Title: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Trippy on July 11, 2008, 01:57:03 AM Last week NVIDIA announced a huge earnings warning (http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2008/07/08/nvidia-explodes.aspx) which sent their stock tumbling. Since then various sources have been trying to piece together the real story about what's going on. The Inquirer is reporting that all G84 (8600) and G86 (8500) GPUs are defective and not just the laptop ones:
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/07/09/nvidia-g84-g86-bad The Inquirer is a tad, uh, sensationalist, for those not familiar with the site but given the earnings warning there's definitely some bad stuff going on over at NVIDIA at the moment. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Big Gulp on July 11, 2008, 03:52:13 AM but given the earnings warning there's definitely some bad stuff going on over at NVIDIA at the moment. And I think it's only going to get worse. Intel seems to be serious about increasing the amount of cores they can pack into a chipset. Eventually it's got to come down to the fact that we won't need a dedicated GPU running vector-based graphics since we'll have excess cores that can just crunch out rasterized graphics. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: KallDrexx on July 11, 2008, 03:53:58 AM so does this mean my laptop just turned into a release day xbox 360 :(
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Ironwood on July 11, 2008, 03:54:07 AM Ouchie.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Trippy on July 11, 2008, 04:09:28 AM so does this mean my laptop just turned into a release day xbox 360 :( If it has an 8600M or 8500M that's very possible.Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Trippy on July 11, 2008, 04:39:38 AM but given the earnings warning there's definitely some bad stuff going on over at NVIDIA at the moment. And I think it's only going to get worse. Intel seems to be serious about increasing the amount of cores they can pack into a chipset. Eventually it's got to come down to the fact that we won't need a dedicated GPU running vector-based graphics since we'll have excess cores that can just crunch out rasterized graphics.Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: KallDrexx on July 11, 2008, 04:40:11 AM If it has an 8600M or 8500M that's very possible. Yep ti's a 8600M gt. ........yay......... Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Yoru on July 11, 2008, 05:10:33 AM All the current-gen MacBook Pros are running the 8600M too. Fun. Wonder what Apple will do about this...
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Sir T on July 11, 2008, 08:18:49 AM Whats the budget card market like between NVIDIA and ATI? That might be something to watch as well.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Nija on July 11, 2008, 08:42:04 AM ATI's new budget card rapes face.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: HaemishM on July 11, 2008, 08:55:46 AM As in it's total shite, or as in it's the greatest thing since sliced bread?
Rapes face could be interpreted so many ways. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Fabricated on July 11, 2008, 09:13:15 AM I haven't kept up with ATI for a while, how does their new line compared to the 8800/9800/GX series?
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Nevermore on July 11, 2008, 09:21:34 AM Isn't it the story with ATI that their hardware is at least as good, if not better, than comparable NVIDIA cards but the ATI drivers suck all kinds of ass and lots of games have problems with ATI cards?
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Chimpy on July 11, 2008, 09:28:27 AM Isn't it the story with ATI that their hardware is at least as good, if not better, than comparable NVIDIA cards but the ATI drivers suck all kinds of ass and lots of games have problems with ATI cards? That has always been the general consensus. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Big Gulp on July 11, 2008, 09:29:05 AM ATI's new budget card rapes face. Yep. I just picked up the HD4850 the other day for $199 and it crushes. I can run Crysis fully maxed out with zero framerate problems, and I hardly have a great CPU. The only problem with the card was the way they set up the fan; it doesn't do very well on it's automatic settings to cool the GPU. I had to manually set it so I have three different GPU load profiles, on high the fan runs at 100%, medium 60%, and low 30%. I hope to see this fixed up once ATI releases new drivers, but otherwise I have no complaints. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Furiously on July 11, 2008, 10:08:46 AM but given the earnings warning there's definitely some bad stuff going on over at NVIDIA at the moment. And I think it's only going to get worse. Intel seems to be serious about increasing the amount of cores they can pack into a chipset. Eventually it's got to come down to the fact that we won't need a dedicated GPU running vector-based graphics since we'll have excess cores that can just crunch out rasterized graphics. Have you seen Intel's work at real time raytracing? Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Ingmar on July 11, 2008, 10:17:35 AM The wife of one of my co-workers works there, I shall see if I can get any inside dirt.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Nija on July 11, 2008, 10:53:21 AM As in it's total shite, or as in it's the greatest thing since sliced bread? Rapes face could be interpreted so many ways. It's actually really good. What Big Gulp purchased above. That's the card to get these days. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Ingmar on July 11, 2008, 11:01:22 AM So, here's the dirt as I hear it from my contact:
The GPUs have a design flaw, and it really is *all* the G84s and G86s. It isn't a bad production line or one supplier or one set of cards, according to what I'm hearing. This is going to be really, really, really bad for them assuming I'm getting good info. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: schild on July 11, 2008, 11:01:46 AM Oh, wow.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: NiX on July 11, 2008, 11:13:54 AM Wait, does this affect desktop video cards too?
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Ingmar on July 11, 2008, 11:19:13 AM Wait, does this affect desktop video cards too? Yeah, although I don't know specifically which cards. The reason the failure rate is higher on laptops is that it is apparently at least partially heat-related, and laptops tend to run hotter. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: NiX on July 11, 2008, 11:33:40 AM I have a BFG 8600GTS. Uh ohs.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Big Gulp on July 11, 2008, 11:38:05 AM I have a BFG 8600GTS. Uh ohs. Look at it this way, you didn't lose a video card, you gained a class action lawsuit! :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Zar on July 11, 2008, 11:44:20 AM Well fuck me. Just ordered a new laptop from Dell for law school with an 8400GS. I saw this and called to cancel the order and Apu informed me that it had already been manufactured and could not be cancelled, and that I should "call back once it arrives if I want to return it." Then he told me it had an estimated ship date of 7/24. I inquired as to what exactly they were going to do with the laptop for the next 13 days if its already been manufactured, which overloaded his CSR circuits.
At least I got the 3 year warranty, I guess. :drill: Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: HaemishM on July 11, 2008, 11:52:47 AM Fuck. I just bought my wife an 8600, and the new computer at work has an 8400 GS in it. I wonder when they'll both shit the bed.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: KallDrexx on July 11, 2008, 11:54:58 AM Wait, does this affect desktop video cards too? Yeah, although I don't know specifically which cards. The reason the failure rate is higher on laptops is that it is apparently at least partially heat-related, and laptops tend to run hotter.What the inquirer article pretty much said was the defect is caused by hot->cold->hot cycles, which is more prevalent in laptops than desktops (since laptops tend to be turned on and off more often), which is why the failure rates from desktops are less. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: schild on July 11, 2008, 12:16:40 PM So, my 8600GTS would be effected? This would explain SO MUCH about my problems with that card.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: fuser on July 11, 2008, 12:25:10 PM The Inquirer is a tad, uh, sensationalist, for those not familiar with the site but given the earnings warning there's definitely some bad stuff going on over at NVIDIA at the moment. AMD is getting pounded left right and center as of late. It's like a train outta control the past year/two and I hope they can even survive just to keep ATI going in some way. "Advanced Micro Devices Inc. will take an $880 million writedown on the value of its handheld and digital television units in the second quarter, plus several other charges, the chipmaker said in a regulatory filing Friday." source (http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/11/technology/amd_writedown.ap/?postversion=2008071109) What the inquirer article pretty much said was the defect is caused by hot->cold->hot cycles, which is more prevalent in laptops than desktops (since laptops tend to be turned on and off more often), which is why the failure rates from desktops are less. This is going to be the issue, and I'm sure the cycle of medium -> hot (fan speed up) -> medium cooling of laptop video cards is also killing it. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: rattran on July 11, 2008, 12:28:44 PM Amd may be taking a pounding, but the 4870 kicks the shit out of the 9800gtx in everything I've thrown at it. More fps at higher settings, and prettier. As everyone else did, I had to manually turn the fan up, but at 60% it's still quieter than the 9800gtx, and cooler. The drivers seem to work just fine.
Set it to 100% just to see how loud it was, and it was like a jet engine. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Big Gulp on July 11, 2008, 12:37:47 PM Set it to 100% just to see how loud it was, and it was like a jet engine. Heh. No kidding. The annoying thing is, I'm now paranoid about heat with this card. Initially plugging it in and noticing that you're running at 78 degrees centigrade with no load will do that to you. Consequently, if it's an eye candy game like Crysis or COD4 I run that bitch at 100% and just turn up the sound to drown out that fan. I'm actually thinking about buying an aftermarket cooling solution for my video card. This is something I never would have even considered in the past. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: fuser on July 11, 2008, 12:52:03 PM Amd may be taking a pounding, but the 4870 kicks the shit out of the 9800gtx in everything I've thrown at it. Indeed I'd seriously look at going to it the price/performance is fantastic! Not to mention I hate NVIDIA's UMAP (http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTUxOSwsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0). Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: NiX on July 11, 2008, 01:59:02 PM Look at it this way, you didn't lose a video card, you gained a class action lawsuit! :awesome_for_real: If it turns out that way, it won't be the first time I've had a product that was part of one.Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: rattran on July 11, 2008, 02:23:47 PM I'm actually thinking about buying an aftermarket cooling solution for my video card. This is something I never would have even considered in the past. I did that for my 8800gt, worked fine. But the 4870 runs at no more than 60C under heavy load with the fan set to 60% minimum, and that's only in Crysis. I'd fire up a heat monitoring program and track what temps yours gets to. And I think most/all the 4850s vent into the case, so make sure you've got enough airflow to get the heat away. No good having the fan set high if it just turns the whole case into an easy bake oven. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Yoshimaru on July 11, 2008, 02:48:52 PM Damn, at least now we get answers. I've had a problem with my 8600M GT in my latptop ever since I bought it... Had it replaced once but still does the same thing... Looks like I'm royally fucked.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Montague on July 11, 2008, 03:07:08 PM So I'm safe with the 8800 GTS I got three months ago?
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: WayAbvPar on July 11, 2008, 03:07:45 PM Look at it this way, you didn't lose a video card, you gained a class action lawsuit! :awesome_for_real: If it turns out that way, it won't be the first time I've had a product that was part of one.Sounds like someone needs a Consumer Reports subscription :-P Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Jimbo on July 11, 2008, 03:29:54 PM Grrr...
I got almost everything to upgrade the two computers, from an Abit IX38 Quad GT, 4 gigs of cosair mem, E8400 3.0 Intel Duo Processor, Asus sound card, window vista x64, and the DVD's and stuff, but haven't bought the two video cards. I was planing on either of these two: BFG (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143137) or XFX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150292) video cards. But then I was reading reviews of how ATI cards are tearing it up, so what do you all think of PowerColor, Gigabyte, HIS, and Sapphire? After reading on Tom's hardware, I really like the idea of using ATI over Nvidia this time, but how are driver support? Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: NiX on July 11, 2008, 03:30:49 PM Sounds like someone needs a Consumer Reports subscription :-P I never thought my iPod Mini would crap out like it did in terms of battery life. Turns out I wasn't the only one unhappy about it.Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Trippy on July 11, 2008, 06:15:24 PM So I'm safe with the 8800 GTS I got three months ago? As far as we know at this point, yes.Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Margalis on July 11, 2008, 07:28:47 PM And I think it's only going to get worse. Intel seems to be serious about increasing the amount of cores they can pack into a chipset. Eventually it's got to come down to the fact that we won't need a dedicated GPU running vector-based graphics since we'll have excess cores that can just crunch out rasterized graphics. These things tend to swing back and forth but given how ultra-specialized graphics cards have become I can't see general CPUs encroaching on that any time soon. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Engels on July 11, 2008, 07:30:02 PM I'm actually thinking about buying an aftermarket cooling solution for my video card. This is something I never would have even considered in the past. I did that for my 8800gt, worked fine. But the 4870 runs at no more than 60C under heavy load with the fan set to 60% minimum, and that's only in Crysis. I'd fire up a heat monitoring program and track what temps yours gets to. And I think most/all the 4850s vent into the case, so make sure you've got enough airflow to get the heat away. No good having the fan set high if it just turns the whole case into an easy bake oven. I've been experiencing some pretty out of whack temps on my 8800gt, myself, playing AoC. Starts out fine at idle of about 64 or so, but then skyrockets up. Only with the fan at 50% with an additional PCI cooler strapped under neath can I keep the card's temps below 90 degrees. Can anyone recommend a good aftermarket GPU cooler for an 8800gt? Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: fuser on July 11, 2008, 07:52:41 PM Can anyone recommend a good aftermarket GPU cooler for an 8800gt? Accelero S1 Rev. 2 (http://www.arctic-cooling.com/vga2.php?idx=147) supports all new ATI cards too :drill: HardOCP (http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ1OSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==) review where prices are ~25$ Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Kitsune on July 11, 2008, 10:17:30 PM What the inquirer article pretty much said was the defect is caused by hot->cold->hot cycles, which is more prevalent in laptops than desktops (since laptops tend to be turned on and off more often), which is why the failure rates from desktops are less. The words you're looking for are 'metal fatigue'. It's the specter behind any and all thermal failures short of actually bursting into flame. So the bare fact is that those chips heat up more than they were built to tolerate. The metal expands when it heats so much, contracts when it cools, and can only take but so much of the back and forth wiggling before *snap* goes a circuit. It's not just any on/off cycle involved, there's the simple fact that most laptops don't have shit for cooling; certainly not a big dedicated heat sink/fan sitting on the GPU. They're probably using crappy heat pipes hooked to the CPU's heat sink with one little fan trying to serve the entire computer, and the lack of space inside the laptop turns it into an oven. Desktop video cards are given vastly superior cooling, so I doubt many of the desktop cards will be failing. Those that do will likely be cards that some idiots overclocked to get that precious extra 0.83 FPS. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Engels on July 11, 2008, 10:32:22 PM Thanks for the linkeage, fuser. I think after reading those reviews, I'll probably end up getting the trusty Zalman VF-900. Well rounded scores and the lowest noise level at high speed.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Sir T on July 12, 2008, 01:29:22 AM Glad I read this thread. i've been thinking of getting a budget card and I usually go with Nvidia. I guess its time to dump the Nvidia drivers... :drill:
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Hawkbit on July 12, 2008, 04:43:54 PM I could swear I was reading a Nvidia statement a month or two ago that said something like: lalalala Intel is going under because in the near future all Nvidia products are going to be gpu/cpus that plug directly into MBs, which will inevitably lead to Nvidia selling all-in-one console-type computers. Or something like that. Without as much asshatery.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: sinij on July 12, 2008, 10:23:03 PM I have slot fan sitting next to my video card, it reduces card temperature by 2-5C. I also moved HDD to upper and lower position, leaving large gap for chassis fan to move air toward video card.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: sinij on July 12, 2008, 10:24:24 PM I got almost everything to downgrade the two computers, from an Abit IX38 Quad GT, 4 gigs of cosair mem, E8400 3.0 Intel Duo Processor, Asus sound card, window vista x64, and the DVD's and stuff Don't do it. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Tale on July 13, 2008, 01:58:58 AM The words you're looking for are 'metal fatigue'. It's the specter behind any and all thermal failures short of actually bursting into flame. So the bare fact is that those chips heat up more than they were built to tolerate. The metal expands when it heats so much, contracts when it cools, and can only take but so much of the back and forth wiggling before *snap* goes a circuit. It's not just any on/off cycle involved, there's the simple fact that most laptops don't have shit for cooling; certainly not a big dedicated heat sink/fan sitting on the GPU. They're probably using crappy heat pipes hooked to the CPU's heat sink with one little fan trying to serve the entire computer, and the lack of space inside the laptop turns it into an oven. Desktop video cards are given vastly superior cooling, so I doubt many of the desktop cards will be failing. Those that do will likely be cards that some idiots overclocked to get that precious extra 0.83 FPS. I used to have a graphics card that ran too hot and was unstable. I stabilised it by underclocking it. Could that be the short-term solution for users of affected NVidia cards? Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Tale on July 13, 2008, 02:05:07 AM So I'm safe with the 8800 GTS I got three months ago? My 8800 GTS 320Mb is the most stable, reliable video card I've ever owned. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Trippy on July 13, 2008, 02:11:30 AM I used to have a graphics card that ran too hot and was unstable. I stabilised it by underclocking it. Could that be the short-term solution for users of affected NVidia cards? Maybe. NVIDIA's solution to the problem is to release a driver update to laptop manufacturers that kicks in the system fans earlier. Underclocking the GPU may lower the temps enough to do the same thing.Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: eldaec on July 13, 2008, 02:12:14 AM I could swear I was reading a Nvidia statement a month or two ago that said something like: lalalala Intel is going under because in the near future all Nvidia products are going to be gpu/cpus that plug directly into MBs, which will inevitably lead to Nvidia selling all-in-one console-type computers. A month or two ago I was also reading a story about unicorns, rainbows, and wishes... to my niece. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Bungee on July 13, 2008, 02:57:33 AM Ask Schild about the 8800gt versus the 9800gtx sometime :P The ATI 4850 beats them both. For less money ;) But it's ATI... Never again. :grin: Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: sinij on July 13, 2008, 09:37:29 AM ATI's video cards might give out BJs while you play and cure cancer... I still won't buy them due to bad experiences I had with ATI cards.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Strazos on July 13, 2008, 09:49:42 AM I've had 3 ATI cards die on me in a year-and a half timespan. In all three, the fan bearings crapped out.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Engels on July 13, 2008, 09:54:00 AM That might have a lot more to do with which manufacturer you used rather than ATI. I imagine that what cooling parts are used is left up to the manufacturer, and that ATI only has vague guidelines for a required cooling system.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Fabricated on July 13, 2008, 09:55:14 AM I had a 9800XT back in the day and it was a kickass card. The problem is that it took like 6-7 driver releases for all of my games to work.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Strazos on July 13, 2008, 09:55:55 AM That might have a lot more to do with which manufacturer you used rather than ATI. I imagine that what cooling parts are used is left up to the manufacturer, and that ATI only has vague guidelines for a required cooling system. Just the ATi-Branded ones, not some 3rd party thing. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Miasma on July 13, 2008, 09:56:03 AM I'm also in the camp that doesn't trust ATI due to past experience. I'm not one of these people who love and defend a particular graphics card manufacturer but until I hear that ATI's problems with drivers, product quality, their awful support and website have all been fixed I won't be buying another one of their cards. It will take a good year of people saying "they don't suck anymore" before I will hop on this pendulum which is apparently swinging back to ATI.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Selby on July 13, 2008, 10:04:05 AM Am I the only one who has never lost a video card from any manufacturer due to hardware failure? All of the ATI hate...
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Murgos on July 13, 2008, 10:37:50 AM Am I the only one who has never lost a video card from any manufacturer due to hardware failure? All of the ATI hate... No, I've had a uniformly good experience with ATI cards. They usually, in my experience, were more performance for a lower price than NVidia and I've never really had any serious problems with drivers. That said I am running an NVidia card now because ATI just kind of disappeared for the last few competitive cycles. I'm glad to see that they are back. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Big Gulp on July 13, 2008, 12:05:14 PM Am I the only one who has never lost a video card from any manufacturer due to hardware failure? All of the ATI hate... One time for me, and that was an nVidia card. Of course, I have no real bias towards any video card. For the most part they've all done the job they were designed for. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Tale on July 13, 2008, 01:58:21 PM I had a 9800XT back in the day and it was a kickass card. The problem is that it took like 6-7 driver releases for all of my games to work. I have avoided ATI cards since having a 9600XT. It was often unstable (freezing, blue screens) and yes, the drivers were never right. Also, the overdrive or whatever the XT function was called, was a recipe for more instability, not the extra speed promised. So I had to run it as a plain old 9600 with that switched off. It was also weak in Windows - needed to mess with the colour settings to have things look acceptable, and video playback was never quite as smooth as it should have been. To my eye, the nVidia cards I've owned have been perfect in Windows. After that I had an nVidia 6800GS which was great. But I spilt red wine into my PC and killed it, so I used the ATI card again temporarily before getting my 8800GTS. Same ATI problems again, even in a new system. It reminded me of my old ATI Mach64 back in the 2D 1990s which had a similar range of problems. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: HaemishM on July 13, 2008, 02:01:17 PM I had an ATI 9600 for years, and just now replaced it. I've had good luck with ATI. The worst cards I ever had were the Nvidia 6200 and the Nvidia GeForce 4 MX, which was total shit.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Cheddar on July 13, 2008, 08:44:26 PM Am I the only one who has never lost a video card from any manufacturer due to hardware failure? All of the ATI hate... No, I've had a uniformly good experience with ATI cards. They usually, in my experience, were more performance for a lower price than NVidia and I've never really had any serious problems with drivers. That said I am running an NVidia card now because ATI just kind of disappeared for the last few competitive cycles. I'm glad to see that they are back. Word for word my exact experience. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Alkiera on July 14, 2008, 02:34:56 PM I have switched back and forth; had a hardware failure with a ATI card (9600 Pro) from a 3rd party manufacturer, went with an nVidia 8800 GTS 640MB to replace it. The 8800 just doesn't quit. It's quiet, and even with an older CPU, runs AoC on high settings at a decent framerate.
Generally nVidia has fewer problems because of the 'Way it's Meant To Be Played' program, which seems to bribe developers into only testing on their hardware, so wacky crap happens on ATI cards. Driver quality is kinda up in the air for both companies, nVidia just does a better job of working with dev houses. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: TripleDES on July 14, 2008, 03:20:25 PM Due to choice of operating system, I'm practically locked onto NVidia. Their *nix drivers are actually pretty decent. So I'm not switching unless ATi gets their act together or NVidia goes bankrupt.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Ironwood on July 15, 2008, 12:40:59 AM Not long to go then ?
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Trippy on July 15, 2008, 12:53:05 AM Due to choice of operating system, I'm practically locked onto NVidia. Their *nix drivers are actually pretty decent. So I'm not switching unless ATi gets their act together or NVidia goes bankrupt. If this is Linux you are talking about see here:http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_evolution&num=1 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ati_radeonhd_4870&num=1 Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Salamok on July 18, 2008, 10:47:47 AM nVidia in denial?
http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/07/16/nvidia.denies.gpu.rumor/ (http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/07/16/nvidia.denies.gpu.rumor/) can still see some class action happening if they down clock all the laptops. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: CharlieMopps on July 27, 2008, 10:07:26 AM I can agree with the above posts about the ATI HD4850
The card is incredible... got mine for $180 and it's on par with a $500 Nvidia. Some people are even finding them on sale for $150 I can't even imagine how Nvidia is going to compete with that. The cards do run seriously hot though. And they've made them single PCI slot cards, so they do not vent out the back of the case. The result? My cards so hot, I literally can't touch it. My case temps went up 20 degrees F after installing it! I had to buy a PCI slot cooler to pull heat off of it and vent it out of my case. The card is acutally making me consider water cooling. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Lantyssa on July 27, 2008, 05:45:39 PM I can agree with the above posts about the ATI HD4850 So, your $180 card will cost a lot more than $180, damages your components with extreme heat, takes more work to outfit your rig with, and requires a drastic cooling solution?The card is incredible... got mine for $180 and it's on par with a $500 Nvidia. Some people are even finding them on sale for $150 I can't even imagine how Nvidia is going to compete with that. The cards do run seriously hot though. And they've made them single PCI slot cards, so they do not vent out the back of the case. The result? My cards so hot, I literally can't touch it. My case temps went up 20 degrees F after installing it! I had to buy a PCI slot cooler to pull heat off of it and vent it out of my case. The card is acutally making me consider water cooling. It's the fuckin' shit, man! Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 28, 2008, 06:18:50 AM Great, right when i jump on the 8800 bandwagon...there is this. I used ATI for years and NVER had an issue. I still have my Radion 9700 pro 128!
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: TripleDES on July 28, 2008, 06:26:33 AM The overhauled 8800 chips aren't affected. It's the lesser variants that are.
Due to choice of operating system, I'm practically locked onto NVidia. Their *nix drivers are actually pretty decent. So I'm not switching unless ATi gets their act together or NVidia goes bankrupt. If this is Linux you are talking about see here:http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_evolution&num=1 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ati_radeonhd_4870&num=1 Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: schild on July 28, 2008, 06:34:11 AM Why do I have a feeling they're going to announce that the 8800 series is flawed also. The mind reels.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: CharlieMopps on July 28, 2008, 06:38:40 AM Why do I have a feeling they're going to announce that the 8800 series is flawed also. The mind reels. I don't know about that... there are a lot of people out there OC the heck out of 8800's... I'd think we'd have heard something by now. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Big Gulp on July 29, 2008, 02:03:56 AM So, your $180 card will cost a lot more than $180, damages your components with extreme heat, takes more work to outfit your rig with, and requires a drastic cooling solution? It's the fuckin' shit, man! Nah, just get a Duo Orb (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106112) and you should be fine. Consider it adding the cooling that the card should have had to begin with. :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: CharlieMopps on July 29, 2008, 05:59:57 AM So, your $180 card will cost a lot more than $180, damages your components with extreme heat, takes more work to outfit your rig with, and requires a drastic cooling solution? It's the fuckin' shit, man! Nah, just get a Duo Orb (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106112) and you should be fine. Consider it adding the cooling that the card should have had to begin with. :awesome_for_real: Anything that vents inside the case is worthless to me. I need something that exhausts out the back. I don't want to blow $200 but its looking more and more like I'm going to gave to switch to water blocks. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Tale on July 29, 2008, 06:29:27 AM I repeat ...
My 8800 GTS 320Mb is the most stable, reliable video card I've ever owned. ... in 15 years of video cards, during 7 of which I was working for a PC magazine. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Lantyssa on July 29, 2008, 07:53:23 AM Your honor, the defense rests.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: CharlieMopps on July 29, 2008, 08:46:04 AM I repeat ... My 8800 GTS 320Mb is the most stable, reliable video card I've ever owned. ... in 15 years of video cards, during 7 of which I was working for a PC magazine. No offense but... I think that would make you less qualified to provide an opinion on the subject. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: rattran on July 29, 2008, 11:08:20 AM So, now Nvidia has now officially released the 9800gt, which is a renamed 8800gt, which was a reused name from a previous card. And the 9500gt, which is a neutered 9600gt.
They're reminding me of the worst ATI naming days. Keep your numbers/names simple, confusion is not a good thing. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Salamok on July 29, 2008, 11:32:12 AM So, your $180 card will cost a lot more than $180, damages your components with extreme heat, takes more work to outfit your rig with, and requires a drastic cooling solution? It's the fuckin' shit, man! Nah, just get a Duo Orb (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106112) and you should be fine. Consider it adding the cooling that the card should have had to begin with. :awesome_for_real: Anything that vents inside the case is worthless to me. I need something that exhausts out the back. I don't want to blow $200 but its looking more and more like I'm going to gave to switch to water blocks. seems like it would be fairly easy to build your own cowl fan combo that vented out of the slot next to the vid card... $10 for some plastic and a fan? Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Lantyssa on July 29, 2008, 12:23:55 PM At least you can save on your heating bills in winter.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Tale on July 29, 2008, 03:21:56 PM No offense but... I think that would make you less qualified to provide an opinion on the subject. Yeah, I didn't enjoy it, I'm no expert and my opinion is only as a consumer. Just came into contact with more video cards than usual back then. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Trippy on July 29, 2008, 03:44:08 PM So, now Nvidia has now officially released the 9800gt, which is a renamed 8800gt, which was a reused name from a previous card. And the 9500gt, which is a neutered 9600gt. NVIDIA did the same thing way back during the GeForce 4 days when they renamed the GeForce 2 MX the GeForce 4 MX.They're reminding me of the worst ATI naming days. Keep your numbers/names simple, confusion is not a good thing. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: fuser on August 12, 2008, 05:08:51 PM Necroing this thread!
Bigger news the 'inq (ok take this with a salt rock), Quote It seems that four board partners are seeing G92 and G94 chips going bad in the field at high rates http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/08/12/nvidia-g92s-g94-reportedlyQuote Well, the G92 chip is used in the 8800GT, 8800GTS, 8800GS, several mobile flavours of 8800, most of the 9800 suffixes, and a few 9600 variants just to confuse buyers. The G94 is basically only the 9600GT. Huzza! :uhrr: Reading this while trying to trouble shoot a friends pc with an 8800GT thats completely shutting down after a period of usage... jeeeeez Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: rattran on August 12, 2008, 05:17:37 PM It's only Charlie at he Inq reporting it at this point. No reason to get your knickers in a twist over it yet.
I suspect a lot of the recent nvidia stability problems are driver related. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Trippy on August 29, 2008, 01:23:58 PM Necroing this thread! Follow up: Nvidia 55nm parts are bad too (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/08/28/nvidia-55nm-parts-bad)Bigger news the 'inq (ok take this with a salt rock), Quote It seems that four board partners are seeing G92 and G94 chips going bad in the field at high rates http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/08/12/nvidia-g92s-g94-reportedlyQuote Well, the G92 chip is used in the 8800GT, 8800GTS, 8800GS, several mobile flavours of 8800, most of the 9800 suffixes, and a few 9600 variants just to confuse buyers. The G94 is basically only the 9600GT. Huzza! :uhrr: Reading this while trying to trouble shoot a friends pc with an 8800GT thats completely shutting down after a period of usage... jeeeeez Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Sky on August 29, 2008, 01:31:00 PM Oh look, Inq bashing nvidia :oh_i_see:
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: fuser on September 10, 2008, 07:37:02 AM So the class action lawsuit is started....
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9114399&source=rss_news50 "A lawsuit filed in a California court on Tuesday alleged Nvidia violated U.S. securities laws and concealed the existence of a serious defect in its graphics-chip line for at least eight months "in a series of false and misleading statements made to the investing public." The lawsuit charged that Nvidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang and CFO Marvin Burkett knew as early as November 2007 about a flaw that exists in the packaging used with some of the company's graphics chips that caused them to fail at unusually high rates." Edit: note its a stockholder over the disclosure and how the stock went in the shitter because of it NVDA (http://finance.google.ca/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=1&chdet=1215633600000&chddm=18004&q=NASDAQ:NVDA&ntsp=0) Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Yegolev on September 10, 2008, 11:58:04 AM Ha, that's a shitty stock alright. Dropped about 66% from 52 weeks ago.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Ingmar on September 10, 2008, 12:01:37 PM My mystery source tells me the mobile chip issue isn't as bad as the prior one with desktop cards. Nobody's recalled anything yet, and the Geforce 9 mobile chips aren't affected at all.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Salamok on September 10, 2008, 03:18:50 PM Seems like all the newer model Dell laptops have switched to ATI (as opposed to mostly being nVidia 9 months ago).
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: fuser on September 10, 2008, 07:08:57 PM My mystery source tells me the mobile chip issue isn't as bad as the prior one with desktop cards. Nobody's recalled anything yet, and the Geforce 9 mobile chips aren't affected at all. Whats curious is nvidia stated(hell its filed to the SEC) they wrote off $200mil for warranty work on the mobile ones... Edit: SEC filing (http://google.brand.edgar-online.com/DisplayFiling.aspx?TabIndex=2&FilingID=6028900&companyid=4967&ppu=%252fdefault.aspx%253fsym%253dNVDA) from the filing Quote On July 2, 2008, NVIDIA Corporation stated that it would take a $150 million to $200 million charge against cost of revenue to cover anticipated customer warranty, repair, return, replacement and other consequential costs and expenses arising from a weak die/packaging material set in certain versions of our previous generation MCP and GPU products used in notebook systems. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Trippy on October 14, 2008, 06:03:14 AM NVIDIA GPU problems spreading to desktop versions:
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/230097/has-nvidia-problem-hit-hp-desktops.html Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Yoru on October 14, 2008, 06:34:38 AM I think this problem has recently started manifesting itself on my desktop, which I built about a year ago with a 8800GT. Most of the time when I boot, after 30-90 seconds, the display output stream will shut off (monitor says "no signal" and enters power-saving mode) and the computer itself will refuse to respond to any commands short of hitting the soft-reset switch. After one reset, it works fine until I power down, at which point the issue will generally manifest again on the next boot.
I'm guessing shipping the thing overseas helped loosen the die. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Prospero on October 14, 2008, 08:32:29 AM My Mac Pro at work got nailed. We've had 4 others go down at work with the same problem. Any word on if they've fixed the problem, or are they still shipping fragile cards?
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Trippy on October 14, 2008, 09:47:09 AM Probably. Apple is fixing them for free even if the machine is out of warrenty, however.
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2377 Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Morfiend on October 14, 2008, 10:56:37 AM I think this problem has recently started manifesting itself on my desktop, which I built about a year ago with a 8800GT. Most of the time when I boot, after 30-90 seconds, the display output stream will shut off (monitor says "no signal" and enters power-saving mode) and the computer itself will refuse to respond to any commands short of hitting the soft-reset switch. After one reset, it works fine until I power down, at which point the issue will generally manifest again on the next boot. I'm guessing shipping the thing overseas helped loosen the die. Humm, I have had this same exact problem with my 8800GTX card. I could never figure out what it was. It would just some times hang at a black screen right before it should of booted Windows. Although, it seems to happen less since I installed Vista. Before it was about 1 in 3 system starts. Now its about 1 in 10. Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: Yoru on October 14, 2008, 01:10:46 PM Mine's probably 3 out of 4 or more, and I'm running Vista x64. I only boot the thing up every couple days, so I figure I can let it limp along until the card gives out, then replace it. Since the machine runs fine after a reboot, it's more of an annoyance and sign of impending doom than anything else.
Title: Re: NVIDIA meltdown in progress Post by: UnSub on October 14, 2008, 08:46:46 PM I think this problem has recently started manifesting itself on my desktop, which I built about a year ago with a 8800GT. Most of the time when I boot, after 30-90 seconds, the display output stream will shut off (monitor says "no signal" and enters power-saving mode) and the computer itself will refuse to respond to any commands short of hitting the soft-reset switch. After one reset, it works fine until I power down, at which point the issue will generally manifest again on the next boot. I'm guessing shipping the thing overseas helped loosen the die. This is pretty similar to what I get on my NVIDIA machine (there's about a 50% chance of the screen going black during my first session of a day, but all is fine after the reboot), but I've got 2x7900 cards installed. So I didn't think this chip set problem impacted on me and I just had a crappy computer. |