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Just to bring everyone up to speed, 2.2 is the much-delayed 'content' patch with no content other than bugfixes, balance changes...and integrated voice chat.

Or maybe not: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1602361123&sid=1

Anyone else read this as "Our bespoke voice chat (which required rewriting our entire sound engine from scratch) still isn't working properly but we're up to four months without a patch to we're going to put it live anyway and hope for the best" ?

Pretty much, yeah.  This entire process has probably been a series of "Oh, crap, so that's why most folks ignore it and leave it to 3rd party apps" for Blizzard.  I'm sure they'd like to hold off until it's actually viable but the Joke's on them, since they have a definite timeline to work against.

 "What timeline," you ask?  Well, they've got to get this patch, 2.3 which has been mentioned as a rogue/ pally tweaks (that I've seen), a patch for season 3 soon, a patch for Zul'Aman and Sunwell Plateau to get out before WOtLK is released.  At this rate, Sunwell would be out about 30 days before the x-pack if the x-pack were still a year away.   Sure, some of those could be combined but I doubt S3 is coming out in 2.3, and Sunwell/ Zul will be separate patches, so that's at least 3 right there.

Judging from the sudden (and recent) change from "2.2 will stay on test until we're happy with it" to "It goes live on a rolling start and we'll yank it if/when it breaks", I'd speculate that someone at Blizzard got told by a higher-up to push it live within a month or it doesn't go live at all.

I'd further speculate that this whole "integrated voice chat" is the pet project of someone, much like the first iterations of meeting stones.

2.2 live next week, 2.3 on test the week after (post-Blizzard killing voice chat for utter failure/rollbacks/server explosions), 2.3 live within 4-6 weeks. Rumour has it that 2.3 is pretty much complete & internally tested already, and just needs external testing.

That's the best speculation I've heard so far.  This voice chat thing is the first true and unmitigated bonehead idea that I've seen out of Blizzard.  A case can be made for the LFG system, the meeting stones, and all the other failures, but as even my old daddy could have told them, "if it ain't broke, why fix it?"

I guess the good news is that this patch, this one right here, has finally broken me of my WoW habit. I think. I log on to say hi to guildmates but I already told them I'm not coming back until ZA is released. Which is... oh, god, six months from now at this rate? At BEST? So by that time I have Conan, WAR and PotBS to choose from potentially... yeah.

For comparison, EQ2 in the amount of time that the TBC has released, what? Six patches and we're a month shy of an expansion pack? There's Blizzard's glacial patching process and then there's this monstrosity.

I really don't get the dislike for integrated voice chat. I can already see a use for it with a dedicated healer channel. To do it via TS would either require updating whisper keys on every group set-up change, and it can't be done in Vent at all (Phantoms are listen-only, available only to Admins, and take up a slot).

Picture Barrens chat over your headphones, spoken in stereotypical nasal teenaged geek vocal intonations.

In the three months or so that I played LOTRO, one and only one group ever used the integrated chat thing. I got more invitations to private vent/ts servers in PUGs. It's a nice idea, but it's a lot of work for something that seems on the whole to not get a lot of use.

I tested it on the Test Realms and when the server was up it worked pretty damn well. The quality was between TS and Ventrilo, which is pretty good. TeamSpeak fucking sucks, and I'd be happy to get rid of it. As much as I dislike the idea of having to listen to breathy-nerd #75133, everyone having voice will make pugging Heroics much easier (and give people who come to raids no excuse not to have it on to at least listen).

I don't think their solution is technically broken, I think they're not sure if they can provide the bandwidth for it.

Tune in to WCNR! : WoW Chuck Norris Radio! All Day! Everyday!

Honestly, I think they had to add it.

As it stands right now, to compete in end game PVE or PVP, you absolutly HAVE to have voice chat. It is a must. This is giving people who shell out for a vent (or TS, yuck) server a hugh advantage over those who dont. With the evolution of MMOGs, this was a necessary step. Now, I think that most medium and large guilds will still keep Ventrilo, but this does a lot to even the playing field. Hell, I am looking forward to being able to communicate in BGs.

I really do think that they should have pulled VoIP from 2.2, and went live with the bug fixes (3 pieces of loot per boss from TK and SSC. YES PLEASE!) and stuff a while ago, as I agree that they are on a major timetable.

2.3 is going to be Zul'Amen and probably Season 3.
2.4 is going to be more tweaks, and probably a Zul'Amen nerf.
2.5 will be the Sunwell.

I think my projection of November 2008 for WotLK is looking better and better. Oh yeah, Sunwell is going to be the next Naxxramas. Only like 5% of players will ever kill more than 1 boss, and then it will be lamented as being an awesome instance that most people didnt see. It will then be brought back in the 4th expansion World of Warcraft: The Screams of the Dying God Champion, and retuned for level 110 characters.

I fully expect Hunters to be fixed in patch 3.4.

T hey really didn't have to add it. Voice chat isn't suddenly going to make the unwashed masses suddenly turn to it in droves nor will it make Azzrapor able to tank Deadmines. The people who WOULD benefit from it are already using something and won't switch. This is Meeting Stones part two.

And November 2008 is looking mighty on target which, frankly, isn't acceptable for the amount of money they pull in. That'd definitely put the nail in the coffin of a lot of people's WoW careers, I think.

I don't get the hate for TS, mostly because we use a dedicated server for it. Vent's slightly better in quality, but the interface is just this side of hideous.

I will say that this "voice chat" BS that Blizzard is desperately trying to get right is pushing all my wrong buttons. I don't give two damns about voice chat in the program. I DO give a crap about ZA coming out, and content delay in favor of bells and whistles is pissing me off.

You'll have a long wait. Current implementation does not work cross-server.

That is my take on this as well. Integrated Voice, don't really care either way. The fact said VoiP is delaying all the other stuff I want/need (wtb: 10 min blessings already!) is super annoying. Pushing back GuildBanks for voice? ugh.

Wait, there's a patch coming up? Why hadn't I heard of it?

Seriously... I'm so tired of the Blizzard patching process. My ponytail sticks out of the back of my headgear if I turn it on, just like anybody with hair and a S2 arena head. This has been broken since the beginning of season 2. This has been a known issue within Blizzard since the beginning of season 2. Now if they were trying to sort out a fix, waiting this long is fine, I understand that sometimes you just can't fix something as quick as you like. If they had other bugs they were fixing or features they were rolling out that's fine, I can see this as a low priority sure. But no, they haven't patched SHIT between now and the start of the season. They've had it fixed on the test server for forever but we don't get a fix because they are so fucking slow to roll it out. Oh and arena is going to change quite a bit (especially 2v2) once 2.2 hits because of the dot nerf and no stacking of shadow res and the nerfing of CC. But... we've known this forever. I sold my shadow res I had been collecting once it was announced MONTHS AGO that this was going ahead. We've lost to teams just barely because CC was just a bit too long, or dots were just a bit too strong. It's so annoying losing to things you know are getting patched out next patch... and knowing this for months.

/end rant

Any idea when the XP revamp I've been hearing about is going to hit?  That's pretty much what I'm holding out for...  I have a half dozen characters in Gadgetzan right now, and haven't been able to muster the excitement to grind them up to 58, since I've been hearing that they're going to boost quest XP and lower XP requirements aaaaaaany day now....

It's not "any day now."  Yay internet rumors.  It's the same kind of misunderstanding that was around when they first announced BC and 'omg they said june!!' suddenly became the gospel truth rather than a complete misunderstanding.

They said they're looking at it for around WOTLK when it was first announced.  So expect 9 months or so before it happens.

Whats this about "stacking shadow resist"?  I know about different resists not stacking from various buffs (auras, totems, and the like) but other then priest buff and SR gear, where do you "stack" shadow resist in such a way that they are nerfing it for arenas?

Or are you talking about the people in full BT crafted shadowresist gear Laughing at the flavour of the month warlock / SPriest teams?

This.

Yes. Teams can now stack shadow resisitance because they can switch gear when they see their opponents. The nerf is that you can't switch gear during arena so yoou either go without shadow res, stack shadow res and get screwed by every non-shadow team, or mix in just a little.

It's almost like they had a meeting to figure out what improvements they could copy from LoTR and the only one anyone thought was a real improvement was voice chat. I'd rather they'd rewritten the patcher if they have that kind of bandwidth to spare.

Even in LoTR every guild I raided (or even did 5 mans with) used vent. I have a vent client on another old machine on my desk and this just means I have to add a mic to my main machine, or tell ppl who want to use the built in voice chat my mic is broke like I did in LoTR.

Ahh, so rather then being a nerf to shadow resistance stacking, it is more like a nerf to gear switching.

Actually it is supposed to hit well before WLK and that's from Blue. Best guess is 2.3.

I suspect that 2.3 will be turned around very quickly and contain little other than the troll instance...if only because a lot of guilds are beginning to hit the wall* which seperates Karaz/heroics/Magtheridon and the catass instances of Tempest Keep, Black Temple et al.

2.4 will follow later with old world revamp, maybe the Sunwell instances and possibly the eventual detuning of the upper tier TBC raids so that the 95%+ of the raiding playerbase actually gets to see them.


*WoWJitsu is very interesting reading and I hope that Blizzard has their own version of it. The way that most (non-twink) guilds have at least attempted one Karazhan run, but something stupid like 0.01% of guilds have 'killed' Illidan - and the way that the content completion curve turns into a cliff-face somewhere around Tempest Keep - goes to show that Blizzard really needs to take a look at the tuning of the later TBC content. I mean, sure - Illidan is killable but it's probably in much the same was as original-C'thun was killable: If you have a group of just over two dozen people in the absolute best gear, who all know exactly what to do, when to do it, and never make a mistake...you'll probably win. But that's no way to run a MMOG (The Vision aside).

Oh I don't think the turn around will be quick at all. Their patching process is monstrously fucked up  and their QA is paid an absolute pittance; the two together make for fun times as shit like orcs having teensy shoulderpads not only goes through when it's entirely obvious to anyone LOGGING ON TO THE GAME but that simple problem sits there for four months with no fix.

My guild's one of those hitting that brick wall of content and I'm not holding out hope for a quick ZA patch at all. 2.3 also had, what? The guild banks, possible old world revamp, ret and enhancement changes and some other crap I've forgotten because I quit paying attention a month and a half ago when I realized I wasn't going to see it for six months. Two months on 2.3, minimum.

Zul'Aman is (apparently) complete and finished internal testing. Arena season 3 likewise. Guild banks are the only thing which I could see seriously holding up 2.3 (and given how long voice chat has taken, even this could be internally complete by now and would just need beta-testing). If what I heard is true, then 2.3 will be up on Test as soon as Blizzard finishes firefighting the 2.2 patch trainwreck, and go live fairly soon afterwards (within a month), barring catastrophes.

Now whether 2.3 will have everything they originally promised for it is an entirely different matter. :)

That would be good but I'll believe it when I see it. The waits for 2.1 and 2.2 have pretty much destroyed my faith in Blizzard's patching and content release processes.

They have also stated that 2.3 is being worked on right now also. Its not like every one is still working on 2.2. I think its just the VoIP guys finishing off 2.2. I agree that I think we will see a very quick turn around on 2.3.

That pisses me off even more. If 2.3 is practically done, just lump the damn thing in with 2.2 and scrap the stupid VoIP for now. Nobody is going to whine hard about this being delayed. Was this an actual feature that the community went, OMG YES! I certainly didn't.

Orc shoulders :(

When I hear about the VoIP thing, all I think about is UO's IM program that they added that caused so many more problems than it solved.  No one ever used it to my knowledge...

I could see them having one, maybe two programmers on the voice chat, so everyone else is probably on to other stuff even now.

Any idea when they're pushing 2.2 through? And when are the afk-valley arena changes due?

Educated guess: 2.2 is off Test (patch 2.2.2 - the Oktoberfest-inspired seasonal event - is on there now) so 2.2 goes live this week.

Probably.

Actually WoWJutsu says 0.61% of guilds have killed Illidan. Also funnily enough he's easier to learn than Kael'thas.

They kinda had to release it tomorrow, as this next weekend is the AV holiday and they want to make sure they can run the anti afk feature through it's buggy paces on the highest volume weekend they can have :p

You mean 0.61% of RAIDING guilds. There are plenty of guilds on my server that don't raid at all, just do 5mans / pvp / heroics. Maybe they have a few pieces from pug kara/gruul runs, but I doubt that puts them on the wowjutsu map... or does it?

Edit: My guild isn't on wowjutsu (even though we cleared kara in cooperation with the #12 guild on the server).. we have about 20 lv70s and lots of sub-70s. Half of those 70s are alts, but eh.


-- Z.

Actually...it does. WoWjutsu works by brute force - "if guildmember_35 has loot_from_mob_56456456, then flag guild as killing mob_56456456" is pretty much it.

Anyway, now that the non-content 'content' patch is going live we can all start looking forward to 2.2.2 and getting e-drunk for victory!

Well, yes and no.


So if, for example, Nihilum were to disband and reform(for some bizzare reason) under a different name - even with the exact same people- they'd drop to a 0 rank and then be forced to claw their way up in the rankings.  They'd never achieve the #1 spot again (in BC) because the other top-ranked guilds would be flagged as having killed those bosses first and more often.

An imperfect system, but still better than just "If your guild has X you have to have killed y"

As to why your guild isn't on the list, Zetor;


Maybe you don't have 20 points yet?  I duuno.. if you want to add yourselves, the link is http://www.wowjutsu.com/addguild.php

Yet more proof that only the tiniest of fractions actually see the end of the 25-man content and yet they plan to have yet another one soon.

I thought it was strange the other day  when one of our guild leaders finally was able to purchase elixirs from that guy in the center of Shattrah only to find out they were basically for 25-man raids.  His response?  "Meh, guess I won't be using this "feature.""

More emphasis on the 10-man or less instances please.

I dunno, I think a flask is perfectly fine for people wanting to do heroics.

 BT aside though, if you've been to underbog or botanica you've done serpentshrine and tempest keep.  Same mobs, more hitpoints.  Sure it's content a lot of people won't see but rally, I wouldn't say it's terribly interesting content, just time consuming which is I guess the point.

The flasks can only be purchased by using a trash drop token from BT trash, and they can only be used in the 25 man dungeons.

I, for one, am looking forward to the voice chat for a couple reasons.  Arena teams - no, I don't have a vent server and I didn't feel the need to get one - only recently have I started to get serious about arenas, and what the hey, we've got voicechat patch coming up.  Semi-pug battlegrounds - even if it doesn't work cross-server yet, it means it's a lot easier to recruit a bunch of people from my server and queue as a group.  NAMES ON SCREEN WHEN PEOPLE TALK.  That one is kinda big for me, cause with people I don't hear often, I have no clue who's talking.  I just try to pick out the voice of the battlefield commander and the rest I just kinda sorta guess at.  I tested it out on the PTR and the quality was acceptable for me.  Me and a friend did a few arena matches using it, we could understand each other.  I don't need any more sound quality than that.  Direct integration into the game seems like a plus - it takes less memory and CPU time if it's part of WoW than a separate process, I would presume.  And of course the names thing.  Also channels.

The downside of course is that I hate voicechat while raiding, and now even more imbeciles that can't write a decent string of instructions and instead give half-understandable speeches with annoyingly repetitive orders will want me listening to them.  Ugh, no thanks, I'd rather go afk, grab my raid snacks, use the bathroom, and take care of anything else I need to handle for the next few hours while the raid leader gives out instructions, then come back, sit down, and read them, where they'll be vastly clearer and considerably less repetitive than spoken instructions.

I have no idea why they've spent so much time on the voice chat 2+ years post release. People who "must" use it already are, and those who don't really want to, probably still won't. The number of people who were oblivious or didn't want to use vent/teamspeak are probably fairly small, or, not worth hearing to be fairly honest.

2.1 came out on May 22nd. 2.2 came out today.

Why can't they do bug fixes/tweaks to exisiting content WITHOUT waiting 4 months between?

Put those damn heroic badges in Karazhan already. Where's the raiding buff for Enh shaman? Things going to be tweaked so guilds that have been working on SSC and TK for the last 3 months can actually kill Vashj and Kael (it's happened to every guild on my server, 2/3 top alliance have killed Vashj once or twice, but are now stalled on a 3rd kill)?

Your wish is granted if current knowledge of WotLK is correct. Supposedly there are going to be FOUR new 10-man instances in the next expansion due to the incredible success of Kara. I imagine the hardcore raiders will once again get all of the best story shit (I think you get to finish off the dying patriarch of the black dragonflight, kill the matriarch of the blue dragonflight, and of course Arthas...all of which will likely be for TEH HARDCOERZ only), but I can kinda deal with that.

Also, can someone confirm for me that the Sunwell (25-man) also comes with a new 5-man instance?

Weird, I wonder what kind of gear they're gonna put in the 5-man. You already have basically 4 different sets of level 70 blue gear you can get for each class across all heroics/70 normal 5-mans. Your dungeon set, your class agnostic set (mana-etched, Doomplate, etc), and recolors of Tier 1 and 2 for each spec (I.E. Green Wrath set for tanks, Red Might set for DPS, purple Judgement for healadins, red Lawbringer for Ret pallies).

Maybe some oddball off-spec gear or more gear for slots that have very few options? Tank boots for example. The only level 70 blue pair of tank boots is a heroic drop...before that the best tank boots are a blue quest reward from Mana Tombs (a Level 64ish dungeon).

Ohhh, I misread. Yes those flasks are a pain but a cheap alternative for those who raid constantly but to clarify the marks you need to buy them drop off all trash in SCC and tempest keep.  They also drop quite often, it's a reverse time sink in a way and quite nice.

If I was still in a guild that didn't have 50-60 people online at peak, I'd be using this feature a lot. Using voice is really great for coordinating with pubbies in 5-man heroics, and it's always nice when you don't have to give out your guild's vent/ts info or know someone who knows a server you all can use.

Ok, I can give you that. I suppose it's a matter of priorities, and I would have put the integrated voice as very low. Voice is nice, but get the content fixes in sooner rather than later.