f13.net

Aww, that's too sad. Oh well. We still have Dawn to look forward to.

Can you dig (vertically) in Darkfall?

Also, Duke related: The Chair Story (revival) (http://gamingisstupid.com/2009/05/06/the-chair-story-revival/)

This will be the most interesting or most boring post mortem ever, but I want to know what the holy hell they did for 13 fucking years thinking they wouldn't run out of money doing it.

At this point, like most corporate bungling (or not  :oh_i_see:) we'll never know the whole story.

But that chair story is so crazy I can see it being true, or having truth in there somewhere.

 :awesome_for_real:

Yeah, I don't buy the chair story except maybe as a very creative embellishment.  I might buy the idea behind it, that the whole thing was planned to be that way, but not that the guy was threatened with pieces of busted-up chair.

I've known too many unstable nerds to pass that story off as fiction out of hand.

Plus I'm aware of certain studios having done insanely illegal things (for example, what basically amounts to kidnapping and deprivation of liberty for an extended period) to their employees but ultimately get off because no-one wants to risk their job. Which is exactly what the original story says - he could have run to the police with that story, but it would have cost him his job and his career.

This is a story I wrote...

The chair story is fiction, the guy states it in the first line on the site. Reading comprehension FTW:

This is a story I wrote on another site in response to someone wanting me to elaborate more on a “chair story” I had referred to that happened during my time at 3DR.

I mean they were going to stab him with a wooden splinter in the middle of the busiest place in L.A.?  It's preposterous.

You really should have read past the first 6 words.

For everyone who is interested in a hopefully interesting fictionalization of the reason DNF took so long, feel free to click the link at the very top.

In my best interest, I'm going to be somewhat candid for now. I will, however, elaborate a bit on some things:

The 2001 trailer was 100% scripted cinematic, and not actual gameplay. They built specific demo maps just to record video from to make a trailer. Everything you see in that trailer was phony.

The typical work flow there went something like this:
Designer would be assigned a task (build a new map, rebuild an old map, polish a bit of a map, etc.). Designer would work on said task for two, three weeks, a month, all the while lower management would be looking over it and making sure it was going in a "good general direction." Designer would move on to another task. A month or two later upper management would finally look at the work and say, "It's all wrong, do it again." Rinse, repeat.

Entire maps would be done from the ground up, almost to beta quality, and then thrown out simply because no one would make decisions early on in the process. (Read up on Valve's 'orange box' method of design -- that's how you make games)

Another example of WTF is the fact that there was one part of one map that was being worked on before I started working there. Nineteen months later and the same designer was still working on the same part of that same map... I'm not blaming the designer, it wasn't his fault.

I think the biggest problem that the company had in general is being self-funded. When you're a developer working directly with a publisher and you have milestones to meet it's a whole different ballgame. If you don't meet those milestones, you don't get any money. That right there will keep your project on schedule. If, however, you're funding it yourself, you don't really have anyone to answer to except yourself and you can quickly lose sight of just how much money is going out the door.

People are gullible.

How to Fleece Venture Capatilists 101

Leaked gameplay footage (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/316675.html). Looks like a fun time. Wonder if it'll be picked up by Activision or EA.

A potential view to the events that saw 3DR close. (http://www.duke4.net/comment.php?comment.news.267)

That has got to be the sarchasm. No one can be that fucking deluded.  :why_so_serious:

Welcome to the internet, you look like you're new here.

The chair story is good, but a little on the mafioso side. It does explain the Duke Nukem feature creep and Unreal Engine announcements, but I can't shake the feeling that all the decent talent left 3DR at least 5 years ago.

Yeah, he did post an update to say it was just fiction, not fact. (http://gamingisstupid.com/2009/05/06/the-chair-story-revival/)

You missed the part where it's a gag.

Nope, got that. Trouble is we don't know for sure if it was a gag, or if it was, which part? The best lies are 90% truth, which is why I wondered about the hazing thing at the end. It felt bolted on merely for effect.

My point: sometimes the guys to be scared of don't look like guys to be scared of.

If you thought the Duke Nukem Forever saga was over when 3D Realms and Take-Two settled their legal differences, you were (possibly) wrong. Kotaku is reporting that a build of the fabled shooter is now in Gearbox Software's hands, and the full game will eventually come to market.

Sounds like a long shot--and it feels like it is, considering this is DNF we're talking about, a game that has been in development for over a decade--but apparently this rumor is crashing against some sort of truth.

(http://i54.tinypic.com/dpkb9k.jpg) (http://www.ustream.tv/2kgameslive)

Interestingly enough, these are problems that the 360 version of Borderlands does not suffer from (other than 'that guy' leaving trade windows open forever).

Just sayin'...

Well, it's still the last few percent of the game that makes or breaks it, and there's been too many games lately that I've felt has been let down by those very last few percent. I'm still not daring to be too optimistic, but this is a game I really want to be good.

Yeah.  That'll justify the time involved.

 :awesome_for_real:

They could release a turd in a box for all it means to me. Seriously who fucking cares about the time involved besides the developers? I doubt any of us lost sleep or had quality of life issues because goddamned duke nukem didn't ship on time. So even if they release a sub-par game it's still ok with me, probably won't play it though.

More duke footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-97N6jNKb4

In fact, I think more should think of games as something fun, instead of just RAWR RAWR SRS BZNZ.

The professionalism on show there was astounding.

 :oh_i_see:

Actually, I saw nothing wrong there. In fact, I think more should think of games as something fun, instead of just RAWR RAWR SRS BZNZ. Kind of like CCP, only without all the hilariously obvious bugs.

How dare you compare CCP to that. They have drinks and act casual, they don't treat it like a Justin Bieber concert and swear because it's HIP and COOL.

You just made me search him up on youtube just to figure out who the fuck he is.

I hate you now and must hunt you down.

Ok, that trailer was just as crass, idiotic and over the top as it should have been.

awesome in other words. Seriously what the PC gaming community needs. A game focused on style, entertainment and fun instead of psychotic graphics improvements that make it impossible to play or some microtransaction system that makes the game cost $70 before it's any fun.

I suppose they have plenty of time to screw it up yet... we'll see.

It looks even dumber than I remember the first 3D one being.

I'm glad someone aren't trying to be 100% politically correct. I'm tired of politically correct, I want a game I can sit and giggle at from time to time because it just goes into hilarity overdrive. In fact, the more juvenile it is, the more I want this game.

A game focused on style, entertainment and fun instead of psychotic graphics improvements that make it impossible to play

You aren't aware why this game has been in development for 12 years, are you?

What the hell was that video, Leisure Suit Duke?  :oh_i_see:

How do you remember him being, cause uh, that seems pretty like I remember.

I feel like this game is trolling the shit out of Halo.
Which works for me.

I don't get it.

Aliens invade earth, shit goes to hell, humanity stands on the brink, and instead of some grand space opera attempting to reconcile the human will to survive with some hero, we get Duke punching aliens in the balls.
I couldn't help thinking the flying space craft looked like Covenant ships, and some of the enemies reminded me of things I killed in Halo.

It would be trolling Halo a lot harder if Duke wasn't doing this before anyone ever thought of Halo.

I thought we weren't posting naked links anymore?

+) In 'Capture the Babe' when you grab the other teams babe sometimes she'll start to freak out as you take her back to your base, so you have to give her a gentle smack to quiet her down

 :drill:

 :drill:

But WHERE do you smack her? Given it's Duke, I'm going to say it's on the ass.

Duke 3D was alllllll about the multiplayer.

Good times.

It can be hard to determine the exact date for hell freezing over.

Unfortunately, the multiplayer on this appears to be 4 on 4 and naught else.

Moreover, this isn't about censorship - to which I remain implacably opposed (although not to age ratings, which are an entirely different issue). Rather, it's about game companies, particularly those with excellent reputations and those entrusted with well-known franchises and brands, simply having the maturity to remember that they're part of an ecosystem, part of a wider entertainment medium that's still finding its way in the world - and part of a wider society in which women, and many minority groups, are still discriminated against (sometimes violently) every day.

This argument has never left the station. BEING a sexist and BEING a racist in how you deal with other people is a bad thing. But a game like this isn't going to make people see women any differently. Like "wow I didn't know I could beat them and then they'll just have sex with me!". Over the top satire or near-satire level shit like this isn't what causes people to actually form  and hold those insidious views of their fellow humans.

This argument has never left the station. BEING a sexist and BEING a racist in how you deal with other people is a bad thing. But a game like this isn't going to make people see women any differently. Like "wow I didn't know I could beat them and then they'll just have sex with me!". Over the top satire or near-satire level shit like this isn't what causes people to actually form  and hold those insidious views of their fellow humans.

Tell that to the crazies who think it's fine to see someone's head explode in slow motion, but if there's even a hint of a nipple, STOP THE PRESSES CALL THE MORALITY POLICE STOP THIS SHIT BEFORE IT CORRUPTS OUR CHILDREN.
Or something. I dunno. I don't really get the whole "must protect our children from everything" generation.

10% off preorder on Steam as of now...

Yes, you’re asleep. Yes, this is a dream. There can’t be any other explanation for this: the game that shouldn’t be, couldn’t be, is. After over a decade in development, multiple project reboots, all the crazy promises in the world, the closure of its original developer, a shock resurrection at the hands of the Borderlands/Brothers In Arms devs and another, final delay for luck, Duke Nukem Forever is finished, Gearbox Software have announced. It’s gone gold. It’s actually gone gold. It’s coming to a PC near you next month.

Or at least it would be, were this not a dream. (It’s not a dream). (Or is it?) (It isn’t). (Or is it?)

That end of the world guy was only off by a couple of days.

Solid "meh," maybe for $20.

Total Biscuit WTF is Duke Nukem Forever (first 45 minutes of the game or so)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5Yngipvz6M

I generally like TB's videos but he was being horrible in that one.   He clearly doesn't like not shooting things but he didn't have to repeat it like a broken record.

TB's got his 5 hour viewpoint version up too.

Watching DNF reminds me of a really bad HL2 clone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekgW6ddkpTc

I don't take video gaming seriously.

I love this game, then again I don't take video gaming seriously.

From what I've read, a lot of that is due to George Broussard (sp) and is why the thing took 12 years to not be released before it was canned. Lots of "add that as well" "and we need some of those" etc.

At the end of the day 3DRealms didn't release Duke Nukem Forever because they wanted it to be the best game ever and it never got there. Gearbox pushed a title they must have been iffy about straight out the door.

Not a personal criticism against Azazel, but I've seen a lot of comments about "don't blame Gearbox for DNF" and I have to wonder why not blame Gearbox since they are perfectly happy to accept that $60 from you to play the game.

Despite the general feeling of meh this game is generating, and the fact that it is Gearbox, the only reason I haven't bought this yet is because of the regional pricing markup in Steam.  If I could have paid the same price as everyone else I think I would have wasted my money by now and been disappointed.

That would be difficult to do since it isn't actually out yet.

Sounds like the Duke boat sailed, stolen by Bulletstorm.

Stolen by bulletstorm? How?

Looked to me like they did the duke parts well enough, they just forgot the game part.

Well thats the point, in Duke 3D there weren't really "Duke parts" it was just part of the game.

To be fair, it's been a while since Duke 3D.  Things have changed.  Even Quake and Doom have stories these days.  If they'd taken fifteen years to release a game with a well known IP and came away with something like Serious Sam, they'd be a bigger laughingstock than Daikatana.  You'd have to emphasize the character of Duke, that's all people care about this game for.  What else is there?  It's not like Duke 3D was well known for it's realistic water physics or something, that no other game has duplicated in the last decade and a half, and people were looking forward to that.  They're looking for Duke.

To be fair, it's been a while since Duke 3D.  Things have changed.  Even Quake and Doom have stories these days.  If they'd taken fifteen years to release a game with a well known IP and came away with something like Serious Sam, they'd be a bigger laughingstock than Daikatana.  You'd have to emphasize the character of Duke, that's all people care about this game for.  What else is there?  It's not like Duke 3D was well known for it's realistic water physics or something, that no other game has duplicated in the last decade and a half, and people were looking forward to that.  They're looking for Duke.

It's not like Duke 3D was well known for it's realistic water physics or something, that no other game has duplicated in the last decade and a half, and people were looking forward to that.  They're looking for Duke.

I think you are mistaken. Some of the appeal is Duke but a lot of the appeal is Duke gameplay, something this game has little of. This has a 2 weapon limit, regenerating health, linear scripted levels, etc. Very little of what made Duke a compelling game seems to be in this game, it's just a mediocre FPS with Duke involved.

Sure, you can't say "let's design a good game" but you can say "let's design a game that has the same elements that people remember and are expecting in a revival."

I'm not trying to defend their choices with regards to 2-weapon limits or scripted levels or whatever.  The game still hasn't unlocked here, so I don't know how shit the gameplay is.  I just don't think it's reasonable to expect a game company to release a game from 1996 in 2011 with a AAA budget.  It's the whole "Duke is in a cutscene, WTF that wasn't in Duke 3D, this game sucks" angle that is really weird to me.  They have to move with the times, you can't just re-package a game from fifteen years ago with a graphical upgrade and expect it to sell like Call of Duty.

Could be that I'm just retarded, too.  I was under the impression that Serious Sam wasn't doing particularly well financially, however, a cursory search suggests that I'm full of shit.

Did anyone ever really think that this was going to spend a million years in development, actually come out, and then on top of all that be a good game?

Did anyone ever really think that this was going to spend a million years in development, actually come out, and then on top of all that be a good game?

Even if they released a nearly identical game people would have hated it.  It's been 15 years.  Tastes change enough that few would have been satisfied once they had it in their hands.

I feel that it's been shown fairly definitively that Duke 3D was not "South Park offensive" (read: halfhearted, 'apolitical' crypto-conservatism) but was rather an precise and laudable progressive statement pulled off with minimal resources, and with excellent gameplay as its base. The revelatory dominatrix scene in DN3D:AE consists of a couple sprites and some tinny sound clips. In fact, that's all the game had at its disposal in any scene. This is absolutely remarkable.

The one 'problem' with Duke 3D is that this minimalism left space for bad people to void their horrors into it and consequently undermine everything the game was actually doing. Effectively: "Duke always hated women, because that's how I played him." And because 'Duke' did it, it's all naturally acceptable.

It's safe to assume that DNF's creators and fans read the dominatrix scene as "hurf, dominatrixes are silly shit" - because everything about Duke 3D was "silly shit" - because there's this very real perception (voiced openly and repeatedly here, and clearly held by the game's creators) that humor is a somehow an apolitical violence. The belief is that the sole purpose and effect of comedy is the mitigated degradation of a target. By 'mitigated', I mean that the humor is considered "just a joke" and "harmless escapism" so there's no consequence to the attacks. They might not even be considered attacks at all. This is not "real" violence, they assert. Duke is and has always been, to them, "just a stupid videogame."

What this attitude reveals is, of course, that people are supporting the rape and hatred perpetuated by DNF's Fake-Duke with utter sincerity. DNF allows them to escape from the society that would tell them rape is wrong and freely enjoy the trappings of rape culture in a "safe" context. DNF's existence as a mass-media event allows them to consider themselves not deviants and aggressors, but simply indulging in some collective (and therefore "normal") rape-wish. The "ironic" approach serves a similar purpose of protecting the DNF creator/player from from being conscious of their hatred.

This appeal to "escapism" - the paradoxical assertion that Duke is desirable because of its lack of impact, relevance, emotional engagement or overall value - is tied into the celebration of its [alleged] "offensiveness".

The real Duke naturally would tell you that an offense involves having a target and a plan. Offense is a strategy. (Again, a game's story and its gameplay are indivisible.)

Clearly then, DNF is not actually offensive. It's just, I don't know, tragic? Unfortunate? DNF is "offensive" only in the sense that a child playing with a gun is an "offense". It's simply the terrible threat of power in the wrong hands. "Wrong" by way of ignorance and inexperience: ignorance of the power held and inexperience with regards to how or why to wield it.

What it comes down to is, as I have shown before, that DNF apologism is anti-Duke to the core.

#AlwaysBetOnDuke too many went too far with their reviews...we r reviewing who gets games next time and who doesn't based on today's venom

I have to apologize to the community. I acted out of pure emotion. I will be sending each of you a private apology.

I would like a quick moment of your time to humbly ask for your forgiveness. I made a major error in judgment. I acted out of pure emotion without any thought to what I was saying. It is with a sad heart that I come to you now asking that you forgive me. I posted a Tweet this evening saying that I was reviewing The Redner Group’s policy for future reviews of video games based on today’s Duke Nukem Forever scores. I must state for the record I was acting on my behalf. 2K and all other clients had nothing to do with my comment. I want to be very clear that this came through me and was in no way affiliated with any of my clients especially my former client 2K.

Though I didn’t name names, I did say that I thought some reviews had gone too far in tone. Meaning, that the tone of some of the reviews was poor. I respect the scores, it had to deal with the tone. I was unable to properly convey that in 140 characters. But that it beside the point. We are all entitled to our opinions regardless of score, tone or meaning. My response was a juvenile act on my part. I know better and my emotion got the best of me. I have worked very hard on this project. I want it to succeed. I just got upset and acted out.

I believe we are all allowed to voice our opinions and that opinions by their very nature are correct. Many of you quickly pointed out my error in judgment. For that I thank you and apologize.

I truly respect what you do. You have helped me achieve a little bit of success in this industry. I depend upon you. Your coverage is of the utmost importance to me. You have helped me secure coverage for all of the projects that I have touched. I have tried to treat you all with respect, dignity and honesty. Tonight I threw that all away, and I am extremely sorry.

The video game industry is an industry that I love. I have tried to dedicate myself to this industry. Tonight I failed the industry.

With much respect, I hope that when we meet again you will be able greet me with a smile and without malice. I will gladly do the same.

I am truly sorry for what I did. I know better than that. If I have caused you any issues, now or in the past, I apologize.

He also said that he'd be surprised to see the game earn a review score down in the 7s. "Fortunately the game's good, I've played it, it's a great game," he said. "You're going to see a range of scores; I'd be surprised to see anything get down into the '7' range, maybe a couple 10s - you're going to get the range there. It really doesn't matter. Anywhere in that range - it's not going to change the results for what we're actually talking about."

but I just don't get why people think DNF should be a rehash of the same concepts from D3D with a high-res skin

I mean why not go really oldschool and make it a 2D platformer like the first two games in the series?

I bought this game for the multiplayer.  It does not disappoint.  

As for this worship of D3D...  I enjoyed it very much but I just don't get why people think DNF should be a rehash of the same concepts from D3D with a high-res skin.  Shit, I have D3D for the xbox live arcade... I could just play that.  I mean why not go really oldschool and make it a 2D platformer like the first two games in the series?

I understand and I do see the game's shortcomings.  However, before the gameplay was revealed there was already the expectation that it shoulld be identical to D3D.  I don't mind what they were going for with cutscenes, interactive minigames, and all the non-shooting stuff.  I just think it is not as good as it could have been.  I don't really care for two weapons at a time.  I much prefer the holoduke from D3D.  Linear maps are definately a let down, too.

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/video-game-article/duke-nukem-feminism.php

SE article is lulz.

IMO what made DN3D interesting was that it was parody of Action Movies and the Shooters of the time.

They didn't do that this time around. So 9.99 sale on steam. maybe.

How do you figure?  I thought the Duke "attitude" was one of the things they got mostly right, personally.

So the real reason 2k bought DNF?  Not for the game itself, but so they could make more Duke games (http://www.shacknews.com/article/68989/take-two-ceo-promises-duke)

If only they'd reskinned and rethemed serious sam, we'd be more happy.

So the real reason 2k bought DNF?  Not for the game itself, but so they could make more Duke games (http://www.shacknews.com/article/68989/take-two-ceo-promises-duke)

So if I buy this on Steam does that mean it's no longer vaporware?

So as shitty as the game was, it was still #2 in June selling 376,000 units (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/07/duke-nukem-forever-sold-376k-units-in-the-us-in-june.ars)

With sales data, It seems like *customers* love Duke. I guess sometimes we want greasy hamburgers instead of caviar...

The promotion was pretty well done, and the pre-release hype train seemed to have the entirety of the gaming media loudly onside. At least until they played it.


The guy at my local EB games was dressed like Duke when I went in there one day during their "Hero" sale. I asked the girl working there who was dressed in a Britney Spears schoolgirl outfit if she was some kind of sailor-schoolgirl from a Street Fighter or fighting game and she told me that "I'm one of his whores."  
:uhrr:

If it was free it wouldn't be too good to pass up.