f13.net

From here. (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/spore/news.html?sid=6197060)


Wat?

I think the UO and DAOC teams have realized nobody pays attention to anything they say and are just making shit up for their bosses.

Ahaha, this doesn't go on the UO forum because it ALSO involves DAOC!

He's confused subscribers with emu, obviously. 

(http://www.4staremuranch.com/images/emu2.jpg)

DAOC probably hasn't had 100k subs since 2004 (I'm not talking about WoW).

Maybe there are about 75,000 people who just forgot to ever cancel DAOC when they stopped playing? I know it is 2 AM PST and not exactly peak hours, but they actually publish worldwide current login info on the Camelot Herald and DAOC right at the moment I'm making this post has only 2,047 accounts logged in worldwide. I don't see how that can possibly translate to 100k+ subscribers.

It's all the people who accidentally subbed to DOAC when signing up for WAR.

I think he's saying the two games combined have over 100k subscribers.

.... and then there's The Sims Online .... oh wait.

As long as we've started the litany: Earth and Beyond, Motor City Online, Majestic.

And a couple of attempted sequels to Ultima.

I dunno... there are a LOT of crazy dudes that have castles and what-not in UO that they just don't want to give up.

Also, a couple of years ago UO got a big bump from outside the country... specifically they got a bunch of new Brazilian players. I have no idea why all of a sudden a 10 year old American MMO was suddenly popular in South America, but it happened. If they counted both DAOC and UO I could see it hitting 100k+ worldwide...

They really should convert the UO client to a Java client so you could play it right from a browser. I think they'd actually start attracting new customers.

Ohhhh... a pre-trammel ruleset Java UO.. brilliant!

This bait is old and much gnawed on.  There's no way anyone would take it.   :grin:

Java. Heh. Run like as.

So exactly like old skool UO only in a browser.

I R HERE! AND DAMN I R HUNGRY!!!111!!!! ;)

Or 'Runescape' as some people prefer to call it.

Chart?

Runs like ass.

bring back precasting

corp por.

Multiplayer Battletech: 3025

 :cry2:

I've been saying that for ages.

biatch

Fethers!

Anyone still plays UO or DAoC ?

No, they all quit last week.  I blame the nearly-decade delayed effects of Trammel.  Even for the DAOC cancellations.

Last I heard UO North America pretty much went into the grave of ghost servers, ironically UO-Asia ruleset does not have trammel, or at least not when they initially rolled it out.

You are wrong.

Your problem here is that you tried to pack too much content into that post.  Try breaking it up into 2 or 3 smaller posts next time.

There wasn't anything else to say.  He and Wrong were one.

He made three assertions.  Were all three wrong?

One is subjective, two are objectively wrong.  The population has undoubtedly declined to where Japan is the majority these days, and some of the non-original shards that there was never any reason to create in the first place (Lake Austin, Legends, Origin) are pretty empty.  On the other hand, the shards I've played (Atlantic, Great Lakes, Europa) have all had pretty good traffic, with Atlantic packed and full of newbs running around like it was still the good old days.

All the stuff about the Asian shards and Trammel is just some fantasyland shit that I've never heard before.  I imagine he'd like to believe that all the Trammified shards died off while some mythical Tramless shards continuted to prosper, but I have no idea why he thinks he can say this in front of me with a straight face and not get called on it.

I'm here to rescue the thread.

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa181/Yegolev/tyrone_chappelle.jpg)

Read up on it, all Asian shards, like Muga-whatchacallit have Siege-like rule sets with some modification. Asia loves them there their PKing.

Asian shards all have Trammel, and always have.
Except for Mugen, which is the Asian side's Siege, with no modifications.
You are a dumbfuck.

Read up on it?  Asshole, I've made characters on Asian shards.

Asian shards all have Trammel and have since Trammel launched or at least, very soon after. Now, many of the Asian shards did launch without Trammel, but that was because most of them launched before Trammel existed. With the release of UO:R they were all upgraded to Trammel. Mugen has SP rules with one difference...it also has Trammel.

Well it has a landmass called Trammel, even though you can still attack people there.  Anyway, that aside, I wonder why EA shitcanned Sims Online instead of rolling it into the elderly MMO retirement home along with UO and DAOC.  Okay, because UO and DAOC still have some subscribers whereas Sims never really had any, but still.

I don't know why EA doesn't do a Station Pass type of deal.  Being able to play WAR, DAOC, and UO on the same bill wouldn't be a bad deal.  And for the cost of plugging one server back in, they could put Sims on the list for the name alone.  I mean I figure that's gotta be what keeps Matrix Online alive over at SOE.

Is it that they don't want to give away subscriptions to multiple games for a reduced price?  Am I supposed to pay full price for multiple EA games simultaneously?  I don't understand the logic there, since odds are that if I'm going to pay full price for more than one MMO, one of them is going to be WoW.  You may as well offer me a Station Pass and try to keep me under your roof when I burn out on one game and want to try another.

EA's online strategy has never made sense. Also the TSO crowd all moved over to Second Life -- I doubt many would come back to TSO if it reopened.

Because their games are largely embarrassments whose players should be kept isolated from differently-broken players, lest there be created some sort of mini-black-hole of bad taste.

EA's president must have passed some of that crack to WUA, otherwise why would he still play UO? Unless pretending to be robotic neon-colored pointy-eared Jesus touches some of his deeper darker fetishes.

Really, why would anyone play the same whack-a-mole for more than a decade? Surely not for entertaiment, that long since degenerated into repetitiveness and routine.  Habit? I think its even past that. My best guess is that Trammie ingrained so deeply into WUA that it became part of how he defines himself, if not for lashing at the ghosts of the dread lords he wouldn't know who he is.

Generic pissant flaming in an attempt to distract from the fact that you opened your fat fucking mouth more than once despite not having a clue what the hell you were talking about?  From you, Sinij?  Say it ain't so!

This is a pretty poor comeback.

So anyway, what the fuck is Tremmel?

In simple, non-UO player terms.

This has to be a troll.

(http://www.gearsandwidgets.com/external/wherethisthreadgoing.jpg)

Nope, not a troll post. I've been reading about UO players argue and complain about Trammel for several years now on here. I never played UO. My intro to MMOGing was EQ1. When I see people talking about Trammel, I have no fucking idea what they're on about. My best guess is that it's something like that DAOC expansion that fucked DAOC. Though I was long gone from DAOC when that came out as well.

Back in ye olden tymes, UO had no real PvP switch. It had guards in town but other than that it was Lord of the Flies time - which pissed off everyone who didn't want their character to be tankmages or GM poisoned kriss dexmonkeys, or what have you. See, one of the points of UO was that it was supposed to be more of a world (hence the skill-based system) so you could, theoretically, have a character with no combat skill at all.

Naturally, this lead to the minmaxed PKers running around killing helpless miners which in turn lead to the helpless miners complaining to UO (and being told to STFU by said PKers). So...EA came up with an idea. Mirror the world and have one 'side' be the old ruleset with pvp everywhere (Felucca), and the other 'side' being very, very limited pvp (Trammel). The PKers scoffed, because who would want to play UO without the thread of roaming ganksquads behind every bush?

About 95% of the playerbase, as it happened. So, since then you have the people who, basically, aren't good enough to play PvP in any other game where their opponents might just fight back bemoaning how unfair it is that EA stopped them victimising helpless peasants.

Edit: VV Yeah, I just realised I didn't actually name the two sides.  :uhrr:

To add to what Simond said when EA split UO into the two worlds, the world with the original ruleset (i.e. non-consensual PvP) was called Felucca and the world with only consensual PvP was called Trammel.

On all the normal shards, Trammel is the landmass with no PK, while Felucca is the oldschool PK land.  (All of the expansion landmasses operate under Trammel rules as well.)  The PVP shard called Mugen has all the landmasses, including Trammel, but the shard's rules mean that you can PK in all of them.

ok.. so two more questions.

In a "mirrored world" can you travel from Felucca to Trammel?

Why does this mean everyone hates Trammel then? (espcially in light of how popular Blue servers have always been in EQ/WoW/etc?)

Everyone doesn't hate Trammel.

A vocal minority of people who liked griefing other players hate Trammel.

Visit Felucca to witness at first hand its amazing popularity!

Then what's the big deal?

or are people taking the piss out of the griefers?

The UO-era PKs are still unhappy that people have the choice to avoid being ganked, and that pretty much ever MMOG since then has also allowed that choice.
They're sore losers, basically.

I believe Scott Jennings said it best: (http://brokentoys.org/2008/07/21/a-brief-history-of-time/)

(http://sjennings.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/timecube1.jpg)

The people who liked how PvP was set up in UO loudly and continually complained about the change because it left the open PvP area empty. No-one wants to be an easy target.

It's like the people who complained that SOE screwed over SWG with the NGE. If the number of threads that topic generates actually reflected the number of people who were playing SWG, there never would have been an NGE.

And yeah, you can travel to and from Felucca just by hopping through a moongate, and there's a moongate outside each major city.

There was no need for Trammel if the devs had given us tools of some sort to punish evildoers.

1.  Bounties
2.  Prison
3.  Skill Reduction

Something.

The first 2 were in the game when I played.
I regularly collected bounties for the heads of Reds I killed.
I ended up in prison myself. This was a GM action though. Usually because you were griefing someone.

The problem with UO was that PVP combat was so quick, having someone run up and gank you could have you dead in just a few seconds. There was no way somone that was setup to mine ore could fend off some jerk with GM poison/Dex using macros... They would literally port in and BAM! You were GM poisoned AND they were pummeling you. The only thing you could do was have a macro setup to port out and die at your house 5 seconds later. If they would have just worked on the combat mechanic, there wouldn't have been as much of a problem.

Oh wow. Are we doing the player justice topic today?  :awesome_for_real:


And griefers liked to camp the Felucca side of the moongate and gank any bluebies who were hoping to score some uncontested mining or loot farming.

I believe the term "carebear" was born from the Trammel/Felucca split.

Yeah, as soon as they opened Trammel about 90% of the playerbase piled into it and never left.  A small, retarded, but extremely loud fragment of the remaining 10% is still mad about it 8 years later.

I'm not having the "If only they added some magical jail/bounty social engineering solution instead of Trammel!" conversation again.  Punishing the PKs just enough that they only punish the carebears at a rate that isn't quite enough to make them quit seems like a cool idea, right up until some other games come out and everyone quits to go play them because they're tired of being punished one way or another in UO.

Also, I think it's time to break out my chart again.

(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e121/GrimDysart/tramcahrt.jpg)

Another problem with patching in a player justice system; it gives players something else they need to deal with. So not only do you HAVE TO get ganked while you're mining, but you also HAVE TO report them and deal with the justice system. So you have to deal with PKs...twice.

Actually it's difficult to explain how powerful gankers were in pre-Trammel UO. No game made since is anything like it.

The banks were surrounded by thieves who could pickpocket anything (relatively small) that you had in your backpack. Valuable weapons, the key (and therefore deed) to your home (and all it contained). Piles of spell reagents. Cash. Anything you'd spent ages crafting or gathering. Then they could slip it into their own bankbox (they were right next to the bank, after all) and there was no way you could get it back.

Outside town were the murderers. As soon as they killed you they could take ever item you were carrying... weapons, ammunition, potions. If you did not survive the combat, nothing you had in order to help you survive combat belonged to you anymore. To add to that mix, if the murderer could disarm you they could then PICKPOCKET YOUR OWN WEAPON OUT OF YOUR INVENTORY so you were COMPLETELY WEAPONLESS.

Add to this that there were dozens of skills available. Mining, forestry, carpentry, blacksmithing, fishing, alchemy... things for which one might want to be out in the woods gathering materials. Except that instead of getting all those skills, you could just get the skills required to be a murderer and hunt those crafters for sport. Murderer was, as a general rule, the best class to be if you wanted to make money... to get the best crafted items... or just generally the best loot the game had to offer.

And the griefers will never be able to do that, ever again. They can never have their glory days back. They can't even come close to it. The absolute worst you can do to someone is steal their kills, or get to a random reagent on the ground before they do. And that's really not that big of a deal. I was a counselor the day Trammel and Felucca split. It was amazing how exhuberant 90% of the players were, yet one in ten counselor calls was a complaint that they could never randomly kill or steal or even block someone from walking through a doorway.

Never again.

And THAT was the best grief ever. ^_^

I have yet to ever see a 'player justice' system that wasn't just another tool to be griefed with.


Is griefed even a word?

Negative sub numbers only make sense when you include THE CHART as well:

(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1854/prepostrensm0ym.jpg)

How I loved that loony AW's thread.

Probably not, but damn was it great being the wolf. Most fun ever in a MMO. Problem is it sucks to be the lamb.

Here's a thought. Bear with me for a minute here. Imagine a full-on hardcore east-meet-west felucca MMO. No holds-barred, except maybe permadeath. You kill someone you get all their shit, rape their corpse, get their gmail password and email their aunt a bookmark to lemonparty and a picture of their cock from adultfriendfinder. We're talking HARDCORE. Fun as hell, as long as you're predator and not prey. So where do you get the prey?

Mainland China!

It's brilliant. They're given free "peasant" class accounts and allowed to mine ore, harvest rice paddies, run erratically in circles, chop down wood, whatever, so they can collect resources to sell offline for real money in a station-exchange kind of setup where the studio takes a large cut of proceedings. They can band together to protect themselves from predators (you and me), they can hire us as guards, whatever. That makes it more of a sport. When you kill a chinese farmer and take all his shit, you're depriving his family of food for the day. His children will go to bed hungry. How's that for griefing?

I would totally play that game.

Of course the punchline is, all those lambs can go back and relive at least some of their elvish RP mining-skinning days....

Why in the FUCK did this turn into another UO thread?

I think this is the most brilliant thing I have ever read here.  But then I am pretty high right now.

It was an EA exec, bragging about how much money they've made off of UO, that started the thread.  How was it *not* going to turn into a rehash of the glory days of Bonedewd and Platd00d?  I mean, really.

--Dave

All threads in these forums eventually turn into UO threads. It's just a question of time, patience and factor X.

Hey thanks guys. I now understand at least in general what the fuck you're on about in all these threads.  :awesome_for_real:

And we all learned something new today!!!  :pedobear:

No way, that is incredible and I'm completely sober.

Also, I'm glad someone FINALLY explained what the hell Trammel is.  I asked before but I think I was trampled by charts and touched dolls.

I will also vouch for the description of release UO.  Pretty much describes my entire play experience, however I quit playing after just a few azzrapes and took up EQ once the wounds scabbed over.

(http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/270913946_efa38ec3d8.jpg)

I laughed until I choked on my toothbrush.

This was a really shitty Trammel/Felucca thread.  I just want you all to know that I am very disappointed in you.  No graphs, no page 37 and nobody put in the effort to back-up WUA or Sinij when they finally made a half-dearted play.

If SWG NGE is a misty red patch where a dead beaten horse was, UO Trammel/Felucca is an ancient rumor of a dead horse buried with some Pharoah dude in a lego pyramid.

I just wanted to know what you fuckers were on about all this time.

(http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/files/bush-mission.jpg)

ta.

Sinij fucked off after one riposte, and Slayerik apparently doesn't want to play the "Trammel thread fight game" today.

I need a foil, damn it!  I can't do this by myself!   :cry:

I always wondered what Trammel was. Now, I know. Sadly, knowledge doesn't always equal power. Damn you, knowledge!

Slayerik is in very mellow mood at the moment.