f13.net

Not necessarily illicit. For my own part, I want to discuss legal pharmaceuticals. Haven't found a thread for this kind of thing.

I've taught pharmacology, clinical toxicology, and medicinal chemistry for years.  I'll be happy to address questions if I'm able.  I also recommend sites like www.rxlist.com for information.

I have first hand experience with many types of pharmaceuticals.  :uhrr:

Morphine didn't impress me.  Hydrocodone is a godsend.

Tramadol sucks.  Felt terrible on it, it caused terrible dreams, and it felt like I was dying coming off.  Even though I slept for 36 hours straight (broken by two, hour periods where I attempted to eat), I still felt like crap the entire time.

I drank Benadryl like water as a kid.  With all my childhood allergies I'm very thankful it always worked well for me and the only tolerance I developed was to it causing drowsiness.

That's a bold statement.

If she likes hydrocodone, she likes morphine... just in a more indirect way. 

Alas:  I thought this thread might go to good places.

I'll be happy to discuss those as well.  I have been known to teach the manufacture of controlled substances in my synthetic courses. 

I was in the hospital recently with a 10 minute 2mg morphine button.  For whatever reason it just didn't seem as effective as my 5mg per 4 hour hydrocodone, even though they're very similar.  Morphine also made me more nauseous.

Yes.  It's horrible for that and I dislike it intensely over such horrid side effects.  My friend said I'd make a terrible junkie =P

Certain folks have a fairly intense nausea reaction to opiates, just as some people become horribly addicted to them.  I happen to fall in the former category myself.

Hydrocodone is wonderful, while Codeine, even just a little in cough syrup, makes me freak out.  Weird stuff.

Ritalin is pure speed for most people; but for some with ADD or ADHD it's like a tranquilizer, even to the point of putting you to sleep.  Weird stuff.

The side effects of blood pressure medications all pretty much suck.  Hypertension without blood pressure medication really sucks.  Choose wisely.

I'm allergic to every tree, grass and weed in my yard, dust and dust mites, my cat, mold & mildew, etc, etc & etc.  Allegra once a day means I can breathe without wheezing, see without my eyes being puffy red, weepy and itchy, and basically live without trying to scratch my own skin off.  Better living through chemistry!

My favorite mood-altering chemical of choice remains caffeine.

Does Ambien count?  I love the stuff.  It's been a godsend for me.  Or do we have to be having "Ambien Sex" like Tiger Woods to talk about it?

I'm so boring.  I hate taking Tylenol, much less a single gram of anything y'all have mentioned.   I think the last drug I took was the antibiotics to get rid of a sinus infection 3 years ago.

Though I was on Theo-Dur Sprinkle and Dimetapp Elixir from the age of 10 to 15 (when Dimetapp still required a prescription).  Developmental asthma is a bitch.

You are not boring, you are healthy.

A few years back, my parents were changing health insurance companies.  Their new rep called them to let them know they failed to fill out part of the application.  They were like, "WTF, we filled out the whole thing!"  Rep said they didn't list the meds they were taking and my parents weren't on any.

It is a sad state of affairs that were are considered to be in error when we fail to list medications we are not taking, even if we really are not taking them.

I think the strongest pain-killer I've ever taken was a Tylenol 3 after I had my wisdom teeth out. I have no idea what is in a Tylenol 3, but they worked real good!  :heart:


Well, I guess the stuff they used to put me under for the actual removal of said wisdom teeth was undoubtedly stronger. Also whatever my Dentist injects into my mouth before drilling a cavity, that's probably stronger too.

I started taking Modafinil recently. It has hailed by some (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/my-experiment-with-smart_b_156954.html) as a miracle drug. Its primary effect is to make your brain not feel the feeling of "tired". It does so without feeling like a stimulant...we're not even talking meth here, it's more subtle than caffeine. For a lot of people, it helps with motivation in focus. It does so with a very low incidence of side effects and a lack of physiological addiction. It's becoming more and more the replacement for "study drugs" at colleges and whatnot. In the past Adderral and Ritalin were the big ones, but they're both stimulants that have side effects and make you feel strung out and all the good stuff that comes along with taking relatively strong stimulants. My experience with Modafinil has had me feeling more refreshed, sleeping less hours, and getting more done than I ever thought possible.

Almost makes me laugh when I think of Sci-Fi shows like BSG talking about taking "stims" that make you feel like shit when we've already developed pharmaceuticals that you can take and stay up for 40 hours straight and be at 70% of maximum capacity. Yeah, the drug is being used by militaries around the world in situations where people need to stay awake for long periods of time, or can only afford small amounts of rest.

Codeine fucks with me hardcore and I will never touch that shit. Makes me delusion. I had some when I broke the shit out of my ankle as a kid and I laid in my bed all night thinking pinballs were bouncing around my room.

Edit: my one experience with Hydrocodone (didn't realize when I first read that one brand name is Vicodin) was after my gastric bypass surgery. Definitely a lot better. Took it, laid in bed for 20 minutes feeling fuzzy, and passed out. Might have been 3 days in the hospital not sleeping due to feeling like shit though. I also had about 8 hours of a morphine drip but I stopped that on my own volition.

Tylenol 3 is Codein + tylenol.  Hydrocodone is basically artificial codein + tylenol I think - though I could be wrong.  Weird how a lot of people react so differently to the two though.

I hate taking meds.  I just hate the effects of not taking meds even more.  Like post-surgical pain, extreme allergies up to and including anaphylactic shock, and strokes or aneurisms and death.  They all pretty much suck more than the meds do.  I have to remind myself of that every single day or I wouldn't take any anymore.

Right now, there is a big debate on pain control vs over use/misuse of prescription pain medicine.

On one side you want people to be out of pain and able to function (or at least able to function with the pain level @ a tolerable level), while another group feels that you give enough till they shut up on the pain (I have to wake patients up, do a pain check, and they tell me they are sleeping with a "10" on a 0 to 10 scale...) even if they end up on a respirator.

I hear and read case studies about how "pain is undiagnosed, untreated, and under-treated", yet then I deal with a shit ton of overdoses on prescription meds & the DEA & FDA all up in arms on how it is being misused.

I have people who break there legs, hips, and/or arms and refuse narcotics (they tend to be older people or ex-junkies), and I grimace on how they look and feel, but no amount of teaching and empathy will get them to take it.  Then you have the ones screaming and hollering for pain meds as soon as they walk in (hell sometimes in the parking lot when I go wheel them in).  I think that our pediatric population probably suffers the most lack of care in acute and chronic pain control, some doc's get it, but most don't.

A middle ground, with some better tracking would serve the patients better.  Get the patient out of pain and able to function, of course this isn't a one-stop one-pill thing, it will take a lot of visits and multiple professions.  A tracking system with EMR (oh yeah we still ain't got it yet...) would be awesome, as you could see if the patient was legit vs scamming.  We have a system in Indiana, where if you go to a pharmacy and get a prescription for II, III, IV, or V class of drug, it is logged.  It tells when it was given and how many and who/where it was prescribed.  It is great to check, as all ages and walks of life try and play us for the patsy.  The bad apple's make it rotten for the patients who need the medicine.  And I wish people wouldn't freaking drive while taking medicine that says DO NOT DRIVE WHILE TAKING THIS MEDICINE.

I was watching some channel on cable (current TV) called "the Oxycontin express" which shows how bad it can get, but then you get other doctors that are scared to give more than acetaminophen (Tylenol) to them.

Of course I'm biased on acute/emergent treatments and the medicines that go with it.

I hope you are feeling and doing better Lanty.  Getting sick sucks.

What kind of doc do I need to see to get some of this stuff? I have serious focus issues and I'm starting back to school in a few weeks - I'm guessing my allergist can't prescribe this stuff.

Tylenol or Acetaminophen or Paracetamol are the same drug, it "is in a class of medications called analgesics (pain relievers) and antipyretics (fever reducers). It works by changing the way the body senses pain and by cooling the body." (They need to add non-narcotic)  You can get it over the counter in damn near every country, in regular (325mg tabs) or extra strength (500mg) and the dose is 2 tabs (650mg or 1000mg) and usually can take up to 4 times a day (max dose is 4000mg a day, but if you drink, only 2000mg a day).  This drug is very effective and used in combination products, where they put acetaminophen in with another drug to make a synergistic effect creating better relief.  One of the worst drugs ever to overdose one!!!  Liver failure is fatal or if it doesn't will make you wish you had!

Codeine (INN) or methylmorphine is an opiate used for its analgesic, antitussive, and antidiarrheal properties, first made in France back in 1832.  It is usually a prescription drug, meaning you can't go and get it without a doctor's Rx, but some countries still sell it over the counter.  Dose is usually 10mg to 60mg, max is 360mg a day.  It is not as strong as morphine, as 200mg of codeine would equal 30mg of morphine, but if you need that much codeine, they put you on a different medicine.  Codeine is famous for making you nauseated, constipated, sleepy, and decreasing your sex drive.  It can give you a euphoric effect that narcotics give, hence the potential for abuse, and with misuse and abuse can lead to tolerance, hence more drug needed, which can lead to respiratory depression, which means you stop breathing and die.

Hydrocodone Hydrocodone or dihydrocodeinone is a semi-synthetic opioid derived from either of two naturally occurring opiates, codeine and thebaine. Hydrocodone is an orally active narcotic analgesic (pain reliever) and antitussive (cough suppressant).  In the US is always mixed with either acetaminophen (Vicodin-- hydrocodone & acetaminophen) or ibuprofen (Vicoprofen--hydrocodone & ibuprofen), it has many names for these combination drugs.  Some are: Vicodin, Hydrococet, Symtan, Anexsia, Damason-P, Dicodid, Hycodan (or generically Hydromet), Hycomine, Hycet, Lorcet, Lortab, Norco, Novahistex, Hydrovo, Duodin, Kolikodol, Orthoxycol, Panacet, Zydone, Mercodinone, Synkonin, Norgan, Xodol and Hydrokon.  Either way they usually are hydrocodone and acetaminophen.  The does varies, but usually 5mg hydrocodone/325mg acetaminophen, 7.5mg/750mg acetaminophen, and 10mg/500mg acetaminophen are common Vicoden strengths, no more than 8 tabs a day of the 5mg, no more than 6 of the 7.5 or 10mg's tablets, and no more than 4000mg total acetaminophen.  Same thing as codeine, except it is six time stronger than codeine (where the VI on the tabs comes from).  Once again it can screw you up, make you not able to screw, and then let you die passed out.  But most of the time you blow out your liver and end up wishing you had died.

Tylenol products (acetaminophen & another drug), Tylenol is also sold as a class of stronger pain relievers containing codeine, known as co-codamols: Tylenol 1 contains 325 mg acetaminophen and 8 mg codeine; Tylenol 2 contains 300 mg/15 mg, Tylenol 3 (300 mg/30 mg),Tylenol 4 (300 mg/60 mg, and Tylenol 5 (300 mg/90 mg). In Canada, Tylenol 1, 2 and 3 all include 15 mg caffeine, in addition to the above ingredients; furthermore, Tylenol 1 is sold in Canada without a prescription, while all forms of Tylenol with codeine require a prescription in the US.  "T#3" tends to be the most common for adults in the US since it has the effective dosage available of codeine and acetaminophen.

I can't stress again how bad Tylenol can be if you take to much, the pain that the patient and family can experience is insane and is probably the worst way to die.

Modafinil is amazing.

I spent a long time on co-codamol (30mg codeine/500mg acetaminophen) for my back and you do indeed build up a resistance to the codeine effects fairly quickly. First 3 months or so I had problems with constipation. Wasn't sure about the sex drive since I wasn't physically capable of sex anyway.

Interestingly, in the UK, supermarkets now restrict you to buying 1 packet of painkillers containing paracetamol (acetaminophen) at a time - usually 16 x 500mg tablets. I've read that since this policy was implemented paracetamol overdoses have decreased significantly here. It's been a pain in the arse for me since the supermarket we use is slack with their product coding and their checkouts consider ALL painkillers to fall under this umbrella, hence I've been unable to purchase a packet of ibuprofen and a packet of paracetamol at the same time and have had to queue for 10-15 mins at the pharmacy counter every time. In the end I just got my GP to prescribe me enormous boxes of paracetamol & ibuprofen, much easier. Had to convince them I wasn't a potential suicide risk but given the assortment of other drugs they were already prescribing me (valium, cocodamol, tramadol) that wasn't difficult.

Totally agree with you Lant, tramadol is a horrible drug. I only had to use it for a short time when I was really bad and it was very effective, but vile side effects. Same with morphine, although I only had that in hospital, not nice at all. All in all I am very glad that we have such a good range of painkillers available to us these days but I'm also quite glad to be needing far less powerful ones, and far less frequently than I have had to use in recent years.

Now, if we wanna have some kind of discussion about recreational drugs then I'll join in that one too... had probably far too much experience of them too  :why_so_serious:

Why is that! Just to counter some of the sleepyness?





When it comes to medicine, I just do what my Doctor says. If my Doctor prescribes me X number of antibiotics to take and says "take all of these as prescribed, even if you start to feel better before then" then I will.


If it's something like "take these for pain as you feel the need" then I usually try to tough it out first, but I'm also not afraid of following the dosage given to me as available either. 

If more people actually did this (i.e. complete their courses of antibiotics even if they get better before the end) then we'd have far fewer problems with drug-resistant bacteria!

I have bad teeth - combination of genetics and being sick a lot as a kid.  Therefore I've had a LOT of dental work done over the years.

Tylenol (OTC) got me through most of it, to the shock of the dentists doing the work.  When that didn't work, darvocet for a day or two did the trick.  However, I took a prescription for hydrocodone once just to see what the big deal was about it.  I noticed that I was giggly and loopy when taking it, but the pain was still hanging around - I just didn't notice it as much.  Also the stomach issues as some others have mentioned.


Seconded...  And maybe we can get Nebu to make the class some samples.   :awesome_for_real:

I think a pain discussion might make an interesting thread all its own.  Folks' brains interpret the signals differently, combined with previous exposure history leading to so many varied responses.

Thanks to a lifelong renal problem, I can't take aspirin, which is an annoyance to get around, and paracetamol on its own does nothing for me; I pretty much have to keep a small stock of ibuprofen and cocodemol (paracetamol and codeine phosphate hemihydrate blend). Cocodemol is wonderful stuff and I'm eternally grateful it's still available over the counter in the UK, but even that struggles with serious tooth pain and migraines.
On the other hand, I did get ridiculously high recently when a friend rolled a cheeky joint for me (I don't smoke cigarettes and or get much of a sniff of cannabis these days, so it's a rare treat) and we shared it till my lungs couldn't take any more. It wasn't even particularly strong stuff but combined with the 20mg codeine courtesy of the 2 cocodemol I'd forgotten I'd taken half an hour beforehand, it put me on my ass.

I'm going to have to look up on Allegra to see if/where it's available in the UK. I suffer pretty much every allergy you've listed (tri-seasonal hayfever is fun!) and take Loratadine between late April and early October to combat the worst of it but the sideeffects can pile up, I haven't slept much in the last week and I've been in a mild state of anxiety for months now. I need an (non-drowsy) alternative and Allegra looks like it might be a winner, if I can get hold of it.

Are you taking the straight or decongestant version of Loratadine?  Anything with pseudoephedrine in it will contribute to insomnia/anxiety, plus makes you jump through hoops trying to actually purchase it in the US.

And the hoops are set up so you cannot actually purchase a 15-pack of 24-hour Claritin-D every 15 days...   So it's either skip one day per week, or rotate between stores to accomodate the "limt..."   :uhrr:  Almost makes one feel like a criminal to have allergies.

Chlor-Trimeton has worked wonders for some of my nasal allergy stuff.  Takes a couple days to really start feeling the effects, but for 3 bucks a bottle, I'm not complaining.

Haha, wow. That's... not terribly useful. How odd. Anyway, no, the loratadine I take doesn't have psuedoephedrine in it as far as I can tell, though it does have lactose monohydrate in it, which isn't helpful since I'm lactose intollerant. But mild stomach upsets aside, I'd rather have a clear head and breathe easily than worry too much about that.

Singulair Montelukast is a pretty good allergy drug, which is a "leukotriene receptor antagonist (LTRA) used for the maintenance treatment of asthma and to relieve symptoms of seasonal allergies."  It is Rx only in the US, works pretty good on controlling seasonal allergies for both my son & I.  We used a combination of Singulair and Nasonex.  It worked wonders, we had been in New Mexico in the desert and I had lost my build up to the trees, grasses, wetness, and crap that the Midwest (Indiana) can throw @ us, so both of us would get miserable around fall and spring.  We don't have to use it much anymore, but if your body has trouble adapting to its environment it can be a godsend.

Nasonex (Mometasone Nasal Inhalation) is a "nasal inhalation is used for the treatment and prevention of nasal symptoms of seasonal and year-round allergies, including runny nose, sneezing, and itchy nose. Mometasone nasal inhalation is in a class of medications called topical steroids. It works by reducing inflammation (swelling) in the nasal passages."

Allegra & Claritin are both a form of antihistamines, which help reduce the swelling by inhibiting actions of histamine via histamine receptors.  They are supposed to not make you drowsy, but looking @ Claritin and how it is closely structurally related to tricyclic antidepressants, makes you wonder why it doesn't cause more problems.  Allegra is supposed to be less drowsy than 1st generation antihistamines by not crossing the blood-brain barrier as easy as they do.  Claritin -D has pseudoephedrine (Sudafed) which is a wonderful nasal/sinus decongestant, but that same pill can be used as a stimulant or wakefulness-promoting agent.  Thus the side effect can be sleepiness, nervousness, excitability, dizziness and anxiety.  That could be the cause of not feeling well while taking that medicine.

Sudafed or Pseudoephedrine (PSE) is a sympathomimetic drug of the phenethylamine and amphetamine chemical classes. It is used as a nasal/sinus decongestant and stimulant, or as a wakefulness-promoting agent.  Problem is that the little fuckers came up with Methamphetamine from it, and they way the "cook it" is freaking insane!

Making Home Made METH or Methamphetamine
  Lithium-Ammonia Reduction

The Lithium-Ammonia Reduction is a method derived from a reaction called “The Birch Reduction“. This method involves the use of Anhydrous Ammonia, a particularly nasty chemical, mixed with lithium. Various solvents and sodium hydroxide are used in this method. Commonly referred to as “The nazi method”, in reference to the german soldiers that reportedly manufactured it for their own use during WWII, when military supplies were not forthcoming. “One pot method”, or “Shake and bake” methods are derivatives of the original formula, using ammonium nitrate in place of anhydrous ammonia. This method produces a crystal with less impurities than syntheses utilizing red phosphorus, as well as being higher yeilding.

Hydroiodic Acid/Red Phosphorus Method

The Hydroiodic Acid/Red Phosphorus Method (and derivatives) is often referred to as “the matchbook method”, in reference to matchbooks being the source of red phosphorus in this reaction. This reaction utilizes sodium hydroxide (lye), iodine, and red phosphorus to produce methamphetamine.
And if you ever have been to a drug lab bust or clean up, you wonder how they don't blow themselves up more often.  Some states have a registration of how much sudafed you buy, some don't, or the manufactures changed the make up of it (which doesn't work as well on the type I've had).  Some Law Enforcement officials are advocating making it Rx only, which sucks but I see why they are doing it (cookers are getting around it by going to stores that don't check or sending out multiple people to buy sudafed).  This drug is insanely euphoric, and can last a long time (one hit last hours not minutes), and cheap to make, thus causing many to fall into the addiction cycle and destroy themselves.

I must state that since Indiana went to drivers license scanning for all purchases (and it being sold in only certain stores), it has cut down the amount of meth lab production considerably.  We used to have people blowing themselves up weekly, now it is 1 or 2 a year.  The Meth is still there, as now they grow pot and trade it for "Mexican Red" Meth.

Chances are, your bad teeth are not to blame on genetics.  Would you like me to give you another reason to hate your parents?  http://westonaprice.org/home-mainmenu-1.html (http://westonaprice.org/home-mainmenu-1.html).

Weston Price was a dentist who wrote a book called "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" which illustrates the difference in physical structure of those who were raised on a traditional, unprocessed diet, versus those who were raised on a western diet that is high in sugar and processed food.

tldr if you have a horse face or a fish face or fucked up teeth, you can blame the diet your parents fed you.

Edit: oh yeah I forgot about rat faces too.

Huh.  And it was the dentists telling me about the genetic link.  Go figure.

Also, your link is 404, but a quick Google search indicates not a lot of respect for Weston A Price.  And personally, without root canals (which he also had issues with), I'd have had full dentures shortly after I graduated college.

I'm on Nasonex as my sinues like to get a bit stuffy and snotty. I've tried staying away from it but I always go back.

I like nicotine.

I recently had some sort of allergic rash break out. The man who invented anti-histamines needs his hand shaken since that was the only thing that actually let me get to sleep for more than half an hour.

That book is a wonderful example of the principle that anecdote is not the singular form of evidence. It's all depressingly unscientific.

My link is not 404.  Perhaps you are using an Apple product, because when I click on the link it takes me directly to the site.

I'm so sorry for your horse face, but don't blame Price.  His book is available for free right here http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200251h.html (http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200251h.html).

I would rather have some smokeable herbal "medicine" then any type of prescriptions.   :hulk_rock:

Allegra is far and away the best allergy medicine I've tried so far.  I've been on it for 10+ years now I think, and no noticeable side-effects at all.  I do have to take a break from it for a month every couple of years as I build up tolerance to it, but it really does just take a month for it to be back to full effectiveness, amazingly enough.  Claritin is usually my standby, although it doesn't work nearly as well.  Pseudoephedrine and Benadryl (or are they the same thing?) both cause a weird rollercoaster ride of now-I'm-awake-and-bouncing-off-the-walls to so-sleepy-can't-keep-my-eyes-open-while-walking every 15 minutes or so for the duration of the dose.  Basically I'll only take them if I'm clogged up and about to board a plane (altitude changes with clogged sinuses is MISERABLE) or find myself going into anaphylactic shock - which hasn't happened since I started taking Allegra.

And although I take way too many meds, they are all prescribed by Dr's who know everything else I'm taking; and I never fail to take all my antibiotics; and I've only once come close to using up a whole prescription of pain-killer.  As soon as the pain is manageable, I'm off the meds, usually within a day or two of whatever it was that made me need them this time happened, be it broken bone, 4xWisdom teeth extraction, gall bladder removal, etc.  Except last time when I went almost two weeks on Lortab.  I tried to back off it every day after the first week, but still having drainage tubes under my skin which itself had been peeled off of a quarter of my skull then stretched back and stitched together to cover a half-inch stripe that was missing (used to reconstruct my nose) was just too much misery.  :ye_gods:  That was part of my purgatory for having had too much fun outside during my year in Australia under the ozone hole when it was at its worst in the early 90's.

Talking about pain though, I'm wondering if people generally become more resistant to pain or more susceptible to it as they experience it over a lifetime?  The doctors around here go through this routine where you are supposed to describe how your pain feels on a scale of 0-10.  Well, having passed out from pain once when I blew out my knee, I figure I haven't since experienced a 10 as I haven't passed out from it since.  But the past couple of trips to the hospital have each forced me to recalibrate my scale because what I was experiencing was worse than what I had previously thought would be a 10.

Drixoral was the best OTC drug for my allergies/runny/stuffy nose.  THE BEST.  I would go from not being able to breathe to being able to track flying birds by scent.   Side effect was drowsiness.  Small price to pay, and taking one before bed would give me a great night of sleep.  Much better than constantly waking up to flip sides in order to switch which nostril would clear.

One day I bought some and in idle conversation I was told how a person was no longer allowed to buy more than 4 boxes at a time.  I should have seen that as a sign of things to come.  Next thing I know Drixoral is hidden away behind the pharmacy counter and I had to fill out a form and have my driver's license scanned to buy a box.  Shortly after that Drixoral was no longer being sold. 

I was offered Claritin instead, which I find lacking.  I miss you Drixoral.

Up until a few months ago, I was pretty majorly overweight. So, I became diabetic with high blood pressure and cholesterol. I took:

Janumet for the diabetes
Trilipix for the cholesterol
Aspirin for the high blood pressure

I've since lost over 100 pounds though and don't need any medicine at the moment.  :awesome_for_real:

Yeah link works fine. You'd have been better served if it hadn't, that page is full of bullshit. The Weston A. Price foundation website even has a section on Homeopathy with a sub-heading "Articles from great homeopaths such as.." (my emphasis).

There's no place for nutritionists and homeopaths in any intelligent discussion of drugs, medicine or science.

I've always been rather partial to cocaine.

As far as allergy meds go, I've settled on 12 hour Claritin D.  The 24 hour stuff drove me up the wall.  I couldn't sleep at all when I was on it.  Allegra was OK; I don't remember why I stopped taking that, but I did.  Zyrtec made me feel really odd and anxious.  There was another pill they put me on with the claritin for a while, but it also made me really anxious for whatever reason (wish I could remember, it primarily an asthma drug).   Nasal sprays I don't care to use regularly, they end up making me feel pilled.  I keep astelin/astepro around for when I have a really bad day.

I also do allergy shots, which I'm unsure I want to continue.  I feel better when I'm on them, but the current shots I'm getting are prone to reactions. My previous shots I was getting didn't really do much of anything.  My hands tend to itch after shots even when they reduced the strength.  A higher dose during allergy season produced bad reactions including a near trip to the ER (I took benedryl and toughed it out, which was pretty much retarded on my part.  I don't recommend making a judgement call on "well, my throat is only a little swollen, I bet it won't get worse").  The couple hours of being uncomfortable every 2 weeks seems to be a fair trade over how bad my allergies can get even when on a ton of meds. 

As for morphine.. morphine was my best friend when I had major back surgery.  They tried to put me on something else at first, but it wasn't doing enough for the pain (4 vertebrae fused and a rib taken out). I have a pretty high pain threshhold as I've broken my leg twice and have had severe back problems (not too bad now) since I was 14-15.  I think it was a synthetic morphine.  Morphine worked well enough though. Largish doses every 3 hours and the last half hour before the dose was pretty sketchy.   

I was on vicodin post surgery.  That was nice. I'd sit on the couch, watch HBO, take a pill, and wake up 3 hours later.  Once I was done with that, I didn't really bother with the Tylenol 3.  That stuff just replaces pain with feeling like shit.  I'll take the pain.

I don't take drugs, illicit or otherwise.

I know a fair amount about illicit drugs, but let's keep this out of politics.

PS: Legalize the weed.

That's wonderful news!  Congratulations and keep up the fight!

Yeah, I have a lot of respect when people faced with diabetes get their shit together. My best friend had the exact thing happen, he was put on some medication (probably what you were on) and told to fix his diet and lose weight. He did, and he's now medication-free and healthy. It's very inspiring, when my fiancee's best friend had the exact same thing happen two years ago and she was recently told she will be on insulin for life, because she didn't get her shit together.

Only unusual meds I've been on were Flexeril (cyclobenzaprine) when I had sciatica. Tiniest little pills I've ever taken, and they right fucked me up. Back issues are hard to notice when you are near comatose for 14 hours.

I picked up some melatonin while I was over in the US. It eliminated any jet-lag on the return trip. I'm not sure about making it routine because I feel that when I take it I sleep heavier than usual; although I haven't really tried it for long enough to be clear. I'll probably just reserve it for the occasional sleepless or insomniac nights.

I tried melatonin and I didn't really notice any real effect.

Given that I am from northern california I just kinda assumed this thread would head in a different direction.

Only prescription thing that made any impression on me was ritalin back in the day, that made me feel awful and very much *not myself*, I switched to Adderal and that was a much much gentler drug.  These days the only things i get crazy with is advil and green tea.  Though now and then when I am visiting people in the Humboldt area... :thumbs_up: (closest thing to an "oh far out man" emoticon)

Actually, as long as Nebu is reading this thread, I would very much like to hear an informed opinion from someone I think is trustworthy about just how trustworthy pharmaceutical advice from contemporary physicians is, in general. I've gotten to the point where I honestly don't feel I can trust my own doctor in several respects, but especially her prescriptions. Not only is she inclined to prescribe what are effectively life-long drug regimens (in my case, the first time I reported acid reflux and asthma, she immediately wanted me on regular medication for the indefinite future, without discussing side effects, necessity for treatment, or any non-pharma strategies for mitigation) but several times when I've been in her office, I've seen pharma reps waiting alongside the patients. This isn't just her, though, I think it's pretty much the entire health system that my employer plan gives me access to. As an academic, I'm also very aware of how seriously aggressive pharma companies have gotten about controlling drug trials, controlling academic publications that address their products, and feeding a lot of medical professionals some major compensation money outside of their salaries & standard research grant funding, especially with psychiatric medicines.

But I don't want to be one of these paranoid idiots running around thinking everything is compromised, or that everyone is in on some monolithic conspiracy. I just am trying to figure out how to make informed decisions in an environment where informed decisions seem to me to be harder and harder to come by.

Simply stated; general practice physicians will prescribe a regiment that works for the greatest majority of patients based on their limited pharmacological subset.   The best recommendation that I can give you is to a) get a second and third opinion if you can afford it and if you still are unsure about the course of treatment, b) seek the advice of a specialist.  

I'm no clinical authority, but I can tell you that most front line physicians (general practitioners) have VERY limited pharmacology skills.  They often rely on the advice of reps and colleagues for their pharmaceutical knowledge.  I have found very few GP's that can answer my entry level pharmacy questions and often end up telling them what I want prescribed for me.  Fortunately for me I rarely need a prescription.  

With your background, sites like www.rxlist.com or if you can get access www.factsandcomparisons.com are wonderful resources.



Note: I'll do my best to check this thread daily.  My expertise is primarily oncology and infectious disease, but I have taught CNS agents (pain, neuro/psych agents, etc.) as well.

There was a pretty interesting interview on Fresh Air last month (http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=13&prgDate=07-13-2010) on a similar topic, although it was talking specifically about psychiatric prescriptions. The interview is with a doctor who went around with the pharma reps to give the medical rundown to the doctors, before he decided he was doing something unethical.

I'm curious about injected localized pain medications.

My dentist has been in the process of repairing several old amalgam metal tooth filings with composite resin fillings that are tooth colored.  This work has been generally preceded by injections of Lidocain directly under the tooth and in the back of the jaw.

However I'm finding that at least three injections are necessary, and take a very long time to 'take effect'.  The last time I waited for two hours until my lower jaw was numb, and the drill into the nerve was like being tortured.  He ended up directly injecting into the jaw bone which was interesting but seemed to work.

Anyone know of other injectable pain medications (or other dental techniques) that I could recommend he try for next time?  He said I had a very think jaw bone which makes it difficult for the liquid to reach the nerves in the center of the bone.

Thanks. Useful.

My only suggestions would be to a) inform your dentist/oral surgeon that this is the case (most will just give additional injections or increased volume per injection) or b) request an additional agent be applied (nitrous or perhaps a dissociative/sedative) if the dentist has the training or approval for their use.

The FDA has it prescribed for narcolepsy, shift work sleep disorder, and sleep apnea. It's prescribed off label for a lot of shit...anything related to excess fatigue basically. Due to some retarded shenanigans that the manufacturer, Cephalon, is being sued/investigated for its really fucking expensive in the US as there is no generic. You generally can't get insurance companies to foot the bill unless you have one of the three things the FDA expressly approved it for, despite it being a lifesaver for a broad swath of fatigue related issues. It can be purchased from the overseas pharmacies that love to spam the shit out of you with Viagra emails for like $1.50 a pop give or take. There's a few generic manufacturers of it overseas, Sun Pharmaceuticals in India being the most common. They sell it under the brand name Modalert.

I have something very similar. My roots to my teeth are extremely long. From what my oral surgeon was telling me, this means that the nerve also runs deeper which explains my torment as a child when I would get fillings and still complain about it hurting. Dentist never believed me and it was my mother's family dentist so I was stuck. Needless to say, each tooth is getting canal'd now - when I can pay for it. As long as I inform the dentist and he verifies from the xrays that I am not batshit crazy, they usually do a four shot with topicals. Funny thing though, I rarely if ever get soreness or pain afterward, even on an extraction. Advil is really all I need, so I use the vicodin for extracurriculars.

Imitrix makes my plane migraines go away.  :heart:

I took atenolol for my Pill-induced high blood pressure. It made me sleepy as hell for the first week I was on it. I dropped the Pill and my blood pressure went right back to normal, so that was nice. PROBABLY unrelated, but I got off serotonin for THE SADS after ditching the Pill too. My periods suck ass off the Pill though. It annoying! >:(

I use Zyrtec for allergies at it works pretty well. I also take PROVENTIL (alburterol) for my asthma, though I don't have attacks that often. And let me tell you. I understand why they changed the inhaler to something more enviromentally friendly. I am totally cool with that in theory. But the new inhalers suck. They suck a lot.

Yes they do.  My old stash of pre-ban inhalers finally ran out and I can tell the difference.  I am just so glad I am not dependent on them anymore like I was 20 years ago.  The biggest thing I noticed right away was all of the generic prescriptions got canned because new patents were granted so it's another 5-6 years before the generic $4 inhalers become available on my plan and I'm stuck with name brand for now.

And I hate taking drugs, but when you have problems you have to take them!  And I've done what Nebu said when I went to a brand new doctor earlier this year.  I said "I'm on X, Y, and Z, and they are working just fine.  Please do not put me on the 'let's experiment with drugs A, B, and C instead!' regimen" and he was very understanding, despite not being a subject matter expert on all of them.

I only have one good inhaler left and I am totally dreading when that runs out. I need the satisfying "shhhk" sound & inhaler taste to feel confident I actually dosed myself. The new inhalers do this weak-ass little "fff" and half the time I can't even tell if it actually shot the medicine out or not. ><

It didn't occur to me why my refill switched back to a name brand with the new inhaler design. Man, that is stupid.

The only drug I take is Ibuprofen, for my Migrainelike headaches.

I hate taking even those, but there isn't always the option to crawl into bed and go to sleep with the pillow over my head.

Probably an obvious question Sjofn, but have you tried different types of pill? I think my girlfriend went through 4 different ones over about 2 years before finding one that she tolerated.

Imitrex is horrible. The only good thing about it is the fact it makes me feel worse than the migraine I am having and thus negates that feeling for one worse. I can't even put into words how evil that drug is, gives me the feeling that I have been plugged into a light socket and irradiated all at the same time, for hours. No thanks. Even my backup Relpax doesn't do any better for the headache. Maybe I need to move to Cali... :awesome_for_real:

I've tried two or three, but just really don't have the patience to keep trying. My periods are evil, but not AS evil as they were when I first went on the Pill (ten years ago  :ye_gods: ) and frankly after being on it for so long, I don't mind taking a break from it, even though it's supposedly fine to be on it Forever. When I feel like screwing around with some new kinds, I will most likely go back on it, though!


My airplane migraines nearly blind me and make me feel like my entire head is going to explode, and they come on super quick with barely any warning. First time I got one I was sure I was having a brain aneurysm and about to die. That said, now that you've mentioned it, Imitrex does give me this weird "brain on fire" sensation for about an hour. I also feel uncoordinated and a little stupid. Oh, and I lose my sense of taste (wtf?). I forget the name of the other migraine shit I took, but the side effects were pretty much the same (including the loss of sense of taste, what the hellllll), so I haven't bothered to ask if there's something else I should try.

Care to elaborate, I may be needing to go on one of these soon.

While it certainly isn't localized I am pretty sure they hooked me up to some sort of sodium pentathol drip when I had my wisdom teeth out.  This was without a doubt the single greatest drug related experience of my life, 20 years later I still can not hear the word drug with out immediately thinking of it.

On a side note, I've been having some neck problems lately and my dad let me steal some little white pill he said was the equivalent of taking 12 motrin, that was some pretty good shit as far as anti-inflammatory/pain relief goes (I was completely without discomfort for the next 36 hours).

Lots of different types, lots of side-effects (http://www.blood-pressure-updates.com/bp/hypertension-treatment/treating-hypertension/anti-hypertensive-medications-and-side-effects.htm).

Multiple therapy (i.e. taking more than 1 kind of antihypertensive drug) is vastly more effective than single-drug therapy but of course you get multiple side-effects too. Compliance is a serious problem with multi-drug treatment of hypertension for this very reason.

Just remember, the side-effects won't kill you. Hypertension will.

What I always found interesting was that introductory pharmacology preaches the avoidance of multiple antihypertensives.  Reality dictates the opposite.  I love to dig up old textbooks that state that the use of a calcium channel blocker with a beta blocker as being dangerous.  It's a nice way to demonstrate that practice can differ greatly from textbook. 

I have been taking Lisinopril for hypertension and it's worked wonderfully with no side effects.  From what I understand (in my layman terminology), it's an ACE inhibitor (reduces the levels of enzymes that constrict the blood vessels) in combination with a diuretic (something that causes your kidneys to extract more water from your blood). 

It was amazing how quickly this medication worked:  I was routinely at 150/80 and within a few days my blood pressure dropped down to 125/70.

ah found the name of the anti-inflammatory that ate motrins lunch: Meloxicam

What I always wondered was that how much of normal things like high blood pressure are simply diet related, and how many are legitimate genetic or other random issues? Basically, people eating what they feel like and then using medicine to counteract the fact they are putting marginal poisons in their body?

Was going to start a new thread but figured it would fit in here.

I smoke between 1-2 parliment light's a day. Sometimes none, and go for extended periods (months) without a single cigarette. It depends on my environment. I'm relatively young, pre-25 and would like some straight up facts about smoking. I googled it and everything either used bold font to impress upon me the cancer's I can contract or used a type of scare tactics to tell me things I already know. Is there a link to straight up facts about death rates among young smokers? How often they smoked? Types of cancer those smokers contracted?

We all know grandpa's who smoked their whole lives and died of old age, I just want some kind of factual layout. 

I don't think you're going to find too much out there in the way of "young smokers dying young" because cigarettes usually take many years for their damage to result in death related to smoking issues.  And of course it all depends on how old you are, how much you actually smoked, random factors, etc.  Although I am interested to see said studies if they exist, because all I've ever seen has been in the matter of "smoke 1-2/day or less for 30 years eventually did cause cancer" type results that the news media loves to use.

Not me.  I had only one grandparent who smoked, and he died 22 years ago of cancer.  All of my other grandparents are still around.

A friend of mine recently had a stroke and required brain surgery.  He's in his early 50s and has smoked on and off for a good chunk of his life.  Luckily he seems to be recovering about as well as can be expected, but he's still hospitalized and the whole ordeal has been really scary.  It's got me worried about my mom, who has a long history of smoking and is quickly coming up on the age where that's likely to start catching up with her.

That's just anecdotal, but I felt the need to point out that for every anecdote of "my grandpa smoked every day and lived to be eighty" there are dozens more who didn't make it out of their sixties.  

Try googling "smoking lifespan studies" or something if you want something more scientific; the results I'm seeing on Google indicate that you can expect to shave 10-20 years off your life expectancy depending on how early you start.  Here's a page that claims to narrow it down according to your specific habits. (http://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/tc/interactive-tool-how-does-smoking-affect-your-life-span-what-does-this-tool-measure)

Yeah, honestly it sounds like you're looking for something to read that is going to tell you what you're doing is OK or not really *that* dangerous or whatever. You're not going to find that kind of validation, though, not from any kind of reputable source.

And of course I have my share of anecdotal stories along the lines of Samwise's, including our former company president, who was a lifelong smoker and despite her extreme dedication to exercise and taking care of herself in pretty much every *other* way, was left in a coma after a stroke and eventually was taken off of life support.

Or our former CEO, who hadn't smoked for years himself AFAIK, who had to step down recently due to a diagnosis of lung cancer. (Possibly because he spent a lot of time around said former president smoking? Who knows.)

I would like to see rates of cancer in different smoking populations though. Not sure how you would construct your smoking categories, but something along the lines of 1-5 cigs/day, 6-15/day, 16-20...etc. Finding a sample with those categories, even enough to weight them against each other for comparison would be interesting, but at the same time would probably never get funded for the possible inferences to the conclusions. I used to smoke a pack a week which ratcheted up to a pack a day when I was in grad school. Smoked for a good 12 years and 5 years in grad school was my peak, however my usage varied greatly from none a week to  packs a week, to nothing for a few months. Always did wonder if constant smoking was worse and how much worse than varied or sporadic smoking.

Yeah, not me either.  One had emphyzema and a stroke while driving nearly killed himself and my grandmother.  Instead he lived like a quasi vegetable, in and out of consciousness, his body too well to die but to brain damaged to be functional for 2 years before dying of pneumonia.  He smoked between 5-10 a day.  The other grandfather contracted lymphoma 15 years after he stopped smoking his pipe and died of a complication from a minor surgery.  The complication was due to his lymphoma but I can't recall what it was.  He smoked his pipe for an hour after work and dinner.

Mom smoked since she was 18 but quit 18 years ago.  She's had breast cancer and pre-cancerous moles on her neck.  She'd smoked between 3 and 5 a day, but more often in social situations around other smokers.   I blame my adolescent asthma on her smoking habit, because when she stopped it began clearing up.  It went away entirely my first year in college when I spent only 5 days at her home.

You never had to sell me on "smoking does evil shit."  It was pretty apparent to me.

Basically, the rule I've learned to go by is: when you start a new medication, assume that ANYTHING that changes is due to the medication.  That really can be just about any bizarre unrelated thing you can think of, including but not limited to:
     waking up in the middle of the night when you never used to,
     finger/toe-nail discoloration,
     an annoying scratchy throat/dry cough that gets diagnosed as asthma or allergies or anything but a drug-induced side-effect (YEAH, I'M LOOKING AT YOU LISINOPRIL, YOU BASTARD!),
     having to pee more (or less often) or pee being a different color or odor (OK, the odor one was just asparagus),   :why_so_serious:
     seeing halos/rainbows around lights at night,
     new or aggravated joint pains,
     food tasting different/wrong,
     headaches,
     depression,
     becoming twitchy/anxious or hyperactive when you never were before,
     insomnia,
     feeling fatigued, lethargic or unusually sleepy during the day,
     various digestive disorders,
     nausea,
     swollen ankles,
     groggy for much longer than usual in the morning,
     various personality changes including increased or decreased happiness, anger, paranoia, etc,
     changes in hair color, brittleness, thinning, etc,
     ...

I or someone in my immediate family has experienced every single one of those side-effects (not all from hypertension meds though!) and many others.

I used to ignore the list of possible side-effects, figuring knowing about them would bias my perception of them.  Now I go the other way and think really hard about each and every listed side effect to understand exactly what my status with them has been before I start a new med, then monitor them for changes.  Prior to this approach I've lost many thousands of dollars in income due to lost work time (not to mention Dr. and pharmacy fees) due to the side effects of meds that I wasn't able to identify/diagnose quickly enough.  It's a pain in the butt to monitor this stuff and educate yourself, but doctors these days can't be bothered/don't have the time/lack the knowledge/lack the tools to keep up with every single med given to every single patient and all the possible individual side-effects much less interactions.  If you want good treatment, you will have to be a whole lot more involved than just blindly obeying the professionals. 

The good news is there are lots and lots of blood pressure meds out there to choose from.  Figuring out which ones will work for you is still going to be a primitive matter of trial and error. The bit about using two or three meds to manage your blood pressure is true.  But start just one at a time and give it two weeks before starting another, monitoring all the while for any changes.  And keep monitoring for as long as you take them.  Some of the more subtle side effects (especially psychological) can take months to become apparent.

Technologically, it would be relatively simple to set up a computerized system with every known drug, its approved uses, known side-effects and interactions, etc, add in all your personal medical history, and track the before and after of each treatment you get put on.  When you show up with a new ailment, the Dr would input your symptoms and the system could cough up a list of possible causes (including the meds you are already on), suggestions for narrowing the possibilities, treatment options, etc.  But still leave the decisions to the Dr.  Then when the Dr decides on a treatment, that would also be entered so the system can flag if there are any counter-indications he missed due to your medical history, drug-interactions or whatnot.  And then the next time you show up and present with a new set of symptoms, those also would be entered as well as the results of the previous treatments & etc. Followup calls would need to be made to record the results of the treatments even if you never return to that Dr, so the data could still be entered into the database.  Connect that data (anonymously) to a regional database that can watch for signs of epidemics and catch them early on, plus prompt the various Dr's in that area who have patients that present with identical symptoms with the treatments that have worked best for the particular version of flu or whatever which is in your area.  Integrate those regional databases with a national database that accumulates statistical information about what treatment was tried and with what result, cross referenced with blood type, medical history, gender, race, diet, environment and everything else that might be a factor and then, THEN we might start learning just what the hell all these chemicals we are ingesting in the name of healthcare are REALLY doing for/to us.  And then we might start getting better treatment than the usual "here's three prescriptions.  Try them out and let me know if one of them works!"  Or at least maybe one of the three would actually work without making something else worse!

Ain't gonna happen in the good ole USofA for awhile though because there is no profit in it (except for the patients), and it would cost a lot to implement.  Not the databases themselves, which would be relatively straightforward, but the data entry, having someone in the Dr's office (obviously the Dr won't be doing this) asking a bazillion questions and entering all the answers into the system, not just on your first visit but on every visit.  Add to that the resistance of Dr's to having a computer "tell them what to do" no matter how much it would help them practice better medicine. 

oops, sorry.  /rant off

My grandfather smoked half a pack a day all his life.  My grandmother died of lung cancer when I was 7, emotionally scarring me for life.  My grandfather died another 9 years later at 76.  He had emphysema and the last few years of his life weren't that pleasant.  The oxygen bottle helped a little.

Basically, it could affect you or not.  What we do know is smoking increases your chances of having a problem.  Until you're dead or have that problem which is exacerbated because of it, you won't know how the smoking affects you.  Like sex, abstinence will keep you safe, but if you're going to indulge, moderation and smarts can at least mitigate the effects.

Conversely, my paternal grandpa smoked a pipe from 11 to 92. He died of old age. My nana didn't smoke as far as I know, but died of some form of organ cancer (but definitely not lung) when I was 8. Both my maternal grandparents smoked like chimneys up till late middle-age; grandma's still alive but suffered a stroke 2 years ago, and my grandad died from an MRSA after successful surgery to remove a tumor on his spine. I don't think there was any plausible smoking-caused link made between either cancer or stroke in their cases.

I had a fun trip when I had my wisdom teeth out also.  I'd had a real bad experience with a root canal as an adolescent that was still causing occasional nightmares at the time (I was 30 by then).  So I told them I wasn't afraid of them working on me, I just didn't want to be awake for or remember it.  But I think they misunderstood because they treated me like I was panicked about the whole thing and doped me up real good.  In addition to the sodium pentathol drip, they had me take valium before going to the office and gave me nitrous as soon as I was in the chair.  I had a blast, both before and after the blackout period.  Leaving the surgery I literally felt like I was a kite flying high in the sky, but flying free like a released helium balloon rather than tethered to a string. Then I slept for two days waking up only to take my next demarol and went back to work the day after that as if nothing had happened.

New thread idea : Wisdom Tooth Extraction Trip Reports.

For the record, mine mirrors yours to a fair extent.   :grin:

The doctor told me when I had my issues with it that it all went hand in hand with being diabetic. That diabetes, high cholesterol, and high blood pressure almost always went together. So, in my case, it definitely was diet related. I bet a healthy lifestyle would keep nearly everyone from having that issue. I'm no doctor though.

I'm working on losing weight atm because my doctor warned me that my blood pressure and cholesterol were "borderline", and that it's probably mostly due to being overweight.  I've been wanting to slim down for a while now anyway, but my survival instinct is proving a much better motivator than ill-fitting jeans have in the past.  And I REALLY hate having to take meds, so avoiding the need for blood pressure medication or whatever is another good incentive.

I have all my wisdom teeth, except the one that didn't grow in. I think Jesus stole it. I wrote a song about it, a country number called Jesus Stole My Wisdom Tooth (I am a dumbass now).

Anyway, root canals. I've found my miracle oral surgeon, in and out with just some local, didn't feel a thing and went directly back to work for the rest of the day. He called me that night to make sure I was ok, I didn't feel a thing. He told me to take a couple otc (aspirin or ibuprofin, I forget) just in case. I did, because he's a doc and whatnot, but didn't even need it. I was amazed. I have amazing specialists...but I can't find a GP to save my life (hopefully not literally).

On the topic of nitrous: I used to go to my father's wacky dentist, some crazy old guy who worked out of the apartment over an ice cream shop (always got a free ice cream). He always used nitrous, he'd put 'snoopy goggles and scarf' on you and tell you that you were going to fly (like snoopy vs the red baron, it was the early 70s). You would then trip for however long he took, I still remember some of those wild rides. He also had a buxom young assistant (it was the early 70s). But he also liked to file molars flat, which my father swears by. In the long run, I do have to admit I have good teeth (according to my current dentist), which is amazing since I didn't go to a DDS from the late 80s until about 5 years ago when I finally got a cavity.

I have to have everything canal'd when I get the funds for it. I have bad teeth with funky root structures. My curse. That said, the three root canals I have had done were flawless considering I have an irrational fear of dentists. Each time I go now, I am more reassured. Getting teeth pulled however is still a horrifying event.

As for nitrous...I can't have. Even in small amounts I get violently ill and have an instant headache. I think its aversion from my first dentist who tried to give me nitrous and overdid it. I have yet to try the sedation thing since my insurance does not cover the pill and I have no one to drive me to and fro. Anyone do the sedation thing? I heard it's Halcyon - which I have first hand knowledge of, but not in that context.

This is an interesting thread.  I'm an orthodontist and also have an MD, which makes all of the topics strike me as a bit funny.  The give and take between the professions of dentistry and medicine is interesting, to say the least.  

To answer the above question, my advice would be to get a new dentist.  Lidocaine injection blocks given in dentistry typically fall into two groups- infiltration, meaning you expect it to diffuse through thin bone  and directly effect the nerves as they enter the tooth, and blocks, in which you directly place the lidocaine close to a large nerve branch.  Typically infiltration is only usable on the upper jaw, although it does work some on the lower jaw for children.  If someone is having difficulty getting numb, you should be getting a block of some sort and where we do those blocks the nerve is not in the bone-  thus the "thickness of your bone" should play little or no role in achieving anesthesia.

If you guys have any other dental questions, please feel free to fire them at me.  My general advice on choosing a dentist is as follows-  be very, very careful about who you choose.  Dentists are not like physicians.  Many simply sit in their office and never have their work looked at by peers, as a physician would in a hospital setting.  Specialists are generally safe as, unlike in medicine, most specialists are in the top 25% of their class.  If you are concerned, ask your specialist who a general dentist with a good reputation is.  They can usually point you in the right direction. 

Commentary on drugs-  I find it interesting now that we have a "drug" for everything.  I'm a bit suspicious of research in this field as it certainly would benefit the drug companies to have us all on a drug.  Having gone to medical school, I can tell you that most "front line physicians" have very limited knowledge of medicines or pharmacology, in general (echoing Nebu) and would go so far as to say that a grand majority have no idea what they are really doing.  Medical school graduates are woefully unprepared for real life doctoring because the breadth of their training is insane.  There is little actual training as to how to simply be a family doctor, something we need a lot of in this country. 

Commentary on smoking-  stop.  Yesterday.  You may not die from cancer, but you will smell like death to those around you and make you look 15-20 years older than you actually are after many years of use.  This doesn't even consider the money involved with simply having a habit.  If you need nicotine, use a smokeless tobacco.  The reports of cancer issues with this are largely overblown and some recent research suggests that the risk of cancer with snuff/chewing tobacco is no more than baseline.

I know I'm a bad person for not actually citing any studies here but I'm reduced to referring to a BBC Radio 4 programme I hear a few years ago where they discussed the effects of smoking. Whatever the study they were focusing on, it had examined health effects based on age and, as far as I remember, primarily on the effects of increasing amounts of smoking. The results were, as far as I can remember, that the largest increase in chances of developing health problems was between those who didn't smoke and those that smoked 1-2 a day. From then on chances went up at a smaller rate until it got to 1-2 packs a day and anything more produced a negligible increase in odds of dying. Sucks to hear it (especially since I still smoke a pipe from time to time) but if you're smoking a couple of cigarettes a day you're not that much healthier than someone who's on 4-5. You're certainly doing better but you're comparatively much worse than someone who isn't smoking at all.

On the topic of illicit drugs I've always found hallucinogenics fascinating, mostly due to trying magic mushrooms a few times when they were legal (before being made class A substances) and I'm curious whether there's much evidence regarding long term health effects related to those sorts of drugs. I was lucky enough not to have had a bad trip, though I've not had LSD or any of the others more famed for bad experiences, and I'm curious about how much of the stuff regarding LSD potentially destroying your mental well-being is related to anecdotal evidence (exaggerated or not) and sensationalist journalism versus actual evidence. Hell I know one guy who had a psychotic break from smoking weed but I don't think I'd class marijuana as a substance that will likely cause psychological harm. Also if there are any easy and legal hallucinogenic substances I'm always curious :awesome_for_real:

Wow, someone went there.   :awesome_for_real:


On long-term psychedelic usage - there are mixed reports as to whether they (like weed) can activate predispositions towards some types of mental illness (bipolar disorder and schizophrenia seem to be the main two here).  When in doubt, better to be safe than sorry.  Of course, there is always the potential for a "bad trip," but proper set, setting, and consulting someone experienced with them can normally obviate those.  Outside of that, general long-term functioning is not significantly impaired as long as you give yourself adequate time between sessions, which is 2 weeks for brain chemistry to return to baseline plus however long it takes you to "assimilate" the experience.  But that's the great thing about psychedelics - you generally don't want to do them right away again anyway.    :drill:

But yeah, the urban legends of "5 hits of LSD and you're legally insane" or "they cause genetic damage" are just that.

On your last item, Saliva Divinorum is still legal in most jurisdictions in the US.  Morning Glory seeds (buy organic so they're not coated with the pesticide that makes you fall sick or fall asleep) can also work in a pinch.  Outside of that, the "Analogue Act" took care of most fun legal (and even not-yet-discovered) psychedelics.  Grey-market-wise, there are also a variety of things you could refine yourself if are a do-it-yourselfer (DMT, HBRW seeds, etc.).

(edit to add : Dextromethorphan/DXM also works, if you enjoy dissociative anesthetics)

My nastiest smoking story (pack a day+ of marlboro red/gold 100's  for 15+ years), I quit about 4 and a half years ago and a year and a half ago when I started swimming I could taste cigarettes after a workout.  Basically that shit was stuck deep down in my lungs for 3 friggen years. 

My grandfather smoked 2 packs of camel non's a day for 60 years, then spent the last 5 years of his life breathing through a hole in his neck and fighting cancer.  You could say that he got away with it for 50+ years but then again I don't know too many non-smokers that walk around breathing through a hole in their throat and unable to talk.

The only thing I take with any kind of regularity is an over the counter sleeping pill when I have to get to bed earlier than normal. Don't like to though, about half the time I'll halfway wake up in the middle of the night just drenched in sweat, like I took a shower in my clothes.

Thanks Ghost, that was very helpful.  He ended up saying something along the lines of "I'm going to inject directly into the nerve of the tooth, however it's going to be sore as hell tomorrow".  Instead of giving injections into the back of my jaw, it was literally somewhere right below the tooth I believe.  This ended up working like a charm, and it did hurt like hell for a day....however it was nothing compared to the overwhelming feeling of a drill hitting the nerve sending you into spasms. ;)  This was in the lower jaw:  I've never had this problem on the teeth on the top.

It there a name for this technique, so that I can ask either him (or his replacement) to skip all of the other stuff and get directly to what works?

Most likely intraosseous injection.  Poke the needle through the bone.

Hi - long time lurker, rare poster. How goes it, f13 ?


I've found www.erowid.org to be an excellent resource in my study of psychoactives.

 

Have to share my extraction story. 

Just local anasthetic for a lower left molar, but when it was injected it felt strange.  Extraction went fine, but the Novocaine seemed to take forever to wear off.  My tongue was still half numb the next day, and 8 months later.  It finally started coming back and was fine again at about the 10 month mark.  I googled it and apparently nerve damage like that is not all that rare and sometimes people never get the feeling back.

Which is usually not the nerve getting better but just your body adjusting to the feeling of numbness.

I had something similar like this two times in my life.

Once I nearly cut of a tiny part of my left thumb while shredding cardboard boxes with a box cutter, the part is still slightly numb and I also lost some feeling on part of the skin just under my left nipple due to a zoster outbreak. The virus involved attaches to nerves in your body, that's why it can hurt so much it's also why you might even loose feeling where you have the outbreak.

Both areas are still numb but only to touch I don't generally feel it anymore.

I pinched a nerve in my leg a while back, which led to me not being able to raise my foot up from the ankle (meaning my toes would drag on the ground if I walked without lifting my knees up extra high).  Scary as fuck.  Luckily it fixed itself after a couple of months.

Having spent the last week taking it, yes, yes it is.  I went to my doc and got a prescription for it today, and holy fuck is it expensive.  Nuvigil is $324 for a 30 day supply, but it might be covered by my insurance if my doctor calls my insurance company and says the magic words, which would bring it down to $60.