f13.net

When: February 13th, 2008 @ 7 PM
Where: The Thirsty Bear, 661 Howard St, San Francisco, CA
Why: not?

 Despite a bunch of us living in the Bay Area, we've never really had a F13 get-together. The reasons behind this are lost to the mists of history. Many theorize that "Lazy Ass Syndrome" may have had something to do with it. But no longer! Come, one and all, converge on the City of Gayngels and make merry with other F13ers. There will be beer.

 :drill:

Der attendancen:

Confirmed: Samwise, Hoax, me, diivox
Possible: MaceVanHoffen, Quinton

Edit: For those of you actually attending, I'll bring along my money hat so we can be identified.

 :pedobear: (http://www.3dgladiators.com/forums/3dgpimages/smilies/beer.gif)

(http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/112/tripst5.jpg)

DO IT.   :grin:

GDC is the week after. I have an air mattress. Just sayin'.  :oh_i_see:

Won't be done with my diet. Not coming.

You better hope that there isn't any traffic

Heh the Thirsty Bear huh? My main dive is the "Thursty" Turtle down here.

(http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/8672/tosanfranko6.png)

Edit:

But, at $140/hr I don't think I'll make it. If only I was there for business already...

Hey Viin can you fly by Phoenix and pick us up  :awesome_for_real:

See that bullseye over Phoenix? That means they shoot airplanes down there.

I lol'd.

I think I actually went to the Thirsty Bear the one convention we did in San Fran. Yea, must have - just looked at the maps and its right down the street from the Muscone Convention center.

Oh well, don't do that no more. SF is too far to go to a bar for one night.

Set one up in WA and I might make the drive.

What Bunk said, but for Chicago.

I'd propose the Montrose Saloon, the Edgewater or the (expensive) Hop Leaf.

I think people in other areas should feel free to organize their own F13 Day events.  Massive bonus points if you provide a webcam feed.

I think I'm the only F13 person in southern NJ.

Doesn't help that I don't normally drink.

(http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3452/mapowqg8.jpg)

Am I winning yet?  :drill:

But, I think I'll be out there around the first/second week in May for a literature conference. I'd be happy to drink a beer with anyone out there.

As cool as that idea is, a gathering of just Morat and I won't be much of an F13 Day event.  I suppose we're better off than poor Strazos though.

Okay, so I'm in Pittsburgh, PA. Nor'easters and East Coasters, Mid-Atlantics, and assorted others within proximity, speak up. I need locations. We'll see if we can't organize something on this side of the continent, if only to prevent me from having to fly to SF for a single drinking night.

Make a 7hr drive, get trashed, pass out, make another 7hr drive.  Sounds like a god damn plan :drill:.

:hello_thar:

Heh. 

Someone from the northeast probably beats it, but only barely.  But hey, there's probably more people in your state.  There's only two other people in SC that own computers.

For all those who haven't committed yet, you will get the chance to meet the one and only Hoax, which, come on, you know you want to.

 :awesome_for_real:

For real though, this should be pretty fun and I've never actually been to Thirsty Bear.

What the fuck dude. You work in town and haven't gone to the T-Bear? :uhrr:

I'll be in the Phoenix area then, perhaps we should just have all the regional f13 meetups on that day.

I'll try to be there, especially as I'm local (I'm up in Sonoma County).  The Thirsty Bear is one of my favorite places in SF.

Melbourne, Australia.

I will bring the Money Hat so people can identify us.

Edit: Added that to the OP for latecomers.

So this is now the first nationwide f13 meetup weekend? The weekend of my birfday?

YORU, YOU'RE SO SWEET.

Fucking west coasters. I swear to god if I have to fly out to Cali for this, you had better show up, schild, or I will make a stop in AZ on the way home. It won't be pleasant.

You can just come to arizona.

Or set up another one.

So are you going to California for this one or not? If not, I'll just plan a later trip to AZ and meet the crew that lives near there.

Nope. Can't. Diet won't be finished. The Arizona meetup might be the next weekend, after my diet ends.

My attempts to do one of those make mapquest and google maps break.

Since I'm further away then both anyone in Germany and anyone presently in Korea (and even anyone in Sydney or Brisbane) I may be the.. erm. winner. If winning means being the furtherest away from SF.

yay.

I can't trace a map from here in Crazyland to SF.  :oh_i_see:

I guess I can see about buying Paelos lunch on that day.

I may be a little late...

South Jersey here also. :(

(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u306/mashadarbg/Map.jpg)

Thank you for playing.  :grin:
I can't even get google to draw a pretty line I had to make that one myself :(

Eastern European F13ers!

I didn't know we had any!

Represent, yo!

I know there's also a Romanian dude lurking around.

I still maintain I'm further.

Surely you're all beaten by the Australians ?

Or is my Geography/Geospatials confusing me ?

I thought SF WAS crazyland.

Oh, and, i cant make it.

(http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6020/tripmaphl2.th.png) (http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tripmaphl2.png)

We could probably do a gulf coast one. there's a sizeable number of southeast people here, but I fear the combination of most of them in one place.

Sidney gets me by less than 1000 miles.

Melbourne (A) is an 882km drive further away then Sydney (B).

(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg143/azazel_f13/f13gettogether.jpg)

Anyone from Adelaide or Perth here?

Now I have the Neighbours theme song stuck in my head.  Cheers.  Thanks a lot.

It would be best if the Gulfs and Atlantics compromised and met in Atlanta.  Because I'm stuck here.

That's when good neighboors..become...good...

22314 here.

Why does that map show where I live as a giant green blob below Montreal?

That's Adirondack State Park dude.

So, Schild, about those shirts?  :drill:

"In F13, game reviews you!"

You live here in NY? I live in NYC. The fiance and I are doing a week long backcountry hike through the High Peaks region of the Adirondacks this spring.

We've already climbed Algonquin and Wrights peaks...going to hit Marcy and a few others this time.

Then hit Rainier in WA and Denali up in Alaska.

We should do an east coast get together. Maybe mid-way? Outer Banks of NC? Or in the DC area?

Actually,  I've climbed the 46 a few times.  My family is pretty big on hiking and cllimbing in the Adirondacks, though I've been pretty inactive the last few years.  Lots of great hikes in the Adirondacks. 

Climbing in autumn is just amazing.

i am the ultimate lurker, and have had no interactions with this board other than reading it when i really really dont have anything else to read, but i live in santa rosa, and am more than happy to get drunk with random strangers from the internet for no apparent reason.

see you there

Huh, Mr. Bloodworth lives near me.  I thought all the f13 community pretty much had a mass exodus from VA/MD.

Hampton Roads 4tw!   :awesome_for_real:

I bet he's going to show up and sit at the table behind you guys, and just listen in on your conversations all night.

Why a Wednesday?

Hump Day?  :ye_gods:

Out of curiosity, what exactly is this fabtabulous diet I keep hearing you say your on?



Oh, and I live in Berkeley, so I COULD make it.  Maybe.  We'll see  :-P

If I can get there from Alameda, you can get there from Berkeley.   :grin:  The place is walking distance from BART.

February 13. Feb 13. F. 13.

Ooooooooooh

Why not Foctober?

Foctober just sounds like you're saying fuck October. I rather like October... Octoberfest, leaves, beer. Did I mention beer?

It is possible that I'll be sufficiently not-lazy as to wander up to the city from Mountain View.

7PM is, of course, absolutely horrible as far as driving from down here goes, though it'd probably take longer to deal with Caltrain + BART.  I lose either way.

- Q

You guys are having my birthday party on the wrong side of the country  :uhrr:

Reconfirming that I'll be in the area on the 13th. Y'all best show up.

*in*

Sure, I guess I'll show up after work.  Other than the money hat, how exactly are we finding each other?  Do I walk in and ask for Party of F13?

You should all carry red carnations.

I'll be wearing my F13 shirt.

Look for the obvious internet nerd group, as well as the moneyhat and F13 shirt. The T-bear is a fairly upscale location. We'll stand out like sore thumbs.

I'll also try to put a word in with the front desk, telling them to direct anyone looking for "F13" at me.

I'll have a f13 shirt too, but it wont be as glaringly obvious as the one with green tie dye (how the fuck do you spell that), it will also be under a dress shirt, should get there around six.

I'll be there 7ish.

Six? I thought we were on for seven.

Whatever, I'll hop on a train in a bit and be there at or a little after six.

I'm showing up 7ish.

Oh well I can hang out until 7, I forgot what the first post said a long time ago.  Six was my straight from work time.  I might stop and grab some food, fucking starving. 

*really wishes he read the first post before he last posted, still hasn't read it as he types this*

Okay, good, 7. I was quite literally just about to bolt for the door and sprint for the train. I'll be there at 7.

Aaaaaaaand Fuck.  I've successfully been roped/guilt tripped into helping out with something tonight.  Not going to be able to make it.  :crying_panda:

Good fun was had by all. I just hope no one woke up today with a hangover. :awesome_for_real:

I live!

Where's Hoax?  I seem to remember him being the one with the camera.

Yeah was very fun, fuck my phone camera, I do have a picture, at work currently, also I just looked at it and it makes me seem like the crazy guy and that hardly seems accurate or fair.  Secondly I feel that there is no way that only 1/4 phones had a camera, liars.  I'll upload/post this one tonight if somebody bugs me on Steam about it.

I did get a bit drunk, eating only a small Quiznos before I got there wasn't the best plan, should have eaten more of the very spicy but quite good potatoe thingies.  Ever notice how when your a bit outside your comfort area you become much more of a lightweight?  Or perhaps its the reverse, that when doing the same old same old you gain a cast iron liver?  I did devour some food once I got home before I passed out.  So I went to work an hour late, but not terribly worse for wear.  Great beer, good times looking forward to doing something around GDC time that doesn't involve $700 cover charges.

Thumbs down at all of you who were too pussy to come out.  While it was strange referring to a internet forum in casual conversation it was quite enjoyable hearing meatspace (I term I adore) in that same conversation like three times and meeting some cool guys and having some good beers.

tl;dr:

4 x  :awesome_for_real: 's +  :drill:

People who wimped out are lame.  Beer was good.

Yeah, I suck... I haven't gotten out of the office before 11pm any day this week, though work is obviously a lousy excuse.

Did you just call me a Romanian?

This means WAR, sir!!! :p


-- Z.

No pictures?  Some of us have to live vicariously, you know!   :pedobear:

this post was so full of truthiness, that i paused and said, "yeah, i like the site, but... he's right."

thank you sir for shining a light on the error of my ways. and to those who actually went: pics plz

I don't understand why you use shift for punctuation but not for capitalization.


GRAMMAR SNAKE IS ANGRY!

I bet it's just his style!

Longtime reader, first second time poster.  I'll be moving up to San Francisco (from San Diego) to start a new job in the city at the beginning of next month.  This is probably a terrible thread for the question, but could you SF denizens help me out by naming some neighborhoods to check out and some to avoid?  I've done some research, so I'm currently looking at Pacific Heights, Potrero Hill, Nob Hill, and the Mission (though I guess that should be low on the list  :pedobear:).  If it helps, the office is by the city side of the Bay Bridge.

Avoid Potrero Hill unless you like living next to the projects. The Mission is great if you need the local Crack-mart to be open 24/7, else avoid.

The Richmond, the Sunset, Pacific Heights, the Haight (upper or lower), the Hayes Valley, Nob Hill, South Beach. All nice areas. There's some good parts of the Western Addition too.

Of course, none of that's taking budget into account. The shittier areas are, generally, much cheaper.

I looked into a job in San Fran a few years ago.  The real estate market scared me off.  How the hell does anyone afford a house there?  It's out of control.

Yoru is a fancy lad.   Potrero Hill and the Mission are both perfectly nice neighborhoods (with the exception of a rough patch around 16th and Mission).  

If you've got the budget for Nob Hill, though, that's what I'd go for; get something on or near California street and you can take the cable car to work every day.  (Or walk if you want to build legs of steel.)

Neb: either you rent or you suck it up, take out a jumbo mortgage, and eat ramen for the next 30 years.

Samwise forgot to note that SF is one of the nicest cities in America, no matter what anyone says.


Fuck Florida.  :uhrr:

Yeah, you can say that, I suppose. Let's play Anecdote Theater!

A friend of mine lives on Potrero Hill. His house, despite the security system and big fuckoff steel entry grate, was broken into and burgled a few months ago. The culprits are thought to be some guys from the projects on the south side of Potrero Hill. They got away with several thousand bucks worth of stuff.

Another friend of mine lives in the Mission just off 16th and Valencia. She bitches about the crackheads, dealers and pushers that she has to walk by on the way to work. It's also one of the areas singled out by the SFPD's gang unit for enforcement.

YMMV.

I work in real estate & before that worked in property management (rental market) for 2.5 years.  Are you looking to rent or buy?  I can help either way.

That would be the specific rough patch that I mentioned (Valencia is 2 short blocks over from Mission).   :grin:  I haven't been through there in a while, but my recollection is that there's a radius of maybe three blocks around the 16th and Mission BART station that it's best to steer clear of.  The other couple of square miles are fine.

Not sure about Potrero Hill except that I've never seen as much of a spot of graffiti in the areas I've walked around, nor have I heard anything bad about it from any of my friends who live there.  Maybe there's one particular blemish on it that I've just never seen?  My advice would be to avoid the areas with big steel gates.

Put it this way: I've lived in "rough" parts of the city for most of my life (the Tenderloin and Visitacion Valley, mostly, and for a few years I lived on a block in the Ingleside that the Chron called "the worst street in the city" for reasons I still don't understand), and I know more people that have been involved in serious car accidents than I do people who have been the victims of any sort of street crime.  I figure I'm at more risk getting behind the wheel of a car in a "good" neighborhood than I am walking through a "bad" neighborhood on foot.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.  I think it's safe to say that Potrero and the Mission have dropped lower on my list of sections to check out.  Since I managed to conveniently leave it out of my other post, my specific rent range is somewhere in the 800-1250/mo area--I would definitely be looking for roommates.

As an aside, what's it like to have a car in the area?  I figure parking availability can vary wildly between the neighborhoods, but what can I expect to pay for a garage spot--assuming it's necessary.  It figures that I go without a car for years--living in urban areas--then move to SoCal, where it's a necessity, and now back to urban.

Hoax, are you more into property rental, or do you have some connections (or advice) for rooms?

I'd start here (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/roo/sfc?query=&minAsk=800&maxAsk=1250&neighborhood=).


Parking downtown is nuts.  You should talk to your HR person and find out where commuters tend to park and how much it costs, but I'd say figure on spending $30 a day if you drive to work.  You're much better off living on a light rail, cable car, or major bus line and spending the $2 a day or however much it is now for a bus pass.  California and Geary are both streets with very good bus lines running down their length if you go for a place in Nob Hill, Pacific Heights, or the Richmond.

Ah, I meant to imply that I was looking for an idea of where to leave my car during the week (or, at least, a general idea of how much it would cost)--unless street parking is easier than I was lead to believe.  I intend to walk/bike/ride the bus to work.

It'll depend on what part of the city you live in.  Residential areas will usually have some street parking if you're willing to circle around for a while to find it (and get a residential parking permit so you can leave your car there during the day).  An area like Nob Hill (where you're practically living downtown) might be tougher.  As a general rule, the higher the property values are per square foot the more difficult it'll be to park your car.

Here's a quick rundown based on your budget:

$800 solo gets you nothing worth talking about, converted SRO's, bad neighborhoods, efficiency studios

$1100 solo can get you a decent studio in decent areas, a small studio in nice areas and an apartment-apartment 1bdr in boring parts of town (sunset, richmond, parkside etc)

$1600 w/ a roommate isn't much help tbh, a $1600 2bdr will have something wrong with it.

$2200 w/ a roommate is doable, either a tiny 2bdr somewhere cool to a nice flat somewhere in the boring parts of town.

Two roommates opens up even more possibilities.

As does trying to get into an existing tenancy as a subtenant:

Pro's:  Rent Control means, the longer the original lease has been in play the more undervalued the unit is.  You will save money doing this.

Con's:  Many sub-tenants at some point end up feeling like second class citizens, the law is very fuzzy and grey in this area & typically the longer a unit has been under rent control the less well kept it is.  This is a combination of the landlord not wanting to spend money on a unit he's losing money on and the tenants wanting the landlord to forget they are there.  The other con is if its a unit with 3+ bedrooms that is looking for a sublessor its typically a sort of revolving door tenancy situation.  Which can be really cool or really shitty.


Don't think of things too much in terms of neighborhoods, SF doesn't really conform to that.  But here's a quick breakdown of CL's geographic catagories:

SOMA/South Beach -- Very hit or miss, you can find cool stuff in SOMA these days its a neighborhood where tons of new highrises full of luxury condos are going up.  But anything cheap on the rental market here is bad news.  There are some very rough patches of SOMA still.  I'd say avoid.

USF/Panhandle -- A really cool neighborhood, decent prices, but you are up against stiff competition, if you want to steal a cool unit here you better have your shit together.  There are too many young people house hunting to be near campus for finding something here to not be a bitch.

Alamo Square/Nopa -- Another pretty awesome place to live, above the Haight with easy access to cool places but less of the annoying downsides.  This is a dog neighborhood, most buildings will be pet friendly, there are tons of great parks around.  Another competative place.

Bayview -- The only truly "ghetto" area in SF, avoid.

Bernal Hgts -- I always forget this is a neighborhood, its a nice suburb of the Mission but sort of removed from the rest of the city and near the freeways.  I've heard good things but never really worked/lived/managed property in this area so I'm not comfortable saying much.

Castro/Upper Market -- You aren't going to catch "teh gay" but if that stuff rankles you, stay away.  Very very sunny part of the city, close to market which means close to everything.  Very urban neighborhood in parts and then sections of the Castro are super quiet residential.

Cole Valley/Ashbury Hgts -- Beautiful quiet area on the outskirts of the Haight.  I'm not aware of there even being much of a rental market here, I shudder to think what the cost might be.  Cole Valley sucks balls imo, its a very NIMBY annoying tiny piece of town but thats a personal beef since Tasaharra Bakery went under and Cole Hardware got uncool.

Downtown / Civic / Van Ness -- see the TL, while there might be good things listed here, exhaust your other options first imo.  Buildings in this area will be real apartment buildings with 20+ units mostly.  There will not be deals, citiapartments owns a huge chunk of the RE and they are slumlords.  You will get what you pay for.

Excelsior / Outter Mission -- This barely qualifies as SF, I've lived in The City for 24 years and I've been to this area less then 5 times.  I have no info.

Financial District -- See: Downtown/Civic but nicer and more expensive mostly.  You will still be getting what you pay for.  These are professional buildings run by people who like money.  There is nice stuff, but it'll cost you.

Glen Park -- This is a strange part of town, its near to nice things and nasty things in equal measure.  I'm not aware of their being much of a rental market here but I would live in "most" of Glen Park.  Gets lots of sun like its neighbors Castro/outer Mission/Noe Valley

Haight Ashbury -- You don't want to live here.  Really. Its not worth the effort/money/bullshit, its a cool neighborhood and there are cool apartments but I doubt this is the place for you.

Ok that's about half of them, I'm going to take a break.

This was my point.  On $2200 a month I could live in a mansion in 95% of the country and still have $$$ leftover to fly to SanFran during my free time. 

To be fair the cut off for when you can get a decent 2bdr/flat is about $1900/mo in just rent.   :awesome_for_real:

Muni passes are $1.50/ride, $3/day, $15/week or $45/month. The monthly ones also grant unlimited BART rides, strictly between Embarcadero and Balboa Park stations, so you can count that as another rail line for the purposes of commuting.

As for cars, yeah, there's residential street parking in some areas, but it varies between pain in the ass to unbelievable pain in the ass. You can occasionally get an attached garage spot in the low-rise areas of town (southern/western, like the Mission or the Sunset or the Richmond), but you'll pay out the ass for it. $100/mo for an attached spot is Very Very Lucky, $150-200 is average, last I looked. You can also pay monthly for a garage or lot spot in your neighborhood, and those tend to run from $100-$150 in the low-rise areas, up to $300+ in the high-rise downtown areas.

If you only want the car for occasional weekend mobility and hauling, like I did when I brought my car here from LA, I'd strongly recommend looking into ZipCar, CityCarShare or one of the other half-dozen car-sharing-pool things in the city.

Can you elaborate on this a bit more?  I've only visited San Francisco once but really enjoyed wallowing in the nostalgia of the Haight.  Had some great conversations with random people on the street, smoked some good bud, listened to Jerry Garcia on never ending loop at some pubs.  It was a really cool atmosphere from an outsiders perspective and I've since thought that if I ever make a lot of money, I'd like to have a house there some day.

What is wrong with the neighborhood and why would it not be a good place to live?  Just curious.  I'm sure it's insanely expensive... how much do houses go for in that area?

 

I haven't looked at the prices around there, but I'm going to guess that it's FUCKING expensive and not worth it unless you have money coming out your ears.  It's also a bizarre mix of overly commercialized/touristy and ghetto, like Disneyland if it had random puddles of urine.  Oh, and driving and parking is about as bad as it gets, and there isn't any really great public transit access to compensate.

The lower Haight (like below Masonic) is more residential and there are some very nice houses there, but it's still pretty goddamn pricy and there are houses that are just as nice or nicer in the Alamo Square area.

The rental market in the Haight is fucking idiotic, like Samwise said, 5 minutes on CL should back me up.  There is rediculous competition for the very limited # of units and you also run a serious risk of ending up with retarded neighbors or in very bizzaro roommate situations considering the price premium.  I just didn't see it being worth the effort on Logik's part.

Hoax, Samwise, Yoru, thanks a bunch.  Your input has been terribly helpful, and I probably owe you all a brew at the next meetup day.   :drill:

Since we're talking about neighborhoods, it'd be cool to hear what general areas you all deign to inhabit.  As for myself, I'm t-minus one week to making the haul--packing has finally started.  In between bouts of that, I'm still scanning CL.  Hopefully, I'll have some specific questions when I manage to pin down a few places.

I live in the Sunset. If you want to get all technical, I'm right near the dividing line between the Inner Sunset and Outer Sunset. It's a quiet, safe neighborhood split about evenly between Asian families, UCSF grad students and young professionals.

I find my particular slice of the area excellent, as I'm within walking distance of a supermarket, several good restaurants, liquor/convenience stores, a few okay bars, the park, and a Muni train line. The downside is that getting downtown, or anywhere in the eastern half of SF really, is a half-hour endeavor, minimum.

I'm currently living in Buttfuck, Alameda (I moved to the East Bay for college and stayed afterward because of cheaper rents; I'm hoping to be able to move back to the city someday soon).  My parents are still where they've been living for the past twenty years or so, though, so I can talk about those neighborhoods.

My mom lives in a house sort of right between the Excelsior, Visitacion Valley, and the Bayview districts.  There's almost nothing walkable from her house except for John McLaren park, but she is less than five minutes from the freeway, and about twenty minutes from a BART station if taking public transit.  The area isn't exactly the best, but it's improved quite a bit since we moved in there when I was eight; gang activity is almost nonexistent now and she hasn't had her car radio stolen since I moved out as far as I know (she'd had it stolen at least twice while I lived with her).

My dad lives in an apartment in the Tenderloin, which has a reputation for being a really bad neighborhood but IMO is pretty cool; there are a lot of surprisingly good and cheap restaurants, and it's at the dead center of the city so you can get anywhere from there in a hurry (my dad's place is about two blocks from a BART station and a bunch of excellent bus/metro lines, walking distance from Union Square and Chinatown, a fifteen minute metro ride from Golden Gate Park, etc etc etc).

I'm currently hoping to get a house in the Ingleside area, which is relatively cheap, pretty low on crime, close to BART and metro lines and the freeway, and has a nice row of shops nearby (on Ocean Avenue).  My second choices would be the Sunset (I like it for the reasons Yoru mentioned, but since I'd be commuting to the East Bay for the foreseeable future the distance from freeways and BART is a killer) and the Bayview (lots of nice cheap houses there and good freeway access, but very little to do and no easy BART access).  If I had shittons of money my choices would be different, of course.