f13.net

Well title says it all really. I've applied for the local county police Dept and while I've passed the written test the physical ones that are coming up aren't doable by me right now.  I have 3-4 months tops before I'll have to take the first exam (mile and a half run in 15min,25 sit ups in one min, bench 70% body mass, sit and reach) Fairly simple stuff really but I'm a guy that spent the last several years playing wow.

I have access to a small gym via my apt complex and am going to be getting some fast walking/running in.  Right now I'm 5'11, 220lbs and while I don't eat a fast food and there's some muscle there I am just plain out of shape.

So, is 3-4 months possible, can you help?

Cool.  Good luck with everything! 

Other than that, I can't help you.   :grin:

Three best suggestions:

1) Join a local gym and get a trainer.

2) Get P90x and prepare to have your balls busted.  See THIS THREAD. (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=15770.0)

3) Buy THIS BOOK (http://www.amazon.com/Body-Life-Mental-Physical-Strength/dp/0060193395) and follow it to the letter.  

It is very possible. The US Army does it in 2 months. Odds are you won't spend the bulk of your day in a Basic Training style regimen, but with the extra time you should have no problem.

You know the exact exercises you need to pass apparently, so focus on them every day and push yourself hard and you will get there. I went into BT at 5'10" and 220lbs, came out at 5'10" and 182 lbs and passed the physical stuff with ease. Anecdotal, but I hated running and wasn't in shape and that didn't seem to stop them from making me run, and run damn fast.  :grin:

Good luck.

Start off slow, walk a mile or two at a slow pace a few times a week. After that week try to jog a minute for every 2 you walk. Slowly ramp up the distance and jogging to walking ratio. You can easily walk a 10 minute mile. None of the other criteria should pose a problem if you consistently exercise and watch your calorie intake.

Most self-only workout programs fail.  If you're going to do this without the aid of a trainer, at least make sure that you have a friend/colleague to workout with.  You'll want the push on those days that you lack motivation. 

best advice on top of what others have said:

1) stop drinking.  Seriously, stop it for the time being.  Don't even bother with light beer -- train away the taste until you can make your goals

2) sleep more.  Also seriously.  Your body grows muscle tone only with sleep.  And the increased activity will make you irritable otherwise.

GL!

^ This.

Even if you dont pay a trainer or buy some video or book, get a friend to work out with. Some who is in better shape than you and who will PUSH you and bust your balls about doing your work outs.

Do 1 hour of exercise everyday. Do something.  
Preferably 3 days a week of runnning for 45 mins to 1 hour. Dont worry about speed or distance. Just keep running the whole 45 mins to 1 hour. You will naturally get faster and go longer as your cardio endurance increases. Try to add some hills or run in a hilly area. Dont run the same route every day, mix it up and keep it interesting.
3 days a week of sit ups and push ups and pull ups and butter fly kicks and lunges.
Alternate days.
Take one day a week of complete rest.

Do this for three months and you will be set with ease.

Once(if) you pass the background check and initial physical all recruits are put on crossfit for exercise until they enter the academy. Would it be fine to start with another exercise program and switch? should I start crossfit now?(im not sure if im in shape for that yet)

Depends on what you want to do.  I just bought a decent workout regiment book last night which I plan to start up with on Sunday. 

Get a friend or a trainer if you can afford it.

Or just concentrate on the tests if you don't want to get in overall good shape.  If you goto the gym 3 days a week and run 3 days a week you should be ready to go after 3-4 month depending on how you are right now.

Ummm, you can walk 1.5 miles in 15 minutes.  If you spend the next 2 months running 1 hour everyday and doing pyramid pushups you should be fine.  Maybe lift weights 3 times a week after your first month.  25 situps?  Is that a joke? 

I am actually going to be starting a workout routine at the end of this month (I gots 2 weeks vacation and will be drinking on the beach in NC, hence the delay) - keep us posted on what you do and how you progress!

My only simple advice would be to start with cardio and body-resistance stuff (sit-ups, push-ups, star jumps, squats etc) and stretching every day before you start on resistance weights like benching. Also skipping is one of the best exercises you can do imo. Also morning is the best time to exercise by all accounts.

Look after your immune system while you do this, particularly if you're running your own training (a professional trainer should incorporate looking after your immune system). This is one mistake I've made in the past as a cyclist when going from zero fitness to peak fitness in a few months. Overtraining runs down your immune system and even if you feel fit and are losing weight, you can end up catching whatever sickness is going around and being unable to exercise, which sets back your goals.

This. 

Over-training, under-eating, and not sleeping enough are the only reasons that I get sick anymore.  I'm a huge fan of taking vitamin B and C every morning if not a acomplete multivitamin. 

The best other advice I can give you would be dietary. 

1) eat 5-6 small meals a day. Breakfast is a must and never eat after 8pm.

2) Eliminate refined carbs.  Only eat whole grains as your carbs

3) drink only water.  About 1 gallon a day.

What is the biking equivalent to 1 hour of jogging, or is it about 1:1?

How old are you?

It's more like 2:3 with jogging burning more calories per unit time. It's also easy to cheat cycling so it helps to use a heart rate monitor.

Jesus Christ, I know Cheddar already said this, but you can speed walk 1.5 miles in 15 minutes.  220 at 5'11 is fat but not morbidly obese.  What's your deal?  Are you just a huge pussy?  You're worried about sit and reach?  I love how the biggest washed up losers always become cops.  By the way, quick poll, how many geniuses can you think of that became policemen?  Go ahead.  Everyone close your eyes and think of all the great minds throughout history that got into law enforcement. 

I think I've made my point.

I've no idea about cycling vs jogging, but jogging is definitely the more intense activity on flat land. But if you do road cycling like me, you're covering vast distances compared with joggers and the energy you burn depends on where you go. I have a 45 minute hilly commute to work on my bike and it's a real workout. If I spent 45 minutes going round the local preferred flat cycling route, I'd burn much less.

2nd guy from the right. First Police Commissioner of NY City.

(http://www.welcometothepond.com/American%20Symbols%20WebQuest/mountrushmore.jpg)

Jesus Christ.  No wonder we have so many fatass cops.  25 sit ups in a minute?  Don't strain yourself Bubba.  And a 15 minute mile???  That's fucking walking speed.

ETA:  Sorry about repeating what's already been said.  These qualifications make the Army's "old guy" standards (ie, 35 and over) which even old guys admit are a joke, look respectable in comparison.  I've also let my latent cop-hatred creep in.  For this, I do not apologize.  Cops are scum.  Lazy, braindead, short-dicked, power-tripping scum.  I wholly endorse bad things happening to them.

You usually do.

What the fuck is wrong with some of you people?  A guy comes here to ask for help in attaining a goal and you toss out abuse. 

Christ, are you all really that insecure? 

Jesus fucking Christ what is wrong with some of you people?  Why the hell does his intended profession have anything to do with what was asked?

How about you pretend it was written this way and see if it really makes any difference:

Well title says it all really. I'm an accountant (and I sit most of the day) and I'd really like to start getting in shape. I've given myself 3-4 months tops to achieve the following goals (mile and a half run in 15min,25 sit ups in one min, bench 70% body mass, sit and reach) Fairly simple stuff really but I'm a guy that spent the last several years playing wow.

I have access to a small gym via my apt complex and am going to be getting some fast walking/running in.  Right now I'm 5'11, 220lbs and while I don't eat a fast food and there's some muscle there I am just plain out of shape.

So, is 3-4 months possible, can you help?

EDIT: Damn you Nebu! :wink:

It's 1.5 miles in 15 minutes.

For the mathematically inept, that's a speed of 6mph, which is about average jogging speed (about twice as fast as average walking speed). 

Even when I was 16 and in okay shape I'd have had trouble with that; we had to do a 10-minute mile in my high school gym class once and I was ready to collapse afterward.  Nowadays they'd probably have to call me an ambulance after the first quarter mile, assuming my knees didn't give out before then.

Reading comprehension is hard.

This test is just to get into the door and has nothing to do with the police academy or the crossfit training they require you to do afterwards. You need to be in very good shape to 'become' an officer. That said, I don't think there are tests and physicals after you become one which is why many get out of shape I'm sure.

Thanks for the advice, things like getting anough rest and eating right are probably not what first came to mind so that'll help a lot.

I certainly couldn't do any running of that sort, even when I was my fittest.  My knees have always been shit and anything longer than a few hundred meters of running feels like you're slamming me with a hammer.   It's one of the reasons I swam instead of did any sport involving running.

Still pathetic.  This is coming from a guy who has been out for 4 years, is 35, and smokes like a chimney.

Check the source. It's really not a big surprise. 

That being said, further abuse (in either direction) will land in a forum far below this one.  I'm not going to stick this in politics. Let's try to be helpful.

How?  I'd think it was common sense.  Start running, doing pushups, and situps.  There's nothing magical about this.

Most of them? Yes. I even got ridiculous PMs from some of them based on what I have written thus far in this thread.

Maybe start playing a sport of some sort as well. I'm the kind of person who donesn't really enjoy doing exercise for the sake of it, but find it fun to play games.

As long as you don't play in a leageu that has a standard too high for your current fitness it should be fun and useful.

Did you miss the "Hey, sleep and nutrition, what a novel idea!" post by Lakov?  Did you miss the fact that more people are obese in the U.S. than not..? Let me rephrase: were you born an asshole or do you practice at it?

Back to topic: don't obsess over the scale too much, chances are you are not going to be losing a large amount of weight and keeping it off, as humans are genetically predisposed towards a certain weight with their metabolism altering based on nutritional intake and energy requirement.  If you do want to drop the flab do a lot of brisk walking, your body burns lipids during lighter activity and burns carbohydrates when you are doing heavy activity.  Fat loses more energy in the process of conversion into something usable by your body and is only metabolized when your body is at a state where you don't need extreme efficiency, there's probably literature out there suggesting an ideal heart rate for burning fat.

Ok man, those entry requirements are WAY doable in 3-4 months, even if you are completely de-conditioned; it's not like you you are walking around at 350 pounds.  First of all you need to not ask this question on a game-nerd board.  With that caveat, I would suggest-

1. Get your diet in order. 

All those requirements you listed could be attained in 3-4 weeks(probably less for some of them), not months, at your current weight and conditioning level. Just try cutting out as much processed crap as you can.  As someone pointed out, cut the alcohol, and on top of that cut the sodas, and chips and cookies, etc.  If you have basic cooking skills, eat all the veggies/meat/eggs you want.  Just doing this will work wonders. 

The reason you will want to lose some bodyfat is...

2.  Crossfit - Start reading/asking around on the Crossfit board.

I said that the entry requirements you listed were easy at your current stats, but Crossfit will kick your ass.  Seriously, some of those WoDs look like hell.  If you can't do pullups, you better get familiar with them, because guys in Crossfit do tons of pullups. 

I'm sure there is material over there on how to work up to that level, and there are people over there to tell you about their experiences.

3.  Listen to the guys who said to do some pullups/pushups/running

You don't need a gym, and this will help you both towards the minimum conditioning and beginning the Crossfit stuff.  I'd add in some sprints or burpees(squat-thrusts are fine too, since you are already doing pushups) for conditioning. 

I'm not a fan of long distance running anymore, but you are at least going to have to have your joints be able to handle the running, which is why I wouldn't suggest substituting cycling, as someone else did.  1.5 miles is not far at all, but if you have been sitting for years, it will be a shock to your knees (especially if you are overweight). 

Don't bother with fast-walking on its own -  just run until your feel uncomfortable, and walk until you feel like you can run some more.  Keep doing that until you are just running (the sprints/burpees will help with that).  In my experience, when I have started running from being completely de-conditioned, my joints and connective tissue lagged way behind my cardio-vasacular system in adapting to the exercise.

I weep for the obese people.  We had a way of taking care of them in the Army, and it we called it "The Fat Man's Farm".  Trust me when I say that you did not want to get sent there.  The drill sergeants that ran it weren't big on sleep, or easing your way into a fitness regimen.

So my advice if you're tubby is to get off your fat ass and run.  Yes, I know it will be unpleasant.  Get over it.

Dude.  F13.  You seriously expected something else?

Just wondering if it's ok to have a small meal (cup of soup or bread w/ jam) before ending the day? I've had problems adapting to 'no meals after 8' rule since the pain is quite noticable.

Getting fit is like dieting and giving up smoking - you need to find a way that works for *you*.

What works for other people may work for you, it may not. You know what you can put up with and what you can't. Example - I hate gyms. Hate hate hate. Gym workouts bore me to tears. But I can use a cross-trainer in front of my own TV no problems.

Given the time pressure you're under you might need to push yourself a bit to overcome reluctances, for instance if you detest running, well, you're gonna have to bite that bullet given the entrance test requirements, but find a way to run that you hate the least. Whether that means running through a nice park with a mp3 player on or running in a gym being encouraged by an instructor, whatever, but find what causes you the least mental anguish.

The reason that you don't want to eat before bed is that you will undergo your greatest conversion of food calories to stored fat while sleeping.  It's best, for weight loss, to go to sleep with no food in your stomach.  

Here's something I used to tell patients:  If you feel hungry, drink a glass of water.  If you still feel hungry, then eat something small until those feelings diminish.  Believe it or not, many people confuse the thirst and hunger sensations.  They also haven't learned to eat until you stop feeling hungry rather than eating until you feel full.  The first is the better way to go and can often be accomplished by eating high bulk, lower calorie foods (veggies or whole grains).  

Hope that helps.  

If you're still hungry at night, I would stick to Nebu's advice and look to a glass of water.  I might follow that up with a few pieces of celery or carrots just to take up some space.

BTW stone mountain in Georgia is a great hike both going up and down. Kicked my ass in some really steep parts but it was really fun with all the different changes in terrain and a great view.

It's not just pain you see, I get really nauseous and suffer increasing headaches till i eat some bread at times.

See a physician.  You may be a diabetic. 

Humans (in good working order) can survive as many as 30 days without food.  A problem like you suggest means that you're suffering from an endocrine or metabolic disorder. 

I get a nice sugar crash if I eat a big bowl of cereal (maple shredded wheats) and then forget to eat lunch. I solve it by imbibing maple syrup, works every time!  :grin:

My fiancee gets horrified by this. Apparently I'm an elf.

Nebu's advice regarding eating till you're no longer hungry is what helped me lose a ton of weight last year.

I was finding that 5-6 meals a day was working really well for me.  After a week of timing it (3 hours apart), I started finding that my body was naturally getting hungry every 2-3 hours anyways. 

Just eat enough till you don't feel those hunger pangs, and BOOM, you lose weight.

But God help you if one of your friends should own a bakery with her delicious fruit tarts....ugh.

Necro update!

So, just over two months...wow, I thought it was three!  First off let me thank everyone for their advice, some of it was invaluable.  Though the very first piece of advice should have been get an ipod(got a shuffle cheap) because treadmills irl like MMO's are painful without music.

It turns out that I didn't have three or four months to get in shape, I was contacted mid-july after having passed the background check to come in and take the physical. The bad news is at that point I wasn't quite ready but the good news is I was able to put my application on hold for up to a year if I needed it to get in shape.

Since I last posted here I've been going to the local gym in my apt complex 6 days a week no exceptions. I do 45min on the treadmill and elliptical, going as hard as I can then slow but not stopping then at home doing as many sit-ups, push-ups and curls(20lb, then 30lb dumb bells) as I could.  

I think I've pulled and sprained every part of my legs at some point but they've healed and I'm feeling a lot better, I've also been eating right(cut out all restaurant food but subway specials) and I'm down from 220lbs to 192-93

Now I can
-run a mile and a half in 14:29(I just sort of figured out how to breathe right in the last couple days)
-Do 29 sit ups in a minute(probably 35-40)
-Deadlift 70% of my weight(at first I read it as bench press....apparently there's a HUGE difference there)
-Reach two inches past my toes(surprisingly still not easy)

So, with all this I'm going to give the investigator a call next friday and tell them to re-activate me which will means I'll be taking the physical right after...

Wish me luck?

That's great progress, well done! It sounds like you have put in the effort and it's paying off, I wish you good luck with your coming test.

Hell yeah, that's awesome. Good luck!

Well done man. That is good progress and I bet you also feel better mentally for having done it.

I know what you mean about learning to breathe right. In climbing hills on a bicycle, out of the saddle, keeping up cadence, I've learned that my breathing is driven by exhalation, not inhalation. Each breath for me is about expelling carbon dioxide, then my lungs just suck fresh air in.

Good luck with the physical.

I'll wish you good luck as well, and thanks for necro'ing this as I missed it the first time through.

I found Nebu's comment on the immune system really interesting, as I have always found that anytime I'd start up a new exercise regimine I'd usually end up catching a cold. I always assumed it was just due to exposing myself to a gym environment and everyone's germs.

So what's the simplest advice for boosting one's immune system before starting up a new routine? I'm seriously considering it, as I helped some friends push a car about 300 feet yesterday and nearly collapsed from the effort. Yay, office job!

Protein, which a lot of people use as a supplement for muscle building, has been shown to boost immune system performance.  I don't know how much you need for you immune system, but experts recommend somewhere around 1 to 1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight per day.  So if you weigh 150 pounds, you would take between 150 and 225 grams per day.  You won't likely get that much via a normal diet, but shakes and/or protein bars will help you get there.  Be aware that there is an associated increase in cholesterol intake.

Also eat your greens and fruit, i.e. keep up a balanced diet. Eating fruit is also good before/during exercise because researchers say fructose (the sugar in fruit) is preferable to sucrose (standard sugar). See the old sporting standard of sucking on quarter oranges at half time. Cycling tip: bananas!

Another great thing about fruit is that it tends to be very low density calories...i.e. you can eat a shitload of it without actually consuming a lot of calories.  Good for getting rid of the hungry feeling when you're trying to trim down.

I can agree with this before exercise, but after exercise I would think that glucose is preferred.  You need the quick spike in blood glucose to minimize catabolism of muscle. 

Status report.

Sept 8th was my physical.

Weighing in at 190 with clothes and shoes(down from 220)

First up was bench pressing 70% of my weight(not dead lift as i thought)  138lbs was surprisingly easy and since I only had to do it once, was no big deal. However of the four people taking the test that day, the woman who was there was unable to complete it, very embarrassing situation.

After that is was the sit and reach. Two inches past your toes....though I'd been stretching, this was a lot harder than I'd thought. I hit the mark exactly but just barely. I could have taken off my shoes to help though, so not too bad I suppose.

Then it was the sit ups, 29 in one minute.  By far the easiest, since I am now doing 70 sit ups a night. So nothing eventful there, though since ive still got fat to work off, i think i started surprising the others there.

After all that we drove from the headquarters to a nearby school to use their track. Only three of the applicants were there, the lady having been disqualified. So myself at 29 years, an older man, perhaps 40 with a gut and a younger, buff asian kid.  The goal was doing a mile and a half in the afternoon sun in under 14:29 seconds, which was 6 laps around the track. 

This was actually much harder than I thought and by far the hardest thing about this test. Running outside in the sun is much MUCH harder than on a treadmill, to a degree I was not expecting. After 3 months, 45 min a day, 6 days a week on the gym though my muscles were ready enough. I kept pace with the younger asian guy most of the time, the older gent behind us.  At about the third and fifth lap I did have to slow, walk for 15sec and catch my breath but even after that, I was able to keep up with the asian kid since my strides were quicker overall.

In the end, turning the last corner i saw the finish and sprint the last quarter of the sixth lap. Irt wasn't a race but my mind said "fuck it, win this" and so i pushed myself hard.

In the end, I got a time of 13:13 and I passed the physical!


Afterwards it was a very stressful and intense question and answer session with four senior officers. Mostly about morals and ethics, I believe I did well but I won't know for a couple weeks if I go on to the next phase.  Until then, thanks for all the help!

Congrats man.  Way to stick with it.

Even if you don't get the job it sounds like this was a worthwhile experience.

Can't wait for the rookie cop/training academy stories.

Running on a treadmill and running outside are two completely different things.  I am surprised no one mentioned this.

It's one of those things that you "know", like the fact that every year or two, god decends in texas and destroys a few thousand cars and building windows with hail.

That's terrific, I also can't wait for the cop stories.

I find running on a treadmill much harder than running outdoors.  I think boredom plays a large role. 

Good going lakov!

I also find running on a treadmill harder, though that may be because I have to keep pace; when outside I have natural breaks at traffic lights, whenever a car tries to run  me over, etc.

Why anyone would pay a gym membership to run on a treadmill is beyond me.  I could see it if the streets were frozen or something, but running outside is more enjoyable and free.

For me personally, I find having music and a bit of solitude relaxing.

Presumably because you don't live in typical modern American suburban sprawl, where the town planners (and I use that term loosely) have decided - possibly with a little help from some automobile industry lobbyists - that since everybody has cars it isn't worth spending the money on amenities for pedestrians. Around here there are many gyms closer than the nearest public park or indeed anywhere that has sidewalks. You can literally blame thousands of heart attacks per year on a lack of decent suburban planning during the last 50 years.

I take it you don't live along the Gulf Coast.

Even women have to bench 70% of their body weight?  I cannot imagine ever being able to bench that much, even with training.  At my peak that would be at least 90 pounds, probably more because I'd need to put on a ton of muscle.

You go to a gym for solitude?  What gym are you going to?  I find a lot more solitude taking walks or running along the river parkway, listening to and smelling nature.

I go to the tiny gym in my apt complex. It's usually empty or just has a few people in the weight room.  The treadmills and elliptical are usually ignored that...and i can ocassionally watch tv, so that's nice.

Oh and yes, the test is the same for men and women. I found out though that the actual test differs from county to county with each police dept making up their own standard but I could only imagine that for legal reasons they can't have it different based on gender.

I use the treadmills at my gym for incline walking sometimes, since there are no hills in the middle of London. I also use it for warm up/down from time to time, although I prefer the bikes or ellipticals.

I really really hate running around cities too; even in the parks it isn't great. Back home I run the paths through the woods around where my folks live and that's fine though. Anything to get off hard surfaces really.

I prefer running on the road because it's a flat surface. I become very cautious on natural ground because I'm paranoid I'll sprain an ankle or something. Luckily, my town has decent sidewalks and shoulders to run along. I still get the occasional asshole on the road who decides he's not going to give me some space but for the most part it's been a great experience.

I've been doing a lot of running the past few months and am putting in about 20 miles a week, always outside or on the track. I tried running on a treadmill for the first time just to see if I could get used to it for really hot days or during the snowy winters. I ran 2 miles on the machine and got off to run another 2 miles on the track, figuring it would feel like I was flying when I was moving again. Instead I got really dizzy and nauseous, nearly throwing up after about 1/4 mile. Is it normal to require some acclimation time or am I just not cut out for stationary running?

Late to the party, but congrats on actually following through Lakov.

Well done and good luck!

I did 2x 52km "time trials" on my bicycle on the weekend, as part of training for a not-entirely-serious race along the same road two weeks from now. Feeling strong and confident after that - had to force myself to take the day off from bicycle commuting today.

Embarrassed myself when I reached the end the second time - little did I know, a shoe cleat had lost a screw and was stuck in the pedal, so when I tried to unclip and step off the pedal, it wouldn't come out, I said "oh, shit" and collapsed sideways onto the road in front of five strangers :)

As much as I'd rather not, I did say I'd let you all know. I thought the interview went well but apparently I didn't score high enough on the oral exam so that's that. I could apply to another county or back at this one in another year but I don't know, since my best wasn't good enough I'm not sure if I wouldn't just be wasting my time again.

Of course I got a letter on tuesday informing me this and on wednesday I got a phone call telling me my mother was sent to the emergncy room because she couldn't breathe but had gotten stabalized.  She has empyhsema and caught a bad cold, I was going to call her that night but I didn't want to depress her with news of my police exam. So the plan was to call her yesterday...except when I got home from work she had been taking to the ICU. She's on a respirator now and can't talk at all.

The nice little cherry on top of this shit sandwich is finding out my back up plan of joining the navy to get some experience and education is not an option since i only have a GED and they require college credits if you have one. College, which I can't even afford...

fuck my life

  :|

Sorry man.

Dang, sorry to hear that.  Here's hoping that things, on all fronts, turn around for you.

Sorry for all your problems man.  I hope your mom gets better soon.



As for the Navy thing, I'm pretty sure you can get into the Navy with a GED, cuz I have a friend in the family that did just that.  Make sure you talk to a recruiter. 

It was the recruiter that told me I needed 15 college credits.

Wow thats crazy.

Meh, Marines is better anyway!

Damn, sorry man. Hope things pick up for you soon.

Just curious...what kinds of questions did they ask on the oral exam?

Navy has higher standards than the army but both will require 15 credits if you have a GED. The army may allow GED waivers in the near future but the Navy always requires them (or at least a waiver is far more difficult to get). You can almost certainly get 15 credits at a community college while paying nothing. You can take the courses online in one quarter and be good to go. Do you have a criminal record of any type? That would be the biggest hindrance to joining up. Keep your head up you have options.

This.

I kind of assumed the oral exam was the polygraph?

Shut up.

I couldn't think of another form of non-physical test that someone couldn't achieve with more study. I was under the impression a polygraph was a standard part of screening for cops.

Sorry to hear about your recent bad news.

I guess it's not much consolation, but you've at least done a bit for your health.

I haven't taken it but one of my friends has. It's all about poise and preparation while getting grilled by several veteran police officers. My friend said it was the most intense and nerve-wracking thing he's ever experienced and he had weeks of preparation for it. Kinda like a Kobayashi Maru test where they don't much care about the answers, it's more your poise and reasoning under pressure.

You must be thinking about something else. A polygraph is a sensitive deal,its a calm dude asking you simple questions. If you are all amped up they are not going to be able to detect the minute changes they are looking for. The test isn't about keeping your cool (well it is but thats incidental),its about do you have obvious physiological changes that corresponding to you lying. They ask you a couple of questions whose answer is obvious. And go from there,I believe its also inaccurate to the point of almost being pseudo-science.

Somewhere someone jumped to a conclusion and I can't find the reason for it.  :awesome_for_real:

We know what a polygraph test is.  We don't understand where you went from an oral examination to polygraph.  It's a committee grilling the dude on a variety of topics, much like a qualifier for an advanced degree or, y'know, interviews.  It's a common, nerve-wracking format.

Montague has it about right. It was a lot of hypothetical questions, life experience and also personality stuff.  I think where I went wrong is that my natural reaction to aggressive questions is to try not to offend. I probably came off as a bit wishy-washy when asked things like "if your were a cop already, would you get another police officer in trouble if a woman came up and accused them of harrassment" of course i would report them, it'd be my job but i don't think i was assertive enough in my answers.

...and i mentioned online games. :facepalm: they were asking about what accomplishments have you had as part of a team and fuck, I never played sports so I had nothing and sort of panicked. At the end of the interview I was also asked if I had any questions and I didn't.  I should have been more prepared for that and taken the time to really make a good statement about myself.

Live and learn I guess. I don't know what to do right now though...maybe try for another county, maybe try and get some easy college credits(however you do that) but right now I'm just feeling pretty defeated overall.

15 credits is 1 semester of college.

Apply and tell them you have no money and would like financial aid.  If you actually have no money you will get grants enough to pay for the classes, your books and some pocket cash.

Then join the Army or Navy and ask to be an MP, in 4 years get out and THEN go be a cop.

Your answer to the reporting a peer should have been, "I would tell her to take her complaint to the precinct/station house. My job as a fellow cop is not internal affairs and its none of my business."  If you said anything different you fucked yourself.

You used online games as an example of team work and accomplishments? Yeah....you fucked yourself.

Try applying for the NYPD. Much easier process to get in. Hell you can even have a criminal record as long as you plea bargained your felonies down to misdemeanors.

I'm unclear as to whether this takes place before or after you're expected to have studied police procedure in depth, but if it's before then it seems like a reasonable thing for someone unfamiliar with the procedure to believe it's their duty to take down the complaint and report it to the proper channels.

I don't know what answer I would have given but I absolutely wouldn't have told a bunch of cops sitting in review of me that I would rat them out at the first hint of a complaint.

"I would have said, "Blow me, sugartits. Then get me a cup of joe.""

"Welcome to the force."

A huge plus in the oral exam is also showing initiative towards that career path.  If you go in with the attitude that you are prepared and this is already your chosen career regardless of the interview outcome the interviewers will pick up on that.  If however they get the impression that you want to do this but if you don't get this break right here, right now then you will probably give up then I seriously doubt they will give it to you.

Community College is not overly expensive, as murgos said there is financial aid and/or student loans.  Go to community college register for some general ed prereqs but also include at least one or 2 classes that will show that you are persuing this as a career option.  Take an EMT course, a self defense class, psychology 101, is there a conflict management speech class?  

Not only will this set you up for the military option but if you do get another interview it will help show that you have made your career decision and are not waiting on the outcome of an interview to make it for you.  I would guess this will also have a positive impact on your self confidence level during the interview.

I had a similar experience with the fire dept and/or joining the coast guard when I was around 20, instead of taking the above advice and doing either one I pretty much just pissed away an entire decade doing 60+ hours a week of menial jobs, if I had it all to do over again this would be at the top of the list of things I would have done differently.

See below.


The end.

As Murgos said, 15 credits is a full load for a semester of college.  Ask the recruiter if they're looking for anything specific.  If they aren't, you can probably get away with any intro courses offered by your local Community College, which should be so fuckstupid simple an 8th grader should pass.  If you've been working in a semi-skilled job you might even be able to get a college or university to recognize your work experience as credits, which is why my Dad can teach Tech. Ed after spending five years of his working life underwater and most of the rest inside fires. :awesome_for_real:

I advise some 30+ college students a year.  My advice to them is exactly what you are seeing in this thread.

You are your own best investment. 

Head to the local community college and take classes that interest you.  If you can't afford it, take out a loan.  Doing what you enjoy for the rest of your life is well worth the small debt you'll pick up right now. 

Well, you have to hope you have some pretty mainstream or academic interests. I'd like to go back and finish my studio engineering degree, but the closest school I could do it at isn't a community college, and it's in Potsdam (Crane School of Music).

And this is why no one likes cops. A bunch of fat schlubs and skinny new fish who want to make an impression make a fraternity post community college because they never got time in a fraternity and then they get given guns.

It's absolutely shocking why the only time a cop is wanted around is when someone wants someone who is legally allowed to use deadly force than necessary and otherwise are nothing but the vermin of the roads and too dumb for words.

They aren't all bad.  I mean, sometimes they direct traffic.

:headscratch:

Yea, he's right.  What kind of person wants to make a career out of fucking other people over.  You can convince yourself that you're being altruistic, but you're not. 

Lakov should look at this as a blessing in disguise.  Go to college.  Do NOT join the Marines.  (I know of what I speak.)

If you want some money, and get college paid for, *and* have time to go to college, the local Air National Guard is a great bet.

You don't need college credits. They'll train you for a specific job (you get to pick the job out of the available ones), you only go in 1 weekend a month plus 1 90 day deployment every 2 years or so. You get GI Bill money for living (not a lot, but some - more if you go on deployments) plus in-state tuition assistance from the Guard (90-100% tuition covered).

Plus you can get a cash bonus on sign up if you go for a critical job they need filled.

More info here:

http://www.goang.com/benefits/

But your State's ANG website will have specific information plus enlisted positions that are open.

Does anybody know why after 3 months of running 5km (3.1 miles) 3 times a week I haven't lost any weight? I have a bmi of 25 which is rather average but I'm sure I can lose some pounds.
I don't really want to lose weight, I don't diet and live a rather burgundian lifestyle but I'm a bit puzzled to why my weight stays the exact same despite me being in a much great shape compared to what I was before I started running again.
Is it possible the muscle gain balanced out the weight loss?

I can't remember what they call it, but it's like they say about postmen walking the same route every day and still have big fat bellies...the body gets used to and adapts to the routine.  Mix it up, try something else.

On a more basic level, you are not burning more calories than you are consuming.  Whenever you are curious about why you aren't losing weight, this is the irrefutable truth.

Sounds logical. Yet I wasn't putting on more weight when I was doing what I am doing now minus the running. That's what's puzzling me.

I've actually noticed my weight stabelizing around 184-5.  I'm still in much better shape than I was but I'm not quite fit yet....though going from size 42 pants to size 36 is pretty awesome.

As to the police thing, well I answered honestly for all the questions but maybe not diplomatically. Either way I'm ok with it because what I said was exactly how I would act in the situations presented and I'm not going to be ashamed of that.

I may actually look into the air national guard, sounds interesting.  I might still pursue law enforcement but I had also been looking into nursing as well.  My problem right now is with a GED and 40hr job that just pays the bills getting funding or even free time for college is going to be hard.

Your body will always try to defend itself when "threatened".  It is likely adapting your metabolic rate to make up for it the extra calories you are burning.  You might find that if you stop running, you'll start putting on weight.

They always need cops in the AF/ANG (Security Forces). You could work at the base during the week, get paid pretty good for it too even while being a 'Reservist'. Once you've gone through the training and OJT and a couple deployments, you'd have a good chance at getting into local police/sherrifs offices - of course getting a degree while a reservist is going to help out even more (sometimes required, right?), but the experience will be gold compared to other applicants.

They also need nurses. Both those are needed and may pay a $20k bonus for signing up. And they pay for your training/OJT!

Going to school while working 40hrs is really really hard - I recommend getting into the ANG/Reserves/whatever to pay for school and then get a loan for living expenses. You aren't going to go any further than you have without doing something drastic (or it'll take 8 years). Tough decision to make, I know.

BMI is a poor indicator of health.  Use it as a rough estimate, but understand it cannot measure fat percentage.

It is likely you are putting on muscle.  Muscle weighs more than fat and because of that a lot of people who are starting an exercise regimen assume they aren't losing weight.  They're technically right, but they are losing weight due to fat, which is what they want.  Increased muscle mass requires burning more calories so it helps with that goal.

It's also healthier than just starving yourself and losing weight, although a lot of people think that's what is supposed to happen.

You are eating more or moving less to compensate.  I went through a 6 month period where I rode my bicycle for almost everything and my weight didn't change at all.

If you want to lose weight, you need to adjust your diet.  Here is an aphorism that will serve you well -

You can't outrun your fork.

Yep, it's boring but true.  If you calculate out your calories, you'll soon make sense of it all.  Walking burns very very few calories & people are ridiculously efficient.

For me, for example, my basal burn rate is 1960 calories, and my typical daily activity brings that up to about 2500.  If I go over 2500 I gain weight, if I go under about 2000 or so I lose it (you have to drop under a certain amount to tell your body to get busy losin' but not SO low as to freak it out into starvation mode -- but starvation mode is reallly low, like 1300 or something for me).

Basal is figured out with charts & graphs on the web that take your age and weight and spit it out, and figuring out my 'break-even' amount of 2500 is from trial & error by keeping logs for almost a year now.   I can increase the amount burned by 200 to 400 with some (admittedly pretty lame) exercise but honestly, it's easier to just cut down on the food for me.  Part of that is that I get the advantages of being tall & male - my wife's basal, for example, is way down at like 1400 or so, which is a lot of difference to make up, and so she opts for much more exercise, since eating 1500 calories a day really sucks.

This guy's website-slash-book is what got me started on the charts n' graphs, it's really kinda interesting if you like playing with numbers and can keep good records about what you eat:  http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/hackdiet.html

(ack, wrong button)

Counties beg ex military guys to go into law enforcement.  When I got out I was inundated with information on it.

Are you sure? I did a little test with 3 different recently used forks and none of them beat me in a short sprint to the kitchen sink.

But seriously, I noticed my pants starting sagging so I jumped on the scales only to be somewhat baffled to see I still weigh the same 75kg. It doesn't matter of course, I feel great, I'm in the best shape since I've started an office job and I'm really happy seeing myself getting into better shape and I really enjoy the exercise.

It took about two months running before my knees stopped hurting but now that they've catched up to my new activities a run after work has become a most relaxing thing to do.

Oh that's pretty clearly muscle gain then if you're getting smaller and weigh the same.  Good work!

Muscle is more dense than fat.  A pound of fat and a pound of muscle both still weigh a pound at the end of the day.  You will notice your body profile appearing trimmer as you replace fat with muscle for a given weight.  If you just stop eating your body will cannibalize muscle to store more fat - so starvation diets often take your body profile the wrong direction.  You must eat in order to lose weight, eating right is what keeps you from eating too much (and gaining unwanted weight).

Most people naturally treat themselves after working out (or in the same day/week).  They automatically compensate for burning more calories by taking in more food.  Of course it is far easier to over compensate than it is to net even or maintain overall discipline (and then lose weight).  If you don't keep a food log religiously you'll have little chance of catching it.

Most people eat too much protein.  Your body can only use up to 1.5 grams per kg of lean mass.
Most people eat too few meals.  Large spikes in available fuel lead to most of it going into storage.
Many people don't get enough sleep, or carry other stresses that promote weight retention.
Many people drink alcohol while trying to adjust their body weight.  Alcohol is a weight loss killer, and makes maintaining hydration difficult.

I'm 5'11"  In 96 I weighed 140 and had 8% body fat.  By 2000 I weighed in at 195 with 10% body fat, having completed my transition from a collegiate cyclist to a men's rugby player.  Now, on the far side of competition with a desk job I'm facing the problem of shedding pounds.  I hit 237 earlier this year, at about the start of this thread, and am back down to 218.  I haven't improved my current bad eating habits nor changed my irregular sleep, I've just reduced some stresses and maintained/reduced total intake despite returning to the field twice a week and a couple weeks of crazy physical activity (while effective, moving 7 tons of stone by hand in 90 degree heat is not recommended).  I'll probably hit my target of 195 early next year, my continual fear is more forced inactivity.  I got to 237 through not changing my intake through injury (or work) enforced inactivity, every broken bone and death march has left its mark.  That's the last thing, your desire to eat will lag a couple weeks behind your actual burnrate, so you'll just start adding weight if you stop working out. 

I still weigh myself every morning, though I no longer record the values for weight and BMI.  Just tracking weight and food intake will help maintain discipline (so long as you care).  For help on tracking your food intake it is a lot easier now than even 10 years ago.  Sites like http://www.calorieking.com/foods/ make discovering the fat-carb-protein breakdown (9-4-4 calories per gram) much easier. 

Having been on the Cytomax and MCT+Bagel train I have no desire to go back, but sensible eating into my target weight is something I should get back to. 




For added thread relevance, my Fiancee is a police detective.  The oral was probably a couple of things, and often the most important thing was if they liked you on a personal level.  Police work is union work, it is all about time served seniority and being part of the team - because it is very difficult to get rid of an officer once they are in (union again).  If you brought up online gaming for teamwork and you aren't a raid leader/guild officer you did shoot yourself in the foot.  You may have also inadvertantly flagged yourself as a potential computer crimes officer, police training in this field is pretty desirable in the corporate world and those officers have a reputation of taking the training and leaving the force.  At the end of the day, if you weren't comfortable with the guys grilling you, you are better off putting into another department.  Finding coworkers you can tolerate is a big part of the process, especially since: switching departments means starting over from 0 seniority (so people don't do it); the union will protect your job (so they can't get rid of you anyway); and with unemployment where it is, police departments have many more applicants than they normally do. 

Also, sprinting the end of your timed portion provided a few pieces of information:  Your time was an accomplishment to you that you didn't necessarily know you could manage before hand, you were sandbagging the early laps and not leaving it all on the track, you did more than strictly necessary but weren't at the exceptional end of the spectrum, you let the other guy lead you out and set pace (do all the work) then you dropped him when you saw your own chance to shine (grabbing the glory).  Chances are, they didn't really care: beating the mark is beating the mark.  Police work attracts a specific personality type far more than any other, are you that type?  Would you fit in at work?  Or are you using this as a life changing decision point?  For the most part if you can create a life worth leaving in your current position you can do the same in any position.  Since the police can be selective now, they'll be looking for someone who already is the person they want rather than the person who thinks they might like to become that person.  If you are the right type and are sure this is your path, just put in with another department.  They really are fraternal orders and each will have its own personality; finding the right one becomes the most important thing you can do right now since changing in the future is costly.

Christ, some of you have some pretty massive weight shifts.  I think I was born with a high metabolism.  After going through my growth and into college, I was about 185 and 6'1'ish (maybe 6'2'ish), and have stayed at around that for a long time now, no matter what I did.  I ate nothing but pizza and burritos, and drank nothing but Pepsi.  I would go some years with doing physical activity, some years sitting on my ass doing nothing.  Didn't change anything.

As I get older, the old magic defiantly isn't working as well anymore, with my weight all the way up to 202 and noticeable fat forming on my stomach.  Which is prompting me to jump back into a food/exercise routine.  But Jesus Christ, I can't imagine the 50/60 pound shifts some of you guys are talking about.

I was meaning by volume, thus being more dense.  It's poor form to assume people would know that though.

A recent study which I believe Time magazine published, and that I emailed to my wife, stated that exercise sucks for weight loss....without pretty much using a nutrition counselor in conjunction with it. You simply eat more and take in more calories in response to exercising.

Their example in the article....you run 3 miles and burn 300 calories. You drink a 32 ounce Gatorade and eat a nutritional bar. Congrats you just replaced all 300 calories and something like 100 extra on top of that. Or awesome when you get home you can have a whopping 2 extra tablespoons of butter on your baked potato.

Basically the increased appetite that comes from physical exertion defeats our attempts to loose weight by burning the calories with out strong oversight and guidance on our nutrition as well.

It's really your last sentence that nails it.  It isn't that exercising won't work, it's more that people either don't know what they are doing and/or lack self control.

People also need to be talking more about how simply adding muscle to your frame will increase your metabolism significantly, making "watching your weight" a whole hell of a lot easier.

Or, as it was succinctly put to me, "Diet trumps exercise for weight loss."

If you go cycling, get a mountain bike and plow through the forrests. Way more rolling resistance than on the road and more fun. Lost like 15kg in two months that way (i.e. picking up mountain biking again after years). I plateau'd meanwhile. Not losing weight anymore, but slimming down in waist size and so on (I guess muscle build up).

The Time article, as you can imagine, wasn't all that deep on the subject.  For a better look at it, check out "Good Calories, Bad Calories", by Gary Taubes.  It's a great book with a terrible name, because it isn't a diet book.

Speaking of calories I found this somewhat interesting: The Calorie Delusion: Why Food Labels Are Incorrect (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20327171.200-the-calorie-delusion-why-food-labels-are-wrong.html?full=true).

Not sure about the science but on the common sense level it sounded good to me.

It's about the long term. I've been cycling a hilly 14km to work and back every weekday for the last two months, with the occasional 100km weekend ride. Earlier in the year, I did this for four months. In between, I had two months of illness and lack of sleep due to overwork, where I lost all my condition and gained weight.

For the first month and a half of cycling each time, I ate massive amounts. I needed it. It helped me build up the necessary muscle and cardiovascular condition. I didn't lose weight, but I dramatically changed shape for the better. After these initial six weeks, my appetite fell as it became routine to do the cycling. Both times as my appetite dropped, my weight began dropping and I began to look leaner.

My previous experience of this is 15 months of cycle touring, where I quit my job and lived in a tent most of the time, cycling 80-100km per day. I returned from that as a strong, thin person. This is my attempt to get back to that condition while retaining a job. As long as I keep this up and don't get sick this time, I'll let you know how it goes.

I cannot speak to all the science in the article, but at least some of it is correct, such as cooking foods denaturing proteins and making them more easily digestible.

I'm in the 'not worth the bother' camp on working out particular deviations from 9-4-4.  Fibre/Protein looks to be the furthest off, but folks shouldn't be eating protein or fibre for fuel anyway (and as they point out, these are the most sensitive to preparation).  So you don't really lose anything, unless you are trying to make a spot decision based on what you read on a label instead of eating the foods you planned for the day/week.  If you are making the spot decision you've already lost, so why help people when they are doing it wrong? 

I'd love more accurate labels but I'm not going to sweat it.  Protein consumption is limited to grams per lean kg so if you are on a 2500 cal daily diet we're talking the difference between 300 and 375 calories for a person with 140lbs of lean mass.  Since this would be an overestimate of the calories you've taken in you should lose 4kg a year just hitting the 2500/day mark exactly.  Really, the particularities are already baked into the system because the guidlines just aren't accurate enough to warrent the additional precision in component measurement.

Anyway, excessive preparation removes non-calorie nutritional value and misses an opportunity to increase your basal energy requirements by eating hard to digest foods (though excessive proteins can be hard on the kidneys).

I think it lays a fine ground work for my new "don't chew your food" diet!

Interesting article.  They do bring up some points that really highlight just how out of date our thinking about caloric content really is. 

The food lobby wants to keep the customer ignorant as much as possible.  Doing things like counting < 0.5g as 0g and using old bomb calorimetry data is just the tip of the iceberg. 

Must resist turning this into a biochemistry discussion.  I love metabolic biochemistry.  It fascinates me. 

Yeah it said that was a myth as well. Well it was true but not enough to matter. That you might earn an additional 10 lbs of muscle which would lead to burning a whopping extra 20 calories a day or something insignificantly small.

Diet was the key.

I would think the results would be relative to your condition when you added the 10lbs of muscle.  A fitness junky bulking up another 10 lbs of muscle would not see the same shift in the metabolism as someone who sat on his ass for the last decade and just started to get into shape.

As someone who sat on his ass for half a decade, gaining even some muscle lead to me doing lots of activity I would've passed up otherwise.

Like getting up to change the channel on the TV.  Or getting out of bed in the morning when I first wake up.

Think of it this way.  3500 calories is a VERY rough equivalent to 1 lb.  To lose 1lb a week you either eat a lot less, exercise a lot more, or do both in moderation.  The later is the easiest. 

Muscle being more dense than fat throws this out the window, but only at low body fat %.  Also, for every pound you lose only about 70% of that is fat and the other 30% of that is muscle.  Most weightlifters will use this in combination with more muscle = higher metabolism to do bulk gaining followed by hard cutting. 

I'm sure this is just a repeat of something I've said on some other thread within the last 4 years.   Just trying to help.

It's worthwhile.  This idea that dieting alone is the solve for all your weight problems is pretty near-sighted.  I'll say the same thing I say in every thread of this sort:  people need to be better at setting specific goals, and then spend time learning the best way to achieve them.  Losing weight and achieving your ideal body image aren't necessarily the same thing, and quite often require a different path to get there.

I don't think anyone espoused that point of view and it certainly wasn't what in what you quoted from Nebu.

For math geek speak, the point that people are trying to make is that the forcing function for weight loss is caloric intake.  Caloric intake trumps anything else you do so you MUST get a handle on that first.

Burning 1000 Calories a day above and beyond your normal metabolic rate is great and has benefits all it's own but you're not going to lose an ounce if you're consuming 3500.  Which, as was pointed out, is often what happens when someone commits to a new, strenuous exercise routine.

The piece of knowledge most people require in order to be successful at weight loss is their base metabolic rate.  You can approximate this by height, weight, and age using any of a number of online calculators.  For diet alone, a 500 calorie per day reduction will help you permanently lose 1lb per week. 

Exercise gives you a double boost.  First it burns some of that 500 calories, allowing you to eat a bit more.  Second, it will add muscle mass making your daily caloric requirement higher.  If I'm working out every day, I can eat 5 small meals and one "normal" healthy dinner and not gain an ounce.  At my age, that's a wonderful thing. 

Exactly this.  Despite any confusing words I may have used, I only meant to say that say that any claims of "it's all about dieting" are misleading at best.  And no, it isn't all about caloric intake.  It's about whether you are in caloric excess or caloric deficit, and exercise and muscle mass have a HUGE impact on that.  And I don't know what the article says exactly, but 10 pounds of muscle mass needs 10 extra calories?  I don't buy it.

I think that figure is for BMR.  Organs, especially the brain, account for the majority of BMR.  Moving around, those muscles are going to start accounting for more calories consumed.

BTW, as of today I'm down 25 pounds in 9 weeks.  I put on some muscle too since the scale barely budged for a few weeks, but my clothes were getting more loose during that period. 

Low carb + Enter The Kettlebell (http://www.dragondoor.com/b33.html) FTW.  Nice and easy, no calorie counting or BMR calculation or any of that.

:awesome_for_real:

That's the most basic advice to give - EAT REAL FOOD!  I didn't mention that everything I eat is prepared by me, from scratch - mostly meat, veggies, and eggs.  Even the dressing for salads is made from scratch. 

Well, I do have a cheat on Friday or Saturday night, and that's usually going out for dinner somewhere.