f13.net

Yes. I was called in for jury duty today. When it is guaranteed I will not serve on a jury. On my day off.  To the building across the street from my office.

 :uhrr: :ye_gods: :uhrr:

Stop at a costume shop on the way in and get something colorful.  At least make it fun!

Being a member of the Bar for the court I am showing up at sorta precludes that kind of shenanigans.   :grin:

I would assume that being a lawyer makes getting selected as a juror tougher. Is that the case?

Yes. Almost impossible. Plus if it is a criminal case I probably work for the same office as the prosecutor.

Heh. Just watched a video shown to the potential jurors that evoked the Magna Carta, Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, and dead grandfathers in WWII.

 :awesome_for_real:

So you have to go through the whole process and be seated for your questioning before they'll boot you? That really, REALLY sucks.  Can't you just sit down and go, "Hi I'm a lawyer in this office, why am I here?"

Nope. You have to go through the voir dire process becuse there is still a 1 in 1000 chance of getting seated.  I will get a fat juicy check for 17 dollars though.

Do they have the same law over there that means if you actually do get picked, you're not supposed to say anything ?  Much less post on a message board ?

I sense a short lived thread.

 :awesome_for_real:

That's why I suggested the colorful suit.  Gets you out SO much faster.  Of course having to worry about being disbarred is a minor inconvenience.  

If you are seated (which I won't be), you aren't supposed to discuss the merits of the case with the other jurors or get information about the case from outside sources (like media).   I haven't even made it out of the juror bullpen at this point. I'm sure the attorneys are upstairs settling whatever case generated this juror call in the first place.

Ugh. A couple of geezers near me have decided that this is a good idea to bloviate about politics and government. Urge to kill rising.

I'm with Nebu. Get an Awesome For Real suit made.

What, no 9/11? Should've gotten on your feet and screamed about terrorist-loving courts and the legal system being a morass that protects terrorists and habeus corpus is no longer applicable.

Also, the defendant is guilty. The eyes, they're weasely, I'm sure of it.

From the description, I think I saw that same video two months ago at my jury duty.

However I got $40 for it rather than $17, so I'm calling it a win.

Serving on a jury is one of the most important things you can do as a citizen. I hate to think that people have the impression that getting out of serving on a jury using less than truthful means is something to be proud of. It isn't. It's disgraceful.

This isn't a comment against any one in particular and I understand the OP's unique set of circumstances. I just get tired of people who bitch about serving on jury duty and use whatever means they can to get out of it.

Until the government starts paying my full wages (and also has someone finish all my work while I am gone) when I go, I reserve the right to bitch. My company actually covers up to 5 days, but jerking somebody out of their job for several weeks is bullshit.

There is an amazing coinceidence at play here that I will gladly share later but can't because someone might read over my shoulder.

I should have been bounced out of here on multiple levels but I am having to sit through the whole process.  It's interesting to see it from the other side of the bar, but I'm not having much fun.

I'm interested in hearing your take on it from an attorney's perspective.  It's like the doctor becoming the patient kind of thing that they make movies out of. 

That's just fucking shameful right there.

I don't see how, it's never going to be a jury of my peers if I need it anyways, my peers are smart enough to get out of jury duty.
Besides, you convict the guy and hes back out on the street in 6 months robbing someone else, why should you have to waste all that time, money, and energy if they aren't going to actually stop him?

How is that shameful, exactly?  There are lots of people who can't afford to go to jury duty.  What is shameful is that the government doesn't pay you your exact wage.

Yeah, shoot all the convicted ones in the head. That'll stop 'em good!


I've never been summoned for jury duty.  Not in Ohio and not in Kentucky.  I find it a bit odd when I know folks who have been summoned multiple times.  I soothe myself by making up a world where I'm simply "known" and therefore not bothered with.

I've never been picked for a jury even though I've been summoned numerous times. I can only assume this is because of my race and/or education.

I think they accidentally showed you National Treasure III.

So, you should be paid your wages? What about that guy next to you that makes less? What about that woman behind you who makes double what you make? You're all sitting there doing the same thing but getting paid differently? You somehow think that's fair? Beyond fair, what about the cost to government (which means higher taxes) in order to do all the bookkeeping it would take to make sure people were paid what they make at work? Bad idea there. Real bad.

Beyond that, it's your duty as a citizen of this country. The alternative to our system can be seen throughout history. Do some reading and see what you should be scared of.

National Treasure III: The Search for Franklin's Stove!

Fine, exact wage might be unrealistic.  But 17 bucks a day?  40?  Get the fuck out of my face with that idiocy.  When the "duty" to perform jury duty causes ordinary people to struggle even more than they already are, you take take your "duty" and stick it 18 inches up your poop-chute.

I'm sure the mortgage company will understand when I can't pay my fucking mortgage on the shit pay they reimburse you. Stop being all offended and realize we agree with you about the duty part, but also live in the real world where we have, you know, bills and personal responsibilities.

If people want to discuss duty to country we could certainly open a draft thread. 



(I agree with Sky.  Duty is all fine and good, but you have to feed and shelter family too. )

Jury duty is like the draft without medals.

Jury compensation is modeled on a society that doesn't exist anymore. One where you owned your own place of business or worked your land for a living and had enough kids or helpers to keep it going for a week or so if you were called away.  Yes, it sucked if you had to serve and couldn't oversee things for a bit, but you weren't likely to lose your livelihood or your property because of it.  Today you run that risk if you're assigned a protracted case.  I recall hearing that the OJ jurors in particular had their own private hells - which is why I rather forgive the douchiest of them for trying to make a buck after the fact.

I got called up for jury duty once. Got a letter, followed by a series of increasingly angry and threatening letters over the next two months. I was in AIT at the time, and had to have my Guard CO write a series of letters when I got home. Never been called up in the 20 years since.

Seconded.  I accept the fact that it's my duty.  I can't accept the fact that taking a few days off unpaid (which is what jury duty would be to me or my family) would leave me financially burdened.  More than a week and we're missing mortgages, school loans and daycare expenses.  Christ, daycare alone is $80 a day. 

You can choose to vote for the future of your country.

You can't choose to opt out of being selected for jury duty.

AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!

Make sure you mutter loudly about jury nullification. They'll love that.

This is the first time I've heard of this happening to a lawyer. Fascinating. I mean, I'm sure it's happened before. I've just never run into the situation.

I don't think I could be on a jury if it was some sort of important case.  I can never decide on anything and once I finally do, I'm ALWAYS wrong.  Like if some child murderer had a cat, I'd be all like awww, that's so cute and he'd SO get off.  Proof wouldn't matter - especially if it was a ginger tabby.

(http://i.pbase.com/u36/minoltaman/upload/32247603.6828gingercat.jpg)

No way could someone own that and be guilty of anything!

Actually, at least in a few states, not being a registered voter opts you out for jury duty.  Or, anyway, the list of people eligible for jury duty are pulled from the registered voters list.

So, yeah, incentive not to vote.

Now that's messed up. They should just allow people to opt in for being selected for jury duty. So what if the majority will be seniors who watch Matlock reruns.

I've only been called once.  I sleep days so it basically fucked me up having to get up when I normally go to sleep.
I was one of the LAST people to get out of there at around 3pm or so, getting there at 9 AM.  It was a waste of my time frankly.
Not to mention the money thing.  I make 21-26 bucks an hour depending on our toke rate that day.  I got about 25 bucks for the whole day of wasted time.

Yeah.  Fuck jury duty.  I'm not that interested.  Its not shameful.  Its a pointless waste of time.  Make it volunteer.  Itll give old folks on social security something to do.

That or pay people at least minimum wage for the day.  Tax free.  40 bucks a day aint minimum wage.

Ok, back home.

Get this.  This was a voir dire for a civil case and the defendants were guys I SUED FOR BASICALLY THE EXACT SAME THING THEY ARE BEING SUED FOR IN THIS CASE.

 :rock:

So they made you jury foreman right?

 :grin:

"oh guys I know we cant talk about this case, but THERE WAS THIS OTHER CASE you see and these same guys..."

Sue the state for "Raging Douchebaggery in the 1st degree" for even sending you a letter for that case.

It actually made things better as I would have had to sit around that whole time for any other case and then get bounced because I am a lawyer, but seeing those chuckleheads being sued for something they touted in our case as one of their "successes" made it worth it.

NO to the first part. That would not be a jury of my peers. My peers know how to drive and use a PC, at the very least, among other things. Also, they tend to vote stupid.

I could live with the second part. Thankfully, my current job covers at least a week I think. And, if I get the kind of job I hope I get for my career, I won't even be eligible.

A number of years ago, when my younger sister was still in high school, my dad (who was a lawyer) was called up for jury duty in a murder case. That took place across the street from the high school my sister and I attended. Between two current students at that high school.

Needless to say he didn't make the cut.  :awesome_for_real:

I love how people complain about being selected for jury duty and do everything they can to get out of it (not talking about Abagadro, obviously) and then complain when fucked up juries return fucked up verdicts. :awesome_for_real:

My jury selection stories.

First time I was called up was for some minor drug case. I was part of the one of the groups that was called in while the lawyers were weeding out who they didn't want but they never got to me. If they had I'm pretty sure I would been rejected cause even back then I was in favor of legalizing marijuana.

Latest time, George Schultz was in the jury pool :drill: He was one of the people called into the courtroom for the selection process and the Judge wouldn't dismiss him out-of-hand so he had to go up and have a private conversation and then the Judge excused him. I was actually selected cause where I live the residents are typically highly educated (as a couple of you know) so the typical excuses don't normally work and the lawyers can't just automatically dismiss engineers and doctors and other highly educated professionals cause then they wouldn't have enough to fill the jury. We even had a lawyer in our jury but something happened and he was excused after the first day.

I ended up being the Foreman :grin: It was a very educational experience. A few things I learned:

* The pressure to make a decision as quickly as possible is pervasive. Everybody (well except me) wants to get out of there as quickly as possible.

* Lawyers, even where I live, don't do a good job. I had to write dozens of notes to the judge to get questions answered that the lawyers on both sides should've been asking the witnesses.

* The law is really really vague. And the Judge isn't much help in getting questions about the law answered.

* It's tough making decisions in cases based mostly on circumstantial evidence. There's always some doubt in the back of your mind.

I got a jury duty summons when I was a student and - not realising I didn't have to attend (under Australian law as a student) - I went along and was put onto a criminal case ... where the defendant pleaded guilty and we were dismissed.

15 years later I was called up again and they allowed me to defer it due to work, but got me again in a year - I had to go along. Journalists can be jurors, but I run news websites for a TV network which has a godawful tabloid current affairs show, whose website I also sometimes have to mess with. I was likely to have reported on various upcoming cases, so I named the current affairs show and asked them whether they really wanted anyone who worked for that. "You can go home, sir."

Crime Overlord?

To go back to Nebu's question. I think they need to improve the service level. I know budgets are tight and all, but we were kept there from 9:00 am to 2:00 pm without any food or chance to really get a drink (an inconvenient water cooler when we were shunted to another courtroom while they were hashing out strikes for cause).  The process also needs to be explained better as people were constantly asking what was going on and how much longer it would take. I know there needs to be some level of keeping them in the dark for the sake of the process, but simple things could have been communicated.   The video also sort of insulted my intelligence, but I'm not the target audience I know.  It's probably similar to being the doctor/patient. You realize the level of stuff you don't communicate because it is second nature to you but to the neophyte it is a complete mystery what is going on.

On the plus side, they do kiss your ass and tell you how great you are for showing up and being part of the process.  :grin:

Our judge was also somewhat funny and kept things from being a complete slog which many of them over in that building are not adept at doing from my experience.

Here in Oz, they provide tea, coffee and biscuits (cookies) while you are waiting around.

There's no such thing as the right to a "jury of your peers".

Last jury I was on, I asked the (Title of the guy that isn't a bailiff but does check in of the jury) how you get picked since everyone was asking how to get out of it. He said in Washington state, if you are a property owner, licensed driver, registered voter and something else he couldn't remember, you will be picked damn near every time you're eligible. Sho nuff, I get drawn for jury duty every year. And I usually get my summons as soon as my 12 month cooling off period is over. Fun stuff.

Foreign National. Kind of hard to get picked when you reside outside of the country.  :grin:

Thanks for the writeup Trippy.  I've been registered to vote for 18 years now and only gotten called once, this year (I have one more appearance to make out of four).  I've always been morbidly curious about acutally serving on a jury, but that could change once I actually have to do it.  My employer covers me (it's paid time off) so that helps my motivation too.

One thing that bothered me is that in our leisure-obsessed civilization, everyone wants to get the fuck out of there, never mind that you may be ruining someone's life or letting a dangerous criminal back on the streets.

I think jury duty falls into the necessary evil category.  I agree the "wages" such as they are are laughable.  You'd think that either the state should cover at least minimum wage, or your employer made to pay you at the usual rate (an average if you're hourly) even if it then has to be subsidized by the state.

I cannot get called up for Jury Duty because I'm not on the electoral roll. I have yet to establish if I will get into trouble when I give a fuck (read: have a preference) about any of our elections and sign up (if Brumby hangs around it won't be long).

The one time I've had jury duty so far, I got selected on a drug-related case (guess I looked serious enough for the prosecution yet young enough for the defence). During the first witness' testimony, I realised I knew exactly which house they were talking about and where, so had to get my self excused. It was a bit embarrassing to have to put my hand up, interrupt the second witness (a cop) and indicate I knew something. Fortunately they'd picked 2 reserve jurors for the case, so it wasn't a major issue.

The defendant had owned 3 dogs that had attempted to go me when I walked past one day. Was 300 kms from home at the time. Small world.

Since being out of school, I've only been selected once.  It was for a prostitution sting.

I don't mind serving, but really it is a waste of my time.  In criminal cases, no prosecutor in Houston is going to let me on a panel simply because of my views.  I'm too highly educated given the pool.  If I stay in politics much longer, it'll be problematic because I'll end up knowing at least one person in most courtrooms of the city.  If elections go the way we expect, I'll know a full third of the judges alone, including the appelate level.

I've been called several times and usually just ended up sitting in the waiting room until 2PM when they tell everyone who hasn't been picked to go home.  Doesn't bother me too much, I get to sleep in, arrive at court at 8AM, sit around surfing the web or playing video games until 2-3PM and then go home while getting paid by work (plus my $25 or so "good citizen" reward).

Last time I did get brought into the jury room.  There were several people who made up all kinds of stories about how they hated cops and "the man" was out to get them, which is why they should be excused (the lawyers fucked with them for a few rounds making them stay until the very end of the day before dismissing them).  I know I would have been disqualified due to my views as the case was in regard to a misdemeanor assault charge that the alleged victim wasn't even prosecuting based on circumstantial evidence that wasn't really damning in any way.  The maximum penalty for this case was like a $500 fine and community service (not even jail time).  Talk about a waste of the court's (and my) time.  I guess rookie lawyers need something to learn how the system works on though...

What did annoy me was they had several murder cases going on that were expected to last 6-8 weeks.  And financial hardship was NOT allowed as an excuse to get out.  Your company isn't paying you 8 weeks to be here?  Sorry, not good enough.  That annoyed me.

Hey, fuck you. I work for the courts here and I've gotten seated on a jury like 4 goddamn times in the last 4 years now despite knowing the judge, the prosecutor, the defense attorney, and even some of the cops involved by first name.

Remind me to never comitt a crime wherever you live.

No kidding.

I seem to get lucky on the Houston summons -- I've been in school for all but one of them. College for the first set, then I got nabbed about a year after getting my BS, and then since I've started my Master's I've gotten two or three summons.

I just tick off the "I am taking 6 or more hours of college classes" box and go about my business. I don't really care personally -- my company's big enough that it's forced to offer the day with pay, although you're supposed to head into work if half or more of the work day is left when you get out.

I didn't make the jury (didn't even have to answer a question, I was something like third from last of the people for that pool), but judging by the questions it was pretty obviously some sort of parole or bail violation. Afterwards, the judge asked us a bunch of questions about the whole setup -- from the initial letter through parking. Apparently he was on some committee to improve it.

*shrug*. Park and Ride makes it marginally convienent. Since I was the only one on the bus, and it the stop was empty, he dropped me off at the juror's entrance. :)

Thanks for the info Ab.  It's interesting to hear an insider's perspective. 

Oddly, I've never been called to jury duty.

Interesting read. I know I had a friend who got called up despite being a university student, some sort of administrative cock-up I presume. He wore his Eton tie on the grounds that it would garuantee his rejection but it seems neither of the lawyers recognised it and he had to actually point out that he risked his schooling if he was picked. He managed to get out of it.

Barring administrative cock-ups I'm garuanteed not to ever be summoned, signing the official secrets act has its plus points.

I used to intern at the National Center for State Courts, a think tank focused on court issues.  The lack of adequate compensation for jurors is one of things judges and court administrators complain about to them most.  There is strong evidence that paying jurors what they're worth would improve the quality of justice in the system.  You're that much more likely to get smarter jurors who want to be there and try to do their best.

Everybody you run into at the court knows the system is miserable and would love to improve it, but improving things would cost money and take political will that just isn't there in most state governments. 

In other words, if this bothers you, call your state senator! 

Eh  ?  I didn't know being a Uni Student disbarred you.

I was only called once.  They took one look and told me to fuck right off.

Which was nice.  It was a Glasgow Stabbing and the chap looked of the vengeful persuasion.

I got a called in once.  I happened to be in Somalia at the time I got the letter.  I put the biggest shit-eating grin on my face I had and walked into command tent, handed it to the CO and said, "Sir, I have to go home!  My duty to my country calls."

He got a good laugh out of it and told me to get out, he'd take care of it.  In the 15 years since then I haven't seen another one, I assume I am still on a list somewhere as being ineligible.

I think we don't do that stuff around here. We don't trust our peers as much as you do, and taking a look at my peers I happen to agree.  :awesome_for_real:

My sister sat in a jury for a child rape years ago.  She said it was hard and horrible and lots of other h-words.  She was a very good juror though,  looked at, listened to, studied everything and didn't freak out until the case was over. She was traumatised for ages.  I couldn't hack it for all sorts of reasons.  First off, I can't sit in one place for that long.  I can't even make it through a 90 minute film on TV without getting up and taking a move around break.  Also, unless the case was riveting, sometimes I accidentally snore.

You are very odd.

I've gotten a summons three times so far. First time I was in college so I got out of that one. Second time, I got put on a panel but there was some sort of delay so they just had us sitting outside the court for a while. Eventually they told us we could go down to the cafeteria if we wanted but to be back by 11. When we came back, the judge brought us into the courtroom and said that due to someone on the case not showing up, he was giving the case a continuance and we could all go home. I was lame and went back to work. Third time, I sat in the jury selection room until about 3 when they told us we could go. I was not lame this time and went home.

The nice thing was that the jury summons lets you ride the Park & Ride buses to downtown Houston for free. I work in downtown so I would have used my bus pass anyway but this time it was for free.

I always assumed it did, on the grounds that serving on a jury for more than a few weeks during term time could severely screw up your degree but then maybe that's just some weird assumption I made. Could be wrong but fortunately haven't had to test it out.

Yeah.  I like that I can hop on the light rail to get to the courthouses and never get near my car.  Kind of a strange experience in this city.

Same thing in San Diego.  The other half is alway like "Just go up to Vista or San Marcos!" and I'm like "hey, free trip downtown NOT driving the car and finding parking 75% of the way there."  Besides, there are more interesting cases downtown than in the commuter suburbs.  But the amusing part is that the trolley system they use is totally an honor system (no checking of your ticket EVER) so I have a stack of free ride passes with no expiration dates on them from jury duty.