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Title: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Hutch on September 24, 2008, 08:22:35 AM Blue Post (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10043252440&sid=1)
Oh snap. No hoarding of honor and BG tokens into the new expansion. Spend em while you've got em :ye_gods: Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Merusk on September 24, 2008, 08:31:36 AM Crap. Guess I'd better get to aquiring the last 20 or so I need for some of the pvp mounts.
Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Ratman_tf on September 24, 2008, 10:27:20 AM Makes sense, I guess. I mean, I'm not horribly thrilled with the geargrind for PvP in the first place, but that's the nature of the WoW beast and so I live with it.
I've been PvPing with my non-raiding alt (I can't stand PvP with a Palladin, so I have my Hunter to shoot arrows at bitches) but am nowhere near as well geared as people who've been PvPing forever. It'll be nice to start fresh with WOTLK. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: K9 on September 24, 2008, 05:48:21 PM I could deal with them wiping the honour, but wiping the marks is just an arse.
I think I'm probably 10 or so WSGs and EoTSs away from a couple of PvP mounts, so I guess that's what I'll go for. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Fordel on September 24, 2008, 07:50:16 PM At first I was "OUTRAGED" rabble rabble rabble! :mob:
Then I actually looked at my characters, and realized I had already burned out my stockpiles of marks and honor upgrading stuff recently. So I lose almost nothing. Oh noes, not my AV marks, how will I ever get 5000 more of those. Plus, it gives me an excuse to abuse Typhoon some more in AV. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Hutch on September 25, 2008, 05:19:27 AM At first I was "OUTRAGED" rabble rabble rabble! :mob: Then I actually looked at my characters, and realized I had already burned out my stockpiles of marks and honor upgrading stuff recently. So I lose almost nothing. Oh noes, not my AV marks, how will I ever get 5000 more of those. Plus, it gives me an excuse to abuse Typhoon some more in AV. Yeah. I'm not too concerned about replacing my giant stack of AV tokens either. I'm more oriented on how much time I'll have to spend in WSG to get the raptor mount :p Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Paelos on September 25, 2008, 07:50:15 AM Can we just scrap the old BGs and start over? I'm tired of all of them.
Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: K9 on September 25, 2008, 03:08:22 PM Can we just scrap the old BGs and start over? I'm tired of all of them. Word I'd happily keep the same framework (1 CTF, 1 Assault, 1 Control Point, 1 dumb hybrid) of map styles but with a different map template for each level range. That would please me. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Ingmar on September 25, 2008, 03:27:01 PM Eh, put a time limit on WSG and it is suddenly a whole new game (and probably a lot more fun.)
Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Paelos on September 25, 2008, 09:57:40 PM Eh, put a time limit on WSG and it is suddenly a whole new game (and probably a lot more fun.) You mean like WAR? :ye_gods: Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Zetor on September 25, 2008, 10:57:40 PM Putting arena rating [and arena point] requirements on every single epic piece of pvp gear is one of the stupidest decisions Blizz had made lately, kudos!
-- Z. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: SurfD on September 26, 2008, 12:16:19 AM Putting arena rating [and arena point] requirements on every single epic piece of pvp gear is one of the stupidest decisions Blizz had made lately, kudos! -- Z. actually, i think you can get Arena Points for participating in Lake Wintergrasp PvP if i remember correctly. I still think the top tier PvP gear should definately have a rating requirement. Especially since some arena gear for some specs is MUCH easier to get then PvE gear, and in many cases outright better for PvE then the comparative PvE pieces before the top end raids. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Zetor on September 26, 2008, 01:25:27 AM Putting arena rating requirements to solve the problem of arena gear being used in pve is sort of like getting rid of an annoying rat by dropping a tactical nuke on the rat hole.
If the problem is pvp gear being used in pve, then make pvp gear usable for pvp only (ie. within BGs, arenas, wintergrasp), and allow everyone to get a full set right off the bat. Then, if some people get uber leet arena ratings, let them use the pvp gear outside those zones as well (these people will be *rare*). Putting ratings on everything might solve the problem of joe bob in season2 outdamaging people in kara gear (that's as far as it goes, probably, and even that is a stretch for many classes), but it completely kills any sense of fair and meaningful competition in arena/BGs. Yeah, have fun in your blues getting 3-shot by people in full season 6 without even the illusion of a fighting chance! To use another analogy, a chess newbie probably has no way to beat a grandmaster. In WOTLK pvp, the grandmaster would also have two of their pawns replaced by queens, and their rooks wouldl gain the ability to capture two adjacent figures at once... -- Z. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Fordel on September 26, 2008, 02:04:55 AM The ratings aren't for PvE balance, not in terms of mechanics. They are for PvE 'balance' in terms of rarity and e-peen.
That is their only reason for existing. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Xeyi on September 26, 2008, 10:30:55 AM Putting arena rating [and arena point] requirements on every single epic piece of pvp gear is one of the stupidest decisions Blizz had made lately, kudos! I didn't realise they were doing this. After checking it seems even the blue pvp gear will need arena points as well. As someone who enjoys the occasional BG, but can't stand arena I'm inclined to agree with the stupid decision statement. From what I hear the arena points from Lake Wintergrasp are only for the beta and will be removed on live. This hasn't been confirmed as far as I'm aware however. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Ratman_tf on September 26, 2008, 11:58:27 AM I didn't realise they were doing this. After checking it seems even the blue pvp gear will need arena points as well. Huh. Well. That will be the end of my PvP in WoW then. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: K9 on September 26, 2008, 12:07:02 PM Code: Item prices Bear in mind that you get something like 300 Arena Points for a Wintergrasp Win and a smaller amount for a loss, Arena points won't be wholly unobtainable. Although it does seem teh stupids. Rating is the main limiting factor, although I still think Blizz is clutching at straws here. Ther third way is the Witergrasp Instance boss who drops PvP Glove, Chest and Legging tokens apparently. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Ratman_tf on September 26, 2008, 01:09:56 PM [Bear in mind that you get something like 300 Arena Points for a Wintergrasp Win and a smaller amount for a loss, Arena points won't be wholly unobtainable. Although it does seem teh stupids. Yeah, but if they pull arena rewards form Wintergrasp, then those of us who don't care for Arenas will be unable to gear up for Battlegrounds. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Merusk on September 26, 2008, 02:15:52 PM I didn't realise they were doing this. After checking it seems even the blue pvp gear will need arena points as well. Huh. Well. That will be the end of my PvP in WoW then. No dobut. Way to push folks to WAR, dumbasses. :why_so_serious: Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Soln on September 26, 2008, 03:20:59 PM Um not to ask the obvious, but what about those classes which are disadvantage at Arenas, like mages (me)?
I know we get some AP for just showing up, but seriously. Doesn't Blizz accept there are some classes based on well known stats that are basically uncompetitive in Arenas? I ask this because Blizz seems to correct bad decisions over time I thought. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Zetor on September 26, 2008, 03:25:44 PM Arenas are a joke of an "e-sport" (they have many flaws, severe class balance issues only one of them). Instead of relegating it to mini-game status (which is what it deserves), Blizz keeps pushing it as the "one true sort of pvp". Yeah, mercenary cage-fights should definitely be the center of pvp conflict, not, I dunno, the horde fighting the alliance... that'd make too much sense.
-- Z. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: K9 on September 26, 2008, 04:32:31 PM Yeah, arenas suck balls.
Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Ratman_tf on September 26, 2008, 04:33:02 PM I ask this because Blizz seems to correct bad decisions over time I thought. Hopefully they will reconsider. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Fordel on September 26, 2008, 06:47:45 PM The Arena's are some Dev's personal baby. It'll be awhile before they are killed and proper focus is returned.
I'm assuming as the seasons go by, the current gear will be 'down ranked' to be replaced by the new stuff, and ratings will be removed slowly. Still, :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Azaroth on September 27, 2008, 08:02:17 PM Let's face it. Ever since Blizzard started trying to fuck around with PvP, it's been a mess. Mainly because their design meeting consists mainly of a bunch of guys sitting around going "Okay. How can we make this a RIDICULOUS FUCKING GRIND THAT EVERYONE WILL HATE?".
Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Phred on September 27, 2008, 09:39:25 PM The Arena's are some Dev's personal baby. It'll be awhile before they are killed and proper focus is returned. I'm assuming as the seasons go by, the current gear will be 'down ranked' to be replaced by the new stuff, and ratings will be removed slowly. Still, :awesome_for_real: That assumes that they decide it's a mistake. Note they've been steadily increasing the amount of gear that requires arena points so there is no real sign they think it's a bad idea in the slightest. Going by their continued pricing it would actually appear that they are quite happy with the affect currently. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Azaroth on September 27, 2008, 09:42:35 PM How about separate E-Sport servers.
Honestly, Blizzard has made some of the most illogical and downright retarded design decisions with PvP that I've ever seen. Which does piss me off, because it ruins a game for me that I actually enjoy. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: apocrypha on September 28, 2008, 02:42:01 AM I didn't realise they were doing this. After checking it seems even the blue pvp gear will need arena points as well. Huh. Well. That will be the end of my PvP in WoW then. Same here. I occasionally enjoy a bit of pvp and I've liked the fact that with my one char who pvp's I've been able to build up enough honor over 2+ years to now have him in some semi-decent pvp gear. I've always hated the requirement for Marks for pvp gear because I can't stand AB or WSG and if they add Arena Points to the reqs then there's no point me pvp'ing at all any more - being *totally* out-geared quickly makes the fun go away! Means I'm gonna have to try raiding again or else my endgame will be.. er... a different game :D Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Xanthippe on September 29, 2008, 02:18:28 PM I hate arenas, but never minded them being in because I figure it's a great way for people to duel in groups. Some people enjoy that. When they went in, they seemed like a fun pastime for some people (not me).
Then when they made it so gear could be gotten that way, more people participated. I don't think they all enjoyed it but they did it (I still didn't, because I hate it). Now they're completely fucking up battlegrounds for those of us who hate arena. Thanks, Blizzard. p.s. Why do people who are great at arena pvp get the best gear while those of us who are not great have worse gear? That makes absolutely no sense in a game where gear means so much. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Merusk on September 29, 2008, 02:44:05 PM Same answer as the reason people really good at PvE get the best stuff. "Because nobody would do it if we didn't offer greater rewards!"
I holy by the same answer for PvP as I do for PvE. That's bullshit; the real reason you do it is retention. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: cevik on September 29, 2008, 08:34:56 PM Same answer as the reason people really good at PvE get the best stuff. "Because nobody would do it if we didn't offer greater rewards!" I holy by the same answer for PvP as I do for PvE. That's bullshit; the real reason you do it is retention. I don't see the difference between: "Because nobody would do it if we didn't offer greater rewards!" and retention? Maybe I'm missing something? Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Fordel on September 29, 2008, 08:45:47 PM How about separate E-Sport servers. They have those! They are finishing up the finals or something soon. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Azaroth on September 30, 2008, 04:09:32 PM ".. So you could get that shit off of the regular servers".
Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Fordel on September 30, 2008, 05:25:34 PM http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/10532279664-wrath-of-the-lich-king-honor-update.html
No Wipe. :grin: Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Ralence on September 30, 2008, 05:55:50 PM Pretty sure that's a "bad thing". They're just going to adjust the costs for level 80 items to account for the fact that some people have 75k honor banked, unlike myself who just finished levelling my rogue to 70 a week ago. Seems to me like it's just going to be a steeper curve for those that are behind already, but maybe I'm misunderstanding it. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Xanthippe on September 30, 2008, 06:21:17 PM Pretty sure that's a "bad thing". They're just going to adjust the costs for level 80 items to account for the fact that some people have 75k honor banked, unlike myself who just finished levelling my rogue to 70 a week ago. Seems to me like it's just going to be a steeper curve for those that are behind already, but maybe I'm misunderstanding it. Won't matter since the gear is going to be arena dependent anyway, right? Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Azaroth on September 30, 2008, 07:08:10 PM Pretty sure that's a "bad thing". They're just going to adjust the costs for level 80 items to account for the fact that some people have 75k honor banked, unlike myself who just finished levelling my rogue to 70 a week ago. Seems to me like it's just going to be a steeper curve for those that are behind already, but maybe I'm misunderstanding it. Jist: They're both bad options, because it's a bad system. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Koyasha on October 01, 2008, 01:05:50 AM You'd think they could put in a login message popup box (not the motd, cause nobody reads those and all) or something that warns people about this, so the ones that don't read the forums can not be surprised. Gee, who'da thunk of that?
And if it's on the MOTD, website, and a popup box and people are still 'surprised', then forget them. I guess I'll have to start working on banking up honor. Figured I'd be able to handle that post expansion with a little leisure and still get the rewards in time to be kinda competitive. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Simond on October 01, 2008, 05:04:28 AM Yeah, but honour gain will be scaled up at 80 as well (see L60 vs L70 honour rewards) so it'll be a wash.
Hell, if they've got any sense they'll nerf the honour costs back down a patch or three down the line after the hoarders have blown all their honour on the blue pvp gear. :grin: Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Drubear on October 01, 2008, 05:42:40 AM And, ah, not to be cynical or anything, but if there's to be an honor wipe, and the stuff they'd be offering in the interim aren't all that attractive, why bother running the honor-hamster wheel while you're waiting for WotLK to show up?
I daresay it's more about interim retention and eyeballs than whinings now or after the expansion shows up (like anyone's gonna remember the wipe while they're playing their DK's for the first 3 months or so.) Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Dren on October 01, 2008, 05:45:50 AM To me, the arena crap makes this wipe or no wipe issue moot. You are still going to have to start at ground zero to get your Arena scores up to snuff in order to get the best stuff.
I really wish they'd put in a system where Arena scores and points just got your discounts on items rather than locking people out of them. Everyone should be able to get the items if they build up enough honor and marks. Forcing us to play a portion of the PvP game that most everyone hates just doesn't make sense. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Xeyi on October 02, 2008, 07:16:50 AM A European CM just confirmed that arena points from Lake Wintergrasp were just for the beta.
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=5963178529&pageNo=8&sid=1#154 Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: K9 on October 02, 2008, 07:48:22 AM weak.
I liked an idea put in that thread though; scarp the whole arena-team concept and give everyone a personal rating that changes game by game, then let everyone queue for arenas similar to BGs. If you win you get points, if you loose you don't. Rating purely determines who you get matched with and against. This would make BGs more accessible and more amusing I reckon. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Lightstalker on October 02, 2008, 09:59:40 AM Rating for match-making purposes should have an effective floor equal to the highest rated item you have (on, in inventory, in the bank).
Would mitigate a great deal of the sand-bagging that the arena system encourages for all but the best players. Of course the arena system isn't about finding a good match for players as much as it is about trying to eliminate obvisouly bad matches. That their metric does not track with team skill or ability just means they are measuring the wrong things with their (team) rating system (specifically they are discarding information about past performance that is carried with the rating requirements on the items a player uses). I'd really prefer a gear budget based on team rating and independant/temporary gear for arena combats - where one picks a set of arena gear each week with the team update, so Arena PvP gear and BG or PvE domains could remain entirely seperate and not muddle each other's balance points. The same character would then have different limits imposed on different teams depending on their performance with that team - and none of the equipment could escape the specialized arena format. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Simond on October 02, 2008, 02:10:36 PM Speaking of PvP: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10532281614&sid=1&pageNo=2#22
Quote Actually, we have been discussing new battlegrounds quite a bit lately. Wrath of the Lich King will feature Strand of the Ancients (attack/defend) as well as Wintergrasp (non-instanced, world PvP). But past that, we are exploring ideas that would involve expanding our Battleground content in future patches and beyond. We believe we have some strong ideas for improving Battlegrounds and PvP as a whole in the game and we're definitely going to focus on improvements in the future. Now, it's very early to be talking about some of this stuff but I think it's important for the community to know that it's on our minds. Our general thought is that we could provide more BG content over time. The BG content that we could provide could be of higher quality with a higher degree of accessibility. Overall, we'd like to have more content and variety. We also want the gameplay experience in the BGs to be better directed. We're also exploring the concept of a complimentary "competitive" bg system as well. Over time, we'd like the focus of PvP to shift back to being more BG-centric and more focused on Horde versus Alliance -- the core of our game. We're also planning on improving some Battleground and PvP features in general. For example, we want to give you the ability to queue for Battlegrounds from anywhere in the world. We're also going to explore EXP gain through the PvP system as well as low level itemization to support that. Please don't take this post as a promise. This won't be an overnight process. Not all of these things are set in stone and guaranteed to happen. It would take us a while to shift in this direction. But these are some of the current thoughts on the development team. I think it's important for you guys to know some of our thought process in regards to PvP. "Thanks for the beta-testing, Mythic. We'll be stealing that now" :grin: Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Fordel on October 02, 2008, 04:09:47 PM Don't Worry WAR : http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10544541923&pageNo=1&sid=2000#4
You'll be safe for awhile. :oh_i_see: Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Rasix on October 02, 2008, 04:21:22 PM Don't Worry WAR : http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10544541923&pageNo=1&sid=2000#4 You'll be safe for awhile. :oh_i_see: Wow. I can't see myself going back to WoW for the pvp again. Reading that made me somewhat physically ill. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Ratman_tf on October 02, 2008, 04:27:02 PM Ass backward.
Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Xeyi on October 02, 2008, 04:41:37 PM Don't Worry WAR : http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10544541923&pageNo=1&sid=2000#4 You'll be safe for awhile. :oh_i_see: I find their stance on this bizarre really. How hard would it be to add a simple pvp set obtainable solely through honour. For some reason they seem to think that people who don't like arenas are suddenly going to see the light, and if they don't then there's no space for them in pvp at all. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: pxib on October 02, 2008, 05:34:21 PM Indeed. Where WoW suffers is that WAR is so obviously designed with PvP in mind, from the ground up, while Warcraft is... not. For all the buggy implementation of things that WoW has right, WAR makes sure that no skill, no talent, no equipment, no character class is useless while in combat with other players.
WAR's PvE suffers for it. WoW can't afford to abandon their endgame raiding crews. If WoW copies the queue system, PvP drops, and experience for PvPing... vastly increases the variety of battleground types and maps... adds some sort of ability scaling thing that artificially "levels up" characters at the bottom end of battleground tiers... then they still wind up with gameplay and character classes that are best suited for their PvE roles. WAR has a very safe niche, and so long as they're happy with niche numbers they've got nothing to worry about. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Fordel on October 02, 2008, 06:37:40 PM Blizzard just keeps trying to apply "PvE Reward Theory" to PvP.
With the expected results. :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Merusk on October 02, 2008, 06:39:30 PM That's because you're seeing PVE-centric guys designing a PVP system. None of this should surprise you. For all their cries of "Oh yeah, we love PVP and have lots of devs who do it" it's patently obvious they don't "get it." it's still a distraction and tacked-on. No, don't play WoW for pvp, ever, despite their attempts to make arenas some odd e-sport. If you don't mind the imbalances and the gear-discrepancies then it can be ok. But that's it, just OK.
Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Fordel on October 02, 2008, 06:45:13 PM The only truly surprising thing, is the persistence!
Blizzard is SLOW, but they usually figure it out after while. Not so here! Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Merusk on October 02, 2008, 06:49:22 PM Arenas, like meeting stones, are someone's pet project. Once that person moves on we'll probably see them fixed or altered to something more sensible. That it's taken this long leads me to believe it's Tigole or Kalgan's baby.
Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Fordel on October 02, 2008, 07:19:12 PM Kalgan's is my guess, Tigole is much more into the Raid stuff and world design, it's always Kalgan trying to explain their stupid PvP stuff.
But even meeting stones didn't last THIS long! Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Koyasha on October 03, 2008, 03:13:31 AM Wait, at first I thought the gear would require an arena standing, but on looking closer it sounds as though it simply requires arena points? Shrug. I don't see a big deal, in that case. Arena points are easy to get and don't require the annoying hours spent in battlegrounds, or worse, the goddamn time spent in battlegrounds I don't even want to do and that we always lose at, for the damn marks.
Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Zetor on October 03, 2008, 03:54:05 AM Yes, the "noob-level" (Savage) s5 gear doesn't require rating. However, the better s5 sets (Hateful, Deadly) require 1800+ and 2000+ ratings respectively. It is my understanding that you'll be able to buy all three sets at the start of season5.
Considering that there is a two tier difference between Savage and Deadly... yeah, there'll be a power gap. A HUGE power gap at that, even worse than how it is now (at least now you can get season2 via honor). -- Z. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: rk47 on October 03, 2008, 04:03:17 AM Quote I, for one, feel that arena is far more important than battlegrounds or outdoor pvp will ever be as it is the only PvP that really can develope your character. :awesome_for_real:Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: rk47 on October 03, 2008, 04:16:23 AM Indeed. Where WoW suffers is that WAR is so obviously designed with PvP in mind, from the ground up, while Warcraft is... not. For all the buggy implementation of things that WoW has right, WAR makes sure that no skill, no talent, no equipment, no character class is useless while in combat with other players. This. Is truth. I taunted as a tank to deal 30% damage more on tanks that ignore me, and did an aoe taunt to EVERYONE in front of me to deal 30% less damage to ANYONE ELSE but ME. How awesome is that? Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Xeyi on October 03, 2008, 08:23:35 AM This thread/Kalgan parody from the US official forums is a few days old now but it sums things up quite nicely :awesome_for_real:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10544538303&sid=1&pageNo=1 Quote YOU'RE GOING TO ARENA, AND YOU ARE GOING TO LIKE IT, YOU HEAR ME?! AIN'T NO WAY IS THE BOTTOM FALLING OUT OF THE GLORIOUS PYRAMID OF SKILL MY ARENAS HAVE CONSTRUCTED, I WON'T PUT UP WITH THIS CRAP. COME WOTLK,YOU'RE ALL GOING TO GET YOUR HANDS DIRTY IN MY LINE-OF-SIGHT, COUNTER-COMP, RUN-AWAY-AND-DRINK, BURST-THE-WARRIOR, TRAIN-THE-LOCK, OOM-THE-HEALERS, FLAVOUR-OF-THE-MONTH, SAND-BOX CREATION THAT IS THE BE-ALL-END-ALL OF ANY KIND OF PVP EXPERIENCE YOU PATHETIC RETARDS WILL EVER SEE IN ANY MMO OF YOUR SHORT INSIGNIFICANT LIVES. I MEAN JESUS CHRIST YOU GUYS SHOULD BE SIPHONING OFF SOME OF YOUR GRANDMOTHERS PENSION TO ME CAUSE THIS IS JUST SO GOOD. AND IF ANY OF YOU SKILLESS WORMS DARE THINK OTHERWISE YOU"RE GOING TO HAVE TO SETTLE FOR PVE BLUE GEAR, GOT IT? GOOD LUCK PVPING IN THAT CRAP, YOU'RE GOING TO BLOODY-WELL NEED IT. THEN AGAIN, THAT'S ALL YOU BATTLEGROUND / WORLD PVP LOVING FAILURES DESERVE. HELL, YOU'RE LUCKY YOU'RE EVEN ALLOWED TO BUY WOTLK WITHOUT HAVING A PERSONAL RATING OF 2200. WOW ISN'T ABOUT FUN ANYMORE, IT'S ABOUT GODDAMN SKILL, YOU HEAR ME? AT LEAST WATCHING THE GLADIATORS (THAT ARE PROBABLY BETTER THAN YOU IN RL AS WELL) MORTAL-STRIKING / DIVINE-STORMING / SHADOW-STEPPING YOUR NOOB ASS INTO OBLIVION IN BATTLEGROUNDS WILL KEEP ME AMUSED AS I CREATE THE NEXT TIER OF ARENA GEAR WHILE BENCHING DOUBLE YOUR BODY WEIGHT WITH ONE ARM. LOVE, FROM YOUR PVP OVERLORD AND COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF, KALGAN Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Lakov_Sanite on October 03, 2008, 08:52:13 AM Quote From Tigole: We're also planning on improving some Battleground and PvP features in general. For example, we want to give you the ability to queue for Battlegrounds from anywhere in the world. We're also going to explore EXP gain through the PvP system as well as low level itemization to support that. Resistance is futile, all mmo's will be assimilated. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Ratman_tf on October 03, 2008, 10:18:07 AM Arena points are easy to get and don't require the annoying hours spent in battlegrounds, Slamming my dick in a door is easy, but I wouldn't do it either. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Azaroth on October 03, 2008, 08:06:25 PM Quote HELL, YOU'RE LUCKY YOU'RE EVEN ALLOWED TO BUY WOTLK WITHOUT HAVING A PERSONAL RATING OF 2200. I lol'd. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Paelos on October 03, 2008, 10:49:35 PM Arena points are easy to get and don't require the annoying hours spent in battlegrounds, Slamming my dick in a door is easy, but I wouldn't do it either. I can play rock/paper/scissors while rolling my face across a keyboard. That doesn't make it a skill. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Ratman_tf on October 06, 2008, 12:07:17 AM Arena points are easy to get and don't require the annoying hours spent in battlegrounds, Slamming my dick in a door is easy, but I wouldn't do it either. I can play rock/paper/scissors while rolling my face across a keyboard. That doesn't make it a skill. Sounds kinda fun though! :grin: Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Dren on October 06, 2008, 07:52:45 AM Arena points are easy to get and don't require the annoying hours spent in battlegrounds, or worse, the goddamn time spent in battlegrounds I don't even want to do and that we always lose at, for the damn marks. Arena points are easy, sure. That is if you have people you can run arenas with on a consistent basis. I don't have that. Thus, I'm locked out of a huge portion of the goodies. Why does there have to be only one way to get the best items? As the parody posted earlier suggests, Blizzard must think Arenas is the best thing since sex. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Koyasha on October 06, 2008, 10:38:30 AM I was talking about arena points being easy even when you're counting on losing every match. At that point friends or people you can run on a consistent basis with are irrelevant. Just get a team made, and then do it every week on your own if you have to. Still get the losing points even if you ran 10 fights solo.
Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Zetor on October 06, 2008, 11:06:02 AM And those points will be only used to buy the low-end arena gear [which is 2 tiers behind the top-end arena gear] unless you have the 1800ish rating for the second set or 2000ish rating for the 3rd set.
(for comparison's sake, you can buy season2 with honor right now) Edited for clarification: It's a stupid system that screws non-"elite" players twice compared to the current system (which is unfriendly towards them to begin with, much more so than s2 or even s3 was)... first they'll have to endure a massive gear disadvantage in arena without even being able to prepare by running BGs for the 'starter' gear, then they actually have to spend their hard-earned (and few) arena points on that very same gear while they get consistently roflstomped in battlegrounds by the leeter arena players who have full deadly sets. And that's not even mentioning players who join in arena late (when everyone's already geared up)... it's not going to be pretty. -- Z. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Azaroth on October 06, 2008, 11:37:45 AM Wrath of the Lich King - "Grind or Quit"
Coming Nov. 13th. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Dren on October 06, 2008, 12:16:41 PM I was talking about arena points being easy even when you're counting on losing every match. At that point friends or people you can run on a consistent basis with are irrelevant. Just get a team made, and then do it every week on your own if you have to. Still get the losing points even if you ran 10 fights solo. Um, as said, you do need a good score to get the best items. I can get the "sorta good" stuff with BG points and marks regardless. This "plan" of yours doesn't make any sense. Plus, who the hell would do that in a game? That has got to be the most unfun thing I've ever read. Also, your points received per week are dependent on your score. The lower the score, the less you earn per week. It will take you forever and a day to get any balance worth anything using your technique. I'm guessing you'd get maybe 150 points per week. Maybe others have a better estimate. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Fordel on October 06, 2008, 02:30:54 PM It would be more like 300. Even the most abysmal of ratings nets you 200-300 points in 5v5 and 3v3.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?page=249 If you want to fiddle. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Ratman_tf on October 06, 2008, 03:01:23 PM I was talking about arena points being easy even when you're counting on losing every match. At that point friends or people you can run on a consistent basis with are irrelevant. Just get a team made, and then do it every week on your own if you have to. Still get the losing points even if you ran 10 fights solo. Gahfuck! Why not just quit and go play something fun? More power to people who enjoy the arenas, but no thanks. I'll pass. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Paelos on October 06, 2008, 03:03:35 PM I was talking about arena points being easy even when you're counting on losing every match. At that point friends or people you can run on a consistent basis with are irrelevant. Just get a team made, and then do it every week on your own if you have to. Still get the losing points even if you ran 10 fights solo. Gahfuck! Why not just quit and go play something fun? More power to people who enjoy the arenas, but no thanks. I'll pass. The funny part is that a lot of that gear is ridiculously viable in pve. The shields alone, which almost never drop in our raids and are highly sought after, S3 was better armor and stam than T6 stuff. S2 was better than T5 stuff. I joined an arena team of 2v2 for a month just to get that shield, which i still use. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Merusk on October 06, 2008, 03:51:31 PM I was talking about arena points being easy even when you're counting on losing every match. At that point friends or people you can run on a consistent basis with are irrelevant. Just get a team made, and then do it every week on your own if you have to. Still get the losing points even if you ran 10 fights solo. Gahfuck! Why not just quit and go play something fun? More power to people who enjoy the arenas, but no thanks. I'll pass. The funny part is that a lot of that gear is ridiculously viable in pve. The shields alone, which almost never drop in our raids and are highly sought after, S3 was better armor and stam than T6 stuff. S2 was better than T5 stuff. I joined an arena team of 2v2 for a month just to get that shield, which i still use. This is why they're putting ratings on ALL the sets now. The shit worked well in PvE for a lot of classes and "offspecs" (I abused the system a lot as staggered upgrades on my hunter, as did the Mage, Shaman, other hunter, warlock and Priest on my team.) We lost almost all our matches, but in a 5-man with a 1300 rating we'd net 300 points a week. That's plenty to pick-up one or two things in a few weeks, (hello uber hunter axe for only 1k points) and then save up points for the next season's upgrades. I stopped arenas 3 weeks after S3 was released, but I had 3 pieces of the armor without a problem, not all of it upgrades, but it helped me to survive in BGs against folks in full sets. Fuck, I started using the system on alts so I could gear them up for an hour or two a week instead of sitting on my ass for 12-23 hours completing 2-3 kara runs for badges. (And then needing at least 5 weeks of Badge runs to even buy one decent upgrade.) Got my priest out of her shitty quest greens and gave me some nice upgrades to head into WoTLK with, should I decide to play her again. So OF COURSE the system was going to be shot to hell in the x-pack. It was too easy to get good gear. A fuckload easier and less time-consuming than even kara badge farming with T5-equipped groups. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Paelos on October 06, 2008, 09:51:57 PM I don't disagree with rating pvp gear.
I disagree with rating it on arenas. That's not pvp. That's like the microwave of pvp. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Fordel on October 06, 2008, 10:59:13 PM For a lot of specs, the PvP gear was the only actual gear catered to them outside of the Tier sets.
Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Paelos on October 07, 2008, 12:00:12 AM For a lot of specs, the PvP gear was the only actual gear catered to them outside of the Tier sets. Blizzard sucks at itemization. We know this. Still, there are a lot of specs that have no business raiding in the current setup. We can blame them for that too. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Azazel on October 07, 2008, 07:05:25 PM For players like myself, without the time or inclination to raid or even run 2hour heroics, running shittyhorribad arenas is/was the only real upgrade path once you hit max level and there's no more quest rewards. I'm expecting WotLK to be a lot of fun up until shortly aftter I hit 80, then the gear cap.
At that point, when there's no real further upgrade path without becoming much more catassy in one form or another, I'll qui and it'll be finally time to crack open my WAR box. Hopefully by then, most of the obvious clownshoes I read about in the WAR forums will be repaired or patched out, and it'll be a worthwhile way to spend a few months... :oh_i_see: Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: AcidCat on October 08, 2008, 10:12:41 AM For players like myself, without the time or inclination to raid or even run 2hour heroics, running shittyhorribad arenas is/was the only real upgrade path once you hit max level and there's no more quest rewards. I'm expecting WotLK to be a lot of fun up until shortly aftter I hit 80, then the gear cap. At that point, when there's no real further upgrade path without becoming much more catassy in one form or another, I'll qui and it'll be finally time to crack open my WAR box. Hopefully by then, most of the obvious clownshoes I read about in the WAR forums will be repaired or patched out, and it'll be a worthwhile way to spend a few months... :oh_i_see: Well I was kinda in the same boat but found Battlegrounds much more my style for gear upgrading, I certainly didn't mind getting older Arena stuff that had rolled over to pure honor purchases, these were good enough upgrades and still took some time to get. However if all PvP gear is going to require arena rating at 80, there goes my preferred method of endgame progression. I don't like arenas just on a design standpoint - I'd much rather play some kind of war simulation than a sport simulation - but mainly it fails the same way raiding does - I'm not going to schedule my life around the game, period, ever. And even getting on some loser arena team would require me getting on at certain times to meet up and play. Not gonna do it. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Azazel on October 09, 2008, 08:07:19 PM Yeah, but the BG stuff was pretty shitty, so we just went for the S1 gear via arena, and got the first boots/bracers/belt items from BGs. From on-and-off playing, my characters are outfitted in a mix of various S1-4 gladiators stuff mostly (all?) gotten from arenas over the last couple years, and off-piece items from the BGs.
And a couple of well-statted greens and blues I didn't want to downgrade to shitty purples for. I agree though, if arena ratings are going to be required for BG gear, I'll start playing WAR when I get to that point, if they haven't changed the reqs by then. I'm not playing any of these MMOs as a life choice, I'm playing them for entertainment. While they're still fun I'll happily play, but when they start severely sucking, I stop. I've done it before and I'll do so again. It's just not usually so obviously well-sighted in advance, is all. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Xanthippe on October 12, 2008, 09:25:33 AM I don't think I'll be spending much time in the bgs at 80. I have 4 70s to get to 80 and two other alts that are over 50 that I can spend getting to 80.
I'm finding that I enjoy leveling up more than actually being at max level when I'm outgeared. I hate arenas. I won't do it. I also have an unopened WAR box that might get opened if I can't just bg my way to gear at endgame. Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Azazel on October 12, 2008, 09:45:55 PM See, I actually enjoy (some) BGs. I like doing AV, AB can be fun. And WSG is just horribad. But I don't enjoy the prospect of being a BG speedbump by not doing arenas like I'm "supposed to".
Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Xanthippe on October 13, 2008, 09:17:32 AM See, I actually enjoy (some) BGs. I like doing AV, AB can be fun. And WSG is just horribad. But I don't enjoy the prospect of being a BG speedbump by not doing arenas like I'm "supposed to". I like battlegrounds too. I just hate arenas. I would like battlegrounds more if gear wasn't so important, I think. Naked battlegrounds seem like a good idea to me. Or naked arenas. How can you compare how well Player A does vs Player B when Player A has gear that effectively gives him a level or two over Player B? Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Merusk on October 13, 2008, 09:42:27 AM One of the blizzcon notes on MMO-champion mentioned the possiblity of "ranked" BGs, Presumably based on gear. Apparently this is to avoid some of the BS of getting your ass handed to you in .09 seconds by a guy in Season 12 epics while you're floundering in quest greens. THey also mentioned guild ranking ladders.
But of course, none of that's grind ;) Title: Re: WotLK to wipe honor and marks Post by: Azazel on October 13, 2008, 09:21:10 PM That's even more fucked. I like going in and just playing with whoever my friends are without it becoming an arena-style ranked-and-rated clusterfuck. They may as well go back to the original BS BG ranking style...
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