f13.net

E-Cigarettes, as an industry and product, are moving at such a fast pace, I don't feel like this thread will be relevant in a year. As such, I've given it the title you see above.

ALSO: THESE ARE MY OPINIONS, I AM NOT A SCIENTIST, ELECTRICAL ENGINEER, DOCTOR, OR OTHERWISE. BUT I AM ALSO NOT A MORANS, SO I'M COMFORTABLE IN WRITING ALL OF THIS UP FOR YOU ALL. IF YOU THINK IT'S WRONG, TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT OR SOMETHING.

WHY?
Feel free to skip this section if you're already vaping. This isn't for you. It's for people who want to know why the fuck people are tugging on ecigs in the most random of places. Or for people who are currently smokers.

Here's the skinny: Smoking is bad. Patches and pills either barely work, don't work, or make you bugfuck crazy and suicidal and shit. Vaping, however, completely emulates smoking minus the stuck-to-every-goddamn-thing-you-own smell and uh, the cancer. THEORETICALLY, the shit inside of e-juice is less harmful to you than the air in Mexico City. For those wondering, it contains the following: Propylene Glycol (PG) or Vegatable Glycol (VG) - or a mix of the two, Nicotine, and Flavoring. Two of those three things are super safe to consume in any form. Though I wouldn't recommend drinking flavoring.

One of them, Nicotine, is one of the most poisonous substances on Earth when consumed in too large a dose. In short, don't ever make your own ejuice with undiluted Nicotine - you don't have the hardware for it anyway. We'll talk about brewing your own shit later, but for now, just understand this. There is a very good reason NO vape company sells juice over 30mg (that would be 30 milligrams nicotine per 1.0 milliliter of eliquid). That amount is absurdly high. The highest found in cigarettes is about the equivalent to 24mg juice. Your AVERAGE cigarette is the equivalent to 12mg juice. Though, your delivery of nicotine from ejuice completely depends on the method used to vaporize the juice. Anyway, why is it not above 30mg?

Well, nicotine can fucking kill you. It skips the whole cancer bit.

That out of the way, nicotine is a wonderful substance that I have no problem consuming. I'm sure my doctor would disagree, but, eh, fuck him. If you want to read more shit about nicotine, click here (http://science.howstuffworks.com/nicotine2.htm). I'm not a doctor, I just know I'd rather not get cancer but still get the improvements I get from nicotine. One of the primary reasons I'm big on caffeine too. Obviously, I'm not a role model.

But schild, what about those studies that say ecigarettes have formaldehyde and fucking antifreeze and diacetyl-based flavoring? Well, reader. They're fucking buckets of lies. I'm not sourcing all this but it's pretty easy to find:

1. Diacetyl was found in a shitty Chinese liquid. Tip: Don't buy shitty liquid from China.
2. Formaldehyde was never found in actual eliquid. IIRC, it was found in the burning remnants of what was used as filler material. Why? Well, a fucking FDA study a few years back decided to burn through store-bought shitty ecigs using a machine and they amped it up to levels completely unreasonable for a human being to even hold let alone inhale. Frankly, the whole study was absurd yet newspapers keep quoting it because of THE RED SMOKING MENACE or something. Anyway, I blame big tobacco for not correcting these fuckers.
3. Antifreeze - oh fuckoff. Yes, PG is used in antifreeze. It's not the part of antifreeze that can kill you. That whole claim is made by morons.

LAWS LAWS LAWS. Yea, America is a shitshow right now. Lots of counties and shit are trying to just ban ecigs the way they banned cigs. These are misguided old fucks that will die soon enough. The young ones are shitheels whose disdain for the product should be met with rigorous hatred. People should be CELEBRATING an alternative that keeps people from smoking and isn't harmful to themselves or people around them. Yea, yea, the jury is still out on how much "harm" ecigarettes do to the person smoking it. Spoiler alert: It's going to come back so positive that it will be available right next to the patch on store shelves. Or behind the counter or whatever. Here's this:


I mean, the studies have basically come back, from multiple sources in fact. Just not the right ones. What you're looking at is a list of nitrosamines found in ecigs, cigs, patch, snus, etc. I made the chart look nice but I yanked it from here (Click Me! (http://www.v2cigs.com/blog/2012/03/are-e-cigs-safe-a-cigarette-comparison/)). V2 was nice enough to link their sources at the bottom. Anyway, long story short - I am completely unconcerned. Compared to cigarettes, we're talking TRACE amounts of all substances. That said, maybe we're all looking at the wrong thing and instead of cancer it causes something else. Who knows. But I know I'm not smoking and I'm still getting my sweet, sweet nicotine. This is here (along with that link) so if someone gives you shit about vaping or you want a number-based reason to quit smoking - well, this is about as good as it gets. End fo the day, this shit is better than cigarettes. Most people want folks to say less harmful - nawwwww, that isn't for me. As someone who thinks nicotine is just fantastic, well, these little juice delivering devices are just straight better.

THE STATE OF ECIGS IN THE US (AND THE WORLD, REALLY, OTHER THAN CHINA):
The USA is WAY ahead of the game in terms of ejuice. We have lots of suppliers of pharmaceutical grade nicotine, among high quality flavoring, and good PG/VG. We also have exceptionally good engineers making exceptionally good product. A lot of ex-manufacturing folks have turned ecigs (read: mods, atomizers, and juice) into full-time jobs. I'll get into that when I talk about specific product. But suffice it to say, the US is fucking crushing everyone else.

The Phillipines have taken their Pinoy-labeled shit and sort of dumped it on the US market. I don't care how many fans it gets, the quality is straight inconsistent. Their customer support is nearly non-existant. They're doing too much, too fast, and trying to be relevant. They're not. I would recommend just ignoring them.

Asia (not China): Japan, South Korea, and Malaysia has some interesting things happening. I'm going to keep watching them, but they are certainly getting there with their product. On average, it's NEARLY as good as America. But not quite, not yet. Some of the stuff however, is the best in the world.

Central/South America: A dude named Pedro makes something called the Caravela. It's really nice. There's a handful of other shit coming out of these areas but, they're no better than the stuff coming out of America or Greece. Speaking of...

Greece: Whoa, fucking Greece. I know right. Anyway, they have some spicy shit coming out of there. In fact, my current main vape is a combination of German and Greek produced product (with eliquid from America - I ONLY vape eliquid from America - not even going to give other countries a chance. Fuck'em.). Anyway, Greece has a couple exceptional mod-makers (Atmomixani for one).

Germany: The Kayfun is made there. That's really all that's relevant. More on this later.

Europe (outside of Germany and Greece): There are modders, and a handful of them are very, very good. I'll talk about them, but I feel no need to separate them out right now.

GREAT, WHAT IS AN ECIG?
You know, I have no clue why websites are so shitty at writing what an ecig is or how one works or otherwise. EVERY single e-cigarette consists of the following three parts:

1. Battery
2. Tank
3. Atomizer

That's IT. A battery to power an atomizer that vaporizes eliquid from a tank. It's one of the easiest things to use on the planet.

Is that too confusing? OK then, it's a flashlight that has a thing on the end that you suck vapor out of. Now I'm going to skip straight to breaking down each part of the ecig (broken down further into each type), IN THAT ORDER. Because frankly, this shit should be easy to understand. There doesn't need to be a Vaping for Dummies.

1. BATTERIES:
IN CIGALIKES: The battery generally starts where the top part ends. It's typically noticeable. For example, in the NJoy King (http://www.njoy.com/), it runs from the tip (think of it as the lit end of a cigarette) to where it starts looking like a cigarette filter.

IN EGO STYLE: In eGo-style batteries (http://i.imgur.com/RznLPIF.jpg) It's everything from below the button to just north of the bottom (or sometimes to the bottom). It is what you're going to screw your tank onto. It is a self-contained battery that can power a lot of shit. It is generally charged through an adapter that looks like this (http://i.imgur.com/r1OFNLe.jpg). They come in both long and short varieties and each one has a different mAh rating (milliampere-hour) which is a rough indication of how long it will last before needing to be recharged.

BATTERIES: Uh, they're batteries. I use Efest IMR Button Top (http://www.rtdvapor.com/online-store/batteries) batteries. Some mods call for other ones. They work like a battery. They run out and you recharge them. Fin.

2. TANKS:
Well now, there's a whole lot of fucking different tanks. Let's cover the popular ones first.

1. Clearomizers: These are the MOST common tanks you'll come across. They run the gamut from CE4 plastic kinda-shitty tanks to a little better but-still-too-airy-a-draw Kanger Protanks. These have replaceable atomizers, which cuts down on cost. The plastic ones can crack when you fill them with a citrus, cinnamon, anise, or mentholated juice. Actually, it's not that they can crack. They DO crack. They also fog. No one really knows what happens when this occurs. In fact, the first thing I try to do is to get people off clearos if they aren't VERY aware of the juice they're dumping into it. Then there's the glass ones that can take any type of juice. I recommend them (Kanger Protank, Dbox Puritank, etc) to beginners because they can go hog-wild with whatever sort of caustic-towards-shitty-plastic juice they want. Anyway, nearly every "first-time" vaper starts out with these... or

2. Cartomizers: In short, these look like the filter of a cigarette. Most are longer than a filter, but they emulate that filter feel unless you put a driptip on them. Effectively, they're a combination atomizer / tank. There's a filler material (oh the source of so many problems for ecigs) that soaks up ejuice and sort of sits there waiting to be vaporized by a coil near the bottom (or sometimes the middle, or wherever). When used correctly, these things are awesome. I'm a fan of slotted Boge 2ohm cartos that can be found at Kidney Puncher (http://www.kidneypuncher.com/5-pack-of-boge-slotted-2-ohm-510-cartomizers-stainless-steel/). What a sweet domain name. Technically not a tank but the juice has to sit somewhere. A lot of people start on cartomizers (which is basically, like, stone age technology at this point). I'll talk about the atomizer more in next section.

3. Everything Else: You know, there's a shitload of things with tanks on the market, but the rest fit firmly under atomizer. So let's go!

3. ATOMIZERS: THIS IS WHERE WE REALLY GO DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE, BUT THIS SHIT IS AWESOME, SO LIKE, READ IT OR DON'T WHATEVER
First of all, what is an atomizer? Well, it's the element that heats ejuice to create the vapor. Ok, then why the fuck are some of them so elaborate? Well, those are rebuiladable atomizers (RBAs). Lots of very smart dudes make very good RBAs, and frankly, this is the ONLY part where things get a LITTLE complicated. There are lots of sources on the internet that get into them, but I'll give you the VERY brief version.

An RBA consists of, really, 4 parts:
1. The thing you build the coil on.
2. The thing that plugs into the battery.
3. The thing that we call a "driptip."
(sometimes) 4. The thing that is really just a specialized tank.

There are 4 styles of RBAs:
1. Genesis Style: These have a positive and negative post to wrap your coil onto. The coil heats a wick. The wick feeds from a tank below the posts.

2. Kayfun Style: This isn't what these are called, but effectively, they range from simple sort of Kanger Protank style things to vacuum sealed channel-delivered devices. They're rad and they're what I primarily use myself, specifically the Kayfun Lite.

3. Dripping (RBDA - Rebuildable Dripping Atomizer): These are what people use when they want to blow big ass clouds and refill their shit ALL THE FUCKING TIME. Basically it's anything from a single to quad coil setup that has a bunch of wick material and you apply the juice directly to the wick. I hate these. Lots of people love them. To each their own, they're still not smoking, so yay!

4. Everything Else: There's all sorts of different designs out there from Mojo's AIOS-D/T (basically a complex dripper with tank system that costs 200 duckets) to the vertical coil bizarre dripper. I mean, these technically fall into the other categories, but they're JUST complex enough that they fall into their own category. Generally, I don't dick around with these. Hell, I can't even tell you how to rebuild the Piculisci from Scientist (http://i.imgur.com/YtYoBM6.jpg).

So, my personal styles of choice, are genesis and Kayfun. They're very, VERY easy to build and aren't TOO finicky. Those two points are IMPORTANT to me. I don't want to futz around with my stuff every time I need more juice or something arcane has happened inside a stainless steel shell. My Kayfun will go 4-5 tanks without needing any sort of dry-burn or clean and my genesis, well (I'm on an iHybrid Pure atm), that thing has gone through 8 tanks with nothing more than a wash and wipedown of the deck and glass (which I did by choice because I've been filling it with a green juice that taints whatever it touches - Mad Murdock's Radiator Pluid for those wondering).

Now, let's get down to the nitty gritty of why "high-end" ecig shit SEEMS complicated. Coils. Let's break those down. They consist of two parts:

1. Wicking Material
2. The actual coil

So, generally, there's a handful of accepted wick materials. They are as follows:
1. Stainless Steel Mesh - Generally used in Genesis style atomizers. This stuff is great and super easy to use.
2. Silica Wick - the sort of standard up until recently. I don't recommend this.
3. Sterilized Cotton - as in fucking cotton balls. A handful of people have decided this is a good idea. They're also a handful of idiots. Don't use anything notably flammable. Yeesh. I shouldn't have to spell this out. Unless of course, you know what you're doing. In which case, any problem you run into is your own. I advise against this shit.
4. Ekowool - Now we're talking. Temperature resistant, highly durable. Wicks like a boss. MASSIVELY heat resistant, let along temperature resistant. This stuff is *the shit.*
5. Ceramic - Some people like these. They break easily. They're highly porous and wick very, very well.
6. Stainless Steel Cable - whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, what. Cable? Yup. Cable. Apparently it wicks really well. Sometimes too fast. Crazytown. I don't fuck with this, yet. So I have no opinion. It's a relatively new development. Fucking vapers will use anything for a wick. I'm just waiting for someone to break their tank with the end of the cable. Bound to happen sometime.

I'll be talking about 1 (SS Mesh) and 4 (Ekowool) because I believe those to be both the easiest, and most tolerant to the end user totally fucking up.

Stainless Steel mesh is some of the easiest shit on Earth to deal with. You basically, well, fuckit, here's a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdGUN0sgYCo

I don't do all that torching and shit though because, uh. You don't need to. Also, my wick is MUCH shorter than that. You know, I'll just post pictures next time I rebuilt it. Needless to say, I assure you, it's daunting and weird to work with at first, but man I could do it blind now.

Ekowool. Uh, you like, wrap wire around it and put the wire into some posts. Here's a video of Pbusardo reviewing the Russian - which is a clone of the Kayfun. It really is dead simple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to0oHiETyAg

NOW NOW, I know what you're thinking - that doesn't look simple. Well, it is. So, like, there. Source: Me. Who has been vaping for 6 months who happens to like to do research.

With that out of the way, here's the deal with coils. They don't have to be perfect, they just have to heat evenly. Well, how do we achieve that?

Carefully.

Seriously, wrapping a coil isn't like an art or anything, but you want to make sure the leads (ends of the coil) coming off of the posts (where you screw the coils down) aren't touching anything and wind into a somewhat consistent coil around whatever you're using as a wicking material.

That's, like, about it. I use 32AWG Kanthal wire. A 4/5 wrap (can see 4 coils on one side, 5 on the reverse) on 2 layers of Ekowool yields about 1.2ohms.

Whoaaaaaaaaaaaa. Ohms. You know, some people understand them, some don't. I just understand the results. Ohm rating dictates the resistance of the coil. Even on shit like Kanger Protanks (where the head is replacable), there's an ohm rating. If you're not using a mechanical mod (COMING UP NEXT), but rather a variable wattage/power mod, the ohm rating will basically tell you where you want your power to be set. Wait? What? Oh, this part is easy - just click me! (http://i.imgur.com/t4ZzF69.jpg)

BONUS - MECH(ANICAL) MODS
Basically, these are elaborate flashlights, most commonly featuring a 510 connection on the end so you can thread nearly any atty (atomizer) onto it.

The build quality is relevant. You don't want shit breaking, or shorts happening. You also want proper vent holes in case a battery decides to go ape shit on you. In the post after this one, I'll be talking about my own equipment, but in short: These can get expensive, but in recent experience, I have found them to be worth the money (and still less than smoking).

BONUS - HYBRIDS
These are cool. Basically, they are all in one units (just add wick, wire, and battery!) that give you an advanced setup in a pretty cool design. They come with both dripping and genesis style atties on the end, but the deal here is you're stuck with whatever the atty is.

What happens here though, is they remove 2 points of contact for the atomizer, effectively reducing the voltage drop from the pin transfer at the end of the battery. Basically, cleaner, more consistent power.

I can and plan to elaborate further on all of this, but feel free to throw questions at me about any particular part (or ask for recommendations). The second post in this thread will contain juice reviews/comments and hardware reviews as I plow through shit. As a hobbyist industry, the whole thing is really in an interesting space at the moment while corporations move glacially to enter it.

ADDENDUM - SO WHAT ABOUT CHINA ANYWAY?
Well, China is just cloning shit and putting out really fucking shoddy devices (comparatively). Frankly, I'd rather no one support them, but they do put out the easiest to understand products at the base level. Their mechs - even the 1:1 clones (except in VERY RARE CASES) - tend to be crap. Though, sometimes, they knock it out of the park. For example, there's a clone of the Electric Angel mod that's apparently simply better than the original. Unfortunately the EA is kind of an ugly dog of a mod and no one cares about it anymore as it's so outdated. Also, there's the clone of the Kayfun (The Russian) and Kayfun Lite (Russian 91%). The latter is actually BETTER than the original, adding airflow control. Nonetheless, its' still too much of a crapshoot. There are like ten new products a day from China, and out of every 100 of them, 99 of them are total shit. I don't gamble with shit that can explode, electrocute, or leak juice all over my shit.

THIS POST RESERVED FOR REVIEWS AND SHIT, AND A FAQ PROBABLY.

Before I jump into describing juices. Assume that every single one has had at least 2 week steep time unless it says otherwise. Lots of people have different methods of steeping. For me, I just leave the bottle open 24/7 but seal it and give it a good shake about once or twice a week. All of my bottle are always left open all the time though.



The Vapor Chef (http://thevaporchef.com/):

• Honey Pearry - Easily the best juice from Vapor Chef. Unfortunately, it's not as good as Melon Medley from the Jameson's line of juices (made by SAVEUR, who also makes The Standard and Blueprint lines of juice). It costs about half as much though, so there's that.
• Hobbes' Blood - I mean, it tastes like a Tiger's Blood snow cone. You either liked that as a kid, hated it as a kid (loser), or never had it (depressing loser). It's delicious.
• Unicorn Poop - Probably my favorite "cupcake" flavor. I don't vape cupcakes that much though. This does a reasonable impression of about 2 weeks steep time.
• Butter Beer - Butter Beer is basically a butterscotch flavor. It's OK when you get it - as in, I would vape it immediately. After steeping the butterscotch becomes too strong, imo. I have a half full bottle I can't even finish. Ugh.
• Chamberry - This does not taste like Champagne and Strawberries. I don't know what it tastes like. But it's fucking delicious after 2 weeks steeping, even better after a month.

Your comments about stainless steel mesh and steel wire reminded me of something: When I was still fiddling around with these things, one wick material that worked extremely well was titanium wool.  Virtually indestructible, corrosion proof, and tolerant to heat at temperatures that would make the coil pop like a flashbulb.  You could 'clean' it with a butane torch, and titanium is so biologically inert they use titanium oxide in tests for silicosis and other lung diseases.

E-cigs are more like pipe smoking than cigarettes in a lot of ways, one of the biggest being collecting and fiddling with the gear.

--Dave

Where is big tobacco in all this?  I would have thought they would jump all over a new option but I've yet to see a brand I recognize, that said I don't think it's as big here in Canada yet.  Are they doing anything or would this actually hurt them?

My parents have been unable to quit smoking for decades.  I would be more comfortable looking into and suggesting this if a major cigarette company released a product rather than all these small fly by night type things.  I recognize the irony of trusting companies who are in the business of killing people for profit to make a safe, high quality product.

Also, if a country's regulators decide one day boom "no more of this vaping stuff it's all illegal now", how hard would it be to go back to smoking?

You'd trust tobacco companies to put out a 'safe product'? Seriously, Miasma, think about what you're saying. Big tobacco is not in this because its far easier to quit e-cigs than tobacco. They are also run by crusty crazy cakes and would be far more likely to fund hysterical politicians trying to ban ecigs than to actually promote its use. Its the equivalent of asking why Apple isn't making a Linux OS.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying getting off ejuice would be easy, but significantly easier than tobacco.

Schild:  I'm willing to offer any science that might be helpful to this endeavor.  I have expertise in pharmacology (particularly toxicology and drug delivery) as well as surface chemistry.  I will do my best to provide information in an unbiased manner with references. 

Just throwing that on the table in case anyone has any questions of a scientific nature.

All of my questions are scientific.  Although I stopped smoking already, if my friends converted it would save me from social smoking.

It's a devil you know type of thing.  Both options are bad for you, there are no angels in this product area.  Big tobacco is watched like a hawk and already have incredible amounts of government scrutiny, if they screw up the nicotine dosage or something they have a lot to lose.  These small boutique style juice people could just disappear and open up under a new name.

And I don't want to derail the topic but Apple basically is a linux OS now.  Or blend of unix or however you want to describe what they built on top of BSD.

If big tobacco was willing to get into the higher end space of the market, it MAY actually be a good thing. They have actual scientists and engineers and smart people and shit. The hobbyist market has... hobbyists. No, big tobacco (specifically RJ Reynolds, Phillip Morris and Lorillard) is instead dicking around in the cig-alike space because it's the lowest barrier to entry. That said, they may think this is just a very sizable fad, particular in the geekspace it currently sits.

Anywhere, where are they? Off making ecigs be as close to cigarettes as possible. If you haven't tried an NJoy King but vape, you owe it to yourself to try one. Goddamn thing is an ACTUAL electronic cigarette.

Oh, also, they're trying to get ecigs regulated so they control the distribution chain and retail space.

ding ding ding ding ding!

There's a glimmer of hope they won't be successful though. There's enough testing going on and proof going around that it's useful as a smoking cessation device - which would see it regulated in a completely different way. A not-so-good-way at that. I don't know which is worse. But in a couple years, I will likely have a STOCKPILE of juice (if not sooner) because it just won't be available... but wick, wire, and mesh always will be.

I've gotten so lazy when it comes to my ecig purchases ever since a store opened up near me that sells most eGo 510-style stuff. I just go there when I need a new wick or I sit weird while drinking and break my battery (this is how 95% of my batteries break)

You're in SoCal. You have access to Ecig City, Local Vape, Vape Revolution, etc. You have no excuse for continuing to use eGo style batteries. For real.

Blu Cigs is owned by Lorillard (Newport and Kent cigarettes).  Mostly the tobacco companies are hoping it will go away, they're seeing it seriously eat into their profits in Asia.  ASH (Action on Smoking and Health) is a tobacco front group that is behind most of the push to ban e-cigs in the US (they're the ones that requested that FDA study).

--Dave

Is it even possible to get juices that do not contain any nicotine?

Yes. It's referred to as 0mg or 0 nic. The placebo effect is strong if you've gotten your nic level down enough. I've gone from 24mg to 12 in like 6 months.

THANKS!  You should get money for this.  It's a proper article and stuff.  You should fact check as much as possible and publish it.  Can I copy it all and send it to my nephew or would that make you shy?  I only ask because I'm not sure I could say all those words to him. 

Eh, sure, go for it.

In other news, I should be getting that package from SAVEUR vape today, om nom nom.

When I quit smoking the hardest part after the first few weeks was not having something in between my fingers.  That fidgety craving of missing the physical thing in my hand lasted for years longer than the desire to smoke.  The fact that they sell 0mg is really interesting and makes me wonder how many people are addicted to the action and process, less than the nicotine. 

This article was pretty awesome, thanks for sharing this info.

Got my giant package of juice. Expect reviews soon-ish.

I appreciate your effort, and agree with pretty much everything you had to say.  A study published recently in the Lancet Medical Journal showed that e-cigarettes are as at least as effective as Nicotine patches in helping people quit or cut down on smoking.  Linkage (http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2813%2961842-5/abstract).

I had also read an article recently, which I'm unable to track down at this point, that referenced a paper that theorized that beyond a certain threshold, it was more beneficial for ex-smokers to continue nicotine replacement therapy indefinitely.

As far as concerns of legality and stockpiling juice, as long as Nicotine itself doesn't get classified as a controlled substance, it's trivially easy to make your own.  I'm lazy, so I don't bother, but a friend of mine has been making her own for months now, and I've helped, it's literally just following a recipe and tweaking it to personal satisfaction.  The PG/VG and food flavorings will always be available, so worst case scenario, there's a way to still obtain it.  It may not be Boba's Bounty or Hobbe's Blood, but I'm sure there's something viable for everyone if it really came down to regulations.

I smoked 2 packs/day for 25 years, and I have been vaping for almost a year exclusively now.  Aside from saving me $500/month in cost, I feel a hell of a lot better too.

Phil

What's your setup like, Ralence?

Also, I was going to review Boba's Bounty but really, that shit ruins coils too fast so I couldn't bring myself to even partially recommend it.

I'm using interchangeable protank coil atomizers, EVOD's and Protanks with EGO-twists for work and out and about, just for portability and convenience.  It's also nice to be able to keep a charger in my car, at my desk at work, at my GF's, at $3/each or something, I have a dozen scattered all over.  I'm deathly afraid of running out of battery or juice when I'm out and about.  I like the fact that I can dry burn and rebuild the protank coils, and the fact that they are frequently on sale for $1.50 or so each is really nice. 

At home I have a few mods.  Vamo (Which i still use as an ohms tester for coils), Sigelei 8, Sentinel M16, and a Chi-You clone, with either AGA-T2 or a Smoktek RSST.  The RSST is probably the simplest and most newbie friendly RBA, at least from my experience, but it's limiting in that you can only use a single coil.  The AGA-T2 is awesome, but it just burns through liquid.  I'm not sure I benefit from the giant clouds, and that I'm not just wasting the liquid into the atmosphere.  It did give me a headache the first few days of using it, from the nic overload, so I dropped the nic level in the juice I vape at home to offset it.

And you're right about coils gunking, from my experience the darker liquids just make a mess.  I've been sticking with Hobbes Blood, and Magilla Banilla (From esixvapors.com), just so I can get a month or so out of each coil.

I've done most of the seemingly typical evolution.  Started with cig-alikes, got sick of refilling them, moved onto ego's with ce4's, got sick of replacing them, moved to iclear16's for the replaceable coil/wick, got sick of the wicking issues, so I moved on to Kanger T3's with bottom coil, which I really preferred but leaked like a sieve, and then found Protanks and EVODs, which I'm extremely content with.  For batteries I started with 650mah EGO's, moved on to 1000mah VV, then realized I was sick of charging three batteries a day and bought the Vamo for home use.  The others are mostly just toys, I'm perfectly content with a Protank on my Vamo for the most part, but I wanted to experiment and try out the other things that were available.

Also newsworthy on the topic is the HongKong preventing shipping of batteries out of China.  Apparently a lot of people are having them stopped in customs based on a law they passed back in January, but didn't ever bother to enforce until now.  Not that I ever trusted batteries from China, but some of my friends had been getting the panasonic 18650's from there.

Yea, I've been considering buying like 20 batteries from RTDvapor just so I never have to worry about it again.

Also, yea, I did the protanks and stuff for a while. For ease of use they're great. For flavor, well, let's just say I don't like the flavor of non-ekowool Silica and it's easier to rebuild a kayfun.

What do you do about portability?  I just can't see myself carrying around a mod to go out with.  Or do you just figure fuck it, bring the flashlight?

Keep in mind that the lifespan of Li-Ion batteries are limited to 2-3 years no matter what (chemistry degrades inevitably).  So you should plan on completely replacing your batteries every year or two no matter what.

Fake edit: I carry my Ego-compatible 18650 unit hanging from a lanyard around my neck.  Got tired of losing or breaking things.

--Dave

I'll use a lanyard when hell freezes over.

The Nemesis in 18350 and even, to a degree, in 18490 mode is super small. Shorter than an eGo Twist 1100mAh, that's for sure. The Kayfun Lite is a little big, but eh, it's still shorter than a VAMO with just about any tank on it. Also, the Kayfun Lite don't leak if you don't build it like a goon.

Edit: When I'm gone for the whole day, I just suffer the 18650 mode. A modder is about to put out a hybrid adapter for the Nemesis / Kayfun combo next week, so it'll be a few cm shorter. Pretty stoked about that.

Can you share pics of the stuff you use personally?

Here's some grabbed of the internet since it's not dismantled atm. In order:

1. Nemesis Kalafan (Battery Mod)
2. Kayfun Lite (Atomizer)
3. iHybrid Pure (battery + atomizer hybrid)


And this should be coming in sometime in the next 3 weeks. It's a Doc Dave / iHybrid Collaboration hybrid:

I got one of the tanks with a metal tip. Makes every inhale taste metallic. I'm hesitant to get any tank with a metal tip.

I hate metal tips. I use Delrin ones. Specifically, these: http://www.modnworld.com/product_p/dta.htm

I don't have a calming hobby and I need one.  My shrink says so.  I wonder if this would make a good hobby.  I LOVED smoking.  They make stuff even without nicotine, too.  I could puff away like I'm Greta Garbo.  My shrink suggested making some sort of feathery shit for fly fishing, which I don't understand at all and it looks dangerously pointy.  Or painting.  I would probably paint pictures of people smoking.  So, what do you think?  Or is this just stupid for a hobby?  I mean you guys seem SO into it and it even has terminology!

PS  This isn't a joke post, please.

I kind of laugh when people keep saying vaping and juices in a serious tone.

Oh hey Schild did you see vape fest 2013 is going to be at the Flaminco in Vegas Sept. 20-21?

I hate the lingo, but I get why it caught on. It doesn't involve the word "smoking." 'Juice' is a questionable term though.

Edit: About Vapefest, that's funny. I hadn't noticed. I was actually going to be in Vegas that weekend and decided not to go. Whoops. ECC is the same weekend though in Cali, and all the good modders will be there anyway.

Aside from scientists and engineers having big tobacco would also bring in marketing people with enough competence to realize calling this liquid "juice" would trigger a gag reflex in 80% of prospective customers and then proceed to call it something much better.

Every time I hear the word in this thread all I can think about is drinking the contents of a spittoon and I want to vomit.

The mistake Big Tobacco is making, I think, is trying to make disposable E-Cig size devices the de facto standard. They don't realize that people who are like, uh, "vapers" want to remove themselves from the cigarette smoking arena. Besides, that device has already been perfected in the NJoy King and NONE OF THEM are going to be able to do it better. The goddamn King is like smoking an actual cigarette. Even tastes like one. Little fucker is crazy.

Anyway, I really, very badly, want cigarette manufacturers to not think of these things as cigarettes. That's the cancer that will kill the industry.

They want the continuing money. A pack a day smoker won't go through eight dollars of juice a day.

It's very true, but the profit in the juice is phenomenal as well.  Cost to manufacture is around $.05/ml, and that's after purchasing the PG/VG/Nic/Flavoring at retail prices, and retail is closer to $.55/ml or so.  I go through 5-6ml/day, so figure that's $3.00 in profit.  With actual cigarettes, their retail is something ridiculously low like $2.00/pack, the other $6 is all taxes.  So they were probably making $1.00/day profit from me at 2-packs/day.

So theoretically, and I'm only half talking out my ass here, they would actually make more profit in juice than they ever did in cigarettes themselves, at least until the Gov't gets involved for some of that sweet sweet tax revenue.

So, you don't want to jump in with $300 dollars of stuff and just want to try ecigs... What do you do?

http://www.mtbakervapor.com/e-cig-starter-kits/smoktech-510-dc-automatic-starter-kit/ (http://www.mtbakervapor.com/e-cig-starter-kits/smoktech-510-dc-automatic-starter-kit/) You can get this stuff cheaper from China, but they are having a bit of an issue shipping batteries currently. (Also these types of atomizers are really nice for testing if you like a juice flavor). They also have really cheap juice and it's of decent quality. http://www.mtbakervapor.com/nicotine-juice/cinnamon-roll-e-juice-baker-vapor/ (http://www.mtbakervapor.com/nicotine-juice/cinnamon-roll-e-juice-baker-vapor/)

Should be able to try the experience out for less than 40 bucks. (they also have really fast shipping).

Gimme a few, I'll post what *I* would tell a new vaper to get (I went through ALL the new vaper gear, trying to find something decent).

If I were to start vaping today, I would have wanted to know the following:

• Buy shit from Fast Tech. You're just starting out, you'll be buying Chinese bullshit from any vapor store, might as well buy from Fast Tech. Besides, they take paypal and shipping is free. You're going to find out very quickly that nearly no one in America takes Paypal - the American branch hates vaping (well, anything related to or tertiary to cigarettes).
• You CAN start with an eGo-Twist style battery, but eh, they sort of blow ass.
• Start with a VAMO or Innokin MVP or even a mech. Seriously.
• Understand what "caustic" juices can do to a tank and plan accordingly.
• Flavor and quality of vapor is more important than the battery driving it.

That said, if someone handed me $100 for gear (don't roll your eyes, if you're a pack a day smoker, you spend that much in 15 days - in Virginia no less), I'd get the following:

BATTERIES:
1. Innokin MVP: http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10004594/1352000-innokin-itaste-mvp-5-in-1-voltage-adjustable
OR
1. VAMO: http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10004394/1350600-vamo-v2-variable-voltage-rechargeable-e-cigarette

The VAMO comes with 2 batteries. Don't stack them. You're not driving a big atomizer, they'll last a bit. When they're full the VAMO will read 4.2, when they're running dry it'll tell you (~3.2 if you're wondering). The VIVI NOVAs that come with the VAMO are shit. I don't even like the iclears that come with the MVP.

ATOMIZER:
PLASTIC: About caustic juices - strong menthols, cinnamons, banana, and citrus (lime, lemon, orange, tangerine, grapefruit, etc) flavors can crack / degrade / cloud plastic tanks. If you like things like that, DON'T BUY PLASTIC GODDAMN TANKS. So many stores don't even follow this rule and will sell someone fucking Ecto Cooler with a plastic tank. People are most stores are idiots.

1. X10: http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10004996/1389502-x10-protank-atomizer-4-0ml
with these heads: http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10005274/1423110-clearomizer-coil-heads-for-kanger-protank-5-pack

PYREX: This will take any juice. Yay!

1. Kanger Protank-II - http://www.fasttech.com/products/1411/10004861/1429700
It's out of stock atm, but yea, that. There aren't enough glass tanks for noobs. There should be more. I don't like telling people to get carto tanks when they start, so this is your only real glass option. I like the X10 more and simply avoided caustic juices because of that. Protanks have an incredibly airy draw and are honestly kind of shit. But they're easy to use and your options are thick.

This tank uses the same atomizers linked with the X10.

I would not recommend any top coil / wicked pre-fab tank to fucking anyone. They're crap and taste like actual butt.

JUICE:
DON'T BUY FUCKING CHINESE JUICE. DON'T BUY FILIPINO JUICE. JUST BUY FROM THE US. SERIOUSLY. ALL JUICES LISTED BELOW ARE NON-CAUSTIC AND ARE SAFE IN PLASTIC TANKS.

1. FRUIT - VAPOR CHEF'S HONEY PEARRY - http://thevaporchef.com/products/honey-pearry
2. DESSERT - THE STANDARD'S CELL BLOCK 4 - http://elevated-vaping.myshopify.com/collections/the-standard/products/cell-block-four
3. BREAKFAST - VAPOR TRAIN'S CHOO CHOO CRUNCH - http://www.shopmvg.com/products/choo-choo-crunch
4. ESOTERIC - VELVET CLOUD'S MEWLEW'S MAGIC - http://www.velvetcloudvapor.com/collections/e-liquid-blends/products/mewlews-magic
5. IDON'TEVEN - SUICIDE BUNNY'S MOTHER'S MILK - http://skylinevapor.com/mothers-milk-by-suicide-bunny/

That last juice is just like, man, it grows on you. It starts off as this sort of "oh, vanilla in strawberry out" ok. But it's not like a candy strawberry or an absurd-smack-you-in-the-face vanilla. Honestly, if Cell Block 4 wasn't already my favorite vanilla, I could vape Mother's Milk all day. I can't actually vape CB4 ALL day.

Finally, this is the best chart in vaping:
(http://i.imgur.com/VhUxgmk.png)

All bullshit aside, rebuilding a Kayfun is easy. Hell, I just watched a 1 minute of a video on youtube and have insane microcoils on my iHybrid Pure right now on the first try. The nic high I'm riding from 10mg Pluid at the moment is stupid.

All the beginning shit is honestly sort of shit. Even with a $175 mod, $100 hybrid, $110 atty, wick, wire, batteries, and $22/per30ml bottles of juice, I've spent SUBSTANTIALLY less than smoking. In fact, about $600 less. So, yea.

To answer my own question which was not a joke question, this has become a hobby and there's private clubs, like those smoking a cigar clubs, popping up.  There's even one in London but not Philadelphia. Maybe I'll go see when I go back.  This is really getting sort of trendy. 

I agree with most of schild's recommendations.

For the Vamo, I think this: https://www.fasttech.com/products/1359402 (https://www.fasttech.com/products/1359402) is a better choice.  Nitecore charger and branded panasonic 18650 batteries.  I don't trust chinese batteries at all, in any way shape or form, or their generic chargers.  It also doesn't come with the shitty vivi nova tanks, but they're useless anyways.

I usually suggest Ego batteries, just because they're more compact, but most people end up with a Vamo anyways, so that's splitting hairs.

I'm not familiar with most of the juices you list, aside from honey peary, so I went to check them out.  WTF nothing smaller than 30ml from Elevated or Suicide Bunny?  I've had such bad experiences choosing flavors I really like, that I'm not sure I'm ready to plop down $22 for a flavor I may just give away.  I have nothing against people wanting to be more "high end", but even Vapor Chef does the 6ml bottles, and Alice in Vapeland has the "little of everything" sampler.

I think anyone who has access to a brick and mortar vape shop should just stop by and test a bunch for themselves.  Everytime I think I'll like a flavor, it tastes like ass.  The one's I don't expect, I fall in love with.

Alice in Vapeland and Vapor Chef are good, but like, not that good. I don't quite know how to explain it, but a subset of the higher-end juices is just vastly superior to those (and Velvet Cloud). Frankly, I wish I could buy 100ml bottles of The Standard line (as well as Choo Cho Crunch). The only reason Honey Pearry is on the list is its cheaper than Melon Medley - which is strictly superior and won't give you vaper's tongue.

I've gone through like 45ml of Cell Block 4 in the last 4 weeks. That's not even with it being my adv. I just hit like 3ml of it a day. Urgh, so good. The only Suicide Bunny juice I've had thus far is Mother's Milk. At first I was like "Eh, whatever." But it grew on me by the end of the tank (I try to give every juice a 3ml tank's worth of a try).

Edit: As for the VAMO recommendation, part of my problem with the VAMO is its already "big" for entry level (hence my MVP recommendation alongside it). If I were very very specific, I'd say get the VAMO, body only, get eFest or AW 18350 IMR batteries, and a Nitecore charger - all separately. I *never* use my VAMO in 18650 mode. I use my Nemesis in 18650 mode all the time though (with a kayfun its' about as tall as the VAMO in 18650). In 18650 mode, the VAMO is basically one of those little bats you used to get at baseball games.

So I have decided this WILL be my hobby although I barely understand what most of you lot are on about.  No worries.  I'm clever and you guys gave lots of info, especially Schild  .  No nicotine though.  I'm thinking maybe it will replace some of the extremely odd and compulsive behaviour I've been exhibiting for the last few years some of which is a little weird and not always safe.  If it works, this will be awesome.  Maybe it'll go so well I'll write a book on how harmless vaping can rid you of your obsessions, compulsions, saying the first thing that pops into your mind regardless of how inappropriate it might be and the odd urge to steal other peoples stuff.  (almost always give them back but it's embarrassing.)  When the 'urges' hit, I just pop one into my mouth and chill... right?  This will be bausome.

It's clearly a personal preference thing.  I ordered 6ml of the Choo Choo Crunch based on your recommendation, and it's definitely not my thing.  Meanwhile, I'm cranking through 6ml of Hobbes Blood everyday and loving it.  I may just be pickier than most, but I've tried 100s of flavors from everywhere, and there's only maybe a dozen that I can actually vape an entire tank full without swapping out.  I'm pretty terrible at choosing things based on what I *think* I'll like, so I've gone through a ton of the 5ml samplers from all over the place.

I mean, if you're not looking for Captain Crunch, Choo Choo Crunch is certainly going to be "Not Your Thing." But, if you like Hobbes' Blood, I can't help but recommend A-Train from Blueprint (which is also The Standard). I have both, but I'm going through A-Train faster.

Tark Vemada sent me some of his Reserve line today, specifically Old Gold, Matador, and Camelot. I've never liked any tobacco vapes, but he says I should give these a go. I still like tobacco as a flavor, just not off the stank of a cigarette - so we'll see how it goes. If you're wondering: http://www.modnworld.com/Artisan_Juices_s/1866.htm

FFS now I feel like a bowl of Captain Crunch cereal.  I don't even know if they make that anymore.

They do! We bought some recently.

It's a good thing I had to give up gluten or Opps all berries would have been the death of me.

I just got mine today.  I LOVE it!  No nicotine, but I think I can cut out my morning Xanax and maybe even one Prozac if I use it when I get up.  And with my coffee.  I have missed smoking tobacco for like a decade.  I hardly ever cheated but I still have always wanted a ciggie every minute of every day since I stopped.  It takes all my willpower to keep from starting again.  It's not the nicotine or even just the tobacco taste, I think, it's the smoking.  And this weird contraption is cool.  Once cannabis is legal here (probably never so I'll have to move) and in England (who knows?), it'll be even coolerand sexy and very very useful!  I wish they were smaller, though.

Thank you, Eric Schild, when I die you can have my stuff.

Yay! I don't need your stuff though! What did you order for yourself? And yea, it works as well as cigarettes for the addiction portion.

I bet you want my stuff.  I have the in-store promo stuff for the first 2 Zorks, Leather Goddess of Phobos, and some of the junk from the release of Centipede.  Garage sale.  Wish I knew where it all was.  Somewhere in Linda's cellar, I think.

Anyway, I got this Chinese thing for my first because I wasn't sure if I would like it.  I had a coupon and it was on sale.  It was this:


It works great.
 

I didn't buy anything else until I tried it and then I ordered two flavours from Halo, Kringle's Kurse because I love peppermint and this kind has no calories, and Longhorn because, you know... COWBOYS!  I also found that you can't always get what you want with no nicotine.  There's a shop not too far away from here, http://www.vaporphoxxe.com/, and I think I'll visit them at some point.  Just to see.  I think you can get soy candles there, too.  I love soy candles.

I ended up with a twitchy tummy last night.  I think I may have over-vaped my e-juice.  (not in a pervy way)

PG can cause twitchiness, mild nausea, and muscle cramps.  Goes away for most people after a week or two.

--Dave

I am trying to find out how long juice should last before I invest. For instance, how long does 30ml last under heavy usage?  I got people in local shops telling me different stuff about usage and cost and quality of liquids.  This thread has already been very useful, and has helped me avoid purchasing a bunch of cheap garbage equipment.  I am now hopeful that you all can help me with usage expectations.

I can! But I need to know what sort of tank you bought / are planning to buy. Genesis tanks go through juice a lot faster than, uh, anything, for example. Kayfuns I get about 6ml a day out of. Carto tanks @ 5ml do NOT burn through juice quickly. Getting through all 5 without chain vaping would be exhausting. Etc etc. Whatcha buying?

A calming hobby for me is knitting. It's like yoga for my brain somehow, and I get serious pleasure out of the visual/sensual of a beautiful yarn (like MadelineTosh). There are a zillion tutorial videos online, and the tools can be found cheaply (especially used off ebay and so on). If you're interested in learning, I'd be happy to help.

I only miss smoking sometimes (after quitting 18 years ago) and it's brand specific (Camel Filters) but you know what I really don't miss is having a monkey on my back. It's nice to not have to need anything ever (except air and food and water).

I'm confused about this whole ejuice thing. Does it satisfy smoking urges? Do people go from tobacco to ejuice with nicotine to ejuice without? How does it affect people in the room? My town has anti-smoking ordinances covering downtown, and some people want to add ecigs to that. Why would that be necessary?

Thanks, Schild, for that informative post even though I only read half of it and it made my eyes glaze over.

It somewhat satisfies the urge to smoke and it definitly removes the nicotine urge behind 80% of it. It also alleviates the oral fixation and need to fiddle that smoking is associated with.

As far as I know, there is little to no effect to bystanders, but you will want to do your own research. Its PG and VG, which are common ingredients in asthma inhalers. And a bit of nicotine which as a trace amounts of a carcinogen, but you probably inhale 5 times the amount of toxins just by wandering in traffic.

Also, your town is filled with hysterical asshats. Go to a town meeting and hose them down.

Well actually I haven't decided on a tank yet. I smoke less than a pack a week. Usually only on breaks at school which is like 10 to 12 cigarettes a week.  I am trying to figure out how much I am going to spend to mimic that usage maybe a little more. I could really use a skilled equipment suggestion based on my expected light to medium usage.

What has kind of made me waver is the cost of the juice.  The nice flavored stuff I have seen you guys post here looks expensive to me.  Also a concern I have is ending up vaping more than I actually smoke now, I tried out a friends kit and the nicotine buzz was pretty intense, although he said he vapes with juices that have the highest nicotine content.

Edit: Forgot to add, based on your post there I will likely lean in the direction of a Carto tank, provided there aren't any maintenance issues.

What's hilarious is that the same people who complain about tobacco don't complain about people smoking whacky tobacky, which smells worse to me than tobacco.

And yes, this town is dysfunction junction on so many levels.

I love the smell of wacky tobacky and not just because I'm a bit of a pothead.  I also like the smell of regular tobacco burning.  Wood, natural incense, etc.  What I don't like is the smell when it's on someone's breath or hair or clothing.  I don't need nicotine anymore so I use mine with 0 nicotine.  I love it.  I've been smoking something named "Sahara" which is rather nice.  A sort of dry tobacco.  The RY4 is lovely, too.  I'm trying to find something a bit more woodsy, though.  The e-juice seems to last me a really long time, too, so it's not too bad on the wallet. 

I have recently taken on aromatic teas because the one thing I do miss most about smoking is the organic sense of foliage being burnt. Namely, I actually miss the 'grounding' effect of smoke. I presume most people don't get this, but I don't care too much. The best tea for me is Lapsang tea. I get a pine smoked Lapsang from Remedy Teas in Seattle that smells like a campfire and just sooths my soul in a way that I have missed since quitting smoking.

Some of the more expensive juices I listed come in at around $0.75/ml. I can't speak to my own experience because I practically chainvape and it's on high end gear that can burn through liquid, but the girl had me fill a 5ml carto tank yesterday morning, she's halfway through now - a full day later. So, I guess that's about $2.25 in juice a day. I know for a fact I don't do $7.84 (price of what I smoked) in juice a day, but I might do like $4-$5. Genesis tanks are juice burners.

I just got a bottle of train choo choo crunch and it is delicious. I'm not so sold on the uncle junks belgianberry. It might need to seep or something. But that captain crunch flavor is amazing. I have a new daily good.

This makes total sense to me.  In fact, I look for the same sort teas.  I really like Green Hojicha  and Wuyi Oolong teas.  The Hojicha is really woodsy and if they made an e-juice from it, I'd so be there.  Some of these teas are really expensive.  I buy from The Republic of Tea because you can usually get a small sample size for a fiver.  I've never had trouble with the tea being too old, either, like some other tea place whose name I forgot. 

I've never had the belgianberry. My favorite Uncle Junk juice is Monica's Eyes.

Has anyone made their own yet?

You know. A smart person would make a website for ejuice receipes. And sell/link to suppliers for cash.

allthejuices.com
juicedb.com

Like a DIY website.  Not a review site, a recipe site.

Also I got my Genesis clone and VAMU v2 battery today. I threw the belgianberry in it and it still isn't that great, but my god, the clouds of smoke.  (Edit, I just figured out I wanted the airhole next to the coil, that makes it taste a bit better.)

I think I still need to get everything adjusted because the berry is giving me huge throat hits.

What atty clone did you get and how did you build it?

This one. https://www.fasttech.com/p/1449602 (https://www.fasttech.com/p/1449602)

I did a 3 coil wrap around the wick/mesh that came with it. Comes out to 1.6 Ohms. Figured that was good enough for a first try.

Ah yea, the i-atty. At the low end people seem to like it. In a month or so a guy I run a group with is doing a group buy on a Russian mod called the By-Ka. Also, have a Chel's Microstick coming in a month, will probably pick up a Kayfun 2.1 or Doc Dave mini micro for that. I wish I'd never gotten to play with high end gear. Thankfully, everything resells at full retail or more on the secondary market since no modder can keep up with demand,

Thankfully the low end stuff makes vapor too....

Absolutely agreed. Eventually Fasttech will get some of the 1:1 clones of the good stuff that's been floating around and I'll link to it. The i-atty isn't a complete knockoff of something amazing, so I have nothing to compare it against other than it's a "serviceable genesis atomizer."

Just got some toasted hojicha and wuyi oolong. I'm not too crazy about the Hojicha. Doesn't taste bad or anying, just not very exciting. The Oolong is ok too. A bit bitter if overbrewed.

I do wonder if it would be possible to boil down the tea to a near syrup and put that in nicotine juice and smoke that. Wonder how that would taste. Possibly like ass.

http://shop.vaperev.com/dolce-nero-te.html
http://www.litecigusa.net/The_BluePrint_Page_6_p/bluprint-page6.htm
http://elevated-vaping.myshopify.com/products/miss-white

I can only speak to the second one, Page 6, which is pretty good if a little sweet.

I'm thinking of trying the Dolce Nero Te, which is the first one.  If I do, I'll let you know how it is.  When one or some of you start really getting into making your own, I'll want to know EVERYTHING.  I know it'll happen and they'll probably be really good because some of you guys are so obsessive about things.  I mean, look at Sky.  He paints those little men and makes sure you can even see their teeny weeny eyeballs!  I'm also thinking of trying a liquorice one.  When I was in France some years ago, I bought a pack of this amazing tasting tobacco that was heavily flavoured with liquorice.  I know it's not uncommon as a flavouring in tobacco, but you usually can't really taste it much.  This French stuff was incredible.  I'm very torn about trying some of the sweet ones.  I haven't even tried the peppermint I bought yet.  I do know I hate menthol cigs.  My dad smoked them and even as a kid, I never stole his.  Everyone else was fair game.

There's a brand of cigarettes I got in Italy that I was never able to find again. I kept the box, somewhere in my storage unit. Anyway, yea, some cigarettes are more than amazing.

I would start making my own juice if I had access to a clean room. I might have a desk at my next place for vape shit (moving in 2 weeks). If I do, I MIGHT start doing small batches of very specific bizarre flavors. Don't know yet. I desperately want a biscuit w/ jam flavor.

A biscuit with jam!  That's so fucking adorable!  Srsly.  Apricot?

When I was very young, like 9 or something, my uncle used to come visit from Italy.  One time he brought cartons of cigarettes flavoured with whisky or something.  I stole two packs and hid in the woods and smoked until I threw up.  I did that for about a week until I was so sick my parents took me to the doctor.  Two days later I was back in the woods.  Finally got the hang of it, too.  That uncle bought me my first Fendi bag.  And my last.  They're obscenely beyond stupid expensive.  I could probably buy a car for what that stupid bag cost.  He used to stuff Genoa salami and a wheel of sharp provolone into his luggage, too, for my grandmother and she would make Baccalà for him.  He was a weird uncle and made her house smell like dried up fish for weeks.  He wore shiny Italian silk suits and when we went out to dinner he always forgot his wallet. 

Your uncle was a thief.

Vaping, yes, I do this now.  A lot.  Today I mixed my dry Turkish tobacco flavour with a bit of red hot cinnamon.  It was delish.  Try it.

Actually, that particular uncle was a chicken thief.  No lie.

I HAVE FOUND TIME TO MYSELF. I have rewrapped 4 atties (before moving onto custom usernames today - FUCKING FINALLY ARRRRRGH MY LIFE).

Anyway, I have a Taifun GT sitting on top of a Mirandus rocking a mesh wrap at .32AWG with a strip of 2.5mm Ekowool on top. This sits on a Mirandus mixed SS/Brass with an 18490 battery running at about 1.0Ω.

My Aqua sits on the Mirandus' slightly uglier half where the main tube is brass and top and bottom are SS. That is running 2 coils of .28AWG with 2 strips of Ekowool in each channel rocking about .56Ω.

My Kayfun sits on top of a Nemesis Kalafan running at about 1.2Ω.

My Dudenberg is on a Deus Mods Prism. Both of these things are very good and the Dudenberg is the highest quality genesis I have found for under $150.

I have a Diver by Atmistique coming in tomorrow for my Salt & Pepper Tank.

How did  get all these toys? I uh, yea, I bought a thing that I ended up trading for another thing and traded that into more things. Also I got sent some prototypes by a few modders. Have I spent any money? Not really, I'm up $700. Vaping is a weird culture.

I've been vaping for almost two and a half years at this point and have the original f13 thread to thank for getting started.  It gets better and better over time as the tech improves.  I've gone from having to constantly fiddle with the equipment to having a virtually maintenance free setup.

Currently I'm rocking a ZMAX mod with dual coil 2.5ohm cartomizers in pyrex tanks and couldn't be happier.  I make my own juice and go through a 30ml bottle every week with the device set to 10 watts of power.  I put in a new carto every 2 to 4 days.  For me, this is inexpensive and hassle free.

Over the years I spent a great deal of money trying lots of different juices.  Most of them I would tire of very quickly.  I discovered last year that making my own juice was the way to go.  Not only does it save a ridiculous amount of money, but also I was able to hone in on the perfect flavor that I never tire off.  It's also very easy to make using a free iPhone mixing app.

My daily vape is a homemade Strawberry Mango Lemonade 50/50 PG/VG at 18mg nic.  I keep a few other flavors around for some variety (blueberry lemonade, coffee with irish cream, chocolate tobacco) but always quickly switch back to my main flavor.

ProVari mod is on the way, super excited!

If this shit gets banned for whatever reason heads are gonna roll.

It turns out CO₂ extracted hash oil mixes into PG pretty easily. For those of you in medical/recreational mj states, of course.

Got a vial of Cell Block 4. It tastes like it's from the moldy shower of a cell block.

Something happened to the recent batches of CB4. I had the same experience with a new bottle, it tastes NOTHING like the bottles I got a few months back.

Got an Atmos for dry herbs.  I've been fiddling with different screens and the spring and everything but, so far, either the combustion happens too quickly or I don't get any draw at all.  I ordered a glass daisy screen to see if that works next.  I'm testing it with herbal smoking blends before I put anything too pricey in it.  It's allegedly really good for oils, wax and concentrates but that stuff is WAY out of my price range.  And I don't want total oblivion and comatocity.  That wasn't a word but it is now.  I made it.

This is TOO fun.  If I had money I'd invest in vaping but I'm pretty sure the government will make it un-fun soon enough. 

The gf gave up on trying to use her atmos(+?/rx?/something) for greenery, and using oil/wax/etc was way too strong, which is why I figured out how to make the oil into juice.

Because of this thread I no longer smoke. I ended up with a KangerTech Mini Protank 2, and a 1000 mAh Ego T Upgrade battery. I am pretty happy with it. It goes friendly on the juice usage and I don't have to charge it all that often. My favorite liquid so far is kind of a cinnamon and menthol sort of flavor that is amazingly refreshing in a holidays/Christmas sort of way.

Send me your recipe, please. 

I enjoy mixing a bit of cinnamon with a good strong tobacco flavour.  Yum.

So anyone find anything amazing lately? I noticed the lower nicotine level Choo Choo Crunch tastes worse than the higher nicotine level stuff... Which seems strange.

I just discovered Absinthe flavoured which I love to bits.  I can't seem to get the Atmos Raw to work properly with dry herbs.  I think I need to keep trying different screens until I find the right one.  Glass doesn't work at all so far.  I plan to mess with it again soon.  I prefer rolling my own dry herbs but it's mostly for my sister who sometimes smokes pedicularis.  Dunno why.  Does nothing for me.  Supposed to be psychoactive.  She usually uses a wooden pipe.  I hate wooden pipes.  I know my family sounds weird so shuddup.

Nicotine adds a pepper/bitterness to juice. Also, all these juices are made by hand and require a few days to settle, so if a juicemaker botches up, he may never even notice.

I'm making an absinthe juice with someone, but it's the most mildest hint of absinthe.

What source do you have for the absynth juice Signe? Also, what 'dry herbs' are we talking about. Is this a new code the kids are using these days?

I picked up the plain Absinthe e-juice cheap from Bootleg Vapors.  I wanted to see if the flavour is something that would be a good taste for vaping.  It is.  I haven't tried to make my that one myself yet, but I'm interested.  I fiddled with liquorice and elderberry (DON'T USE THE FLOWERS!) but it just wasn't right.  Would love to know what Eric is mixing up in what is probably a scary torture e-juice dungeon laboratory.  He should keep us up to date.  The dry herbs I was talking about for my sister is that pedicularis stuff.  My dry herbs are the sort the kids are talking about but usually use a different name.  I have a recipe to turn that into a juice and will experiment after the holiday and if/when I get enough money.  Making my own cinnamon, absinthe, kush and pedicularis juices are on my list of things to try.  My sister is great at extraction and I'm good with flavours.  We should be able to come up with yummy stuff.  I won't be shy about posting my recipes here if they're good.  (and legal)  And I'd LOVE to see what others are coming up with, too.  I've become very into all this for some strange reason.  It's addicting.  Like cigarettes.

I want to vape opium but I won't.  :)  Probably.

I think star anise would give you closer to a classic absinthe flavor. And the gf has the Atmos RX with the dry herb adapter. It doesn't burn very cleanly at best, packing it loosely helped, but it gunks up fast. Your sister should probably just get a glass bowl or bat.

She'll probably keep using her wooden pipe.  From what I understand the Atmos Raw works best with concentrates and possibly waxes.  All these are possible to experiment with at some point.  I see no reason the pedicularis can't be extracted and turned into something that will burn a bit steadier.  The dry combustion is so quick that I'm pretty sure it's wasteful.

mmmm The first versions of my juice will be done in a week or two. The first one is a morning/midday easy to vape thing that will come in 6mg and 12mg varieties and the other is a complex mess of bullshit that sounds horrible on paper but tastes amazing and will be 5mg/10mg. Kind of an evening juice sort of thing. That's the one with star anise in it.

Anyway, the sort of standard for anise flavors is Radiator Pluid (available here: http://www.vapingwatch.com/eliquid/pluid-30-ml-10mg.html - and in stock, which is rare). He uses shitty quality product, but the end result is relatively impressive. Don't use it in a plastic tank. Anise and citrus flavors will crack/destroy/render useless any sort of plastic / makrolon tank.

My juice is about 500x better than Radiator Pluid and we got a line on the closest thing to pharmaceutical grade 100mg nic we could. Pretty excited to have other people try this stuff. Signe, I'll grab an address to get some shipped to you when we finish up with it.

Wizard Labs?  Or Nude Nicotine?  Those seem to be the most reliable as far as quality goes for the 10%, so much so that a lot of others are just re-selling their stuff, repackaged and marked up.  Or someone else?  I did find a source for pure nicotine in small amounts, but there's barely any savings over buying 10% from one of those two (and pure nic is dangerous just to breathe the fumes from, a single drop on your skin can be an OD).

--Dave

EDIT: I'm considering a SmokTech SID, any opinions?  Any other decent VV models with wattage regulation for around $50?

I'd have to ask where the guy ended up ordering from. I'm not doing the actual brewing, decided to go with someone who has done exceptionally well for himself on the east coast (hundreds and hundreds of bottles a week good with nearly no spread outside of the eastern seaboard).

I'm about to get new gear, I've been on a SmokTech 18650 ePower (the Ego compatible version) for the last year or so, using Ego DCC's.  It's been a decent combo, I went nearly a year on the first one, recently had it go out (think I might have reversed a battery) and don't like not having a backup.  Things have moved on a lot in the last year, as Schild has chronicled, and I'm currently planning on some kind of Variable Voltage model, and I'm willing to try some tanks.

I'm currently debating between the Vamo V5 and the SmokTech SID.  They're equivalent in terms of features (RMS current regulation, control either wattage or voltage, display coil resistance, etc., I think they're probably running the same PCB inside).  Vamo V5 is of course very common and popular, but I've been happy with SmokTech for the last few years, through their first two generations of 18650's, and unless someobody raises a red flag I'll probably wind up with the SID.  Looks like either will take both Ego cartomizers and the common tanks (like the Kanger Protank "Glassomizer") without issues, and they're both around $50.

I'll keep mixing my own liquid from LorAnn oils and unflavored liquid (I'll probably step up the VG from 20% to 25-33%).  I think you guys are crazy to spend so much for pre-mixed flavored liquids.

Anyway, after 5 years, not counting the money I sank into my homebrew mods in the early days I've probably spent less on vaping than I would have in a single year of cigarettes, probably much less.  I'm just barely hitting the bottom of $230 for 2.5 liters of 24mg liquid I mixed myself 5 years ago, and $78 worth of flavoring (I can now get it for about $50/liter).  Since I switched to 18650's, I've probably spent about $150-200 a year on gear (batteries, chargers, rigs, and cartomizers).  Oh, and I've discovered I'm allergic to certain artificial flavors, another reason I won't be buying pre-mixed juice.

If you're still smoking, you need to ask yourself "Why?"  eCigs are through their early adopter phase and are offering some pretty mature tech that's easy to use, and there isn't really any social stigma (if anything, the biggest problem these days is smokers bitching about having to go outside while vapers happily puff away at their desks, restaurant tables, and movies).  Get your stamina, sense of taste, and a sizable chunk of your disposable income back, and switch over.

--Dave

Just as a followup, I did a bunch more research and then spent way too much money at FastTech on gear.  I'm getting 4 tanks, an X10, another ProTank variant called the RG500 that has an insanely large 5mL glass-wall tank, and two RBA's (a Genesis variant called the Kraken and an all-steel Kayfun variant called the Aqua).

RBA's (Rebuildable Atomizers) are the new hotness, essentially I'm getting them as a hedge against any future regulatory stupidity.  They require fiddling with parts most people don't want to mess with and twiddly detail work rewinding and testing, although you can buy pre-wound coils and wicks for literally pennies a piece that take care of the worst part of it.  The insane nicotine addicts are making "sub-ohm" rigs this way (pushing 10+ amps through coils of less than 1 ohm).  I settled on these two because they seemed like simple, elegant designs with a minimum of parts that would be hard to replace (the glass on the Kraken is just a simple tube, the only other limited lifespan parts are o-rings and screws you could pick up at Home Depot).  They also both have adjustable airflow that isn't dependent on an air path through the power rig (this can cause wierd compatibility problems where a particular combination of rig and tank won't let you draw air) and dual-coil support (it's pretty much mandatory for the Aqua).

The big divide in tanks is between top coil (Vivi Nova, Genesis) and bottom coil (Protank, Kayfun).  Bottom coil are more vulnerable to minor flooding and leakage in ordinary use, top-coil have to be kept vertical at all times or they will spill all over the place (you can lay a bottom coil on its side, with a top coil you're going to be mopping up juice).  There's also an older type called a DCT that is a tank wrapped around a cartomizer with holes in it, it's comparatively idiot-proof but the cartomizers are more expensive than cores and not as long-lasting, I didn't get any (I figure that if portability is a major factor, I can just use a cartomizer).  There are versions of tanks that do not have replaceable cores, but I didn't get any of those either (the lifespan of a cartomizer and the cost of a tank, doesn't seem like good deal).

What I'm getting are actually knockoffs, the original Kraken costs $140 and the Aqua is $175 (I paid $13 and $20, respectively).  I should add, Variable Voltage/Wattage power rigs are pretty much a necessity for these type of tanks, although if you want to go the sub-ohm route you need a mechanical rig (and a note from your cardiologist), you want to dial the power up until it starts tasting scorched, then back down about a watt from that.

There's also a new thing called "Hybrid" rigs where the RBA screws directly onto the mechanical mod, I plan on checking that out down the line (the Aqua will do it with Origins), and "Kick" modules that tack onto mechanicals to give them variable wattage control (most mechanicals now come with an extension ring for precisely that purpose, adds another 18-20mm to the battery compartment, the alternative is dropping down a battery size).

I am considering getting a "Hammer" mechanical, it mounts the 510 connection on the side and would be much more more "stealth", especially with a cartomizer and an 18350 battery.  Schild wasn't kidding about the size, the SID with the Aqua or the RG300 would be close to 10 inches long, the Hammer in that minimal configuration would be a T about 2 inches in each dimension.  I'll update the thread with more info once I actually get them (they're coming from Malaysia by regular mail, so it may take a while).

--Dave

Heh. Good luck with the clones. Apparently, most of them rust. Yay China.

Most VW mods won't fire a kayfun or kraken properly. And honestly, an unregulated mech mod is better for that stuff anyway unless you have a burning anecdotal reason to fuck with dna20 devices.

Edit: I suppose I can post more about the tech divide later. I love my aqua but the standard tank is too small.

Yeah, every indication is that they're using cheap steel rather than real stainless.  I couldn't begin to afford the genuine article, especially not knowing up front if I like it.  I expect to use the X10/RG500 most of the time, anyway, so I don't have to fiddle with the coils/wicks.  If I really do find I prefer dual-coil RBA's, then maybe I'll bite the bullet and buy one of the real deal, it's just a lot of money to spend on spec.  Ditto on the Hammer, $240 is a lot of money to drop for a backup "stealth" device.  Since all of this stuff is likely to be obsolete in another year or two, I'll roll the dice on cheap.  $40 on RBA's for an experiment that doesn't work out I can justify, although I think most of the people bitching about the tech rigs not firing RBA's are running low-resistance coils on cotton wicks.  I'm not trying to build a fog machine.

--Dave

Wouldn't call the hammer stealth. I actually won a real one. Comes in this coming Friday if everything goes well.

I intensely dislike dual coil and build my Kraken single coil. I love my Kraken, mostly these days I'm using a By-Ka and Taifun GT.

Compared to a SID or Vamo?  Or anything 18650?  I could easily conceal a Hammer in 18350 mode with a carto in my palm, admittedly I have large hands but it's about as stealth as "Big Batt" is going to get.  I could put together something flat-pack based that would be incredibly tiny in comparison while still giving good performance, but I don't want to dive down that rabbit hole again.

--Dave

If you really want to stealth vape efficiently with a decent product:
Microstick: http://mini-ecig.com/battery_blocks/MicroStick
Optional Extender: http://mini-ecig.com/battery_blocks/MicroStick_18500_extender
Kayfun Mini: http://shop.vaperev.com/rebuildables/svoemesto/kayfun-mini.html

aaaaaaand a kayfun mini nano kit from somewhere

A little note on mixing your own liquid: I'm mildly allergic to certain artificial flavors, I can eat or drink things made with them and have nothing more than a little tingle on my tongue or numbness in my throat, but vaping them can set off a coughing fit and mimic (or even trigger) bronchial pneumonia.  Since this includes stuff that is very popular for flavoring (like artificial vanilla) and because I'm a cheap bastard that thinks spending as much on liquid as a smoker does on cigarettes is insane, I mix my own.

This really isn't hard, you can buy base 10% liquid from Nude Nicotine or Wizard Labs, plus VG and PG, and mix it together yourself with no more than rubber gloves, plastic funnel, and a dinner fork for equipment.  I like to go a little light on the Vegetable Glycerin, both because it is the primary cause of the crust that determines the life of a coil, and because I tend to run higher resistance (and therefore colder) rigs than is the current fashion.  I also run high on the Nicotine because my cooler coils produce less fog.  So I got 250ml of 10% (in a PG solution), 250ml of VG, and 500 ml of PG.  You can change around the proportions to get your desired Nic and VG level, the math is left as an excercise for the reader.  Anyway, $45 got me enough for 1 liter of 25mg strength liquid, which should last me at least a year.

You put on your gloves and pour your 10% into a bowl, carefully.  You pour your VG into the jar the 10% came from, then into the bowl, then do the same with your PG (you don't really have to, but since the 10% is the expensive bit, I like to get it all out).  You stir it gently with a fork or wire wisk until you're sure it is well mixed, then use a funnel to pour it into your storage bottle(s).  I have a high-grade plastic 1 liter for that, the bottles everything was shipped in may not be good for long-term cold storage so be prepared.  Smoked glass lab carboys are ideal, but expensive.

I also have a 150ml squeeze bottle, generally I keep my main stock in the big bottle refrigerated, and the 150 ml I use to fill 30ml eyedroppers, which is when it gets flavored.  However, I went the last year without refrigerating the main stock (which was already over 3 years old), it didn't seem to have any effect on strength or flavor.

There are two basic ways to flavor: Adding liquid flavorings, generally LorAnn artificial flavors (which does mean watering down your juice and introducing a rust-inducing element), or steeping it in dehydrated flavor sources; fill a jar with dehydrated fruit/cloves/tobacco/pot-pourri, then drown that in juice and letting it sit for days to weeks and straining it to remove the solids.  I haven't actually done that, so do more research before trying it.

Everything else is just a matter of finding the flavors you like and don't make you choke, then playing around with proportions.  AVOID CINNAMON OIL.  Stuff will kill you.  In general, actual oils should be used extremely sparingly as they clog atomizers, and citrus flavors are generally hard on equipment (the distinctive tang comes from citric acid).  I tend to use 3-7% fruity base like watermelon, raspberry, peach or blueberry, then add single drops of something with a stronger aftertaste like wintergreen, clove, or amaretto.  When you're experimenting you'll want to make smaller amounts (like 5-10ml) so that you don't feel bad about flushing something that doesn't work.  In general, a 'drop' is about 1/10th of a ml, but if you want to get really exact you'll need needle-less syringes from the drugstore.

LorAnn flavors are generally available from stores that specialize in candy-making equipment, but can also be ordered directly from the company website ($75 minimum for free shipping).  I went almost 5 years on my first $78 order plus some dram-sized bottles from a restaurant supply store for the more potent stuff.

Handling consumption-grade liquid doesn't need much preparation besides paper towels and great care about wiping your eyes, although rubber gloves and eye protection are never a bad idea, especially if cleaning large spills.  Keep away from children, pets, and idiots, clean spills immediately, and slap big poison warnings on everything containing nicotine.  I am not a doctor, pharmacist, chemical engineer, or any other kind of expert, and take no responsibility for anything that happens if you follow my advice.  If you're not comfortable handling poison so directly, buy your liquid pre-mixed and consider the markup a safety tax.

--Dave

EDIT: I should add, any time you get nicotine solution on your skin you should wash it off promptly, as it can soak in through there.  My basic point is that although nicotine is a potent poison, in low percentages it's not inherently more dangerous than bug spray or rat baits (organic gardeners use it as an insecticide, in fact it was agricultural workers in China that discovered that standing in the fog was a substitute for smoking), reasonable caution and care are sufficient.

LorAnn Oils flavorings can be ordered through Amazon. When they have the 12 packs in stock prime, it's awfully cheap, otherwise $3-$5 for 3.7ml bottles

$1.40 for drams (3.74ml), $4.50-6.00 for 1 Fl Oz, and $14.50 to $17 for 4 oz bottles from LorAnn directly (http://shop.lorannoils.com/templates/group_ProductSelect.aspx?GroupGuid=7).  I'd avoid buying anything from Amazon unless it's being sold or fulfilled by Amazon, "counterfeit food flavors" is an actual thing.  And you want the "LorAnn Oils" or "Super Strength Flavors" for candy-making, not the Bakery Emulsions (which are much weaker) or the natural flavor extracts (which are all over the place in terms of potency and more likely to include something equipment-killing).

--Dave

EDIT: 1 dram is enough for one, maybe two 30ml batches of most flavors, okay for testing a flavor out but if you know you're going to be using it a lot you'll want the bigger bottles.  I just ordered 5 4oz bottles, a 1 ounce bottle, and 4 dram bottles (you'll need the eyedropper caps for anything potent enough you're deliberately ordering drams), that will probably leave me set for another 5-6 years.

I got a kayfun lite clone from Fasttech. The adjustable airflow, the wicking method and the weight of it are all pretty darn amazing. The throat hits from it took some getting used to. It also changes the flavor profile of stuff a bit (Just like any setup will.)

Also Schild, thanks for mentioning that the higher nicotine stuff tastes peppery. Now all I can taste in everything is peppers.

I wound up ordering a Hammer clone from FastTech, the version with silver-plated contacts they just listed.  The Hammer is unique, the tube for the 18350 main body portion is mounted inside a square housing, this whole portion of the tube is "hot" (connected to the positive pin of the battery) and there's a plastic mounting jacket to insulate it from the rest of the mod (which is at ground when the switch is closed, which is normal).  The square outer profile makes it the only mechanical mod you can set on a table with the 510 connection pointed straight up (and therefore not leaking from top-coil tanks) and have it be stable, rather than balanced precariously on the firing button (and yes, most of them are heavy enough that this will have it firing constantly, unless you have and set a locking ring to 'safe' the button).

The design does have some weak points, the "top cap" (which is actually on the side for the Hammer) with the 510 connection is "floating pin", you get the center pin into contact with the hot battery tube by pushing it in with the center contact of your atomizer (this means that some tanks just won't work, and Protanks may or may not depending completely on the vagaries of the dimensions of that screw in that batch of cores).  Since this is a critical element of the current path, it causes...issues, each and every time you remove the atomizer.  It also means that fluid leaking through the bottom of your atomizer can wind up inside the housing where it can accelerate corrosion, and which is nearly impossible to dis-assemble and clean.  The top cap on the Hammer is not compatible with Ego connections, it has *no* allowance for airflow, and it puts all of the strain of the connection directly onto the 510 connector (it's not unusual for these to snap right off if not snugged up to an Ego connector and a "beauty ring", and the Hammer's right-angle design makes this even worse).  

IOW, in the effort to make a sleek, flush, pretty connector, they made something that sucks in every functional way.  The bottom cap isn't quite as bad, but again a design goal of "sleek" means it has a locking ring that is difficult to grab and turn, and is not reverse thread (so in screwing it out to lock the button, you can wind up unscrewing the bottom cap, then unlocking it when you're trying to screw the cap back down, and so on).  The button is also smaller than most, and since you really have to put some pressure on to make a good connection in a mechanical, this can be hard on your fingers or thumb.

However, the same person who developed the Hammer also designed the "Astro" mod, a traditional tube mod with compatible threading, and this was in turn copied for the "Chi You" and "King" mods...and all of these have been cloned and are for sale from FastTech.  These have top-caps with a "Telescoping" center pin (the battery side of the pin screws in and out of the housing, allowing you to fine-tune the length), an Ego-compatible connector with flush "beauty ring", and support for airflow through the connector (they even have airflow control, you can screw a ring up and down to set the tightness of the draw).  They also have a bottom cap with a larger firing button and a reverse-threaded locking ring.

These caps are much larger and chunkier than the original Hammer caps, but they will fit onto the Hammer seamlessly and give a lot of advantages (the telescoping center pin requires finicky precision to get set properly on a Hammer, but once it is set that connection never has to be made again, which is much better than the corrosion-inviting and constantly flaking floating pin).  I got the "Liberty" version of the King clone, because it's also polished stainless steel with silver-plated contacts and there are no logos on the parts I could move to the Hammer (the Statue of Liberty laser etching is on the main body, everything else is completely blank).  As a bonus I get extension rings compatible with the Hammer so that I can run it in 18500 or 18650 mode (or even 18650 with a Kick module), and I can put the Hammer's caps onto the King body for yet another backup device.  Total cost $48 (genuine article retail price: $470).

--Dave

I come back to this thread and I end up feeling inadequate for being happy with my simple $60 kit.

Don't be.  The main goal is to quit smoking, and there's nothing wrong with picking out a set of gear that is adequate for that purpose and calling it good.  After I quit messing with homebrew, that's essentially what I did for the last 4 years.  Each winter I'd catch up with the state of ecigs, pick out a new rig, and just run with that until the next year.  It's just that this year, there was a lot more to catch up with, and a lot of things that were impractical (in my judgement) matured into usable widgets.

What I've picked out this time was a combination of my normal new yearly rig, and a 'hedge' mechanical set that I can have for years and keep using no matter what regulatory restrictions might appear.  Schild is much more hardcore than I am, but I definitely understand the temptation to geek out on the gear and juice.  It's just too damned expensive, if he hadn't pointed me at FastTech (which is kind of a Grand Bazarre of clone gear) I would have picked out the SID and X10 and gone back to autopilot for another year.  I spent probably an extra $100-120 because of that (for stuff where the authentic article would have cost close to a grand).

It's like Golf or PC gaming, you can spend endless hours and ridiculous amounts of money on it as a hobby, you can get nearly the same effective results just going through a regular upgrade cycle, or you can buy a set of adequate gear and coast on that for years.  Your $60 kit is the equivalent of a $500 prebuilt Dell 'gaming PC', your geek friends may look down on you but it gets the job done.

--Dave

EDIT: In this metaphor, I'm the guy who upgrades his mobo, CPU and video card every tax refund, and Schild is the guy with 3 gaming computers, one so bleeding edge it has parts that aren't even in stores yet, rebuilds one of them every week, and has enough parts lying around to build another 10 adequate systems.

Absolutely.  I'm still using my first $60 kit (with two tanks!) and it's one of my favs.  In fact, I'm using it right now all filled up with Huntsman and a touch of Mocha Java, both from Heathers Heavenly Vapes.  I like several of their flavours, in particular Crackberry (it's Blueberry but it's not sweet) and Pirate Booty.  I usually get it in 60/40.  I recommend their purity blends and you can get 100% organic, too.  They're PG free so you can pick your strength and the fruity ones don't taste like candy.  So far, everyone else makes flavours I like better than my own!  :(

The truth of the matter is that an e cig is a heated coil with a wick of some sort. It can be as gadgety as you want, but that's the long and the short of it. Its a bit like coffee. You can have a Mr. Coffee drip machine from KMart for $25 or you can have a $5k Italian espresso machine.

I have one with no coil at all.  I'm not entirely sure yet what to do with it.  It came with a sample of different sorts.  Unfortunately the sample pack didn't come with destructions so I might have to use the Google.

It's all about quitting smoking. Don't feel inadequate.

Shhhhhhhh.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39720/vapor/MIRANDUS/weeeeee.png)

Out of curiosity, what do those type of rigs provide that makes them appealing to some people? I only ask because at my local shop there is another customer that tries to talk me into something that produces more vapor (the dude practically lives there). My argument with him is that your lungs can only provide so much absorption and that the big huge cloud of exhaled vapor is just a waste of perfectly good juice.

I mean, if those more expensive kits produce cleaner, cooler, tastier hits, then I might look into something nicer. However, I would be disinterested in making a purchase just to make bigger clouds.

It's called "Cloud Chasing", and you're pretty much right.  It all comes down to watts and temperature, at around 8-10 watts of 18-24mg you're in the same range as cigarettes for nicotine delivery (the state of the art hit that with the Ego and the Dual Coil Cartomizer).  More watts, more vapor, lower resistance means more residual heat in that vapor (compared to the same wattage at higher resistance).  Some flavors tolerate heat better than others, on the flip side higher temperature can do a better job of boiling the flavor (because my flavors are water-based, I actually have to occasionally 'blow out' accumulated flavor).

Carapella has some food flavorings that are actually PG based, as I understand it these are much better in high-power rigs, and don't have the accumulation problem.

Some of the more extreme rigs are hitting 40+ watts, which is just insane.  In comparison, the 801's and 901's me and Nerf were using back in the day produced 4 watts, the original 510's were 6 watts.

--Dave

EDIT: If the stuff in that picture is all authentic, that's about 2 grand worth of stuff just in what he's got sitting around ready to go.  Which totally makes me feel better about what I've spent.

EDIT2: On the issue of cooler and tastier, I prefer cooler vapor with less 'throat hit' myself.  Where the current fashion is for low resistance coils, I prefer higher resistance in parallel.  A single 1.5 ohm coil and two 3.0 ohm coils will take the same amount of power and produce roughly the same amount of vapor, but the LR single coil will be running at a much higher temperature and the vapor will be hotter.  I bought pre-wound 2.4 ohm coils for my RBA's, because hand-wrapping anything more than 1.5 is nearly impossible, and I don't want more than 12 watts worth of vapor.

Having used every Silica atty except the Rose, and probably 50-60% of the gennies out there. And divers, and all that shit.

1. Kayfun Lite Plus is easiest to setup.
2. The Taifun GT is the best atty on the market. And a monstrous pain in the ass to build right.

Yeah, I decided against the Taifun GT because it was just too damned finicky compared to the Kraken (which is supposed to be one of the easiest dual-coil RBA's to build) and has this wierd polycarb/steel tank that would be impossible to replace.

You ever get that Hammer?  I've read that you can actually build it backwards (swap the caps) and make it a tube mod with a side-mounted switch.  I'll probably do that if I can, the reason I always avoided tube mods is that there's no non-awkward way to hold them (edit: 1-handed).

--Dave

I build my Kraken as single coil. The GT is finicky, but i've been using the same coil for _weeks_. So once you get a good one, whoooo. Hammers haven't been delivered yet. This industry is abysmally goddamn slow. Except China. They're fast.

I dunno... It's pretty amazing all the choices a user has. I'd hate to be starting out now. I'd be totally confused. It's like picking a motherboard and cpu.

Every time I get a little money, I sock away a wee bit for hobbies or fun.  I'm pretty poor so it's never very much.  I saw an awesome looking setup online not long ago but it was really pricey.  I had just enough cash socked away for the kit, but I reckoned if I hold out and save another few months, I can indulge my other hobby... ink.  I love my vaping hobby but it can't compare to my tattoo hobby.  :)  Now, don't forget, I don't smoke anymore but I vape because I like it so much.  I use 0 nic.  It's all about the flavour for me and those ever awesome throat hits.  What it's done is to stop my strong craving for cigs which I continued to have although it's been ages since I smoked tobacco.  The tattoo hobby makes me feel incredible in a completely different way.  It's more intense and it's there forever.  I want to see how many I can get before I die.   :vv:  Once reefer is legal here, and maybe cheaper because I SO qualify for medical kush, I'll probably vape that, too.  It's my future hobby.  Every one should have a future hobby.

If you really want to maximize your throat hit and flavor, you want one of these (https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10005100/1602900-igo-w3-style-rebuildable-dripping-atomizer), a quad-coil dripping atomizer.  You'll need an 18650 mechanical mod with an IMR battery and silver (or gold) contacts, and the patience to reload the silly thing after every other puff.  Put any nicotine in that and you're a heart attack waiting to happen, and pretty impatient about it.

--Dave

Edit: I've figured out what the issue with RBA's and VV/Kicks is: The VV/VW circuit has a 4 amp/15 watt limit.  You run the numbers on that, and you would think that you could fire atomizers down to around 1 ohm, but there's a catch.  The circuit works by first boosting the voltage to 6v, then pulsing it to reduce the effective voltage.  The 4 amp limit applies to the 6v working voltage, if your resistance in less than 1.5 ohms, it's going to hit the current limit and the circuit will cut out.  I'll be fine with my X10 and RG500, and my pre-wound coils will be fine in the RBA's in single-coil.  But my DCC's are iffy (they're right at 1.5), and dual-coil RBA will only work on the mechanical.

I'm back on the ecigs and running a Tesla w/ a protank 3 right now, and it has a side mounted switch.  It's not amaaaaazing, but I dig the variable power w/ 18650s it's pretty rare that I'll have to swap batteries throughout the day.  I haven't bought any cigs this year, so at ~$8 a day for american spirits I've already saved $150+ after buying juice and whatnot.  Yay.

Yes, along with a shitload of stuff in one giant shipment.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39720/vapor/VAPEMAIL/shipment_18_toomuchstuff.png)

The Hammer is stupid and costs too much but I'm glad I didn't pay for it. The Templar, on the other hand, is amazing.

I debated whether to share this link, just because it would be so easy to drop a lot of money there.  But in the end, you're grownups and if you drop the rent on a shiny toy, it's not my fault.  Some of these really show how, now that the technical engineering is a solved problem, mechanical mods are moving towards more aesthetic drivien designs that don't look like the bastard offspring of a light saber and a pipe bomb:

Hyperion Vape Shop (http://shop.hyperionvape.com/Mods_c2.htm).

The Rook is my favorite.

--Dave (or do, but really pretty light sabers and pipe bombs)

Kinda hate you right now. 

I take it you're not getting that tattoo?

--Dave

Dave, Hyperion Vape shop got a sample of a juice called Nightfall from a company from Teleos recently. If you visit there a lot, ask to try it. They have the sample in 5mg.

Great, now they look like -gourmet- lightsabers. Seriously, how anyone's dropping 200 bucks on what's a fancy maglight with a voltage regulator is beyond me. Unless the art on it is gorgeous or something. Then I can dig it, but seriously folks, its a tube with technology from the 1860s doing basic electrical stuff.

Well, I can't afford anything at that place right now.  I'm still dropping my change into my tattoo money bucket.  (okay, it's not a bucket, it's really just a Talenti Ice Cream container.)

There are still questions of quality of materials and machining, and the aesthetics are worth something as well.  That being said, something like the Rook or the Flip from that site are the kind of thing you buy to show off to other people, you don't need them any more than you need plexiglass windows and LED's on your PC, or custom paint on your car.

I'm almost certainly not going to buy the Rook, I'm a cheap bastard at heart who built his own PC's in beige boxes until 2005 (by then there were prettier cases that didn't cost significantly more).  But I can still appreciate the quality of the design.  Most tube mods are easily cloned because they are just threaded metal tubes with laser etching, and $200 is an insane amount to charge for that.

--Dave

Going two in a row to ask a question: How do you know when a tank coil needs replaced?  With old-school atomizers and cartos, the draw got tighter and the vapor thinner until you were basically getting nothing, but I've been using the same core in my X10 for nearly two weeks and I don't notice any difference.  Do the cores just last longer?

--Dave

X10s are the chinese tanks that can use Protank Coils right?

Yeah, look like the Smoktech glass DCT's, but with protank bottom coil cores and polycarb tanks.  You can use Evod or protank coils in them.  I've been using the one that came with it, and don't notice any real difference (maybe a bit less vapor, but way more than I would from a carto I had been using for the same length of time).

My other tanks didn't make it out before Lunar New Year (China is closed for that each year), so I've been using it exclusively.  Just wondering how I will know it's time to replace the coil.

--Dave

When I used tanks like that I would force myself to change the coil once a week. That shit can get gunked up. It's possible you're simply using a high pg juice with no major gunky flavors in it so you're simply not having gunk issues. Or your taste buds are shot and its fucking gross.

Moral: Change the coil.

I'll go ahead and give it a shot.  I'm on 75% PG with less than 10% flavoring (5-7% mostly, and those flavors are comparatively low-residue).  I'm also running pretty cool (6 watts on a 2.2 ohm coil), it may simply not be charring/crusting the way that the others did with a fresh battery.  I've got 25 spare cores, I had planned on those lasting a year (edit: but at roughly $0.80 each, it wouldn't bother me to change once a week).

--Dave

Edit2: Swapped for a new core, draw's a little easier, just enough more vapor to notice, flavor is a little more clear.  Not a major change, I think that once every two weeks is going to work.

I would do once a week. I don't know what you're vaping when it gets gunked up, even if it's only a little bit.

(http://i.imgur.com/O07H2CV.jpg)

I don't get it.

Neither here nor there but my juice brand is blowing up.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean but duck and cover.

Finally finished buying everything from FastTech and other places, my ecig collection is essentially finished for the next couple of years.  Thought I'd post a lineup:

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52904699/IMG103.jpg)

Left to right: R80 ePipe with Silencer and REM tank, Hammer with Kick 2 and DBox Puritank, Liberty King with iClear30 (no regulation), Smoktech SID with X10, Vamo V5 with iClear30.  All stainless steel except the SID, which is aluminum.

The iClear is a top-dual-coil tank, and the Vamo with one on the right is the one I actually use 90% of the time.  I like a cool vape with a lot of oomph, and single-coil doesn't really do it for me.  By the time I've dialed up the power enough to feel the nicotine (6-7 watts), a single coil has lost all flavor and is on the border of scorched.  The iClear I can turn up to 10 watts and get lots of cool vapor.  The R80 is a 'party piece', something I bring to show off, I actually have a couple of disposable tanks with built-in LED's for it.  As you can tell, I'm firmly on the regulated side of the "Tech Divide", I like a consistent vape rather than delivery and flavor that changes as the battery discharges.  All told, I've spent about $500 in the last 4 months (the same I would have on cigarettes in the same time), but that includes enough cores, liquid, and flavor to last two years, as well as the two RBA's with enough coils to last 10+ (pre-wound coils are so cheap, I went ahead and bought 400).

--Dave

I have considered buying 1000+ Aspire BDC cartridges for my Billet Box for when the inevitable other shoe drops. I should probably go ahead and do that.

Yeah, the New York Times had an article specifically about nicotine liquids titled "Poison By The Barrel".  The surprising part was how comparatively safe it was in spite of the fear-mongering: 1 documented death (a suicide) and about 1400 hospitalizations since 2009.  Ignoring smoking-created diseases and just looking at poisonings (hundreds of toddlers go to the hospital for chewing cigarette filters every year) and fires I would bet that it was actually more dangerous if the same number of people had stayed smokers.

But I've been expecting that sooner or later the tobacco industry would jump on-board with systems based on disposable cartomizers (like the current Blu cigs), as that would be modererately safer and fits into the pre-existing model for distribution and taxes.  I have vague plans to have stockpiled a lifetime supply by the time they start seriously pushing to control nicotine, about 4-5 liters of 10% should do it (roughly $600-750 at current prices).

--Dave

People have poisoned themselves with those nicotine patches a lot.  If there's a way to do something stupid with something that's supposed to help you, people will always find it.  My last purchase was for a Innokin SVD Kit, which I'm looking forward to fooling around with.  Vapor Beast is my new fav place to buy stuff.  I LOVE their nutty tobacco juice.  Lots of stuff for DIY, too.  I also ordered some Patron from E-Juice Pub.  They have some awesome sounding flavours.  I don't drink but I love the taste of some alcohol.  I also picked up a glass dome for herb and heavy wax from them.  I was never able to get the more pricey set up I had to work properly.  It wasted my herb! 

Has anyone used wax?  This is the best hobby ever.

This is what I've been working on:
http://www.teleosjuice.com/

To buy it online (there's also a list of retail stores on the link above):
http://www.giantvapes.com/teleos/
http://www.giantvapes.com/teleos-cloud-science/

Very cool, but price point and 30 ml quantity is prohibitive. If it were possible to order 3x10 ml sample packs for the price of one 30 ml, or maybe even a hair more, I'd be in.

Alas, no, but if you've never ordered form there, I believe there's a 10% off coupon.

VAPEONTV10 I believe.

I personally think juice is a little pricey, but don't blame the juice makers.

I agree with this gentleman. I've been burned by too many juices to go all in.

Which flavour did you get?  Although the coupon died yesterday, I might try the Nightfall when I get low on the absinthe one I have.  I'm a total sucker for Absinthe/Anise stuff.  And melon.  I love melon flavours in ecigs. 

Since I'm here, just to let people who use dry or wax, that the globe attachment works pretty good although the bowl is a bit small.  As for the Atmos Raw, I still can't get it to work right.  I've tried pulsing the battery and it still tends to combust.  Any of you dry herb people having any luck with the Atmos or any other one that doesn't use globe attachments?  Special filter, maybe?

Been seeing articles on the long-term effects of vaping recently.  Looks like the biggest concern is the topical deposition of nicotine residue from unabsorbed compound on exhalation.  Have you guys come across anything?   I'm trying to stay on top of this for my students.

English please? It sounds like you're saying that vapor deposits nicotine in a residual form when you exhale and that sticks to someplace and that's bad, but I'm guessing.

When you inhale, not all of the nicotine from your juice gets absorbed.  The remainder is exhaled with the vapor and will deposit on any surface in your vacinity.  This could become problemmatic in public places where people touch the surfaces. Could be a bigger issue in homes with small children. 

So long as you carefully monitor your nicotine levels in the juice, this shouldn't be an issue.  I can see idiots ruining vaping for responsible users though.

Welp, according to this study http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/14/18/abstract, second hand exposure to the other bad stuff is negligible. However, there's no mention of nicotine in that study. This study http://ntr.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/12/10/ntr.ntt203.short suggests that although there is nicotine in an exhalation, its 10 times less than that of tobacco smoke exhalation. To quote the relevant passage:


One thing to look at is studies that are measuring second hand exposure through use of a smoke machine that does not take into account the user's absorption of nictone and is just measuring pure vape plumes pre-inhalation. That's not a measurement of anything, because of-fucking-course there's nicotine in that shit, that's the point.

Articles but not studies. There are no studies. The difference between vapor from an ecig and vapor from a fog machine at a club is the presence of nicotine.

The amount of nicotine film second-hand from vapor is likely behind negligible. PROPER tests need to be run, but I'd wager you get more nicotine from eating 2 potatoes than you do putting your hands on the desk of a vapor.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199308053290619

It's worth studying, but it seems extremely unlikely that there would be enough residual nicotine in redeposited PG/VG to have any risk, especially compared to redeposited tar from cigarette smoke.  Gaseous nicotine doesn't last long and doesn't redeposit (that's why 100% PG doesn't work well), so the risk would come from droplets of vapor that managed to stick to surfaces.  These are a thing, under the right conditions, but even in a heavy vaping environment it's barely detectable to eye/touch.

If the studies were done honestly, it would be interesting.  But my bet is that they will be done by ASH or some other tobacco industry front and they'll use 25% nic/75% VG, in a chamber with refrigerated stainless steel walls.

--Dave

I wasn't placing any value judgements folks.  I was looking for input. 

Found this in a technical report released by scientists at Drexel.

Yes, basically its the best nicotine delivery system imaginable at this point. And nicotine is awesome.

Nebu, you linked a file straight from your desktop computer, which, you'll thank your lucky stars if you think about it, isn't possible :)

I had a long day and pasted the wrong link.  Sorry.  I'll leave it linkless since the conclusion makes the point.

For Lakov:

I smoked a ton.  More than a pack a day while I was working in artist management.  I was up early and out late and constantly having to travel and go to shows.  It got so bad that I couldn't breathe in the morning until I had a cig.  After I left that sort of work, I tried everything to stop and couldn't.  I was finally able to do it well before I started vaping but the craving never went away.  I slipped up more than a few times.  I haven't craved cigs since I started vaping, though.  It's very much of a relief for me and people are now safer because I don't want to smash them in the face when they light up anymore.

Yeah, I probably would prefer cigs but this helps a lot and I haven't slipped up since I started.  Of course, if they invented a cucumber melon flavoured cig, harmful or not, I would absolutely slip up.  So, you're probably right or maybe wrong but I don't know because I've confused myself with this post. 

Also, the Constantine show has that cool Albino guy in it, too.  He has the most beautiful face.  Especially when he dyes his hair orange and goes all goth-like.

Surely you have got awesome collection.. I am just introduced to the world of vaping so my collection is pretty small..

It's not about the collection. It's about not smoking. :)

Just how many different tanks and batteries do you have? :why_so_serious:

That I use? One tank. But I have 3 of them (Taifun GT). Mods? Hrm. 2 Templars, and an AWE. Wife uses a Chi with a Taifun GT. We're basically a dedicated Taifun GT household at this point. Even my dripper is a Taifun with the Dripper conversion.

I have a bunch of other shit I'm selling but it's certainly not part of some collection.

It's kinda about the collection, too. 

You aren't accusing Schild of turning vaping into some kind of silly hobby surely?

If you changed the username and dropped this post into the Star Citizen thread, I would have no idea it wasn't on topic.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39720/ANIMATED%20GIFS/NypnvV3.gif)

He's not offering you 'the opportunity' to buy a Taifun GT or one of the Templars for eventual use in-game for $300.  That's a dead giveaway.

Arise, and greet your new corporate overlords:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/07/us-health-cigarettes-insight-idUSKBN0FC0AT20140707 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/07/us-health-cigarettes-insight-idUSKBN0FC0AT20140707)

As usual, they bury the real lede: Other tobacco companies have joined Lorillard:


The FDA is funding 48 different studies into the safety of ecigarettes, which will doubtless find that vaping itself is not dangerous, but that non-cartomizer methods involving the handling of nicotine solution can be dangerous.  Going to take a few years for the regulations to come in, but the clock is now ticking.

--Dave

All it'll take is some infant chugging a bottle of 24mg ejuice to get the 'for teh children!111" hand wringing started in full force.

Old news is old. FDA will probably find cartomizer the least safe if the studies are even REMOTELY in-depth. In addition, all the big tobacco companies have been joining forces since at least this time last year.

Worst thing that happens: Juice gets separated from Nicotine and you mix them together. Mods are called flash lights. Atomizers get no name change. There's no way to patrol metal like that which does absolutely nothing on its own.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39720/VAPOR/VAPEMAIL/shipment_28_blackoak1.png)

I just got this absurd thing in, it's huge.

needs banana for scale

No shit.

It's beautiful.

I picked up a taifun on my last fasttech buying spree.  I'm confused why it isn't leaking all over the place, but it doesn't. It makes just the right amount of smoke, but I think I need to find the right juice for it. It makes my Choo Choo Crunch vanilla tones way too big. It also dries my throat out like I am just starting vaping.

How did you build it?

Microcoil and cotton. I'll try eccowool next.  What's your preferred method?

7 wrap microcoil (.28 AWG) around tightly rolled SS200 or 500/400 mesh with a strip of ekowool sitting on top.

There's THIS (http://vaping.com/news/vaping-conference-scheduled-in-vegas) happening in September.  You should go, Schildy.

That sounds awfully boring. I'll be going to ECC (Ontario, CA - we have a booth), Vape Summit (Houston), Vaper's Exhibit (Austin), and Vape Blast (San Antonio).

That's more than enough for me in a 90 day period.

Tell us about it after and remember to sign all the petitions even though they're probably more useful as TP.

So, I was going to hang out with Mahrin Skel when he was in Austin last but we were wrapping up something we'd been working on since uh, I guess February. Anyway, if you live in Ohio, Kentucky, New York or New Jersey, my juice is in Altsmoke.

Which, for us, is a pretty big fucking deal.

Congratulations schild! I've wondered why you don't start your own vaping store. You obviously know enough to do it right.

Hoboken is the closest to me.  HOBOKEN!  Why can't I buy some online?  Anyway, don't forget to write about all this stuff more often.  Do you know that Kentucky is one of the most corrupt states in the US?  I would have never guessed.  It's so pretty there what with the blue grass and pretty horses.  Anyway, congrats!  Are you going to try and make this your "thing"?  You know, for a living and all that? 

Yesterday I was at a tattoo parlour (not the one I use) and a woman there was using a bizarre looking contraption that I don't think I've ever seen before outside of maybe science fiction films.  It was like some heavy duty vaping thing.  It looked dangerous.  A friend of hers has a vape shop and she got it in barter for some ink and couldn't tell me anything about it, not even the name.  She didn't try very hard.  She was sort of a bitch.  She did, however, give me his card.  Hopefully some time next week I'll get up there and post a picture of this strange vaping weapon. 

http://www.teleosjuice.com/locations/
http://www.teleosjuice.com/buy-online/

Tell me what to buy!

I can't tell you what to buy! You have to buy based on your own preferences!

In other news, if you're going to ECC, I'll be at Booth #336

I dig everything I've tried from Teleos, but if you're gonna just try one, based on knowing zero about what you like to vape, I'd say Daybreak.

If you like tobacco, Eight Bells.
If you like banana, Daybreak or Dusk.
If you like weird shit, Nightfall.

Edit: Cloud Science stuff is probably too thick for your atomizers.

So, I picked up an absolute haul of shit at ECC (some big LA convention thing). Other juicemakers are putting out some pretty great shit.

Top of the list would be "Moondust" from Witcher's Brew, which I believe will be on Giant Vapes shortly. It's crazy, complex and utterly delicious. It's a flavor I wish we had made. Next would be "Gritz" from D-Squared. It's a melony creamy brown sugary thing that is simply divine. #Hashtag from them is also super good. It's a blueberry piecrust affair. G2 has a new line coming out called Vapeture. The standout flavor is White Bull. It tastes like banana pudding from Golden Corral / Insert Other Shitty American Buffet Here. Though, I'll toot my own horn and say "Delta" from our Cloud Science line stole the show. I don't typically pat myself on the back for things but Delta is out of control.

TL;DR:
1. "Moondust" from Witcher's Brew
2. "Gritz" from D-Squared
3. "White Bull" from G2/Vapeture
Special Guest: "Delta" from Cloud Science/Teleos

Arise!

So, I'm due for another round of kit. Well, not really, I still have plenty of stuff, but there's been a lot of progress in the last year:

High-power regulated gear is now common, with cheap knockoffs doing things that was beyond even the highest-end custom stuff a year ago.  50W brick designs and 35-40W tubes are very cheap, and there are a lot of things bringing in various aesthetic measures (such as real engraving and wooden veneers/enclosures). There's stuff out claiming 100+ watt output, but although the circuitry might be capable, you're not getting more than 40 watts out of each 18650 (some of them do have dual cells, a few have flatpacks). Being able to charge from a USB cable is pretty normal on brick/puck designs and there are a few tubes that do it as well.

With these new high wattage regulated mods, you're no longer forced to go mechanical if you want to go for low resistance cloud chasing. I'm still finding that 10-12 watts is the limit of how much vapor I actually want, so I probably won't mess with the really high power stuff. I'm figuring one more tube model, a double-cell brick, and some kind of mini-stick puck, plus another batch of iClear30's and cores for the same.  Maybe one or two mechanicals just because they're pretty.

With the tobacco companies now split, a lot of the push for legal action has fallen by the wayside (no new e-cig bans, and most of the ones in place aren't being enforced, you can still get away with vaping on the plane as long as you're a little discrete), although it is likely that the FTC is going to regulate to death anything but pre-packaged cig-alikes. But although that will be very bad news for the vape shops that have sprung up all over, direct importing is probably going to continue.  Still open to question is if and how they will regulated e-liquid, I'm accelerating my plans to get a few gallons of 10% concentrate into my freezer.

--Dave

Cheap shit has gotten so good I dumped all my mech shit and only have some nice boxes. I exclusively use the Aspire Atlantis for atties (have 11 of them), and a single lone Diablo Behemoth from a bizarre Finnish chap named Teemu. Also the box I'm using is Finnish from a guy named Hannu (Garage of Creation Styx).

Basically, my whole kit is provided by League of Legends characters at this point.

I just don't see any point in dropping the strength down 1-4mg so I can iron-lung and pump out 100% VG clouds at 30+ watts.  At 25mg (25% VG) I get enough from a couple of fully absorbed puffs to equal a smoke break (which makes it easy to sidestep the ban on my campus), and a full iClear30 will last me all day (and a fully charged cell will last two).

There's a 26650 VW rig I'm looking at just because it would literally last a week, but it would probably be like holding a hand grenade.

--Dave

I don't vape 100% VG. Atlantis couldn't wick it anyway. And iClears are trash made of questionable material. Lots of shit is. I get what you're saying, but I'll be at 0mg by the end of 2015 and only still vape because I work in the industry. The point is to quit smoking, not replace it. 25mg. Jesus.

So what would be the current recommendation for vaping 25% VG liguid? The gf is currently using a chicom knockoff ego-E battery/carts. It works okay, but tends to leak.

It's hard to keep up from outside the hobby.

Despite the cost (coils get pricey, I made a giant wholesale order for them, heh), I recommend the Atlantis Aspire to fucking everybody now. Shove that bitch on an Aspire CF SubOhm battery or an IPV3 at 30 watts and you're good to go. It's seriously the best atty available right now, it just requires a certain setup. Tomorrow I'll post more about it.

I'm using the Aspire Mini Nautilus and I'm quite happy. How is the Atlantis better?

No, the point was to replace it. For me, anyway. I like nicotine, I like that "ZING!" when the surge hits my brain and the whole world just clicks into focus. It's pure brain candy.

Actually puffing is just overhead, flavor is to cover the bitterness of nicotine, vaping itself is a far superior alternative to the smell and constant bronchitis of burning plant material. Yeah, I'm an addict, so what?

--Dave

Have they developed pure concentrated nicotine you can shoot straight into your arm yet?

There are patches and gum but somehow that just doesn't do it.  25mg is way too much for me, 8mg is on the high end and still does what I want.

I am to. But 25mg is the result of your atomizer being an inefficient piece of dogshit. The Atlantis is so goddamn good at vaporizing nicotine that 3mg is enough for me these days.

I forgot to post links to the atlantis shit today, forgot. Might do it later. Need to dig up somewhere that offers the CF SubOhm tubes at or below retail.

If you're happy with it, stick with it. The Atlantis is superior from every direction though - vapor, nic dispersal, flavor, blah blah. Literally everything. It's probably the best atomizer ever made for mass consumption.

Yes, has the sideffect of death though.

Ehh, I may look at some Vivi Nova based BDC designs, but really, I settled on 25mg when I had no options but the old style atomizers and it took that strength to equal the nicotine delivery of cigarettes. Now, I just find it convenient and predictable, I don't need more than a couple of puffs every half an hour or so unless I am really needing to concentrate, and I don't have to imitate a teapot when I do need to charge up.

I just don't want to have to constantly fiddle with the bits. Right now it's easy to keep two filled tanks and swap when I want a different flavor, and I change out cores every couple of weeks or whenever the flavor turns, whichever comes first.  I've built my RBA's just to know how, but the idea of doing it every week just holds no appeal.

As it stands, I can grab my gear and go, it all fits into a repurposed ammo belt pouch and I'm good for a few weeks. Packing all the little bits and bobs plus tools for RBA just to pop out for a weekend doesn't appeal.

--Dave

I'm also due for new kit.  I'm going to try out that Atlantis one.  Thanks!

Also... repurposed ammo belt pouch!  What an awesome idea!

One of these (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A57BRBE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1), which apparently are no longer available in black. I was looking for something because a regulated 18650 tube mod is too big and heavy for a lanyard, which is what I had used before. Everything explicitly marketed as an e-cig carrier is crap, generally 20 bucks for cheap pleather. I started looking at flashlight holsters, and the "people who bought the Cree X1 Flashlight Holster also purchased...." links led me deep into militia/mercenary wishlist territory. But once I started looking at that kind of thing, I realized that an M4/M16 ammo pouch was perfect for my needs and both better and cheaper than anything explicitly designed for e-cigs.

I can stick a spare battery and an extra tank into the pistol mag section, and then put a couple of 20ml dropper bottles and a single-cell charger along with the Vamo V5 or the SID into the main portion. Tuck a couple of spare coils in there somewhere, and I'm set for a couple of weeks or more. Most of the time I just carry the rig and a single spare tank.

This one would probably work as well (http://www.amazon.com/Condor-Single-Stacker-Mag-Pouch/dp/B00AELX61A/ref=sr_1_6?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1420073804&sr=1-6&keywords=m4+mag+pouch+open+top), although I'd probably remove the elastic from the front section.

--Dave

Ya, I wonder the looks I'd get at the mall with the thing strapped to my pants.

Really, none. Most people don't recognize it for what it is, it's just another odd-looking bit of belt paraphernalia. Only time I've been asked about it, it was by a guy who recognized the e-cig in it and wanted to know where I'd found a holster for it. Turned out he was in the Army and it was a forehead-slap moment for him, he'd never thought of using an ammo pouch that way.

Without an actual ammo clip in it, it doesn't look like anything dangerous.

--Dave

I quit smoking in Feb 14 and started vaping, went to my doctor in June and she asked if I still was smoking, she's been trying to get me to quit since Ive known her.  Told her I quit in Feb but was vaping and from that I got a very surprising "that's great!".  My look made her expand on that comment with something like "Patching, gum, or vaping are all the same to me, any are better then smoking".  Saw her again this month,  told her I was still vaping and the basic reply was "Keep doing that if it keeps a cigarette out of your  mouth".  At this point I'm down to 3mg, been on that for 2 months and its working for me.  I guess I can say I achieved my 2014 resolution to quit smoking.   ;D

Congrats, Shatter!  I don't usually carry my kit with me unless I'm going on a long-ish road trip.  I haven't tried vaping on a plane yet... has anyone?  I usually don't even put it in my carry on.  I wonder what they would if I did?  Must try. 

Don't try it on a plane.

I think most hospitals banned it too.

If it keeps you from smoking real cigs great. Nicotine is nicotine, your going to mess with your health with it, but when I see the idiot Jenny advertising it, it repulses me even more. But I calm down and remember not all of you who do vaping are assholes, but just don't push it.

MahrinSkel, you ought to check out the local Army/Navy surplus stores for the an older 3 magazine M-16 pouch (when you say ammo pouch this is drilled into my head). They are cheap. M-16 3 Mag Pouch (http://www.amazon.com/Mil-Tec-Magazine-Pouch-LC2-Olive/dp/B005MYDE5M/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1420147249&sr=8-16&keywords=3+magazine+pouch+m-16) It might not be tall enough though...

The BAR magazine belt would be pretty cool looking to have too, not sure if it is tall enough.

Don't say things like this in a vacuum, especially when you're a medical health professional. When you do things like that, you're propagating myth furthering the problem.

Show me how you're going to "mess your health with it."

Nicotine is mildly toxic, but every indication is that by itself it is less dangerous than, say, daily alcohol use. It can compound other conditions, especially when it comes to high blood pressure and heart conditions, on the other hand it has also been shown to have positive effects on conditions like dementia/Alzheimer's.

Compared to the many negative effects of smoking, nicotine by itself is nothing. It's more likely that the stuff used for flavoring will turn out to have negative consequences, or that nickel/chromium will outgas from the coils, or the chemicals used manufacturing them will turn out to be nasty even in trace amounts.  Nicotine itself has been studied a *lot*, and by itself has been shown to have very little problem.

Compared to nothing at all, there may turn out to be a comparatively minor health risk. Compared to smoking....

Anyway, I've vaped in hospitals and on planes, as long as you're not blowing clouds nobody cares.

--Dave

Sure, nicotine will increase your blood pressure, decrease the elastic capacity of your arteries, increase your heart rate, cause dependency issues, constricts your peripheral vascular system (which can increase your risk of peripheral vascular disease).

That said, I'm not saying it is going to kill you if you do it every now and then, but like anything, too much can cause problems. I'm sure Nebu (since he is a chemist and a doctor) can expand on it on the cellular level if we want to discuss that, but I'm just saying it isn't great and it isn't all bad.

Most disease process is a combination of factors, vaping is something you can control, so how much and how often can effect you. Plus the two commercials are repulsive to me (the one with Jenny McCarthy since she is an anti-vaccination and an idiot, and the dude selling e-cigs blue or something just strikes me as a smug asshole).

Enjoy it, if you like it great, just be respectful to others.

Having said "must try", I don't use nicotine at all anymore. 

All I know is that if I wasn't vaping, I'd be smoking, and that would certainly be a lot worse for me. "Second hand vapor" isn't a thing, you would have to be nearly kissing someone to actually get any of the nicotine into your system. Nicotine doesn't redeposit after it turns gaseous (that's why 100% PG mixes don't work), vaping doesn't leave residual smells (it can leave a very small amount of Vegetable Glycerin film on surfaces, but there won't be enough nicotine left in it to notice), and in general it's about as benign a habit as far as bystanders are concerned as singing along with your iPod.

And that's if you're blowing clouds, with even a minimal amount of discretion they won't even notice.

If there are health issues discovered they're probably going to be both very minor compared to smoking, and mostly the product of poor manufacturing practices (impure sources for liquids, chemical contamination of coils, etc.). Compared to what smoking did to my health, the worst I have gotten from vaping was leg cramps (from the PG early on) and some heart racing/palpitations when I had a tank leak in my pocket and soak my thigh with juice.

--Dave

I think he means other people shouldn't have to endure our second hand anythings.  When I smoked I was still always mindful of other people... my mother banged that into my head when a kid.  Having said that, I truly believe that my dog's second hand breath has knocked years off my lifespan.   :ye_gods:  I'll probably wait for an airline that opens a vaping class section.  Wouldn't that be fun!  I've noticed that people who vape love to chat about it.

Which online retailer would be the most reliable to order an aspire atlantis and sub ohm battery from?

Giant Vapes. I think the current coupon is bestcustomersever

Should work, if not I'll find another one.

Thanks. They had everything I was looking for.

They're slowly becoming the Amazon of Vaping. The guy who runs it is awesome and so are his employees. Had dinner with them last September and was legitimately upset he didn't make it to Houston in December. He's basically one of us, complete with awkwardly scheduled D&D group and elitist taste in obscure games.

Thank you, Aspire.  Thank you, Giant Vapes.  Thank you, Schild.  Got my stuff the other day.  Love it. 

I wish more juices started at 3mg instead of 6mg.  I would try more blends.  Heavily flavoured ones are okay in 0mg but I like the tobacco flavoured ones with a teeny bit of nicotine.  It gives it a nice little bite.

This Atlantis is pretty fucking awesome. Thanks for recommending it Schild.

Not a problem. My apologies for how much juice it goes through.

Also, never burn the coils. The taste will never leave and they are ruined unless you replace the wick yourself - which is totally not worth doing. I have... some experience with fucking up the coils.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39720/VAPOR/JUICE_SHELF/01102015_rotation.png)

I know nothing about vaping, but I saw this article in the paper in case anyone is interested: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/19/opinion/will-the-fda-kill-off-e-cigs.html

The biggest barrier top a sensible, non-overkill approach to regulating ecigs is that the tobacco companies would love overkill.  Not only would it slow the rate at which their old business model would erode (they are about 99% responsible for the FUD that has reduced public confidence in ecigs) but they would be well positioned to dominate a marketplace where it cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to bring a new product to market.

--Dave

Not to get political, but this whole industry is going to affect politicians in VA, SC, NC, and GA in a big way.  That's a lot of GOP folks that will have to change their handouts to farmers/corps.  

Yes, big tobacco and tobacco states are the most unhealthy thing about E-Cigs.

Decent article.

Meanwhile in Washington state....There's a 95% tax being considered by the governor:


Bold emphasis mine.

That's the standard issue bill that's being given to governments by Big Tobacco, likely Philip Morris. Texas just got hit with the same bullshit.

Edit: However, Texas hasn't legalized weed. Your governor is a double sack of shit for that.

Not that I doubt you, but can you provide me with a source for that 'Big Tobacco' standard issue bill?

It's a matter of timing and similarities. The same sort of bill showed up in Virginia and Texas in about 2 weeks time. Texas' was put up just last week or so. Almost identical. The banning of online sales is a notable fingerprint of Big Tobacco. Stifling distribution chains is not something the government would put at the forefront of their own ideas. It's purely a commercial concept. (Also, I'm pretty sure Philip Morris came out in support of it in VA and TX, but I'm not going digging for that).

You don't cadmium or formaldehyde in your food, e-juice, moisturisers, pet food. baby formula, cosmetics, jock itch spray, etc.?  Don't buy anything you put in, on or near your body from China or from a company that gets their ingredients from China.

I'm pretty pissed the the NEJM posted such a not in-depth study of ecigs today. A woefully worthless study that is only going to hurt. Does Big Tobacco have a hand in NEJM? I'd like to think not.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc1413069

What's your concern with the science?  Do you believe that a more thorough study will show something different with regard to higher voltage vaporization of samples containing glycols? 

Journals have been publishing stuff like this for as long as there have been journals.  They're usually put out as notes.

The guy behind it is a chemist and civil engineer that built his career on a theory that "freebase nicotine" (nicotine that was not bound up in more complex molecules) was uniquely addictive, and that tobacco companies were adding it to cigarettes to make them more addictive. His results showing unbound nicotine in cigarettes turned out to be completely unreproducible (even he couldn't do it when he ran the experiment again with observers), he then proceeded to prove that the flavorings used in some tobacco products were the same as those used in candy (no duh), and this proved that tobacco companies were targeting children (adults apparently don't like things that taste good).

Ecigs are like a perfect storm of everything he's been bullshitting about all of his life, since all of their nicotine is "freebase" and they often use candy flavoring products.  So he devised an experiment that proves that if you vaporize organic liquids at several thousand degrees, you can produce formaldehyde (again, *duh*).  Of course, you'll also thrash your throat with a single puff of liquid that "scorched", which is why nobody actually does that.

In other news, drinking lye is a bad idea.

There is a need for some serious scientific investigation of the potential hazards of vaping.  This is not it.

--Dave

That it's not fucking science and NEJM should have higher goddamn standards. That's my concern.

Of course it's not.  I read 100's of notes like this every week and know that it's nothing more than someone staking territory.  It's business as usual for this journal.  All of us that read it know this.  


You're knee-jerking a bit hard, even for you.  A guy submits paragraph of stuff we already know and NEJM prints it.  Business as usual.  It's a clinical rag that clinicians read.  You don't go to NEJM for hard science.  That's what the specialty area journals are for.

My knee-jerking is in response to the fact a shitload of news outlets are reporting it as truth, fucking up public perception. My knee-jerk reaction isn't 1/10000000th of what the governments will be to such bullshit.

I'm going to make you an honorary scientist.  You finally showed passion for something we've all been dealing with for our entire careers.   

Yeah, NEJM is seen as *the* scientific journal of record for medicine by most of the media, so his high-school level experiment proving that well-established chemistry still works will be taken as an authoritative proof that ecigs cause cancer by many outlets.  Of course, you can also produce formaldehyde by charbroiling a steak, or even by overcooking eggs.  What the media is taking away from this meaningless "note" is "ecigs are 15 times more carcinogenic than cigarettes!"

--Dave

Can scientists be sued for public outrage, distortion of facts, and conspiracy? If so, this guy just became vaping's public enemy #1.

This is nothing compared to what tobacco is going to launch to save its hide.  Perception > facts, remember?

I have my new kit and some extra stuffs and I want to taste all, or maybe just some, of your flavours, Schild.  Tell me the names.  If you've mentioned them before, sorry, I must have forgot.  This thread has become too long (more than a page) to search for something that may or may not be there.  So just tell me.

Urgh if I had freely avilable shit Id just send it to you. If you're patient ill get a package out to you.  If you want to blow a pile of cash:

http://www.giantvapes.com/teleos/

Id recommend waiting. Juice adds up quick. I wish there were more people that vape in Austin from f13. I just put 3 liters of juice I'll never vape into a box but it probably won't ship well.

I can wait a bit.  If I get low (I have a ton I'm not crazy about which doesn't count) I might pick up something.  Nightfall and Eight Bells sound especially nice.  I like that you have some with low amounts of nic.  I've been using El Toro quite a bit lately.  It's pretty yummy.  My sister recently gave me an awesome oil made from black poplar.  It smells heavenly.  Every time I use it on my hands, I want to smoke it. 

I'm so glad you decided to do this for a business.  Let's take down the FDA!  Viva la thingy!

So, my wifes nephew has taken up vaping. I know he's smoked before, but didn't have a habit so essentially he took up vaping. I'm not sure if its good or bad. Its unlikely he would have been able to afford cigarettes being unemployed/unemployable. UK cigarettes are now £9.50/$14.60 for 20 btw.

I never tried vaping, despite 20 years of smoking. I went from 10 a day>can't smoke due to 2 month long chest/throat infection and cough>X-Rays>worry>all clear>not smoked for 3 years now.

The  Shityourpants Method. Not one mentioned to often either. Better than gum, patches, hypnotism, books and vapes ;)

Still smells good when i walk past a smoker though, not always, but sometimes I'm like hmm that's nice. Although smokers themselves stink.

You have to be careful with oils. They often are not very soluble in PG/VG, and even when they are they tend to get left behind and gum up the coils. Not to mention that just because it smells good, doesn't mean it will taste good (ever eat rose petals?).

I use some oils for "grace notes" in my mixes, but generally as single drops into 30mL of solution.

--Dave

Most people who vape can't tolerate the smell of cigarettes after vaping for a while. Most people who quit cold turkey have cravings. It's strange.

(Signe & Mahrin) As to oils: no, don't. I wouldn't even put one drop in 30ml.

Really the only 'oil' I use is clove oil, and other than the fact that I have to toss the core after, it seems to work fine. I use some other really strong flavors as single drops, like amaretto and wintergreen, and have the same issue: If I don't change the coils, they stick around halfway through the next batch.

Finally settled on my next set of gear, went with a Vamo V6, which is just a slightly updated V5 (20W max, better display and firmware) and a ZNA 50 (kind of a minimalist fistpack, single 18500 or 18650 with the electronics next to the tube instead of above it). Thought about an E-LVT (silicone outer case that would tolerate drops better) and a Kamry 200 (200W beast with three 18650's), but they're both pretty big. I went with the V6 because it's a known quantity and the ZNA because it's a big enough power jump for my needs in a more compact form factor (93mm to the Vamo's 140mm).

There's some really great rigs with polymer batteries available, including a few that are 2 inches square and less than 1 thick, but the new restrictions on shipping batteries mean waiting a month or more for them to arrive by boat if you order direct.

--Dave

How much money are you spending on all that Chinese shit?

$26 for the V6, $70 for the ZNA. I'm getting stainless steel models, so it costs a bit more than if they were aluminum, but I like the durability. Last round, the aluminum SID got bent up in a couple of months while the SS V5 is still going. E-LTV would have been about $45, the Kamry 200 about $90.

Easy for you to sneer at my knockoffs, how much of your collection was free?

--Dave

Edit: I don't feel too jealous, though. Most of the vapers I see at my school are using those cheap plastic "vape pens", or Ego variants. Which they paid as much or more for as my V6. They see me using the Hammer with a kick, or the e-pipe, and they literally can't figure out what the hell it is. Only seen one that had even a VW version of an Aspire Ego clone, it cost him $50.

I'm also moving ahead with my plans to stockpile juice, I now have everything I need for the next three years of mixed, and a few 250ml jars of 10% in PG base (most stable form for long-term storage). At about one year per liter of 2.5%, I figure I need around 5 liters of concentrate in the freezer. I could get it all at once for about $600, however I am a poor but honest college freshman, I just add another jar when I have $30 to spare.

wut

I was asking how much you were spending on Chinese crap because there's better ways to spend money on Chinese crap than VAMOs and Kamrys. But ok, nevermind. No advice for you.

Also, Aspire doesn't really clone. All those ego shits come from the same place. I can get ego batteries that say Teleos made for pennies on the dollar and sell them as Teleos Egos. Ain't a clone.

ANYWAY, for everyone else:

This is the best battery/mod on the market: https://www.eleafus.com/istick-50w.html

Period. If you're jonesing for some stylish clone shit go over to Fasttech and get the G-Sensor thing from SXK: https://www.fasttech.com/products/3032/10011515/2108900

They're kinda janky, but they do the job and look decent if you don't get a shit one.

Atty wise:
Horizon Arctic
Aspire Atlantis
eLeaf Melo

If you want a battery and atty all in one: Joyetech eGo One 2200/XL or whatever the bigger one is called (it's still tiny).

Those are your only options. Every other item on the market is trash.

And if you don't mind spending a little bit of coin on something awesome, my recommendations are as follows:

Garage of Creation Styx: http://shop.garageofcreation.com/product/106/styx-sx350-mod

The guy who makes this is so rad, I put my booth at Vape Summit Las Vegas next to his. He'll have more in stock in a few weeks/a month. Also, the Euro is in the goddamn toilet. When this thing came out it was well over $350. He's one of the few modders left that doesn't price in USD, bless his drunk as fuck heart.

He also makes one of the best drippers on the market: http://shop.garageofcreation.com/product/74/h-dripper

The actual best dripper on the market right now though, is the Team Overdose OD dripper: http://www.vapingcraze.com/Team-OverDose-Dripper-p/team-overdose-dripper.htm

Followed by this: http://www.intaste.de/en/origen-mods-by-norbert-origen-dripper-v3-rda.html

Best Genesis style (but use cotton) is the Origenny V2: http://www.intaste.de/en/origen-genesis-v2.html

Best Kayfun style atty is the Kanger Subtank Mini (specifically that one) - using the rebuildable head.

Best overall atties are all that new gen chinese shit in the previous post.

Edit: Also, this is my favorite person in vaping: https://instagram.com/blakevapes/

I seriously considered the 4400mAH iStick (it was one of the "awesome polymer" models I was talking about) but decided against it because it's a fixed battery I'd have to wait over a month for (although I may still get the mini 1050mAH model for stealth situations) and I didn't want to pay twice as much for a US seller. And my final choice was between the Zero and the ZNA, I went for the ZNA because it had a thinner form factor than the usual fistpack (and some have reported issues with the Zeroes from FastTech).

I mentioned the Kamry mostly because it (and the other 100W+ models) is just so damned insane. I've built my RBA's for quad coil and tried high-power cloud chasing, even setting aside the issue of refilling ten times a day, I just don't need that much vapor. Especially not in a college environment where they technically have a no-vaping policy. 10-12 watts off a dual 4ohm coil works just fine for me, and with 25 mg strength I only need to hit it every 15 minutes or so. My batteries last two days and a 3ml tank most of one, and I just don't enjoy constantly fiddling with the gear.

--Dave

Edit: And that Aspire VW actually looked more like my old E-Power 18650, but it had a fixed battery like an Ego, so it was essentially just an oversized variable Ego.

Edit2: This is the E-LVT I am still considering, big for a single 18650, but the silicone outer shell makes it the most "droppable" mod available right now.

https://www.fasttech.com/products/3032/10007702/1905603-e-lvt-2-0-7-30w-variable-wattage-apv-mod

I've been using rebuildables for about a year now. I got a kanger subtank a month or two ago. I have not used my taifun or Kayfun since.

New generation Chinese shit crushed the Kayfun and Taifun market.

Arctic Horizon is probably the best of the bunch w/ the Atlantis a VERY close second. Subtank is the bottom of the list for me, but the rebuildable head on the Mini is the best of its kind.

Right now I'm a little pissed at the market because the public is simply not educated on how to drive all this new shit and there's too much of a rift in the battery segment. I wish people would dump all the old shit in favor of the eGo One at the lowest end and only go up from there. Everyone would be better off for it.

Get away from the west coast and Texas, it's worse that that. People in the Midwest are barely catching up to the Ego style, most of them think they're ahead of the curve if they're using the disposable plastic vape-pens (that they're paying $20 for). Straight up Ego clones for $40, if the shop even has anything better it's marked up 500%+ and inside a sealed case. Vamo V5 starter kits for $150, iClear 30's for $18, no-name juice at $15 for 30ml.

If somebody manages to establish a brand for strip mall vape shops that sell decent stuff at only a 300% markup, they could make money hand over fist with franchising.

--Dave

Anyone have any recommendations/opinions on temperature control and nickel wire?   

Ive been running a kanger sub tank mini with occ nickel coils on a m80 pro for about 3 weeks now and wouldnt trade the tank for anything temp mode on the m80 is a bit flawed but still works fine.Never a dry hit love it.

Yea, don't do it. Nickel wire makes everything taste like cigarette butts. Shit sucks.

I have an Aspire Atlantis, and an Atlantis Sub Ohm Battery. I have not ever had a better vaping experience than this combination. That includes mods and all kinds of custom drip set ups.

That setup is arguably perfect for almost everyone. I personally prefer the vape an sx350 driven mod gives the Atlantis, but it's marginal (SX350s have better battery management and power delivery than whatever the shit is in a CF Sub Ohm).

I'm enjoying an Origenny on my Wapari right now, but literally right next to it is a Silo Beast (Beyondvape.com's kinda high-end answer to the Atlantis - uses Atlantis coils) on a Styx (SX350 thing).

I respect your experience. However, I have to answer to my wife when it comes to my budget for vaping, so that's why my opinion is what it is.

I am on record at many vape expos saying that if the Atlantis and CF Sub Ohm had been the first thing that came out of China for vaping, that the industry would not be nearly as "inventive" as it is now, as that setup is as good as what most people call "high end."

Certainly better than a Kayfun on a fucking tube.

If you find yourself with about $280 kicking about, I think getting an SX-Mini M-Class and a Silo Beast w/ Nano tank is probably the "best" you'll get til technology shifts again.

New best kit on the market is the Kanger Subox. It's not even funny how good it is. They nailed it. I don't typically tell people to shop at Fast Tech but when I do it's because their price is $20-$30 less than everyone else:

https://www.fasttech.com/product/2385501-authentic-kanger-subox-mini-black-starter-kit

Is the item pictured at the link what you hold in your mouth? It looks cumbersone and ridiculous.

*This question will very likely reveal that I know nothing about vaping.*

You could post this on any internet forum and it would be funny.

I uh

huh

It's like the smallest electronic-chip driven mod on the market. You must have carny-small hands if you think that's cumbersome looking.

It's the part you hold in your hand, it contains the battery and the electronics that regulate the current. You screw your atomizing components of choice (it comes with one of the latest RBA/replaceable core tanks) onto that, which in turn holds a 'tip', which is the part you put in your mouth.

'Cig-alike' models are considered 'starters', what you use when you're worried that holding a battery/tank rig to your face will make people look at you funny. Then you realize that batteries big enough to pass for a cigarette have a power capacity of about an hour's use, and something that looks like a cigarette is actually going to attract more attention when used inside, so you move onto something better.

If you want a recap of the current state of rigs, it's been a year or two since we did one, and probably worthwhile. Or maybe a new thread since this one is about six months past the declared date.  Schild is now a big cheese in commercial vaping suppliers, maybe he can give us a new overview.

--Dave

I suppose we could retire this thread.

Since fucking EVERYTHING has changed.

LOL

Naw, for real, I mean just today my company was just voted Vape Summit's Best eJuice for 2015 by actual human beings.

So, yayy.

Where do I browse to, to purchase your ejuice.

http://www.giantvapes.com/teleos/

Send me a crunch sample and if I like it I'll buy 5 vials.   :drill:

Phrasing? Or are we not doing that any more?

I like my kanger subtank. I like this even more. The vapor is colder somehow even at higher wattage. The airflow is amazing.

Yea. The new coils, being vertical, are vastly superior and closer to the Atlantis.

Ill start a new thread when I get home from ECC in Pamona this coming week.

ACK!  Since I broke my wrist, I find I can't fiddle with my Atlantis innards.  I'm using some common and not very satisfying now.  I am sad.

I bet if you got some needle-nose pliers you could probably manage without much applied force.

If I knew how to replicate Halo's Turkish flavor, I'd be set.

I'm pretty much a slave to this company. And since they're from Jersey, that's probably not good in the longrun.

State of Mass Market Vaping, September 2015 (Links provided are basically the result of just knowing some stores, I don't care where you shop, but definitely shop at Giant Vapes whenever possible):

Best Mod - IPV D2: http://www.beyondvape.com/store/all-ecigs-mods-c-10_59/pioneer4u-75w-ipv-d2-temp-control-p-2989.html
Use this battery - https://www.imrbatteries.com/aosibo-18650-2600mah-60a-flat-top-battery/

Atty for Savory Flavors - Kanger Subtank Mini: http://www.beyondvape.com/store/clearomizer-tanks-c-21_62/kanger-subtank-mini-p-2084.html
Use this coil (Subtank Vertical OCC) - https://www.myfreedomsmokes.com/occ-vertical-coil-replacement-head-5pack.html

Atty for Sweet Flavors - Beyond Vape Silo Beast - http://www.beyondvape.com/store/bv-tanks-atomizers-c-112_117/beyond-vape-silo-beast-tank-kit-p-2310.html
Buy this tank replacement thing - http://www.beyondvape.com/store/bv-tanks-atomizers-c-112_117/beyond-vape-silo-beast-shorty-sleeve-p-2314.html
Use these coils (.4 ohms) - http://www.giantvapes.com/triton-occ-bvc-coil-5-pack/

Best New Stupid Priced Juice: http://www.giantvapes.com/symmetry-six/ - It's ridiculous.

I'm happy to pimp my own brand, but whatever. We released 4 new juices in the last 3 months. One of them tastes like some corn nonsense. No, I'm not joking.

Also we won "People's Choice" vote that took place over nearly 6 months. We're in somewhere between 500 and 1000 stores now. Yay team. Throw a rock and you can probably find us near you.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39720/TELEOS/PHOTOS/vape_summit_peoples_choice.png)

That's your stuff? What's the best tobacco flavor? It's the one thing I see others not try well. Which is why I'm a fan of Halo's tobacco juices.


Because even after a few years of vaping, I'm still a cigarette fiend at heart. I'm only trying to recreate the experience.

Did you know?  A study is released which shows kids are using ecigs to vape THC and other things which, unlike nicotine, are terrible.  Obviously funded by Big Tobaccy since "everyone" knows you vaporize weed in a pax.

Smoking weed with this equipment sounds like a waste. Way too much resin and hard to clean. Just get a pipe.

There is another purpose-built tool for it.  You can get rid of your pipe unless you somehow like the taste of burning.

Well, I don't smoke weed. Not in decades. You would know better than I.  :oh_i_see:

Good talk.

We only have one tobacco flavor, Eight Bells. It's absolutely nothing like a cigarette. One of my friends is making a flavor that's the closest I've come to an actual cigarette and it's fucking awesome. It's not out yet. I'll post when it is. It won't be cheap, actual tobacco extracts and whatnot.

Tobacco sells like shit for the most part. Ours does ok, but it's an inertia thing, we're popular so everything does ok. On the market as a whole though, tobacco is a losing game.

Edit: We experimented with some raw virginia tobacco and created this amazing flavor, but without knowing what's in it, we weren't willing to sell it.

Cool. I'll check here some other time.

I've tried some extracted types.. some have been good, but thick and clogging. I don't know what the hell Halo does.. they're not heavy VG juices, but somehow hit the spot for me.

Halo has been around forever, like one of maybe 10 or so that predate my own by a good amount of time.

The only thing I don't like about them is they made a business out of selling stuff direct, but they're priced like there's layers of people between them and the public when really there's no middleman. I don't want to get into a talk about the pricing of ejuice as it seems astronomical (it's not), but I will say that Halo could be around $15.99 or $16.99 and it would make more sense to me given their business model.

When it comes out, you're going to want to try Screwbacco from Steam Factory, in either a subtank or an atlantis. It has a strawberry note, but mostly it's a cigarette.

Due to an accidental destruction of my atlantis tank and sf sub battery, I have picked up the kanger sub box + included tank. I am very happy with the vape that it provides.

P.S. Tanks and batteries do not survive seven story drops.

Did you kill anyone?  Even close?

Unfortunately not, however, my kit left a divot in the asphalt it landed on.

I am amazed at the vertical coil in my kanger mini. It's not getting gooped up, it's pristine after like a month.