f13.net

Because not saying something is the new saying something. (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3161656)

A new SOE project is going to be announced Friday-ish and launch in August.

Once I know the magnitude of the damage, I'll edit the subject line to make it more relevant.

EDIT: To update the title to something more relevant.

I think it's the post beta version of EQ2  :-D

WTG 1up.

Listing Pirates and G&H as their games.

And this is why the general public is mostly retarded. Because the people writing the news are mostly retarded.

By the way, my guess, something from the SOE Card Game Studio.

If I'm wrong, I want Diablo Online.

Prediction/guess: a small sci-fi or space MMO thingy with Second Life style UGC. And ice cream.

I'm guessing it's a mini-MMO, an SOE version of Dungeon Runners or Toon Town. If they are sensible.

If they are insane, it's the DC MMO.

Or the post-alpha version of Vanguard?

I'm thinking free to play browser-based EQ1 in a browser. Started two years ago pre-WoW pre-NGE backlash post-it's-all-about-Korea would be about right.

This would be... depressing.

Hm.  I'm wondering if you forgot s o m e t h i n g?  Hoping so, at least.

Every article says "brand new game"...Would a browser based EQ1 be considered a brand new game?

Every article says brand new game because that's what the PR said. The more important part is where it said that it hadn't been seen before. Which is to say, it's most likely not EQWeb.

remember how they moved some of the vangaurd guys over to a "Sekret" project? Maybe this is it? I doubt those guys would want to be involved in a toon town type thing.

Why not EQ3? It's plausable.

Diablo online = Dungeon runners.

Not exactly. It still needs a hell of a lot of fleshing out.

No and No.

Yeah, but it is about as diablo as you can get right now, needs more stuff thoe, i agree. But i have been enjoying it. Even got my girl to play with me... she usealy sticks to console games.

This part from the article confuses me...

"Also available will be a sneak peek at the new Everquest 1 and 2, for those of you still playing EQ."

WTF? New everquest? I am guess its just a bad choice of words, and they are speaking about expansions.

Everquest was around for about 5 years before EQ2 came out. EQ2's been out for what? 3 years? Announcing it now, 2 years of development would = 5 years. Seems logical to me. I don't even think it would be that bad of an Idea considering how much better EQ2 has gotten lately. I don't think it's likely... but it's certainly possible

Um.

Hm.

Rumor has always been floating about that they were going to publish Stargate Worlds.  Possible that's the big announcement?

Stargate Worlds will not be out in August. It won't be out in August... 2008 either. Maybe not even 2009.

Maybe they're adding collision detection to SWG?

oh wait... Launch in augest? No way. What ever it is, it has to be crap. Probobly a card game.

Some things have certainly come true. Every time I read 'SWG' I twitch.

If it had collision detection, it'd have a whole lot more....

oh lol another thread about swg and twitch

oh man

it never gets old

stop being a fucking broken record, people

My new SWG technique is unstoppable.


Collision Detection.


That is all.

Edit:  :heart:

You're relatively new so I'll be nice, but when I say things like "stop being a broken record," I mean it.

My guild leader won one of the four "player of the year" awards so he is being flown out to Vegas tomorrow on SOE's dime. So we will all get the info as soon as it's released at the fan fair. I think he also gets a few beta invites for what ever it is as well. Interesting to note that of the four people selected as player of the year 2 were from SWG, only one from EQII and one from Planetside.

So how did he go about winning the 'Player of the Year' award?

I have some theories.

He was one of the 2 SWG subscribers?

Did somebody say twitch!?

IT'S A TRAP!

It's got to be Smed's latest pet project, post-Sovereign. You know, the super lite, casual gaming friendly, collect em all cutesy big-eyed cartoon furry womanimal, cheap embedded flash, with dancing and dating minigames, no barrier to entry, learning from korea, soccer mom's delight, free to download, extradextra asian friendly, and (most importantly) station exchange enabled real money trading juggernaut that he's been talking up for the past year or so. For windows and PS3!

When the news comes out, I expect about 1000 "meh" replies to this thread. Don't let me down, dudes!

Well he was nominated by community members and has contributed the following.



http://www.swghuntersguild.com/JunkYard/

http://www.swghuntersguild.com/BeastMastery.gif

http://www.swghuntersguild.com/

I have no idea what that is, got a headache. But "good job" to your buddy!

So the 4 players who are left in SWG can count on this honor each year? SWEEEET!

That is the flowchart of the "simple" beastmastery system to make a pet.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So the 4 players who are left in SWG can count on this honor each year? SWEEEET!

Actually it was across all SOE games, 2 of the 4 came from SWG, the other from Planetside and one from EQII.

The only flowchart anyone ever needs is the panflute one, which I am too lazy to find.

I am betting that Sony shows off The Agency (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=10183.0) (the PS3/PC MMO?), and all of the magazine coverage I saw of this had release dates that I swear were overly ambitious.

BTW SWG has more than 4 people playing, and the Gold Farmers alone have at least 600 active SWG accounts. I even reactivate my SWG acct every once in a while when I want to pay $14 a month to beta a game (but discussion of swg should remain in the 65 page thread someplace).

OMG here's a leaked gameplay video of teh new game!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N2FTZlMq44)

And it's teh real thing not a Rick Astley video big lulz

That was amusing the first few times but it's not amusing anymore.

Actually never watched that all the way through before, thanks!

Don't even have to hit play.

Tunak Tunak is awesome.

A magic the gathering game that can be played by both EQ and EQII players, that reward the players with ingame items. When they got to the part of demo that had a dev try to claim a ingame reward they could not get it to function. Smed said they did it without flaw "500" times the day before.

how original (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft_Trading_Card_Game)

Why would you link to WoW TCG? Is that a joke post? I don't get it.

It's "A magic the gathering game that can be played by both EQ and EQII players, that reward the players with ingame items."

And I recalled "A magic the gathering game that can be played by WoW players, that rewards the players with ingame items."

Where am I going wrong?

Gutboy left out the detail that this is an online game.

Edit: more info here (warning Stratics page!):

http://eq2.stratics.com/?nocookies=1#21776

I  :heart: it

Yes it is online while you are in EQ and EQII they said it was a game to be played during the downtime (waiting for a group and the like). You launch it from inside EQ and EQII as a mini-game.

Sony certainly has a hard on for digital TCG's now don't they? Stargate, Pirates and now this? Well, makes sense considering they don't even have to pay the costs of producing the painted cardboard. The profit margins on these things must be sickening.

Son of a whore, I just had an article that had the pricing scheme in it and I lost it. I'll link it as soon as I can find it again. In a nutshell 3 bucks a booster 10 bucks a starter. 375 card initial set.

Back when I was playing EQ we stared at our spellbooks and we liked it!

Edit: plural

Guys. I've wanted a card game mixed with my MMOG for a long time. This could be interesting. You should be able to win cards in game though. Full cycle there.

Diplomacy didn't do it for you? :)

WoW has a few mods, including multiplayer Poker. Obviously not everyone's gonna find it, but this is what happens when a) the UI is opened up to the public; and, b) you've got a good cross-section of players playing it.


They're maximizing their purchase of Worlds Apart a year ago, who specializes in this type of thing (online TCGs). And it makes perfect sense. The only thing with a higher margin than virtual trading cards is the bitmaps swords you can buy in Maplestory.

Ah here we go, the full press release...

http://www.finanznachrichten.de/nachrichten-2007-08/artikel-8751256.asp

Sony Online Entertainment Introduces Legends of Norrath(TM)

LAS VEGAS, Aug. 3 /PRNewswire/ -- Fans of EverQuest(R) and EverQuest(R) II, as well as strategy game enthusiasts received a special surprise from Sony (Nachrichten) Online Entertainment (SOE) president John Smedley during his Fan Faire Community Address today when he revealed plans for Legends of Norrath(TM), the first online trading card game based on SOE's popular MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game) franchises.

Legends of Norrath is the first online card game playable within the EverQuest(EQ) and EverQuest II(EQII) live MMO games. Launching from an in-game menu, or using a free SOE Station ID, players can challenge opponents on their game server, or across other EQ and EQII servers in both casual games and high-level tournaments.

"With Legends of Norrath, we're expanding and evolving the EverQuest and EverQuest II experience for both our loyal fans as well as strategy gamers," says Smedley. "The cards and interface have been designed by some extremely talented people in our Denver studio, and perfectly capture the sense and feel that have made EQ and EQII so popular."

Developed at SOE's Denver, CO studio, Oathbound is the first release in the Legends of Norrath storyline. Oathbound features more than 375 digital cards and will be available in both 55-card digital starter decks and 15-card digital booster packs. In this first of three card sets, players become part of a clandestine, secret war between the forces of Order and Chaos. Once jailed on the Plane of Justice, a mysterious tribunal offers them a chance for freedom and redemption by helping fight against the forces of Chaos. In swearing allegiance to the side of Order, players become Oathbound, and fight this shadow war against the forces of Chaos to keep them from plunging Norrath into a bloody and eternal war.

In addition to player vs. player combat, Legends of Norrath is the complete online card gaming experience, featuring a sophisticated, re-playable AI system for single player campaigns, easy to use management tools and numerous Casual and Tournament game lobbies. Victory can be achieved by completing quests or reducing your opponent's health, enabling players to employ their own unique strategies for victory. The game also features a robust loot system; more than 30 loot items each for EQ and EQII will be available, including player mounts, potions, clothing and spells.

On August 28, 2007, EverQuest and EverQuest II players will receive a complimentary random Oathbound digital starter deck and given access to the game prior to its general release scheduled for September 4, 2007. The digital starter decks (55 cards) will be available for $9.99 (plus any applicable taxes), with digital booster packs (15 cards) selling for $2.99 (plus any applicable taxes). For more information on Legends of Norrath, visit the website at http://www.legendsofnorrath.com/.

I guess I'm going to have to learn about MTG and card trading games, like I had to learn about mobile phones in 2000.

I mean, I'd had email since 1993 and I had a phone. Why did I need a cell phone?

I can play MMOGs and advance/loot up. Why do I need a MTG? The WoW one passed me by - all it produced was gimps on slow rideable turtles.

Sounds like crap.  They could have a lot more interaction between the card game and the MMO than ingame rewards.   I fully support the idea of a TCG in an MMO but this just sounds like they are launching a new online card game and that it will be launchable from EQ1/2.  If I want to pay real money for cards I'll definitely play MTGO before something like that.

Collectible card games can go get fucked in general.  If they slap one into an MMO I'm playing, it had better be fluff and nothing more, because I didn't sign up for that shit.

The bottom line is that SOE wants to add in a micro-transaction to as many games as possible. I am sure the bottom line looks way better if even some small percentage of people pay the $2.99 for a booster pack.

Does it cost real money for cards or in game gold/platinum?

If it's extra dough, then it sounds stupid… …though there's probably an endless stream of jackasses queued up to voluntarily bend over and be raped…

(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3878/facepalmfv7.jpg)

I really think I should catch up on some anime. I can only pick out one picture and name the series. Yikes.

Smeadly, and SOE, are total, complete, fucking morons. What little trust they had started to gain back from me has been lost.

One thing I find interesting here is the idea that they can run a pve trading card game.

I mean, surely the card game becomes trivially simple and sucks, or the AI is completely impratical to write.



MtG is nothing remotely like a dikumud. And doesn't have advancement or looting up.

Unless you meant why do I need a trading card game *inside* a MMOG, when the MMOG itself is based on diku principles, because then I agree with you entirely.

Price point aside, trading card battle mechanics as the basis for an entirely new MMOG is something I could get behind. You people are always after non-grind turn-based pvp, this is it.

Eldaec, I don't know why you doubt their ability to run a PvE card game (or the a balanced PvP one, I suppose, being the foil for that). See, what they did was, they bought the most successful purely online CCG company. And now they're having them do their bidding. In fact, I'd argue, SOE is the only one capable of running this sort of card game correctly.

Has anyone played the stargate tcg? Is it any good?

We kinda all did.  Hell, we wanted Sabacc and Pazzak in SWG.

Smed said that the cards would also drop as loot.  So make sure you log in on launch day before they fix the loot tables.

So basically this is the first step to giving in-game loot a dollar value? 

I really like the idea of mini-games inside a game but this whole thing reeks to me of a money grab and nothing more.

I'm pretty sure they've been doing that for a while on their 'special' servers.

As a current EQ2 subscriber, um.  Meh?  Apparently I will get a free starter deck if I'm still subscribed when it launches.  Doesn't look like it will impact me and the way I play EQ2 in anyway.

Also playing currently. I will probally try it as cards are to drop as loot and a few cool things can be won, but meh. Maybe I will hang with my healers more playing cards while LFG but I do not see it as a large thing.

Actually, the cards are supposed to be nodrop, at least in regards to in-game cash. Whether they can be traded for other cards/anted up/whatever will be interesting to watch for.

Maybe only the mob dropped cards are nodrop?  The whole trading thing is kind of essential to a game with paid for boosters.  I also can't fathom how they intend to for the thing to be popular if people can't trade ingame items/gold for peoples paid-for cards.

So basically either the card game is going to have pretty limited interaction with the mmo or they are going to end up enabling RMT for every player in EQ/EQ2.

RMT I get jboots!! Finely.

It's just Smeadly lubing us up for the real deal later down the road.

They tried to slip in the exchange servers a few years ago, I'm sure Smeadly thought it was going to be huge, but it nearly destroyed the game. Judging from what was going on in the forums at that time they had to have lost 10% or more of their subscribers. The exchange servers have basically been a total failure since then and have had no effect on gold sales on normal servers. It was purely a money grab by SOE and an attempt to get the foot in the door of pure virtual sales strait from SOE. Want your epic weapon? $100!

I never did understand SOE. Rather than have 500k subs at $14 each, they would rather inflate prices, nickel and dime their customers and drive them away until they have 200k subs paying $30 each. What gives?

Sounds like the movie box office model.

This is fucking awesome. Of course, I'd rather it was a free part of the game, but business is business.

I've decried the lack of good minigames in mmo since playing chess in UO with the regular group of pals.

RMT is another thread.

Why do you guys hate fun?

Well I'm sure it wasn't your intent but 200k people paying $30 each would provide a great deal more profit than 500k people paying $14 each even though the net cash intake would be less.   For EQ1 with it's many expansions though having more subscribers is definitely better unless the customers aren't even buying the expansions.


I only brought up RMT because I can't fathom how this will work unless they let players start selling gold via trading for cards.  It won't be fun at all if you have to pay for cards.   This isn't MTG we're talking about where the cards retain value and thus you aren't just throwing cash away to buy them.

I hate fun that takes me back to her room but then asks for extra money before things get good.

EDIT: Unless that was the prior arrangement, of course.

Meh, dropping $20 for the starter pack and a few extra cards is ok by me. I'll probably play mostly against the AI if it doesn't suck too bad. The problem with MtG to me has always been people with too much money dumping it on good cards, uneven playing field and whatnot makes for bad pvp.

Still, sounds like a fun addition to the game.

That's true... and part of my point. So what if it's more profitable in the short term? It's like having high priced stock... sure it's great that its worth so much, but if you lose 1 customer you're losing 2x as much. Also, when you come out with Everquest3 or whatever your next product is, you're going to have less of an audience to try it out.

It is a shame the launch of this will immediately coincide with charging people for it. I'd have rather see them try this out to see if there was enough compulsion to pay extra for it. First try it out so people could get good stuff through it, then if there's interest, begin charging people while buffing what they can get. Not really a pump/fake if you let them know that is what you were thinking ahead of time. And based purely on what I've read, this is more appropriate for a DIKU than VG's Diplomacy.

I think it's two reasons:

• They love the Korean/Far East microtrans model. Those games get way many more millions of accounts than any subscription-based DIKU has, even the Lineages. This doesn't translate into actual people of course. However, the microtrans model has proven to get more money from each person than a sub-based game. So, even if Maplestory's 60mil registered accounts only translate into 7mil actual people (total guess), they could be making more money per month than Blizzard collects from their monthly fee in the West and their royalty share from The9 in China.
  
• SOE realized they're not going to grow on the back of subscription-based games along anymore. They got clocked by Blizzard/VUG across the board. EQ brand was not as strong as Warcraft. SOE is not as beloved as Blizzard. SOE's superior infrastructure does not account for a perceived lack of game play development talent. So SOE is leveraging what they do do well: business and service providing. Don't think this card game thing is going to stop with the EQs. If it goes, expect it in every other title they've got enough players in to give it a go (SWG, MxO, TT, PotBS eventually, probably not PS).
  
  

Just my opinion of course.

It's not more profitable in the short term.  It's more profitable in the short term and the long term.  I thought this was a made up example though?  SoE has not raised their price for montly subs to $30 for basic service last I checked?  The station pass is more but that's a different ballgame.

As for my point on expansions it's only true for a large discrepancy like 500k vs 200k.  If it was something more like 500k vs 350k they could probably raise the expansion pack cost by $10 and get away with it.


I don't see any problem dropping some cash either but it sounds like you haven't really played a TCG if you think you can drop just $30 bucks and have some fun.  At least not when your bothered by that aspect of MTG.   Having this one be an online TCG is only going to exacerbate the problem.   You won't be playing with your friends around the corner.  You'll be playing in some sort of ranked atmosphere where you will be made to clearly feel the inferiority of your deck if you only spend $30 bucks on it.

I happen to enjoy MTG and don't mind the costs personally but that's because those cards have value.  That's why I can't fathom what SOE is thinking.  An online TCG will probably not work without the online cards retaining value.  MTGO achieves this by allowing you to trade in whole sets of online cards for real cards.  Even if SOE tries the same thing though those cards are probably not going to be worth much as real cards.  Thus the audience will probably be restricted to people who really don't mind throwing cash away.

They nickel and dime you all the way to that $30. Between their mini-expansions, this card game, the exchange servers. I feel like they look at me like I'm some money tree that they keep dumping fertalizer on. To much fertalizer kills a tree ya know.

That price point is just way too high unless they are giving away a ton of cards as prizes. 

Well if you are talking about avg cost per month including expansion content then yea it's probably closer to $30.   You sound like it bugs you but if you want to argue that the cost of playing has significantly harmed the player base of SoE games then I can't agree.

The station exchange servers are different of course but I don't see how that has anything to do with how much money you pay to play the game?  It was a foolish idiotic attempt to cash in on the RMT market that would of caused all sorts of problems but it's another topic entirely.

I don't see how you feel like the card game comes into it either.  It sounds pretty optional.  Yes there are some item rewards for playing it but I kind of doubt they'll invalidate raid gear with rewards from a card game.

I applaud this move except for one thing. The price.

$10 for a virtual starter pack is shit. I've hated it with MTG Online, and I've hated it with every other fucking online CCG. I'm not paying full retail price for fucking virtual cards that retain no value.

No it doesn't. You keep saying that but you are wrong every time.

Edit: removed extraneous list tag

He may have misspoken, but Smed clearly said (in part 6 of the youtube footage iirc) that they were giving EQ & EQ2 players starter packs and that mobs would drop booster packs. The dev speaking for the card team said mobs would drop packs/cards/mumble. Audio sucked on that footage.

I wish Grimwell would post here so I could nag him for a beta invite :P

I switched over to wow from EQ2 in july 2005(has it been that long?) I didn't know the blizzard brand andI was even hesitant to play wow but im a MMO junkie.  The reason I left was when I heard EQ saying "new dungeon once a month $5!  New expansion twice a years $45!" I honestly can't remember if those price points are correct but it was then I knew I had to jump ship cause I play for fun, not to be nickle and dimed for something I already pay a monthly fee for. 

You can argue the monthly fee doesn't cover 'new' content but to me that's exactly what it covers from a purely visceral standpoint and in my opinion only.  I pay for the box, the box gives me all the stuff on the disc.  That monthly Fee I pay is the expectation of smooth servers and new content.  If you think adding new stuff should cost more, change the monthly fee and let me decide.

SOE proves again that they are a bunch of money-grubbing shitheads. 

When I first heard about this in-game card game, I thought "ho, hum.  Whatever."  Now, after learning they're going to charge cash for the cards, I just shake my head in disbelief.  I didn't mind paying a little extra once in a while for new content like expansion packs or even the adventure packs EQ2 had.  But paying extra for a mini-game?  Smed can blow me.

I'm just glad their grab for cash with Station Exchange didn't catch on with other MMO companies.  Hopefully this new stupid idea won't either.

Apparently cards won't be tradeable.

At least, not once you open the booster packs. Apparently, you CAN loot boosters from mobs, and trade those packs, but once you open them, you can't trade the cards that give you in-game items with other players.

Some of that is found here (http://www.mmognation.com/2007/08/03/john-smedley-interview-on-legends-of-norrath/), in Zonk's interview with Smed.


During the ensuing discussion over at Broken Toys, Grimwell clarified some parts of that.

They're running a business, not a hippy commune. They want to find new ways of monetizing their products, and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. If I played EQ2, I would be concerned about this stuff polluting the game by leveraging real money against in-game benefits. But I don't, so I'll just watch it with great interest.

There's nothing necessarily wrong with being a money-grubbing shithead either.  Personally, I choose not to give my money to money-grubbing shitheads.  SOE is not trying to sell their customers something of value, they're just trying to squeeze more money out of them.

For what it's worth, I also don't give my money to hippy communes.

Ok. So you don't like card games.

Anything else of value that you'd like to contribute?

* screw it. stabby one-liners are boring and fascist and haven't yet been worth responding to *

You guys are funny. Sky, email me.

The game is pretty simple. It's a CCG and it follows the standard CCG model of starters and boosters. We aren't innovating there, or doing anything with costs that should surprise anyone at all. I'm still playing M:tG and am not surprised that 10th edition costs the same as 9th, etc.

People who don't want to participate can throw their boosters up for trade if they nab them as loot - and they can get something they like. I think that's pretty darn cool. People who do want to play, but aren't the sort to buy lots of boosters to get all the cards NOW NOW NOW can work up boosters while they play, tarde for them from people who don't want them, and build a good deck.

The team in Denver does a great job with these games - the Pirates game rocks. When we first tested Legends of Norrath internally, there was a LOT of feedback about the game and how to improve it - to the point that the Denver studio could have gotten all angry that we weren't being nice. You know what they did? They took the feedback and tweaked the game to the better for the design.

Will this ruin either EverQuest game? Nope. Good times, easy times. Just another option.

Oh, and I'm a shill and profit = good because I like paychecks.

...and since LoN is still in beta, anything I said that gets quoted after it's changed is just funny.

"Upon searching the body, you discover that the slain orc carried 12 silver pieces, a booster card pack for Everquest: The Gathering, and a coupon for $3 off /pizza."

Man, those EQ games are immersive.

I don't think anyone gives a crap about the card game. I personally think it sounds silly and doubt many will play it. What people are worried about are the PRIZES
If you can buy cards
and the cards help you win games
and winning games gets you prizes
and those prizes are Equipment
You are therefor Buying Equipment

Tell us what the prizes are. Then we can either get livid (if it is equipment) or forget all about this card game (if it's just more cards, or fluff appartment crap)

In the video they presented at FanFaire it did show a toon getting a cloak and more gear from the card game. If this gear is more than just a different skin or if it's better gear than someone who plays the game without participation of the card game no one knows yet outside of SOE.

The presentation that got the most "WoW!" was The Agency.

The gear is posted up on their website.  I looked at the EQ2 gear.  I didn't see anything in there that was unbalancing.  Most of it was cosmetic and a few things give you a bonus to exp gain.  A few of the cloaks and illusions looked like fun, not because that had awesome abilities you couldn't get anywhere else, but because they had new sparkle.

You get a free starter kit and you can loot boosters off the mobs.  Um, ok, this is prohibitive price raping how?

Also, pretty much every comment in this thread about eq2 pricing so far has been a lie.  It's 15 bucks a month not 30.  I bought the Play the Fae expansion box and got all the expansions and added content for 30 bucks AND a free month.  In addition to expansion content the EQ2 team has consistently released free zones (Raids, cities and etc...) and other content (two zones at least in the last 45 days).

To read some of the BS posted here you would think EQ2 had picked their pocket and then sold their wallet back to them.

Not to mention the utter lack of bitching about the $10 premium for EVERY console game these days. Seriously, get a grip. Someone makes a compelling minigame, something the genre needs WAY more of, and all you guys can do is bring up RMT?

No, not really. If you were buying equipment, you'd pay some dough and get equipment every time. Not everything is RMT and SOE isn't evil.

For fuck's sake...if half of you jacktards cared as much about politics as you do which MMO company is the most evil, we might actually be able to make positive changes in the world.

And why would being able to buy equipment be bad? Would it invalidate your 40-man catass raid? It would only be bad for PvP, and PvP is an afterthought in EQ and EQ2. You should play a game made for PvP.

If anything, RMT with the company supplying the goods is BETTER than an Exchange server, where players have to farm the stuff themselves at the detriment of other players who might rather adventure for it. Hell, it's already that way with some farming guilds. If I have to try to get something a few nights in a row, wasting all my playtime because some guild has it camped out, why shouldn't I be able to save my valuable time and buy it outright, and let the guild keep farming/cockblocking?

I fail to see the bad outside the PvP angle.

And none of this applies to the fucking card game, for crissakes, which is why I said RMT is ANOTHER TOPIC. Using your convoluted logic, I'm paying for the time which I earn gold which I could sell so I'm Buying Gold to Sell. I'm a gold farmer!

I always knew you were.

Dirty gold farmer.

Also, why would being able to buy levels be bad? After all, it's better to buy experience directly from SOE than to pay some farmer to play your character for you, right?

In fact, since you can buy levels and gear, you could pay SOE directly for a level 100 character decked out in solid platinum armor riding a dragon, shining like the sun, lord of all he surveys. Then you could buy a suitable for framing artistically posed screenshot of your character directly from SOE, hang it in a place of honor on your wall, and I guess at that point you'd just furiously masturbate to it. Because there'd be no reason to play the actual game.

You guys still haven't gotten with the times and embraced "cash shops"?

So? You don't have to. You can play the game just fine. Look, I wouldn't buy items, I'm just playing devil's advocate. I don't see how it hurts your game experience, if anything RMT would make things a bit less bottlenecked. Excepting of course PvP servers.

Hell, I play EQ2 with experience turned off. Anyway, back on topic:

This is awesome and getting awesomer.

The price point for MTGO was too much and SOE doesn't have the CCG gravitas.

EDIT: Ok, I am confused about boosters.

<NelsonVoice>Haha</NelsonVoice>

By prohibiting training of cards, it's just a much wider cash siphon back to Sony… …"company store" style "gold trading"… …unless the whole deal is more a lottery door prize type of deal… …but that would nullify the "game" play angle…

I still don't get this.  Are the boosters that you can buy NODROP but the ones you can loot tradeable?  Because if you can trade the paid-for boosters that's RMT again. 

Note I don't really have any objection to this as it sounds just like EvE's method of letting players sell isk via game time cards.  My only reason for asking is clarification. 

Thanks for that. I needed a good laugh.

I'm sure we'll see some huge market of people paying for boosters and then trading them for uber leet items...cause you know, the items gained from boosters will be so leet.   :roll:

I think the confusion is that there is 2 game spaces.  CCG space and World space(EQ/EQ2 combined).  You can buy stuff with cash in CCG Space.  But in World Space you can't buy trade them, just loot 'em turn them in for cards in CCG space.

You can trade the looted boosters in World Space as long as you haven't "opened" them. You cannot trade cards at all in CCG space. That's what I get out of the various posts/articles with Smed and clarifications from Grimwell.

I bet it does. I'd love, love, LOVE to play the Pirates game online. But see my earlier comments. I'm not paying full retail price for non-physical cards. I'm just not going to do that. It means SOE loses a potential customer, just like Magic: The Gathering lost a potential customer for having the same shittastic pricing scheme. Online CCG's that do not give any sort of real, reasonable valuation on the COLLECTIBLE cards can suck my left nut. If I pay $300 for virtual cards, and the servers get wiped, all I get is $15 (in MTG). I'm sure the situation is similar or worse in Pirates. That's balls no matter how you slice it.

The virtual cards cost almost nothing to produce. No printing costs, and in the case of the Pirates or Magic game, the art costs were paid for when the physical cards were made. Server and database costs are not going to equal to the printing cost per card. Hell, I can go to my local Hobbytown and buy a physical booster of Pirates for $3.69 as opposed to the $3.99 MSRP, and the cards retain their value and I can if I so choose, get them insured for that value. SOE's cards cost me full retail price, retain no value and aren't insured. Thus, I'm getting raped if I buy the virtual card game.

That's the definition of money-grubbing shitheel. I'm not asking for free cards, I'm asking for a more acceptable pricing scheme. $2.50 a booster pack, $7.50 a starter would be much more within reason.

I don't know about that. To each his own on that front, but pricing is pricing. The consumer decides what a products worth. Insulting the maker of something for pricing something out of your comfort zone is just futile and slightly silly.

You are completely misunderstanding.  People will want to play the card game if they don't have to pay for boosters with real cash.  Thus people who want to buy gold can buy boosters and then sell them in game for gold.

A huge chunk of EvE's subscriptions work off this model so I fail to see how you consider it a "good laugh".  It will obviously happen.  I don't personally care if it does but I'm curious if SOE has decided whether or not they are going to allow it.

Of course, it's futile. Welcome to Waterthread.org F13.net. We bitch in futility because it amuses us. This consumer, and a number of others that this consumer knows thinks the product is not worth that, INCLUDING people who actually buy and play the physical Pirates game. I realize to SOE and WOTC, that matters shit, because they are still making their money. I'm just bitching because I can, and Grim was the one who brought up the "we price it like everyone else" meme.

There is an endless stream of suckers…

No, that's still pretty damn laughable. Buy boosters to then wait around and sell them for gold? Why do that when you can buy from IGE or any other gold reseller and have your dough delivered within the hour and without as much hassle? The price point? Pff.

Moreover, that's NOT RMT. You see, once the cash becomes an in-game item (boosters), it ceases to be cash. Converting one in-game item to another is not RMT. I also haven't seen any indication that the paid-for-with-cash cards will be purchasable and then carried about on your EQ/EQ2 character. All indications are that it will be done within the CCG interface.

Just because there's a microtransaction model AND an MMO in close proximity doesn't mean it's enabling RMT (oh noes a gaem is at steak!) Perhaps your definition of the term needs work.

If you can buy anything valuable and tradable for in-game money with real money, it's effectively RMT. So what if IGE is easier? IGE will get your ass banned.

If the boosters don't show up in your character's inventory before being opened, then you're right, no RMT here.

Why, if this is also a standalone CCG (that doesn't require EQ or EQ2 to play) would purchased boosters EVER end up in inventory? Looted ones will, but those aren't purchased.

I have spilled my glass of water on the floor.  I must now get a rag or mop to clean it up.

Except for the "We're also giving it away completely free if you don't want to pay" meme.

I really don't understand the outrage here, forgive me for being dense.

Seems rather optional to me.  I don't understand the rage, while at the same time I do.  I believe that there are much better things to bitch about in EQ2 than this.

They aren't giving it away for free. You might get one starter pack free, but that's hardly going to make a good deck. And lootable boosters are not free, they require time.

Well, I'm certainly not going to go camp the booster drop (unless it is just that damn addictive and then I don't care) so any time spent that results in acquiring a booster drop will have been normal adventuring time in which case it's just another item on the loot table.

I'll also go with "another item on the loot table" here, since if I really wanted X in EQ2 I will have to work to get it anyway.  Whether X allows me to compete in EQ2_LOCATION or LoN_GAME is of marginal difference, really.  It's like getting angry at crafting drops.

Because it's allowed by the company and you'd have no chance of being banned?  Unless boosters drop from the sky in game the price point will be better too most likely due to competition. 


That's true I forget RMT is supposed to be considered currency exchange.   I'll remember to use the word "gold buying" next time.  :roll:

I don't really care though I just want an answer to my question of whether or not paid-for boosters are going to be tradeable or not.  It merely piques my curiosity because I'm curious what the normal userbase reaction will be.

You sure talk alot for someone who keeps repeating they don't care in every post.

I can't get my panties in a bunch about RMT for a TCG.

TCGs that aren't shit are built around the RMT price model. You don't pwn in good TCGs simply by having the most expensive cards.

But I agree that there are other ways you could do it, and they wouldn't automatically be bloody awful, and

I can understand the concern that allowing trading of purchased cards inside a MMOG is blatantly equivalent to enabling EQ2 gold sales on all servers. It's not quite RMT because there is no way to get your money out, but it is pretty close. That said, nothing in the press release said this was going to be possible. Sounds like your EQ characters can loot packs, which then appear in your EQTCG account next time you log in, if so there is nothing left to complain about here.

I merely asked Grimwell a question then had to have my question insulted.  I still want an answer and thus I defend the question but defending it is very likely to make people think I'm taking a stance against RMT.  In fact I lean towards the other side in this particular part of things in that I think they should allow people to trade paid-for boosters.

Also I didn't say I don't care.  I said I don't care either way.  Which in English means I am impartial to which answer I get.  I care very much about getting an answer though.

According to a post in the EQ2 forum, you will be able to trade cards.  Perhaps in a MTGO-style lobby area, or some such. 

It also specifies that what will be no-trade about the things are the item rewards from opening boosters, not the boosters or cards.  So the only way to get TCGSword_01 is to open a pack that contains one; you can't buy one from another player who got one in a booster.  (Sounds to me like a lot of items will be wasted on characters who can't use them.)

I would guess taht if you buy a booster for real money, it appears in the TCG interface directly, without passing through the EQ/EQ2 world.  This just makes sense, given you'll be able to create a Station Account to play the game with, without an EQ/EQ2 sub.

--
Alkiera

Hmm, it sounds like they could some use community relations.  I wonder if they have anybody for that?

You're a funny man...

I think the reason your question got attacked was because of the way you stated it.  You just assumed that boosters that were purchased were going to have an in EQ or EQ2 game component and then proceeded to harp on that aspect.

Heck, as far as I know boosters bought outside of game don't even have the in game items.  Add in the fact that the items themselves are relatively trivial which makes any accusations of buying success pretty esoteric anyway and you can see why the chicken little act is ruffling some fethers.  :wink:

I assumed no such thing.  That's exactly what I've been asking about from the start.  I don't think he was attacking me I merely think he found my question to be worthless.  I don't take that personally but I will continue to defend the validity of the question.   I still want to know from a credible source whether or not the paid-for boosters or cards will be tradeable in game.    If they aren't even accessible in game then the answer is obviously no.

Your comment about buying success accusations seems misplaced though considering I've made no such argument and I personally support being able to trade the purchased boosters/cards in game for gold.  In fact I don't see any point to the whole exercise unless such a thing is possible.   Yet at the same time I suspect them doing so will cause some annoyance to players who harp about gold buying.   This is the source of my interest.   They seem screwed either way so Im curious which poison they've picked and why.  Of course knowing Smedly the answer is probably whichever one he made the mistake of assuming wasn't going to lead to failure.

Jeff Butler?

It looks to me that the rewards in the cards are largely the kind of things that Korean companies do RMT for. Not Uber Sword of Foozle Whacking, but XP potions, mounts, and other minor stuff. As someone actually playing EQ2, these don't really bother me particularly. Pretty much everyone has a freebie quest carpet and the large number of veteran players have virtually unlimited number of xp potions anyway.

I haven't looked at every item on the page, but is there anything there that's really significant?

Imagine if we limited this conversation to people actually playing EQ2, heh. I won't speak for all of us, but I'm psyched about having a new, free minigame to enjoy. Signe said she won't play though :(

Again, even if SOE sells items outright, where's the harm? If what someone else has in a PvE mmo bothers you, you need to stop playing PvE mmo. Hell, going back to the retort against my original statement of that point, let'm sell levels, too. Then people who only want to crush their way to the endgame can get the fuck out of the zones the rest of us play in most of the time.

Maybe I should start griping about how people who have time to play mmo more than I do get good items, that's unfair. You won't let me buy them, but you'll let people catass them! UNFAIR! This argument is turning me into an RMT fan, nice work.

 :evil:

Yes.  Actually you did.


And you just haven't stopped harping on it.  You've been trying to equate the card acquiring mechanism to RMT since pretty much the beginning of this thread.  The only way that this could be RMT is if people can buy boosters out of game with real money and sell them in game to get items.  Nothing has been said, that I've seen, to support that.

How could it be popular without trading in the gamespace? Groove on this-- what if LoN is actually a really good game? They're getting 100s of thousands of EQ and EQ2 players in the door for free, and who knows, maybe a bunch of them will get addicted and started buying boosters. Even if they don't, they have a healthy player base to build upon right from day 1, all without compromising EQ/EQ2 with RMT. When you think about it, it's really kind of brilliant.

This also opens SOE for legal issues. I think its only a matter of time before the government starts looking at stuff like this as Gambling.

If "stuff like this" means "the video game industry as a whole," you may actually have a scintilla of rightness here.

Gaming (gambling) laws have applied to video games for a long time -- at least in some instances. The mobile game development set has to worry about whether mobile games that have RL prizes are games of chance or sufficiently skill-based to avoid that designation. However, in the case of SOE, I think your statement is really off-base. There are no RL prizes here -- this is a matter of converting hobby items into cash, which is more of a tax issue for the end user than it is a gambling-or-not issue for the developer. Hell, this only even triggers that level of concern if you can trade unopened boosters for gold, then cash out that gold. Even then, it's pretty silly to try to draw the analogy to gambling.

Just because loot tables involve a level of randomness, there's still enough "player skill" required to hunt mobs that it's not gambling.

Yea, but in the US we call online gambling "skills-based" gaming because you gotta play pool or sommat  :evil:

Skills based, in the context of mobile games, is stuff where you may get a random selection of things (letters in a scrabble game), but your ultimate score depends on how well you use your pieces. For some reason, this is different than poker, where your skill is bluffing, knowing when to fold, etc. I don't have time to get into (i.e. fully research) caselaw, but I can assure you that EQ2 and the LoN games aren't going to be in much trouble any time soon.

Since folks are having fun bashing SOE, I'll mention they just put in a kickass spam filter. Plat sellers have been shown the hand. It's working great with no false positives. Spam-a-way!

No I did not.  You are stating that I'm assuming the boosters will be present in game somehow(beyond dropping off mobs).  I was simply refusing to assume that they are not in game.  If you believe these two are the same then I don't know what else to say.


My entire question is whether or not you can trade ingame items/gold for cards somehow.   Indeed that would be the "only way" that this could be RMT.  That is in fact the only way I suggested it would be RMT in the first place.  It is also true nothing has been said to support that it will be possible.  I don't see how any of that precludes asking about it though.

Moved the Ramayan discussion over here:

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=10655.0