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Title: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Hoax on October 23, 2009, 08:32:59 AM Building a machine for a friend, here's what I know:
-Budget is up to $1500 -Typically he's a MMO gamer, he'll play Borderlands but he's not much into fps. He'll play some PC rpg's if I really suggest them. -He doesn't do anything besides game, email, browse on his machine. Doesn't really even watch thing on his computer much besides I'm sure a bunch of porn -He'll be running dual monitors, which is annoying since I've never done that myself and I'm not sure if there is annoying stuff to watch out for Current build is as follows, but I'm looking for input. Sorry I'll get links in when I get back from classes. -i7-920 Bloomfield 2.66ghz -ASUS P6T x58 mobo -Corsair XMS3 3x2GB DDR3 1333 -XFX Radeon, I haven't been able to decide between 5770 and 4890, need to go read a few reviews. -SeaSonic M12 SS-700HM -WD Caviar Green 500GB -Windows 7 Home Premium Total cost w/ tax and shipping is coming out to under $1300 Questions: -Does he need i7? Should I be considering i5? I'd like the machine to last him 3-5 years and a mobo or cpu upgrade is out of the question. Any other upgrade is a-ok. But again he's been playing mostly DDO and EQ2... -Windows 7, am I ok with Home Premium? From the I Has thread it sounded like he doesn't need any of the pricier versions. -Video card, I'll go read the reviews myself but if anybody knows off hand where the sweet spot is in the sub $200 ATI's these days I'd love to hear it. I'm only fucking with XFX (brand loyalty) unless someone gives me a good reason to go another direction and I want a card with the full rear-exhaust fan not one of those shitty half enclosures. -He has tons of HD storage, is there a better option for the OS/game install drive for the machine? The 10k rpm drive was pricey and I didn't want to suggest it unless I can slim some costs out elsewhere. -Anyone got a case recommendation in the $125 or cheaper range on the egg? I spent too much for Lian Li on my personal machine 1+ yr ago and before that I've been burned by Antec twice and had one excellent experience so I'm done with those fuckers. Anything else is fair game. He doesn't need anything fancy at all, I'd need to check if he can fit a full tower but might be best to consider mid towers that can fit everything for now. Also it has to be black. TIA everyone, like I said I'll get some product links in there when I get home. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: WayAbvPar on October 23, 2009, 08:33:55 AM Why not slap in some extra RAM? It is cheap enough.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: fuser on October 23, 2009, 08:49:33 AM Questions: -Does he need i7? Should I be considering i5? I'd like the machine to last him 3-5 years and a mobo or cpu upgrade is out of the question. Any other upgrade is a-ok. But again he's been playing mostly DDO and EQ2... -Windows 7, am I ok with Home Premium? From the I Has thread it sounded like he doesn't need any of the pricier versions. -Video card, I'll go read the reviews myself but if anybody knows off hand where the sweet spot is in the sub $200 ATI's these days I'd love to hear it. I'm only fucking with XFX (brand loyalty) unless someone gives me a good reason to go another direction and I want a card with the full rear-exhaust fan not one of those shitty half enclosures. -He has tons of HD storage, is there a better option for the OS/game install drive for the machine? The 10k rpm drive was pricey and I didn't want to suggest it unless I can slim some costs out elsewhere. TIA everyone, like I said I'll get some product links in there when I get home. - I'd say go i5 and switch the money on a HDD. P55 chipset is really good from all accounts and you have some better memory options 2x2GB or 4x2GB. The lack of the third memory channel doesn't hamper it at all. EQ2 is pretty processor heavy but an i5 should be fine. - Windows 7 Home Premium is ok, long as your not looking for bitlocker/xp mode/join a domain/offline fines(keeping a local version of a network) etc your fine. - Regards to video card, what size of monitor is he gaming on? It seems the 5770 can keep up with the 5850 until you cross a pretty high resolution threshold. - Drop in an SSD instead of a Raptor, $280 for 80gb is crazy tho. If you can exist in 80gb nothing will give you the performance boost that a good SSD can Intel X25-M (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167016) (second gen with trim support). Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Pennilenko on October 23, 2009, 08:54:56 AM The machine in the OP will be fantastic, and it will be fast. Just go with it.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Sky on October 23, 2009, 09:07:28 AM Why not slap in some extra RAM? It is cheap enough. 6GB is decent, and watch RAM prices, they are a-rising. I was going to pimp miine out with another 4GB and the price went from $45 this spring to $85 for the same sticks (on the egg).EQ2 is very cpu-intensive, also likes a lot of vram. Not sure on good video cards, but make sure it's got a big slab of fast vram and at least a 256-bit memory controller. The 5770 only has a 128-bit, the 4890 has a 256-bit. I don't know if the nvidia 260 is any good (I'm happy with my 8800gtx and not up on the new cards), but it does feature a 448-bit interface at $180 (the 295 has a double 448-bit controller, but is $$$). Over the years I've found the width of the memory controller has made a HUGE difference, I've had at least 256-bit since the radeon 9800 pro. Cases, I've been happy with my Antec p180, but you've got to watch cable length because they put the psu in a separate bottom chamber...need long cables for the PSU. Home Premium unless you need XP mode or domain joining. HDD, I just put 7 on a WD black 500GB. Too soon to tell, until I get it jammed full of crap and get gaming on it, but it seems zippy. My XP drive is a 10k drive, so any performance issues that are tangible should be...err...tangible. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Miguel on October 23, 2009, 10:46:32 AM Quote -WD Caviar Green 500GB WD Black 1TB - WD1001FALS - 32MB cache, 7200 RPM....tasty. I'm liking the i7-920 Bloomfield Quad cores...I can't see going wrong with one. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: AutomaticZen on October 23, 2009, 10:51:23 AM You can drop down to i5 and get a better video card if he's just gaming.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Kageh on October 23, 2009, 11:03:34 AM I'd say at this point, P55 chipset/Socket 1156/Lynnfield architecture gives you the most bang for the buck in the high-end segment. Performance is comparable with the i7s for gaming, multi-threading is available, and the Turbo mechanic works a lot better on the Lynnfields. Although it isn't that efficient in triggering and if you overclock, you'll probably turn it off anyway.
Do you plan to overclock at all? I read the Lynnfields make very good OC processors. Bloomfields are good too, but heat up a lot more. I'm using an i7 myself, am very happy with gaming performance. ATI, I'd definitely buy a 5-series card. No need to go last-gen for such a build. Something else I'd recommend, considering the budget and computer class: Buy a second drive and set-up a raid array. You can do a matrix raid array with ICH10R, meaning you can make a Raid 1 partition for data and a Raid 0 for games with the same two drives. It won't set you back too much money-wise, and it improves performance noticeably, while also providing "permanent back-up". I'd also recommend the caviar black instead of the green. Green is something of a server/media hub/NAS thing to me. A gamer will actually make good use of a fast hard disk. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Sky on October 23, 2009, 11:07:48 AM Yeah, the green is more of an htpc thing, isn't it? Low power draw, lower performance, blue is regular draw/performance and black is high draw/performance. For gaming, go black.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Ingmar on October 23, 2009, 11:08:41 AM Make sure you get the 64 bit Windows 7 since you're over the cap (you probably know this given its f13 but I run into people all the time who screw that up so just in case...)
And yeah Home Premium should cover everything he'd need it sounds like. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Kageh on October 23, 2009, 11:15:32 AM Yeah, the green is more of an htpc thing, isn't it? Low power draw, lower performance, blue is regular draw/performance and black is high draw/performance. For gaming, go black. Yes, although in all fairness I have to say they make them really fast nowadays (I think we're already second or third-gen with the "green" variants at most manufacturers), and they reach good transfer speeds - 75 MB/s reads are probably possible, not too bad for a "green" drive. But, if you build a gamer PC, you want performance first and foremost, so why settle for second best? Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Goreschach on October 23, 2009, 12:10:22 PM At 1500, you should pick up an ssd. Just do some research on anandtech to make sure you aren't getting one with a jmicron controller.
Seconding drop the i7 for i5 and go with a 5000 series gpu as well. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Ingmar on October 23, 2009, 12:41:00 PM I wouldn't recommend an SSD yet, the price/GB still blows and they only get up to the 256 GB range at the moment. And those are not cheap.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: caladein on October 23, 2009, 01:01:11 PM If dual monitors are in the budget (versus something they already have), I really wouldn't worry about grabbing an SSD right now.
You'll eventually want to stick an SSD in there once stable TRIM-supporting firmwares start to ship so a quieter and cheaper drive like the Green drives make sense. The other hard drive note I'd make is: none of the WD "color" drives are going to do amazingly well in a RAID. I have an Antec Solo (essentially the right-side-up version of Sky's P180) and I've been super-pleased with it. I haven't used the suspension mounts but the silicon grommets basically eliminate HDD noise from my WD Green 1TB. I'll echo the statements: go for Core i5 and Windows 7 Home Premium is all you likely need. As for dual-monitors, any modern graphics card will handle everything. If he'll only be gaming on one monitor at a time, there's one or two tweaks to make and even then they're minor. The only suggestion I'd make is to pick up DisplayFusion (http://www.binaryfortress.com/displayfusion/). Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Trippy on October 23, 2009, 01:28:18 PM For most gamers the i5 (Lynnfield) is the better value.
The Bloomfield CPUs are better for gamers if you going with multiple video cards or you plan on overclocking (probably). Lynnfield systems are limited to x8/x8 for dual video cards, while the X58 chipset supports x16/x16 or x8/x8/x8/x8 (for quad). This does make a difference in certain games at certain resolutions/settings. With Bloomfield the PCIe controller is a separate chip (the above mentioned X58) so you can overclock the two independently while on Lynnfield the PCIe controller is on the CPU die so their speeds are tied together. On the flip side graphics performance on the Lynnfield is probably slightly faster with a single video card compared to a comparable Bloomfield as there's slightly less latency because the PCIe controller is on the same die. The i5 doesn't support Hyper-Threading but that's not important in most applications. As mentioned above "Turbo" mode works a lot better on the Lynnfields. The memory differences between the Bloomfield (triple channel) and Lynnfield (dual channel but higher bandwidth per channel) is kind of a toss up. If you've stressed >=3 cores with memory intensive applications you'll get better performance from Bloomfield but otherwise there's no real difference in memory performance in real-world applications. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Hoax on October 23, 2009, 02:19:49 PM Little more detail about the end user on this one.
He runs a widescreen monitor for gaming and as primary display, 1900x1200 blahblah the 2nd monitor is not widescreen. I think its just the monitor he replaced when he bought the WS and now he wants to use both. I haven't spent any time thinking about this because every modern vga has 2xDVI outputs so who cares? c/d? He's currently playing EQ2 and DDO. He played WoW, PotBS, EQ2, GW, EQ1 & SB before those. So lets assume he may play GW2, NWNonline & APB + any other fantasy MMO that gets good buzz. He loves anything that is DnD based and vanilla fantasy trappings more then he should. He's not going to play tech demo fps games but I'd like him to be able to run the fuck out of Borderlands, Diablo3 & APB. It'd be ideal if he can run the AoC of two years into the future well, that'd be a good baseline. He doesn't give a fuck about AA or anything, not a gfx snob but wants to run at near max resolution with 60+ fps and fast load times. I'm going to have to build it for him so there will be no overclock. *** I'm down to 3 points for the i7 build: 1. VGA, I need to go read some reviews, anyone got a good round up link for the current $150-300 cards? 2. HD, I'm not sold on SSD yet, your paying too damn much and that is an easy upgrade down the road when/if he decides he wants it. He will never bother. The only thing he ever upgrades on this machine is a vga I recommend in 2-3 years. I would welcome thoughts on this though and recommendations. My bad about the green, I forgot about the colors and that was the last thing I added before I rushed out the door. Also what about the WD 10k rpm drives, worth it or not? 3. Case, I really don't know what cases to look at in the sub $150 range. He liked the cheapo Coolermaster case I linked to him to give him a look at the price bracket so I think he's easy to please in this regard. *** I'm liking the sound of the i5 build more and more but on the flip side, I went Quad over Duo a year ago for my own machine because I'm a more educated but similar user in terms of how much effort I want to put into tweaking/upgrading. I want to do some research and price out a i5 build to give him the option and I've said I would do so. Once I've got it I'll post it here. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Lt.Dan on October 23, 2009, 02:59:10 PM there's a good review of the 5770 cards on anandtech. The summary is that you get better fps from older card like 4870 or gtx260 but get dx11 from the newer card
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: lac on October 23, 2009, 03:01:43 PM I have a WD Velociraptor 300gb on which I run my OS. While it's a great HD there are many HD's out there who will give you a lot more storage for less money and only a small performance loss. You'd probably be better off with a good performing 1tb disk.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Hoax on October 23, 2009, 03:11:24 PM Storage is really immaterial, except when we're talking about under 250gb on one of these SSDs though even with those you could go OS + a MMO install and be fine. Speed is what matters but I'm not going to pay out the nose for some bleeding edge tech (SSD) when an upgrade/replacement is so easy and will cost so much less in 18 months.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: caladein on October 23, 2009, 03:12:53 PM 2. You're in a bit of a tough place because Intel/Indilinx SSDs blow the Raptors out of the water. That said, MMO installs are pretty large so I doubt he'd be able to fit OS+applications into an 80GB Intel X25-M (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167016) and the 160GB one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167017) will blow up your budget. I would just go with a good WD Black 1TB and wait for SSDs to get into reasonable territory (and for TRIM firmwares to get the kinks worked out of them).
3. I'd recommend the Antec P183 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129061) especially if you have some system-building experience and aren't planning on adding another double-wide graphics card. If either of those aren't true, the Antec 902 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129058) is kinda neat looking Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Polysorbate80 on October 23, 2009, 03:22:19 PM If either of those aren't true, the Antec 902 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129058) is kinda neat looking and has the PSU up top. Power supply on the bottom, actually. My new gaming rig should be complete this afternoon, this is the case that was spec'd for it. Despite everything I'm told, I can't help worrying that it's going to sound like a turboprop passenger plane parked on my desktop. I'll let you know tomorrow :P Edit: It actually is pretty dang quiet. Heavy as hell though. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: AutomaticZen on October 23, 2009, 03:46:48 PM I'm actually waiting for this year's NVIDIA refresh before I pull the trigger on a new box.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Trippy on October 23, 2009, 03:57:11 PM 1. VGA, I need to go read some reviews, anyone got a good round up link for the current $150-300 cards? Look for reviews of the ATI 5770 if you want to see benchmarks at the low end of your range and reviews for the ATI 5850 for the high end.E.g.: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3658 http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3650 Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Hoax on October 23, 2009, 06:02:04 PM -I'm really not a fan of Antec, I got one amazing case from them and otherwise have had 2 bad experiences. As they try to make shit "easier" for users it has gotten cheaper looking and cheaper feeling imo.
-Fuck SSD, too much for this build would be taking money away from something else. I'm happy to leave HD as a future upgrade 1yr+ down the line. So I'm thinking This WD Black (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136320) and this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136296) would be the top of the line HD I'd be willing to spend money on but I think people are going to say not worth it? -I'm going to read the VGA links, thanks for those, gives me a place to start besides google. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Kageh on October 23, 2009, 06:16:07 PM Case: Silverstone Raven or Raven 2 is apparently pretty good, should be in your price range, and it has a very intriguing and promising cooling concept (everything is rotated 90° clockwise and the heat can simply just ascend out of the computer, has been getting very good reviews on the sites that I frequent - if I were to build something at the moment, I'd definitely get one of those).
Are you considering used ones? $150 can buy you a used top of the line Lian Li here in EU and once you get one of those, you usually never look back. Other cases that are good value for the money: Lancool (the "affordable" Lian Li brand) K7/K58, Cooler Master HAF 932/922, Xigmatek Midgard (last one is "cheapo" priced but you get lots of features). Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: caladein on October 23, 2009, 06:17:25 PM The Black is good, but if you're gonna go with a fast system drive and a large secondary drive, the Greens are solid, quiet, and a touch cheaper (go for the 1TB man :drill:).
I have a lot of problems with the Raptors, not just vis-a-vis SSDs but also their noise is annoying as fuck. If you have experience with them, go for it. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Hoax on October 23, 2009, 07:19:32 PM The deal is he has the large secondary drives, that I don't need to worry about the budget only includes a fast system drive for OS + a game install or two. I love WD, I have found that HD noise is usually a case issue not a HD issue and for my friend whose comp is in his office he told me not to worry too much about noise. He's almost always wearing head phones anyways so I'm not worried about it at all.
I'll take a look at those case recommends, thanks a ton for that, I fucking hate case shopping. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Mosesandstick on October 24, 2009, 11:02:54 AM I'm thinking of a new build and since everyone's discussing...
Is there anything I should do differently if photoediting is a huge priority? i.e. CS4 gogogogo... Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Lantyssa on October 24, 2009, 11:12:48 AM My Coolermaster Mystique is a good case. Little tight inside, but that's my only complaint. I helped a friend assemble her system and she had gotten another Coolermaster model, with lots of room and she's been happy with it.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: AutomaticZen on October 24, 2009, 11:18:27 AM I'm thinking of a new build and since everyone's discussing... Is there anything I should do differently if photoediting is a huge priority? i.e. CS4 gogogogo... The i5 750 and the i7 920 perform about the same in Photoshop. (http://media.bestofmicro.com/M/7/222415/original/Photoshop%20CS4.png) After that it's just a matter of if you want to mess with triple channel memory. I'd stick with the 1156 socket, and choose either an i5 or i7. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Rishathra on October 24, 2009, 01:04:38 PM My Coolermaster Mystique is a good case. Little tight inside, but that's my only complaint. I helped a friend assemble her system and she had gotten another Coolermaster model, with lots of room and she's been happy with it. Coolermaster is a good way to go. I recently built a new system using this - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119194 - and it's been fantastic. Really roomy, easy installs. The PSU is on the bottom, but the bottom panel is a screen so you install it upside down so it pulls in outside air. Lots of other nice little details like that.Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: ghost on October 24, 2009, 01:31:42 PM Can't wait to see the uber porn-build :awesome_for_real:
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Salamok on October 24, 2009, 02:50:16 PM I picked up this case for $80 and love it: coolermaster_sileo500 (http://www.silentpcreview.com/coolermaster_sileo500), Don't forget a Zalman Aftermarket CPU fan.
I'd also nix the SSD for this guy, pretty sure the flash used is still only good for 10k writes per cell, depending on usage and drive chosen that may or may not last 5 years. I personally can't wait to drop an SSD drive in my machine but if I was building for someone else i'd pass. If memory is cheap right now double up to 12gig and go for 64bit w7. I could have doubled the memory on my current pc for an extra $50 at build time, now that number is at $100. Mine is ddr2 though, my guess is ddr3 prices haven't hit bottom yet. Occasionally XP can be confusing about dual monitors as you waste time poking around trying to get them set how you want them. The only thing I had to do with the w7 install was swap left and right. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: OcellotJenkins on October 25, 2009, 07:23:05 AM I picked up this case for $80 and love it: coolermaster_sileo500 (http://www.silentpcreview.com/coolermaster_sileo500), Don't forget a Zalman Aftermarket CPU fan. Did you get this Zalman (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118046)? If so, is it a tight fit in that case? Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Mosesandstick on October 25, 2009, 10:51:01 AM God damn, it's been 6 years since I built my last computer and I feel as if I don't know anything anymore.
DDR3 or DDR2? And how many sticks? Especially in regards to using an i5 vs. an i7 with dual vs. triple channel. The general feeling I'm getting is that it' better to go with the i5 and probably go with 4 x 2gb? Any guidelines on how fast the RAM should be? Is there anything more than some marginal benefit in faster RAM? Ninja edit: Nevermind re-read the anandtech article... 5850 it is... Would it also be a good idea to go ahead with getting a standard HD now and buying an SSD when they're cheaper? I don't mind the hassle of wiping everything and upgrading, I typically do it once a year anyway. :uhrr: :uhrr: :uhrr: Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: AutomaticZen on October 25, 2009, 11:58:39 AM DDR3 or DDR2?
DDR3 And how many sticks? Especially in regards to using an i5 vs. an i7 with dual vs. triple channel. The general feeling I'm getting is that it' better to go with the i5 and probably go with 4 x 2gb? I generally go with 6 GB (personal choice, 4 GB is fine if you're going dual channel). In triple channel (for i7, socket 1366 boards) that means 3 sticks of 2 GB RAM. In dual channel (for i5/i7, 1156 socket boards) that's 2 sticks of 2 GB, and 2 sticks of 1 GB. The triple channel memory is cheaper by $10-20, but you'd lose the cost savings on CPU and motherboard. Cheap method: Go with dual channel, buy 4 GB (2x2Gb), and later on, buy another 2 or 4 GB. Any guidelines on how fast the RAM should be? Is there anything more than some marginal benefit in faster RAM? From Tom's Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/memory-scaling-i7,2325.html): Quote High End Memory Is Not Worth The Money DDR3 1600 is the most readily available speed of DDR3. You might be able to find some deals.The results are obvious: going from one memory speed to the next, e.g. from DDR3-1066 to 1333, does not provide major benefits. Even the replacement of slow DDR3-800 RAM by DDR3-1600 memory will mostly yield disappointing results. While the performance advantage is measurable, it is never noticeable. Exceptions, however, do exist. Compressing files with WinRAR is significantly quicker on fast, low latency DDR3-1600 RAM. Some applications, such as games, can at least take minor advantage of the upgraded memory horsepower. ... Memory Recommendation Knowing all of these results, it is obvious that highest speed DDR3 memory only makes sense for serious enthusiasts, or for those with unlimited budgets. Everyone else should focus on mainstream clock speeds of DDR3-1066 or DDR3-1333, and go for a trustworthy brand and the quickest timings their budget allows. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Sky on October 25, 2009, 12:13:36 PM Ninja edit: Nevermind re-read the anandtech article... 5850 it is... Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Salamok on October 25, 2009, 12:23:55 PM I picked up this case for $80 and love it: coolermaster_sileo500 (http://www.silentpcreview.com/coolermaster_sileo500), Don't forget a Zalman Aftermarket CPU fan. Did you get this Zalman (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118046)? If so, is it a tight fit in that case? Not sure which flavor of big ass Zalman I got but yeah it fits. The case isn't as silent as I would like it (most likely due to my power supply) but it is much less noisy than my last case. I also like the sleek business like exterior that does not look like a carnival ride. Mounting everything in the case was a joy (no sharp edges and mostly tool-less). Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Engels on October 25, 2009, 12:42:44 PM holy cthulu cabling, batman!
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Hoax on October 25, 2009, 05:25:27 PM Ok spoke with my friend and went over his options, talked about possible savings with him and he pretty much waved me off. So here's the final build that is only missing an aftermarket cpu cooler.
CoolerMaster 690 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137) SeaSonic Modular 700W (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151031) ASUS P6T X58 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131359) i7 920 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202) Corsair XMS3 3x2GB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145250) Windows 7 Home Premium 64 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116754) Western Digital Caviar Black 700GB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136283) XFX 4890 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150438) cd/dvd (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106275) Its coming out to $1435 w/ S&H before I combo deal any of that stuff. There is a $20 MIR on the SeaSonic but I always fail to get that money one way or another so I don't count it. I think I'll easily end up under $1450 all told with the cpu cooler once I combo deal a few things. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Trippy on October 25, 2009, 05:45:23 PM cd/dvd (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106275) Why would you not get a burner?Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Hoax on October 25, 2009, 06:38:47 PM He said he didn't care. Says he never burns anything and his wife has one on her laptop. Figured save the $10 bucks then or whatever.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Salamok on October 25, 2009, 09:28:09 PM cd/dvd (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106275) Why would you not get a burner?Or at least sata, ribbon cable FTL. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Hoax on October 25, 2009, 09:34:05 PM cd/dvd (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106275) Why would you not get a burner?Or at least sata, ribbon cable FTL. Shit, now that is a damn fine point, I fucking hate Ribbon cable. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: fuser on October 26, 2009, 01:22:24 AM Ok spoke with my friend and went over his options, talked about possible savings with him and he pretty much waved me off. So here's the final build that is only missing an aftermarket cpu cooler. Looks like a really nice system. Running my q6600 in that case, its really nice but pick up a few 120mm fans, I think two were in the box and it has mounting for like 5. CoolerMaster 690 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137) Take a look at this Corsair H50 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181010) HSF for cooling :drill: Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Engels on October 26, 2009, 07:26:15 AM I've never been convinced by heatsinks that rely on a longish narrow pipe to conduct the heat up to a cooling grill.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: rattran on October 26, 2009, 07:32:35 AM You don't believe in heat pipes?
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Salamok on October 26, 2009, 08:27:57 AM We could go into a long description of the physics behind heat pipes but I have a feeling the economic argument is probably easier to understand.
Dell has been using these for the last 10 years, if they didn't work I seriously doubt Dell would spend the extra money to put this set up in all of their desktops. These are the same guys that didn't believe in adding a 2nd connection to their ribbon cable, unless you ordered a system with more than one HD. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Kageh on October 26, 2009, 09:40:23 AM For an i7, if you don't plan to overclock, you don't need an aftermarket cooler. Stock cooler is perfectly okay for stock speeds. You will probably get a D0 stepping i7 nowadays, you can and should undervolt those easily by about 20%. I did some experimenting with my Xeon W3520 (which is a re-labeled server i7-920(D0)) and I got a 3GHz OC with 0.95 VCore (stock VCore is 1.25V).
If you plan to OC at some point, go for an aftermarket cooler, as swapping coolers is a PITA with an already built system. My recommendations (in this order) would be:
The listed Corsair H50 is actually an interesting alternative if you want to bother with a "mini" watercooling setup. You still have to fit the radiator somewhere inside, and I have no idea how long till you need to swap the coolant, but it gives good cooling performance and is very quiet. Zalman is not in the league to play with the big boys on air cooling an i7. They used to make decent S775 coolers, but i7 is a different story. CNPS10X is their top cooler, and the "Extreme" version roars like a turbine while still not cooling best in the top bracket. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: fuser on October 26, 2009, 11:06:05 AM The listed Corsair H50 is actually an interesting alternative if you want to bother with a "mini" watercooling setup. You still have to fit the radiator somewhere inside, and I have no idea how long till you need to swap the coolant, but it gives good cooling performance and is very quiet. The rad fits into the 120mm placement right behind the CPU in most cases. In the CM690 it would fit there but a major difference with the H50 is the requirement to draw cold air into the case from the mounting, not exhaust as per normal setups. The CM690 has a top 120mm fan slot right above the cpu mounting so you could draw the hot air out and exhaust from it for a really nice air flow. I really hate recommending the big HSF like the thermal right ultra120 because they are so f'n heavy I'm sure one of these days its going to crack my motherboard due to its shear weight. Oh well the H50 is a silly recommendation stick with a decent and proven air cooling solution. I've never been convinced by heatsinks that rely on a longish narrow pipe to conduct the heat up to a cooling grill. In the H50 its not a heat pipe, its liquid cooled (closed system water cooling from the copper base upto the rad with its own built in pump sitting on top of the copper base). Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Sheepherder on October 26, 2009, 11:49:47 AM I've never been convinced by heatsinks that rely on a longish narrow pipe to conduct the heat up to a cooling grill. You mean the technology commonly used to cool nuclear reactors on satellites? I'm not even trying to be an douche here, do a Wikipedia search for "heat pipe", you are missing some seriously good shit. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Miguel on October 26, 2009, 01:28:15 PM Quote Stock cooler is perfectly okay for stock speeds. What about noise? I've heard some really loud stock Intel HSF's...this is usually why I end up replacing it (or at least lowering the voltage down to make it quieter). Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Kageh on October 26, 2009, 03:23:28 PM Good point, haven't experienced that first hand because I used an aftermarket one from start, but here's what Google had to say:
High fan speed (http://media.bestofmicro.com/4/U/193278/original/noise_high.png) Low fan speed (http://media.bestofmicro.com/4/V/193279/original/noise_low.png) I'm not very versed in dB values, so can't comment on whether 44 is too loud. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Engels on October 26, 2009, 05:57:12 PM Doh, I totally missed that the 'stem' was part of a liquid cooling system. I just figured it was a rod of copper or some such.
Of course I am down with heat pipes. Its just my experience that when you have all your heat being shunted up one or two narrow copper pipes rather than the 4-6 normally seen, you get slower heat dissapation, no matter how big and macho your radiator/fan combo is. That's all. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Numtini on October 27, 2009, 06:32:25 AM Wow, thanks for the suggestion on looking up heat pipes. I never trusted the heat pipe cooling things on an emotional level because I didn't understand how they worked, but I knew I was being irrational or the reviews at newegg would be full of complaints.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Murgos on October 27, 2009, 07:39:18 AM 44.1 dB is over twice as loud as 39.7 dB. As a rule of thumb intensity doubles every 3 dB (i.e. 10^1.3 ~= 20).
According to wiki 30 dB is a very quiet room, 40 dB is very soft conversation. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Falconeer on October 27, 2009, 08:14:19 AM I just went yesterday to preorder my new beast, but I can still make a few changes if needed.
Would you give me an opinion? - Case: Thermaltake Spedo Tower Black - €202 - PSU: ATX 1100w Cooler Master 80plus Bronze Quad - €206 - Mobo: Asus SkAM3 Crosshair Formula 3 DDR3 - €159 - CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 Ghz 8mb Black Edition - €163 - RAM: 4x2gb Corsair PC3-12800 1600mhz CL8 - €210 - HD: Western Digital 1tb S-ATA II 3.5 Caviar Black - €82 - Videocard: GeForce GTX295 1,792 GB - €412 - OS: Win 7 Pro - €143 - Monitor: Samsung 23 P2370 50000:1 1000:1 300cd/m2 2ms - €220 Grand total: 1797 euros, which is at today's exhange rates 2662 USD (whoa, what's going on with your money, pals?!) Comments? EDIT: Are they robbing me on some components? Are prices so different from US to southern EU? Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Hoax on October 27, 2009, 08:29:19 AM I just went yesterday to preorder my new beast, but I can still make a few changes if needed. Would you give me an opinion? - Case: Thermaltake Spedo Tower Black - €202 - PSU: ATX 1100w Cooler Master 80plus Bronze Quad - €206 - Mobo: Asus SkAM3 Crosshair Formula 3 DDR3 - €159 - CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 Ghz 8mb Black Edition - €163 - RAM: 4x2gb Corsair PC3-12800 1600mhz CL8 - €210 - HD: Western Digital 1tb S-ATA II 3.5 Caviar Black - €82 - Videocard: GeForce GTX295 1,792 GB - €412 - OS: Win 7 Pro - €143 - Monitor: Samsung 23 P2370 50000:1 1000:1 300cd/m2 2ms - €220 Grand total: 1797 euros, which is at today's exhange rates 2662 USD (whoa, what's going on with your money, pals?!) Comments? For that kind of money there have to be better cases, also thats more money then bit-tech's review suggests it should be. Here is their conclusion: Quote On paper the Thermaltake Spedo should be one of the best cases we’ve looked at this year, combining a whole range of desirable features like an excellent cable routing system, easy access drive bays in a highly configurable setup and an innovative compartment system with one of the most capable cooling setups we’ve see here in the bit-tech labs. Sadly what’s written on the spec sheet hasn’t been translated into the finished product and while the core steel chassis is well built and very solid, not to mention nicely finished and painted inside and out, the plastic components of the Spedo are a colossal let down with the build quality of a twenty year old Rover and in the case of the ATC plastic panelling, the usefulness of a chocolate heatsink. We’ve spent the last few days with the Spedo, photographing and building our test system into the case, and the list of parts which have broken through general use is embarrassing. The case door handle (multiple times), two of the ATC thermal chamber panels, the drive bay catches (multiple times) and the case trim have all broken, snapped or simply come off in our hands and are prime examples of the poor quality plastic Thermaltake has chosen to adorn the case with. We hate to think how the Spedo would cope with extended use and multiple installs if this is the level of disintegration we’ve encountered in just a few days. What’s worse is that the Spedo is by no means a budget chassis, currently retailing for over £125! That’s a good £10 more than the comparable Cooler Master HAF932, a case which produces similar cooling and features with much lower noise levels and far, far superior build quality. We might have forgiven the build quality flaws if the case was priced £20 or £30 lower than the competition, but at this price point our criticism is most certainly deserved - you don't expect to pay over £100 for a case that starts to fall to bits before your system is even built. Underneath all the plastic rubbish and noisy fans though, there is a sound core chassis here. The thermal performance figures are very impressive and the interior is roomy with a couple of very nice little touches especially in regards to the case’s cable management system. Sadly these aren’t enough to compensate for the negatives and despite its solid thermal performance, there are plenty of cheaper and better built alternatives out there that we’d opt for instead of the Spedo. -Make sure that is a good PSU, I hate people skimping on off-brand PSU's. I stick only to SeaSonic and Corsair branded SeaSonics at this point. -Mobo/Cpu/VGA seem great. -There is a now very prevalent school of thought that says you should pick of two of the HD's and partition them running on pair of partitions in RAID0 for the OS + game installs. I've had experiences with RAID that I didn't enjoy so meh. -When I went shopping for a monitor it was a massive hassle and I did about 3 days of solid research all told. Is 23 = 23" because I thought you couldn't get true widescreen if its under 24"? -I think in this thread someone posted a good rundown of why buying super quality ram is silly. I think you can save some money there. -Where is the aftermarket cpu cooler? Or are you skipping that? Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Salamok on October 27, 2009, 08:52:31 AM I haven't followed the new AMD cpu's but is there a reason you didn't go for a triplet of matched ram?
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Trippy on October 27, 2009, 08:58:05 AM I just went yesterday to preorder my new beast, but I can still make a few changes if needed. Why would you spend so much on a GPU and so little on your CPU? A video card is much easier to upgrade than a CPU and your top end AMD CPU has the performance of the mid-range Intel ones. The new i5-750 CPU is actually faster than the X4 965 in many games and it's roughly the same price.Would you give me an opinion? - Case: Thermaltake Spedo Tower Black - €202 - PSU: ATX 1100w Cooler Master 80plus Bronze Quad - €206 - Mobo: Asus SkAM3 Crosshair Formula 3 DDR3 - €159 - CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 Ghz 8mb Black Edition - €163 - RAM: 4x2gb Corsair PC3-12800 1600mhz CL8 - €210 - HD: Western Digital 1tb S-ATA II 3.5 Caviar Black - €82 - Videocard: GeForce GTX295 1,792 GB - €412 - OS: Win 7 Pro - €143 - Monitor: Samsung 23 P2370 50000:1 1000:1 300cd/m2 2ms - €220 Grand total: 1797 euros, which is at today's exhange rates 2662 USD (whoa, what's going on with your money, pals?!) Comments? EDIT: Are they robbing me on some components? Are prices so different from US to southern EU? Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Falconeer on October 27, 2009, 09:11:10 AM Ah, very good one from Trippy. Didn't know.
And cpu fan, I forgot it! Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Mosesandstick on October 27, 2009, 10:40:00 AM 44.1 dB is over twice as loud as 39.7 dB. As a rule of thumb intensity doubles every 3 dB (i.e. 10^1.3 ~= 20). According to wiki 30 dB is a very quiet room, 40 dB is very soft conversation. If I remember correctly our hearing doesn't respond linearly, so twice the intensity wouldn't necessarily be perceived as twice as loud. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Murgos on October 27, 2009, 11:11:45 AM If I remember correctly our hearing doesn't respond linearly, so twice the intensity wouldn't necessarily be perceived as twice as loud. Yes, you are right. I misspoke in the first sentence but I was trying to explain that concept with the examples of what corresponds to the difference from 30 dB to 40dB in the example.There is a lot more going on though, some sounds just sound 'louder' than others even at similar pressure levels. Mostly, my point was just that any change over 3 dB would be quite noticeable so that you shouldn't get the fan on the bottom of that list. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Mosesandstick on October 27, 2009, 11:24:12 AM True that!
Is 4 GB of RAM really sufficient? What if I add more later? Turns out things in the UK are a lot more expensive than the US... :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Kageh on October 27, 2009, 12:01:24 PM @Falconeer:
Prices seem okay for me, EU-wise. Austria has comparable prices. Some of the sizing is questionable though: Case is too costly for the quality. When you spend €200 on a case, go for top of the line. That means Lian Li/Lancool/Silverstone. If you want CM, check out 690, HAF 922/HAF 932. 1100W PSU is something you buy for quad SLI. I am running SLI GTX 260s (which should burn more power than a 295) with an overclocked i7 on a 650W PSU, and I'd guess 600 would be okay for that. A rough calculation for your build would put me somewhere at 500W tops, although you have to check out the amperage on the 12V rails. However, a 650W solid PSU vs. a 1100W equals about €100 savings. I second Trippy's point about i5/i7 vs. AMD Phenom II, although I'd say the performance difference is not *that* high - but it still is noticeable. Also, if you really want AMD, X4 965 BE hasn't the best value for money ratio (High-end AMD I'd go for X4 955 BE, runs less hot, draws less power, no noticeable performance difference). And at this price, you definitely should consider i5 too. Do you plan to overclock? The black editions have unlocked multipliers, that's why they label them extra. If you don't need to overclock or don't fear fiddling around with base clock speeds, you can buy a "non-BE" cheaper Phenom II too. For RAM, you should be able to get DDR3-1333 for a lot less than your current choice, and you won't notice a big difference. CL8 at that speed is probably a price driver too, if there's CL9 available for less get CL9, you won't see any gaming performance difference. Does the board even support DD3 at that speed? Many DD3 boards are only certified up to 1333 MHz, and once past that you're SOL if the memory is incompatible. Generally speaking, 4GB RAM is probably enough if you don't plan to do stuff like editing huge video files and the like. 8GB is cool to have, but not necessary for a gaming rig. If you save another €100 there, I'd keep the money and buy more RAM, should you need it, when the prices go down again. DDR3 pricing is really at an all-time high currently. They can only go down from here. Heck, I bought 6GB DD3-1600 for €60 in July, I feel I should've stocked up to 12 back then ;-). Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: AutomaticZen on October 27, 2009, 12:49:09 PM True that! Is 4 GB of RAM really sufficient? What if I add more later? Turns out things in the UK are a lot more expensive than the US... :awesome_for_real: 4 GBs is fine. I prefer 6, but it's becoming rather difficult to get that in Dual Channel, as manufacturers seem to be dislike making 2x2GB and 2X1GB in matching sets and timings. My current planned build (there's a Microcenter in my area): Core i5 750 (http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0317379): $150 Gigabyte P55-UD3R (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128401): $140 G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231278): $81 Samsung Spinpoint 1TB 7200 RPM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152102): $85 Corsair 750W Power Supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681713900): $110 Antec 300 (http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0283272): $50 Thoughts going into this: The 750 will be good enough for gaming and while I never use SLI, that was the bottom-rung board I could find with the best layout and reviews. Memory prices have flattened, so the price difference between 1066, 1333, 1600 is only a few dollars, hence the 1600 set. Pondering two sets, as I prefer to have 6 GBs, but I can't find a matching 2x1GB set. The hard drive joins the other two I have, 250 GB system drive (OS, documents, and programs only) and 500 GB Media Drive. On the power supply, I've be fine with the 650, but the 550, 650, 750 are all teh same price on NewEgg right now. The case is solid, with the power supply on the bottom. (a preference of mine) $616 total, with another $200 budgeted for a video card and $50 for DVD drive. The drive will probably be about half the budgeted price, and I'm holding off to see NVidia's GT300 series before I pull the trigger on a card. A GT260 will outperform my current card (8800 GT), but I'm looking for something DX11 that I won't need to touch for a good three years. Already have two 22" monitors. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Salamok on October 27, 2009, 08:03:21 PM 4 GBs is fine. I prefer 6, but it's becoming rather difficult to get that in Dual Channel, as manufacturers seem to be dislike making 2x2GB and 2X1GB in matching sets and timings. This was my point before, if you are building a new system with ddr3 you should be using triple channel which is really easy to get in a 6gb configuration (3x2gb). Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Trippy on October 27, 2009, 08:07:46 PM Only LGA 1366 motherboards (aka Bloomfield CPUs) support triple channel memory. I.e. DDR3 != triple channel.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: AutomaticZen on October 27, 2009, 09:42:29 PM 4 GBs is fine. I prefer 6, but it's becoming rather difficult to get that in Dual Channel, as manufacturers seem to be dislike making 2x2GB and 2X1GB in matching sets and timings. This was my point before, if you are building a new system with ddr3 you should be using triple channel which is really easy to get in a 6gb configuration (3x2gb). As Trippy said only the Core i7 1366 socket boards support Triple Channel memory, and that's more for severe enthusiasts. Sticking with i5 or even a lower-rung i7 means 1156 socket, which is Dual Channel, like it's brethren before it. And for some reason, memory makers are reticent to make 2x2GB and 2x1GB sets that have matching voltage and memory timings. If anyone knows of any DDR3 1066/1333/1600 that fits the bil, let me know. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Falconeer on October 28, 2009, 03:08:07 AM Thanks everyone who contributed to my pc. I switched to the Intel i5 and I am looking into a better cabinet. I love the smell of a new PC in the morning.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Numtini on October 28, 2009, 12:33:58 PM Thanks everyone who contributed to my pc. I switched to the Intel i5 and I am looking into a better cabinet. I love the smell of a new PC in the morning. If you smell something funny when you turn it on in the morning, you're probably going to be filling out an RMA form :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Mosesandstick on November 01, 2009, 11:39:03 AM Here we go! And from a UK site (why is everything so expensive here?)
i5 750 (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Intel-Core-i5-750-Quad-Core-266Ghz-%28Lynnfield%29-8M-Cache-LGA1156-CPU-Retail) MSI P55-CD53 (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/MSI-P55-CD53-Intel-P55-Motherboard-LGA1156) 2x2 Corsair DDR3 1333 (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/4GB-%282x2GB%29-CorsairTwinX-XMS3-DDR3-PC3-10666-%281333MHz%29-240-Pin-Unbuffered-CAS-9-9-9-24-DHX) Corsair 650W PSU (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/650W-TX-Corsair-PSU-single-12V-rail-energy-efficient-quiet-and-cool-fully-compatible-5yr-warranty) ASUS HD5750 (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/1GB-ASUS-HD5750-PCI-E-20%28x16%29-1150MHz-GDDR5-GPU-700MHz-Cores-720-2x-DL-DVI-I-HDMI) Hitatchi Deskstar 320GB (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/320-GB-Hitachi-0A35411-Deskstar-T7K500-SATA-300-7200-rpm-16MB-Cache-85-ms-NCQ) Silverstone TJ06S (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Silverstone-TJ06S-W-%28Silver%29-Aluminum-Supertower-Case-with-Window-%28w-o-PSU%29) Sony funky DVD RW (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Sony-AD-5240S-0B-24x-DVDR-12xDVDDL-DVDRW-x8-RWx6-SATA-Black) Thoughts? I'm thinking that eventually I might upgrade and up the RAM, buy a SSD and maybe a new GPU. Also, 320GB is fine for me for an internal, I rarely have that much kept on a hard drive (I'm currently working off a 60 gig...) Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Kageh on November 01, 2009, 01:40:42 PM Looks okay from the links - haven't checked prices - but:
(small complaint) Why not a bigger hard drive? Those things are cheap and 320GB is very 2003. (big complaint) Are you a gamer? You want a big upgrade, get a 5850 over a 5750. It's the most important piece of your gaming rig, and it's about €90 over a 5750 for a very noticeable performance boost. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Mosesandstick on November 01, 2009, 01:59:46 PM POOR. Actually I just re-checked prices. I'll probably get a 500/640 instead. The thing with the GPU is that we're talking over twice the price, and unfortunately I don't game anywhere near as much as I used to.
Generally if I game I do two things, either old games or up to date MP games. When it comes to MP games I usually turn things down anyway because I want the performance boost. Nobody's going to be nabbing my items in D3 :awesome_for_real:. It's really an issue of buying a more expensive card now, or upgrading in two years (I think). Edit: Obligatory thanks! Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Kageh on November 01, 2009, 02:07:53 PM Alright, makes sense. If you want to optimize though, you can safely pick a noticeably smaller PSU *and* have enough power/money for a 5850 left, I think.
I'm currently running an overclocked i7-920 and 2*GTX 260 SLI with 650W. I think you can run i5-750 and a 5850 on 500W easily, as long as you get enough amperage on 12V. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Mosesandstick on November 01, 2009, 02:10:07 PM I'm down with that, I was just thinking that if I upgraded I'd keep the PSU and need some juice spare for more power-hungry components. Good idea?
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Kageh on November 01, 2009, 02:14:24 PM Yes, but (a big BUT), God only knows what the computer manufacturers will be coming up with in about a year's worth.
My guess is that 650W is probably enough for the next big single-GPU thing and the next CPUs, since they move down to 32nm/40nm production and that should bring power usage down. It's most likely a tight fit or not enough for lower-end SLI setups (I'm predicting we're gonna see lots of them x2 cards in the near future) and certainly not big enough for high-end SLI. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Mosesandstick on November 01, 2009, 02:22:39 PM New technology :awesome_for_real:
I should stick to console gaming. Anyways, thanks! Future-proofing is tough. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Hoax on November 01, 2009, 08:29:36 PM My thoughts, ignoring prices because I'm not sure if they pound = 1.5 dollars even holds any more and I don't know if you guys get screwed like Aussies on part prices or not.
-I think you might want to do a tiny bit of research and shopping on the VGA, personally it bothers me when cards don't vent out the case these days but its not something to get bent out of shape on. I crunched numbers 2 weeks ago and went with a 4890 because fuck DX11 and the benchmarks for appropriate games seemed to be much better then the 5770 which is what I had been thinking of putting in. -If you're happy with the HD size, who cares, but make sure you can't double the storage for $10 because usually you can at those levels. -Corsair PSU's are generally quite good, their Ram is still the best. I have one of their PSU's and its quiet, not SeaSonic quiet but passable. -MSI mobo worries me a tiny tiny bit. Aren't they usually considered a power user brand? Sort of flaky/funky BIOS but if you tweak them they will outperform competition in the price bracket? That's how it was a year ago when I was looking into Quad Core boards, so just read a few specific reviews for that board and make sure its not going to be too much of a hassle for you. I say this because it sounds like your not exactly the type to want to fuck with flashing your BIOS and then fiddling around for the first week making sure everything is kicking ass. My opinions are just that, opinions. Listen to anyone else before me. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Mosesandstick on November 02, 2009, 04:15:54 AM Thanks for the thoughts. I just re-checked prices again, and I can get a 1 gig 4870 for around the same price as a 5750, so I'm going to go with that.
I've checked individual reviews for that MSi board before and it seems OK, I've used an MSI board before and that was not fun (wiring problems in the mobo --> cpu fan wouldn't start --> fried cpu), but I'm competent enough to tackle any issues. It's just been a long time since I've done this. Time to order! Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Kageh on November 02, 2009, 04:20:17 AM I've seen good and bad boards from all the major manufacturers, and the BIOS quality varies heavily with chipset or a particular board model even if from the same manufacturer. Yes, some of the "bigger" names like ASUS and Gigabyte tend to be rather prompt and trying with the BIOS quality, it is however nothing I would decide on a general basis. MSI is a solid enough choice. Just look up your particular board for reviews on the net and see if it does what you expect it to do.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: AutomaticZen on November 02, 2009, 05:49:22 AM I'm futzing around with getting a 4870 or 4890 as they outperform or outprice their NVIDIA equivalent (GTX 260). The 5850 is too rich for my blood as I tend to spend $200 max on a video card. I'm lending towards a 4870 as it's slightly cheaper, and I intend to replace it in the summer once NVIDIA's 300 series comes down the pipe in mainstream revs. That's either be a great set of cards at a decent price or it'll push ATI's prices down further within my range.
The 5770 doesn't impress me much because by time DX11 has a noticeable improvement in the games I play, the card will be gone from my box. Add in the underperformance graphics-wise and the 128-bit mem controller, and it's just not for me. So thoughts? 4870 or 4890? Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: rattran on November 02, 2009, 08:07:59 AM The heavily overclocked (factory) 4890/1gig beats the pants off my old 4870/512m. But I play games at 1920x1200 with AA/AF, so your mileage may vary. I would suggest going with a Sapphire Vapor-x, it's a much quieter cooler than any of the others I've played with.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Kageh on November 03, 2009, 12:29:32 AM Yes, 4890 for sure. Vapor-X is cool, but kind of pricey though, isn't it?
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: AutomaticZen on November 03, 2009, 05:51:11 AM For a 4890? Not really. It's actually around the price of a GTX 260, which it outperforms. Newegg has it for 194.99, versus the 164.99 for the Vapor-X 4870.
But that helps. I usually go with an after-market GPU cooler, but the Vapor-X card should do nicely. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Stewie on November 04, 2009, 10:51:25 AM I'm putting together a new system and am planning on going with win 7
I was just going to with a i7 920 and 6 gb of ram(3 stick of 2), but since I changed my mind to go with a i5 750 and saved a bunch, I may spend a bit more on memory and get 8gb. Will I need it? Should I just stick with 4gb (2x2)? Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Kageh on November 04, 2009, 11:01:44 AM Depends on what you want to do. If you are mostly gaming, 4 GB is usually enough. Even if you use a 64-bit OS, which you probably will, you need natively compiled 64-bit games to address more than 2GB of ram, and those are few and far between.
EDIT: Something else to consider, DDR3 prices are inflated quite a bit at the moment, since retailers were stockpiling DDR3 for the i5 platform release. I think prices should go down for christmas or after christmas at latest, if you can wait that long. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Trippy on November 04, 2009, 11:34:27 AM I'm putting together a new system and am planning on going with win 7 How many memory slots does your motherboard have?I was just going to with a i7 920 and 6 gb of ram(3 stick of 2), but since I changed my mind to go with a i5 750 and saved a bunch, I may spend a bit more on memory and get 8gb. Will I need it? Should I just stick with 4gb (2x2)? For people here I would recommend at least 6 GB these days. 4 GB is barely enough to keep from swapping, if you only have a minimal set of apps open at once. 3D games can grab well over 1 GB these days. Let's say 1 GB is for the OS and related stuff. Firefox is still a memory hog and can grab ~1 GB for itself. That leaves less than 1 GB for everything else. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Stewie on November 04, 2009, 03:19:31 PM My MB uses dual channel. 4slots total.
I got 4 gb for now. Only cost me 124. I may get another 4 gb later. The memory is pretty fast as well with 7-7-7-7 timing Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Stewie on November 05, 2009, 11:39:33 AM So I just built a new comp and I told myself for once I will make sure that I would do proper cable management.
I really was bound and determined to make it look nice and clean. That being said, once again the inside of my comp case looks like a rats nest. Why must I suck? Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: AutomaticZen on November 05, 2009, 11:48:52 AM So I just built a new comp and I told myself for once I will make sure that I would do proper cable management. I really was bound and determined to make it look nice and clean. That being said, once again the inside of my comp case looks like a rats nest. Why must I suck? Did you use cable ties? Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Stewie on November 05, 2009, 12:06:51 PM yup, I even routed some of the power cables between the back panel that you mount the mb on and the outside panel.
I found the cables that seem to be making the biggest mess are the little hd led and powerswitch type cables plus the 2 6pin power cables that go to the Video card and the front audio inputs. I just couldn't figure a neat way to organize them as they all come from different locations and go to different locations. Either way, I'm not really to concerned about it as it all works fine and once I have the side panel on no one will ever see it. Just irks me when I see peoples nice clean builds and mine looks like shit. I do gotta say that this is by far and away the quietest comp I have ever put together. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Viin on November 05, 2009, 12:48:56 PM I think I'm gonna get me one of these if I have a small windfall of money anytime soon:
http://computershopper.com/desktops/reviews/maingear-shift Quote Processor: 3.3GHz Intel Core i7-975 Extreme Edition (overclocked to 3.98GHz) Memory: 6GB DDR3 Storage : Two 80GB solid-state drives (RAID 0); one 2TB hard drive Optical Drive: BD-ROM/DVD±RW combo Monitor: None Graphics: Three ATI Radeon HD 5870 cards (1GB DDR5 on each) That would be an awesome system to continue to upgrade on. Getting a little sick of my current case, with the PSU at the top and stuff ... Edit: Also, whats with this trend of providing only 3 DIMM slots for memory on i5/i7 mobos? Is there a new triple channel memory thingy that I'm not aware of? Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Murgos on November 05, 2009, 12:57:15 PM Edit: Also, whats with this trend of providing only 3 DIMM slots for memory on i5/i7 mobos? Is there a new triple channel memory thingy that I'm not aware of? Yes. Set's of three now. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Ingmar on November 05, 2009, 01:01:00 PM i7-9XX are triple channel. i7-8XX are dual channel, and I thought all the i5s were dual channel but I could be wrong about that.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Kageh on November 05, 2009, 01:24:16 PM i7-9XX are triple channel. i7-8XX are dual channel, and I thought all the i5s were dual channel but I could be wrong about that. i7-8xx and current i5s are both Lynnfield, only dual channel, yes. i7-9xx are Bloomfield generation, so triple channel controller. @Viin: You can OC D0 i7-920s to 4Ghz quite often if you're willing to burn power. Since they allow for 20x multiplicator, all you need is 200 Mhz BCLK. i7-965 is a waste of money unless you want to do watercooled overclocks for some insane frequencies. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Draegan on November 05, 2009, 01:37:23 PM Random question.
Can anyone suggest an inexpensive sound card, but decent quality? Don't need anything fancy. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Viin on November 05, 2009, 01:37:51 PM @Viin: You can OC D0 i7-920s to 4Ghz quite often if you're willing to burn power. Since they allow for 20x multiplicator, all you need is 200 Mhz BCLK. i7-965 is a waste of money unless you want to do watercooled overclocks for some insane frequencies. Nah I'm going with the low end i5 for now (I'll wait until the i7 prices come down). I can overclock that a bit and get decent performance for the $$ without getting crazy. I usually don't get the top top processor because of the very fact that you can normally overclock the process one or two steps below and get almost the same performance for less. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Stewie on November 05, 2009, 01:53:21 PM I ended up going with the i5 750.
and yeah the i5's have dual channel. Draegan, I went with a auzentech prelude x-fi 7.1 (http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=23788&vpn=PRELUDE&manufacture=AuzenTech&promoid=1120). This may be much more than what you wanted though but it got pretty good reviews. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Sky on November 06, 2009, 07:19:55 AM Hope that auzentech works out for you. I had horrible luck with their drivers, a few games were completely unplayable do to occasional blasts of full-volume white noise (Oblivion is the one that comes to mind). I ended up going with a creative X-Fi and the creative home theater attachment, which is ok for games but sucks for bluray because it breaks the digital chain. I'll have to rebuild my last pc with the auzentech to do HD movies with dd5.1.
Mine was an auzentech xplosion, iirc. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: rattran on November 06, 2009, 07:48:15 AM I have an xfi titanium (pci-e version) that's been a continual annoyance in vista and win7. It'll 'detect' front panel mic/headphones (not even hooked to the card ffs) occasionally and mute the speakers and rear-mic, changes settings randomly, and will on occassion just start outputting crackly static. A reboot always seems to fix the crackling, and Creative support is 'unhelpful' Seems if you get any sound at all out of it, they consider it a success, and advise updating drivers when they become available.
So, I'd suggest staying away from the xfi titanium line. I'm awfully close to just using the onboard realtek hd. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Sky on November 06, 2009, 08:10:21 AM Mine's a zo,mgfatal1ty x-fi xtreeeeeeme gamer. Love it, no problems.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Draegan on November 06, 2009, 08:36:48 AM I have an xfi titanium (pci-e version) that's been a continual annoyance in vista and win7. It'll 'detect' front panel mic/headphones (not even hooked to the card ffs) occasionally and mute the speakers and rear-mic, changes settings randomly, and will on occassion just start outputting crackly static. A reboot always seems to fix the crackling, and Creative support is 'unhelpful' Seems if you get any sound at all out of it, they consider it a success, and advise updating drivers when they become available. So, I'd suggest staying away from the xfi titanium line. I'm awfully close to just using the onboard realtek hd. I've been using my onboard realtek and I've been getting those detect popups which is why I need a sound card. I've had no other issues otherwise. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Stewie on November 06, 2009, 09:05:25 AM so far my auzentech seems to work pretty good, installed drivers and everything is fine.
That being said I have only tried borderlands and dragon age and both sounded great. I was reading that on the i5/i7 mobo you need to turn on xmp (?) in the bios for it to recognize the memory correctly. For example on my memory it is DDR3-1600 7-7-7-7 and if I don't enable that it will treat it as 1333 8-8-8-8. I will do this today when I get home for work, I may upgrade to 8gb though Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Sky on November 06, 2009, 09:48:42 AM I wanted to bump up to 8GB when I installed W7, but prices jumped up too steeply. I paid $47 ($67-$20 MIR) for 4 GB in March. The same pair would cost me $89 ($96-$7 instant) today.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Stewie on November 06, 2009, 10:46:47 AM Wow, that price is awesome. How long ago did you get that? My memory cost me $124 cdn
If I went with the i7 and tri channel memory generic ocz memory would have cost around $180 for the 6gb here is the memory I got (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16820231279&cm_re=g-skill_ddr3_1600-_-20-231-279-_-CustomerReview) Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Sky on November 06, 2009, 11:13:30 AM Wow, that price is awesome. How long ago did you get that? I paid $47 ($67-$20 MIR) for 4 GB in March. My RAM is ddr2 800, but I use crucial memory. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: AutomaticZen on November 06, 2009, 02:59:39 PM Wow, that price is awesome. How long ago did you get that? My memory cost me $124 cdn If I went with the i7 and tri channel memory generic ocz memory would have cost around $180 for the 6gb here is the memory I got (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16820231279&cm_re=g-skill_ddr3_1600-_-20-231-279-_-CustomerReview) I went with the same brand, but the 1333 set, per the link I posted before saying that premium memory isn't quite worth it over latency. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Sheepherder on November 08, 2009, 02:58:33 AM (Oblivion is the one that comes to mind). 705 Kbps, 44 kHz sample, mono channel PCM. And people wonder why their computer fucking explodes when a horse gallops by. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Murgos on November 08, 2009, 08:15:29 AM You actually think writing ~88KB over an entire second to a sound card buffer should have any noticeable effect on a modern computer?
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Sheepherder on November 08, 2009, 11:08:20 AM I'm sure there's a perfectly reasonable explanation why disabling footfalls yields a 16 fps increase when fighting wolves and rats that doesn't involve me being right. EDIT: This also happens to be the reason I always recommend a real sound card. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Murgos on November 08, 2009, 11:21:58 AM I'm sure there's a perfectly reasonable explanation why disabling footfalls yields a 16 fps increase when fighting wolves and rats that doesn't involve me being right. EDIT: This also happens to be the reason I always recommend a real sound card. No, there is an issue with how they handle sound files (possibly - bugs are hardly ever that straight forward) the size of the file you mentioned though, or it's sampling rate or any other detail about it, really has nothing to do with it. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Tarami on November 08, 2009, 11:39:46 AM On the topic of sound cards and computer building, I feel I want to promote this card a bit, if you're fine with stereo sound:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile2496.html Hands down the cleanest, highest quality stereo sound you can get for under $150, hell, under $300 for that matter. I absolutely love mine and will never buy another bloated, shitty Creative card. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Sheepherder on November 08, 2009, 12:53:50 PM No, there is an issue with how they handle sound files (possibly - bugs are hardly ever that straight forward) the size of the file you mentioned though, or it's sampling rate or any other detail about it, really has nothing to do with it. So, effectively your argument is that one variable in a compound problem is more important than the others by dint of my being wrong, predicated on that assumption. For future reference: it's trivially easy to downsample audio with a batch converter, whereas patching a game engine is not. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Murgos on November 08, 2009, 01:53:50 PM So, effectively your argument is that one variable in a compound problem is more important than the others by dint of my being wrong, predicated on that assumption. For future reference: it's trivially easy to downsample audio with a batch converter, whereas patching a game engine is not. No my argument is the things you quoted didn't have the effect you say they did. My evidence is that of the millions and millions of people who played Oblivion very, very few ran into a problem with audio playback causing frame rate drop (Which everyone would have had if that had actually been the issue). This is also supported by the fact that I know a modern computer bus can handle several orders of magnitude more data transfer than 705kbps across the Northbridge to the Southbridge and out to an Audio Device regardless of if that audio device is located on the motherboard or on a separate daughter card. I'm glad that you know how to resample audio through a batch file, I am sure it will make your life much more wonderful. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Engels on November 08, 2009, 03:19:49 PM On the topic of sound cards and computer building, I feel I want to promote this card a bit, if you're fine with stereo sound: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile2496.html Hands down the cleanest, highest quality stereo sound you can get for under $150, hell, under $300 for that matter. I absolutely love mine and will never buy another bloated, shitty Creative card. So to get to your speakers, do you have this going through a mixer or a tuner or directly to speakers that can take that type of connection? Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Trippy on November 08, 2009, 03:33:48 PM If you mean computer speakers this is what you want:
http://www.amazon.com/3-5mm-Mini-Plug-Computer-Stereo/dp/B000FEHO0U Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Engels on November 08, 2009, 03:40:39 PM Thanks Trippy. That was pretty much my question. I'm also wondering if using ye-olde 'comes with a Dell' computer speakers would pretty much waste that sound card's potential. I can tell the difference between on-board sound and my creative PCI card even on my cheapo harman/kardon speaker set, but I wonder if I would really note an improvement with a more sophisticated sound card like the one above.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Tarami on November 08, 2009, 04:01:37 PM It could be considered a waste if you're already relatively happy with your current soundcard, but it's worth considering if you're planning an upgrade, as it's not more expensive than your typical Creative card. To be realistic, no, I don't think there'll be a considerable difference to your current card, especially as Creative's cards are usually quite biased to fit well with systems lacking midrange (such as satellites + subwoofer.) However, if you're the kind of person who has headphones worth more than $150 or using the home audio system from the computer, I would recommend looking into it, because it gives a much more "honest" sound than most gaming soundcards do.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Sheepherder on November 08, 2009, 04:37:36 PM Murgos:
Yes, (http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1050052&hl=) I (http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1042633&hl=) alone (http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1040012&hl=) found (http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1011232&hl=) and (http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1005264&hl=) corrected (http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=997008&hl=) this. (http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=960857&hl=) Will that suffice? Or should I hit up the modding and community sites too? Will you also need a search for Realtek audio? Bethesda's sound engine is bad. The sound files are all excessively high quality. And onboard audio unloads large quantities of floating-point math on your processor proportional to the size and number of sound effects. Point one and two should not have ever occurred, because point three is inevitable in consumer computers. Sky's problem with the Auzentech is probably Codec or driver related, which doesn't surprise me coming from a game that can be interfered with by an HP printer. I was more pointing out that Oblivion is a reasonable benchmark like this is an argument that a pair of sane individuals would have. Don't make me throw a cat at you. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Engels on November 08, 2009, 05:08:21 PM stuff Thanks Tarami. That describes my situation well. Maybe once I upgrade my system entirely I will reconsider what card to buy. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Hoax on November 08, 2009, 07:20:13 PM On the topic of sound cards and computer building, I feel I want to promote this card a bit, if you're fine with stereo sound: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile2496.html Hands down the cleanest, highest quality stereo sound you can get for under $150, hell, under $300 for that matter. I absolutely love mine and will never buy another bloated, shitty Creative card. I own one of these, mostly because I hate Creative's shitty shit cards with a passion. I haven't had the money to actually get some speakers to use it yet but I plan to, possibly xmas (sigh). Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Kageh on November 09, 2009, 04:02:36 AM I own one of these, mostly because I hate Creative's shitty shit cards with a passion. I haven't had the money to actually get some speakers to use it yet but I plan to, possibly xmas (sigh). I think the hardware is quite okay. Sadly, the drivers and policies concerning them are a totally different story :ye_gods: Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Mosesandstick on November 09, 2009, 04:48:13 AM Fark. I've got problems.
I can get the computer to boot. For half a second. When I only have the mobo, PSU and one stick of ram connected. And then it'll refuse to start again unless I start taking stuff out and putting it back in. Ok, managed to get the CPU to boot permanently. Connected the GPU. Turns off after half a second again. I have to connect the 24 pin connector and reconnect it everytime to get it to re-boot. I'm leaning towards it being a wonky PSU (and the first time I've bought a branded PSU... heh). Any advice? Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Kageh on November 09, 2009, 05:27:02 AM Not sure, doesn't sound like the usual PSU troubles I know.
If you clear CMOS after a failed boot, does that help like disconnecting the 24-pin connector? Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Mosesandstick on November 09, 2009, 05:47:09 AM That did something. I think I might be able to get it work. Thanks.
I tried the magic method of taking everything out, reconnecting everything and putting it back in. Seems to be working so far. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Murgos on November 09, 2009, 07:30:19 AM Murgos: Yes, (http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1050052&hl=) I (http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1042633&hl=) alone (http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1040012&hl=) found (http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1011232&hl=) and (http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1005264&hl=) corrected (http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=997008&hl=) this. (http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=960857&hl=) Will that suffice? Or should I hit up the modding and community sites too? Will you also need a search for Realtek audio? Bethesda's sound engine is bad. The sound files are all excessively high quality. And onboard audio unloads large quantities of floating-point math on your processor proportional to the size and number of sound effects. Point one and two should not have ever occurred, because point three is inevitable in consumer computers. Sky's problem with the Auzentech is probably Codec or driver related, which doesn't surprise me coming from a game that can be interfered with by an HP printer. I was more pointing out that Oblivion is a reasonable benchmark like this is an argument that a pair of sane individuals would have. Don't make me throw a cat at you. Point 1, is the point I made. If point 1 didn't happen points 2 and 3 are inconsequential. I played Oblivion with Real-Tek onboard sound without the issues linked, I've only ever used on-baord sound since it became standard. Again, because a few people had problems that could be partially addressed with lower quality sound/turning off sound effects doesn't mean that the sound files were the actual problem. Chances are their problems were actually tied to some other third party software installed in their system at the time. 16 bit, 44kHz samples are not the issue. Edit: To be absolutely clear. The AC'97 specification from Intel requires that parts can move 12 channels @ 960 kbps of raw PCM data. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Mosesandstick on November 09, 2009, 08:25:37 AM Ok I'm pretty sure that my something between my mobo and PSU is shorting - I have really no clue what though. Any advice?
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Nebu on November 09, 2009, 08:28:42 AM Ok I'm pretty sure that my something between my mobo and PSU is shorting - I have really no clue what though. Any advice? Check out the comments on THIS THREAD. (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=18187.0) Some good advice there. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Kageh on November 09, 2009, 09:41:03 AM Ok I'm pretty sure that my something between my mobo and PSU is shorting - I have really no clue what though. Any advice? If you leave the rather obvious stuff aside (screws/solder pins making contact with the motherboard or the metal tray or something like this, where the manufacturing has to have really fucked up), it should be one of the components you have connected. CPU pins, a ram bank, the PCI-E connector, somewhere like that. And my favorite, which, I kid you not, happened to me on my $300 i7 board: The CMOS battery was put in the wrong way. By ASUS. From the manufacturer. I accidentally noticed that in a googled picture, or otherwise I would have despaired. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Mosesandstick on November 09, 2009, 12:45:05 PM I *think* it was one of the screws mounting the mobo to the case. Not kidding. There's a pretty good chance it was something else, but now that it's finally working I'm not going to try and replicate it. I'm sure it'll crop up the next time I accidently kick the computer.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Murgos on November 09, 2009, 12:51:57 PM I *think* it was one of the screws mounting the mobo to the case. Not kidding. There's a pretty good chance it was something else, but now that it's finally working I'm not going to try and replicate it. I'm sure it'll crop up the next time I accidently kick the computer. This is actually pretty common. If one shifts a little bit it can cause a short to ground (the case is ground, so the edge of a screw that touches a lead and touches the case bridges the gap) for which, if you are lucky, the system will just refuse to start up. If you're unlucky the magic blue smoke gets out. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Hoax on November 09, 2009, 12:58:34 PM I had that happen once, fully my fault I had a spacer in the wrong place. Thank god it wasn't a cheapo mobo that would have shit itself and caught fire but that is a mistake I will not ever let happen again.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Sheepherder on November 10, 2009, 02:41:29 AM Chances are their problems were actually tied to some other third party software installed in their system at the time. 16 bit, 44kHz samples are not the issue. Edit: To be absolutely clear. The AC'97 specification from Intel requires that parts can move 12 channels @ 960 kbps of raw PCM data. Going from a Sigmatel AC'97 variant to an Audigy 2 cleared my problems completely with no other hardware or software changes except that which is entailed by such an upgrade. Either the common vendors of onboard audio are putting out unusually shitty drivers even for audio devices, or something else is going on. I'd imagine that something else is writing sound operations to the SIMD registers which also happen to be doing physics operations at the same moment, which neatly sidesteps your bandwidth objection, because it has nothing to do with bandwidth and everything to do with processing speed and intrinsically slow calculations. But that's an uneducated guess. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Sky on November 10, 2009, 06:51:01 AM If nvidia was still making boards with soundstorm, I'd still be using onboard sound. DD5.1 optical hardware on the board? Hell yeah.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Sheepherder on November 10, 2009, 08:29:43 AM Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Sky on November 10, 2009, 09:16:12 AM And auzentech was the only other provider I know of that did hardware DD encoding and had an HDCP digital path. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Sheepherder on November 10, 2009, 06:14:02 PM Am I missing the DD5.1 hardware? I was under the impression that onboard sound does DD5.1 through software codecs. The soundstorm had a licensed DD5.1 chip onboard to do real time hardware encoding, thanks to nvidia's deal with dolby for the xbox. Okay, assuming both I and you know what we are saying, that's *significantly* different. Almost to the point of not being a real onboard sound device at all. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Tebonas on November 13, 2009, 08:48:39 AM Fuckers!
I got my whole rig ready to be set up, and there are no Radeon 5850 available for at least 3 weeks, average wait time 1 to 3 months. WTF? Do these cards cure cancer??? Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Cyrrex on November 13, 2009, 11:17:40 AM Fuckers! I got my whole rig ready to be set up, and there are no Radeon 5850 available for at least 3 weeks, average wait time 1 to 3 months. WTF? Do these cards cure cancer??? No, but they are so powerful that they may be causing cancer. They need FDA approval. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Tebonas on November 13, 2009, 12:04:33 PM Oh well, seems I have to pollute my sweet new ride with my old 9800GTX+ for a while, 5870s are sold out as well.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Kageh on November 13, 2009, 01:35:34 PM I think I saw a grand total of about 30 cards on sale across all the "nerdy" retailers that I know here. And that was 1 month ago. Never seen any new stock since.
Apparently ATI has promised better availability "soon" though. My guess was that they rushed them out the door panicked to not be beaten again by NVIDIAs Fermi, and now that they have seen Fermi is still Vaporware they are going to keep supply really low for a while, and then throw lots on the market in time for Christmas. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: ghost on November 13, 2009, 10:53:26 PM Is there a particular video card that anyone would recommend? Say if price isn't that important.
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Kageh on November 14, 2009, 01:28:06 AM You can't really go wrong with ATI 5870/5850 currently, if you manage to get your hands on one. They are the two fastest single GPU cards available, support DX11 and are fast, relavitely quiet and power-efficient.
Next to that, I'd say GTX 275 or GTX 295 from NVIDIA, the latter if you don't mind dealing with SLI configurations. The GTX 275 is easily comparable to the GTX 285 - the fastest single GPU offering from NVIDIA currently - for noticeably less money. Performance-wise, the GTX 295 can give the 5870 a run for the money if the game supports SLI. Except for the minor detail that the 5870 is one GPU and still has reserves for being crossfire-linked with another. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: OcellotJenkins on November 20, 2009, 06:09:56 AM I just placed an order for my new build which will be the first since 2004. This thread was a good starting point for me after being out of the loop so long. I feel these parts will suit my needs well for the foreseeable future:
Intel Core i5-750 2.66GHz Quad-Core Processor ASUS P7P55D LE LGA Motherboard Sapphire Vapor-X 100269VXL Radeon HD 4890 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 Video Card Corsair XMS3 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 1600 SDRAM Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro CPU Cooler Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 7200 RPM Hard Drive With thermal paste, a couple of new fans, tax and shipping, it was still under $1000. Edit: I just wanted to say that I'm very pleased with this new build. It's by far the quietest machine I've ever built. I usually have no interest in overclocking but decided to bring the BLCK on this to 140 and DRAM to 1400 (putting the CPU at about 3.0 ghz). This resulted in a rather noticeable improvement, presumably from the increased memory read/write performance. With a more expensive CPU cooler, the i5 can be pushed to 4.2 ghz from what I've read. This is just a great set of components for the money right now. I appreciate the input people have shared in this thread. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Draegan on April 21, 2011, 08:44:43 AM Neeeeeeeeeeecro for help
I'm looking to build a new rig in the next 2-4 months. I haven't really been following the latest hardware trends over the last year or so and I was hoping some one can fill me in. I'm not looking for a specific build (unless you like to do it), but I'm looking to see what the trends are and what may or may not be a good deal in the months to come. Looking for future proof stuff, dual graphic cards, 8 GB memory, SSDrives, what the latest trends are in cpu/mobos. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Shrike on April 21, 2011, 09:41:13 AM So money is no object and complexity doesn't faze you? Say no more.
Firstly, case and PSU. Case is almost personal preference, but cool is a big deal and the Silverstone FT02 is about as cool as it gets--in every sense of the word. Don't screw around on the power supply. Seasonic is where it's at. Minimum 750 watt, if you want to future proof and/or are serious about SLI, then get the 850. That should be enough for anything short of 8xHDDs or quad SLI. Since you specified 8gig of memory, I'd do that and up it to 12 and go with the 2600K SB CPU. This one has hyperthreading. If that's seems a bit much the 2500 is about as good and 8gigs would be more than sufficient for it. Mobo should be P67 based--for now. Doesn't much matter what, but I'm rather partial to Gigabyte these days. If you're going to OC (and these OC very nicely), get an aftermarket cooler. Room on the mobo will probably be the deciding factor of what you actually go with. SLI or Crossfire. This I don't particularly approve of, but if you don't mind the extra hassle it'll make that FT02 case more worthwhile. Some of this depends on your monitor. I'm going to assume you aren't afraid to spend money and want to go BIG. 2x580GTXs. Get the 3gig models from EVGA when they come out end of this month/early May. If $1200 in vid cards really bothers you, the next best thing is two 6970s. Lots of memory and a helluva lot cheaper ($750-850). Not quite as fast, but I wouldn't get too excited over the difference. If you're still at the 1080p or 1920x1200 level and don't plan on moving anytime soon, then 2x560GTXs (heavily overclocked) or 2x6870s are a lot easier on the wallet. At that res, though, I'd personally just shitcan the multiple vid cards and go with a single 580 or 6970. I like the idea of SSDs, but don't like their pricing. One 128gig for the system (and WoW, if you care about that) and a good, fast 1tb HDD should cover things nicely (WD black or maybe Samsung F3). I don't trust anything from OCZ anymore, so I'd go Intel or Crucial for the SSD for now. Corsair might have something new soon. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Sky on April 21, 2011, 09:52:56 AM Just wed and allowed to build a new pc? Win! :drill:
Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Draegan on April 21, 2011, 10:20:30 AM Just wed and allowed to build a new pc? Win! :drill: Hah, well she wants another $1,000 ring to match the one she got on "Day 1", so I said fine, I'm going to build a new PC. Win. In any case my budget is around $2000 or so, and I already have monitors. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Draegan on April 21, 2011, 10:30:04 AM So money is no object and complexity doesn't faze you? Say no more. Firstly, case and PSU. Case is almost personal preference, but cool is a big deal and the Silverstone FT02 is about as cool as it gets--in every sense of the word. Don't screw around on the power supply. Seasonic is where it's at. Minimum 750 watt, if you want to future proof and/or are serious about SLI, then get the 850. That should be enough for anything short of 8xHDDs or quad SLI. Since you specified 8gig of memory, I'd do that and up it to 12 and go with the 2600K SB CPU. This one has hyperthreading. If that's seems a bit much the 2500 is about as good and 8gigs would be more than sufficient for it. Mobo should be P67 based--for now. Doesn't much matter what, but I'm rather partial to Gigabyte these days. If you're going to OC (and these OC very nicely), get an aftermarket cooler. Room on the mobo will probably be the deciding factor of what you actually go with. SLI or Crossfire. This I don't particularly approve of, but if you don't mind the extra hassle it'll make that FT02 case more worthwhile. Some of this depends on your monitor. I'm going to assume you aren't afraid to spend money and want to go BIG. 2x580GTXs. Get the 3gig models from EVGA when they come out end of this month/early May. If $1200 in vid cards really bothers you, the next best thing is two 6970s. Lots of memory and a helluva lot cheaper ($750-850). Not quite as fast, but I wouldn't get too excited over the difference. If you're still at the 1080p or 1920x1200 level and don't plan on moving anytime soon, then 2x560GTXs (heavily overclocked) or 2x6870s are a lot easier on the wallet. At that res, though, I'd personally just shitcan the multiple vid cards and go with a single 580 or 6970. I like the idea of SSDs, but don't like their pricing. One 128gig for the system (and WoW, if you care about that) and a good, fast 1tb HDD should cover things nicely (WD black or maybe Samsung F3). I don't trust anything from OCZ anymore, so I'd go Intel or Crucial for the SSD for now. Corsair might have something new soon. I'm not going to budget out that much for the graphics cards, though I haven't put a solid number on cash to spend yet, I have a $2000 number in mind. I'm still running 1080s and don't plan to get anything better until maybe next year or later unfortunately. For drives I'm looking at 2 SSD, one for the OS, one for gaming, and then standard HDD for storage. I already have about 3 TB of external hard disk space at home anyway so that's not a major issue at the moment. I'm not into over clocking anymore, but I don't mind tinkering with it. Used to love doing that back in the day. OC'ing my 700 MHz chip to hit 1Ghz back in '98 or '99 was fun. Don't see the point in it these days as I'm not that much of an enthusiast anymore. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: MisterNoisy on April 21, 2011, 10:53:32 AM Unless you're doing a lot of video encoding or other computationally heavy tasks, I'd probably stick with the i5-2500K (the 2600K won't net you any extra performance in games compared to the 2500K (http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/287?vs=288)) on P67 and 8GB of RAM. The extra $100 saved by going with the 2500K instead of the 2600K can be used on your SSDs, which are still pretty pricey relative to the amount of storage you get.
As for video, I'd look at the HD6970 2GB or GTX570 depending on how you feel about ATI vs nVidia. To be honest, my GTX560ti tears through pretty much anything at 1080p, so much more than the next step up is probably way overkill (not that there's anything wrong with overkill). You can then add a second card in SLI/XFire later on when your video demands escalate. I really like ASUS and MSI boards, and the P8P67 Pro (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131703) is right at the sweet spot for performance and features for the price. You can spend more, but you start hitting diminishing returns pretty fast above that price point. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Draegan on April 21, 2011, 11:05:46 AM I will eventually be dabbling in higher than 1080 resolution soon(tm) so I will want a graphics card that will be able to handle high resolutions a year or so after I purchase this.
Thanks for the posts. Title: Re: New Computer Build, advice requested Post by: Shrike on April 22, 2011, 11:05:39 AM Yeah, if you don't want to blow megabucks, I"d just get a single 6970 or 580GTX. They can handle 2560x1600 just fine and will probably be OK through this next round of games coming out. That's essentially what I'll be getting this July when I build my next box. I like slamming sliders to the right, so I like big frame buffers, but if worse came to worse, a 1.5gig 580 or the 2gig 6970 would be adequate for what I'll be doing for the next couple of years.
Also, if you need more, adding a second card is relatively simple (if annoying). Here, though, you do have to think about your PSU a bit. A good 750 can probably handle 2x580s without any problem, but it might be best to come up with a few more bucks initally and just get a 850 watt. The AMD cards are a bit better on power consumption, so anything that can handle 580s is golden for them. |