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I don't remember the one I had years ago being this good.  I'm 24, my buddy is 21, both pallies.  We're doing ogres in Duskwood.  We fuck up and pull a pair of 27s and a 28.  Kill them all.  Spent a little more time farming level 30s.  We're caught up to each other level-wise now, and routinely beat up elites five levels higher than us.

At least around the high 20s and low 30s, a pair of decently played paladins seem to be pretty much invincible against anything but stupidly lopsided odds.

Yep. A buddy and I were playing a pally-hunter-cat duo the other night, and it was really gratifying how quickly we could mow through anything. I just wish pally's could taunt better - probably less of an issue with a two-pally duo.

Using your +agro from holy dmg buff and judgment of command should get good initial agro if you have any points in ret at all.

I run with a warlock a lot too.  I slap Blessing of Salvation on her, hit my Righteous Fury, then let fly with Judgement of Command and Consecration.  Seems to work pretty well.  I dropped my first 10 into Holy to get Spiritual Focus, and now I'm going all Retribution.  Vindication is fucking awesome.  Minus up to 15% of the target's total stats, with a duration and proc rate great enough to keep it up more or less constantly?  Holy shit.

EDIT:  And Vindication is PASSIVE.  You just put points into it, and from then on your melee hits fuck up the stats of whatever you hit by default.  Woot.

Yeah, Ret got some pretty nice buffs recently, including the removal of +spelldam to SoC in the latest patch.  Build 'em up like a melee dpser now and you will pwn shit hard.  Most folks still say "lolret" but fuck me they HURT when they hit you now.

I'll pass that on. I was actually the hunter in the duo.  :grin:

Vindications problem is it doesn't work on the things where it would *really* be nice. IE: Bosses and tough elites in dungeons. :(

I run a Prot paladin, and my wife runs a not-really-anything-spec'd paladin.  I picked the class for her since it seems to synergize well with my own paladin, allowing her to not have to be very good at playing the game but still be able to have fun squishing monsters (oh, and the horsey.  She loves the horsey.)  She runs around like a loose cannon most of the time since so she'll grab aggro from things now and then.  It's not really a problem, she's crunchy enough to survive until I bail her back out of it.

Pallies are wonderful to lvl.  Very safe and if you spec ret during that time, not too slow.  Other classes are much faster and almost as safe though.  Anyway...

The issue I have with my Pally is that I felt the requirement to pigeonhole myself into one of three rolls at 60-70.  I chose to go healing since that is the role I get the most satisfaction from in groups, but would like to still be able to provide tanking or dps on occasions that require it.  This all leads into my long winded post about free respecs, blah blah.

Now, if you don't care about anything more complicated than 5 man instances from 60+ then you're fine with whatever you want to do.  My issue all started with 5-mans and ended with raiding really.  You really do have to provide a good role in those cases and cannot just "wing it" like we'd all like to do.

Go go design for min/max hardcore catass.  Ah well, I've learned to just build up multiple groups of armor/weapons to suite my purposes.  I have my healing set of course.  I'm halfway through a tank set.  I'm 1/4 the way for a DPS set.  I just now started working on my PvP/Healer/Tank set.

PvP:  Right now I can do pretty well standing on the flag in AB or EoTS, heal, and/or capture, but my large lack of PvP gear makes me a bit squishy against veteran groups.

Having never played a paladin before, and seriously considering starting one to round out my stable of alts (i think a paladin is the only character class i dont have that is over level 30), does anyone have any advice on how to spec talents up to, say, level 40 or so, for a viable ret leveling build?   I generally have no clue how to spec a class in the early stages untill i have managed to play them for a bit and see how they work.

Well me, I dump my first ten points into Holy to get max Spiritual Focus.  Being able to cast reliable heals even while taking a beating is a god damned lifesaver I would never consider doing without.  Then I rush for Seal of Command.  By then I'm like 30.

So you have three distinctive rolls you can choose from and that is bad compared to other classes that only have one role ever? Or am I misinterpreting you now?

That was my thought.  There's not many classes that can say they get different roles depending on spec.

The Warrior has 2 and the 'hybrids' (druid Shaman) have kinda 2/3.

 

And then there's rogues with a grand total of 1.  You can do combat damage, stealthy damage or um... some other damage.

Same with Mages.  Burn, Freeze or, er, concentrate.

Hunters are wildly different though.  Pet can do damage, range can do damage or Forums can do damage.

Wildly different trees.

First laugh of the day.

lol.

Forum Tree.

Unlike WUA I generally take Seal of Command first. Verigan's Fist + Seal of Command at level 21 is pure sex (Alliance only, unfortunately).

My suggestions:

Tier 1 - Benediction, 5/5
Tier 2 - 2/2 Imp Judgment. 3/3 Imp Seal of Crusader
Tier 3 - 1/1 Seal of Command, 5/5 Conviction, 3/3 Pursuit of Justice, 3/3 Vindication
Tier 4 - 3/3 Two-handed weapon specialization, 1/1 Sanctity Aura.
Tier 5 - 5/5 Vengeance, 3/3 Sanctified Judgment
Tier 6 - 3/3 Sanctified Seals, 1/1 Repentance
Tier 7 - 2/5 Fanaticism
Tier 8 - Crusader Strike.

Well, my issue with this is more from the standpoint that I have to completely choose one path whole-hearted even if I have 3 distinctive talent trees.  As a healadin, it really doesn't matter much if I put on tank gear or dps gear.  I just become a really bad healadin at that point.  Same for the other trees.  Although, a Retadin with healing gear can do pretty well as a back up healer, but never a main (in anything higher than a 5-man.)

It is a weak argument I know.  It is ony a small issue I have that doesn't really affect my choice since I continue to play my healadin as my main.  I just know that druids, for example, can do a pretty good job of being a healer/dps no matter what they chose for talents.  It is all in the gear they wear at the time.  The same can be said for priests and shaman.  I have alts in all those classes and noticed a huge difference.  No, they can't do all 3 roles, but 2 is better than 1.

Rogues don't change roles based on spec but they do play much differently. I'd rather have that, honestly.

Plus, they have the lowest concern for multiple gear sets compared to the other classes, which isn't bad either.  No distractions that way.

Yeah, although getting appropriate weapons in kara was the biggest pain for me. I was damned lucky to have a spiteblade drop because elsewise I got jack. Good thing season 2 arena gear wasn't rating-limited.

That's pretty much what everyone's agreeing here.  When Talents are like that, I find it makes the character easier and better to play.

I fucking HATE having to respec Sil when I want to PvP vs Tank.  It's fucking clownshoes.

Hit 40.  Spent all the money I didn't have to spend on a horse on plate instead.  Woo.  Ran through Razorfen Downs with a group consisting of me, two other 40 pallies, and a 40 lock.  Tore shit up.  Was fun.  I like this better than my shaman, I must say.

I'm 23 on my pally now and sitting in Astraanar. Things always start to bog down a bit for me in the 20s because I'm not yet to where Jame's leveling guide kicks in. Any tips for cranking through those levels?

Have your Verigan's Fist yet? It's great in the low 20s if you can find a babysitter to help you get the instanced bits.

I avoided Barrens completely this time around on my little horde.  Did Ashenvale, Stonetalon, Hillsbrad, 1000 Needles quest rotations.

For alliance, it's Redridge, Wetlands, Ashenvale, Hillsbrad.

Get a mage buddy to port you to Shat City so you can bind there.  Makes it much easier to float around the continents.

True story.  I need to do this on Venture Co.

Good call, I'll do that. Thanks.

Switch zones frequently and do green quests in each.  You don't get bogged down on orange shit, you feel like a superhero tearing up greens, and you don't get so sick of the scenery.

Ok, now that I have my healadin better geared for PvP, I'm really enjoying my role in BG's.  I'm harder than hell to kill and keep my teams up and killing longer which is normally death to the opposing side.  I usually turn the battle so much that I turn into target number one.  The problem is, I can heal myself too.  While an entire group of horde try to kill me, my cohorts kill them and we remain victorious.

Yes, my experience changed dramatically with better gear, so it certainly is a gear checked experience, but now that I'm farther along it is great.  Now I'm trying to imagine what it will be like with a full Gladiator suit on and other nice little PvP trinkets (the one that gets you out of stuns is my next buy.)  Time will certainly tell.

I just got on a 2v2 team too.  We'll see if my lack of dps, but increase in survivability will be enough to get anywhere.  My partner is a feral druid with tons of purple PvP and PvE items, so we should do fairly well I think.

Go wild and get the expensive one. 2 minute vs 5 minute cooldown, and it has resilience.

Resilience is your friend.

Yep, that's my plan.  I have my chestpiece.  I'm getting my shoulders next so I get the two piece bonus on res.  Then I'll grab that trinket with the additional res and reduced cooldown.

I was going to get the trinket after the chestpiece, but just with additional stats and res from the chest I'm far above where I was.  The shoulders will add a ton to my general survivability.  The trinket will be icing on the cake.  Oh I can't wait to piss people off.  Gonna be good.

The biggest problem I've had in arenas is the sheer number of ways OTHER than stuns you can shut a pally down.  Since we have a long cast time (for pvp) on our heals, and it's obvious that's ALL you are once you start healing, good teams can counter you quickly and just ignore you from that point.  The biggest mistake most folks make is actually trying to kill the pally instead of leaving him for last.

The most infuriating one in a 3v3 was the Warrior, Druid, Mage team.  They were good at rotating CC on me to keep immunity from kicking in.  Sheep, pummel, cyclone, imp. counterspell, back to pummel, then cyclone then sheep.   Even with a trinket, blessing of sac. for sheeps and my bubble they kept me locked-down and all I could do was watch my team die.

Bastards.

I hated that team even more than the shadow priest, holy priest, + lock combo that tore us up before that. "Mana? What mana?"

QFT.

They nerfed the hell out of Holy pallies with the BoSac nerf back when Arenas first started because they dominated the lower brackets. Warrior + Holy Pally meant easy 2000+ rating. Now that everybody has L2P the holy pally is the worst healer in 2v2 and 3v3. No HoTs and no CC of their own, and too easy to lock down as you experienced. And the so-called drain teams are annoying as hell but from all indications Mana Burn is going to be nerfed to hell and back so we'll see.

Worse than shaman?

For PvP I've gone completely to using Flash Heal.  I can time it just right so that I get exactly 1.5 seconds per cast.  With the gear I have now, I'm healing at around 1500-1700 per flash and critting quite a bit up to 2100.  The quickness helps get in heals between stuns and other CC like mentioned.

Yes, a well coordinated team will keep a healadin locked down quite well, but with better gear I've noticed and can last quite a bit longer.  When I'm in that situation, I just try to keep myself alive as long as possible because I know if they are paying that much attention to me, they aren't paying attention to my teamates.

Mana burn really sucks and is death for Paladins.  I'm trying to keep potions on me, but for most situations it isn't worth the cost.  For Arenas it might be worth it, but BG's would just be a waste.  You're going to die.  The potions would just prolong it.  I do try to stun the priests/locks that are burning my mana, but that is so temporary and has a 45 second cooldown.  My bubble?  Even longer cooldown.  I can't kill them and I can't stop them from healing, sooo.  I just heal as much as I can as fast as I can before I die or stand there useless without mana.

As somebody else mentioned, any kind of CC in these games is frustrating and can get out of control.  It seems to me that there should be a global cooldown on how long a character can be CC'ed.  Perhaps you get a debuff after being the victim of any type of CC that won't allow you to be CC'd for the next 3-5 seconds.  I can't even tell you how many times I've been completely useless for MINUTES due to just a few other characters keeping me that way in coordination.

Mace rogues are just evil for a Pally.  Two of them are instant death.

Yep, but everything you've been speaking of is BGs.  The Arenas really and truly are a completly different experience.  Certian things, like consumables, can't be used at all. Other things, like healthstones, you can count on every time, so long as you have a lock in your team.  NOT using bubble/ hammer is a mistake dwarfed only by using them at the wrong time.

It's fun, but it can also be much more frustrating than BGs because when you lose, you can blame only yourself and your friends.  :grin:

I have to admit I have not stepped foot into an arena fight yet.  I'm now on a 2v2 and will be doing that this week, but Karazhan runs keep foiling my plans.  Hey, at least I'm getting better PvE purples.  While not PvP gear, they certainly help.  Got my set helm piece last night.  I'll have another 100 healing once I get it buffed tonight.  That'll top me off at around 1800 +healing unbuffed and a huge mana pool that lasts through mana burns longer anyway.

Completely agree on good timing with bubble/hammer though.  Life and blood.

You should tell them, they'll certainly fix that.

Ok second worse, my bad.

Some charts on paladin score vs team size. You might be better off in a 5v5.

http://vhairi.blogspot.com/

I understand about 5v5, but it really comes down to availability.  Most of the time 2v2 and 3v3 matches get together at least weekly.  The chances of me and the people I run with all getting together and feeling like arenas at the same time is way lower for 5v5.  Plus, I'm finding it hard to join a 5v5 because more of the people I know already belong to a full roster.

I get up to 2 hours per night to do one thing and one thing only, so it's hard to squeak in even 2v2 let alone anything more.  I'll see what happens.  I figure it will be a good learning experience anyway.  If I'm really bad with my Pally, I have a lock, rogue, and priest I could use too.  Maybe those will be my arena characters while my Pally is strictly BG's at least until some other nerf/buff comes through to change everything again.

The problem with my alts is that they aren't even 1/2 as well geared as my Paladin at this point.  He's full of Karazhan level purples with one Gladiator chestpiiece.  I think my necklace and a trinket is the only thing that is blue on me now.  I've played my other alts in BG's and it can be .... frustrating in comparison.

(http://www.bsu.edu/web/nmmakridakis/images/stephanii.jpg)

Heh, my rogue fears paladins the least of all the classes, even ret paladins.  It's just too easy to get away from them and just ignore them in general.