f13.net

So far I haven't found a way to profit from my tradeskills. I have 225 Leatherworking (which is the max until Level 40, because you only get the artisan quests when you reach 40) and 230 skinning and so far I wasn't able to make any serious money from it.

Getting the required materials for some items is really hard, especially when you need gemstones or elemental drops to craft something. Gemstones only drop from ore veins, so in order to get them you have to buy them from the AH if you do not have mining as a tradeskill. Elemental air, earth or the like is a very rare drop. After six weeks of play all I got was maybe 4 or five elemental components from elementals. Collecting leather is also hard because the leather drops are so random. I was at stranglethorn yesterday and after four hours of questing and killing tigers, panther, raptors and the like all I got was 40 heavy leather and some thick leather. No hides at all which are required for some of the recipes but a serious amount of medium and light leather.

So in order to speed up the process more often than not I buy components from the AH. I also need to buy certain items from the AH or vendors because I am not able to gather or craft them myself. This drives up the price at which I have to sell my items.

The other big factor is the auction house fees. When I sell Nightscape Tunic an 8 hour auction costs 15 Silver and an 24 hour auction costs 35 silver deposit. So when the auction ends with no bidder this amount is lost. Since only half of the auctions end with the item sold this also drives up prices.

So there are certain items I cannot sell to the AH with even a slight profit i.e. toughened leather gloves. I need spider silk and 2 swiftness potion to craft them. These items are either hard to collect (spider silk) or expensive (swiftness potion) but the average price for those gloves on the AH is 1 Gold which is hardly break-even. The same goes with most of the high level recipes. If I assume that I only sell 50% of my crafted items then a nightscype tunic costs me around 55 to 70 silver to make (Stacks of thick leather cost around 50 to sixty at the AH). The cheapest sellers sell those items for 75 Silver. Average price is 90. So I make around 10 to 20 silver on average per item sold. And this is with an item that is level 36.

Also most world drops are better than what I can craft. I do not wear any of the items I can craft because I have already found items of similar or better value as quest rewards or mob drops.

So to make a long story short. Crafting leather in my experience has been a waste of time. You have to gather most of the items for yourself in order to make some kind of profit, buying at the AH is seriously out of the question because then you can't compete with the guild assisted crafters. You also have to compete with quest rewards and random world drops which are significantly better than what you can craft for yourself.

I do not know how other professions work out but for me leatherworking didn't cut it so far. I have made four times the money by selling loot than what I made by selling crafted items in the same amount of time.

Do any of you fellow crafters have any tips on should I just give it up?

Jeff

Hmmm.  I find this a little odd, since I'm not having any difficulties at all.  Like you, I use skinning and leatherworking :  I'm up at around 160 on the lw and 200 odd on the skinning.  I find that there's NO problem in selling the 'raw materials' from skinning on the auction houses.  I also find, maybe because I'm a hunter or something, that I find a HELL of a lot of leather - especially when I'm skinning the hell out of pretty much everything.  (question seriously asked last night :  So, can I skin arugal ?).

In shadowfang I managed to come away with piles of leather, all of which went for decent prices at the AH.  The only problem I find with that is that half the time you're giving the stuff away since no-one starts seriously bidding until the time gets short...

Another thing I do is run concurrent characters.  Since I'm a casual player, I have a hunter and a rogue and when I'm not using one, I'm using the other to get the maximum benefit out of the Rest system :  I find that half the time my rogue can post ingredients for the leatherworking, since he's an alchemist and is more likely to have those wisdom or dex potions.

In short, I don't have your problem - maybe it's just due to the auction house differences ?  Maybe because I'm a eurofag, there's a lot of 'newbies' buying up my shit ?

I dunno....

I also play on an euro server and I skin everything that I can get a hold of (heavy populated zones like stranglethorn vale are good for this, you profit from the kills of other people).

On my server I never sold any leather on the AH. The prices are low as it is (heavy leather goes for 20 to 30 per stack buyout) but even when I only charge 20 silver for a stack, every auction will run out without bidders and I will lose the deposit.

The same goes for crafted items, even when I lower prices nearly half of the auctions run out without anyone bidding on the item and I lose the deposit. This means for the above mentioned tunic that i lose 15 or 35 silver per unsold item while I only make 10 to 20 silver as profit.  Some people even sell their items below the cost of making so this further reduces profit. It is quite frustrating.

In the last week only 40 to 50 percent of my items have been sold at the AH. So I actually lost money selling them instead of making some.

Jeff

Find yourself a guild, tradeskills are a bitch if you don't have a group of people that have the other tradeskills to compliment you.

One bit of advice that I can give... don't push your trade skill too hard. It is very very easy to outstrip your gathering profession in terms of what you can effectively gather. If you aren't 40 yet, chances are you can't farm heavy leather with any sort of efficiency, so any heavy leather recipes will be much harder for you than they would be if you just waited a little longer. I average 100 heavy leather per hour on my 41 shaman hunting jungle stalkers (40-41 raptors), so for me, heavy leather recipes would be cake. Thick leather recipes would be a pain however since I only pull ~20 per hour.

Rodent was also spot on the money in his post.

Leatherworking is ok for making money, you just have to know what people want to buy and also what is flooding the market. A Nightscape Tunic wouldn't sell well, because it's simple to make and every leathercrafter pumps them out (I was selling them to vendors to earn my mount, actually). Actually, I guess it may be pretty crappy for making money now, but when I was starting out a couple weeks after release it was still 'ok', not great. Otoh, more people might be getting tired of paying AH fees for long auctions (I did, I don't sell through the AH anymore, mostly due to the overhead those fees introduce).

But I really don't use it as a money making vehicle, for me, that's what adventuring is for. My leatherworking is just for my own armor and kits, not being in a raiding guild makes it tough to get nice gear (without buying it from the AH, which kinda kills the sense of adventure for me).

I had GREAT luck with elementals, but that's because I knew which ingredients were for leatherworking and I've fought a lot of elementals in the normal course of gameplay. I was able to gather a ton of the elemental ingredients, which I then sold off when I decided to go dragonscale. I got tired of trying to figure out which one was best for the hunter and just made a roleplaying decision. Of course a hunter would want to wear a trophy armor like dragonscale! Now I have to go play through Gothic II again (they have a dragonhunter profession).

Dragon scales are a bit of a bitch, but not too bad. I got the first 10 worn scales easily in Dustwallow Marsh while doing some quests, but when I actually became a dragonscale leatherworker, they dried right up. Moved over to Swamp of Sorrows and got twice the worn scales and even more green scales, to boot. It's just luck/randomness in action, really.

And really, listen to that bit about not pushing it too hard. Trades go up much faster and easier than levels, I can only wear the first few dragonscale recipes, and I'm 51. I just like that it takes me to new places to fight, and now that I have 'track dragonkin'...but yeah, if I went by drop rates, I'd jump out a window. Nature of the beast.

I'm a 265 armorsmith.

If you know what being an armorsmith entails to get there, you have my pity. If you don't, I suggest staying blissfully ignorant. The quests to get there put my in the hole about 50g, only now which I'm beginning to climb out of. My suggestion is to find the items that sell, but that aren't uber expensive to put up deposits on the auction house. If it costs more than 1g in deposit, you better be making well over 5g on the deal. I use that 5x cutoff on my of my merchandise.

My initial impression from tradeskills was they aren't really intended to be a profit maker but as a supplement to your character.  Since there was no nod given to even attempting to play a pure crafter (i.e. what you make is limited by what level you are, raw materials gained through adventure in the world, no crafting "quests" purely to raise skills, some recepies only dropping off mobs), it didn't look like there would be much point to being a dedicated crafter for cash.

So, if I wanted to only try and make money, I'd probably just farm raw materials with 2 gathering trades and thats it.  Like say herbalism and skinning together (plus, everyone gets cloth drops anyway).  After all, the materials are free to acquire, so whether you sell on the AH or just to npc's it's pure profit.  Selling crafted items to other pc's will always be hit and miss and you always begin from a position of cost, but getting 2 gold from just farming Liferoot seems pretty painless.

OTOH,l if it's money you're after, its probably more consistent to farm green mobs for loot to sell and not bother with crafting at all...

Hell i've even got an extra crafting skill in poison making.  Not much chance of that being useful to others since pretty much everyone who needs it will have it too.

Xilren

IMO, the best two "gathering" skills, money wise, are herbalism and mining.  I don't know specific prices for herbs, but I know the high-end ones are always in demand.

For mining, on my server and side, copper and tin sell for 50s a stack or so, iron for about 1-2g, and mithril for 3-5g per stack.  Higher metals go for more, but are less in demand.

By comparison, in my experience (I'm currently mining/skinning), even thick leather only goes for 50s a stack or so.  You can also skin dragon scales and similar things, which go for more, but they are rarer than herbs or mineral veins, and you have to kill mobs to get them.

I make almost all of my money from doing trade skills.  You need to pay attention to player's buying trends.  If you're not happy with the profit return on an item, don't make it.  Don't make items just for the sake of raising skill unless you are certain to be able to quickly recoup the costs from new recipes in the near future.

Sell the items with small profit margins on Fridays and Saturdays.  You can sometimes sell them for twice the going rate.

Don't ignore the gray recipes.  Most players have an alt or two and it drives up demand significantly, especially since the prices are usually trvial to their main.

Holy spit, man! My dragonscale leatherworking is about the same level as your armorsmithing, but it cost me exactly nada, in fact I can make a few bucks if I don't need to throw items my buddy's way (the eqholic...now with wowholicism!). Since I don't need turtlescale any more, whenever I hunt some turtles, it's free money to whip out a few pieces that will sell (there's a decent market for chain at level 40, for obvious reasons) and drop them on a 2hr auction with a fair buyout during prime time hours. Wild leather can do well if you get lucky with the random stat boosts (of the monkey, heh).

My advice: don't buy components for crafting from the AH if you want to make money selling on the AH. Unless you play the market and buy when someone dumps things cheap, I find it much easier to deal directly with other classes when I can't get the things myself (potions, buckles, etc). (Also helps that I'm a packrat and keep anything I'll ever remotely need if I can).

Quite often tradeskills aren't worth the the time unless you're just gathering.  I don't have an active tradeskill at the moment that is anything other than gathering.  I used to be a 275+ skill armorcrafter, but there's just nothing you can make that really seems to be worth keeping it around.  In retrospect I probably should have kept it just for the anti-fear trinket, which is a "I win" button for me in certain situations.

For earning potential, I'd recommend the following:

Herbalism.  There just really isn't enough people doing this for profit.  The selection of herbs on my server in the AH at anytime is fucking pathetic.

Mining.  Rare gems for the win.  Thorium sells like shit, but anything below it tends to do pretty well.

Skinning:  I had 50 odd gold after skill purchase at level 40 and a lot of my stuff I used (before I dropped leatherworking) or sent off to my alts.  It's steady cash if you just barely undercut the market and insure your goods get sold.  Devilsaur hide could net you 1 gold per and they're not hard to kill at 60.

Alchemy.  Transmutes can make you some cash.  There really aren't enough potions on the market it seems as of late.  Not enough of the high end goods.  Not sure how profitable they are though. 

Tailoring.  Purifying mooncloth could be a nice side racket.

Leatherworking.  Really, I know someone on my server that makes a fucking killing off this.  He makes the turtle scale stuff, which at the level you can make it, is OUTSTANDING stuff for a shaman (certain pieces).  He also makes sure he's always stocked with the good rogueish stuff and dragonscale.  Hell, the guy bought a 400 gold purple gun in the AH.

The thing is, if you want to sell what you make, you either need to advertise it a bit in the trade channel or just sell it lower than anyone else (if a gatherer).  I wouldn't have known how good some of the Turtle Scale stuff was unless the guy linked it in the trade channel.

Another hint, is that you should never go into competition with yourself.   If it's a crafted good and not a consumable you're looking to sell at a fixed price, don't put more than one up at a time.   Having two of the same glove up will just make your auction getting to your buyout that more difficult.  You don't want to split up two people battling for your items.  Also, ALWAYS PUT A BUYOUT.  You'll often get more than you expect this way.

Right now, I'm building up an alchemist so I can make my own potions.  I don't like relying on others to provide me my fix, so I think this is one that's going to be a necessity.   My priest alt I've maxed at 150 leatherworking and he's level 12.  Having a skinner, it's not hard to build him up.   Getting him a specialized leatherworking skill will take getting him to 40, so I don't expect to do this anytime soon.

But, really, being in a largish guild, if I need something a certain tradeskill can provide, it's just a matter of getting the materials and I'll have it.  Knowing a 300 skill person in every tradeskill has it bonuses. 

It's not always detrimental to buy components from the AH.  It's always worth taking a look, and sometimes you can get some great deals on components.  Obviously, if things cost too much, move on and take another peek at prices next time you're around.

Don't have the mindset that you are going to make specific items until you have visited the AH and seen what's already on the market, and at what prices.  Items get disqualified if there are too many of them (depends on the item and how well it sells).  Anything else that falls within your profit margin goal, make a few.  This will probably discourage competitors from making the item, as they would like to avoid competition too.

Don't price gouge unless you know you won't be making more of the item anytime soon.  As long as supplies are flowing it, your goal should be to keep inventory moving.  If supplies get cut off, wait for the best prices you can get (yes, price gouge), even if it takes a few days to sell (though I highly suggest waiting for Friday evening).

It's the armorsmith quest that hurts, not the grind. Basically you have to find about 120 bars of mithril just to get to the crafting stage. Then you have to craft various mithril related items to get the plans to complete the original quest. Then you have make 7 of those mithril ornate items to complete the quests that makes you an armorsmith. All told, you need about 400 mithril bars, 40 truesilver, and various rare gems plus grinding stones.

It sucks ass.

As an engineer, I don't think I've actually sold anything I've made.  However, having this skill adds a good bit of utility to my character in a group.  As a rogue, it's my jobt o deal damage, yet I don't really have any AE.  Well, with engineering I do.  I've got iron grenades that do more damage than a fully charged Eviscerate, and I can follow that up with an exploding sheep.  If our people need a break I can pop down a target dummy and give them a few seconds of reprieve.  It's really a pretty fantastic tradeskill, the only one I've found fun on its own in any MMOG, ever.

Is it worth it?

It depends. If you wear mail, no. If you wear plate, hell yes. IE - crafting things like this (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=Lionheart%20Helm) and this (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=19652)

WOW.  (no pun intended)

I'm picking smithing back up.

Neither of those 2 items is worth picking smithing up again.  It's debatable whether they're even worth gathering the materials to make them.  Chest piece isn't a bad piece of fire resist gear though.

I meant from the business perspective, is it worth it?  It seems far easier to buy stuff from an armorsmith than to devote yourself to it just to make your own gear, although I notice the Dark Iron Plate is BoP.

Just because players can craft their equipment themselves, it doesn't always mean that they should.  I've actually bought gear at the AH many times that I was perfectly capable of making myself, because I knew I could use the materials to make something else that would sell for more.

I'm just an easily impressed newb I suppose...

The anti-fear trinket is ok except that berserker rage already does that for me.

It's something you'll only make once, because only you can wear that chestpiece. So basically it's a quest unto itself. However, it is part of a set that gives you awesome fire resists and makes you Billy Badass in the Molten Core.

If you're in a serious raid guild that will do MC and Onyxia and you're a tank, yes it's worth it.  Otherwise, not in the slightest.  Still, that's a shit ton of dark iron ore you're going to have to mine (160 pieces).  Massive pain in the ass. 

Edit: After looking over Allakhazams.. only better BP I could see for fire resists is this (http://wow.allakhazam.com/item.html?witem=12895).   Looking overall, I underestimated just how high the AC is on this sucker.  Great BP after closer inspection.  Probably a reason most of our high end tanks are armorsmiths.

I'm a tank, though not high-end.  I should be high-end by say, next year this time.  I suppose I WILL pick up smithing again.  By the time I get to be high-end, I might have enough smithing to keep up.

I am still new to WoW.  But it looks like a lot of tradeskills (enchanting, leather work, weaponsmith) can reinforce drops (e.g. add a bonus to the armor value or damage permanently).  In this way your craft does not have to compete with drops, but can augment drops.  Does this make sense?  Do I have the correct impression? 

If so, this is a big advance over EQ/EQ2 tradeskilling.  WoW trades can enhance drops without trying to create de novo substitutes.

I'll agree on the skinning/mining.

I've funded 6 mounts and currently am pushing 300g on my main due to this.

While waiting for a group, I can just travel around picking up stones.  Skinning is nice to have because it really is constant.  You'll almost always have something that you can skin.  However, lately, the prices have been crazy low, so I'm debating taking up engineering for all the goodies.

I have 2 herbalism/alchemy alts because it's a nice skill to have while leveling up (you make pots that you can use at that level).

I really only do crafting to fill in gaps in my equipment, so I can't really comment on how to make money through crafting. I will say, though, that I really really really dislike the fact that the AH doesn't keep price histories like the AHs in FFXI do. Right now on my server, Windrunner, we have quite a number of people who buy up low priced (i.e. reasonably priced) tradeskill materials (and other items as well) and then put them back up for auction at outrageous prices.

I, on the other hand, think that's a great feature.  It reflects real markets and allows you to play the buy low, sell high game.  The commission system puts enough risk into the game to keep the prices down, because it's too risky to buy a lot and put it all on for prices at which it might not sell. 

I don't mind the buy low sell high thing in principle. Heck on FFXI I used to have fun with multiple characters doing arbitrage on the different AHs. The problem I have with WoW is that because there's no price history, somebody going to the AH to buy a particular item for the first time has no idea if the price for the item they see is historically high, low, or in between. So people are taking advantage of this lack of information by buying up stuff at the low and in between prices and repricing them as high. The commission thing is an issue, but it's kind of like spam -- you only need a few naive people to buy your items at super inflated prices to make up for the commissions you lose on the items that don't sell.

A friend of mine is a level 60 Undead Rogue on Shattered Hand, and does a lot of instance running. I know that doesn't instantly make him an expert, but he recommends weaponsmith over armorsmith for cash generation.

I'm 39 now and have 220 Blacksmithing, so I'm in the process of debating on what to do. Personally, I'm leaning towards armorsmith, since crafted armor is typically better than equal level greens, and since it'll make it easier for me to keep myself reasonably up to snuff armorwise while I pick up set pieces from leve 40 up. I mean, WTF is weaponsmith good for after you find a decent rare or epic weapon? It takes a lot fucking longer to fill out the Valor set than to find a Thrash Blade or good weapon, so stuff I make for myself with armorsmithing will have a lot more longevity.

That, and one of my best friends plays on my server as a pally, and he's the same level as me. He took enchanting and engineering, so our skills will be complementary. Another one of my friends moved from Shattered Hand (level 36 or so Tauren Warrior) since he got so fucking sick of getting ganked, and he currently has a level 15 druid doing herbalism and alchemy. Should work out nice.

Having a potion dealer in your regular group set is a must for instance runs. The advantages of a pure tank having access to fortitude and strength pots is pure gold.

My experiences with tradeskills thus far:

Having tried Tailoring i can tell you right off the bat that its basically not tailoring, its really bagmaking.  If that floats your boat go for it, i found the profit margin extremely small, competition high (thier are SO MANY bag makers on my server its crazy).  A fair amount can be made at high levels for purifying mooncloth, but thats on a 4-day timer... not much to look forward too imo.

My initial experience with enchanting was very negative.  It is the most gargantuan money sink in the game, higher then even armorsmithing.  And you wont make a DIME off it untill you get the really good stuff.  I would rate enchanting as having the highest barrier to entry (entry being the point at which you can imbue enchants that are actually wanted/worth a fuck).  HOWEVER, once you get 300 enchanting, and get certain key enchant formulae, you can make a killing.  the level 60 crowd makes alot of gold, and have basically nothing to spend it on after epic mount (900g sounds like alot but its nothing to the people that were level 60 before the game was a month old).  I see certain enchants  going for 40g's PER (icey weapon enchant seems to be the biggest).  However i highly dont recommend this profession for your 1st character, as you wont be able to afford a mount at 40, or likely even 50, and even with all that sacrificing you wont have enchanting at 300 before you hit 60... and then thier is the issue of the "dropped" enchanting formulae which have been driven up to exhorbitant prices not because thier are so many enchanters bidding but because the rich enchanters who are already established attempt to purchase all (good) formulae to stifle competition.

Alchemy.  I love this profession.  It is the ultimate profession imo, and the reason herbs are so expensive (im guessing well over 35% of the server is alch).  Alch has something for everyone.  Caster?  You get, Mana potions, potions that increase your pathetic armor, potions that make your spells more powerful, and health potions.  Melee character?  You get potions that give +str, +dex, and also the all-powerfull Free Action Potion.  At very high levels alchemy gets EVEN BETTER, with potions that give huge bonuses and last for an hour.  The only downside to alch that i have found (and its a minor one imo) is that in order to get some of the reagents, you need to fish, and some people (i happen to be one of them) find fishing boring.  Even with this minor drawback alchemy is still the profession i am happiest with.  Painless, useful at all levels, but dont even think about picking it up without herbalism.

I haven't tried blacksmithing, leatherworking, or engineering yet, so can't really speak on those except to say i have heard from many shamans that the "elemental" branche of high-level leatherworking is awesome.  If you just want to generate some extra cash and dont really wanna bother to much with fruity tradeskills just take any two of:  Mining, Skinning, or Herbalism.  Only drawback i should metion with the mining/herbalism route that i found somewhat annoying is that your "mineral" and "herb" radars are mutually exclusive i.e. you cant have them both on at the same time, resulting in me constantly having to switch between the two.

My first character (a UD mage) was tailoring/enchanting, and that is an EXTREMELY poor combination, at 43 he still couldn't aford a mount and i switched him to alch/herb and started a priest alt (now my main) who is herb/mining.  To put it in perspective, my herb/mining priest could afford his own mount by level 37, and had enough to buy my mage a mount at lvl 41...

To the poster that mentioned thorium doesn't sell for shit, thats because thorium is  what all the level 60's who grind 24/7 are farming.  What does go for alot is arcanite, if you are a miner find an alch to due business with or start an alch of your own.

That's all good info, and consistent with what I know.

There is another school of thought, though, that I have been pretty much following: do what's fun.  I have had mining since I created the character, and picked up skinning for money for a mount.  That didn't work out (I should have gone herbalism) but I did make enough adventuring and speculating on the AH to get the mount by around 42.

I have a friend who's got tailoring and enchanting, and he loves it.  Not because it makes any cash, but because it's nice to be able to make your friends and yourself things.  One day he will hit 300 enchanting and probably make some money back from it, and of course he can sell bags.  But the point is, it's fun for him.  Making mad cash isn't the only reason for tradeskills.

Here's the breakdown:

Looking for cash?  Take up Herbalism/Mining or Herbalism/Skinning, or Skinning/Mining (me).  Later on, the ore prices drop alot (thorium going for 3g/stack), however, if you get lucky and mine some good gems, you can make a killing.  Skinning is constant income, hell, if you are killing all these beasts, why the hell not earn a few extra gold from them?  Herbalism, imo, has the best potential late game for cash, because higher end herbs (icecap) sell for huge amounts.

Looking for utility (increased stuff you can do)?  Take up Alchemy or Engineering.  Alchemy, as mentioned above, is fantastic for filling in gaps  in  your class, or improving on it as well.  Rogue? Greater agility pots will make you better, Elixer of the Mongoose will make you perfect.  Warrior?  Armor pots, hp pots, free action pots.  The list grows, basically everyone can get a big benefit from alchemy.  Except mages, I don't think mages get as much from it as others do (since they already have a self int buff + mana stone + armor buff).  Engineering imo, is the best profession for PvP.  It gives melee some nice AoEs, and ranged classes some nice roots.  It adds a ton of abilities to your char that you won't have otherwise.  I like it so much on my alts that I'm tempted to give up my skinning (and Finkle's Skinner) to pick this up, maybe I'll wait till BG's come out.

Enchanting was already covered to perfection above.  That thing is a huge money waster till the end.  If you don't have a large guild to farm the better recipes, good luck making the cash back.

As for the other crafting professions: blacksmithing, leatherworking, tailoring are useless IMO, you can find stuff better all the time.  Except for that WotF trinket from blacksmithing, but seriously..

I agree with the "fun" sentiment, i just didnt find tailor/ench to have any of it.

My major beefs with tailoring are:  1st, im on a pvp server, and thierfore i want +int, +sta, and +dmg/+%crit, in that order.  Unfortunately, tailoring gear is by and large very spirit-heavy, which is useless in the areas i care most about, 1v1 gankings, and small-scale group pvp.  In addition, even if spirit were made useful by a future patch, thier is still the issue of overall available item quality.  The quest order i followed
Ragefire Chasm
Wailing Caverns
Shadowfang Keep
Black Fathom Depths
Razorfen Kraul
Scarlet Monestary
Razorfen Downs
Zul Farrack
Maraudon (just got the last item i needed from here last night after 8+ runs)

When my mage had tailoring, at almost no point in time except the very begining (level 22 and under) was anything i could tailor superior to what i had gotten from boss drops, quest items, or just random shit i find here or there.  I would have been happy if i could make cool stuff for my guild, the point was no one in my guild, or even just people i grouped with, wanted ANY of the shit i could make, even for free.  Bags?  by the time i could make some they had bought better ones off the AH.  So basically, the only thing i had left to do with tailoring was see if i could turn a profit... which it wasn't particularly good for.

I 100% agree with going for "whats fun".  I just didnt find tailoring to be very fun, because as far as i could tell even cooking and fishing had more utility.

I'm wearing about 1/3 leatherworked gear that I made (and I'm level 52). Not everyone has the dough to buy AH stuff or the inclination to get into the instancing bullshit.

That said, the high end leatherworking stuff is basically crap, and I'm seriously considering dropping it for herb/alch, so I can have some 'free' potions. But up through the levels it served me extremely well, I've always worn a significant amount of my crafted gear.

WoW is really two games. One is all about instances. I play the other.

(note I'm not bitching about instancing in general, just WoW's (and eq2's) group-only instancing, which brings in the worst of the EQ mindset into an otherwise fine game)

Um, Arcanite reaper...Dragonscale armor...Mooncloth anything

All these items are top end and very profitable/wearable.

The reaper is one of the best 2h weapons in the game, tough item requirememnts but worth it. The Blue dragonscale my shaman friend wears allows him a 6k mana pool...

I agree, i always have used dropped items over crafted ones...in the endgame though, your skills will become more usefull.

6k mana would be nice.  I kinda like having over 5k armor and 3500 hp arounds though.  Being a shaman I'm never "supposed" to be getting hit, but it happens.  And it helps now that I don't crumple when getting wailed on.  But yah, blue dragonscale is a very viable alternative especially in the roll most shaman find themselves in.  Hell for rogues you always have the Devilsaur or Stormshroud armors.   Hell, the wicked leather stuff isn't that bad to fill out the rest.  A lot of classes can get by on the crafted stuff.

If you ever find yourself in the end game, the gear will come.  Hell, 3 items away from no more green crap. 

Sky, what class are you?  As slayerik was saying, and i have heard the same from many shamen, top-end leatherworking is awesome.  In your case, even more so, since you dont like running dungeons.

I personally have 6 of my 8 Devout pieces, missing the robe and belt.

I basically carry 3 outfits around ... Instance/Group PVP (Devout), Caster Duel (Super intellect). and rogue/warrior Duel (STA/INT/ARMOR ring of protection).

I wear a crafted mooncloth vest ATM that has VERY nice stats. Anyways, enough about me. I rule :)

EDIT: Sky, farm blue dragonscales in Azshara and get some very nice gear without ever touching an instance.

By end game, you mean instances? I've been getting less blue as time goes on, I think I'm down to a single blue item - my +21 agi (and other stats) leather pants that I've had since I was around level 40...maybe ten levels since I've found a blue item. So when do I magically start finding good gear, when I put up with the baggage that instances bring (pickup groups, politics, loot arguing, hunters suck, tiem sink, etc, etc, etc)?

I do like the instances, they rock. I just don't like the bullshit I have to deal with to enjoy them.
Hunter. I agree, leatherworking kicks ass for shaman, and for rogues (+ stealth items, etc). It was decent for a hunter as I levelled up, but dragonscale is a bunch of bad options, and the others didn't seem much better. I mean, a +25 spi breastplate is nice...but not at the cost of 16 agi and 12 sta (or whatever I'm wearing now, scorpid bp), just seems like high end dragonscale is a bunch of bad tradeoffs. (noted on blue dragonscale, that's why I took it, but no recipes yet)

I'm sure I'm going to be flamed on the hunter boards. They were talking about whether hunters should be allowed to roll on leather items in instances, some people feel hunters should only be allowed to roll on mail items.

I wear two cloth items at level 52.

Ewwww....

Btw, Dire Maul is full of easy to get blues.  Anyone can do Dire Maul.

As for rolling on gear:  If you can and will use it, roll for it.   

However, realize as a hunter you are a mail class.  And compared to leather and especially cloth (jesus man, whatever stats you're getting out of it aren't worth the ac hit, really), mail is very good in the AC department.  Hunters get hit, hunters can offtank with their pets, hunters should have decent AC.  Leather I would leave for the druids and rogues if they can and will use it.  It's just common courtesy, it tends to go a long way (I love it when hunters don't give me shit over obvious shaman gear).  A lot of druids and rogues like to use their leather status as a "get items for free" card, though.  If it's not an upgrade for them, it shouldn't be defact to their coffers.

If you're having a hard time finding gear, post what you have and I can help find some easily questable/craftable upgrades.  Really, I got a lot of hunter mail leveling up that I wore until I could start switching it out.

I wouldn't say "eww". I'm not a tank, I'm more akin to a caster. I'm in melee maybe 5% of the time unless I'm intentionally in there. It's a total waste for me to wear +armor stuff.

Cloth, otoh, which is made for casters, gives me great benefits as a hunter, especially the +int benefits. Because of the lower armor value, the stat bonuses are usually very nice.

...I can solo Dire Maul at level 52? Or duo with a lvl 27 mage (the eqholic's levelling away...soon I should be a regular duo...finally)

DM's 55-60. You'd be just fine in the east wing at 55.  Leveling speeds up a lot once you get over the 49-52 hump.   Winterspring, Felwood, Azshara, Ungoro, WPL: the levels will just start hitting you before you know it.  For instances for you at the moment, you could do either Zul'Farak or Temple.  Temple I didn't really enjoy that much and it's a tad time consuming.

Having that sort of gear is fine if you're just going to solo, but instance runs aren't quite that much of a controlled situation.  You're going to be asked to pull, you're going to be asked to offtank, you're going to be in melee quite a bit actually and you're going to get smacked around a bit.  It's best not to get torn two new assholes. 

Because getting torn one new asshole is dandy?

I have no trouble levelling, nor am I in a hurry to do so. And again, I don't do "instance runs", so I really don't care how other people feel I should be outfitted. What I have works well for me.

That said, I've tried to do Zul'Farrek. I can't make it past the first bunch of mobs, 3 elites are just too much for me, even when they're like 8 levels below me, heck, I struggle with -5 elites by themselves (green dragonkin outside the Temple). This was with my 'tank' gear on, high ac/sta/agi. There was simply no way to survive all three that I could find, I wasted an afternoon trying and gave up on it. And I figured that was best case scenario, because every instance I've been in groups up mobs like that, and I had a zone line right behind me. Thus I gave up on soloing instances, too (I last tried this past weekend at ZF)...

Instances past Zul'Farak can at best by badasses be 4-manned.  5 man is doable on everything else that isn't designed for guilds.  You're not going to find solo instance content.  It just isn't there.   But if you want to stay solitary, there's more than enough stuff you can kill.  You can do tradeskills.  You can pvp.  You just can't really do the dungeon crawls.  I'd be suprised if they ever put in a level 55-60 one to three man instance.   I wouldn't be disappointed, however. 

I think alchemy is the best trade skill there is, its usefull from level 1 to 60 and beyond and easy to raise/cheap.  The crafting professions are all fairly decent, as a rogue up until level 59 before i started doing lots of instance runs i found about half my gear came from leather working (wicked leather armor + devilsaur set are very good for rogues).  I know there are epic tailoring recipes for each cloth class, im not sure how good they are for the class but they are lvl 60 epic items so i assume they are good.  The anti fear trinket itself makes armosmithing worthwhile in my book, at least in pvp, i haven't played a plate class yet so i don't know just how usefull it would be in the long run.  I assume like with leatherworking, blacksmithing will keep you decently equiped until 60 when you start running instances for set/blue armor.  Enchanting really shines at high levels, but its mostly useless leveling up, i wouldn't recommend raising this as you level up as it becomes SO much easier to raise once you reach higher levels.  Right now im an enchanter/herbalist with an alchemist alt and i find that works extremely well.

If you want to make cash don't go the tradeskill route, just take two gathering professions and watch the money roll in.  Another good way to make money as a rogue is with enchanting, being able to farm lower level instances for blue items to sell is good money, but disenchanting them and selling the shards usually doubles/triples the cash.

So far I have solo tested SM at the highest and it was doable with my Paladin at level 54.  I'm at 57 now and will try some higher stuff, but for the most part, I'd agree.  Zul or Uldaman have just too many mobs swarm you to do solo.  I suppose if your 60 and decked out with the very best gear you might stand a chance, but the pain wouldn't be worth the gain. (constantly coming close to death, long downtimes to recover from each fight, etc.)

I died multiple times in SM by the way so I'd call it even on worth the loot or not.  It was slow when I wasn't dieing too.  However, the drop rate is far far better in instances than anywhere else so it is oh so tempting.

I was thinking about trying a farming run through the Doan section (Library?) of SM- any chance I could make it through at 44? Or maybe I will just stealth through and pickpocket everything, then try Doan himself.

I've heard Doan's doable at 44.  I should probably try with my rogue just as a rite of passage.   Some mindnumbing poison might help you avoid his AE and just remember to run the hell away from him and go bandage when he does it.

Quick question, what's an arcanite bar going for on your servers? I saw about 6 on mine averaging out at about a 27g buyout yesterday. I ask because I found two arcane crystals back to back, so I'm looking to pay off my tradeskilling debt.

That's about right.  They range from 25-30 depending on who has crystals.  I bought 3 crystals for 55g the other day, and turned a quick profit on 2 transumting alts (one is a friends account).  So basically I got 1 aracanite bar for free.

I was farming in the badlands to get the money for my mount and I have made 62 gold in 8 hours off of the scalding whelplings and greater earth elementals there. I also got two level ups in the process. If you have skinning/leatherworking I especially recommend the scalding whelplings. They drop some nice loot and also thick leather when skinned. That was significantly more money than I would have ever earned by tradeskilling.

Jeff

It must be said that engineering= uber 1v1 PvP badassery.  If I'm wearing my standard engineer PvP gear, I beat anyone of +4 levels and below with ease (except priests, of course).  The Goblin Rocket Helmet should be a .001 drop 1000 gold epic item instead of a BOE 235 engineering item.  Even so, I STILL am the only one I've EVER seen wearing it.  More ownage for me...

Goblin Rocket Helmet... not familiar with that one.  It's in Goblin Engineering, I assume?  What does it do?

EDIT

Nevermind.  http://www.thottbot.com/?i=11272

Question :
As a Hunter (lvl 34), I am doing skinning / leatherworking. I am considering moving to mining / something else and I was wondering if radar detection for Hunters are exclusive with radar detection for mining/herbalism ?

Opinion on Leatherworking:
I am skinning/leatherworking, I never had any problem making progress. However the stuff I made I rarely used if I attempted to do an instance in the same level range. Dropped stuff in instances basically lasted me and made crafted gear useless to me up to the next instance run where I could replace stuff.

There is a severe competition between stuff that you can craft and stuff that people find in instances. Therefore the only worthwhile crafting skills are those that bring a benefit to loot items or that you can't find in the loot system. Leatherworking IMO falls in that category of crafting goods that are overshadowed by loot items. If it wasn't for the armor kits, I would have dropped leatherworking.

There is indeed, as someone noted, two WoW games: the instances one, and the other.

d

Yes, you can only "track" on radar one thing at a time where "Find Minerals" and "Find Herbs" count as tracking. So you can't, for example, track both Beasts and Minerals at the same time.

I find that tailoring's versatility comes more from the Very High End tailorables (Mooncloth Stuff is Sweet, The 3 Wizardweave items give you almost 60 fire resistance for MC, Felcloth gear for ShadowDamage, BAGS) etc.  In all honesty, I dont think they EVER entended Trade Skills to have End Products better then Quest/Rares/Set drops.  Not to mention that 2 of the 3 best crit pieces (Gloves of Spell Mastery, Belt of The Archmage) and the Epic Caster stuff (Robe of the Archmage/Robe of the Void etc are Tailor only, and untill recently, were Bind on Pickup (meaning the ONLY way you used to be able to get them was be a 300 Tailor.)

Generally I've found that most green tradeskill items are better than equal level dropped greens, and that tradeskill blues are slightly less or about as powerful as equal level dropped blues.

Except for the Green Iron Hauberk, which is way better than most all other mail pieces for several levels.