f13.net

7 weeks.

March 25th - May 12th, exactly 7 weeks.
Mo xx 25 26 27 28 29 30 Sun
Mo 31 01 02 03 04 05 06 Sun
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Mo 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Sun
Mo 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 Sun
Mo 28 29 30 01 02 03 04 Sun
Mo 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 Sun
Mo 12 Refeed ----------> Sun
End.

According to past experience, I should hit between 180 and 190. And be the same size I was in ohhhh, 8th, 9th 10th grade, somewhere about there. Between a 30 and 32 pant size. And have to rebuy all my clothes FOR A SECOND TIME.

But I'm OK with that. Wish me luck.

Also, this post is to really warn you that I'm going to be a fucking big asshole for about 2 weeks.

And by big, I mean bigger than normal.

Carry on.

Edit: For those of you that don't know, between November of last year and February of this year, I dropped about 80 lbs doing a very, very exact diet. To the gram. I've slightly modified it for maximum weight loss, and will be aiming to cut another 35-45 lbs over the next 7 weeks. Which is to say, in the course of 8 months, I will have lost roughly 120lbs. I AM AMERICA, AND YOU CAN TOO.

I'ev never been 180 in my life. What's it like? :grin:

I haven't been since puberty, so, frankly... I have no fucking clue. We'll see what happens. I kinda "grew up" in 7th grade and hit about 170-180 in 8th grade. By the end of 10th grade (granted, it was mostly muscle from intense soccer workouts) I was about 210lbs. Which is about 20-25 lbs (depending on day, hour etc) less than I am now.

I'm 175 now, down from 200. So, I salute you.

One piece of advice though. Turn off the fucking TV after 11. Fast food places do nothing but pump ads in at those hours and make you hate life.

I haven't eaten fast food (short of a chipotle burrito as a last hurrah tonight) since last October.

Fast food doesn't phase me. I'm the dieting equivalent of a Spartan Warrior.

Fast food is a disgusting blight on the culinary landscape. Doesn't matter if you're trying to lose weight or not, you're way better off not eating that shit. I haven't touched it since '99 or so.

You know what, I'll put my cards on the table. Here's some pictures from before:


Right now I flutter between 228 and 240. Seriously, radical differences every day. Water retention or something. Whatever, I'll work it out after this go round in the diet. At this very moment I weigh 236.

Oh, if you want details on the diet, PM me. A few other people are doing it to varying degrees of success on the board, though they haven't said anything publically. I happen to do a hardcore version of it without any optional foods like fruit, crackers, and other things. Like really hardcore. To give you an idea, my diet will consist of:

Vitamins
Tofu
Egg
Mushroom
Lettuce
Green Peppers
Cucumber
and Fat Free Disgusting Cheese

I have it down to more than a science for maximum weight loss as I improvised a bit towards the end.

I make supermodels look like amateurs and don't vomit along the way.

I vary between 115 and 120. Malnutrition? Just a little.

Aren't you like 5 foot nothing and pure bone though?

Losing 80 pounds over 3 months is impressive. You should write a diet book.

I would, if this were my diet.

Who cares? Talk about the diet and fill it with a lot of fluff about maintaining your resolve. Throw in your line about being a Spartan Warrior of Dieting. It's not like diet contents are copyrighted.

Most people who try diets don't have your success. Most diets are pretty much the same (or fall into a few broad categories), the main thing is sticking to them, something you've been able to do.

I'm dead serious.

You know, I'll say this:

Dieting is probably the single hardest thing I've ever done. To be perfectly fair, I can't say my life has been filled with hardships despite being through some pretty wack shit, but this, this sort of self-inflicted craziness - the kind of thing you can stop any time and revert back to comfort - is a slow burn. It wears you down. It makes you angry, tired, and just a generally short fuse that you simply to not want to fuck with. The next 2 weeks, I am going to be a psychotic motherfucker that would make the people around here who quit smoking look like pussycats. That'll peak in about 72 hours. I'm going to try not to post later this week, for reals. Unless it's right after lunch. I may chronicle the weight loss though as motivation - right here in this thread.

80 pounds in three months is amazing and has to be damn satisfying.

/annoying nitpick  :geezer:
Two things:
1. I'd be surprised if you maintain that rate of weight loss.  Another 50 lbs in 2 months might be a little unrealistic.  It always slows down as you go along.

2. I hope you're doing some kind of exercise along with the diet (but given your results I'd expect that you are) - otherwise that weight is just going to creep back up when you're done, as your metabolism won't really have changed. 

Do you match your diet with an exercise regime? To me one without the other seems a tad pointless.

Ya, I've been 'dieting' for the last 2 months and dropped about 20lbs.  But I've been working out too.  I just eat light 5-6 times a day during the week and eat what I want on the weekends.

You're doing great Schild. You should be proud.

I like what you've done with your face, too.  It's fancy.

That's pretty fucking impressive man. I've never really tried dieting, but even just trying to eat better and cut back portions is hard enough.

5+ lbs a week seems a tad excessive!  You be careful, young man.

 :grin:

I've been trying to lose like 3 pounds forever. I'm in a really bad cycle now of sleeping all day, staying up all night, eating big meals and being really lethargic in general. I don't think I've ever lost more than a pound or two in my life and my weight hasn't changed by more than a few pounds either way in 10 years. Losing that much weight is crazy to me.

THREE pounds????  Geez.  So trim your nose hair or sommat.  That should do it, fatty.

Fatty? I'm merely big-boned!

I also don't know what it's like to be 180lbs, but from the other end of the scale.

Try as I might, I've never gone higher than 160.  However, I was about 140 a couple years ago, started going to the gym and got a real diet and put on 20 pounds of actual muscle (which I'd never had before), I got lazy and lost about 10 of that, but I'm doing the same thing again starting in the next couple weeks.  My goal is 175.  So here's hoping for both of us.

I'd be interested in hearing what kinds of exercise people are doing while losing weight.  I've been watching calories, cut back on beer, and have tried to walk or jog with the dog a few times during the week.  Not seeing much if any loss (currently 190 would like to lose 30 or so, stupid beer gut).

I'm curious about how much exercise I'd need to do while keeping calorie intake at around 1500 per day to lose me some.  Maybe I should start doing daily DDR.

And nice work schild, that is impressive.

DDR is great for weight loss.  I had pretty steady weight gain through college due to poor eating habits until I started playing DDR each day between classes.  I ended up dropping about five pounds over the course of a semester without changing anything else.

Unfortunately I'm now nowhere near a good arcade and I've got bad knees to boot.   :cry2:

Our trainer says to get your heart rate to 160, and leave it there for an hour. Every day. (This is all cardio).

Getting to 160 is the hard part, pretty easy to keep it there.

*And* watch your calorie intake. Once you are at your weight, you can stop killing yourself every day, and just watch calorie intake with some mediocre exercise. Adding strength training would speed this up, but also make you gain muscle weight.

5'6" and not pure bone. Just enough to give you paper cuts.

Sort of related:

Some time last year I remember reading some blog from some guy (VAGUE) and he got super cut from being super fat in like a year, and detailed in crazy detail everything he did.

Anyone know what I"m talking about?  I'm just curious.

Really, atm, I'm just trying to drop like 15-20 more pounds through old fashioned running/pushups/situps/low carb-high protein tasty foods.

 In the last couple of years, I had a couple things have pretty profoundly affects on my "lifestyle":
1)  Quit smoking - self explanatory.  Nicoteen is a natural diuretic, as well as an appetite depressant.
2)  Started my own business, and as such was entertaining prospective clients and doing a good bit of travelling.  Basically, eating crap food and drinking a good bit of alcohol.
3)  Wife got pregnant - she would get hungry, I would eat as well.  I called it 'sympathy weight'  :ye_gods:
4)  Entered my early/mid 30's - metabolism slowed even more  :uhrr:
5)  Enter newborn baby boy - between work and family, I had zero time for 'me' time.

I followed Schild's diet thing for a couple weeks, and also hit the weights and started back running and playing tennis.  During that first couple of weeks, the weight poured off.  I went from 220 to 190 rather quickly.  I got off the diet, kept working out, and assumed a different diet.  Dropped the last 15 or so pounds I wanted to lose to get down to my 'feel good fighting weight' of 175.  Diet now consists of no fried foods, no bread/breaded food, nothing/little as possible enriched/processed.  No rice/pasta.  No sugar whatsoever.  Everything I eat now is grilled, raw, steamed.  I call it my 'natural' diet.  Basically, if I can't kill it and eat it, or pull it straight from a garden and eat it, I don't.  We do all our shopping at the organic places, which is a little more expensive, but it's worth it.  My wife weighed about 125 lbs before she got pregnant, got up to about 190 lbs right before Graham was born, and is now back down to about 135 lbs.  She eats the same diet as I do, but has started teaching gymnastics and acrobatic dance again, as well as (finally) making use of the jogging stroller.

Feels really, really good.  I've got my flexibility back, got my golf swing back.  Knees and back no longer hurt.  I dont have to use my CPAP machine anymore (I developed a nasty case of sleep apnea with my weight gain over the last 5 years, which caused me to gain MORE weight).  Play some pickup basketball with some of the teenagers in my neighborhood without feeling like I'm dying afterwards.  

I *personally* favor working out with dumbbells, and rapidly alternating opposing muscle groups, with no rest between.  I really have fallen in love with the medicine ball for core/midsection movements.  I have to be very careful with weigh training as I tend to bulk up really fast.  I have to really work on my flexibility, as my body type is more power than speed, though I'm not what you would term as slow.  To counteract the bulk, I work with comparatively light weight in my upper body, while working my legs normally.  I love working lower body, always have.  My biggest weakness is flexibility. 

So, depending on your body type, it's hard to go wrong with targeting the major muscle groups the hardest (pecs, shoulders, back, ass, legs).  All of which you can work with dumbbells and a bench.  Learn to work with a medicine ball as well.  You can get a great workout with just push ups, sit ups (if done correctly), lunges, and a chair and a wall (isometrics)

I'd also highly recommend joining a boxing gym.  That will shape you up, and shape you up FAST.

I'm in the same boat. I'm 5'8 or so and weighed 130lbs in Highschool. I could drink 4 litres of coke a day without gaining a pound (or going diabetic, oddly). Once I hit thirty - boom. I'm still skinny, but now I have 30 lbs worth of beer gut and bitch tits.

So it's not so much a dieting issue with me, as it is an issue to get off my ass and use the gym equipment. I consider myself a master procrastinator.

Working out is all about creating a routine.  If you make your workout a habit that you do at a time that you schedule, it becomes much easier to maintain.  Eventually, you find yourself doing it as a matter of course. 

I always advocate weight training for weight loss.  Replacing fat with muscle mass is the best way to increase your base metabolic rate.  There's nothing better than burning more calories while doing nothing.  Focusing on the large muscle groups is the easiest way to maximize results (chest, back, thighs, butt).

My wife went to a nutritionist about 2 months ago.  She wanted to see what she had to say about her losing weight, her migraines, and her occasional anxiety attacks.

After talking to her for a while the nutritionist wanted her to try this -
No grains
No sugar
No fruit
MAXIMUM of 2 days a week of exercise
Use unscented deodorant, no perfumes, etc...

In the 2 months my wife has had NO migraines, NO anxiety attacks and has lost about 30 pounds.  I think on her next appointment they are going to slowly start working foods back into her diet to try and determine what causes the migraines.  I just always find this story funny because her migraines were bad enough she went to see doctors a few times.  Every time she was basicly told "It's just a standard migraine, go home and take some Asprin, here's your $$$$$$ bill."  She goes and sees a local nutritionist once for like $50 and she hasn't hardly had a headache since.

Anyways, myself I'm around 230 give or take 10 pounds whenever I weigh myself.  I just really suck at sticking with a diet, I can eat heathier and smaller proportion meals without a problem.  It's just the snacks and stuff like that at work and when I go out I have a hard time saying no to.  I'm trying to stick myself with a more regular workout routine as well....but I'm just so lazy.  :ye_gods:

This diet only works because it's easily achievable by the lazy.

In fact, it's less effort than eating fast food. on that same note - the self-control necessary to do this diet is just astounding.

Bring nuts and such to work with you and have that for a snack.  Snacks aren't inheriently bad for you if you eat the right things, and a lot of diets focus on you eating all day to keep your metabolism going.

Maintaining a healthy diet is hard.  Period.  We're constantly bombarded by food images and advertising, by social situations, and time constraints.  You really have to want to eat well in order to pull it off.  Short term diets will never work for this reason.  You really need to be committed to a change in lifestyle in order to stay healthy.

You've done an outstanding job making it this far Schild and it's a strong statement of your willpower.  

The diet Schild is on will replace waterboarding by 2010.  It's that bad, but the weight does come off quick.

That said I'm on the same diet and had half a Tamale today.  :awesome_for_real:

And soup for lunch  :drill:

And a muffin  :ye_gods:

That's not the diet. That's the sound of total failure.

Kudos and all, but I think a diet that drives you a little nuts is generally not a good idea.  :-) You don't have to starve yourself to lose weight, and the whole process shouldn't be so much of an aggravation. Especially the whole depriving one's self of carbs thing.. I mean, yeah, we do digest a ton of them and need to cut that out, but generally speaking, carbs are good -- you need that energy -- and if you use that boost in energy from them, it'll only help you burn calories. The carbs aren't bad -- it's the fact that we don't use them that's bad.

Basically, the real activity when it comes to losing weight should be moving our fat asses more, not starving ourselves. Diet-wise, the only thing you should really worry about is not GORGING on complete shit. And.. Drinking more water.

Trust me when I say I am not under the illusion that this is healthy. Its about rapid weight loss. When you come up with a better minimum input/maximum output plan Ill consider your advice useful. Until then, goodbye fat stomach. Hello, ribs.

Rock on Schild!

My weight loss regiment, since I have gotten out of the service, is to do a less than 1000 cal a day diet of 6 meals.  The diet is low fat and low cal, but high fiber, lots of raw fruit and vegies.  Add that to a regiment of 2 to 3 cardio sessions and 1 weight training and 1 flexability training and it rocks.

Now if I could get my damn employers to think that we need to actually have a lunch break and let us eat, instead of standing up and slamming food in 5 mins so we can get back out and cover the area (it is like still being in the field) and working 12 hour shifts (which turn into 13+ hours), so it screws with your plans.

My nephew had terrible migraines.  He cut out all nitrates and they went away almost immediately.  Organic everything and fresh killed meat, when he could get it.  No chocolate, either... or... BACON!!!  NO BACON EVER!!!!

GF went on a diet and exercise plan that lost her a lot of weight, but then she plateaued out just around 10 lbs above where she wanted to be. Every single day she runs 3 miles, lifts weights, does tai chi twice a week and keeps a strict vegetarian diet with low sugar, no milk products and the last 10 lbs just won't come off. She has to keep doing what she's doing to keep the weight off, and thankfully, she doesn't mind the exercise that much, but at the end of the day, I think she's accepted that not everyone is meant to look like a model, and some folks are just built a particular way and that's that.

Me, I'm pear shaped. Exercise loses me 7 lbs and then I get bored :P

She needs to change her workout routine and increase the intensity and the last 10 lbs will come off in about 3-4 weeks.  She may also need to reduce her caloric intake enough to alter her current metabolic pattern.  This will work if she's really interested in losing those last 10 pounds.  Plateaus are very common during weight loss... they are a sign that your body has adjusted to the current plan and needs some new shaking up.

I so should have been a personal trainer instead of a research scientist! 

I admit, I couldn't give a better plan for rapid weight loss -- But I'd rather ask why you need a rapid plan in the first place? You're better off with a habit changing plan, one which could still produce great results in 3 months time, one which keeps the weight off so you don't have to worry about this again.

Also, your goal should be being healthy -- That's the ironic thing here! Weight loss is a result of that. Simply not wanting a better appearance is not a good enough goal.

Still time Nebu! We could start an Ask Nebu column!  or blog.

Obviously, Doctor, you're wrong.

The hard part of dieting is changing shopping habits. I tend to order out a lot which makes it very hard. When I don't order out I eat very healthy.

To be honest, short of military boot camp, I'm not sure how much more intense the girl can get. The point is, for a healthy person, she's exercising well above the mean already, and eats like a rabbit. If losing the additional 10 lbs requires more than an hour and a half of exercise a day and an even more restrictive diet, to me its obvious that her body simply wasn't designed to be minus those 10 lbs. Just because society dictates that you should look a certain way, doesn't mean that nature actually wants you to. She recently had a full physical check up from her doc; she has well below average blood pressure and colesterol (in good ways) and aside from vexing alergies, she's fit as a horse. Maybe we shold simply be a little less superficial about appearances and accept dthat nature's design might not fit into Vogue magazine this century.

Well, I'm no Doctor, but Doctor Nebu agrees with me, I'm sure. ;)

Anyways, even if improving your appearance is a big factor, having "health" as your primary focus is better for that too. It's an all encompassing thing. While concentrating on looks just encourages a quick fix -- something that your body is going to get tired of being put through again and again.

Besides that, it doesn't teach the kind of diet it takes to keep in good shape -- and without that discipline, you will relapse into obesity. That puts another nail in your goal of keeping up appearances.

Or lets say that you don't exactly relapse -- this kind of diet makes you weaker and less energetic anyways. It's going to be even harder to adopt a good workout routine after all is said and done. Which means that you'll stay skinny -- but you'll still be soft. Which isn't good for appearances either.

If you do relapse, you're even more fucked. You'll be getting heavy again, but too lethargic and undisciplined to kick your ass out of it... And you're back at square one. Possibly even worse... Because that'll be a pretty fucking depressing scenario, I must say.

Basically, even if you want a better appearance, it ultimately takes a healthy outlook. It takes work. And it isn't even that bad! No one has to get all crazy and shit -- just grab a friend and walk a few miles every day for starters. The way you guys like to bullshit with people, you'll be done before you know it. Just move, stretch, and get your joints working again. Later on, do some weight training on your shoulders and back before anything else. After that, the sky's the fucking limit.

(http://www.sheknows.com/graphics/emoticons/icecreamexercise.gif)

Ice Cream Diet!

No sodas or overloading on Mexican food got me from 295 to 245 in a year.  No exercise, etc.  I decided to lose more and went from 245 to 205 just by doing cardio on a bike.  60 minutes, bike riding to nowhere while catassing in front of the console.  Amounts to around 16 miles and 750-800 calories (according to the little meter, for what that is worth).  I don't like weights so I haven't used them (and I'm cheap).  I try and do 5-6 days a week, but with a 5 month old I'm lucky if I can get 3-4 days.  I want to get to 175, but that's just a little crazy for my height (77") and I really don't want to stop eating most foods.  Maybe once I get to 195 I will be satisfied.

Yikes! Yeah, 175 would be puny. Good luck on 195 though. I'm 76" at 200 (personally, I'd rather have an extra 20-25 lbs of muscle weight). This is normal for our height apparently. 175 isn't. Hope you get there.

I "dieted" once long ago. I wouldn't really call it dieting though. I was put on anti-depressants in my late teens, and soon after, I became a lard ass at 250. I just vegged out and ate whatever was easy to get. I then decided to quit the meds, and dropped 50. Somehow, that shocked me back into having a life again. Eating habits changed, and I started moving more.

[edit] I should add that you should really do some moderate weight training at least. Getting to 175 would be a good thing -- if you packed on 20-25 lbs of muscle on top of that. Your body fat should be as if you were 175.. Know what I'm saying? But being 195-205 without the muscle isn't exactly ideal.

Well for cheap weight training you can do push ups and sit ups, those work great.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who catasses on a stationary bike while playing, heck I even have the computer set up on a stationary bike now, so when I play MMOG's I don't feel bad now.

I don't know what I'd do without bacon.

I had some fantastic bacon this weekend with Easter brunch.  It was over at my best friend's parents' place, they made some great bacon.  Just traditional style, but the kind that's so well-executed that it reminds you why it's a classic part of breakfast.

Indeed, bacon is a great thing.

Bacon bacon bacon.

So once you lose all this weight are you going to start eating healthy and exercising? Or how do you plan to stay your preferred weight?

Seems a weird way of going about such things, but whatever makes you happy I guess.

Has she had her body fat measured?  That will tell her whether or not there's any more weight to come off.  If her body fat is above say ~20% then she can afford to lose a little more weight.  If it's about 15%, not so much - unless she's thinking of becoming an athlete.  It's all very well aiming for a target weight but she needs to be sure that her body can realistically get to that weight.  

I'm back dieting after a poor winter where I've put on too much weight again.  I'm currently 210lbs and am looking to drop to about 190 (74" height).  Mostly this is going to be through dropping about 750Kcal from my daily requirement (currently ~2500) and getting back to exercising again for about an hour a day (or about 500Kcal worth).  I'm looking to lose about 2lbs a week but mostly concentrating on lowering body fat while building lean body mass.  Vanity plays a part but mostly because my hobbies that aren't playing games/watching films are a little, shall we say, less sedentary.  


I'm sidelining into this (personal training - not being a research scientist) next year after a couple of years of helping people with their exercise and nutrition plans.

The first post of this thread (http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=33257) has some very specific and accurate information on everything everything diet to gaining weight to basic exercises.  The rest of the thread has a good variety of Q/A.

Yeah, it's the PA forums, but the information is well researched.  There's a huge amount of bad information on the web about diet and exercise, much of which is endlessly repeated.  Spot reduction, 'toning' muscles with crazy high rep amounts, vastly overworking muscle groups in a weekly routine, etc. 

/has been back at the gym for about 2 months now after six months of nothing and it feels fantastic. 

I concur.  It's a pretty good article apart from the list of "bad" foods.  Potatoes?  Is he kidding?  Potatoes are a great food as long as you prepare them right.  A baked potato is a very good source of vitamin C, fibre, potassium and anti-oxidants.  Best of all, they contain absolutely no fat.  Unless you fry them or add a 2 kilos of cream or butter to it.

Also, while most people tend to avoid the candy, that's because they're mostly made up of sugars which is a pure form of carbohydrate and adds more calories per gram than more complex carbs and they have little to know nutritional value.  But they're not bad in themselves unless  you stuff your face full of them all day every day.  Moderation is the key.  Personally I always have a bag of jelly babies to hand for a small (25g, ~100Kcal) carb hit after a long run. 

Occasional small amounts of choclate can also be good for you because of the anti-oxidant properties.  The key words there are OCCASIONAL and SMALL. 

Potatoes aren't a 'bad' food, they're just something you should stay away from when you're trying to lose weight.  There's far better ways to get the good stuff in potatoes without actually, you know, eating potatoes.

Candy after a run?  Weird.   :-)  I usually have a protein powder shake or a banana (but half the time I do cardio I lift beforehand)

This more than any other piece of advice in my view.

Looking better can be enough of a goal to get people started in the right direction.  Schild is right to a point, in an "end justifies the means" sort of way.  Stray is also correct and I've seen entire psych wings filled with people suffering from eating disroders as my evidence. 

Sadly, taking the weight off is the easy part.  Keeping fit for life; that's the challenge. 

Thanks for sharing that.

Please back this up with sound, nutritional reasoning because frankly, from where I'm standing, it's a load of crap. 

The thing with the candy after running (and I'm thinking specifically of things like Jelly Babies - easy to chew and swallow) is no different to eating a banana or having an isotonic drink (except that Jelly Babies/Bananas not so good on the fluid replacement front).  After a long run (~90-120 minutes) the glycogen reserves in your muscles have usually been depleted and need replacing to help recovery.  Glucose/sucrose is a highly efficient way of doing this.  If you're only running for 30-60 minutes then it's not so necessary.  If you're carrying excess fat (like I currently am), this is also less likely to be a problem as IIRC that will get consumed before the muscle protein starts to get broken down.

Potatos are a high starch, low nutrient food.  They're not bad, there just exist better forms of starch that are both higher in nutrients as well as being higher in fiber. 

As for candy after running: also not a great idea making jelly beans a poorer source than a banana or apple.  Glucose/Dextrose are fine for replenishing stores.  Fructose, not so much.  Most sweets contain fructose as the energy source.  Less processing = better.  A piece of fruit is a better choice after a run. 

Ok cool.  I didnt want to come off as a dick for saying it's probably not healthy heh.   I dont know exactly what your diet is but I've seen some crazy all liquid diets that are pretty radical.  Still 80 pounds in 3 months is a lot if you're only 300ish. 

Also consider, if the goal is physical appearance, just losing fat and muscle is not as good as getting lean.


It's mostly what you eat that will determine fat loss.  That said...

Free weight routine for the win.  Personally, I've been using this book (http://www.amazon.com/New-Rules-Lifting-Maximum-Muscle/dp/1583332383).  Or if you're the type who really cant stand that sort of thing, HIIT for the win. (http://www.musclemedia.com/training/hiit.asp).  Ideally, both.

But, anything is better than nothing.  Find something you like to do, if you're into walking and jogging go for it if that's what you'll stick with. 

All the people who are naysaying the diet don't seem to understand that all of their alternatives take effort. I'd rather lose the fat (and some muscle at the same time) and then work to bulk back up. It's a fuckload easier than seeing tiny incremental changes from working out 5 days a week and slightly altering the quality of your diet.

The alternatives were boring and more effort than they were worth. All I'm doing is min/maxing. What people are recommending is the opposite of that. Sure, they may be safer, but then, a lot of things are safer than min/maxing. Particularly when it's not in an MMORPG.

Yah but it's Min Maxing in Everquest.  You're zooming to level 50, you get there with crappy gear then you're dying repeatedly and losing your levels.   :grin:

Bleh.  Getting into the workplace for the first time brought me from 175 to almost 190.  I'm down to 178 now, mostly because I was annoyed about developing neck fat. 

I'm interested in losing weight myself and have excitedly skimmed through this threat.
I'll me pming you about it if you dont mind Schild.

Right now I'm somewhere between 190-200. I say somewhere because I've had a hard time with scales.
I've got 3 and they all say different things. One works on electric current and some days tells me 183 and some days 198.6
I've got another one that's brand new with an analog dial that tells me I'm 200 lbs but I know I should be less than that because I lost 14 lbs from when I was 207 - and that wasn't a long time ago.  I brought my dad's old scale out of the top floor bathroom and it tells me I'm 191.

I'm 6'3/6'4" without shoes and I'd really like to be 185 or 180. I dont have a lot of visible body fat (thin face and limbs) just pudge around the middle that I hide with suits.

So what I've read of this diet sounds great. I might have as much as 20 lbs to lose and would love to lose it fast. Then I'll work on my abs :)
Suggestions requested ;)

6'3" and 190-200?

You don't need to diet.

I'd agree, but numbers can be deceiving. There's a good kind of distribution of weight and a bad one, no matter how low the number seems to be. A person could fit within suggested BMI parameters, but in reality, have a body that's puny and under a lot of soft, excess fat. That's not really that much better off than full blown obesity.

Anyhow.. My suggestion to DarkSign is to just sweat that off. Drink a lot of water too. Not only will this help keep your appetite down, but you won't be dehydrated either (and in turn, your body won't try to hold on to every bit of excess water and fat). You sure as hell don't need a crazy diet to cut down 10-20 lbs.

I'm sure that sounds too simple... And it is. None of this is rocket science. Fitness is just basic science. Work, work, work. Our bodies were meant for it.

No, Stray, it's not simple.

You want it to sound simple, maybe to motivate yourself.

Exercise is hard for the lazy and terribly boring to people who like games.

Basically, what I'm saying, is that your solution sucks balls.

My solution is basically what nature has ordained. Take it up with her!  :-P

Seriously, our bodies (or every animal body, for that matter) are these amazing machines that were built for action.. If were born as limbless, sedentary blobs, I'd understand. But we weren't. We have to use and take advantage of what's given to us. Or we'll die early. That's all there is to it.

When you tell me what Nature has ordained, you're just preaching.

Also, if I wanted to make a thread about losing weight through exercise, I don't think I would've chosen the word title "dieting again."

Neck/chin fat is the best motivator in the world to eat right, because you see it every day whether you want to or not.  Unless you have a beard that hides it.  Part of why I shaved my beard off.   :grin:

haha. I have my beard because without it I look like  :pedobear:

I made a new goal for myself.  I want to be able to do 3 chin ups.  That would be up from none.

Samwise is wise.  This is me before growing a beard:

(http://www.losblingos.com/admin/uploads/fat_lady_470x705.jpg)

Just a couple of weeks later, after growing a beard and dying my head hair: 

(http://thebeautybrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/bearded-lady.jpg)

It is amazing, innit?

I think where Samwise was going was "It's simple to know what to do but hard to want to do it" amirite?

I'm not fat by any stretch it's just this annoying middlesection...that I guess I just need to do situps till I bleed.
I was hoping that I could get semi-crazy thin to the point of seeing my abs then work my muscle up, kind of a perverted version of Schild's plan.

Are traditional sit-ups or those plastic-ball crunches (you know the ones you balance on) the best way to get 6-pack abs?

I hear the guys on the cover of Men's Health have only 7% body fat. That's insane.

Ball crunches are better than traditional crunches in my experience as they require a lot more coordinated muscle control; although I prefer hanging crunches as I feel they work me harder. Unless you're doing hundreds of crunches though you might want to consider some running or time on a rowing machine to burn off excess gut. You can have incredibly strong abs and still not have a six pack if there's a nice layer of meat and gravy hiding them. Also you want to mix up the exercises, so do stuff like leg-raises, planks (front and side) and twists as well as crunches/situps.

Sounds like a plan. Thanks for the advice. I played soccer in college, but havent exercised since :(
The leg raises bring back old memories. It's a shame how much I dont know any more.

Running, crunches, leg-lifts and hanging crunches for me. I'll try 100 of each + 45 mins running and see how that feels.

I'm not preaching... I'm just trying to say that there is no sensible way to "hack" the machine, if you will. There will always be repercussions that way. Some hacks are worse than others, but it just isn't good generally speaking. We're better off just operating according to the manual -- trying to at least. Not everything is known about that "manual", about how our bodies work, but some guidelines are indisputable: Exercise is one of them. Moving your body is your natural imperative. It's the reason why there's even food and fuel to begin with.


The good thing about that is that it's the first to go if you exercise more. Face/neck/chin fat I mean.

Actually, you're preaching a different way of doing something that has the same end result.

Unfortunately, your way _sucks_. I'm not saying it's not healthier - it is healthier. Or less sensible - it isn't, it's more sensible. No one is disagreeing with you.

But your way still sucks. Results are slow. It requires about 900x more work than losing all the weight and putting muscle back on. And finally, requires motivation. Fuck motivation and fuck effort. I've learned how to hack the machine - without some disorder like bulimia or anorexia. Just because you haven't doesn't mean ways don't exist.

Well... I disagree. It doesn't suck. I think your psyching yourself out a bit on the suck factor of exercise. ;)

That being said, I think it's cool that you even give a shit at all. I happen to live in the second fattest city in the world. All kinds of people dragging themselves along here who don't care about appearances, let alone health.

Well, GOOD FOR YOU.


You know why they don't care? Exercise sucks. And it requires motivation and effort.

You cant spot reduce fat.  Can do all the sit ups in the world and if you dont expend more calories than you take in you wont lose.  Visible abs come from low body fat, about 14% or lower to start to see them, 10% or less to really show em. 

If your goal is to look good, dial in what you eat to be good food, not too much, and exercise.  If your goal is simply to lose weight fast as possible (i.e. muscle,  fat, whatever just weight) then you can just crash diet and it'll work til you plateau but you wont look as good as the first way and will likely gain it back.

Difference between a girl asking you if you lost weight or something and saying "Wow you look great, what have you been doing?"   :grin:

If your main goal is to look cut, then your priority should be to burn fat, so mid-high intensity cardiovascular exercise will help. The hard thing is going to be balancing out  fat loss in other parts of your body if you keep up a strict regime. If you reckon you're up to 100 of each exercise then good on you, just try not to fall into the usual gym trap of setting overly-high targets then burning out.

Also, a good diet will help a lot. Good luck with your endeavours :)

I eat what I want, but do lots of cock pushups.

Yes, motivation and effort are key, but to start out with, it's not as daunting a task as you think. This is what I mean by people psyching themselves out of exercise... They think they need to start some actual training regimen or something, and I can see how that can be a downer... But all they should focus on at first is moving a little more. Literally behaving like a normal human again. Y'know, like, walking or riding a bike to the local convenience store instead of driving all the time. Shit like that. It's not only good for some basic fat burning, but their joints have been out of commission for so long that they need to improve on that too. That'll still pose a problem even if they lose a lot of weight through dieting.

People should find little excuses to move their asses more often in every day circumstances. Then build from there. Later, you can start walking/running/cycling/swimming just for the hell of it. Or something! And like I said earlier, bring a friend along to pass the time. Bullshit yourself into thinking you're just out talking with a friend, instead of focusing on the fact that you're "exercising". Do it enough times, and you'll start enjoying the exercise too.

It's very pathetic if someone can't bring themselves to that. One of my friends is 7 months pregnant. She works, juggles other family stuff, and she still gets on a treadmill every day. She's as hot as she was before, even with a bun in the oven. And if a busy pregnant woman can find the energy to make a commitment to exercise, then anyone should.

How many can you do?

I can see you're not "getting it."

So we're done here.

About one every six hours.

ZZzzzzzt.

Correct answer was. "Well, One."

One?

"Yea, that's all you need."

 :sad:

I didn't know there was going to be a test.  Didn't you kids play MadLibs?

I will be interested to hear if you're ever able to keep your weight off and put on muscle as you plan to schild. I'm with Stray on this one. You might have a great way to lose weight with a stupid unhealthy diet, but fucked if I know how that's going to help you eat reasonably and stay that thin if exercise and thinking carefully about your body is such hard and boring work that you refuse to do it.

You might think others don't "get it", but there is nothing to "get" here. You want a result that is not obtainable without effort, and you have said you're unwilling to put in that efort.

Get what? I'm supposed to understand how you can't find the "motivation" to do some basic cardio? No, you're right. I don't get that. That's staggeringly ridiculous to me. Motivation to build yourself to look like a bone-fide athlete? Yeah, that's one thing. Motivation to rehabilitate from a pair of crushed legs? For damn sure. Motivation to just simply walk around the neighborhood? Gimme a break! Or maybe you don't think I understand that people want an easy route to weight loss? I do understand though.... Which is why I basically suggest to people that they should just walk more. Nothing's easier than...walking.

Are you telling me the Ab Roller 8000 people lied to me?   :ye_gods:

FUCK!

The key to abs (remember I have them) is just cardio and diet. Nothing else. Doing stomach stuff without the cardio will just make you look fatter as the muscle pushes your belly out. Look at powerlifters for example, they have huge abs but most of them appear to be chubsters.

It's basically impossible to have abs so small and weak that they won't show at all once you lose the fat.

Still a good idea to do crunches if you're doing cardio as well, of course. Since the results will be that much better after the fat is gone.  :-)

Also, leg lifts for your lower back. Anything to gradually build up your core. It'll make everything easier later.

I exercise because I enjoy it. :awesome_for_real:

I hate high school for making me think I hated exercise. I used to be slightly chubby (very slightly) until I hit that magical place and time. Who knew that making exercise a chore and a torment would make it harder for the fat kids to lose weight? I was fat from the second year of high school until a couple years after it, then I finally get off my ass to walk for 10 minutes a day because my doctor gives me the "you will die if you don't lose wieght" speech and after 3 days I'm feeling heaps better and kinda liking it. Within 2 weeks I was walking for an hour and only stopping because I was bored. Once I got light enough to jog without killing my legs I was doing 2 hours just because it was fun. Between work and exercise I've actually cut deeply into my gaming and internet time so that I can jog. The mind boggles, I've got the second best ingrained ability to stay thin (those guys who can eat anything and never gain win it) and yet I was fat for so many years. Fuck high school. In the ass.

Eh?

I was starting varsity in soccer for all 4 years. I practiced 4 hours a day. I was in shape and built, until I got hurt.

In other words, I have no aversion to exercise other than it sucks time out of my day and I'm too lazy to be more efficient in order to exercise. Also, I fully know that I can stay in shape. Stray is just making stupid assumptions. Over and Over. Also, he seems to be under the impression that the diet I'm on doesn't work. Which is uhhh, I don't know, a little too goddamn presumptive. And silly. Let's not forget silly.

Learned this one in med school in gross human anatomy.  When you peel away the fat, everyone has a 6-pack.  Though doing high weight, low rep crunches can build abdomenal muscle bulk such that you don't need to be nearly as lean to see definition.  Not that anyone really wanted to know any of this. 

I have a weight problem, and over the years I've found it best not to discuss what I am or am not doing to lose weight because when I do everyone becomes an MD or fucking nutritionist. As you've no doubt now experienced...

As far as your diet goes Schild, I'd also weigh in on the side of adding in some exercise. Hell, get that WiiFit shit and use it and then pan it in the PC/Console forum. Go for walks. They're a nice way to clear your head or mull over shit that's going on in your life. Maybe it's the fact that I work for (verrrrryyyy corporate) hippies or something, but I'm really starting to believe that a whole body and mind approach to exercise is a good thing. Plate of shrimp, etc. I wish you the best of luck on grinding to a 30/32 waist. I'm going to aim for 34 (down from the current 36) by my birthday in May.

The nice thing about my current lifestyle is that, aside from a good cardio workout, I get a lot of exercise in at work. I cleared five full skids of wine and one of beer yesterday. This involves getting the cases off the skid, onto a cart, to the spot where they're being displayed, stacking a base, cutting and stacking the display cases, and returning the bigass pine skids to the loading dock.

Fortunately, winter is almost totally over, so all I need to figure out now is whether my bike's back wheel is totally fucked or not. Coming home from a Cubs game late last season, a car ran me off the road while crossing a bridge. There is no noticeable change to the shape of the back wheel, but I can feel and others can see some wobble when I ride. My hope is that it's a $10-$15 fix and not a replace-the-whole-wheel fix. Apparently they can maybe just retune the spokes and fix it? Any bike geeks than can weigh in on that?

Needless to say, even though I get some good activity in at work, I'm thinking about going back to my old schedule of working out with my freeweights here at home. I should also really start stretching and whatnot, which may be a fun thing to do with my daughter to get her used to an active lifestyle.

I never said your diet didn't work Schild. Yes, you will lose weight. Just "losing weight" is not what you should be thinking about though. When you deprive yourself of fuels to keep your energy up, then your body just starts feeding on it's own proteins (muscle). Not just fat. You're losing good things, as well as bad things.

The important thing though is that muscle depletion leads to a slower metabolism. Which, in turn, leads you to having an even harder time burning calories. Even a normal calorie intake will be harder to expend (i.e. just by eating normally, you could still get fat... doesn't matter if you stopped overeating). Coupling that with the fatigued state you'll find yourself in, you'll be at an even higher risk than before of gaining weight. You'll have less muscle, less energy, and require even more work to burn calories to maintain a decent weight.

If you have the willpower to work through this dillema, then more power to you. The reason I make an "assumption" that you won't have it in you is because you're already dismissive about the idea of exercise now, when your body is in better shape. If you don't like it now, then you won't like it the future -- because it's going to be harder.


Recommending exercise is not being an "MD" or "nutritionist". It's just common sense. Or used to be at least.

How many ways can I say "I know this diet isn't good for me?"

You're being a bit of a senseless punk, Stray.

This is great news! I wish you best luck. In support of your efforts I am going to have nice steak with side of refried beans with bacon and cold beer to wash it down.

You can say it 50 times if you want. The fact is everyone understood you the first time. Stray isn't talking about the diet itself but what you have presented as your philosophy, your goals, and the implications further down the track. If your purpose is to lose wieght and then feel ill, or to lose weight and the put it back on, then it all makes sense. However you seem to be expecting more from this diet that that, so the whole thing doesn't make sense.

Everyone can repeat themselves over and over though. It makes the day go faster.

Yes, but I'm not dieting again because it failed the first time. I'm dieting because I wanted to lose _more_ weight.

If you think I'm going to put it back on, just keep it to yourself. No one said "Dieting without Exercising, punk bitches apply here."

Saying things like you do in the first sentence, and then turning around and calling me the senseless one is why I'm being a punk.  :-P

Don't take all of it as something directed specifically at you though. I may be replying to you, but I'm also trying to discourage others here who think it may be a cool diet for them. It's for anyone to read.

So, who is she and what is her family like ?

I get the impression here that you don't like exercise.  Mainly because it sucks.  You're not alone in that (I gather) but help me with this:


How are you intending to put muscle back on in a way that doesn't involve exercise or effort? 

Levelling service.

I think his point is that it is easier (for him) to lose fat AND muscle and rebuilding the lost muscles than to burn fat while keeping muscle mass.

Bingo.

Working off fat by working out takes about 8x longer than hardcore dieting and then working out 3-4 days a week. I'd rather lose weight fast and look likea cancer victim while doing it than lose weight slowly and even more slowly put on tiny bits of muscle mass.

Edit: That said, the odds of me ever looking sickly or like a cancer victim is ohhhhhh Zero.

You are wrong.  That is not the case for most individuals.  I went from a belly and size 38 jeans to a mostly flat stomach and size 32 jeans with a very involved diet/exercise plan in 4 months.  That was 4 years ago and I'm still size a size 32 and still doing cardio 3 times a week.  Getting healthy is a lifestyle change.  If you lose weight fast, chances are you are gong to gain it back fast and then some.  There are shit tons of research studies out there that prove this.  Do a quick search on CINAHL or Medline if you have the means. 

This diet may work for you, and I honestly hope you’re successful, but it's a very strange approach and does not work for most people.

I won't say that you'll look like a cancer victim, but depriving yourself of daily nutrients will in fact make your skin tone a bit sickly. Hell, if people don't get some exercise at all, they're going to look a little sickly in the first place.


As for building muscle back up after the diet -- Well, like I said above, it'll be harder then than it is now. It makes zero sense to say otherwise.

Jesus Christ can't you shut the hell up already.

I would leave talk of the ramifications of such a diet to qualified professionals such as DOCTORS or NUTRITIONISTS.

Wait.. So you're willing to just accept a diet plan from your friend Schild... BUT, you don't want to hear any other talk unless it's from a Doctor?

Uh, yeah, OK.

Besides, this isn't so complex as to require professional confirmation here -- it's already been confirmed thousands of times elsewhere. And me, along with the other active people here, are the ones who listened to them. You're better off listening to what we have to say, instead of turning this into a popularity contest.

lol

Yes I'm willing to accept the diet, I'll let a qualified professional decide what is wrong with it.  Not an ex-Walmart Manager.

Oh you have thousands of confirmations to back you up?  So do I!  What a coincidence, look I can make up stuff too on the Internet.

The main point you aren't getting is the old saying, "To each their own".  Some people lose weight by being active and it works for them, others lose it by dieting.  It seems as if you'd rather fat people stay fat then do this diet, it's completely asinine.  Stop arguing and be supportive, Schild lost 80 FUCKING POUNDS, stop being so selfish you can only focus misguided beliefs rather than be supportive of someone who made a major lifestyle change for the better.

I didn't say you don't lose weight. I know that you lose weight -- it's just that you lose both good and bad weight. Losing fat, along with muscle depletion is not where you want to be. I tried to explain that somewhere above. It's a two steps forward, one step back sort of thing, if you will.

I never said I wanted "fat people to stay fat". Damn, man. I know this can be a touchy subject for people worried about their weight, but some are getting a little too defensive here to read anything like that into what I'm saying. I'd love to see more people get healthy. I am supportive about that -- but I'm going to bring attention to the fact when their methods put them at risk of not achieving their goals. This isn't about my "selfish" concerns. I'd love to see them reach their goals.

I've never worked at Wal-Mart. :-)

It's not a touchy subject, you're just being a retarded oppressive assclown about it.

That's pretty much all there is to it. Your OPINION can lick my ass.

Um, dropping that kind of weight that rapidly isn't exactly making a lifestyle change for the better.  It's "fad dieting".

Yes it's a fad, he never should of lost it in the first place.  Losing weight is so trendy these days.

Yes, I CLEARLY said "losing weight" is a fad.   :roll:

(http://www.sheknows.com/graphics/emoticons/catfight.gif)

Trippy, please add this to the board smileys.  Lives are at stake.

Bullshit.  Your "opinion" is that starving yourself is better than eating healthy while moderately lowering your total calorie intake and exercising?  That's hilarious.  Find me one relevant article by someone with a degree to back that up.

Your plan is to lose something like 120 pds in 5-6 months, and you might be able to do it by continuing to slash your caloric intake.  But you're going to be a miserable ass most of the time, feel like shit, and come out the other side with almost zero muscle and possibly some skin flaps.  Sounds like a great six months right there.

If you add some simple cardio and weight lifting, you're going to be able to eat a LOT more (and feel better because of it) and still lose the same amount of weight, be in a vastly better mood because, ya know, that's one of the main benefits of exercise, and most importantly, you'll save yourself ANOTHER 3-6 months of getting in shape (depending on how far you want to go).  Saying you played soccer in high school is meaningless - you were already in shape.  Starting over from scratch is a different world and is going to be a shitload harder than not eating.
     

Thanks for the advice!

 :popcorn: <------ Nonbuttered.

WTF man, do what works.  :ye_gods:

We had hot dogs for lunch.  Filled with juicy unknowiness. 

So yeah, I've actually been on a diet/exercise plan for exactly 5 weeks now.  Basically been following a plan recommended to me by Nebu (thanks!).  Follows most of what people here suggest.  I eat 6 small meals a day and try to get 2-3 of them to have equal portions of protien/veg/carb, with the rest being a mix of the two (I basically eat 3 real meals, then eat protein bars/shakes for the other 3).

For the exercise, I do weight training 3 times a week (monday/wednesday/friday) alternating upper and lower body each time, then cardio for 3 times a week (tuesday/thursday/saturday).  Sunday is do/eat what ever I want day. 

I must say that I was a person who could never make themselves go to the gym with any consistency, and oddly enough it wasn’t until I started working a full time job for the first time in my life (college life if finally gone L) that I was able to start this.  I just make it apart of my routine.  While at work, I can easily monitor my meal intake through the day, since I don’t have any distractions (like video games to make me forget to eat, or lots of junk food laying around).  Also, I take the bus to work in the mornings, and then make myself walk from work to the gym as soon as I get off work.  Before, I would walk home first, and then go to the gym.  But I found that I usually got home, sat down to relax a bit after a full days work, and suddenly couldn’t find the effort to get my ass back out and up to the gym to work some more.  Now I make it that my only way to home is through the gym, and now I’ve been exercising 6 days for a month and a half with almost no missed sessions.  So yeah, I guess that’s a bit of advice for anybody looking to do this.  Your house is the enemy!

I think its been working ok so far.  I haven't actually been monitoring myself with a scale or anything, and have just been eyeballing it.  I'm starting to notice the fat on my face is going down, which relieves me.  I'm basically in the same boat as Darksign.  I'm overall all tall and skinny, but last few years of low exercise and bad eating have caused a nice layer of fat to form around my gut that really started to piss me off and prompt all this.  Also, I was noticing fat on my face/neck, which also drove me forward (Tri is very right about that).

My only concern is weather I'm doing enough cardio to be burning fat as efficiently as I can.  As was recommended, I basically try to do High Impact Interval Training on a workout bike at the gym (Its alot easier for me to control intervals on a machine than trying to feel it out by jogging/sprinting, heh).  After a 2 minutes warm up at lvl 5, I go 1 minute at lvl 7, then increase it to 9, 11, 13 for each minute after that (making sure to go all out at lvl 13).  After a minute at 13, I drop back to 7 and do the cycle over again.  I do this for 20 minutes straight, and by the end, I usually have sweat flowing down my face and my thighs feel like they are on fire.

However, I keep reading that 20 minutes is the minimum you should be doing for cardio, and read about alot of people going 45 minutes at stuff....  Should I try to tough it out much longer than 20 minutes using the HIIT method (I've tried, and I can only really make it another cycle or two), or switch to a somewhat less straining cardio method that I can go longer with?  The biggest goal to my dieting/exercising is to get rid of as much of this extra flab as I can, and while I also want to build up muscle (of which I have little, heh), using the best fat killing routine is my main concern right now.

I just guess I’m not sure what sort of progress I’m suppose to be seeing by 5 weeks, heh.  I do slip up on the diet sometimes (on weekends sometimes I run out of prepared food and will eat something normal/non-diety around the house, or just go on a beer drinking bing on Sundays).  I allow myself a few vices, like 1 beer every few days.  But I wouldn’t think that would slow me down to badly…

So yeah, any insights/suggestions anybody has would be appreciated.

My wife watched the hot dog episode of How It's Made and vowed to never eat one again.

I love hot dogs.

No it's not, I don't understand why so many people are getting confused here.  He's saying that the only way he's going to lose weight is through a severe crash diet, there are no other options that will successfully work.  It's very easy to just say "eat less and exercise more" but it's extraordinarily hard to do and the fact of the matter is that most people will not succeed at it.

This is not a crash diet versus healthy diet and exercise argument, this is a crash diet versus staying overweight argument.  If you have tried everything else and it didn't work but are actually able to pull off a severe diet then it's a no brainer to do the severe diet.  Whatever damage may have been done during the diet is almost instantly going to be balanced by not having the extra 80 pounds and when you add in the positive long term effects of that weight loss then the diet is clearly worth it.

He lost a hell of a lot of weight and he's not dead so whatever he's doing it worked, you can't really argue with that.

Go for it Schild. When I was in my mid-twenties I went on a stupid, unhealthy, fad diet (anyone remember Herbalife?) and lost 60 pounds in three months. I don't regret it for a minute. At that age you can get away with a little of that kind of self-abuse.

Well stated.  Schild has done an incredible job through sheer determination. 

From a healthcare standpoint, the method isn't ideal but it's tough to argue with the outcome.  I certainly support a method such as this (with proper supplementation, of course) over something like gastric bypass or banding.     

I've known heroin addicts that lost a lot of weight and aren't dead either, that doesn't make heroin a good idea for weight loss. :P 

There's nothing wrong with trying to encourage someone to try a healthier method of losing weight, and people who constantly say "I just can't do it!" MAY be right, but effort counts.

You did not just compare a heroin addict to someone who eats very specific (and nutritious foods) for 12 weeks.

Oh, you did.

Don't be a tool.

I'm countering the asinine claim that "Anything that works is good!" that is seemingly being thrown about here.  Crash dieting is NOT good for you.

I've got a couple of books on the subject, talked to my doc, etc, etc.  General consensus so far is that weight training before cardio has a greater effect in a shorter amount of time.  Weight training, specifically free-weights, consumes your easily available stored quick energy.  Then when you switch to cardio after your weights your body is forced to burn stored fat.  Your cardio heart-rate also comes into play.  If I remember right the basic formula is 220-[your age] x 0.8.  That is supposedly your optimal fat burn heart rate. 

I haven't changed my diet much, and following the above for three times a week and the last three months, I've lost roughly 25lbs and replaced it with muscle. 

But, I don't have near as difficult a target as Schild-y does and I have an awesome fitness program through my work.  It's now part of my routine during the week, and I agree; it's made it much easier. 

Anyone have any steroid recommendations for me?   :grin:

FFS, no one is saying crash dieting is good for you they are saying it's a hell of a lot better than not losing the weight at all.

Heroin, wow, if only I could I could figure out a way to ratchet up the hyperbole to trigger Godwin's law.

Edit: I just thought of a way.

Wow, it's like people here have never heard of refuting something through absurdity.  Assuming that I meant heroin use was the SAME THING as crash dieting is just demonstrating stupidity on a staggering level.  I'm drawing an absurd conclusion from statements like "He lost a hell of a lot of weight and he's not dead so whatever he's doing it worked, you can't really argue with that."  OF COURSE you can argue with that, I was just showing what kind of silly nonsense such a statement would imply.

Here, let me spell it out for those who can't seem to understand: I am not implying that heroin use and crash dieting are the same thing.  REALLY.

As for the remainder, about whether crash dieting or keeping the weight on is healthier?  That depends.  People underestimate the damage that rapid weight loss can cause, particularly since in the vast majority of cases the weight loss is simply temporary.

Oh so you're a doctor now?   I say people OVERESTIMATE the damage rapid weight loss can cause, in fact my statement encompasses more people than yours, so now I'm undeniably right.

Stop being a retard and crawl your way to another thread for godsakes.

It is a touchy subject if you reply to me like that. It's like you think I'm here to ridicule you, but really, I'm not. I haven't called you names, made jokes at your expense, or anything of the sort. I have no interest in that. I'm just saying "Hey man, don't hurt yourself. Here's what could happen..." That doesn't mean I'm being "oppressive". And because I point out the virtues of exercise over all other routes doesn't mean I'm oppressive.

I do admit to being relentless however. But I've pretty much conveyed all of the points I've wanted to make. So I'll leave you be. Good luck.

Man this thread is all over the place. Honestly the only thing I can add is congrats on losing the weight. wait, no i can add more....I think it is cool that you had the discipline to eat right, but from what I saw, you were eating the absolute bear minimum. Like you were starving yourself while simutlaniously tricking your body into thinking it had to burn off all this fat. I really don't think I know what was happening to your body to make you drop all that weight so fast, cause I am not a doctor, but I think that all that discipline would have been better spent on normal diet and exorcise. At least you would have felt better and been more enjoyable to be around. as it is, your diet has made you all angry and snappy for a long while now and I think I like fat Schild better. He was nice-ish.

Anyway, make sure you start some sort of cardio-whatever stuff after you wreck your body some more, so that you don't gain it all back.

Congrats on the weight loss, you look GGGGRRRRRREEEEAT!  :oh_i_see:

Dead/Alive is the only criteria that matters!


I wish I used to be fat and a smoker. It would give me some great reasons for why I'm always being a dick.  :-)

I hear that Trimspa stuff works pretty well.

I'm being a smartass, I'm actually on schild's side here but it's easier to come up with jokes for the other side.

Gonna snag a Baconator or two on the way home from work. Who's with me??!!  :drill:

I had to wikipedia that... Never heard of it! I'd have to take mine without mayonnaise though.

The Bible says fat people are jolly.

I'm buying a pound of thick cut peppered bacon this week and I plan to make something with it. 

That's like doing Paris Hilton bareback and insisting on washing your hands afterwards.

It isn't the health factor that puts me off. Bacon and mayo just sounds nasty.  :-)

Plus she does seem like she'd be... sticky.

The mayonnaise loses itself in an avalanche of meat and cheese and fat. I wish I had a pic of Peter Griffin having a McStroke but my Google-fu is failing me.

So, couple of things.  First congrats, because hitting the gym and modifying your eating are huge steps and you will see success without a doubt. 

Cardio can be segmented into high intensity (HIIT) and steady state.  HIIT will ramp up your metabolism and the effect can last for days, fancy anagram is EPOC:  Exess post-exercies oxygen consumption.  Overall it will burn more callories in 15 mins than a long steady state cardio session.  You'll get different people reccommending different things.  Personally I've seen more people mix HIIT with weights, more fun and dynamic and less chance of burning muscle.  HIIT is meant to be short and really intense, so dont stretch it out or you're really just doing steady state.  A good idea of what HIIT is would be to try this:  1 minute jogging at a decent pace and 30 seconds of a full out sprint.  Not on a treadmill, on a track would be best.  By sprint I mean run like you are chasing a guy who just punched your girlfriend in the face.  As hard as you can.  It's quite a shock if you havent sprinted since you were a kid.  You'll be done in 5 minutes of that. 

3 days at the gym, and HIIT off days is plenty for now.  If you want to throw a steady state day in there that's fine, but I dont think it's needed.  Be sure to mix things up after a while (5 weeks you start to get used to a routine and should think about switching it up pretty soon), and check your diet if you hit a plateau.  But overall sounds like you're on the right track to me.

Well I do ventolin sometimes when I'm exercising. It helps with the breathing. :oh_i_see:

Really the main thing about workout routines is just doing them. Yes, there are better and worse routines but 95% of the people who fail fail because they just don't stay serious about them. It's one thing if you are an elite-level athlete like myself (sport: ab flexing) or a body builder but for normal people just sticking with it is the most important thing, where sticking with it means both showing up and constantly pushing yourself.

I have a certificate to show that I'm qualiified as a nutritional advisor - does that count?    Admittedly I have to redo it or a similar course to claim the points needed to qualify for the points needed to get onto the UK Register of Exercise Professionals (http://www.exerciseregister.org/) and I've never used it to earn money but hey, I'm sure it's around somewhere.  Probably in the same pile of crap as my IBM professional certifications.

Schild, next time do something less controversial.  Like taking up smoking.  Or eating children (nobody likes the whiny ones anyway). 

Clearly one cannot talk about a subject unless one has a doctorate in the field.  Of course that makes perfect sense.  :roll:

But hey, if you don't want to believe that crash dieting might be less healthy than simply being overweight, why not try investigating it?  Go to the library, talk to a nutritionist or your family doctor (like I did last year when I was contemplating a number of crash diets) and ask..

That's way too much bother.  I'll just wait and see who dies first.

Fat burning zones are a bit misleading.  Research¹ has shown that calories burned while exercising at a certain rate (which equates to about 50% VO2Max or ~65-70%MHR) are made up of a greater percentage of fat - 50% or so.  Higher intensity exercise will burn a lower percentage of fat (~33% at 75%VO2Max/85%MHR).  All sounds good so far until you actually work out the maths:

A 30 min, low intensity workout (70%MHR) would burn about 350 Kcal, 50% of which are made up of fat giving us 175 Kcal from fat.
A 30 min, high intensity workout (85%MHR) would burn about 525 Kcal, 33% of which are made up fat giving us - whaddya know?  175 Kcal from fat!

Add to that the fact that the EPOC that Dash mentioned will last longer after a high intensity workout thereby burning more calories overall than a low intensity workout of the same duration. 

Where the low intensity workout really comes into it's own is after working out for a long time - by which I mean 2 - 3+ hours when the glycogen has been depleted and the fat stores become the primary source of energy. 



¹Determination of the exercise intensity that elicits maximal fat oxidation. (Achten, Gleeson & Jeukendrup) Med Sci Sport Exer 2002, 34(1)

To be fair, it did work for Christian Bale who reputedly only ate a tin of tuna and an apple a day to lose 63lbs for The Machinist:

(http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/061017/155113__machinist_l.jpg)

He also said he couldn't even do 1 pushup afterwards. At an emaciated 120 lbs, that's just about 70lbs. Eww.

There's a reason to exercise that doesn't have anything to do with your weight — the health of your brain.

The science is solid that increasing oxygen flow to your brain will pay immense dividends for your mental acuity, especially as you age. Far less chance of dementia, Alzheimers, etc.… as well as keeping you cognitively sharp even after you are 90+.

It doesn't mean you have to signup for a grueling spartan routine — 3-4X+ a week, walking >30 minutes would even suffice.

Then how come jocks are so dumb, eh smart guy?

EDIT

I received a serious response, so I now feel obligated to point out that the above sentence was made as a joke.  Thought the "eh smart guy?" ending would've given it away.

It's not a continuum where more exercise == more brainpower. And strenuous, arduous exertion is not better than just over the bare minimum requirement that the body and brain need.
 
Our bodies evolved and are suited for walking average of 5 - 15 miles per day.

Again, the science is clear on the matter — don't have the time to ferret out a bunch of links for you, but here's one on the theme:
http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/guide/train-your-brain-with-exercise

(http://www.csmfoundation.org/football__2_.jpg)

Yes, perhaps I've responded to one too many Dash posts…

But Christian Bale went from that role immediately to training intensively for his following role. He didn't just starve himself then keep the weight off.

Well, yeah but then Schild isn't trying to become a 120lb emaciated insomniac either. 



Yet.

The moment I went off the diet the first time I started working out 4-5 times a week. The diet is just impetus to get the extra weight off my back. Back pain can stop you from exercising effectively. I'm sure some fatties here know that.

Also, for the like, 10 people that PM'd me about it, I'm going to PM you all back with generic info and you can hit me up for more if it doesn't explain enough.

Cool enough, schild. I should say though that back pain is a problem for anyone who doesn't get much exercise, even seemingly fit people. Not enough people focus on that area, when it should be the first thing. Lower back especially. You can help that now a little in the meantime by just doing as many leg lifts as you can a night. Yeah, it'll be a longtime before you get real results, but you will be better off by the time the diet's over, and better prepared for other shit.

Actually, I got injured in high school. The weight just made it so exercising was not an option. See, I didn't want this thread to become bloggy, so I kept my PROBLEMS out of it.

So, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease stop giving me advice. Thx.

First off, "No". If you or anyone else says something that I know can be expanded upon, or corrected, then I will expand upon it or correct it. The only reason I see for stopping is if I simply do not know or do not care. If you want to take offense at that, like it's some malicious attack against you, then go right ahead. I'm merely concerned with information. That other shit is your problem.

Secondly (and just to make you feel better, this "advice" is for anyone, not just you), if you think that you'll be able to exercise more without the excess weight, then you can exercise with the weight as well. Fat doesn't make it so that exercise is not an option at all. You simply do what you can at whatever stage you're at. If that means only five leglifts, then five leglifts it is. If it means ONE, then one it is. It's better than nothing. But doing nothing at all is silly. Only a completely debilitating injury would prevent you from exercising at all -- and it'd fuck you up whether you were heavy or not.

Besides all of that, leg lifts in particular are a back lying exercise, where the lower back muscle is worked from lifting up your legs. Nothing in your spine is moving, so even if you did have some special injury that prevented you from doing this specific workout, it'd have to be in your hips or thighs.

Upper back workout wise (such as lateral raises), your injuries would mainly need to be in the shoulder joints. Not your back.

I don't know about you, but I've only ever done lying leg raises for abdominals.  I'm unsure how they could possibly target the lower back, except to the extent inherent in stretching.

So if it wasn't meant to bloggy, what was it? A public service announcement?

Yes, so don't be a dim choad. Here's a quote from the FIRST POST.

The funny thing is... you didn't have to even post that.  We wouldn't have noticed!

Also, accountability helps.

When we're expecting him to get this done (or, rather, when he thinks we're expecting him to get this done) he's more likely to do it.

You should feel some burning in the lower back at least, directly opposite of your lower abs...Unless you need something more intense, I guess (which would be good). It'll work out the abs, lower back, hip flexors, glutes, and is good for just stretching the hamstrings a bit. It's not the best exercise for the lower back or anything, since it's indirect, but it's a simple start towards supporting the spine. Just about everything else is going require you to bend your back more. If someone can manage extensions or dead lifts (even a tiny bit of weight), then do those instead.

Just for the record. I'm below 220 now.

Rock on Schild!

Just in case anyone else wants to exercise and catsass at the same time, AirDesk (http://www.airdesks.com/) makes a stand you can rig up anywhere to play and ride.  I bought the AirDesk for CPU's (http://www.airdesks.com/computer_desk.asp) and a custom made mast.  It works quite well, holds up to a work out (have done 2 hour gaming sessions and lots of calorie burn).  Now that I settled on a spot for it, I realize I probably could have maybe have made something from Menard's (well the monitor wall mount might have been tricky), but this way I didn't have to cuss as much.  I use an old ProForm exercise bike, it has a wide and comfy seat, no batteries or electricity needed, has a tension settings (so less parts), and is sturdy.  Too bad Pro form doesn't make it anymore.  I had a recumbent bike that I tried out this year, just could not get into it...probably that I still ride my bicycle and don't like the change in settings.  I do like steppers or ellipticals, but kinda hard to game and work out on them.

Stray, I bought these just to annoy you. (http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/984/id667sx4.jpg)

They're not that bad... Except for that gunk on the back of the knees???

Oh. They don't look like that in real life really.

It's just creases in the denim to be comfortable when you sit and stretch them.

Hoochie mama gear?

(http://forums.f13.net/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=3278;type=avatar)

Oog, foist upon my own beartard.

Howzit goin' Schild?

He's back on the diet to save money, he should be up in about 6 hours to tell you that much.

Heh... So it's not even a diet anymore? Just thriftiness?  :grin:

That's how I usually lose weight - I decide I can't afford beer for a week.

This is a good thrifty diet.

And it goes. I'm having some major stomach issues this time around that I didn't have last time around. But then, this diet is supposed to be for people who have a shitload of weight to lost and I... do not. Like, at all. My ideal weight is probably somewhere around 200-210 as I've got a big fucking frame, and I'm uhhh not very high above that. In fact I am at 218. I'll see if there's any progress in the next day or two, otherwise, I think I've hit max effectiveness for the diet. And you know how much I like min/maxing.

On that same note, I bought a pair of slim jeans last night (7Fam Bladerunners) and I think this is the first time since pre-puberty I could fit into anything called slim. And they look fucking good.

Schild, I've told you a million times that that diet is not sustainable. Keep an eye on your fat, carbs, and protein (and fiber) and you should be able to knock off the last few.

I've dropped like 4 of the "quit smoking" pounds, yay on me.

I reapplied myself to a diet and exercise routine about 3 weeks ago.  I had ballooned up to as big as 240 - 245 at 68", and it showed, man did it show.  I have the photo on my driver's license to prove it.  I signed up with Nutrisystem and spent about 2 months rigidly on that program without additional exercise.  I think I dropped down to 225 at that point before I went off it and got all depressed.  But then, I went to a party and got hugged by a hot asian girl, and for some reason that invigorated me to start exercising again, eating right, and all sorts of things.  Last time I went to the doctor I was 217 (about a week into the program) and I'm hoping to get down to what I consider "normal", which is about 180.  If I get below that, woo.

Right now I'm kinda easing into it.  I was doing cardio for 30-35 minutes at high intensity everyday, though now it's starting to ease back to about 4-5 days a week due to the scheduling factors (I do this on my lunch, and if I have to do something like go to the bank, I either come in early and exercise or I don't exercise).  I'm also using the Perfect Pushup to work my upper body.  The first week was somewhat hellish.  My entire upper body was sore.  I could barely do the stuff it was asking me to do.  My cardio was tiring.  But now? Well, I'm not sore, I'm able to do everything in my program for the date that I'm at (including close push-ups which are hell), and I'm doing a solid cardio routine.  All this during my lunch hour.  I'm feeling better, that's for sure.  I'm probably going to be doing real push-ups (without my knees) after next week when I reevaluate my upper body strength, and hope that my arms go from Christian Bale in the Machinist to Christian Bale in Batman.  Well, that'd be nice.  I never had great upper body strength.

My cardio routine does get my heart rate up higher than I think would be optimal, but I'm hoping that the extra work I'm doing will eventually become "the norm", and that my body will go to a better heart rate because I'm in better shape.  I've already had that happen once during the 3 weeks and made my cardio more intense.

Diet by Nutrisystem.  "Portioned for Weight Loss."  It's been working pretty well.  I will have the occasional "whatever I want" day, but lately I realized that the food I used to gorge on is better enjoyed every once in awhile.  But fuck I love vanilla ice cream on some cookie.  Applebee's Maple Butter Blondie is currently the enemy.  I haven't had one in awhile, don't really feel like having one, but if I get the urge to have some dessert, that'd be the first thing I go after.  Also, averaged out over 28 days, Nutrisystem is cheaper than my normal purchasing habits for food.

Edit: I think it'd be hilarious if I switched my portrait there to a Scout once I hit my goal.

Not funny once you say it.

Pushups are great, but I recommend some dumbbells for arm strength. And dumbbells for pressing as well (get a bench while you're at it). It's a better way to work up the chest early on.

At 220 or whatever you're at, you're basically trying to bench around 130 when you do a pushup. That's tough if you haven't developed that much muscle. Besides, it's not all that conducive to fat burning. You want to do as many reps as possible. Get some 30 pound weights for now, and work with that. Curls and pullovers for your arms, presses for your chest, overhead presses for your shoulders.

[edit] Oops.. didn't see that you were doing them with your knees. Not sure how much weight that would cut off...

Most of it.

Push-up aren't going to build big biceps anyway.  They are more chest and tri.  Push-ups are very easy to plateau on as well, you can easily get to a point where several hundreds of push-ups don't really do anything for you.  Don't get me wrong, they are a great exercise, you just need to do other things as well.

Yeah, I'm using dumbbells (15 lbs) on each arm.  I have *really* skinny arms.  I'll do 3 sets of 10 curls really quick before I run out of time between the variety of push-ups I'm doing (Regular, Wide, Closed).  But like I said, trying to ease into it.  I can probably do more on the curls but I don't want to overdo it.

If I could do several hundred push-ups, I think I'll be OK.  :grin:

Don't get me wrong, I can probably do more, but I've found the point where I can't push myself up anymore and it's right when I'm supposed to finish.  But each time I go back in I'm able to do a little bit more.  The transformation in 2 weeks has been inspiring.

I'll look up the other stuff.  Focus is on weight loss but I understand more muscle mass can make that happen better.


Wasn't planning on doing it.  That's why I said it.

Your doc ok you on doing the cardio?

Not really.  Told them I was doing an exercise routine.  Didn't seem concerned about specifics since I appear to be in good health.  Though, the difference in a cholesterol check from 2005 showed I gained 30 points of bad cholesterol and dropped 5 good ones.

I've done something similar to you (5'9 dropped from 230-200 atm over about 4 months) just eating lots of small portions all day during the week and on and off again cardio sessions.  Every now and then when I'm working especially hard I notice that my heart is pumping a bit too hard.  So I'm going to go get a full physical (needed one anyways) next week before I start this lifting/cardio program that Nebu has been helping me with.  You mentioned something about heart rate higher than what you might think is optimal, which is why I asked.  Once I get my next pay check, going to get me and the wife some sexy heart rate monitors.

Our cardio machines have a built-in Smart Rate where I can get the heart rate at any time.  I know what you mean, when you can feel it in your chest, but I haven't been getting there.  When I first started out I was doing what I thought was OK and I was building a hella good sweat, but the heart rate monitor said I was at maximum peak.  However after about a week or two of doing it, my heart rate dropped down into the "cardio" range doing the same thing.  I didn't feel like I was getting much of a work out and bumped up what I was doing very slightly.  Now I'm toeing the line between cardio levels and max.  I'm feeling GOOD though.  I am able to put that effort in and I'm not exhausted.  Heart rate around 160 at age 26 going on 27.

Congrats bud.  If I was around we could exercise together! *insert joke about being round*

I wouldn't fully trust those built ins on the cardio machines.  From what I can gather from everywhere, they lie.

With dumbbells,  and any free weight, form is very important.  Take your time, make sure you have full extension, don't jerk or bounce the weight.  You want to isolate the muscle group you're working on.  I've never been a fan of machines (Nautilus or whatever) because it's so easy to cheat on form and balance.

Even when I was benching 250,  I never really did more than 30 lb. dumbells because that was the weight I could do alot of slow, good form reps. 

The other problem with bad form,  if you stay with your regimen, is you really do lose alot flexibility/extension if you're not minding your form.

You mean keep the stomach sucked in, slow, controlled motions, don't lock your elbows and stuff like that? That's probably the most difficult part since discipline has never been my strong suit.  I started doing push-ups for the first time to gauge my strength but I think I was screwing around with a bad form.  So now that I've been focusing on trying to do them right instead of trying to do them, it's been harder.

What he said...

For example, as far as curls go, you're said that you're doing them quick... But you should only pull up quick. Then when you bring it down, ease out slowly. Same goes for just about anything else. Rule of thumb is to exercise more control over the negative movement of an exercise.

Or maybe that pertains to technique, not form. Form-wise, just stay erect, contract your back a bit.  :-)

On the other hand, there are cheat curls -- where you're supposed to bend... But I won't get into that.

Back straight, elbows/upper arms pulled into your sides.  Make sure that you're lifting up with your arms.  Don't cheat by lifting with your back (slump and then pull your back up) or by kicking your elbows out and helping with your shoulders.

It helps to stand against a wall,  and concentrate on trying to keep everything steady and in the same place. 

I think that the thing to remember is that with proper form you may not be able to do as many/as much weight but you will get better & faster results and most importantly won't injure yourself.

Any decent 15 dollar weight training book will give you hundreds of exercises and guidance on proper form and technique for doing them.  Remember if it hurts while you are performing the exercise, you are doing it wrong.  Slow down, use less weight and try and figure out what motion is causing the pain and adjust yourself accordingly.  Or, just go to a different exercise altogether.

It sounds like you all are going to look as if you were in prison.  Big arms, big chest, fat tummy and arse.   It sounds unpleasant.

When I do curls, I do them while sitting on an Exercise Ball.  It forces you to stay balanced and keep good form. 

Exercise balls are an excellent tool for developing form and building core strength while working other parts of the body. 

I love going to the gym and watching the college kids swing their entire body to curl an extra 5 lbs.  I don't think they understand the point of weight training beyond a way to look at the girls on the eliptical machines.  On that note, how the hell do people read while riding exercise bikes, stair-steppers, etc.?  I always thought that if you could read a magazine, there's no way in hell your doing your cardiovascular system much good.   

We are advanced human beings.  :awesome_for_real:

When doing cardio, you aren't supposed to be pushing so hard that you are straining to take the next step, like you are when doing weight training. A steady rhythm for a period of time is just as useful as long as you're at your target heart rate. That target is generally low enough that you can pay attention to other stuff, reading, listening to audiobooks (my favorite!) or watching TV.

Now, when you're starting out you can't do it, but after you've had some conditioning, it's not too hard.

I was watching some surfing documentary and they were interviewing Laird Hamilton and they filmed some of his work out routine.  The man was standing on an exercise ball while curling what looked like 50 lb dumbbells with perfect form.   :ye_gods:

B A L A N C E - balance </Juan Sanchez Villa-Lobos Ramirez>

I run almost daily and have been a competitive distance runner in the past.  I can't imagine reading while training on a stationary bicycle at 180 bpm, especially after 20 mins or so during hill intervals.  I guess it's a difference in workout goals.  If people are only interested in riding the bike as maintenence, then I suppose that's doable.  I've never trained for maintenence in my life and assume that's why it's so foreign to me. 

I'm starting to get into bodyweight stuff after being just into weights before.  There are lots of ways to make the pushup more difficult - clapping pushups, Hindu pushups, one armed pushups, leg-elevated one arm pushups, one arm/one leg pushups, handstand pushups, handstand clapping-pushups...

Check out beastskills.com, that dude IS a beast.  The video of the handstand clapping pushups is crazy.

Why does a diet thread always degenerate into a Pump You UP thread?

Fear of being perceived as girly men.

Which is funny since it's a diet thread.

 :heartbreak: is a definite diet.

I haven't been able to keep anything solid down in 2 days.

 :sad:

Conveniently, the all-liquid diet tends to go well with  :heartbreak:.  Not that it stays down any better, of course (if you're doing it right).

I think because everybody who has health advice knowns that the most effective way to loose weight is to combo dieting with exercise, not just one or the other.  Which then leads into the many questions on what sorts of exercises to do and how to do them correctly...

i fucking hate fat people

Most people who are "dieting" just want to look good naked.

This. You will lose the good along with the bad by just dieting.

For women, I don't think this matters much though. I prefer an athletic woman, but it's all good. For guys, losing fat and having no muscle tissue to speak of is almost as bad as being overweight. Looks-wise. Health-wise, you're in a better boat, but not by much.

If you just eat less your body not only loses fat but also muscle mass. Also dieting without exercise tells your body to go into energy saving mode. Less muscles means less overall energy consumption making you more likely to gain weight when you stop dieting even more so because in energy saving mode your body will accumulate more fat reserves to use for times without food.

This is one of the main causes of the yo-yo effect.

So in order to lose weight effectively you should:

- excercise regularly to increase energy consumption and to retain muscle mass

- never be hungry. You lose more weight if you eat regularly because then your body won't hold on to your fat reserves. So instead of 3 big meals eat 4 - 6 small ones. You can always eat fresh fruit or vegetables or low-fat curd or low-fat yoghurt if you are hungry.

- Don't lose too much weight at once. More than 1 Kilogram per week is unhealthy.

I usually grind levels away in some game.  I can't read and actually retain most of it while doing the nasty 30m part of my ride, but I can do the grind ;-)

You probably don't belong here then.  There are tons of fat fucks on this site who could wither your nuts just by thinking it.  Run while you still have half a brain, sunshine.  Well, I looked at your website, it's probably too late to save either half of your brain.

Wow.  Signe is my hero this week.

Danny doesn't know how to use green text.

Look, it worked! ;D

This made me want to listen to Katrina and the Waves.

Tell me it ain't so!   :grin:

I like Walking on Sunshine.  Why does everyone mock me for it? :sad:

It's okay, Lantyssa.  It could be the best song ever and I would probably dis it because it was a Eurovision Song Contest winner.  Regardless, I love it when people admit to liking something that everyone else will mock them for... you and Walking on Sunshine, me and Big Brother, Schildy and Affliction clothing... more people should do it!  We have CHARACTER! 

(http://www.watchfarscape.com/forums/images/smilies/smileypersistenceofmemory.gif)

And yet I received nothing but abuse for liking Flash Gordon!

I have been wondering about that. It has nothing to do with WoW  warlocks, does it ?

Don't worry, Reg.  It builds character when you are made to suffer for the naff things you love.  Unless it's like sheep you're loving or sommat.

You'll have to ask Schildy about haute couture for young men, Der Helm.  I still like black jeans and safety pins. 

I watch the NBA, love Steven Seagal movies, have a PS3, and I use Macs. I'm ready for ridicule!

In the "real world", I only get shit for drinking michelob ultra light.

[edit] On a second thought, I'll withhold the greatest reason to ridicule me.  :awesome_for_real:

Hmm, maybe you're right. My character is feeling kind of buff these days!

i fucking hate faggots

Feel the withering.  :x

"You’re very small, Zim.  You’re a tiny thing."

Where'd he go?

Just ignore him, he'll go away.

OMG, I might be able to do an actual pull up.  WTF.  That only took like 2 weeks.

Okay so I'm reading back and the diet doesn't seem so bad - food wise. Are you still on it and how is it going?

E d i t

I'm off it. I stopped at 90 lbs lost.

So it's two weeks later.  What are you at now?

He's at 150 lbs lost now.  He really shouldn't have pissed off that old Gypsy man.

I haven't been on the diet. I had surgery last week and the week before that. Well let's put it this way, I don't have a job and I like sandwiches. Have I gained any weight? No. But I have 8 staples in my gut too. So I can't work out. In fact, I can't work out for 3 weeks. I'm pretty much at the exact same thing, but depending on the day of the week (read, water retention or bloated or heavy food, whatever) I'm at +/- 2-3 lbs.

Sitting pretty at 200 lbs, down from 245.  Feels like my weight loss is speeding up over the last two weeks.  I think I lost 6 pounds in 2 weeks.  I'm also graduating to real push-ups with Perfect Push-up, having done two 20-day rotations on my knees.  The progress has been stellar.  I'm taking a two day break from dieting, though still working out, then I'm going to go back to it and try and get below 180.  If you look at trying to do push-ups like a video game, going for that personal high score, it's really motivating! The fact there is equipment involved sort of helps.

At some point you want to start measuring your % body fat. 

Yeah, thats actually been the main scale for me.  I have actually lost about 30 pounds since I first started this, but I've also dropped my body fat % about 5% (want to do better, need to do more cardio).  I'm doing a fair amount of weight lifting and trying to take in a lot of protein, so thats going to keep my weight from dropping as fast.

Congrats to all then.

I'm down to 191 from 232 since Jan.  Just eating less/more often and lifting 2-3 times a week.  Try and cardio a bit, but I've been slacking there.

Well since this is beginning to turn into a real dieting thread I'll chip in.

I have lost 22 Pounds in the last 9 weeeks and am now at 187 This amounts to around 1 Kilogram per week. Now I have to rebuy all of my clothes because none of them fit me any more.

I diet using Weight Watchers (ridicule me if you want)

For me most of my previous dieting tries have failed because I had no clear understanding about how much and what I could eat and still lose weight. Especially when you factor in that you have a bigger appetite when working out.

This is where Weight Watchers helps.

Nothing wrong with weight watchers (grats btw...to everyone). Seems pretty expensive though.

I use Nutrisystem.  I've found after being on that system that I can't tolerate the high caloric, normal food that is available in America.  I joke to myself that they put something addictive in the Nutrisystem to get me to keep buying there stuff, but I really do not feel like eating the stuff I normally get.  I eat less as a LIFESTYLE change and that's just so mighty to realize right there.

We had a party last night where there was some pretty bad stuff being used for snacks.  I was fine eating it but woke the next morning nearly ready to vomit.

I gave myself a pretty gnarly tummyache with my own rich cooking last night (and a bottle of wine). After eating nothing but veg (and mostly low GI carbs) and lean protein for a few months, the rich food makes me feel leaden.

I just cooked a pizza in the oven, on top of the box. Started to burn, and had a toxic smell a burnt paint in my house. I ate the pizza anyways. I'm probably going to die later.

Just a head's up.

Please post every hour so we know!  If you don't, I'll call the paramedics, just in case.

LoL'd I did.

Its about damn time Stray.

P.S.  Can I have some of you people's fat?  I keep accidently skipping dinner and drinking 4+ beers instead.  See I can't eat very early in the morning and I am forced to take a lunch at 12:30 so if I eat a late breakfast because I'm starving to death (the no dinner but 6 beers doesn't help this) at like 1030-1100 I'm not hungry enough to eat proper lunch.  So I eat half a lunch and another half right when or right before I take off for home.  Which means I'm not hungry for dinner until like 8pm-10pm.  Which means I've been drinking on a fairly empty stomach since I got home at 6:30 which means I'm drunk by the time I'm hungry which means I can't be bothered to cook because I'd probably fuck that up, so hell, why not drink more?   Next thing I know I wake up and its time to go to work and I haven't eaten since 5:30 but if I eat anything before 10 I'll get hella sick...

Vicious cycles 4tL?

You don't need our fat.  With all that beer you drink now, in about 10 years a big old pot belly will pop out spontaneously, regardless of the lack of food.   I don't know why they call it a pot belly.  If you gave up beer and only smoked pot, you'd have nothing to worry about in 10 years... at least regarding your tummy.

Hoax, I gotta friend just like you. Just a little older. What Signe says is true. You'll get that pot belly eventually... BUT... The rest of you will be decrepit and skinny. Pretty much like an old geezer's body. It's not pretty.


I feel fine... Crashed out for some reason though. Never do that at that time of the day.

Didn't see this thread before today, so a small necro here.

Having been pretty overweight for most of my life (thanks mom and dad for that Pong while I was like 2-3 years old!) I got fed up with low self-esteem on the visual front and started doing something about it last year. I was at nearly 300 pounds last year, had zero stamina nor will to do any physical exercise and ate extremely unhealthy food. Several litres of Coke, chips, chocolates, candy every single day and regular meals next to it. Traveled away from home for three months to get out of the old habit front and worked out and ran every single day (first weeks of running I lost my breath after 100 meters) and had massive cramps in my legs, but kept pushing. After three months I was down to 253 pounds and had lost a big precent of body fat and gained muscle which was starting to get visible.

Now I'm at 220 pounds and have some body fat left and high muscle precentage which is very visible and I've increased my aerobic / cardio workout to 6 days a week and decreased anaerobic to 3 days a week where I was at previously 5 to get rid of the last body fat, but its very tough. Are there any supplements that people have personally experienced and done which could help this process ? Have never used anything except CLA earlier and I've read and heard tons from my quasi-medic friend who is a previous steroid junkie recommended me various stuff, but would like to hear from... Safer sources.

I don't know about supplements, but it sounds like you're doing awesome dude.

70lbs in one year? That's incredible.  Very proud!

Seriously, that freakin' rocks. Even if I am just a stranger, I think you deserve mucho pats on the back!

yeah, but those bitch tits suck.

I'd prefer a big ol' belly over gynacomastia any day.  what really sucks is when you combine beer + pot = big belly and boobies.

I'm still holding to the Keith Richards theory that cheese is the most evil thing in the world. Beer, pot, heroin may be OK.

Pretty sure it's the jailbait groupies that keep you young.

Wait.  Wait.  Wait.

Pot will give me breasts and no one bothered to mention this!?!  Damn you War on Drugs!

Manbreasts.  Pay attention.

Complete and utter bollocks.  Throw some studies my way and I can throw more your way.  Still a myth, like most of them.

There we go.  A thread on man breasts is the third sign of the apocolypse.

I went to summer camp with a boy who had two or three (I don't remember) extra nipples under each of his regular nipples.  They weren't exactly lined up with each other, but almost.  We were only seven but I'm sure he must have been smoking something.  Or maybe I was.  Regardless, I couldn't ever not stare at him when it was time for swimming.  I don't think I've made this up.  I will confirm with my sister later, just in case.

The last two months or so, I've actually dropped more weight than I intended to.  I've been completely redoing my backyard; so between moving thousands of pounds of earth by shovel/wheelbarrow and placing about 700 60lb landscaping bricks/blocks and laying sod, I've gotten a helluva workout.  

The coup de grace has been the root canal I just had.  I'm a complete pussy when it comes to my teeth, and haven't eaten much at all.

You're absolutely right, Signe.  The reports on marijuana and gynacomastia are all over the damn place.  However, the use of CB1/2 agonists to study changes in circulating endocrines strongly suggest that activation of these receptors can induce the development of breast tissue in males. 

Regardless of whether its true in the big picture is kind of arbitrary.  If an individual wants to do something (i.e. smoke) they should, but they should also accept the consequences of those actions.  I like to smoke, if i get bitch tits oh well.  That kind of thingie.   :grin:   and yes "thingie" is the official scientific nomenclature. hehe

You do not get breasts from smoking pot, ffs. You might get emphysema, cancer, etc. But you're inhaling smoke, so that's kind of a gimme.
Or you could use the millions of walking case studies that prove it wrong. Fucking eggheads.

Lung damage surely (emphysema, etc), cancer i doubt.


Dirty Hippies.

Oh.  Damn.  I was getting my hopes up.  Thanks for letting me know the truth before I became a bum and sat around smoking all day.

Wise from ur gwave.

I just sent the diet information, after a few months (SORRY OK) to a bunch of people. If you wanted it and didn't get it via pm, just email me, schildATf13.net. I'll keep the file on my desktop for a few weeks for easy sending. If you have more questions, email me them also. No, I will not send you my actual diet. I really don't think it would work for you. But I'll be willing to answer questions if you decide to do the diet. Like how to cope with ANGER.  :why_so_serious:

So you're saying that you are no longer an angry young man?  You know that's not true!  You would be lost without your anger.

Did Styx inspire your post?

Styx!   :ye_gods:   Don't make me kick your ass.

Clearly you have too much time on your hands.

Me?

You're kidding yourself if you don't believe it.

Don't stop believin'.

Wrong band.

Fooling yourself if you don't believe it.

Styx, Journey, REO Speedwagon, Foghat, they're all really the same band.  Sort of  like Poison, Skid Row and Cinderella, and that lot. 

Arena Rock rules :rock_hard:

whats your weight now?

Stable. I still hover 5 pounds up and down from 223. Lowest is 215ish, highest is 228.

I didn't bother dieting the second time wiht the surgery coming up and then the move. it was hopeless, lots of drinking happened during that period also. And some heavy medication.

Thinking about doing it again since I'm working from home now though.

Best of luck dude.

Is a diet a good idea if you can't keep the weight off?  I've read somewheres (no idea where of course) that going on and off diets can be really bad for long term weight loss if you don't keep the weight off.

Uh, I've kept the weight off. I haven't gone over my final weight in any substantial way whatsoever since I stopped dieting. And I've had some shitty binge eating and drinking periods. It's all about managing your intake. Not hard after you've dieted like this.

Really? what did you start at?  230 sounds high to me.

308.

I've got a big frame. Anything below I'm thinking 180-190 and I'll look deathly thin. 190/180 with muscle pushing me up to 200 would be great probably.

Or you can do a percent body fat test.  I started out as a fat 245 pound 5' 10 guy a few years ago, then I lost 50 pounds to 195.  Then I started doing more weights and less cardio and built up to my current 203.  My Percent body fat is actually lower now than it was at 195.

Point being, weight doesn't tell the whole story.  BMI has the same problem.

He's lying... PURE bone.

You sound a lot like me on the weight front. I'm sitting at a nice 310 at the moment and I'm a pretty big guy. 6'4" with a large frame.

I need a good diet. I mainly need exercise though.  :uhrr:

Man I have been working out quite a bit lately and am losing weight. I am surprised cause I am running less and boxing more and still losing descent amounts of weight.

I'll send you the info I sent people on my diet. When I was at 310, I didn't call it "nice." :P

After putting on the ~10 pounds (depending on how "empty" I am it fluctuates 6-11 pounds) I gained after we quit smoking, my weight hasn't changed at all in 9 months, and I only watch what I eat once in awhile. I think I just cook more vegetables and lean protein, and that's always healthier. A little bacon for flavor never hurt anything! I've also switched from diet coke/bourbon cocktails to wine.

Diet coke/Bourbon is probably better for you in terms of weight.

You're much better off drinking red wine as far as your health goes.

The difference would be negligible and hinge almost entirely upon how much bourbon you put in the drink versus how much wine you put in the glass.

For instance, a 3.5 oz glass of wine has about 80-90 calories. A 1 oz shot of hard alcohol is about 70. If the difference between these two becomes a large factor in your weight, your liver is going to be a bigger problem than your gut.

Fake sugar triggers your brain into craving more sweets, since it was robbed of its insulin spike after consuming the fake stuff.

I've just been more into the taste of wine lately, though.

Quitting smoking made you soft.

Heeyyy. I'm still a stone-cold bitch and you know it.

If by bitch you mean totally soft, yes.

I'm only soft in the right places.  :drillf:

Don't mean to derail, but what kind of wine ya drinking lately?

The stuff that has diet pills in it.

Mmmm, methamphetawine.

I've been hitting the Sauv Blanc pretty hard, but am easing into Pinot Noir with the cooler evenings.

Bacon and butter are two things that you don't need a ton of to flavour something.  Which is nice because in mass quantities they'll probably shorten your life significantly. 

I love vodka.  A LOT.  Unfortunately, I rarely drink alcohol.  I could SO be a vodka lush.

Yeah, it's a good thing none of my close friends are into drinking or hitting the bars much.  Cape Cods all night long when we do.  If I'm feeling safe and know I don't have to drive... :uhrr:

I was for about 3 years. That'll put on a gut.