f13.net

I generally regard the posters on this forum as smarter than the average intraweb user, even if I am not, which is why I am posting this here.
Anyway, the story goes like this. In an effort to get rid of my allergies, which have ruined family vacations, trips abroad, and kept my roommates awake at night with my coughing, and inevitably grossed them out every morning when I hack up phlem, I have been directed to every kind of homeopathic wack job under the sun. I've been shocked, pounded, hooked up to a laptop running windows 98 and zapped, put drops under my tongue, and given every type of natural supplement you can imagine. Well anyway, all of that was complete bullshit, because it hasn't worked, so I decided to go for something more aligned with medical science (which hasn't worked either so far).

I meet with this lady who by far seems the most legit out of any of the other doctors. She's taking snot samples, interviewing me for an hour, letting me see the stuff under a microscope, and it all sounds very science-ey and whatever. I was told she gives injections every so often depending on the results of your blood work. So when I sit down for the first injection, she tells me to fill a cup with piss, which I do, then come back. Meanwhile I don't know why, and when she starts filling up the syringe with a CC of my piss, I have a few eyebrows raised. She filtered it through some strainer attached to the syringe, then shot it in my ass. I'm supposed to come back once a week for the shot.

A: Has anyone ever tried this?
B: Is this as ridiculous as everything else?
C: Is it worth giving a shot to avoid a lifetime of inhalers and anti-biotics?

I'm Out.

I think is a better spot for this.
And... eww.

No. There's no such thing as being "aligned with medical science". There is science and then there is pseudoscience. My BS detector has gone through the roof and I highly suspect google will tell you this is complete shit and you are one gullible (and sadly, desperate) guy. Seriously. Using a microsope and syringe and trying to couch it in medical terminology just makes it more suspect. At best, it does nothing but engage the placebo effect. Someone who "seems legit" is simply better at selling their particular brand of pseudoscience.

But don't take my word for it, spend an hour browsing through PubMed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/) for urine therapy.

If you are desperate to get outside of mainstream but along something that is fairly scientifically documented (though still not condoned) get yourself infected with hookworm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helminthic_therapy) instead.

Did the shots, took the tests. "Mainstream" science gives me allegra D, albuterol, Advair, and tells me to take benedryl whenever I have a problem, which isn't happening since it makes me feel worse than if I was just suffering from allergies. So "desperate" is correct. 

Have you checked for toxic mold?

Someone is taking the piss here.

It's fucking lupus.  :why_so_serious:

To be honest it wont harm you as Urine is sterile, but I cant really see the benefits of this as all that will happen is the Urea will just get strained out of the blood through the kidneys again.

There is a theory that allergies are really the immune system going a little crazy as it hasn't been stimulated by contact with bacteria in our sterile environment. So I'd be more in favour of the hookworm stuff mentioned above. But hey, don't even begin to pretend we have a clue what we are talking about.

And Lupus is actually something you should get checked out for. My Sister had it and nearly died from it.

I'd tell her to piss off.

So much I could say... instead:

See your GP and get a referral to an allergist. 

This will not help, unless your problem is "having too much money".

Taking a sugar pill will make you feel considerably better, with lower side effects, than injecting yourself with your own urine.

Here's a hint: Homeopathic means "fraud". This lady? Fraud. The guys prescribing you Zyrtec? Actual doctors. In your case, you may have to choose between different forms of misery, but they're not miracle workers.

If you've had the allergen tests, you know what you're allergic to. Move somewhere it isn't.

Did some research, concluded that you're probably right, its majorly bullshit. It was my initial feeling from the start, but then I found articles throwing around the word "Mexico" and concluded that this is crap.

Maybe someday when they make documentaries about the massive scam of homeopathic medicine, I could totally be interviewed as the utmost guinea pig who was at the shitty end of all this nonsense. Anyway, at least it is a story. And I've had the allgergn tests, and am literally allergic to every tree in he midwest, including most types of grass, mold, dander, and dust. It isn't possible to escape it.

Tease.   :why_so_serious:

Not all problems have solutions, sorry.

Dara O'Briain sums up pseudoscience better than anyone else I know (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMvMb90hem8)

edit: Wait, did this woman give you an intramuscular injection of your own piss?

Thank you Vision, now I have something new to talk about during cocktail parties.

You could always infect yourself with hookworms.  Some people swear they work for severe allergies: a New York Times article on the subject (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/health/01iht-01prof.14122951.html?_r=1)

I heard about this on NPR.  I think it was an episode of Radiolab that covered the subject of parasites.

Try going to a real doctor not some homeopathy crap?

No, More so, Whatever floats your boat....you should try ear candling and letting some one read the bumps on your head next.

Sounds like the Sahara is the place for you then.

I've heard of the hookworm treatments before.  It's interesting, but something I'd want to research thoroughly and have my doctor in agreement on before trying.  Really, as Nebu said, get an appointment with a specialist through your GP.

this. Mind you, they are illegal in the US, so you would have to go abroad.

Meh, at first glance hook worm sounds worse than shooting urine into my ass. But who could really say either way? I suppose my initial questions were out of desperate hope, which is now painfully real.

At least I didn't go ahead with the ozone treatment....

(http://i.imgur.com/XLAd8.jpg)

At least you have now coined the phrase "Don't give me Urine Therapy and then tell me it's Rain" in my household.

Well done.

Move out of the midwest.

My son is allergic to practically every form of grass known to man. My wife? Allergic to half the trees that exist. They're miserable about three months a year, though Zyrtec does a lot to keep that down. You have to take antihistimines daily, and for awhile, before they start making a dent on those allergies.

I should move to New Mexico. I was shocked at how I suddenly didn't have allergies out there.

GF's allergic to most of what you cite, and she's lived a relatively allergy free life in the pacific northwest. Due to the constant rain, there's less floating dust/pollen/dander in the air. She cannot really live anywhere else other than here.

Holy Fuck, dude. You paid someone to inject your own piss into your ass and it wasn't even sexual.

Well sign me right the fuck up.  What the hell.   :ye_gods:

Based on this I'd be looking to move to the pacific north west.

Its got to be better than getting injected up the ass with your own piss. And paying for it.

Unknowingly, I didn't go there under the pretense of thinking I was going to get injected with piss. I was told she treated allergies by injections, all I knew, and I figued that sounded more legit than holding onto some rod hooked up to a laptop so someone can "zap" your allergies away (stupid on my part). I had already been there for almost 2 hours, and was stuck paying for the consultation anyway, so by the time I found about this whole piss thing, my $ was already gone. It was stupid of me either way, obviously.

I am not going to derail this thread away from the discussion of the positives and negatives of urinating in to rectums, but there is something seriously wrong with alternative medical treatments done for profit akin to operating a church for profit.

I agree, and had I not been skeptical about the whole thing, I sure wouldn't be telling the unforgiving internet about the experience unless I had wanted to make sure the money I "pissed" away wasn't totally for nothing.

You should have come to the experts at F13 earlier.

1. Homeopathy is nonsense.  Completely based on placebo effect, unless they raise concentrations in solutions, in which case they may literally be poisoning you.  People often cite the founder's success at treating patients, while neglecting to mention the fact that he was unique in the medical profession of his time for recommending that people not wallow in their own filth when sick.

2. Electro-convulsive therapy works for some psychological problems, including a number of anxiety and depressive disorders.  However if it's done right it has the same effect on your brain that a degaussing coil has on a TV.  If you leave shock therapy and aren't completely fucked up and incapable of forming coherent thought you didn't get a correct dose, because the purpose of the therapy is pretty much to wipe your brain fucking clean of accumulated electrochemical charge.

3. Pounded?  If that's your thing I'd recommend going to a roadhouse and growing some beer muscles.

4. A laptop based ECT device? :why_so_serious:

5. Drops under your tongue is standard homeopathy.  The solutions they use are chemically indistinguishable from water.  Unless they're using high concentrations, see #1.

5. Natural supplements?  As is herbs?  Mostly harmless if they're not prescribing nightshade or some shit.  Maybe even helpful, some herbs contain natural analogues to real medicines, or contain important but rare nutrients.

6. Piss lady is retarded.

Go to a real doctor, work your way through the list of drugs and see what works best.  Eat more fruit, fatty acids, and take a multi-vitamin heavy on Vitamins C, B, and D to get some of those opportunistic infections in your sinuses to fuck off (C only affects immune system function when it's deficient, but it also acts as an antihistamine).

Your allergies have very real solution - its called immunotherapy. It works by injecting you with low doses of allergens to gradually desensitize you to whatever causes you to cough (like pollen, cedar, cats, tobacco and so on), you can expect nearly complete recovery within a year. For this to work you will need to get injections EVERY WEEK for LONG TIME, and first couple months without any noticeable difference (because most immunologists are too afraid of lawsuits and ramp up doses way to slow). You can also reduce your allergies by moving away or eliminating the source of your allergens. Do you own a cat or dog? Is there mold growing in your basement? Do you have cedars on your property?

If not that, adrenaline will also relive your symptoms, and it is ENTIRELY up to you how you get yours.

You can also try Apitherapy (bee venom), histamine jolt derived from bee venom supposedly inhibits receptors responsible for inflammation/allergy process.

Falling that, start taking heavy steroids (corticosteroids that also used in treating asthma), get your immune system completely fucked and die from trivial infection (but allergy free!) within 20 years.

Your choice, but dude, don't get urine involved in this, unless its for your own sick pleasure.

You generally don't have allergies when you are seriously ill/dying from something because your immune system does prioritize and keeping you alive takes precedent over fighting off pollen.

Homeopathy can apparently help with gunshot wounds, missing children, homelessness, unemployment and rape. (https://johnbenneth.wordpress.com/2010/12/30/in-one-year-homeopathy-could-have-helped/)

The older rents bought into all this homeo stuff a while ago, so to appease them I agreed to go to these various "Doctors" who had me hold some metal conductor hooked up to a laptop with various allergens on a chart, which they then zap some acupuncture point on your finger to test your allergic reason to said allergen. They then pound you on the spine with that knee-jerk hammer and say it resets something in your brain, and then make you hold a vial for ten mintues and do the arm test. Another doctor gave me sublingual drops that I was supposed to keep up with for a year, which lasted about three weeks before I decided it was bullshit and quit. Another doctor wanted me to take some kind of foot bath in a salt solution while holding some kind of current, which I never did either.
Piss lady happens to be the most recent wack job, who I thought used injections similar to what MD's gave me as a kid.

I actually live in the Southwest now, where my allergies are supposed to be better than they were in the Midwest when I was a kid, but they aren't a whole lot better. They were absolutely terrible in Japan, which I plan to return to and was hoping to not suffer an average of 1 sinus infection/ear infection per month when I return, which is what it was last time I was there. Primarily because Japanese anti-biotics do next to nothing to fix my infections, I dont think they were strong enough.

But I had a question about inhalers like Advair and Albuterol, which I am told are technically "steroids" used to help you breath better. Is there any possible long term side effects of prolonged Advair/Albuterol usage?

Sounds legit. :uhrr:

Advair and Albuterol are not technically steroids, they're literally steroids.  These ones limit the damage by being a measured dose applied topically (I don't know as that's the word I'm looking for) via inhalation to the respiratory tract.  Your respiratory tract just so happens to be the second fastest way to get a drug to your brain and anywhere else in your body where you might like a drug to go, so I would bet that a not insignificant amount of an inhaled dose will reach the bloodstream.

I can sympathize, I used to have shitty allergy and sinus problems as a child.  Just one year I didn't start on my daily regimen of Reactine and Sudafed when symptoms started cropping up in the spring and they just went away.  Not that I'd recommend that, since I have no real idea why it worked in the first place.

I still don't like Pseudoephedrine or Phenylephrine, they both leave me completely wiped.  Which is abnormal, since apparently I should be completely wired while on them.

In an attempt to give you hope - I suffered from massive boughts of various hayfever type allergies as a child, typically missing two or three weeks of school per year in some cases. They got less severe in my twenties, and by 30 were almost completly gone. Of course I have no idea how old you are now.

I was about the same massive problems with sinus infections allergies from my teens to mid 20s. Thankfully seems like as I got closer to 30 it got better and now I have not had a full blown relapse in years.

On the other hand I seem to be getting more allergic to stuff as I get older.

I am lightly allergic to lots of common things.  I take Singulair. 

Vision, have you even been tested for what you are allergic too?

Yes, they are immune 'suppressants' and are milder version of drugs given to organ transplant patients to prevent organ rejection. They undoubtedly work, but are not without "cost". Synthetic steroids mimic naturally occurring hormones and will affect your body's ability to self-regulate. Long term effects are gradual worsening of your condition and possible hormonal imbalance leading to functional addiction to this type of medicine. Longer you take steroids, higher the dose you will require to affect you, harder it will be to stop doing so, more dependent you will become on taking them regularly, and more pronounced your side effects (diarrhea, headaches, dizziness, vomiting - just read fine print) going to be.

You can think about long term effects in terms of smoking - one dose, to treat allergy flare-up, will not have any harmful effect. One dose every day for 20 years and you will likely to die from pneumonia.

Still you have to weight pros and cons, if your allergy as bad as you describe you are a lot more likely to die from complications to Nth ear infection than from possible steroidal side-effects.

OK, long time allergy sufferer chiming in.  I've had allergies since I can remember, but I've only really been taking medication (other than benedryl when I was really, really bad) since college.  I've tried just about everything and in just about every combination.  I'm allergic to just about every grass/tree/weed in Arizona, but thankfully over time my animal dander allergies have gone away and I register nothing with mold (non-toxic) and dust mites.  

First thing, see your GP and get a referral to an allergist (immunologist) and also possibly an ENT (ear-nose-throat).  As well as your allergies, you may structural problems that the ENT can take a look at.  I, for instance, nearly have a completely blocked nasal passage, but it's open just enough that they don't want to do surgery.  They really try to avoid the surgery because it's serious shit and pretty risky.  FYI, CAT scans can get pretty costly.  I might like it at some point, but I'm no professional athelete so it's not needed, and I really don't want to do a serious operation (again).

The only problem with seeing both is that possibly the ENT may be part of a practice that included allergy shots (they want that business) and they'll both give you advice on your medications (bonus is that you can double up on free samples).  For allergy shots, see what operation looks more professional and what has better hours. It takes 1.5-2 hours every week or every other week at the start if you do shots and it can be hard to work in if you have a job that keeps somewhat strict hours. Personally, I've liked the operation run by my allergist, but they've been more prone to giving me reactions with the shots (which SUCK). However, the ENT's attempt at shots didn't produce as great of an improvement in my overall well being.

If you're really bad (like it sounds like you are), your initial medications will likely be a combination.  Possibly something taken orally (like claritin) and something for the nasal portion of your allergies.  This can make you feel a bit pilled.   It'll take a while before you find a out what works, but it'll be worth it when you do.  For instance, it had to find out the fun way that Zyrtec and Singulair give me anxiety and the 24 hour version of claritin D makes me unable to sleep. Luckily, I'm doing OK now with just one claritin D 12hr a day.  Due to my nasal passage issues, if I don't take a decongestant, I get severe sinus headaches like clockwork.  I also have some astelin (nasal) for really bad days.  Winter is right now is a good time for me (yay plant death), and I can even skip days of medication, although not too many in a row.

Cliff notes: You need to deal with this medically with a combination of prescription and/or OTC medication as well investigating if you have any structural damage that could be exacerbating the situation.  Good luck.

edit: If you get any sort of allergy shots, you will get allergy testing.  This is an extremely uncomfortable procedure, so when you get it, block off an entire day.  You're not going to want to work after that.

There's actually some science behind the hookworm thing, the breakthrough study was the occupants of a pacific island whose diet had always been based on octopus suddenly developing allergies to octopus when they were cured of their intestinal parasites.  There are also strong correlational studies between excessive childhood cleanliness and allergies/asthma.  Essentially, it seems that allergies and asthma are frequently the result of a mis-calibrated immune system (because you weren't fighting off parasites) and it keeps amping itself up until it finds something to respond to.

--Dave

Heh, I was pretty dirty throughout a majority of my childhood.  Years 1-10 my backyard was essentially an acre of undeveloped desert.

As for hookworks, not really an option in my case. GI issues.  NO thanks.  

Who knows - maybe they would have fixed that too!

(http://i.imgur.com/zp3DK.png)

Those look like roundworms and not hookworms.  If you've ever worked in pediatrics and had to pull some out of a kid's ass, they'd forever be burned into your brain. 

Get a guinea worm and your allergies will seem trivial.

How long/over how many years or ear infections does that usually take? Dying isn't my thing.

I've heard of people like "Doctor" Weir and other quacks suggesting you drink your own piss, but I've never heard of anyone getting a shot of it in the ass. I think the minute she started filling up the syringe with it, I'd have been outie.

I need to start up a homeopathy shop.

Why stop at urine?  Perhaps a syringe full of my feces will cure cancer.  I'm game.

Well, there's a first post you don't see every day.

Are you a universal pisser?

I get allergy shots, they seem to work a bit, but It's been ~9 months now and I've still got pretty bad allergies, although moving out of the mold house has helped quite a bit.

Now that I've got insurance again due to school, I'm going to look into that new nose balloon surgery, as like Rasix, my nasal passages are tiny and I don't like life much without a decongestant.  The new surgery is supposedly a lot cheaper, easier, and covered by more insurances, as instead of cutting shit out they basically inflate a balloon inside your sinus cavity and move the cartilage, permanently stretching it out.

Rasix, if your insurance doesn't cover it, I'm sure you can find a local quack that will do it with a happy birthday balloon and a tank of Helium for a few hundred bucks, maybe it'll work!

The hookworm thing seems to be in the same category as blowfly maggots and leeches: Medical science has determined there actually is a real benefit over any alternative chemical or mechanical treatment in certain instances (debriding dead tissue in crush injuries for the maggots, removing stagnant blood from re-attached extremities for leeches) but the "ick" factor and the appearance of medieval/witch doctor quackery means there's a lot of resistance to even talking about it in medical circles, never mind using it.

--Dave

A better first post would have included a picture.....but whatever, at least it wasn't in politics.

Ever work in a shop that sells live bait? :oh_i_see:

No, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the question at hand.  The maggots and leeches used for medical purposes are raised under sterile conditions.

--Dave

Humans live in symbiosis with any number of bacteria from cradle to grave, and imbalances can cause medical problems regardless of how helpful or harmful that brand of bacteria might be under normal circumstances.  On that level the hookworm thing makes quite a bit of sense to me because I don't see why a parasite couldn't work in the same way.  Of course, I have a layman's understanding of the subject, and only know that what research has been done looks reasonable, but that skepticism is still a very good policy when dealing with health issues.

Also, it reminds me of an awesome Futurama episode.

Shit isn't sterile, and leeches tend to create it until they die in their own feces, at which point they rot.  You would not imagine how fucking hard it is too keep leeches alive, how fast they begin to reek, and how fucking eerie it is to clean their container and find that the water has changed viscosity overnight (it's literally like un-aerated firefighting foam, or water with an extremely high concentration of soap) because it is full of leech slime, shit, and decay.  All of which accelerates the dying off process, at which point they decide to feed off of eachother's rotting corpses because hey, when in Rome.  You're not supposed to keep minnows and leeches in the same tank, because they're so fucking foul their secretions will kill all the minnows.

Nightcrawlers would be pretty cool if they weren't a ridiculously elongated living asshole.  But almost nobody uses them as new age medicine.

Maggots I don't have experience with.

I'm not talking about New Age bullshit.  I'm talking about actual clinical use of leeches in a hospital.


Apparently the anti-coagulant used by leeches is impossible to synthesize and impractical to harvest (it's produced on-demand by the leech, there's no reservoir of it in the leech).  They're working on a "mechanical leech" based on Heparin, but it's not even in trials yet.

Nor is the medical use of maggots (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/10/1024_031024_maggotmedicine.html) New Age mumbo jumbo.

--Dave

I worked on a few cases in my career where people had ears or large portions of their nose cut off for various reasons and we used leeches to help the severed part regain vascularity.  It is was fairly effective, but a real pain in the ass to deal with from a clinical standpoint. 

Okay, that I'll buy.  I still won't be championing the practice anytime soon.

If you'd like to keep the body part they just reattached to you, you will. :)

They're only used for a small number of things, but what they're used for they have no competiton. Mind you, no one really likes having leeches attached to them and I'm fairly sure very few, if any, surgeons are thrilled with "And now we attach leaches" as a post-op procedure, so I have no doubt they will eventually be replaced. :)

Leeches are not nearly as disgusting as they're made to look in movies. They take a tiny amount of blood, and fall off after a minute or two without even leaving much of a mark.

Yeah, the leech scene in Stand By Me still freaks me out.

Is this the part where I talk about city folk again? You guys haven't had to deal with leeches?

What Nebu and Sinij said. See allergist. Get shots.

Is this the part where I ask you how many wolves have been shot from your front porch?

Do a rattlesnake and other varmints count?  Not a lot of wolves in Texas.

Had a bear a couple times, lots of coy-dogs and varmints, no wolves. Once there was a lion, but that was different.

Never shot any of them though (except some varmints, of course), I was the city boy of rednecks. Didn't really get into the whole hunting thing. I guess it was all the deer piss, to bring it back to topic...

I once had to call animal control to remove a possum. Does that count?

On the one hand, I'm pretty sure it was actually dying. On the other hand, they're really good at faking. Either way, I wasn't going near the ratlike bastard.