on July 28, 2005, 09:24:26 AM Plasma sucks. That said, if you have the money you might as well at least try it. The worst that could happen is that you take it back and get something else, right? Humor me. Why does plasma suck? Seconded. I know people say that the non-plasma flat screens are better, and I'm in the market for a flat-panel monitor...so why is plasma so bad? Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Furiously on July 28, 2005, 09:35:27 AM Go to your local airport that has a plasma screen that has been running for more then 6 months.
Plasma is great when it is new - it just suffers from burn-in. Look into life expectancy. And make sure your warranty covers burn-in. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Viin on July 28, 2005, 09:48:35 AM Yah, I've just not been real impressed by plasma. For the price, I can certainly find a better TV that's a projection model.
Furiously also has a very good point, the plasma TV's I've seen hanging around in public places certainly look worse for wear. (But then, I don't know how many LCD/DLP projection TV's are out in the public like that - so might not be a good comparison). Still, for the money, I think you get more bang for your buck with a non-plasma TV. Plasma is still newish and is expensive technology, you can get s good picture with a quality LCD TV for less money. I can get a huge DLP TV for the price of a small to medium sized plasma. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: OcellotJenkins on July 28, 2005, 09:49:30 AM Go to your local airport that has a plasma screen that has been running for more then 6 months. Plasma is great when it is new - it just suffers from burn-in. Look into life expectancy. And make sure your warranty covers burn-in. Unless you watch news channels 24 hours a day, seven days a week (airport TVs) or use the plasma as a computer monitor with no screen saver, burn-in is rarely ever an issue. Do a search on avsforum.com if you are concerned about it. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Trippy on August 17, 2005, 08:58:43 PM The ultimate (for now) HDTV?: Sony 60" Grand WEGA™ SXRD™ Rear Projection HDTV KDS-R60XBR1 (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;?ProductSKU=KDSR60XBR1&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=tv_SXRD)
Press release here (http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/3947). Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on August 17, 2005, 08:59:45 PM The ultimate (for now) HDTV?: Sony 60" Grand WEGA™ SXRD™ Rear Projection HDTV KDS-R60XBR1 (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;?ProductSKU=KDSR60XBR1&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=tv_SXRD) Press release here (http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/3947). Those fuckers finally came out? Damn, I'm so excited about those, but I can't warrant spending 30% more than my budget (10-15% yes, but 30%!) Edit: Looks like it doesn't accept 1080p after all. Shame. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Sky on August 18, 2005, 06:46:00 AM Ultimate isn't the word I'd use. It's nice (where are you seeing it not accept 1080p, that's the native res), but I'd be holding off because it's not in a good form, assuming you want a Wega, natch. 3 S-video ins, 3 Composite ins...you shouldn't be needing either, really, both look like total garbage on an hdtv. Only one HDMI, should be at least two (for pc and cable box, the VGA port sucks, too, imo digital tv = digital source, dammit). No need for that internal tuner, comes with the cable box. What's with 3 firewire ports? I'd bet a lot of this extra crap adds to the price, too.
Anyway, like I said. It's nice, no doubt. But not ultimate. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on August 18, 2005, 07:49:13 AM Ultimate isn't the word I'd use. It's nice (where are you seeing it not accept 1080p, that's the native res), but I'd be holding off because it's not in a good form, assuming you want a Wega, natch. 3 S-video ins, 3 Composite ins...you shouldn't be needing either, really, both look like total garbage on an hdtv. Only one HDMI, should be at least two (for pc and cable box, the VGA port sucks, too, imo digital tv = digital source, dammit). No need for that internal tuner, comes with the cable box. What's with 3 firewire ports? I'd bet a lot of this extra crap adds to the price, too. Anyway, like I said. It's nice, no doubt. But not ultimate. Check the specs, it accepts 480i, 480p, 720i, 720p, 1080i, but not 1080p as an INPUT. The native resolution is 1080p, but I thought it would really seperate this tv from the crowd if it accepted 1080p as an input. As it is, it will upscale whatever it gets to 1080p which is still sexy. But I'll probably be going with the Sammy DLP 68 series for about 1k cheaper. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Sky on August 18, 2005, 08:09:29 AM That's stupid, then. Pile of overpriced junk.
My bias toward Sammy DLPs is obvious enough ;) Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on August 18, 2005, 09:16:10 AM That's stupid, then. Pile of overpriced junk. My bias toward Sammy DLPs is obvious enough ;) Well ya, that and the missus is sensitive to screen door LCD's. But ya, the 68 series is 1080i input through HDMI, but upscales everything to 1080p. Now the nutter is whether or not I'll find one in the next 3 months for less that 3600. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Miguel on August 18, 2005, 10:02:58 AM A note on the plasma's: the burn in effect you see at the airport is because they display the same schedule information in the same format which causes the burn-in. They are displaying those images 24/7 for MONTHS. You'll never see that effect with home use unless you leave a desktop image from a PC on the screen for hours a day EVERY day!
I went through the same exercise for my home setup, and here's what I decided to get: Television Panasonic TH-42PWD7UK EDTV Plasma TV (http://www.visualapex.com/plasma/Plasma_details.asp?chPartNumber=TH-42PWD8UK&MFR=Panasonic) Reasons I went with plasma: 1) The 42" screen size was perfect for the space I had: which was a 24' x 15' room. My normal viewing distance is slightly to the right at about 15' away. 2) Off axis viewing quality: I wasn't happy with several DLP set's with the picture at 15 to 30 degree's off axis. There was very noticable darkening and loss of contrast unless I was directly in front of the set. I don't notice that with a plasma display. I have two couches that are each about 20 degrees off-axis to the screen so this was important to me. 3) I didn't want to loose floor space with projection set! Being able to hang a plasma up on the wall with a tilt mount really made the room at lot 'bigger', and allowed me to sit farther away from the screen with the same furniture configuration. Price: $2000 delievered from the company in the link above, no problems, in three days! Receiver Denon AVR-2805 (http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/photo.asp?s=home&p=AVR-2805&f=AVR2805%20FRONT%20web.jpg&c=2) This seemed to be a good mid-range receiver. I was most interested in the 3 sets of switchable component inputs on the back, plus it has a nice onscreen display that is at least somewhat intuitive to use! Price: $650 at a local Magnolia brick-and-mortar store Speakers - All from Definitive Technology BP7002 Bipolar SuperTower (http://www.definitivetech.com/loudspeakers/powertower/powertower.html) These things really blew me away in the store! Each tower features two sets of midrange/tweeter combinations in D'Appolito pairs, one firing forward, the other firing to the rear. Each tower also features a powered 12" subwoofer that is connected to the subwoofer channel coming out of the Denon receiver. Price: About $750 each (I got two of them) They also have a matching center speaker: CLR2300 Center (http://www.definitivetech.com/loudspeakers/clr/clr.html#2002) This uses the exact same dirvers as the towers (two midranges with a tweeter in a D'Apollito configuration), and has another powered 8" subwoofer firing out the top. Price: $450 Then, for surrounds: BP1.2X Surround speakers (http://www.definitivetech.com/loudspeakers/surround/surround.html) They were $400 for the pair. Then are mounted in the wall at the back of the room. DVD Player I went with a Sony Progressive scan DVD player that would output 480P. I got it for $100 at Best Buy. For TV, I am currently using the standard Phillips DirectTV receiver that outputs HD in 1080i and 720p. It came with my DirectTV setup. All in all, I think it was important to spend the cash on the TV and the speakers, since I also listen to a LOT of music on this system. I think if you buy quality stuff, it will last for a very long time and will make you happier than cheaper stuff that you may feel you 'compromised' on. :) Also, spend the money to get a receiver with a component switcher! I got my DirectTV receiver, my DVD player, and my XBox all running through this connection and it works perfectly. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Rasix on August 18, 2005, 10:24:37 AM Wewp, about to jump in the market for an HD tv.
Currently leaning toward Sony Grand WEGA 42" Widescreen Digital-Cable-Ready Rear-Projection LCD HDTV (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6784483&type=product&id=1089890510058). Everytime I go to Best Buy I'm just drawn inexplicably to this set. The picture quality just looks phenomenal. Here's what it would be for: HDTV: primarily football. Everytime I see HD football, my jaw drops open and I drool uncontrolably. Watching DVDs. Playing my console games. I like the size but anything 34" to 44" would probably be OK. Anything too big and the wife won't go for it due to our living room not being ginormous. Personally I wouldn't mind it being 50% filled up by a TV, but I would prefer to compromise with this purchase. From what I've seen an experienced, 42" would be more than sufficient for me. Budget: roughly $3k. Inspiration for all of this: my 36" 10 year old tv (a gift) is making a high pitching whining noise for 3-5 minutes everytime I fire it up. It's on the way out. The colors aren't great anymore and it's kind of a dinosaur. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Sky on August 18, 2005, 11:16:10 AM Quote But ya, the 68 series is 1080i input through HDMI, but upscales everything to 1080p. Upscaling sucks for the most part. 1080i looks great on my 720p set, 480p is acceptable, and 480i looks pretty bad. GIGO. I really don't see a reason to be getting a 1080p set for a couple years yet. Case in point would be 720p consoles this round. No tv broadcast in 1080p, no HD-DVD in 1080p, you'd be limited to the games you could run off your pc @ 1920x1080x60Hz.Quote HDTV: primarily football. Everytime I see HD football, my jaw drops open and I drool uncontrolably. I agree. MNF is 720p, btw ;) I'm not sure on the others, I know the other two network channels are 1080i, but they look stunning anyway on my Sammy. You can get the newer version of my 61" set for ~$2500. The 46" version, more along your size requirements, is very nice and should be well within your budget.But really, Ras, whatever draws you in will probably be fine. Just look carefully at the specs, you're a smart guy. Watch out for incompatibilities with your components, make sure it's got enough inputs for all of it, etc. I favor 720p because I don't like the way 1080i sets scale a 720p image, but these are things to ask to see in the store. Quote There was very noticable darkening and loss of contrast unless I was directly in front of the set. This surpises me, because my set has stunning horizontal viewing angle, I've had people sitting at 80º without any degradation except the angle itself. Vertically, sure, but at the distance I view from (10'), you can stand up without degradation, just when you get any closer than that.EDTV...ecch. Sorry to cast dispersions, but I'd never own such a thing. For the money involved (especially with a plasma edtv), I don't see why you'd make such a large compromise. (My 61" DLP was $3350 delivered white glove, next day ;)) I agree with your assessment of burn-in. It's a minute risk, but something to be aware of when evaluating usage patterns. DLP suffers no burn-in whatsoever, btw ;) The only tech that doesn't because it's mechanical not chemical. A receiver with component switching is nice, but make sure you need it. My sammy has 3 component inputs, I use one for tv, one for my xbox (no component for the GC, I use that on another tv in the house). I have 3 empty component in/outs on my Panny HE100, which I think cost me around $200-300, decent enough receiver for home theater, though I don't have the speakers to test it properly (just the surround stuff). I do tend to have that extra input open because I use my pc for DVDs, which connects via DVI (which is verrry nice). I've really got to get some better stereo gear ;) Mine totally sucks. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on August 18, 2005, 11:34:04 AM Ya, Sky, the more I read the less I want the 1080p because I'd need to invest another grand in my computer just to take advantage of it.
Plus, I could get the 61" 67 series for about 2500 at Bestbuy, maybe less once I start working there. And that could make it possible like next week :p Edit: Although, there are 2 things that really have me going for the 1080p -- 1. Viewing distance, you can get much closer to a 1080p picture than you can a 720p. 2. 1080i-1080p is a real nice conversion. Haven't seen difference between an upscaled and non upscaled picture, just going on theory craft for the most part. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Trippy on August 18, 2005, 10:09:53 PM Ultimate isn't the word I'd use. It's nice (where are you seeing it not accept 1080p, that's the native res), but I'd be holding off because it's not in a good form, assuming you want a Wega, natch. 3 S-video ins, 3 Composite ins...you shouldn't be needing either, really, both look like total garbage on an hdtv. Only one HDMI, should be at least two (for pc and cable box, the VGA port sucks, too, imo digital tv = digital source, dammit). No need for that internal tuner, comes with the cable box. What's with 3 firewire ports? I'd bet a lot of this extra crap adds to the price, too. Actually by "ultimate" I wasn't referring to the number of inputs it may or may not have but to the SXRD display technology. On paper, at least, it seems to solve most of the problems the other competing technologies have. E.g. no rainbow effect (single-chip DLP weakness), no screen door effect (LCD weakness), and very high contrast ratio (LCoS weakness). The only remaining disadvantage that it might still have since it wasn't mentioned is the viewing angle or lack thereof.Anyway, like I said. It's nice, no doubt. But not ultimate. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Murgos on August 19, 2005, 06:17:03 AM Next year you are going to start seeing the very large LCD screens. We had a guy from a major multinational vendor come demo some Point of Sale stuff for us and he was telling us about the trip he just got back from where they were training all the salesmen on the new technologies.
It's going to start out pretty outrageously priced, like 30 grand for a 72" but the prices will drop rapidly. Also, he says there is no upper limit to the size of the display. They were told a 30' HD LCD screen was entirely possible. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Sky on August 19, 2005, 06:22:25 AM Well, LCD does have the advantage of market penetration and good fabrication facilities behind it.
Trippy - I've not looked into the tech of that set, but lemme tell you....it's nice not being susceptible to the DLP rainbow effect ;) Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: OcellotJenkins on August 21, 2005, 05:51:57 PM EDTV...ecch. Sorry to cast dispersions, but I'd never own such a thing. For the money involved (especially with a plasma edtv), I don't see why you'd make such a large compromise. (My 61" DLP was $3350 delivered white glove, next day ;)) Sky, you're a knowledgeable guy and I respect your opinion in this area but your assesment of EDTV and plasma appears rather uninformed. Any normal human being with normal eyesight cannot tell the difference between 480p and 720p on a good quality 42" plasma screen, it's a simple as that. On larger screens, yes it get's very noticable but not on 42" and under. Walmart is selling my tv (Panasonic 42" EDTV) for $2000. Circuit City and Best Buy are about $200 more. The picture quality of a plasma screen can't be beat, period. It comes down to how large of a screen you want verses how much money you want to spend. Wonder why they put the plasmas on the skinny isles at best buy and the rear projections way over in the corner? You're hard pressed to find a flaw in a plasma screen up close where as rear projections need a more straight on viewing angle and distance to look optimal. You're happy with your DLP and that is all that matters, but I'm sorry, plasma has that technology beat in just about every way possible. Rear projection gets the win when you need very large screen real estate and don't want to spend the money for an equivalent sized plasma or flat panel LCD. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Shockeye on August 22, 2005, 03:47:14 AM New TVs and monitors for everyone! (http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/hardware/hdcp-vista.ars)
Quote from: Ars Technica Finally, while we're all in lynch mode, let me add the last anti-hurrah. TVs without HDCP, also known as most TVs in North America, are subject to the exact same problem. In 2004, HDTV penetration in the US was estimated at 9 percent. Of those TVs, and most of them do not support HDCP (although TVs sold today do, by and large). However, if you're heading out this weekend to drop US$3,000 on a TV, chances are high that it will support HDCP. The same can't be said of monitors, sadly. Apple's US$2999.99 30" display doesn't support HDCP, and only a handful of Dell's various options do. If you're in the market for a new display, you might want to wait until some units are shipping with HDCP support. You might think that you'll be able to buy an HDCP stripper, but there's a problem there. Once a stripper hits the (black or white) market, all a content provider needs to do is revoke the keys used by the device. It's not a solution. Between Blu-ray's BD+ and HDCPs key revocation, this next generation of tech is going to be considerably harder to crack. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Sky on August 22, 2005, 10:09:42 AM Quote Any normal human being with normal eyesight cannot tell the difference between 480p and 720p on a good quality 42" plasma screen, it's a simple as that. I disagree with what you said but I'm not going to debate it.Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Furiously on August 22, 2005, 12:14:19 PM Quote Any normal human being with normal eyesight cannot tell the difference between 480p and 720p on a good quality 42" plasma screen, it's a simple as that. I disagree with what you said but I'm not going to debate it.From what viewing distance? I can't imagine not being able to tell the difference. (Depending on the programming type). Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Shockeye on August 22, 2005, 12:15:34 PM Quote Any normal human being with normal eyesight cannot tell the difference between 480p and 720p on a good quality 42" plasma screen, it's a simple as that. I disagree with what you said but I'm not going to debate it.I would imagine it's similar to the debate about bitrates for MP3. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: OcellotJenkins on August 22, 2005, 12:48:43 PM Quote Any normal human being with normal eyesight cannot tell the difference between 480p and 720p on a good quality 42" plasma screen, it's a simple as that. I disagree with what you said but I'm not going to debate it.Well, I'm going to back up what I said with links so that others who are considering a purchase have more than just my opinion and your opinion on the matter. Impossible for most viewers to see the high definition of HDTV (http://www.uemedia.net/CPC/videography/article_10488.shtml) Plasma HDTV outperforms LCD and DLP says Imaging Science Foundation (http://digitalhomecanada.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=561&Itemid=51) Countless threads on avsforum.com regarding the viability of Plasma EDTVs (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?searchid=527604) Given two 42" Plasma TVs side by side, one is ED for $2k and the other is HD for $3k, there is virtually no difference in the picture quality and viewing experience of the two. There certainly isn't $1000 difference in the two. Don't let the buzz words cloud the truth, go to a store and see for yourself. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Shockeye on August 25, 2005, 01:57:26 PM Big-Screen Televisions
A moral dilemma. (http://slate.msn.com/id/2125023/) Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Murgos on August 25, 2005, 02:42:28 PM Big-Screen Televisions A moral dilemma. (http://slate.msn.com/id/2125023/) I missed something in that article. I think it was the point. "TV's have gotten better and cheaper in the last 10 years", is that really what he was trying to say? Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Llava on August 25, 2005, 02:46:31 PM Something about feng shui too, I think.
Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on August 25, 2005, 05:14:11 PM Big-Screen Televisions A moral dilemma. (http://slate.msn.com/id/2125023/) I don't understand what he was talking about. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Trippy on September 02, 2005, 03:38:03 AM Panasonic Cuts Plasma TV Prices by Average of $500 (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000101&sid=ahmaA4WGi_A4&refer=japan)
Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: HaemishM on September 06, 2005, 11:17:31 AM Big-Screen Televisions A moral dilemma. (http://slate.msn.com/id/2125023/) I don't understand what he was talking about. Typical shitty Slate writing, wherein a liberal apologizes for the unconscious guilt he feels at being part of the upper middle class so he can feel better about infantilizing the poor as victims of class wars. Fuck, I think I just channeled Triforcer. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Yegolev on September 06, 2005, 01:08:37 PM Typical shitty Slate writing, wherein a liberal apologizes for the unconscious guilt he feels at being part of the upper middle class so he can feel better about infantilizing the poor as victims of class wars. The air crackles with conservatism! Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: HaemishM on September 07, 2005, 12:02:50 PM The worst part about that sentence was that I was serious. Slate is a mound of shit with the occasional flake of gold-colored peanuts.
This wasn't a peanut. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Xilren's Twin on September 14, 2005, 10:37:20 AM Well, since I started this thread a while back I figured I'd tell you what I finally went with.
Got a 50" Samsung DLP HD TV, a panasonic DVD Player/Recorder that upscales to HDMI output, a pretty basic Sony 600W A/V unit and speakers and the HD kit for my Xbox. The 50" DLP fits the room I have to a t and in terms of price vs picture quality, was just hard to beat. Down the road a bit I'll replace my Sat receiver/DVR with a High Def version but thats $700 I can do later. Played some Halo2 on high def with surround sound last night. Yowsa. Xilren PS Biggest PITA to find, a TV stand I liked. Got one that's OK but not really what I was looking for. I would have preferred a wood piece rather that a silver metal stand with glass shelves. PPS In case people hadnt noticed, cables are freaking expensive. HDMI alone is like $80-100 for 4 ft. Add in 3 Digital Optical, some S video, and such and I probably dropped $200 on the cables easy. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on September 14, 2005, 11:35:48 AM Congrats!!!!!
PPS In case people hadnt noticed, cables are freaking expensive. HDMI alone is like $80-100 for 4 ft. Add in 3 Digital Optical, some S video, and such and I probably dropped $200 on the cables easy. Ya, but they're also the single most overlooked limitiing factor in picture and sound quality. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Morfiend on September 14, 2005, 01:13:09 PM Just a quick note on TVs.
If you are going to buy a TV. You should NEVER buy it anywhere except CostCo. If you have your reciept, as of right now, they will take your TV back for full refund, forever, for any reason. You could spend $4k on a TV, as long as you have the reciept, you could take it back in 4 years, and get a new $4k TV. One of the guys who works their told my friend about it. He said the best thing to do is tape the reciept to the back of the TV, so that way you have it ready in a few years when you want to bring it back for an "upgrade". This should be available for all electronics except computers. You can ask one of the people who works are your local CostCo about this. *Edit* For my stupidity. And the children. Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on September 14, 2005, 02:22:28 PM Just a quick note on TVs. If you are going to buy a TV. You should NEVER buy it anywhere except Price Club. If you have your reciept, as of right now, they will take your TV back for full refund, forever, for any reason. You could spend $4k on a TV, as long as you ahve the reciept, you could take it back in 4 years, and get a new $4k TV. One of the guys who works their told my friend about it. He said the best thing to do is tape the reciept to the back of the TV, so that way you have it ready in a few years when you want to bring it back for an "upgrade". This should be available for all electronics except computers. You can ask one of the people who works are your local Price Club about this. You must be fucking with me. Or this policy will change in 2 months. Edit: Is that costco? Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Morfiend on September 14, 2005, 02:39:26 PM Shit, I ment Costco. Sorry for the confusion.
(Hectic day here at work, we lost a t1, now fixed) Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: schild on September 14, 2005, 03:23:17 PM Price Club and Costco are the exact same thing.
Title: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: Sky on September 19, 2005, 09:22:48 AM Costco is an amazing company. One of the few big capitalist outfits I can dig. That deal is insane, like most of the way they do business (in a good way).
Xil- my tv is on a couple cheap plastic end tables. Figured I'd get something nicer someday... I got a 10' DVI cable fairly cheap, but I'll be damned if I can remember where we ordered it (via work, my tv is DVI). That set top box upgrade is a bit steep, imo, but I'm spoiled having cable. $7/mo. Love me some HD football. Quote Played some Halo2 on high def with surround sound last night. Yowsa. Welcome to the crappy clubs for jerks :PTitle: Re: Big Screen TV recommendations... Post by: MrHat on October 12, 2005, 12:33:14 PM The new 60" SXRD from Sony. (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=tv_size_50%22to80%22&ProductSKU=KDSR60XBR1&TabName=specs&var2=)
They have that set at BestBuy, it's easily the most beautiful picture I've ever seen. |