Title: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Triforcer on December 11, 2008, 08:18:54 PM http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28184210/
:awesome_for_real: Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Mandrel on December 11, 2008, 09:47:46 PM Why does the U.S. hate the U.S.?
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 11, 2008, 09:50:06 PM The poor have spoken! The meek shall inherit the earth! Or at least a console that's a generation behind!
Edit: In all seriousness, despite the fact most of those consumers probably paid with credit cards they can't pay off, it's nice that they still want to buy things for their kids on christmas. Seriously. It shows priorities are still in order, sort of. That said, if they were adults buying them for themselves, well, I hope they have total financial failure, lose their house, and burn in a lake of fire, stupidity, and bad taste. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: mutantmagnet on December 12, 2008, 08:12:45 AM You don't think the Wii counts as cheap entertainment?
People aren't going to simply stop finding ways to get their jollies off. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 12, 2008, 12:09:46 PM You don't think the Wii counts as cheap entertainment? People aren't going to simply stop finding ways to get their jollies off. Cheap, like a state fair, sure. Entertaining? Yea, like a state fair, sure. :oh_i_see: Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Jain Zar on December 12, 2008, 01:03:20 PM When will you just accept that Sony lost, and that their way was the wrong way dude?
Then again you apparently think like most development houses which is why the Wii has such a shit game selection. ITS NOT CUTTING EDGE AND THUS THE GAMES CANNOT BE FUN. Shit, some of my favorite games in the last 5 years are on the underpowered portables. Its one of the few places I can go to get the kinds of games I want to play being a Mac user with OSX10.4 and all. (The other place involves niche ass PC games usually made in former Soviet Bloc countries and usually infested with Starforce, bad translations, and bugs.) Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Tale on December 12, 2008, 01:18:49 PM The Wii is the new plasma TV. The must-have item for the masses.
Massive screen with great picture quality = want. Videogame entertainment without learning a fiddly interface = want. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: HaemishM on December 12, 2008, 01:32:36 PM Sony lost, only they didn't lose to the Wii - because the Wii isn't going after the same market. You can say that it is, but you'd be wrong. The market Sony went after picked the XBox 360, which is donkeypunching the PS3 over and over again. The Wii went after a different market - the market that didn't exist. Can you seriously look at the majority of the Wii's catalog and think it's going to appeal to the same people who like the majority of the 360 and PS3 catalogs? If they were going after that market, they FAILED MISERABLY. The fact that they have made asstons of profit on the Wii just shows there was a market that previous consoles could never touch.
Christmas 2009 is going to be the breaking point. If the Wii isn't the top seller next Christmas season, we'll know it was a fad. Of course, had the developers and Nintendo itself concentrated on more quality titles as opposed to the casual game shovelware they've put out, I believe there would have been no chance it would have been a fad. But it might still be a fad based on the fact that this is the first Christmas where we should see demand fairly even with supply. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Velorath on December 12, 2008, 01:49:26 PM Then again you apparently think like most development houses which is why the Wii has such a shit game selection. If most development houses had shifted to Wii development, most of them would be out of business right now. You think Infinity Ward or Bioware know how to make good family games? Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: naum on December 12, 2008, 03:00:32 PM I think Nintendo has been rather Apple-esque (in 1980s parlance) in not exercising and exploiting its market margin.
Games for the platform have barely trickled out, and quality is hit and miss, and besides the initial wow factor of the accelerometer in early games, the feature has not really been tapped in much more creative fashion. The fact that it took years before a light saber game came out is bad enough, but even the simple act of using controller as pointer + mouse seems to have been lost on developers. Not to mention the half heart and/or near nonexistent attempt to capitalize on online realm. Even the web browser is a joke, as the biggest reason I used it was for playing flash videos is just about useless as the browser has never been updated to play Flash 9 video. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Azazel on December 12, 2008, 03:57:20 PM The Wii software market just isn't as discerning as people like us are though. Little kids and families. People like our parents, who would have to range from 40-80+). People who have never looked at or considered buying a videogame.
They buy far, far fewer titles than we do. A lot of the shovelware is cheap and so gets bought for little kids, who, let's face it, will enjoy almost anything. Why do you think badly-designed and programmed licenced shit has sold well since forever? Jain Zar and Schild are both missing the point of the Wii. Haemish gets it. The 360 and PS3 are both apples, but the Wii is an orange. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: TheWalrus on December 12, 2008, 08:36:32 PM The Wii software market just isn't as discerning as people like us are though. Little kids and families. People like our parents, who would have to range from 40-80+). People who have never looked at or considered buying a videogame. They buy far, far fewer titles than we do. A lot of the shovelware is cheap and so gets bought for little kids, who, let's face it, will enjoy almost anything. Why do you think badly-designed and programmed licenced shit has sold well since forever? Jain Zar and Schild are both missing the point of the Wii. Haemish gets it. The 360 and PS3 are both apples, but the Wii is an orange. I think this is right. (As a wii owner) I buy games that my wife and our friends can play when we get together. I buy games that my daughter can play and enjoy. My father and mother in law love Mariokart. I just don't think that you can have the same kind of fun with a system that only has two player (if you don't go online) and doesn't have the movement aspect of the wii. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 12, 2008, 08:59:23 PM Quote Jain Zar and Schild are both missing the point of the Wii. Haemish gets it. The 360 and PS3 are both apples, but the Wii is an orange. Yes, truly a new point. I've never said the Wii was competing with board games rather than the 360 or the PS3 before. Still doesn't negate the fact Nintendo is a bunch of evil assholes pushing trash onto the shelves of gaming stores. It doesn't matter if it's an orange or a basket of bananas, the point still stands that due to it's position in the market, it's mere existance is not only holding back development of decent shit, but it's changed the way the gaming market is perceived (for the worse) imo. Hopefully Nintendo screws up again the next go round so we can recover from what has thus far been a mostly stagnant and lackluster generation. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Azazel on December 12, 2008, 09:16:36 PM I'll concede you the boardgames point, but blaming the Wii for the stagnancy and lackluster aspects of this generation's games is ridiculous. Regardless of whether you have a PS3/360, we're still just playing shinier PS2 games with a slap of former-PC games, such as all the FPS stuff. Often the exact same titles and franchises they were pumping out for the PS2 as well.
The Wii hasn't got anything to do with that. The stuff it gets is mostly shovelware and shovelware ports of PS360 games with waggle tacked-on, badly. Hey, NMH came out on Wii instead of a gamers' console, and there are a few other anomalies like that, but they're just that. Anomalies. Remember the recent Blactivision announcment dumping anything that couldn't be exploited in a yearly franchise? Those annoual franchises aren't Wii titles... Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Velorath on December 12, 2008, 09:21:57 PM Hopefully Nintendo screws up again the next go round so we can recover from what has thus far been a mostly stagnant and lackluster generation. All three console makers have a near equal hand in the problems the market is facing right now. You can't really fault Nintendo just because they're the only ones who were actually able to find a way to profit this gen. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Fabricated on December 12, 2008, 10:12:25 PM On the upside I turned my Wii on for the first time in I think...3 months to play some Smash Brothers with a good friend of mine.
The Wii's utterly worthless library isn't really a problem since the majority of those 2 million Wii's aren't going to be playing anything but WiiSports and WiiPlay. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: apocrypha on December 12, 2008, 10:48:01 PM Still doesn't negate the fact Nintendo is a bunch of evil assholes pushing trash onto the shelves of gaming stores. They're businessmen. They're in the market to make money, not to further the cause of gaming. Aiming for the cheaper end of a crowded market is a business strategy that's worked well forever, especially in times of hardship. Whether or not that makes them evil assholes is a question for a politics thread really :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Engels on December 12, 2008, 11:02:20 PM Blaming the state of 'good' games on the wii is like blaming the state of Wimbledon on ping pong.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 12, 2008, 11:56:34 PM Blaming the state of 'good' games on the wii is like blaming the state of Wimbledon on ping pong. I wish it were that easy. But that right there, that's a crock of bullshit. Still doesn't negate the fact Nintendo is a bunch of evil assholes pushing trash onto the shelves of gaming stores. They're businessmen. They're in the market to make money, not to further the cause of gaming. Aiming for the cheaper end of a crowded market is a business strategy that's worked well forever, especially in times of hardship. Whether or not that makes them evil assholes is a question for a politics thread really :awesome_for_real:Oh, there's no doubt. Nintendo got lucky with the world going down the total shitter. There's no way they planned on that particular bit. I'm not saying the PS3 or 360 would've beaten the Wii this november if the world's economy weren't in the toilet, but it no doubt helped lengthen the spread and pad Nintendo's numbers. For years gaming has been one of the worlds indulgences during the holiday season and this time Christmas was going to the cheapest one no matter what it was. It doesn't make them evil, just makes them lucky. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Velorath on December 13, 2008, 12:18:11 AM The 360 arcade is $50 cheaper than the Wii. This is about more than just who was the cheapest this holiday season.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Jain Zar on December 13, 2008, 02:11:55 AM Its not Nintendo's fault the developers put shit on the system. Nintendo has never cared. They let JLN and Acclaim release some of the biggest hunks of shit the NES had the misfortune to ever host. (Xmen for the NES is still the worst commercial videogame I have ever played.)
And they did the NES stuff back when they actually limited releases and were pushy about allowing stuff on the thing. But they learned, Sony forgot (Remember all the 2D games Sony cockblocked on the PS1?) and I guess Nintendo is happy as long as they get their license fees even if its muddying their system with ass. But it never hurt the SNES, Gameboy family, or DS so why would they stop it now even if oh sweet Cthulhu they need to? They release the odd game that sells gangbusters and fuck if anything else is worth a shit. And these days Nintendo Power isn't required reading so the few clever games get lost in the shuffle if its not published by the Big N. The PS2 is still getting some great games on it, and outside of graphics fidelity I doubt most of the new games are any worse than the ones you pay 10 bucks more for on the 360 and PS3. Is Lego Batman really that much more superior on the 360? Is Madden? If that old beast can still do compelling games why not a system that is 4 times as powerful as its elder parent which was better than the PS2 in the last console cycle? I mean, have we seen the Rogue Squadron games or Resident Evil 4? The Gamecube was host to some really good looking games when the developers gave a fuck. There are plenty of people who own a Wii looking for more traditional games, or even some new gamers who now want to play all the cool stuff they missed. Where are the turn based wargames for the guy who watches History Channel? Howabout some good murder mystery adventure games for the CSI fan? More retrofeeling games for the NES owner who skipped everything since due to college and getting drunk/laid? RPGs for the kids who loved Final Fantasy 1 but never got deeper? Tetris and its kin for everyone? These sorts of games can be found on almost every other Nintendo system in spite of shitty kid license X infesting it. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Tmon on December 13, 2008, 08:14:12 AM I agree with Haemish the WII is for the most part building its own market not taking from an existing one. I'm giving my wife a WII for Christmas, it's the first video game system she's shown interest in since I've known her. Since the games I play most are either exclusive to PCs or available on both console and PC, I've never had the urge to buy a console for myself so in my family's case WII isn't stealing a customer from another console they are adding a customer to a market that the other consoles didn't have a shot at.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: NiX on December 13, 2008, 11:09:14 AM The 360 arcade is $50 cheaper than the Wii. This is about more than just who was the cheapest this holiday season. Don't be silly! Nintendo is just pure evil for sapping away customers from our beloved Microsoft and Sony! They're also single handedly ruining game franchises by making companies develop on the Wii.Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: mutantmagnet on December 13, 2008, 11:15:03 AM Nintendo can be blamed for a lot of things but the current state of gaming is not it.
I brought the Wii recently with the hope to get a good number of games that make good use of the motion tech so I can get a gameplay experience traditional consoles don't support. I have a decent list of games to choose from that will hold me out for a year easily but it amazes me how limited my options are turning out to be. The selections of FPS are terrible and that is the one genre I expected devs to actually deliver on because what's hard about making a good FPS? Apparently they can't make one without high fidelity graphics. :uhrr: What's really pathetic is noone has even attempted an RTS. Consoles always were a bad platform, but for once you had a machine that doesn't have the same limitations and developers don't even try experimenting with that? This console won't get anything resembling an RTS until Pikmin 3. This alone shows how much devs are underperforming for the Wii but there's one thing that pisses me off more than that, shovelware. It's bad enough that the developers don't serve my needs correctly but my sensibilities are further offended at the quality of games they make for other consumers. For the first year they primarily made minigames as if that's the only thing consumers wanted. DUring the past two yearsr cartoony art directions with equally infantile storytelling has been all the rage because kids and sometimes women play the console. The age group of Wii users is skewed towards the 30s and not the preteens. It's absurd they aren't making games that appeal to more adult sensibilities. They don't have to be tetosterone injectors like the games they make for PS3 or 360. If developers were actually good at making videogames they could compete with Nintendo on their console on a consistent basis. Many developers lacking imagination, guts and skill is what makes the current generation look crappy now. Nintendo can be blamed for future problems if MS and Sony magically decide to not push their technology forward (I expect one of them not to do this). Other than that not much else. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 13, 2008, 11:57:37 AM Quote from: Jain Zar Where are the turn based wargames for the guy who watches History Channel? Howabout some good murder mystery adventure games for the CSI fan? More retrofeeling games for the NES owner who skipped everything since due to college and getting drunk/laid? RPGs for the kids who loved Final Fantasy 1 but never got deeper? Tetris and its kin for everyone? 1. Only, only you would put that at the top of the list. Turn based war games do not sell well, ever. Not on consoles. 2. That stuff is selling decently on the DS. I think Strongbad did well on the Wii. 3. Mega Man 9? 4. Dragon Quest X is coming out. RPGs are pretty light all around this generation. 5. Boom Blox. Should be pushing 2M copies now. The closest thing to Tetris in the last 3 generations of consoles is Lumines though and it got nowhere near dethroning tetris - and won't. Nothing will. Except maybe, tetris? Maybe. Not likely. Quote from: mutantmagnet If developers were actually good at making videogames they could compete with Nintendo on their console on a consistent basis. It has been proving time and time again, that since the SNES, it doesn't matter how good third party games are on the current Nintendo console, that the only stuff that ever sells anywhere near that much on (again, a Ninty console), is Capcom and Square stuff, and even then, it's hit and miss. Stuff might do well in Japan, but not the US and vice versa. I think Carnival Games did very well on the Wii - which speaks a lot towards their demographic. Really, it says just about everything.Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: mutantmagnet on December 13, 2008, 01:31:11 PM Carnival games speaks volumes that you can find people with less sophisticated tastes but I still think developers are pandering the wrong loving way.
For example, let's just assume the Wii was a console for only women and children. Why is every Sim Life, cooking game pandering to children's tastes? I think women only tolerate this kiddy tripe, because they have no other options. Let's go one step further. Women in general love soap operas. Where's a AAA version of something as basic as a female lead caught in a love triangle? Stay at home women I bet don't stay at home much if they can do so. Where's the pick up and play game that integrates the DS so they can do certain tasks while sitting on bus or waiting on an appointment and when they get back home they could see the fruits of their labor on a bigger screen with additonal features the DS can't support. This is just women. There are ways to cater to the sensibilities of the elderly and middle aged men (though I think this demographic doesn't look for the Wii for something fun as much as other consoles) that involves more than the banality of Carnival Games and WiiMusic. I wouldn't be this annoyed if developers were simply happy throwing out shovelware because they do get away with it in the Wii market. But they have the audacity to complain their other types of games don't sell well on the Wii. They already shot themselves in the foot by sending the Wii abysmal ports of the games they like to make so they'll just have to wait and see if developers like Capcom and High VOltage can do what they are afraid to do now. More importantly they need to repair their brain and remember part of the reason they got into the industry was to make games they liked that didn't pander down to them with infantile plotlines and aesthetic choices. If other adults are buying the Wii they should try making adult games like Gabriel Knight or highly intuitive interactive software like Wiifit and Wiisports which was the reason the Wii caze sustains its crazy sales record. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 13, 2008, 02:18:41 PM The Wii's crazy sales record is only set in hardware and by Wii Play - because it comes with a second controller. Afaik, the only runaway no-doubt hit is still Wii Sports and it's bundled in the box. The best selling games in Japan are still Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter. And the best selling games in America, as per the norm, are still shooters and sports titles, WoW, and the odd Nintendo first party franchise (as has been the norm for a while, with WoW being added just recently. The paradigm isn't shifting with the Wii because there's no point. Just like the Xbox was the Halo Box and the Gamecube was the Smash Brothers Cube, the Wii is the Wii Sports toy.
An install base of 200M means jack shit if the attach rate for anything that's not a ninty title is god awful. You're not seeing that AAA stuff because it's not worth the dev time. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Wasted on December 13, 2008, 08:08:02 PM I bought a Wii on launch day and haven't played it for probably close to a year. The kids use it a little but I don't buy any games for it anymore. If they had more games that I liked, I'd probably get more games for the kids too, I don't understand the narrow range. Its like they think us parents just forget about the system when the kids stop playing, imagine if when they released DVD players they where locked to G rated movies only.
But I'm getting a ps3 next week so what do I care anyways :grin: Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: UnSub on December 13, 2008, 10:10:09 PM If we can agree that the Wii isn't in the same space as the X360 / PS3, then that's the end of comparability. Unless you want to also argue that portables / handhelds should also be included in the discussion, and they sell a ton more than the consoles.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Velorath on December 13, 2008, 11:50:13 PM The Wii's crazy sales record is only set in hardware and by Wii Play - because it comes with a second controller. Afaik, the only runaway no-doubt hit is still Wii Sports and it's bundled in the box. Mario Kart has remained in the top 10 NPD's since it launched and is currently around 10 million sold world-wide. Wii Fit is closing in on 10 million as well. Smash Bros. and SMG I think have both sold around 6-7 million world-wide. The top selling 3rd party games are Big Brain academy and Guitar Hero 3 with a couple million in sales each, and Carnival Games which I think is just under 2 million. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 14, 2008, 12:04:23 AM Mario Kart hit 10M? Yow, didn't see that. As for Wii Fit, I said before it'll probably be the best selling thing ever in the history of the world, whether I liked it or not. Too bad the total weightloss around the world due to it is probably far below 10M. :oh_i_see:
Smash and SMG, those numbers are expected. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: HaemishM on December 14, 2008, 12:07:27 AM An install base of 200M means jack shit if the attach rate for anything that's not a ninty title is god awful. You're not seeing that AAA stuff because it's not worth the dev time. The attach rate on the Wii has been equal to or marginally higher than the PS3's. Try again. You're not seeing AAA stuff becuase the dev's think they are too "good" for making games on the system, or they just aren't smart enough to figure out how to use waggle for anything but gimmicks and remapping traditional controls. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Velorath on December 14, 2008, 12:10:19 AM Mario Kart hit 10M? Yow, didn't see that. Probably over that by a bit now. By the end of Sept. they had sold 950,000 according to their financial reports, so that wasn't even counting holiday sales. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Ratman_tf on December 14, 2008, 12:17:11 AM I haven't bought a console since Gamecube and PS2. There just aren't any interesting games that I "must have" on any of the next-gen consoles.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Big Gulp on December 14, 2008, 04:53:05 AM I haven't bought a console since Gamecube and PS2. There just aren't any interesting games that I "must have" on any of the next-gen consoles. I'm hardly a primarily console gamer; my 360 hasn't been turned on in at least a month, and that was for a Rock Band night, but this is nonsense. I can point to a dozen must own titles that are console only. If your tastes don't trend that way, that's fine, but it's a problem with you, and not with the platform. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: UnSub on December 14, 2008, 07:03:13 AM I just read an article that called the Wii "the most bought and least played" console of this generation. Seemed appropriate.
The big difference with the Wii is that anyone can play it - my wife hasn't touched a console since the Atari 2600 and my son is 4. Both can play Wii games. Hopefully someone at MS / Sony noticed this for the next generation of control systems. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Big Gulp on December 14, 2008, 07:45:20 AM The big difference with the Wii is that anyone can play it - my wife hasn't touched a console since the Atari 2600 and my son is 4. Both can play Wii games. Hopefully someone at MS / Sony noticed this for the next generation of control systems. Sorry to say it, but fuck those people. They aren't gamers and have no real desire to be. Just because a significant portion of the population is intimidated by a game pad or mouse/keyboard isn't my problem. Let 'em hang out in the Nintendo ghetto. I'm quite happy to be an elitist in this regard if it means my games aren't brought down to a level where a retarded chimp can play 'em. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Velorath on December 14, 2008, 08:24:07 AM The big difference with the Wii is that anyone can play it - my wife hasn't touched a console since the Atari 2600 and my son is 4. Both can play Wii games. Hopefully someone at MS / Sony noticed this for the next generation of control systems. Sorry to say it, but fuck those people. They aren't gamers and have no real desire to be. Just because a significant portion of the population is intimidated by a game pad or mouse/keyboard isn't my problem. Let 'em hang out in the Nintendo ghetto. I'm quite happy to be an elitist in this regard if it means my games aren't brought down to a level where a retarded chimp can play 'em. The 4 year old son might very well have a desire to be a gamer, and there are a lot of parents who grew up with games now who buy a Wii to get their kids into games. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: mutantmagnet on December 14, 2008, 08:45:12 AM So Biggulp, you're a fan of this turd?
(http://www.benwaysworld.co.uk/computersnconsoles/AtariJaguar.jpg) Simple controls doesn't equate to inferior games. Besides it's not as if the Wii remote is lacking in sophistication. The Xbox and PS3 controllers can't match what it does. What has always been important is whether or not games could be made with the Wiimote in mind, that couldn't be achieved on the other systems, without being frustrated by the controllers they use, which in turn reduces your ability to have fun with the game. You simply can't play Bloomblox on other controllers like you could on the Wii. From observation Trauma Center probably wouldn't have been possible and a reviewer from IGN claims neither would've Elebits. That concludes the amount of games I can think of that requires motions. As for games that lose out significantly with a gamepad over a remote: After playing some FPS on the Xbox I find Metroid to be a completely better experience. From observation games like Zack and Wiki, SSX Blur and Madden 07 wouldn't have gotten as much praise without the motion tech. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 14, 2008, 08:59:39 AM Any game at all could be mapped to a controller, don't even try to fly around here with that bullshit.
Also, the Jaguar was your console of choice (for this argument)? Apparently you never played one, but the numpad was basically used for utility in most cases and in some of the cases (some FPS titles and such where you used it for weapons), it worked fairly well. Zack and Wiki would've gotten just as much praise as a downloadable for the XBL or PSN. Saying otherwise is as stupid as saying Braid would've gotten more praise for being on the Wii. Please, form better arguments. Just because we're biased against the Wii doesn't mean we're stupid. It mostly just means the Wii is a piece of trash. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 14, 2008, 09:03:25 AM The big difference with the Wii is that anyone can play it - my wife hasn't touched a console since the Atari 2600 and my son is 4. Both can play Wii games. Hopefully someone at MS / Sony noticed this for the next generation of control systems. Sorry to say it, but fuck those people. They aren't gamers and have no real desire to be. Just because a significant portion of the population is intimidated by a game pad or mouse/keyboard isn't my problem. Let 'em hang out in the Nintendo ghetto. I'm quite happy to be an elitist in this regard if it means my games aren't brought down to a level where a retarded chimp can play 'em. Edit: Woo, that was a load of elitism. Tl; dr - I don't like my games to be EASY. I don't mind some games being easy, but more often than not, I find games laughable these days. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Trippy on December 14, 2008, 09:10:11 AM So what you are saying is that in a future generation when our ability to fend off an alien invasion is dependent on the reflexes of our children we're going to be fucked? :awesome_for_real:
Edit: to be or not to be Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 14, 2008, 09:14:57 AM So what you are saying is that in a future generation when our ability to fend off an alien invasion is dependent on the reflexes of our children we're going to fucked? :awesome_for_real: Nah, once we implement the Ender's Game program we're going to be taking the best and brightest and put them through a rigorous test of nigh unbeatable Nintendo games like Battletoads and such. We'll be fine, barely. Once that generations childrens have to save us, we are screeeeeeewwwwwwwweeeeeeeeedddddd.Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: mutantmagnet on December 14, 2008, 10:34:27 AM Any game at all could be mapped to a controller, don't even try to fly around here with that bullshit. Sure any game could be mapped to a controller but does that make them good games? No and this just goes back to my point abut RTS and FPS. The wii remote offers a level of control gamepads don't. Pro Evo 08 is proving that point. Quote Zack and Wiki would've gotten just as much praise as a downloadable for the XBL or PSN. Well I have yet to play Zack and Wiki hence I could only talk about it from an observational viewpoint. And from what I've observed people praised the controls just as much as the puzzles hence my feelings on that it may not be as much fun without them and that's the point.Even if Z+W could be played on a controller does it actually make it an equally enjoyable experience? I doubt Z+W would've been more than just a point and click style Adventure game with other controllers. Quote The Wii will not prepare children for complex games and as a result, future games will be simplified to meet the audience of useless, stupid teenagers. That's the fault of the developer, not the medium. You can't get any more basic than the joystick with orange button from the Commodore64 games or the nes pad. I used both in the same time period and each had tough as well as easy mode games. I personally just wish all developers offered a hard and easy setting. I was getting bored with Zelda until I got to the frozen region were enemies actually offered something resembling a challenge. They still couldn't kill me but atleast I was running around with low health now and again. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 14, 2008, 11:42:41 AM Any game at all could be mapped to a controller, don't even try to fly around here with that bullshit. Sure any game could be mapped to a controller but does that make them good games? Any game could be mapped to the wiimote. Does that make them good? I already said stop it with the stupid arguments, but between this and Darkfall, you're starting to look more insane than originally thought. Quote No and this just goes back to my point abut RTS and FPS. The wii remote offers a level of control gamepads don't. Pro Evo 08 is proving that point. Unfortunately, you're wrong. While the Wiimote is theoretically better for shooters than the control pads, it's still going to look like a dog and run like ass and you might as well be playing it on a computer because it's still not better than a keyboard and mouse. Now, is it better for lightgun shooters/rail shooters? Not even then. The Guncon is still a far better and more accurate peripheral. Quote Quote Zack and Wiki would've gotten just as much praise as a downloadable for the XBL or PSN. Well I have yet to play Zack and Wiki hence I could only talk about it from an observational viewpoint.THEN DON'T TALK ABOUT IT. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Ratman_tf on December 14, 2008, 12:23:53 PM Edit: Woo, that was a load of elitism. Tl; dr - I don't like my games to be EASY. I don't mind some games being easy, but more often than not, I find games laughable these days. You'd make a damn fine poopsock raider, Schild. It's a shame you're not bitching on the WoW boards about how dumbed down Wrath raiding is. :popcorn: Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 14, 2008, 12:43:11 PM Edit: Woo, that was a load of elitism. Tl; dr - I don't like my games to be EASY. I don't mind some games being easy, but more often than not, I find games laughable these days. You'd make a damn fine poopsock raider, Schild. It's a shame you're not bitching on the WoW boards about how dumbed down Wrath raiding is. :popcorn:You <-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> The point. The sheer fact so many people can be successful in WoW is a fairly good argument to the fact that it's one of the easiest games ever made. Ever. EVER. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Ratman_tf on December 14, 2008, 02:27:36 PM Edit: Woo, that was a load of elitism. Tl; dr - I don't like my games to be EASY. I don't mind some games being easy, but more often than not, I find games laughable these days. You'd make a damn fine poopsock raider, Schild. It's a shame you're not bitching on the WoW boards about how dumbed down Wrath raiding is. :popcorn:You <-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> The point. The sheer fact so many people can be successful in WoW is a fairly good argument to the fact that it's one of the easiest games ever made. Ever. EVER. Ever? Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 14, 2008, 02:31:03 PM Indeed.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: mutantmagnet on December 14, 2008, 03:59:33 PM Sure any game could be mapped to a controller but does that make them good games? Any game could be mapped to the wiimote. Does that make them good?[/quote] You intentionally parsed this statement from the follow up I made about RTS and FPS. Your criticism is invalid here. Quote Unfortunately, you're wrong. While the Wiimote is theoretically better for shooters than the control pads, it's still going to look like a dog and run like ass and you might as well be playing it on a computer because it's still not better than a keyboard and mouse. Now, is it better for lightgun shooters/rail shooters? Not even then. The Guncon is still a far better and more accurate peripheral. The wiimote has certain issues, but using it in the same capacity as the Guncon isn't one of them. You are correct that mouse and keyboard is the way to go but a console isn't meant to be used like a pc. I'm interested how they can push forward technology in their own ways. Like you I'm interested in what devs can do with things like gpu and cpu but where we differ is that my sense of curiosity is broad enough to accept what the wii is trying to do. What you see as insanity in me is really a reflection of how you aren't as broadminded as myself. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 14, 2008, 04:37:50 PM Yes, you're the future. Obviously.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: UnSub on December 14, 2008, 04:45:31 PM The big difference with the Wii is that anyone can play it - my wife hasn't touched a console since the Atari 2600 and my son is 4. Both can play Wii games. Hopefully someone at MS / Sony noticed this for the next generation of control systems. Sorry to say it, but fuck those people. They aren't gamers and have no real desire to be. Just because a significant portion of the population is intimidated by a game pad or mouse/keyboard isn't my problem. Let 'em hang out in the Nintendo ghetto. I'm quite happy to be an elitist in this regard if it means my games aren't brought down to a level where a retarded chimp can play 'em. Enjoy playing with yourself then. Games have evolved a long way from titles that were hard just due to shoddy collision detection, bad level layout, limited deaths (that came from arcades anyway, who wanted people to pump more money into the box) and iffy controls. If you don't want to play retarded chimp games, fine, then don't. But don't be surprised when your play tastes consigned to the dustbin of history because hindsight shows that that the "fun" you wanted was just badly designed. And it isn't the difficulty of the game that is the issue at all. It is the ease of the control scheme to pick up, even if you've never played a console before in your life. So Nintendo has down the "easy to learn" thing down pat. They also released the console at a price level that is known to be the consumer sweet spot so that they flew off the shelves. As for "simplified" games, when I started playing, there was one joystick and one button. I've lived through simple control schemes to this point, where there are two joysticks and 10 buttons (rough count) that are a huge barrier to even getting people to play because they don't know where to start. So let's not talk about "simple" without forgetting where we came from. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: NiX on December 14, 2008, 05:21:47 PM (http://i38.tinypic.com/1zw2snn.jpg)
Mmmmm, complexity! Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Velorath on December 14, 2008, 05:54:56 PM The big difference with the Wii is that anyone can play it - my wife hasn't touched a console since the Atari 2600 and my son is 4. Both can play Wii games. Hopefully someone at MS / Sony noticed this for the next generation of control systems. Sorry to say it, but fuck those people. They aren't gamers and have no real desire to be. Just because a significant portion of the population is intimidated by a game pad or mouse/keyboard isn't my problem. Let 'em hang out in the Nintendo ghetto. I'm quite happy to be an elitist in this regard if it means my games aren't brought down to a level where a retarded chimp can play 'em. I don't really find anything about the gameplay in the Atari, Nintendo, or SNES era to be needlessly complex. The only thing that really made games harder back then is that most games didn't have ability to be saved. If you play any game that has an actual ending to it, on an emulator that allows you to save, you'll probably be able to beat it in around the same time or sooner than most games made today. It doesn't make them more complex in the same way that XP loss on death in early MMO's didn't make them more complex than modern day MMO's. They just excessively punished you when you fucked up. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Triforcer on December 14, 2008, 06:10:28 PM I trust the irony between what Schild/Big Gulp etc. is complaining is lacking in singleplayer games and what they hate in MMOs isn't lost on anyone. Accordingly to your logic, you should love Vanguard and UO.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Jain Zar on December 14, 2008, 07:59:43 PM An install base of 200M means jack shit if the attach rate for anything that's not a ninty title is god awful. You're not seeing that AAA stuff because it's not worth the dev time. You're not seeing AAA stuff becuase the dev's think they are too "good" for making games on the system, or they just aren't smart enough to figure out how to use waggle for anything but gimmicks and remapping traditional controls. Wii haters don't listen to this one though. If it doesn't have bloom and 1080p brown and greyness it simply cannot make fun games. Despite you know, the 3 decades plus where people happily didn't need endless piles of this shit. And as to the whole "Consoles don't have turn based strategy games" thing? What about FF Tactics? Disgaea 1-3? Half of what Atlus fucking releases on a quarterly basis? Apparently there is enough of a fucking market base for it. Sure they won't sell better than generic fucking FPS or Sports game number x bazillion, but there are more braindead mongoloids who only care if a game is pretty and has exploding heads with anime levels of blood PSI spurting out of the neck stump and games they can pop some collars and drink a Natty Ice while playing. And if we add in portable consoles (which I think there are tons of studies saying they are generally played at home more than on the go anyhow) there are even more. Hell, unlike PC TBS games I can actually go to Best Buy, Gamesuck, Wal Mart, or Target and pick them up without having to be aware of Shrapnel, Matrix, or Battlefront existing and hoping their game won't be a bug infested piece of former Soviet Bloc made shitware. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: ezrast on December 14, 2008, 08:08:39 PM Did you just prove a point by declaring that Mega Man 2 is just like Vanguard?
You're seriously, for real, trying to say that Mega Man 2 punishes the player for screwing up, and Vanguard also punishes the player for screwing up, and so they both present a comparable challenge for Schild? Really? Back on the subject of hardware, I'd like to remind everyone that the Wii controller, uh, isn't that good. Actually, scratch that: the Wiimote blows, hard. The layout is terrible: + and - are inaccessible, and B is prone to accidental presses when held horizontally. More to the point, Trying to use the Wiimote as a pointer is consistently frustrating for me - get too close or too far from the "sensor bar" (you know, the one that contains no sensors) and it stops working; otherwise the cursor is jittery and prone to jumping off the screen. The motion sensing is also pretty inaccurate. So maybe the reason game devs aren't making good games for the system has something to do with the difficulty in dealing with the controller hardware. It seems to me that the more extensively a game uses the Wiimote, the bigger an impact the screwy controller is going to have, and the Wiimote may simply lack the capacity to support input mechanisms more subtle than what's demanded of it in Wii Sports. I mean, for Pete's sake, I can't even punch in the same place consistently in Wii Boxing. The Wii is first generation hardware. The N64 controller was awesome when it came out, but look at it now and the design is just terrible (three handles? Seriously?). But it led pretty directly to the Dual Shock, whose design is still pretty standard today. Same thing will happen here - Sony and MS are going to take Nintendo's ideas, improve the engineering, and make them work well. That's when we'll start seeing really good games that make use of motion sensing controls. Then Nintendo will falter for a generation as they get soundly beaten at their own game, decide they need new innovative features in order to compete, and the cycle will repeat. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Fabricated on December 14, 2008, 08:29:23 PM An install base of 200M means jack shit if the attach rate for anything that's not a ninty title is god awful. You're not seeing that AAA stuff because it's not worth the dev time. The attach rate on the Wii has been equal to or marginally higher than the PS3's. Try again. You're not seeing AAA stuff becuase the dev's think they are too "good" for making games on the system, or they just aren't smart enough to figure out how to use waggle for anything but gimmicks and remapping traditional controls. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Sheepherder on December 15, 2008, 02:13:26 AM I trust the irony between what Schild/Big Gulp etc. is complaining is lacking in singleplayer games and what they hate in MMOs isn't lost on anyone. Accordingly to your logic, you should love Vanguard and UO. You're missing a subtle difference: side-scrollers cockblock you when you fail repeatedly at something (usually) challenging. MMO's cockpunch you when you or someone in your vicinity fuck up something easy and are constantly cockblocking you the rest of the time. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Azazel on December 15, 2008, 05:02:25 AM Well, he said games that he "must have". I'm sure the "must own" lists would vary per individual. For example, mine don't and will never include a Halo title or any console FPS. :-P
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Sky on December 15, 2008, 07:23:41 AM It doesn't matter if it's an orange or a basket of bananas, the point still stands that due to it's position in the market, it's mere existance is not only holding back development of decent shit, but it's changed the way the gaming market is perceived (for the worse) imo. You're starting to sound like a pc gamer now! :why_so_serious:Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Rasix on December 15, 2008, 07:24:25 AM It's not a binary decision. Heh.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: HAMMER FRENZY on December 15, 2008, 08:41:10 AM I specifically don't play the wii because of the titles available, and not so much because of the controls etc. I like the idea of the wii-mote and would love to see it implemented well. But the truth is devs are way too lazy to do that because they can make shit and till sell regardless. When controls are well implemented, they are confusing and too physical, then the same fools go play drums on RB2... :uhrr: A good example is Hajime No Ippo for the Wii. The game actually boxed pretty well and the controls were pretty deep. It could not have been done anywhere else. The game got hammered for it's controls. I think that the Wii has the potential to really add a lot to gaming and how we play games, but it wont be realized because of the potential to make money as opposed to making inovative and well implemented game play. It is possible but not bloody likely.
Also, to chime in on the control thing, I agree with schild. The wii library leaning so far to simplistic game play and control will make for a generation of gamers with an inability to play games at a higher level. (see castlevania wii) I already see this online when I play fighting games. People raised on games that required more from the player in the way of input do better, Super Street Fighter HD Remix has pulled so many casual players out and I swear that 80% - 90% of the people you play are fucking helpless punching bags, not because they don't understand high level fighting game concepts, but because they can't count on themselves being able to execute simple inputs in a timely manner. We are not talking about 1 frame reversal shoryukens, we are talking standing anti-air roundhouse. It is borderline retarded. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: fuser on December 15, 2008, 08:53:11 AM I have had a Wii for two years now and I'm regretting purchasing it. Last time I had it on about a year ago to play Wii sports with the family. I have only been using it to play VC games towards the end as there was nothing released I had interest in playing.
Honestly I see no improvement in it over the GC hardware wise and the wiimote is accessible to all but useless compared to the controls provided by a wavebird. Considering all games are now designed for the wiimote, we're fscked unless playing older GC games. The "online" features are terrible, honestly whoever came up with the game codes had serious cockblock issues. My DS is getting heavy usage, KORG DS-10 of all things. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Merusk on December 15, 2008, 09:08:58 AM You guys talking about "playing games at a higher level" are amusing to no end. It reminds me that I'm not quite as insane and far gone as I sometimes think.
Our WII gets plenty of play time, while I know either the PS3 or the 360 would be sitting on its ass gathering dust right now as a nice $500 paperweight, much like my brother's does. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: HAMMER FRENZY on December 15, 2008, 01:35:33 PM You guys talking about "playing games at a higher level" are amusing to no end. It reminds me that I'm not quite as insane and far gone as I sometimes think. Our WII gets plenty of play time, while I know either the PS3 or the 360 would be sitting on its ass gathering dust right now as a nice $500 paperweight, much like my brother's does. Yeah, I can see how some people think that it is a bit much, but fighting games and puzzle games are the only games I really try to learn about and play a bit more. Oddly enough I don't play them as often but when I play, knowing what I am doing as opposed to just pressing buttons really makes the games enjoyable. I guess it is like playing chess or any other game of skill. I really like chess a lot as well hahah. If you learn about one fighting game, and learn about all the specifics and what-not, other fighting games are much easier to learn about and the time frame from getting from novice to advanced is quite short. It is the higher level concepts that may take a few weeks to really get a hold of. It is not nearly as involved as many people seem to think. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 15, 2008, 01:43:54 PM You guys talking about "playing games at a higher level" are amusing to no end. It reminds me that I'm not quite as insane and far gone as I sometimes think. Are you one of the people still playing WoW? I'm just asking because a lot of the people who rag on me for ragging on the Wii for creating hilariously bad gamers are slowly becoming useless at other games due to spending too much time in a game that's basically always on cruise control. Just wondering.Our WII gets plenty of play time, while I know either the PS3 or the 360 would be sitting on its ass gathering dust right now as a nice $500 paperweight, much like my brother's does. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Velorath on December 15, 2008, 01:54:58 PM Do we really want to start whipping it out and trying to see who the "hardcore" gamers here are?
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 15, 2008, 01:56:02 PM Do we really want to start whipping it out and trying to see who the "hardcore" gamers here are? No, I just don't want people that raid in WoW to be arguing for or against the Wii because it's INSANE to even take an angle when you're grinding away at a 4 year old game. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Warskull on December 15, 2008, 03:13:28 PM Zack and Wiki would've gotten just as much praise as a downloadable for the XBL or PSN. Saying otherwise is as stupid as saying Braid would've gotten more praise for being on the Wii. Zack and Wiki would have been pointless to make on another console. A huge part of the game is using the Wii mote to control the objects. A lot of the fun comes from experimenting on how to use the objects and part of that experiment is figuring out how to control the objects. You cut out a large and interesting part of the game when you cut out the motion controls, the entire game was built around them. The reason the Wii is selling so hot is because it has new ideas. The reason it doesn't have a lot of good third party games is because a lot of developers are stuck in the "make the graphics a bit better, add formulaic item X, Y, and Z, then release" mentality. Nintendo is offering gamers something new and interesting. Control can open doors in gaming just as much as graphics. You also have to remember that there are going to be a ton of bad games on whatever system exists, just like there are a ton of bad movies, and lots of other bad examples of any media format. The question isn't "does this system have bad games?", if you used that metric the NES, SNES, PS1, PS2, and whatever other system you remember fondly would fall into the bad system category. The question is "do the good games on this system make it worth it?" Ultimately, introducing new demographics to games and introducing new ways to interact with games is a good thing. You could argue that the analog stick and rumble pack were gimmicks, but look how they have been worked in everywhere. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Jain Zar on December 15, 2008, 03:23:08 PM Do we really want to start whipping it out and trying to see who the "hardcore" gamers here are? No, I just don't want people that raid in WoW to be arguing for or against the Wii because it's INSANE to even take an angle when you're grinding away at a 4 year old game. If they find it fun who are we to question it? I'd rather deal with so called easy game players than some frame counting fighting game asshat. I play games to have FUN, not to be challenged, not to be some competitive asshole. I usually play my games on Easy or Medium difficulty. Because its FUN. I pop some podcasts on my iMac, and then play my games. At work I have the PSP/NGage/DS/iPod Touch/Neo Geo Pocket Color going and I usually am listening to the news on one of the few TVs not permanently on whatever irrelevant ass sports game is on. I don't mind being engaged, but I don't play games for NES Ninja Gaiden levels of abuse either. Same reason I avoid most online play. I have better things to do than hear racist, homophobic, and antisemitic talk to be the toppings of the douchebag shit talk sundae that IS online gaming in general. I'm sure I have told this story before. In the Navy there was this fellow dork (well I say fellow, but he was on the antisocial side. Never invited me to play AD&D or videogames or anything even though I was into into the same shit he was. Probably because I dared choose the Turbo Duo over the Sega CD. Gee, 300 bucks for a whole new system that came with tons of games vs 300 bucks for just an add on to a system I had at home? HMMM..) who always insisted on playing games on the hardest setting. You knew he was playing videogames because every 3-6 minutes the floor would hear the yells of "MOTHER FUCKER COCK SUCKER", as he would die constantly. I still remember this and this was freaking 1993. Don't remember his name, but I do remember his yelling at his videogame. This does not sound like a good way to spend my free time. I can and have beaten hard videogames. Its BAD WRONG FUN to me and anyone who says otherwise can go fuck themselves with a copy of Ninja Gaiden. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 15, 2008, 03:41:46 PM Quote The reason the Wii is selling so hot is because it has new ideas. Can you point me to a single, SINGLE truly new idea, please? Just one. Just one new idea for the Wii. Please, by all means, do. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: HAMMER FRENZY on December 15, 2008, 03:53:35 PM Do we really want to start whipping it out and trying to see who the "hardcore" gamers here are? No, I just don't want people that raid in WoW to be arguing for or against the Wii because it's INSANE to even take an angle when you're grinding away at a 4 year old game. If they find it fun who are we to question it? I'd rather deal with so called easy game players than some frame counting fighting game asshat. I play games to have FUN, not to be challenged, not to be some competitive asshole. I usually play my games on Easy or Medium difficulty. Because its FUN. I pop some podcasts on my iMac, and then play my games. At work I have the PSP/NGage/DS/iPod Touch/Neo Geo Pocket Color going and I usually am listening to the news on one of the few TVs not permanently on whatever irrelevant ass sports game is on. I don't mind being engaged, but I don't play games for NES Ninja Gaiden levels of abuse either. Same reason I avoid most online play. I have better things to do than hear racist, homophobic, and antisemitic talk to be the toppings of the douchebag shit talk sundae that IS online gaming in general. I'm sure I have told this story before. In the Navy there was this fellow dork (well I say fellow, but he was on the antisocial side. Never invited me to play AD&D or videogames or anything even though I was into into the same shit he was. Probably because I dared choose the Turbo Duo over the Sega CD. Gee, 300 bucks for a whole new system that came with tons of games vs 300 bucks for just an add on to a system I had at home? HMMM..) who always insisted on playing games on the hardest setting. You knew he was playing videogames because every 3-6 minutes the floor would hear the yells of "MOTHER FUCKER COCK SUCKER", as he would die constantly. I still remember this and this was freaking 1993. Don't remember his name, but I do remember his yelling at his videogame. This does not sound like a good way to spend my free time. I can and have beaten hard videogames. Its BAD WRONG FUN to me and anyone who says otherwise can go fuck themselves with a copy of Ninja Gaiden. Yeah I can see that some people can take playing fighting games too seriously, but really, some games are just deep and the player base is available,a nd if someone really enjoys playing, and to stay competitive they have to learn higher level stuff, so be it. I don't think it is fair to all them asshats because they enjoy playing Street Fighter, or Tekken, or Virtua Fighter or Guilty Gear at advanced or even tournament level. That is fun to them, and there should be games for people who enjoy fighting games, hard shooters, challenging side scrollers or whatever. If you are comfortable just playing more casual stuff or playign on medium, that is fine, but don't assume that everyone who score attacks Don Pachi, or plays serious Puyo Pop, or plays expert drums on rockband, is automatically too into gaming and therefore a loser. It makes you sound like an asshat and that you are fucking yourself with a copy or Bejewled. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Jain Zar on December 15, 2008, 04:13:35 PM Yeah I can see that some people can take playing fighting games too seriously, but really, some games are just deep and the player base is available,a nd if someone really enjoys playing, and to stay competitive they have to learn higher level stuff, so be it. I don't think it is fair to all them asshats because they enjoy playing Street Fighter, or Tekken, or Virtua Fighter or Guilty Gear at advanced or even tournament level. That is fun to them, and there should be games for people who enjoy fighting games, hard shooters, challenging side scrollers or whatever. If you are comfortable just playing more casual stuff or playign on medium, that is fine, but don't assume that everyone who score attacks Don Pachi, or plays serious Puyo Pop, or plays expert drums on rockband, is automatically too into gaming and therefore a loser. It makes you sound like an asshat and that you are fucking yourself with a copy or Bejewled. The thing is the hardcore 10% ers tend to be the loudest and most vocal of any game's audience. And because they get so invested they get paid more attention by the developers which gives them MORE delusions of grandeur and the game gets pushed towards them and not everyone else, which eventually will drive everyone else away. (See also comic books, Advanced Squad Leader, most MMORPGs, the bullet hell SHMUPs..) You HAVE to try to bring in new people and make a game accessible for all. Its why MMORPGs shouldn't just make content for the max/near max level players. Its why Galaga can still be found in most surviving arcades but your average Treasure styled SHMUP aint. Its why people will still play Pac Man even if the odds of them playing anything newer are next to nothing. The competitive groups are fine.. provided they stay in their little niche and stop bothering the majority. Let's take a modern game as an example. Fallout. If the harcore fanbase is to be believed Fallout 3 was doomed to be the shittiest shit that ever shitted from a shit. Yet its been selling massively well in spite of the hardcore's insistence it look, feel, and play in a manner only they want. And come to find out, even turn based whores llke myself who would be happy if game technology never passed the abilities of a Voodoo 3 card enjoy it. Competitive and hardcore players only want what is best for their niche and they basically don't care and are dismissive of everyone else. Well gaming is a BIIIG market now. There is room for everyone. The trick is that some games are only gonna sell to the hardcore, others to the majority, and yet others in the middle someplace. The problem is when they intersect. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 15, 2008, 04:18:46 PM There's a difference between the obsessed and hardcore.
The obsessed post on the boards and drive people nuts. The hardcore just play the games and rarely, if ever, post on a message board, unless they have something informational to add. On top of that, they tend to have their own little communities (SRK, f13, etc) where they stay confined and out of people's way - unless someone gets in their way in which case they'll defend it to the death. Also, I'm going to assume you know NOTHING about the arcade market. Your hardcore shmupper or fighter is going to have their own dedicated cab and the boards. There's a reason Galaga is found in arcades in America - 1. It's retro and that's cool, 2. It makes old people squeel because they're easy to entertain and 3. They already bought it. Finally, outside of the home, arcades are largely dead in America, so comparing Galaga to a CAVE game (good luck finding a Treasure Shmup in America) is just dumb. Anyway, people who want Mushihimesama and Ketsui Black Label already have it in their living room. Much like I have Gal Panic S, MvC2 and Mr. Driller 2. Why go to an arcade when you can just own it. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Fordel on December 15, 2008, 07:20:48 PM Was Mega Man 2 the one with the aquatic stage, that had the giant Robot frogs that barfed out baby robot frogs endlessly, that you would farm with your saw blade power until you maxed your power/health/life reserves?
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 15, 2008, 07:25:54 PM Was Mega Man 2 the one with the aquatic stage, that had the giant Robot frogs that barfed out baby robot frogs endlessly, that you would farm with your saw blade power until you maxed your power/health/life reserves? Yes, metal blades on bubble man's stage. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Fordel on December 15, 2008, 07:32:03 PM I thought so, but there has been like, 42 Mega Man's since and I've long lost track of what is which.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Ratman_tf on December 15, 2008, 09:10:39 PM I play games to have FUN, not to be challenged, This is my approach as well. I like to be moderatley challenged, but I don't like to feel that I'm failing at a game because I can't 100% it on ultra-hard mode. I'll leave that to the OCD gamers on Jolt cola. Mostly I play them to be entertained, and that's an important difference that's part of WoW's success factor, and I suspect part of the success factor of the Wii. Quote I don't mind being engaged, but I don't play games for NES Ninja Gaiden levels of abuse either. God that game was a ball-buster. I used to literally throw the cartridge out onto the lawn when I got frustrated. You can get some good distance if you put a decent spin on an NES cartridge, and it was more fun than actually playing the game. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Jain Zar on December 15, 2008, 09:30:06 PM There's a difference between the obsessed and hardcore. I call bullshit here hoss. Hardcore and obsessed are the same thing. You aren't hardcore into a game or genre unless you are a little bit obsessed with it.The obsessed post on the boards and drive people nuts. The hardcore just play the games and rarely, if ever, post on a message board, unless they have something informational to add. On top of that, they tend to have their own little communities (SRK, f13, etc) where they stay confined and out of people's way - unless someone gets in their way in which case they'll defend it to the death. Quote Also, I'm going to assume you know NOTHING about the arcade market. Your hardcore shmupper or fighter is going to have their own dedicated cab and the boards. There's a reason Galaga is found in arcades in America - 1. It's retro and that's cool, 2. It makes old people squeel because they're easy to entertain and 3. They already bought it. Finally, outside of the home, arcades are largely dead in America, so comparing Galaga to a CAVE game (good luck finding a Treasure Shmup in America) is just dumb. Anyway, people who want Mushihimesama and Ketsui Black Label already have it in their living room. Much like I have Gal Panic S, MvC2 and Mr. Driller 2. Why go to an arcade when you can just own it. Not too many people actually own an arcade machine. Because they are expensive, take up space, and are increasingly hard to find. Plus the cost/entertainment ratio is honestly SHIT on an arcade game. Hell, most people blanch at home arcade stick prices. I have more retrocollections than Carter's got pills and I blanch at it! (Id still drop a C note on a decent stick compatible with: PS2, Xbox 360, Mac/PC, and Wii/Gamecube. Dual Bat sticks, 6 action buttons plus start/select, and a trackball. Something like that would run closer to 200 by my admittedly casual investigations.) (Of course if I could get an Atari Star Wars machine for under 600 sit down, 300 standard including delivery my ass would own one. Its my favorite arcade game of all time and one that no home version can ever reproduce correctly due to the control method. The only other machines I would have to own would be Top Skater, or Daytona USA which are stupidly large and would cost an insanely stupid amount. Others I would happily get for under 150: Rygar, Gi Joe, Indiana Jones Temple of Doom, Virtual On, Raiden 2, any of the Alien games. I'm discounting pinball here, but I would LOOOVE to get my hands on a Jurassic Park or Star Wars pinball machine. Having to upkeep the machine would be a nightmare, but still!) I am quite aware the US arcade scene is dead or dying. Appealing to the hardcore was a small part of this. Why play some numbnut THAT GUY for 50cents-1dollar a pop when you can play the same game at home eternally for 20-50 bucks? And have expanded content to it and choose your own difficulty setting? Arcades became increasingly SHMUP, Fighter, Lightgun, Racer, and now ticket redemption games only. If it wasn't for Neo Geo machines it would be even worse. (At least once in a while they had something other than fighters.) And I KNOW you did not diss Galaga, which IS the best fucking SHMUP ever made. Its easy to learn, accessible, and FUN. That's why its popular. You have 3 controls. Left, Right, Shoot. Its Space Invaders taken to its best. Its why even its sequels never really outshone it. (Gaplus. Galaga 88, Galaga Remix) It goes to the heart of it. Some games are eternal classics because they fuckin knocked the ball out of the park to start with. You hardly even need instructions for them. Outside of looking prettier can Arkanoid, Tetris, or Bubble Bobble really be done better? People STILL adore Donkey Kong, Defender, Ms Pac Man, Asteroids, and Robotron. Im not even a fan of Defender or Robotron but I understand why they have such devotion. If you look at the most noteworthy arcade collectors' displays they tend to make them fit the atmosphere of an 80s arcade. There was something about those things. And from all reports normal people go gaga if they have a friend or are invited into a home with that sort of awesome den. If I had time, money, and desire I would do up one like that. Neon signs, 80s music.. That shit RULED. Even little 6-8 year old me was entranced. The base arcades from the early 90s when I was in the Navy were pretty awesome too, especially when killing time waiting for my Battletech Center games across the mall. (I went to Chicago once every month or so to play Battletech Center at the North Pier Mall. Still have some of my game record sheets!) And is that Gal Panic a shooter or the infamous porno Qix clone? If its the later I must facepalm. You ARE proving my point for me though. Saying Galaga aint shit and all because its so simple and accessible. OMG WHY ELSE WOULD SOMEONE PLAY A GAME APPROACHING ITS 30TH ANNIVERSARY!? It sure couldn't be because it was a great game or anything.... Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Jain Zar on December 15, 2008, 09:49:10 PM I play games to have FUN, not to be challenged, This is my approach as well. I like to be moderatley challenged, but I don't like to feel that I'm failing at a game because I can't 100% it on ultra-hard mode. I'll leave that to the OCD gamers on Jolt cola. Mostly I play them to be entertained, and that's an important difference that's part of WoW's success factor, and I suspect part of the success factor of the Wii. The XP debt and megagrind is what lead me to leave City of Heroes. I liked my Blaster. She was sort of a redheaded Samus Aran or as close as I could get. She stopped being fun at a certain level and had more debt than I knew what to do with. Sure my Scrapper rocked out, but the XP debt and grind made my style of fun breezy exploratory risktaking play a dangerous proposition. (I would say Asheron's Call was another good one, but it had the stupid item penalty which ruined an otherwise neato game in spite of its sub Playstation 1 level graphics.) (Ive heard CoH finally dropped the debt thing according to the hostess of a local LARP group but until the Mac client gets finished I won't know for sure.) Quote God that game was a ball-buster. I used to literally throw the cartridge out onto the lawn when I got frustrated. You can get some good distance if you put a decent spin on an NES cartridge, and it was more fun than actually playing the game. I actually beat the first 2 NGs as a teenager. I got NG 1 for the Wii VC and level 6 just made me give up. Oh not because of the cheese, I got through it. But then losing to a boss and having to do the ENTIRE FUCKING LEVEL OVER made me say fuck it. Take one of the most abusive levels ever made that isn't in Battletoads or a Lucasarts X Wing title and making you redo the whole thing if you died to the first boss is bullshit. I don't have that sort of time or patience. Plus for all I know since its been nearly 20 years since I beat NG originally losing to a later boss might mean I have to beat all the bosses in a row with one lifebar in some sadistic boss rush. Making things for the elite intentionally is dickish. Its why I don't get mad the Advance Wars games have the same rough difficulty level. Just because I have beaten every one of them and tons of the challenge levels doesn't mean Joe Gamer has. Intelligent Systems doesn't make the games to please me, they make it for everyone. Hence I find most of the games not too hard especially when I figure out the trick to the level when many people consider them tough. Every game installment in a series is someone's first experience with the franchise. The days of Ultima and Bard's Tale autosaving your PC's deaths to disk, Wizardry's sheer level of abuse (taken to OBSCENE levels in Return of Werdna), or your average UK made game's sheer levels of hell are thankfully over. Its not coddling. Its an understanding that everyone who buys a game ought to have a fair shot at seeing the whole thing. Leave the digital dickwaving to the Korean RTSers, the Fatalities, and the Billy Mitchells of the world. Give the rest of us FUN. Or at least make it so everyone can enjoy the game on their own terms. Like Guitar Hero. Multiple difficulty levels set to engage people of every skill level. I would have never bought more than the original if I couldn't have played it on Easy and gotten used to that sort of game, eventually raising to Medium where I am now generally happy and having fun. Outside of end tier game songs I usually 5 star them all. Its at a level I find fun and enjoyable and am not frustrated. The same with the old Street Fighter 2 on the SNES. I got good at it by playing it on every difficulty level, though the last 2-3 stars ceased being fun and were more an adventure in exploiting a cheating ass AI with imbalanced boss characters. (Max level Bison was cheese on a level only exceeded by Mortal Kombat and King of Fighters franchise bosses.) If it had one difficulty level we would know as HARD I would have never completed it or ever bought another SF game. Hell, it might have put me off the genre entirely. Its one big mistake most Neo Geo arcade cabinets had. Every owner put them at hard and those fighting games were usually sick on lower levels anyhow! Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 15, 2008, 10:14:08 PM There's a difference between the obsessed and hardcore. I call bullshit here hoss. Hardcore and obsessed are the same thing. You aren't hardcore into a game or genre unless you are a little bit obsessed with it.The obsessed post on the boards and drive people nuts. The hardcore just play the games and rarely, if ever, post on a message board, unless they have something informational to add. On top of that, they tend to have their own little communities (SRK, f13, etc) where they stay confined and out of people's way - unless someone gets in their way in which case they'll defend it to the death. You're only saying that because you want them to be the same thing. They aren't. Sorry. Sure, some people cross over, you're hardcore and obsessed with TBS titles. It's pretty obvious to anyone that's been reading your post for a few years. Me? I have an excuse, I run a site about gaming. Quote Because they are expensive, take up space, and are increasingly hard to find. I stopped there, you know nothing. They are in fact becoming cheaper and easier to find, but thanks for trying. Protip: Arcade sites regulars do full carton (as in warehouse giant metal thing) full of japanese arcade machines and often people are replacing their own. I was even able to find the exact cab I wanted in Arizona less than a month or so after I decided I wanted one. Ironically, I found it on Craigslist - we're talking make and model exact. Just saying, your knowledge of this is incredibly small if you think that and I don't know how you managed to post so much after that sentence. Rarity is a matter of perception for people that haven't done the research. More edit: OK, admittedly I read your post and yes, Gal Panic S is the Qix clone. Arguably the best version of Qix available actually, but I'll just assume you haven't researched that either. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Velorath on December 16, 2008, 02:21:42 AM This has turned into a politics thread without the politics.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Valmorian on December 16, 2008, 07:52:58 AM You're only saying that because you want them to be the same thing. Are you sure you aren't just denying it because you DON'T want it to be true? In any case, I think that anyone who has an arcade console let alone multiple arcade consoles in their home qualifies as "obsessed" to MOST people. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Sluggo140 on December 16, 2008, 08:15:38 AM With all the arcade machines in homes I'm finding a disturbing reference to rule 34 here. Though I will not go looking for that one.
There is something to be said about the pragmatic value of an arcade machine. It invokes a different experience for each of us at a different time. Does playing star wars on a mame emulator qualify as the same experience as sitting in the machine in the fall of 84 at the bowling alley, smelling the smoke, hearing the pinball, the pain of running out of quarters. I don't think so. I think that playing the games isn't the same as actually having the game and being able to relive the experience. I'm not so sure its about hardcore vs. obsessed but merely about the quality of the experience. Just like post about galaga earlier, its fun its retro, everyone can play it. Personally I was all about Mr. Do's Castle and Sinistar when I was a kid. That beign said I gotta give props to those that have the stand up machines in their living room, I'll just make sure I bring clorox wipes if I want to play them. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Jain Zar on December 16, 2008, 11:05:49 AM I stopped there, you know nothing. They are in fact becoming cheaper and easier to find, but thanks for trying. Protip: Arcade sites regulars do full carton (as in warehouse giant metal thing) full of japanese arcade machines and often people are replacing their own. I was even able to find the exact cab I wanted in Arizona less than a month or so after I decided I wanted one. Ironically, I found it on Craigslist - we're talking make and model exact. Just saying, your knowledge of this is incredibly small if you think that and I don't know how you managed to post so much after that sentence. Rarity is a matter of perception for people that haven't done the research. More edit: OK, admittedly I read your post and yes, Gal Panic S is the Qix clone. Arguably the best version of Qix available actually, but I'll just assume you haven't researched that either. Japanese machines maybe, but you won't find many US collectors of them. We generally want large stand up machines the way God intended. (Because cocktail machines are so sought after most of the time there is no point in trying really. Even though I wouldn't mind having a Satan's Hollow machine I remember a burger joint having 20+ years ago.) Ok.. maybe I wouldn't mind getting the topdown Macross DYRL SHMUP I played in Crete in 93-94 but that's because its fucking MACROSS DYRL and not because its a Japanese cabinet. Though some home arcade folks do recommend getting Japanese gambling machines to fill out a collection. Pachinko, Pachislots.. apparently even big name liscensed machines go for around a C note. And while in the Navy I actually played the first 2 Gals Panic games because they had them on base no less. Looking back they really weren't that good of games. Plus also, they were sad porno games. Though being from Japan I guess it wasn't a rape filled lolifest so it had one thing up on the rest of its genre... And I appreciate being told I don't know shit. Its nice. Maybe my region and life situation may be different than yours hmm? I sure as fuck don't have the sort of money you seem to throw around on games every month. Oh well.. you can't help it. The PS3 doing a slow nosedive into irrelevance outside of something to laugh at must be driving you bonkers. My only major gaming irritation is Sega not giving us Sega Ages Phantasy Star 1, 2, and Dragon Force in English. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 16, 2008, 12:27:23 PM We generally want large stand up machines the way God intended. Don't include yourself with the general We. Also, cocktail tables are still custom made in nearly every state in America because the demand is high enough for home usage. They're over priced though and you can often get a used one. Quote And I appreciate being told I don't know shit. Its nice. Maybe my region and life situation may be different than yours hmm? No, this is the internet, it has nothing to do with the region and life situation, but given your assumptions about the home arcade market, it's fairly obvious I just read more. I wasn't insulting your lifestyle, I was insulting your assumptions about a market you don't nearly fully understand or understand even a little. Also, obvious troll is obvious. Nice try though. That beign said I gotta give props to those that have the stand up machines in their living room, I'll just make sure I bring clorox wipes if I want to play them. I imagine there are folks that have arcade machines that are anal retentive enough to make you wipe them down like that and such. But folks with japanese cabs tend to have cigarette burns already in them (mine had them, I imagine there was some old guy smoking Seven Stars getting angry at some obscure horse racing game). Japanese cabs have space to put drinks and ashtrays down. Also, they're made to be sat at, I like that. As for the other bit, I have the arcade machine simply to play certain games that were never released for consoles and to have experiences that were never replicated on consoles. Seriously, Arcade machines never really matched the home console feel. Also, Neo-Geo is cheaper in arcade form. Odds are, despite having some ultra rare titles, I spent less money on the arcade machine and all my Neo Geo games than I would have if I got a Neo Geo AES system. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: ezrast on December 16, 2008, 12:29:41 PM Because I liked this thread better before it was about arcade machines:
If they find it fun who are we to question it? Is there something I'm missing that makes this not blatant hypocrisy? Serious question.I'd rather deal with so called easy game players than some frame counting fighting game asshat. I play games to have FUN, not to be challenged, not to be some competitive asshole. Yeah I can see that some people can take playing fighting games too seriously, but really, some games are just deep and the player base is available,a nd if someone really enjoys playing, and to stay competitive they have to learn higher level stuff, so be it. I don't think it is fair to all them asshats because they enjoy playing Street Fighter, or Tekken, or Virtua Fighter or Guilty Gear at advanced or even tournament level. That is fun to them, and there should be games for people who enjoy fighting games, hard shooters, challenging side scrollers or whatever. If you are comfortable just playing more casual stuff or playign on medium, that is fine, but don't assume that everyone who score attacks Don Pachi, or plays serious Puyo Pop, or plays expert drums on rockband, is automatically too into gaming and therefore a loser. It makes you sound like an asshat and that you are fucking yourself with a copy or Bejewled. The thing is the hardcore 10% ers tend to be the loudest and most vocal of any game's audience. And because they get so invested they get paid more attention by the developers which gives them MORE delusions of grandeur and the game gets pushed towards them and not everyone else, which eventually will drive everyone else away. (See also comic books, Advanced Squad Leader, most MMORPGs, the bullet hell SHMUPs..) You HAVE to try to bring in new people and make a game accessible for all. Its why MMORPGs shouldn't just make content for the max/near max level players. Its why Galaga can still be found in most surviving arcades but your average Treasure styled SHMUP aint. Its why people will still play Pac Man even if the odds of them playing anything newer are next to nothing. The competitive groups are fine.. provided they stay in their little niche and stop bothering the majority. Let's take a modern game as an example. Fallout. If the harcore fanbase is to be believed Fallout 3 was doomed to be the shittiest shit that ever shitted from a shit. Yet its been selling massively well in spite of the hardcore's insistence it look, feel, and play in a manner only they want. And come to find out, even turn based whores llke myself who would be happy if game technology never passed the abilities of a Voodoo 3 card enjoy it. Competitive and hardcore players only want what is best for their niche and they basically don't care and are dismissive of everyone else. Well gaming is a BIIIG market now. There is room for everyone. The trick is that some games are only gonna sell to the hardcore, others to the majority, and yet others in the middle someplace. The problem is when they intersect. No, the problem is when people don't realize that a game can be accessible and deep at the same time. Anything else is just bad game design. Smash Brothers and Soul Calibur are great at this; they give dedicated, technical players lots of stuff to do while still allowing button mashy newbs the chance to get some flashy effects and pull off the occasional cheese combo. Catering to both groups is important. If there's no depth to keep players around, the game will never develop a real fan base, but if there's no accessibility then it turns into a cult game consisting of the few willing to deal with the learning curve. But it's always the competitive players - the ones with the best understanding of the game they're playing - that take the shit for wanting the game to be fun for them. How is telling us to "stay in [our] little niche and stop bothering the majority" constructive? We're not the ones telling you you're having fun the wrong way. When, exactly, have dedicated players made a game get "pushed towards them and not everyone else"? Improving balance and high-level play generally doesn't hurt low-level players, and if it does that's the dev's fault, not the gamers'. Hammer Frenzy mentioned chess, and that's a pretty good parallel. I don't make fun of chess players for reading books on chess, memorizing openings, etc. even though I don't find chess theory particularly interesting myself. Nobody questions those people's ability to enjoy their chosen pastime. But try to get good at Street Fighter or something and suddenly they're a competitive asshole who hates fun. What gives? Was Mega Man 2 the one with the aquatic stage, that had the giant Robot frogs that barfed out baby robot frogs endlessly, that you would farm with your saw blade power until you maxed your power/health/life reserves? I see what you did there. It's still a terrible analogy.Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 16, 2008, 12:30:14 PM Quote Pachinko, Pachislots.. apparently even big name liscensed machines go for around a C note. You can get a Metal Slug Pachislot machine for about $500-$600. New Pachislots go for $800 from certain dealers, often with big name licenses. Well, big names in the arcade world. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: HaemishM on December 16, 2008, 12:36:08 PM Quote The reason the Wii is selling so hot is because it has new ideas. Can you point me to a single, SINGLE truly new idea, please? Just one. Just one new idea for the Wii. Please, by all means, do. Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 (and 2009 next year). Rather than controlling one individual on the pitch with the analog stick, you select a player and move him along a path with the pointer - and you can also move other players at the same time as the main player with the ball using the pointer. So you can control runs into the box, defensive assignments and team communication without having to rely on AI for everything but the player you are controlling, all in real time. It works astoundingly well on offense, though defensively, you are better served with analog movement. Oh you thought I was going to say sword swinging in Red Steel? Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 16, 2008, 12:57:21 PM No, I thought you wouldn't say they turned soccer into an RTS since the Wii doesn't have precise controls.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: HaemishM on December 16, 2008, 01:00:32 PM It's precise enough for the purpose. It was good enough that EA stole it for their 09 version of FIFA (which they then fucked up by making the analog stick controls REALLY SLOPPY). For a sports action game, adding in that bit of tactics and making it intuitively easy to use is most certainly new.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 16, 2008, 01:05:24 PM It's precise enough for the purpose. It was good enough that EA stole it for their 09 version of FIFA (which they then fucked up by making the analog stick controls REALLY SLOPPY). For a sports action game, adding in that bit of tactics and making it intuitively easy to use is most certainly new. It's a new implementation of an old, rehashed, but polished idea. It's not a new idea, it's just remapping controls from one genre onto another - which is basically the flavor du jour for developing for the Wii - just remap things that already work and exist while doing your port. Now, as elegant as it may be, it's not new - novel? Ok, I can accept novel. But new? Comeon Haem, you're better than that.Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Jain Zar on December 16, 2008, 01:17:52 PM No, this is the internet, it has nothing to do with the region and life situation, but given your assumptions about the home arcade market, it's fairly obvious I just read more. I wasn't insulting your lifestyle, I was insulting your assumptions about a market you don't nearly fully understand or understand even a little. Also, obvious troll is obvious. Nice try though. This whole thread keeps continuing because you don't understand the videogame market. I don't troll, and if I did I would do it someplace like RPGnet who is full of whiney uberliberal pussy ass bitches with shitty taste in PnP RPGs. Cuz the outrage over dumb shit would be waay funnier. While you may have a great many faults, you tend not to cry like a bitch or throw around your admin powers. Which I respect even if I wonder if we are even from the same fucking planet. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 16, 2008, 01:23:18 PM Jain, it's probably best if you take an angle that doesn't imply that you're somehow on the Everyman Planet and I'm off on Jupiter or something.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Valmorian on December 16, 2008, 01:24:04 PM Now, as elegant as it may be, it's not new - novel? Ok, I can accept novel. But new? Comeon Haem, you're better than that. Um, novel and new are synonyms. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 16, 2008, 01:25:39 PM Now, as elegant as it may be, it's not new - novel? Ok, I can accept novel. But new? Comeon Haem, you're better than that. Um, novel and new are synonyms. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Yegolev on December 16, 2008, 01:35:04 PM There's something new on the Wii. It's the huge uptake of a game console with a piece of ass for a controller. There are some games on the Wii that I like, but the Wiimote itself makes my brain baby kick. Boom Blox is awesome, but the accuracy of the pointer means I take five times longer to line up a shot than I should. My Life as a King is super cool, but I don't like the Wiimote flopping around in my lap like an extra dick tied to my Classic Controller. Metroid Prime 3 was worse with the Wiimote due to the lack of accuracy working in tandem with learning a new control scheme to cause a tumor to develop in each of my eyeballs.
Finally, De Blob. This is a decently fun game and my boy loves it. I decided not to BIIF this for two reasons. One is that most people here aren't going to turn on their Wii to play it. Two is that you waggle to jump, and this causes me to make so many fucking mistakes that it's ludicrous. A platform game where you waggle to jump is bad, especially when the waggling with my right hand causes me to mis-aim with my left and jump to the wrong place, fucking up a challenge. Luckily, the game is fairly easy so it's not a deal-breaker, but the control isn't fun despite the game being fun. Just allowing me to remap the controls would skyrocket this game to a "Buy it" once I set A to jump and B to compass. The retarded bit? Currently A does compass and B does nothing. :uhrr: Finally, my boy begged me to get World of Goo on the Wii. I did and I keep thinking how much more awesome it would be on the PC. The Wiimote pointer is balls. If I were a developer that loved my game, I would port it to Wii for the money but I would not develop it for the Wii for the children. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 16, 2008, 01:39:31 PM Quote I did and I keep thinking how much more awesome it would be on the PC. Then go buy it from 2D boy, it was released on PC the day before the Wii. Edit: And yes, it's very good on the PC. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: HaemishM on December 16, 2008, 02:41:17 PM It's precise enough for the purpose. It was good enough that EA stole it for their 09 version of FIFA (which they then fucked up by making the analog stick controls REALLY SLOPPY). For a sports action game, adding in that bit of tactics and making it intuitively easy to use is most certainly new. It's a new implementation of an old, rehashed, but polished idea. It's not a new idea, it's just remapping controls from one genre onto anotherNot really, but we'll go with that thought process. What is action RPG's but remapping fighting game controls onto an RPG structure? What is sports games like Madden but remapping the controls from platforming onto a single player on the field? By your criteria, there is nothing new under the sun. Which is probably true, but really, stop trying to find reasons to bag on the Wii. You don't like it, fair enough. But saying it's brought nothing new to the game is being pedantic. It's bordering on Comic Book Guy at this point. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 16, 2008, 02:43:53 PM It's precise enough for the purpose. It was good enough that EA stole it for their 09 version of FIFA (which they then fucked up by making the analog stick controls REALLY SLOPPY). For a sports action game, adding in that bit of tactics and making it intuitively easy to use is most certainly new. It's a new implementation of an old, rehashed, but polished idea. It's not a new idea, it's just remapping controls from one genre onto anotherNot really, but we'll go with that thought process. What is action RPG's but remapping fighting game controls onto an RPG structure? What is sports games like Madden but remapping the controls from platforming onto a single player on the field? By your criteria, there is nothing new under the sun. Which is probably true, but really, stop trying to find reasons to bag on the Wii. You don't like it, fair enough. But saying it's brought nothing new to the game is being pedantic. It's bordering on Comic Book Guy at this point. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Warskull on December 16, 2008, 02:44:22 PM Jain, it's probably best if you take an angle that doesn't imply that you're somehow on the Everyman Planet and I'm off on Jupiter or something. Jain is correct to a degree though. You don't like the Wii, you don't want to like the Wii, and to some degree you don't understand how anyone could like the Wii. You let this dislike of the Wii bleed over and you make Nintendo out to be a great evil and destroying gaming as we know it. Game wise the Wii is just like the Gamecube, primarily supported by Nintendo with a handful of good third-party titles, it just sold a hell of a lot more units than the Gamecube because the motion controls are interesting for a lot of people. Not much changed about Nintendo from the Gamecube to the Wii. They still attempt to maintain a family friendly image, they still put out titles with unusual appeal (Animal Crossing, Mario Paint), they just are now working a new market they discovered on top of what they did before. The players are still the same in this generation of consoles, they still do the same things they did before, the sales numbers are just different. Nintendo made a smart move when they saw a niche for a lower priced console, Sony overestimated loyalty when they priced their console so high and got it out the door last. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: UnSub on December 16, 2008, 04:50:22 PM (Ive heard CoH finally dropped the debt thing according to the hostess of a local LARP group but until the Mac client gets finished I won't know for sure.) CoH/V Mac client is now in open beta. There is still xp debt in-game, but the xp curve has been "smoothed out" and the title isn't as grindy as it once was. Now, to return you to your previously scheduled show "Old School Gamers Complain That Kids These Days Don't Know What Gaming Is, Dagnabit". Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: HaemishM on December 16, 2008, 05:07:24 PM Bringing Grandma to the table isn't new. It just shows how simple-minded Grandmas are when it comes to technology :oh_i_see: Yes, because the demographics for the PS1 skewed so heavily towards the Geritol set. Bringing Grandma to buy a $250 video game console FOR HERSELF is most certainly new. Getting Grandma to also buy another game beyond the pack-in game is seriously new. Getting a bunch of housewives to buy a video game console AND a $90 balance board IS new. It may not trip your trigger, but it is most certainly new in terms of the video game industry. Those demographics took forever to adapt to fucking email and that was mostly free once you got a computer. And it all comes down to the ease of interface with the console, which for all its flaws, is still more intuitive than a goddamn Dual Shock. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Yegolev on December 16, 2008, 05:25:10 PM Quote I did and I keep thinking how much more awesome it would be on the PC. Then go buy it from 2D boy, it was released on PC the day before the Wii. Edit: And yes, it's very good on the PC. Oh, I know it's on PC. I'll probably skip it, though, since that first level with the fucking frog make YEGO SMASH. Not much changed about Nintendo from the Gamecube to the Wii. They still attempt to maintain a family friendly image, they still put out titles with unusual appeal (Animal Crossing, Mario Paint), they just are now working a new market they discovered on top of what they did before. I'll have to disagree here. Nintendo is lazier and more arrogant than ever, which I didn't think was possible. The lack of decent games on the Wii, regardless of whether they are ruined by waggle or not, is terrible. No need to list them, we can all remember them as well as the suspicious cult ones like No More Heroes. Unlike Nintendo's previous consoles, there are less than ten good games and literally a thousand games equal to or worse than The Sims Castaway. I'm not bagging on Nintendo's business sense, I'm just complaining that my meager expectations are not being met in the Wii space. Best game I have played on my Wii so far? It's a toss-up between Super Mario World and Super Metroid. Yeah. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Sluggo140 on December 16, 2008, 06:26:54 PM So on that note does anyone have the release date for "GET OFF MY LAWN". I hear you play an old man waving a newspaper. I hear its gonna make colostomy bags burst all over the nursing home circuit with excitement. I also hear "Stirring The Biscuits" and "Mowing" are being released by Old Motherfucker games next year. Now I will confess that I do own a wii. The most I've played it has been within the last two months since I added homebrew. I did enjoy Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime Corruption but even on corruption the controller aimed like a rolling pin rather than something that resembled a futuristic weapon. The thing is gyroscopic is pretty cool stuff but when you have a bunch of mediocre games then what's the point. On one other point..let's start making these games a little more honest I mean jesus can't we show some scavies on those guys in carnival games..where are the cheap easy skanky girls that hang out by the goldfish toss?
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Yegolev on December 16, 2008, 07:20:08 PM Alright, that made me chuckle a bit.
The most I've played it has been within the last two months since I added homebrew. I guess the Wii is the Civic of consoles and you have been watching too much Fast and Furious. I'm envisioning a chartreuse Wii with silver trim and a large spoiler. Did you add some tribal striping down the side? Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on December 16, 2008, 07:45:39 PM Alright, that made me chuckle a bit. I put a spoiler on my 360 to keep it from taking off. Mostly though, for looks. It's made out of wood. Much like the heat sync on the 360.The most I've played it has been within the last two months since I added homebrew. I guess the Wii is the Civic of consoles and you have been watching too much Fast and Furious. I'm envisioning a chartreuse Wii with silver trim and a large spoiler. Did you add some tribal striping down the side? Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Yegolev on December 16, 2008, 08:00:23 PM Alright, that made me chuckle a bit. I put a spoiler on my 360 to keep it from taking off. Mostly though, for looks. It's made out of wood. Much like the heat sync on the 360.The most I've played it has been within the last two months since I added homebrew. I guess the Wii is the Civic of consoles and you have been watching too much Fast and Furious. I'm envisioning a chartreuse Wii with silver trim and a large spoiler. Did you add some tribal striping down the side? The 360 is more like a Chevy Nova. I might do some classic flames on that. The Wii gets ground effects and neon. I am thinking of replacing the back end with a kickass sound system. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Jain Zar on December 16, 2008, 10:27:14 PM (Ive heard CoH finally dropped the debt thing according to the hostess of a local LARP group but until the Mac client gets finished I won't know for sure.) CoH/V Mac client is now in open beta. There is still xp debt in-game, but the xp curve has been "smoothed out" and the title isn't as grindy as it once was. Now, to return you to your previously scheduled show "Old School Gamers Complain That Kids These Days Don't Know What Gaming Is, Dagnabit". Thanks to the god awful to navigate CoH forums I found the DL DMG. Which leads to a 2.7 gig DL. At circa 20k/sec. OH GOD. I had company over and we played the awesome Battlestar Galactica boardgame (made even more awesome via my use of Galactica Minimates and die cast ships! I randomly pulled Apollo as my character and I had his Minimate out on the board sitting on top of a Mk7 Viper. It was ^_^. Drunken Tigh roaming about the ship was good for a laugh too...) and during that gametime plus post game BSing (god I want Wings of War and the prepainted bi/triplanes SO FUCKING BAD) it DLed about 350 megs. From around 8pm-1am. PAAAAIN... And I wouldnt say I complain that kids these days know what gaming is. More I question their taste in games. But I question a lot of things. Its why I am so goddamned cheerful all the time. Too bad Zoloft makes me gain weight. It took some of the edge off plus fucked up dreams as a nice bonus. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Triforcer on December 16, 2008, 10:47:02 PM /nostalgia rant
Now that I'm a real working person, there is only one pure wasteful luxury I want. Not a fancy car, not a big TV, or anything like that. When I was a kid, all the weddings in the county were held at the Knights of Columbus building. They had this old Spy Hunter arcade machine for years and years- just a quarter a play. During those long boring weddings, me and the rest of the kids just fed quarters into that machine to see who could get as far as the boathouse (or even the SNOW!- god, I'll never forget getting to the snow the first time). Then one day it was gone, I've never seen the machine since. I want it desperately, but an original machine probably costs as much as a house down payment now. /rantoff Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Sluggo140 on December 17, 2008, 07:28:18 AM Alright, that made me chuckle a bit. The most I've played it has been within the last two months since I added homebrew. I guess the Wii is the Civic of consoles and you have been watching too much Fast and Furious. I'm envisioning a chartreuse Wii with silver trim and a large spoiler. Did you add some tribal striping down the side? Man my wii has NOS and 20s on it. Actually its bright neon green with a red tinfoil dragon on the hood....its bad ass just because I can play bionic commando on it now. Oh I just heard that there's been another new game added to the lineup from Old Motherfucker games. Its specifically for the wii fit board, "HELP, I've fallen and I can't get up" The thing that nintendo may have not realized is that what they have created is the equivalent of a gateway drug. Its only a matter of time before the Soccer Moms decide to take out their suburban angst of Halo 3 and CoD type games. The gaming experience on the wii is limited with the crap assortment of games they've put out lately. Before long the next thing you know she's progressed past the xbox 360 and has joined a WoW guild..then her descent into gaming madness is complete. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Yegolev on December 17, 2008, 07:57:58 AM You are somewhat correct about the gateway, but girls are always girls. My wife grew up watching/helping her brother play Breath of Fire and other things or the era, but today she's not into the games that the Halotards are into. She likes Saint's Row and GTA but not Fallout 3 (mostly due to Bloody Mess :awesome_for_real:). She would still be playing The Sims 2 if she could get it to run anymore, and has done such silly things as Lost in Blue 1/2, The Sims Castaway, MySims, and she even has MySims Kingdom under the tree. Sure, she calls me a fag for playing Hello Kitty Online and laughs at me for wanting the new Animal Crossing, but she's still a girl that likes to dress up people in a house she designed.
The Wii can be a gateway but it's not going to lead to Call of Duty for everyone. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Sluggo140 on December 17, 2008, 10:35:31 AM You are somewhat correct about the gateway, but girls are always girls. My wife grew up watching/helping her brother play Breath of Fire and other things or the era, but today she's not into the games that the Halotards are into. She likes Saint's Row and GTA but not Fallout 3 (mostly due to Bloody Mess :awesome_for_real:). She would still be playing The Sims 2 if she could get it to run anymore, and has done such silly things as Lost in Blue 1/2, The Sims Castaway, MySims, and she even has MySims Kingdom under the tree. Sure, she calls me a fag for playing Hello Kitty Online and laughs at me for wanting the new Animal Crossing, but she's still a girl that likes to dress up people in a house she designed. The Wii can be a gateway but it's not going to lead to Call of Duty for everyone. She calls you a fag for playing Hello Kitty. Mine just gets pissed off when she can't earn the pogo badges she wants. She was all hardcore on animal crossing though. I heard the new one isn't that great. The sim games are her favs though, especially the whole harvest moon series. I will say that Mario Party 8 on wii was pretty cool..that was the first game we bought so that we could all play together. HUGE Plus though is that she still supports my gaming habit and doesn't mind getting me the latest toys, as long as its not diablo II (gwar wrote a song about my experiences with diablo 2 it was called "The Years Without Light") Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: mutantmagnet on December 17, 2008, 10:38:21 AM Its only a matter of time before the Soccer Moms decide to take out their suburban angst of Halo 3 and CoD type games. The gaming experience on the wii is limited with the crap assortment of games they've put out lately. Before long the next thing you know she's progressed past the xbox 360 and has joined a WoW guild..then her descent into gaming madness is complete. Yes that's what we need more of. Mothers online telling their pk goofball of son to stop trash talking and get back to their studies.... Wait a minute! That's exactly what MMOs need to curb some of the silliness. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Sluggo140 on December 18, 2008, 06:25:04 AM Its only a matter of time before the Soccer Moms decide to take out their suburban angst of Halo 3 and CoD type games. The gaming experience on the wii is limited with the crap assortment of games they've put out lately. Before long the next thing you know she's progressed past the xbox 360 and has joined a WoW guild..then her descent into gaming madness is complete. Yes that's what we need more of. Mothers online telling their pk goofball of son to stop trash talking and get back to their studies.... Wait a minute! That's exactly what MMOs need to curb some of the silliness. Either that or create their own guild of PKing moms Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Cyrrex on December 18, 2008, 08:05:10 AM An install base of 200M means jack shit if the attach rate for anything that's not a ninty title is god awful. You're not seeing that AAA stuff because it's not worth the dev time. The attach rate on the Wii has been equal to or marginally higher than the PS3's. Try again. You're not seeing AAA stuff becuase the dev's think they are too "good" for making games on the system, or they just aren't smart enough to figure out how to use waggle for anything but gimmicks and remapping traditional controls. They are also, obviously, very risk averse these days. It's just easier to make Madden 2042 and make a crappy port of it for the Wii...so their entire library is littered with a bunch of absolute garbage that anyone in there right mind would rather be playing the 360 or PS3 version. Who does that leave to develop awesome games for the Wii? Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Big Gulp on December 18, 2008, 08:12:55 AM They are also, obviously, very risk averse these days. It's just easier to make Madden 2042 and make a crappy port of it for the Wii...so their entire library is littered with a bunch of absolute garbage that anyone in there right mind would rather be playing the 360 or PS3 version. Who does that leave to develop awesome games for the Wii? I think one of the Wii's problems with 3rd party developers is that the only one who has really done well on the platform is Guitar Hero World Tour, and let's be honest, Guitar Hero is a pet rock. It's it's own little thing, and it being successful isn't indicative of other third party games being successful. If I were Epic would I be in any hurry to produce a Wii version of something like Gears of War? Not really, because A) you'll have to water down the graphics dramatically, and B) it's doubtful that the game would be a success. Porting most of these PS3/360 games isn't porting, it's more like building a brand new product. When the attach rate on the non-Nintendo games is shitty to begin with it's hard to justify that kind of expense. Honestly, when I was playing Soul Calibur on my Dreamcast 10 years ago I would never have thought that the most popular console a decade later would be something that was graphically inferior to what I currently had. It's mind boggling. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Cyrrex on December 18, 2008, 08:28:05 AM I meant "porting" in the loosest sense of the word. The reality is, as you suggest, that the game is different...and more importantly, inferior in every way (because you know the motion controlled shit will just get tacked on as an afterthought). Not only would there be much less of a market for Gears of War on the Wii in general, but anybody who is likely to want to play it is going to want one of the superior versions on the more powerful systems. And it ain't just graphics.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Jain Zar on December 18, 2008, 11:55:15 AM Honestly, when I was playing Soul Calibur on my Dreamcast 10 years ago I would never have thought that the most popular console a decade later would be something that was graphically inferior to what I currently had. It's mind boggling. The Wii isn't inferior to the Dreamcast. Its roughly 4 times as powerful as the Gamecube which is roughly twice as powerful as the Dreamcast. Unless you think the Dreamcast could do Resident Evil 4, Remake of 1, and Zero to that level. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Big Gulp on December 18, 2008, 11:57:02 AM Its roughly 4 times as powerful as the Gamecube which is roughly twice as powerful as the Dreamcast. Keep telling yourself that. :why_so_serious: Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Sluggo140 on December 19, 2008, 05:35:47 AM Its roughly 4 times as powerful as the Gamecube which is roughly twice as powerful as the Dreamcast. Keep telling yourself that. :why_so_serious: Wow no wonder it is completely awesome with virtual console games. Hey look I created you a new expensive console to play the old games that you once paid money for but I'm gonna sell em to you again. My childhood as been violated...thank god for the homebrew channel. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Tale on March 25, 2009, 11:36:55 AM Wii is now the fastest selling console of all time: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7964459.stm (and there's an actual BBC spelling error - Nintento!)
I moved house six months ago and my Wii has sat next to my new TV for the entire time, and I've never actually bothered switching it on. My sister and her husband have started using theirs again though - as an internet-on-TV box to watch YouTube videos. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Fabricated on March 25, 2009, 04:32:33 PM I just don't get it. Nothing worth a shit has been released for it for nearly a year now.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on March 25, 2009, 05:59:31 PM I just don't get it. Nothing worth a shit has been released for it for nearly a year now. What's not to get? It just confirms everything I've ever said about the mass market.Tasteless, bland, and prone to fad. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Hawkbit on March 25, 2009, 07:47:58 PM I learned my lesson, that's for sure.
I was hoping for another wind waker though... but all I got was twilight princess. I really wish I could take the thing into Gamehump but the wife wouldn't go for it. I want a PS3, dammit! Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Triforcer on March 25, 2009, 08:16:54 PM I learned my lesson, that's for sure. ]I was hoping for another wind waker though... but all I got was twilight princess. I really wish I could take the thing into Gamehump but the wife wouldn't go for it. I want a PS3, dammit! Wind Waker has aged better than Twilight Princess for me. I've beaten it at least five times, and even though I'm a Zelda fanatic I couldn't even bring myself to finish Twilight Princess. I'm glad they are taking so long with this one, because the magic was starting to fade. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Tale on March 25, 2009, 08:53:30 PM I just don't get it. Nothing worth a shit has been released for it for nearly a year now. What's not to get? It just confirms everything I've ever said about the mass market.Tasteless, bland, and prone to fad. Which is also why the commercial mass media broadcasts tasteless, bland, faddish news and entertainment :( Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Hawkbit on March 26, 2009, 04:11:01 AM I learned my lesson, that's for sure. ]I was hoping for another wind waker though... but all I got was twilight princess. I really wish I could take the thing into Gamehump but the wife wouldn't go for it. I want a PS3, dammit! Wind Waker has aged better than Twilight Princess for me. I've beaten it at least five times, and even though I'm a Zelda fanatic I couldn't even bring myself to finish Twilight Princess. I'm glad they are taking so long with this one, because the magic was starting to fade. I agree entirely. A new Zelda is the main reason I don't push my wife into selling the damn thing. Like you, I played wind waker two or three times. I made it to the rock people in TP and quit. Each time I try to play it again, I get bored and quit. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Demonix on March 26, 2009, 10:33:48 AM Having owned a wii for two years now, I'd like to weigh in on this thread that has briefly woken from its coma.
One of the problems i've seen in games that have come out for the wii is the god awful controls that are OBVIOUSLY designed with a more conventional controller in mind. Since I don't buy ports, these are games that were developed for the wii. Lets take resident evil Umbrella chronicles. Here is a light gun game that has mapped its pickup/grenade to button A (top of wiimote) and its weapon switch button to button C on the nunchuck. Keep in mind that your controller is locked into a plastic rifle frame and that some items only appear on screen for a second while you are trying to fend off 3 zombies at once; this control scheme simply DOES NOT WORK and can lead to thrown controllers. Another one, Dragon Quest Swords, has you run by pressing B and the up directional...a completely non-intuitive hand position for one hand. This is a game in which time can be a factor... Adding hand shake to DDR is a mistake too... Anyway, other than that I mostly enjoy my wii for the occasional bout of light gun action as well as harvest moon type games. I would love to see a decent RPG come out for it but for the most part you guys are right...we're seeing shovelware because no one predicted the wii would get such a market, no one knew the market even existed, and we are in a worldwide economic downturn. PS: add me to the Windwaker > Twilight Princess crowd. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on March 26, 2009, 10:34:43 AM Quote Having owned a wii for two years now Most of us have. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: HaemishM on March 26, 2009, 11:03:33 AM There have been good games done for the console, and some decently innovative approaches, but there has been no ZOMG GREATEST THING EVAR! for the system. The waggle has been almost universally wasted - No More Heroes boss fights were some of the most recent good examples of the right way to use it. I even like Wii Music, though it's really more of a toy than a "game." I want to try out Mad World, but for me, the games that the system should have done well with (sports games, sword-fighting, and FPS) have been either shitty (sports games with the exception of MLB 2k8), shitty (sword-fighting except for No More Heroes) and shitty (FPS games with a few exceptions there haven't been enough, and half of what's been there has sucked it).
The hardware itself was fine. The attitude and output of the majority of the developers has been a fucking travesty. We all knew the mass market liked bland, uninspired shit, I just didn't expect the developers to produce as much bland, uninspired shit as they've done. It's like the dev companies put their MMOG teams on Wii development. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Rasix on March 26, 2009, 11:15:48 AM Mad World is OK. I personally think No More Heroes is a lot better, even if Mad World got rid of a lot of the annoying bits of NMH (and in some places replaced it with other annoying bits). It's mostly enjoyable, but probably better as a bargain bin purchase or renter.
Only games I've really gotten enamored with are No More Heroes and My Life as King. The big use of the system is entertaining my nephews on the rare occasion they visit. It hasn't caught on with my wife at all, so there are still some non-gamer boundaries that it's not crossing. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on March 26, 2009, 11:19:33 AM My Life as a King has a new version coming out. Sort of.
My Life as a Dark Lord. Not kidding. It's the reverse, sort of. And you know something, it'll be the second game on the Wii worth owning. :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Rasix on March 26, 2009, 11:23:36 AM I'll be all over that. My Life as King was the ultimate one more turn game for me.
You didn't like No More Heroes? Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on March 26, 2009, 12:13:48 PM I did, but it's not even remotely a killer app. It's just a decent action game. I preferred Killer 7.
If Travis' monologues had been through more of the game, or at the very least for every major boss fight, I think I would've liked it more. Basically, needed a lot more Travis. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Yegolev on March 26, 2009, 01:12:00 PM The bike killed it for me. The rest was good... mostly.
I think we are moving away from forced waggle. This might help devs put something decent on it, however the trend has been set and whatnot. Also the games look like ass. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Velorath on March 29, 2009, 02:16:13 AM My Life as a King has a new version coming out. Sort of. My Life as a Dark Lord. Not kidding. It's the reverse, sort of. And you know something, it'll be the second game on the Wii worth owning. :awesome_for_real: If I had a Wii, I'd be looking forward to the Punch Out remake myself. Sounds like it had a pretty good showing at GDC, and it's remaking one of the greatest games of all time. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Malakili on March 29, 2009, 12:19:34 PM As far as I'm concerned, consoles are for goofy games and sports games only. Anything else worth playing is on the PC. Wii is a good console for shenanigans, playing games with my girlfriend, and when we have guests over. The fact that most Wii games suck is immaterial, most games for every platform suck, and that is nothing new.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Cyrrex on April 08, 2009, 10:30:45 AM Apologies, if this has been mentioned somewhere already, but any of you heard or have more info about the new motion sensing addon they are getting close to releasing? I saw a silly little article describing how it's "too good" in terms of it's accuracy/fidelity, and that they have had to scale it back. Fuck me, but it's almost enough to make me frothy for my Wii again.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Hawkbit on April 08, 2009, 11:37:02 AM Won't matter.
1. New tech won't function with old games. 2. There's no new decent games on the horizon for Wii. So you're buying this addon for each of your controllers that's going to cost $25.00 each. And you're going to have the Wii sports 2 game for $50.00. $100.00 to make shit work like it was supposed to from the start. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Amarr HM on April 08, 2009, 12:17:34 PM One of the other problems with the motion add-on for me is it eliminates the nunchuk.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on April 08, 2009, 12:25:21 PM One of the other problems with the motion add-on for me is it eliminates the nunchuk. What? Seriously? haha. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: HaemishM on April 08, 2009, 01:02:19 PM Apologies, if this has been mentioned somewhere already, but any of you heard or have more info about the new motion sensing addon they are getting close to releasing? I saw a silly little article describing how it's "too good" in terms of it's accuracy/fidelity, and that they have had to scale it back. Fuck me, but it's almost enough to make me frothy for my Wii again. It won't matter, because cockmunching devs are too arrogant to actually design any great, innovative games to go with it. EDIT: Does it really kill the chuk? Because if so, that's so super-retarded to the extreme, I can't even begin to imagine what cuntlap thought that shit up. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Amarr HM on April 08, 2009, 01:44:20 PM One of the other problems with the motion add-on for me is it eliminates the nunchuk. What? Seriously? haha. To be honest I'm not 100% sure it doesn't look like it has a throughput, anyone know about this? EDIT: I looked it up when it was announced at Christmas time and it didn't seem to have throughput back then, but Nintendo obviously saw the flaw cause... "The Wii MotionPlus features a pass-through expansion port, allowing other expansions such as the Nunchuk or Classic Controller to be used simultaneously with the device. The attachment has a color-coded mechanical slide switch for locking the clip release. When attached to the Wii Remote, the unit extends the length of the controller body by approximately 1½ inches (4 cm). Each Wii MotionPlus will be packaged with a longer version of the Wii Remote Jacket to accommodate the added length." "Games currently planned to feature Wii MotionPlus functionality are: Red Steel 2, EA Sports Grand Slam Tennis, and Tiger Woods PGA Tour 10." Sounds interesting.. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: HaemishM on April 08, 2009, 02:00:31 PM "Games currently planned to feature Wii MotionPlus functionality are: Red Steel 2..." GOD-DAMNIT. They are going to make me want this fucking thing again. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Rasix on April 08, 2009, 02:02:27 PM I don't think you've heard this lately: Red Steel sucked.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on April 08, 2009, 02:16:29 PM He knows, but whatcha gonna do? The Wii doesn't play PS3/360 games.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: HaemishM on April 08, 2009, 02:45:04 PM We've had this conversation before. I loved Red Steel despite all its flaws. I may be the game's only fanbois.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Azazel on April 10, 2009, 08:37:24 AM I saw a silly little article describing how it's "too good" in terms of it's accuracy/fidelity, and that they have had to scale it back. Fuck me, but it's almost enough to make me frothy for my Wii again. Sounds like marketing bollocks to me. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: UnSub on April 10, 2009, 08:54:21 AM We've had this conversation before. I loved Red Steel despite all its flaws. I may be the game's only fanbois. My time with Red Steel was fun enough, if only marred by making me feel like my character was permanently drunk. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Cyrrex on April 10, 2009, 02:13:54 PM I saw a silly little article describing how it's "too good" in terms of it's accuracy/fidelity, and that they have had to scale it back. Fuck me, but it's almost enough to make me frothy for my Wii again. Sounds like marketing bollocks to me. Yes! But what if it isn't! What if it's true and now they are actually going to start making games that don't suck and are instead awesome! Maybe I'll yet get my lightsaber game! Or something. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: HaemishM on April 11, 2009, 12:46:37 PM "They" could make games that don't suck with the current hardware. Most developers just don't give a shit though.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on April 11, 2009, 02:44:58 PM "They" could make games that don't suck with the current hardware. Most developers just don't give a shit though. They could, but the PS2 has already done that. They're trying to be original. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Margalis on April 11, 2009, 03:10:47 PM How did anyone ever think that WMP killed the Nunchuck? The WaveRace portion of of the E3 demo showed Reggie using it along with WMP.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: HaemishM on April 11, 2009, 06:14:51 PM "They" could make games that don't suck with the current hardware. Most developers just don't give a shit though. They could, but the PS2 has already done that. They're trying to be original. I've played many of the shitty Wii games. Original is most definitely NOT what they were trying. More like "how can we shoehorn our PS2 game into this control scheme with the least amount of effort possible?" Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on April 11, 2009, 06:34:47 PM "They" could make games that don't suck with the current hardware. Most developers just don't give a shit though. They could, but the PS2 has already done that. They're trying to be original.Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: HaemishM on April 12, 2009, 12:26:18 PM Yeah, that.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on April 15, 2009, 07:16:19 PM http://wii.ign.com/articles/972/972642p1.html
Quote GDC 09: Some WiiWare Devs Not Being Paid? Before a dev gets a paycheck, its game needs to sell a certain amount. by Daemon Hatfield April 14, 2009 - At this year's Game Developers Conference a talk called Independent Game Sales revealed that Nintendo has a minimum download threshold for WiiWare games that must be met before the developer is paid. The speaker, Gamasutra publisher and Independent Game Festival chairman Simon Carless, said this number is somewhere in the mid-quadruple digits for America and low quadruples for other territories. Unless a game passes over this number of downloads, the developer doesn't get paid at all. Sources in the WiiWare development community have confirmed this information to IGN. Carless estimated that multiple independent WiiWare games will not pass the threshold and not return any of the developer's investment. He also guessed that this threshold is in place to deter developers from tossing loads of shovelware onto the service. One developer, speaking anonymously, recently told IGN that this deterrent makes the threshold a good thing. There have been two primary barriers for little-known games on WiiWare. Until recently, storage has been an issue on the Wii. This is now fixed as of last month, but another hurdle remains: WiiWare games don't offer any sort of trial, so gamers can't check them out first to see if they like them as they can on Xbox Live Arcade. As of this writing, Nintendo could not be reached for comment. The company has not released any official information about the sales of WiiWare games. Carless has heard that Nintendo might be changing this minimum threshold policy so that developers can eventually cash a paycheck from WiiWare. Also the official console of screwing indie devs. How many Wiis have they sold? Honestly, they could use any good game they get. I'm surprised they're even taking a cut considering how shit their online service is to begin with (and total lack of marketing for WiiWare - compared to Sony and MS). Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Hawkbit on April 15, 2009, 07:33:25 PM I'm starting to feel dirty even owning a Wii at this point. Always knew Nintendo was gimmicky and greedy, but they're taking it to new levels.
Damn you, economy. If you were better I could afford a PS3 and could sell my Wii for PS3 games. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: ffc on April 15, 2009, 09:19:32 PM The Wii is best described as an expensive board game (http://kotaku.com/5079135/sega-wii-is-the-most-expensive-board-game-on-earth). As it is, I use my Wii remote on my PC far more than on my Wii.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on April 15, 2009, 09:21:03 PM The Wii is best described as an expensive board game (http://kotaku.com/5079135/sega-wii-is-the-most-expensive-board-game-on-earth). As it is, I use my Wii remote on my PC far more than on my Wii. :( I called them fighting with the board game market so long before Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Tale on April 15, 2009, 09:40:08 PM I use my Wii Fit to weigh myself (which I'm doing because I've changed shape due to months of commuting by bicycle).
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Tmon on April 16, 2009, 06:36:58 AM Still using it mostly for WII Fit. I bought RE4 for it at the local Circuit City during the bankruptcy sale. It's pretty much a $10 coaster, I suck at FPS to begin with but the controls for the wii are just completely F'd up. Got my wife Endless ocean for her birthday, she likes it but rarely loads it because she'd rather play find the object games on her laptop or do crosswords. Expensive board game pretty well sums it up I think.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Demonix on April 16, 2009, 07:37:44 AM Still using it mostly for WII Fit. I bought RE4 for it at the local Circuit City during the bankruptcy sale. It's pretty much a $10 coaster, I suck at FPS to begin with but the controls for the wii are just completely F'd up. Got my wife Endless ocean for her birthday, she likes it but rarely loads it because she'd rather play find the object games on her laptop or do crosswords. Expensive board game pretty well sums it up I think. You guys make me feel so dirty for liking my wii! -goes back to rune factory frontier- PS: RE4 for the wii was an incredible improvement over the gamecube version, just because aiming was more natural. Still, different strokes and all that. Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Azazel on April 23, 2009, 02:02:49 AM Quote GDC 09: Some WiiWare Devs Not Being Paid? He also guessed that this threshold is in place to deter developers from tossing loads of shovelware onto the service. Wait, what? Shovelware on the Wii? Guess it's only ok if it's on a DVD then? Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Yegolev on April 23, 2009, 06:28:22 AM Sure, Nintendo doesn't pay for bandwidth with DVD media. The notion that they want to deter shovelware is both ludicrous and insulting.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Musashi on April 23, 2009, 08:07:37 AM These threads wherein we lament the rightful place of Sony totally assfucked by the Wavebird and fat housewives never get old.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Yegolev on April 23, 2009, 10:20:33 AM :gamecube:
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: voodoolily on April 23, 2009, 10:57:31 AM You guys make me feel so dirty for liking my wii! -goes back to rune factory frontier- PS: RE4 for the wii was an incredible improvement over the gamecube version, just because aiming was more natural. Still, different strokes and all that. Why aren't you playing in the Rune Factory Frontier sandbox (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=16474.0) with the rest of us perverts? Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: schild on April 29, 2009, 01:13:09 PM The best reason for the Wii to exist. Not a game, just the theme.
http://dl-client.getdropbox.com/u/39720/sound/mp3/Punch_Out_Reorchestrated.mp3 BOO YA. Edit: Clipped to a ringtone: http://dl-client.getdropbox.com/u/39720/sound/ringtones/PunchOut.mp3 Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Arinon on April 29, 2009, 02:47:41 PM I watched a couple of the Gametrailers clips several times due to them having snippets of that theme in them.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: stray on April 29, 2009, 03:40:22 PM that makes me want to drop the guitar and pick up a horn
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Margalis on April 29, 2009, 10:59:10 PM Ha that's awesome. I think pretty much any game would be fun set to that music.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: voodoolily on May 01, 2009, 07:53:03 AM It sounds like Eye of the Tiger played by Chicago.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: Cyrrex on May 11, 2009, 10:06:23 AM Bought my wife a Wii Fit for her birthday (she wanted one). So we've sorta dusted off the Wii a bit. The kids love watching me play Twilight Princess, which I never quite finished. The potential for fun with this thing is huge...I just wish they get their arses into the 21st century like the rest of us. Oh, and make more games that don't suck.
Title: Re: Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2 Post by: voodoolily on May 11, 2009, 11:14:14 AM Get Rune Factory Frontier. Good fun for the whole family (though a bit tough for kids under 10).
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