f13.net

Every year, a new game comes out. and every year it fails to reach the expectations that I have from playing FFXI for the last 5 years. Even games that come out, dont even reach the graphic quality of this game. Nothing that I have played even comes close. Guess my question is, will there ever be something that carrys on what Variant started and what imo, SE made perfect. Will there ever be another one.

Vanguard, was suppose to be it but failed on all levels. Aion could be it, but to me it just looks like a JP-WoW clone. With a new expansion coming out, im sure that FFXI will be around another 5 years but with all the bombs, and the new ones i just dont see there being another.

Grunk
the DRK of remora

No.

Enjoy.

In terms of gameplay, there's one thing you can point to in WoW and say, "This is better than FFXI", and that's the fact that you don't have to have a perfect group of 6 to gain xp. FFXI slavishly follows the tank-healer-dps paradigm, and once you're level 8-12 or so, you can kiss solo play goodbye.

In terms of technology, of course, SE limited themselves (imo) by making the game cross-platform to the PS2. I hated the keyboard interface in that game.

Outside of that, I thougt that it was a great game. I tend to agree that nothing has come out since that's better at what FFXI does (i.e. forced-grouping diku-descended mmog).

your dead wrong about the perfect party stuff. No, you do not need a perfect party, you do need a balanced party. and what i would define as balance is 3 back line and 3 front line. Now it doesnt matter what they are, as long as they are of that arch type.  As far as the lack of solo play, thats also not true. I have a friend who soloed hes blm to the high 60s (by killing pets). I really would rather no have the whole WoW debate.

1. Reading this made my eyes bleed. 

2.  You're trying to engage in a debate that chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla.  If you want to start a thread about the wonder that is FFXI (A game I couldn't stand), I'd focus on the mechanics/graphics/UI elements that you feel made it superior. 

Emo Much?

I really feel like I missed my chance at the whole random, controversial question-as-first-post thing.

Do you have a point?  Look at the sentence structure and capitalization in that post and tell me that it doesn't make you cringe a little.  We're grown-ups here.

Emo Allot?

Thank you.  You've made my point for me.

A lot*

you emo A LOT. how about, I take your avatar sig, and give him a box cutter?

My point isn't EMO, but rather that any new poster to these forums will be taken more seriously if they attempt to write in a coherent manner. 

Or if you prefer: +1 OMGLOLZ

FFXI was one of the more painfull games I have ever played.  Yes, it was pretty.  But everything else about it was fucked up in MMO terms, from the forced grouping (YOU CANNOT SOLO.  IF YOUR FRIEND FOUND A WAY, IT WAS BY DOING THE MOST HORRENDOUS GRINDIEST THINGS IMAGINABLE FOR HOURS UPON HOURS EVERY DAY), shit-tacular movement speeds, harsh death penalties (for how insanely easy it was to be pawned by a rabbit 5 levels lower than you), etc.  

I kind of liked its auction system.

Many of my friends and I all started playing it as our first group mmo (I have been playing MMOs since the beginning, but finally got a group of friends to play with me), and all of us lasted no more than two months, most of us only one.  WE JUST COULDNT DO IT.  Even when we all worked together, over ventrillo, to go grouping.  It just wasnt fun for any of us.  After that, with all those exact same people, we all started wow together, and stayed solidly subscribed from the time the game launched until right now (all of us finally unsubscribed this month due to burn out/work/gong to school half way across the world/lack of other people to play with for those reasons, etc.).

Its nice that you like it, and the game certainly had a certain amount of charm in its style, but holy fuck.  To me, at least, it fucked up about everything I can think of in terms of mmo gameplay.  Just too painful to casuals, even with a group of dedicated people to group with.  Advancement was so painfull slow :(

edit: christ, there was only 2 responses when i started typing this.  Grunk is kind of a dick, I wish I hadnt drunkenly responded now.

If FFXI is your thing, I think the closest thing to it would be EQ2. However, they've spent a lot of time moving EQ2 away from the heavy group thing. I still spend all my time (and I mean all) in a group though. I think the graphics are good, they get better in the new zones where they went more for a fantasy look and less with the photorealism.

It's still more soloable and not quite as punishing as FFXI was. There's no meaningful death penalty and you can solo. While you can group with, say, all mages, but it's not as efficient as the classic tank/healer/utility/dps thing and the whole dynamics of a party with different roles working together is there.

In any case, the trial is free. It won't show you the "real" game though any more than soloing up to 10th will show you what FFXI is about.

If you like FFXI and you can find groups and such, I don't see any reason why you'd want to switch. The getting a group was the killer for me. The last time I reupped was one of those come back we'll restore your character, I took the time on the phone to get it restored, everything was there. I spent 3 nights sitting with my LFG tag, begging, spamming, and all that for the kazam key without a single offer. I find the fun of grouping to be worth spending 15 minutes or a half an hour looking for a group, particularly if I can craft or do easy quest steps or such. But not multiple entire evenings. And I was an WHM. Goddess help other classes.

Teh gram snak is emoz oic ty -- bff jill

My friend, played about 4 hours a day as a blm and got to lvl60 full AF, in about 2 months. He would put hes flag up and go solo. really easy stuff. Now he mostly just plays in mana burn pt's (get a bunch of BLM's and blow $hit up). I point him out because, I wish i had it that good when i was of lower level.

I just feel the need to point out, a lot of misconceptions. In regards to harsh XP penalty. With Raise two on my lvl75 I loose 500 XP (in no way harsh at all). With raise 3, I think I loose like a 100 and change? I mean, I fail to see this as harsh?

The only thing i felt was hard... was CoP.

Now as far as LFG, I am DRK so I have always had trouble LFG. Here is the thing, at around lvl40 or so, i stopped LFG. I actually went and built my pt and every night, as long as i follow the 3 back line / 3 front line I was good. Sure some nights, you dont get the balance you want but there is a lot to do in FFXI.

I didn't think the death penalties in Everquest were harsh either until I played something without them.

FFXI is extremely punitive compared to other games in terms of death penalties, group composition, and soloability. If you don't think so, then it's because you haven't played anything else.

Grunk is awesome.

Next he is going to tell us that FF is where "teh hardcore sons of emo btichs play".

For those of you late to the thread:

OP "Will there ever be another game as great as FFXI?"

Reply "Well, WoW is pretty good."

OP "We're not talking about WoW."

Reply "FFXI sucks compared to almost every other game out there."

OP "FFXI does not suck, you just don't understand it's greatness."

Reply "Well, what's great about it?"

OP "One guy managed to solo most of the way to the cap.  Once."

And a slight detour off into grammar snake land in the middle there.  So far this is my favorite thread today.

All we need now is a captioned cat picture or a Rick Astley video link.

AMIRITE?!?!?!

Nah, I am not trying to travel down that road. I would say, I am HC when i have time to be HC. I work 40+ hours a week... hey sometimes i got a lot of time to play and sometimes i dont. Now, did the bulk of my milestones happen in FFXI while i was out of work for 6 months? sure but the truth is, most of the people who play other mmos, play them a lot no matter what. IMO, this guy, who logs on for 2 hours a day. He doesnt exist.

Just to clarify here, are you saying that you think long-term subscribers who play less than 2 hours a day on average do not exist (or are virtually non-existent)?

Seriously, this is probably the best line ever.

Praise be Grunk.

Preach the gospel that is FFXI.

It was fun when I played it, now that I am smarter and wiser, I will never play it again.

My MGI is lvl 60 when he GHW with KYH. Sometimes I go to HG to JAK but when HGY I can also LDI for JE.

Why do you hate freedom? You only embolden the enemy.
2 hours? Heh. Try half-hour to an hour. Maybe two hours on a weekend if I'm not busy. YOIW. But not to a shitty game like FFXI.

I solo, don't use up much bandwidth nor content, and I stay subbed for about half the year, every year. I am the target audience. You are an anomaly.

I see it as. Someone has a negative experience and instead of trying to figure out, why that happens, they quit.

That most of the negative experiences that people have had in FFXI due to them not fully understand what they were actually doing.

Of course, if you don’t want to think, yeah you can go play WoW.

FFXI must have popped grunk's cherry.

So what you're you saying is that people who dont like the game are actually having fun, but they just dont realize how much fun they are actually having do to the crappy design of the game?

You know, I played FFXI in a fixed group on a semi-casual basis with real life friends for almost a year. We played 1-2 hours, maybe 3 times a week. I guess I don't exist.

We hit the renkai(?) cockblock. We all decided to get up early on Saturday to camp this one mob for the little papyrus or whatever the fuck you needed for the leveling quest until we all had completed it. After 7 hours and only two drops, most, including me, said fuck it. The only people who would have camped a spot for a ultra rare drop so they could continue to play the game are people who enjoy getting kicked in the balls.

It didn't seem so bad at the time, except you know the fact you could actually DE-LEVEL, the gigantic cockblocks like the subjob quests, the eternal noobs in vulkrum dunes who aren't competent enough to group and thus stuck there, at the last place you can basically solo in the game, and the completely unforgiving combat. If you get an add, you are dead. If that mob cons at the high end of 'strong' or whatever you are dead. If a group wayyy over on the map dies, you die because of a mob train. Oh, and don't forget the minimum 20 minute travel to get to the fun. That was the best.

It's saving graces were the art style, the auction house, and the combat chain extra damage system. When compared to latest generation casual-friendly games like wow, this game is garbage. Yes, some of these issues have been fixed, no I will never go back. I forgot the playonline little shitty way to get into the game that took two minutes longer than it should have. That was terrible too. No, fuck you, I don't want to play tetra master.

Furthermore, you really scream 'mole' or possibly 'deluded idiot' and sound about 13. How the hell did you find this place, and why did you decide to open that metaphorical hole in your face before you scouted the lay of the land?

que?

It popped my cherry, and like most first times it seemed great until I got with an experienced partner.

Haha!

You are funny!  And witty!  I like you!

Since you are cool and funny, I am going to share with you this awsome video I just took while I stumbled to the mcdonalds for a mega mac. (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9073695037590754457) 

Its the most fucking amazing sign I have ever seen!  Its like a holigram.  The quality is horrible on this stupid cell phone picture, but in real life, you can actually make out the details of the fake mans helmet and vest and stuff.  The flag even billows and waves as he swings it!  I cant believe we actually pay people to do this in America when Japan just puts uncaring awsome light hologram thingys.

I wanted to steal it, but then the light turned green behind me, and I almost got run over by several angry japanese drivers.  On the bright side, after initially refusing me service at the drive through (the inside part was closed), the mcdonalds guy finally let me buy food when i explained to him I was driving an invisible car, so it was ok.

Oh!  Oh no!  There it is!

Nah EQ was my first.

Well you certainly have lots of time to think playing FFXI, there's all that idle time LFG, the huge amount of time spent mindlessly grinding out levels, the time making up terrible xp loss from a single death, the time spent levelling up again for the second class of the same character, the time wasted waiting for rare spawns that everyone needs to progress, the travel time, the time needed to finally login in to the game through all that square launcher crap, the time growing plants in game, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Pardon me for wanting to actually enjoy my free time instead of having a pointless virtual job¹ when I get home.

1) Pun intended.

(http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/9767/ffxiyb2.gif)

yeah, this is a wow... "I want it now site". Thats cool. As far as you sucking and getting killed a lot, well thats your problem. As far as harsh travel times? there is something called outpost warps. but the NPC who will warp you all over the map, he doesnt have a phucken gold dot over hes head. Yeah, i get it now... Oh, those are Tarus, not "men".

Hi. You're a fucking retard. There, I said it.

I should've made you wait longer for it, you seem to dig that.

Hey Grunk... that site full of douchebags you can compre e-peens with?

It's over there (http://www.fohguild.org/index.php).

Go talk to them. I'm sure they'll love you, and not be so emo about punitive game systems or the wankery that is FFXI. Now fuck off, the adults are speaking.

Paging Ironwood. This thread needs you.

This post won the internet, or at least the parts of it involving MMO's.

Heh.

There is a world of difference between solo play and solo grinding to the level cap. The former is where WoW shines. The latter is what has been technical feasible since EQ1 launched. The problem is in that difference. A game that requires you mindlessly grind to the level gap and a game that has no solo play are pretty much the same thing.

And yet the vast majority of growth in the genre has been for people who play even less.

I'm not going to dispute FFXI as a good or bad game. If an MMO is still active, it's good for enough people to be worthy of respect. But it's built on conventions that have been evolved out of both the core genre as well as the emerging browser-based one. This is because FFXI did not expand the genre in ways so signficant that others had to emulate. The genre is changing, and splitting, and the vast majority of time and money are going to capturing everyone else. You ain't getting these people with death penalties nor spawn camping.

So this Masochist goes into the club and says 'Hit Me, Hit Me, Hit Me.'  The Sadist says 'No.'

Seriously, I'm convinced this is a high level posters Gimmick account.  It's that fucking crafted.  It's like a shrine to First Post Retardery.  Not even mutilated limbs, lobe damage and being Hrose during the bad times can excuse this silliness.

Short of a skill-based system, it's job system is the best out there.  I like Mithra.  The Star Onion Brigade rocks.  FFXI is a great game until level 10.

That's my thoughts on it.

Oh, I can assure you I exist, and I sure as hell don't play FFXI any longer.

If by "it" you mean "fun" then yes, I want to have fun immediately and constantly.

If you thought this was a WoW site, even though it is only has a subforum here, why didn't you go to a FFXI fan site?  I'm sure there must be... one, maybe two of them.  The only reason I can imagine for you posting here is that deep down you are worried your shitty little grind fest is dying and you want to toot its horn in the hope that others will come and prop up its crumbling user base.  You went about this in the worst possible way, being arrogant about such a weak game and then insulting the people who play the most successful MMO in history isn't going to win you any friends or new FFXI subscribers.  Even your thread's title is telling since you omitted the last word - "strong".  You are scared.  You are scared that all the hours you wasted grinding might go poof if they pull the plug and you are desperate for new people.

(http://img.xboard.us/bbb/images/smile2/punchballs.gif)

We should probably Den this before it gets outta hand.

(http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/Fists_of_Ironwood.jpg)

I meant your OTHER cherry.

Grunk.

Don't you have to notify the rehab clinic when you start saying insane shit on the internets?

Hey guys, what's going on in here?

This thread is going places.

All the way to page 50.  Replete with charts and amusing pictures of Cosplay Sephiroths.

Miasma, that "thinking man's game" pic was priceless.

What is up with this bizarre "WoW is for lazy losers who want everything handed to them" backlash, anyway?  It's pretty weird that the idea of assigning moral righteousness to MMO choice sounds like a reasonable concept to people.


Word is still out, however, on whether or not he has an adorable little button for a nose.

That was the first screenshot I'd EVER seen of FFXI

From the responses in this thread I'm glad I didn't play it.

Praise be Grunk.

(http://www.mangakai.se/cosplay/sephiroth_dk1.jpg)

Yeah, I'm going to have to call shenanigans now too.

First off, you're wrong, you need a tank and a healer and four other toons to make a good xp group in FFXI.
You can rename the archetypes however you want, but I'm not convinced that you ever played.

Second off, you've been playing FFXI for five years? The game debuted in NA in November of 2003.
You're fluent in Japanese, or it never happened.

Entertaining trolling though :)

(http://www.spacebutler.com/images/f13-ffxi-grunk-chart.png)

Just a hint of offcial Mithra furry cosplay.

(http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/403/mithcoscf0.jpg)

I see you made a beeline toward bishi sephiroth at 21 places visited.

Interesting. Interesting indeed.

'KILL 100 LEVEL 1 RAT THINGS WITH THIS SWORD... AND THEN YOU ARE TRULY A DARK KNIGHT'

Christ. I spit on the corpse of this game. No matter how many times I try to fool myself that I had good memories of this game, I AM NEVER RIGHT.

On a side note, what kind of name is "grunk" anyway?

I was so disappointed that wasn't a rickroll...

:heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:

(http://www.clisham.com-a.googlepages.com/surprise2eg2.jpg)

   I dont know whats sadder, me bothering to post, or how fast everyone got sucked in by the FXII employee....that registered today.
Made me almost read the whole thread..almost.

Posting to keep in the gizzame.

Though, I notice since grunk was outed for being in rehab he hasn't made a peep.

Or for working AT one.

I still haven't seen proof beyond an assertion.

Yeah I thought it would be a rickroll too so I didn't click it.

Most of the information in this thread is horribly outdated. Travel times in FFXI are greatly reduced compared to how they used to be, as is levelling. Not only were XP requirements lowered, new areas were introduced that make levelling easier and a ton of things were added like XP rings (essentially a rest system), NPCs you can call to fight with you, faster healing rates and other changes to make solo play easier.

As far as requiring the perfect party, that is also no longer true. 3 years ago people played that way, nowadays not so much. Hell the other day my NPC tanked for my group for a while, quite successfully. There are at least 3 jobs that can play the role of healer (WHM, RDM, SMN), anyone subbing NIN can tank in a lot of parties as well as main NIN, PLD and even BLU. Most people who complain about LFG are simply too lazy to form their own parties.

Solo strategies are much more refined as well compared to a few years ago.

The game does have a lot of quest cockblocks but now that most people are higher level getting help on those is not a problem at all.

I could punch you in the face, daily, for 5 years and we'd both have more fun than if either of us were playing FFXI.

Much the same could be said of EQ1. The problem is looking at these games through the lens of time. It's great how long these games last, but in the face of everything that's come since, they don't have that attraction power anymore. So it's good to hear the veteran fans of FFXI have an easier time rolling alts, but I don't think that'll grab people back.

That's not to rip on the corrections made about FFXI of course.

I don't really understand that complaint. My theory has always been that MMORPGs go into retention mode from almost day 1. The power to attract people 5 years later is pretty irrelevant, but considering that populations are still high and plenty of people have left that complaint doesn't have much merit anyway as new people still seem to be joining up.

I agree that there won't be a rush of new people to FFXI, but the same is true of every game out there.

I agree retention kicks in early for most games. Seems like games could enjoy a new spike though, with expansions. But outside of Burning Crusade, this has yet to really be proven. Odd that. Old skool design perpetuated in expansions to those games, or just a lack of shiny in face of the new?

It's the death-cry of the hardcore MMO masochist epeen freak.  Once upon a time there was only EQ1, and their ilk ruled the genre.  Then WoW came along and drove a stake into their hearts by showing how much more money could be made by catering to normal people, while Vanguard (quite accidentally) buried the still-twitching corpses by showing how little enthusiasm there is out there for that bullshit.

Now all we need is for something to come along and put a stake in the heart of raiding as the primary endgame and the genre might (definitely will)  improve again.

Somebody please put "FF11 is my digital crack" in his sig!

Actually, we need to shoot down the entire concept of "end game" in the first place, by making the game fun all along the way. Just my $2.00 :)

Stephen

I don't really think those two things are opposed.  People tend to think focusing on the "endgame" means that you've got some kind of not-smelling-the-roses mentality, but I think the important characteristic of the "endgame," whether people realize it or not, is that all players who have reached it can now play together and compete together, with only (relatively) minor differences in power.  The endgame is the part of the game where you get to make friends, and play with them for as long as you choose.  The levelling part is where you just play the game in relative isolation, grouping along the way, sure, but not often with the same people (unless you've got some kind of permagroup going on).

That's a simplification, to be sure, but I think that is why people are attracted to the endgame.  It's not that they aren't able to "enjoy the ride," or that the levelling process is inherently boring.  It's just that the "endgame" is a TOTALLY different game, period.  Levelling is a multiplayer game, endgame is a social activity.  When I think of my time in WoW, there was the 1-60 experience that was similar to any other video game, and then there was the post-60 experience that was more like a sport or something.  It's two games in one, and there's nothing inherently good or bad about either.

So, basically, I don't think the existence of an endgame implies that either the levelling part or the non-levelling part are inherently boring.  They may appeal to a very different set of people, true, and it may be less than ideal for so many MMOs to cram both game types into the same game, but I don't think there's anything wrong with either game, and I think they both have a future.

No. NO! This is not a serious thread about mmogs. Please, people, have a little decorum.

Well we can derail shit threads into anything. I liked the original idea of the 50 page 'threadnaught' :) Now back to my post already in progress!


Not only did they cater to the normal people, they did pretty well on their raid grind to grab the old 'hardcore raider dudes'. Between the EQ1 hardcores and the UO Roxxor Era, its amazing we turned out as nice of a genre as we have.

Bummer we are essentially 3/4 the genre we used to be without little to no true growth over the last.....10 years?

The only big successes would be WoW and Eve. Wow is (very loosely) like old EQ , and Eve is as close to UO as we can hope for it seems. Bummer, because Eve (though having many innovative things) has meh combat that I only made it about 6 months at.

Its a shame, and I really do hope dev houses realize they need not make the giant slayer, just a good game and we will be there. Or even....dare I say...something different!

Shit, sorry.

Um... cock, balls.  Ass.

There.

We've tried. But people get to the max-level and go, "Now what?", regardless of how much fun the journey has been.

CoH/V tried to minimise the endgame and make it "the journey, not the destination" (and so no-one else has to: COH/V TOO GRINDY POST LVL 30 BLAH BLAH - thanks, we know) but players want something to do with thelr max level characters. So I10 is going to be introducing a repeatable endgame raid to satisfy those who have this complaint.

I take the view that there is no such thing as an endgame, just the point where you stop playing the game.

Well, I'm convinced.


Out of all the MMOs coming out this year, you picked one well recognised failure and one pseudo-mainstream MMO to comment on. What, you couldn't stretch out some badly phrased thoughts about AoC, Gods and Heroes or POTBS?

And, with any luck, there won't be another FFXI, because hopefully the industry will have learned from their mistakes.

(http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/4840/bffjillbk7.jpg)

That is all, continue.

Hey, this thread is like a shrine to ME.  We have a summoning of me, a Magic Card of me, Slayerik posting with ME in his sig and finally Endie would have appeared to have kept the Surprise Cockfags poster I made ages ago.

If it continues to be all about me, I'll end up being the new Bruce and be deep inside a vole before you know it.

Incidentally, that chart with the 'beeline' ?  Fucking Awesome.

1) That was Oban

2) I actually do have a copy of that saved.  I just came late to this party.

I must say that I am disappointed that Grunk hasn't managed to inspire the lynching yet that looked so imminent on page one.  I had hoped for another guerilla-marketing dude.

He gave up way too easy.  I suspect due to the fact that it was Med Time.

Also, I'd like to point out how long ADOM and Nethack and so forth have been going with an extreme hardcore following.

My Point ?  Just as useless as the original one.

I really regret not noticing this thread until now.

I can't tell the difference between retards and viral marketers at this point. Maybe he needed something to do while waiting for a group to go kill crabs.

He is, presumably, at his 40+ hours a week job.

If that was viral marketing, someone needs to have their contract reviewed.


Veteran MMO players have an expectation for the endgame, based on experience. It's either PvP, Raiding, or something to do with commerce/politics in owned structures. That's pretty much all we've ever gotten from the games with the relatively big numbers.

The "fun along the way" thing has evolved over the decade. No game has launched claiming to be a suckfest from 1 to cap. Every game has tried to make combat and questing fun along the way. I still remember the collective "cool" felt about the mission system in AO (before launch, of course), the Tasks and Combat Styles in DAoC, the twitchy feel of CoX and PS.

Most recently we've seen (in WoW and EQ2) the ability to have soloable quests throughout the levels. Mechanically, this is just grinding with text blocks, but it feels very different because the models are different, the objectives different, and so no. It's like playing a match-3 casual game without a story-arc (Bejeweled) and one that has one (Puzzle Quest). One isn't better than the other per se, but the compulsion to continually advance is stronger in the latter. Meanwhile, the core game experience is more similar than not. As fun as WoW is, if you solo the levels you're doing largely the same thing over and over. But it's in the context of short, mid- and long-term goals, so isn't felt as deeply as kiting Giants in Great Divide for 10 levels.

But the question remains: what happens at the cap? People won't rush there if they don't like what they hear about it from the people who do.

I thought it was Oban having a laugh?

Edit: I take that back. He just poopied on the LoTR thread.

thank god, there is one other person that has a phucken clue on this board?

YOU PEOPLE FAIL.

I'm glad Margalis won.  Everyone was picking on him in that politics thread and I felt bad for him.  I think it's wonderful he won this thread. 

VIVA MARGALIS!

I'm glad grunk came back, too.  You rule, grunk.  Really.

No, seriously, you do.  You are a spunky monkey.

successes? EvE? um last i checked FFXI had at one point over 500k subs, and is well over 300k subs right now. Get your numbers straight.
EH mistake? a game with over 300k subs? thats a mistake? how , do tell me. How on earth did Square make a mistake. The only mistake, is that you people need the gold dot. you people need a quest log. you people need to be taken by the hand, and be told
"HAI GUYZ! HEY MORON! CLICK THE GUY WITH THE GOLD DOT!!!! DING!"

You bothering to post imo. I don't see anyone being sucked in by anything.

Signe, don't eat grunk's brain. It's not right.

I never said monetary successes. I'm talking genre successes. If I did, I could call lineage or FFXI successes but I'm not a flaming douchebag and I really dont care about subs in Asia.

Ah yes, the rallying cry of those without a real argument when defending their game of choice.

Dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude.

Answer my question.

Fair Warning, mate;  I think Coleridge's drugs are wearing off.

I was going to explain that he doesn't have to use "phucken" since we don't have a profanity filter but I think WUA's post in the LotRO thread should fully demonstrate the fact.

If we are going by sub numbers, FFXI kneels coyly before WoW. And Britney Spears is the BEST SINGA EVAH.

I do say, good suhs, that simply by looking at this young chaps first post and thread title that you should know better than to even pretend to be rational with him or try to hold a conversation.

And dear god, don't try to make a point. He might have rabies.

It demonstrates what sort of soft pussy boards he's used to when he types "phucken" by default.  Profanity filters my ass.


I think you should insta-ban anyone who puts their character name and level in their sig.  That would be a fun rule.

Comeonnnnnn next page...





 * Edit: OH BOOYAH!

Or people who quote themselves in their sigs.

Then what would be the penalty for putting your entire character history in your sig?  Assassination?

I think it should be a special, extra-painful assassination if your sig-chronicle includes something like:

...
WoW: Stealthkilla 48 Rogue (Did not like much)
...

Oh, and you also get extra penalty points if one of your characters listed is for a game that doesn't exist yet.

Man, I kinda miss the old VG boards.

CoX is superior to FFXI in gameplay in every way I can think of.  FFXI has CoX 'beat' in Mithra pr0n, though.  That's not necessarily a good thing.

I'll always fondly remember FFXI Squares attempt to prove how little they can learn from their mistakes, as that one game which tried to make non-japanese speaking folks play a game which could potentially require heavy knowledge of the japanese language in a group "only if we like you" or die scenario.

 :dead_horse:

CoH/V is surprisingly pr0n-free. Either that or I don't look at the right speciality sites.

(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/5546/castlevaniasotnxl5.gif)

oh and I'll throw CoX in there as a genre success.

I'd like to point out that the woman in the background is either laugh at him, or is hiding her face out of shame from being in the same room with him. That is the fate of all cosplayers.

That's not really a fair comparison.  FFXI didn't have the IP or marketing power of Warcraft.

I wounder, how many of you are actually Larpers? Go ahead and sign (fegs)

Can we keep em, Schild?!?!?! Please please please!!!

Oh holy fuck. OK I'll admit to Margalis I left that game and didn't look back, and that a lot of improvements may have slipped in after I quit. Based on your barely-coherent comments, however, I can see that the easter-egg hunt for quests is still there.

Let me tell you, there is nothing more fun than having to spend an hour on allakhazam trying to pin down the quests and locations for the dozens of NPCs that look completely identical to the HUNDREDS in windhurst. I still have pages and pages of notebook paper that I had to write down the quest giver and location, and then tab back in and spend 30m going around and talking to all of the NPCs in town that gave quests within my level range. That didn't give any XP.

Oh that's the other thing, I had to install a fucking 3rd party program so I could TAB OUT of this piece of shit with F10 -- they later disabled it, right around the time I quit. I won't be locked into a game; you can suck my balls.

Maybe that is fun for people like you. It's like virtual slot machines, if you get lucky, you you hit the NPC quest jackpot.

Do I have to spell out how ridiculous and ass-backwards this is? You are touting this as a feature? are you serious?

HAY GUYZ WHATS GONG ON N DIS THREAD??

Pain apparently.

As far as I can determine, Grunk believes that Migraines are fun and that Paracetamol is for Pussies.

It's hardcore, yo.

Yeah, and I'll bet in the real world you expect people to approach YOU when they need something done.  Loser.  Everyone knows a real hero goes around and talks to every single occupant of a town to find out if any of them need anything done whatsoever.  Only an idiot lazy american poopie-pants would think it's reasonable that, when an NPC needs a task done, they flag the hero down in some way.  Pshh, kids these days.

Anyway, gotta go, I'm late for my vampire clan meeting and have to get in costume.

I wounder too.

What the fuck does fegs mean ?

I'm gonna "wounder" you if you don't answer my goddamn question.

Did you notify the rehab clinic when you started posting on this board from an internal machine?

The phucken fegs live in Phuket.

You handfuck, cockgobbling, cuntflaps should be more fucking considerate of other jackshit fuckwads who don't appreciate that there are some shitsuckers out there who don't fucking want to see inconsiderate lables such as 'fags' typed out on their goddamn motherfucking forums. Have some fucking consideration you limp dick motherfuckers. If you keep insisting on labeling each other as fags, make sure you use the more sensitive fucking term of 'feg' so no ones feelings get REALLY hurt.

That's just Darniaq.  I don't think he CAN be mean.  I can't recall ever seeing him 'lose it' anywhere, ever.

Guys like that are creepy. Beware the Darniaq, my son.  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch.

Hey! I'm insulted! I'm not a feg I'm a dyke.

I've seen Darniaq flip out once or twice before.

When he drops the f-bomb, it's really a, "Wow, DQ dropped the f-bomb" kind of thing.

HAY GUY, WHEN YOU BUY AN OFFLINE GAME DO YOU BUY THE STRAT GUIDE WITH IT? GUY? ARE YOU THAT LAZY AND RETARDED THAT YOU CANT ACTUALLY READ... HAY GUY, I NEVER USED ONLINE HELP GUIDES AND WHEN I DID, IT TOOK ME NO MORE THEN 15 MINS TO FIND WHERE I WAS STUCK AT? HEY GUY, YOU KNOW THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED WINDOWER? HAY GUY, YOU FAIL... OF COURSE WE KNOW THAT... BECAUSE WHY ELSE WOULD YOU BE PLAYING THE FISHER PRICE MMO KNOWN AS WOW... OK GUY?

I think you mean 'Diek'. Please follow the new F13 standard.

CAPS.  HE'S WON.  WATCH OUT ANAKIN, HE HAS THE HIGH GROUND !!!

 :|

Fuck me, can we stop this already ?

Gimme Mod Powers.  Go on, Gizzit.

I'm sorry.  (http://terranuts.com/forums/images/smilies/sad3.gif)

Mods can't ban.  :|  But, why den? This is highly amusing.  Someone's been hiding their meds I think.

So much for that cruise control for awesome thing.

All caps, consitant use of ellipses in place of punctuation or paragraph markers, irregular use of punctuation in general -- he's just multilple exclamation points from frothing insanity.

Defintely an upgrade over the standard industry shill. This one actually comes across as a semi-retarded monkey offspring of a poopsock gamer.

Ok.

Maybe Avatard hasn't been clear.

He's posting from a rehab clinic.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't work there.

Does that clear things up?

He's going to be back on the smack by page 6. 

A rehab clinic.

Addiction to getting assfucked? 

Perhaps that's the reason for 'feg' and 'phucking' he think that'll avoid thier "BAN THIS SITE" filters.   Too bad the rest of us love our fucking curses so god damned much.

It is the truth. Some how, the magic all got lost. Due to the, "i want it now, and make it easy" group. You people are funny, you actually think that because you dont think, that you have actually evolved. That WoW is some how moving the genre ahead, your dead wrong.

You sit there, and say that games like EQ and FFXI sucked because they had a grind. When in fact, in WoW your grinding all the time, with your fetch quests. You people have no idea, no concept in regards to Mob mechanics and behavior. You sit there, and wait months for people to complete content to only read about it and then get on your vent servers and hand out instructions as if you were a special ed teacher.

You have no idea, the importance of community and immersion. You are the generation that battle net has spawned upon us, the ones who actually give a shit. Congratz, indeed you all win.

I think i might post again in this thread.


 * Edit: oh, tee-ee   :thumbs_up:

(http://www.f13.net/media/grief/long_vacation01.jpg)

Please Goddess stop, my coworkers are wondering why I'm giggling in my cubicle.

It's like all he can see of the WHOLE DAMN SITE and it's 5+ year history is this thread, the LotR thread and that there's a WoW subforum.  Or maybe the drugs just fried his short-tem memory that bad, so he can't read the rest.

Either way it's funny watching someone come in and yell, "You don't get it!!" at the top of his lungs while simultaneously ignoring everything.

I may enjoy a kiddie, give-it-to-me-now game like fisher price WoW, but when it comes to crazy posters, I really like them to have some depth.  And this one delivers.  Grunk, you are like an onion, with layer upon layer of flavor.  It started out simple enough, more a non-sequiter than anything that crazy, then came the subtle WoW jabs, then the not-so-subtle jabs, and now... the explosive insanity in the form of an all-caps post.

He's just a poser.  If he were really hardcore he'd be playing Vanguard!

   1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
   2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
   3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
   4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
   5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
   6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
   7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
   8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
   9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
  10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
  11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His Will for us and the power to carry that out.
  12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

I like Grunk very much and I hope he stays.  I don't want him to go.  I'll do everything in my power to keep him here.  (http://img.xboard.us/bbb/images/smile2/flashbooby.gif)

Where do you get those things?!

I was really hoping G was Lindsay Lohan, but she was in Jail this morning, not rehab.

You guys suck and should all rot in hell.

Engelsbengles, 70th Arch Mage, House Griffindor.

They come naturally to about half the population.  The other half has to work a bit harder for them.  :wink:

What I would dearly love to know is, what the Hell did he type into google to end up here?

I knew those JRPG reviews on the frontpage would come back to haunt us.

Well, I see I'm late for the lynching, but what the hell.

I LIVE ABOVE WATER, I SEE NO FISH.
THEREFORE, HADDOCK DO NOT EXIST.


Idiot.

 lost his meds

found his meds!

this moment brought to you by the letters S, T, and FU.

I LIKE SHINY THINGS

(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m20/r3dknight/Snap145.jpg)

(http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/9653/kawjchighfiveno9.th.jpg) (http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kawjchighfiveno9.jpg)

The fact that this thread lives gives me faith that the Rapture is near.

And Jesus is gonna kick all of our asses.

Yeeees. I can feel the hatred swelling within you now. Take your keyboard, strike me down with all of your nerd fury and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!

I some how found this site, a link from mmorpg.com ... the sigil interviews are ... interesting (lol).
I figured maybe this board had some serious gamers (and i mean gamers, put away your dice you hump!) on it... big mistake on my part

Yeah, it is full of fegs.

I am gay.

I am 12. And responding to myself.

For all you guys walkin around in your trash gear, on your trash toons. if you wana know what "uber" actually looks like
Here j00 g0

(http://vanguard.tentonhammer.com/files/gallery/albums/article-illustrations/titan_grunk.jpg)

Oh god...you came from mmorpg.com?

As for serious gamers -- I take it you mean the sort of people that pay to have their dick stuck in a grinder? If I'm going to pay for pain, I'll go to the pros (http://mistressmatisse.blogspot.com/), thanks.

 :-o

We PnP/board gamers are the OGs, yo. Your shiny computermachine would never have produced Final Fantasy if it hadn't been for H.G. Wells.

Roots.

Giant sig pic.

Check.

Whoa, wait, hang on.

LOOK AT THE PICTURE.

THERE IS A TARU BY HIS TAIL. HE HAS A TARU MANSLAVE.

Google::

I would say I am looking forward to guild created content, the type of content that I have only seen in a game like EvE online.  - Robert (aka Grunk)

Actually, I think he wrings the taru out over a bucket and uses that excess Taru-Juice to shine his armor.

I'll do you one better:

http://www.freewebs.com/grunk1/bio.html

HAY!!!111

His only level 64!

Can someone modly please retitle this thread to "5 pages and still going".

 :rimshot:

This thread is a pile of awesome.  I'm still trying to determine if grunk is a troll or on meth.

I hadn't realized until now just how much everyone has caught teh ghey.

Thats a really old webiste lol.

Awesome.  I thought it might die a couple of pages ago but...

(http://plausibletech.com/delivers.jpg)

PS For the sake of the server stability some of you are going to have to spread out to other threads until we reinforce this node.

Do I need a special world pass thingy to play with you guys on this server?!?

Preach on, brotha!

Man, google picks up a lot of you.

nah, no more world pass. you can actually choose w/e server you wana play on (lol, i dont work for SE, im just a strung out NSE)

We know.

And so do your doctors.


That's because he's a BanEater. He goes around to any website he hasn't been to, and acts his age until he gets banned. Surely he's always shocked when it happens. Either that or he goes to whatever website isn't blocked by the firewall at the halfway house.

My meeting got cancelled, and it gave me enougn time to read this entire thread.  Thank you, cancelled meeting, and thank you grunk.

EEK!  I just exposed my smiley boobies to a 12 year old.  I'm going to jail, aren't I?  PANIC!  (http://www.terranuts.com/forums/images/smilies/panic.gif)

Could I get a grief title of "Grunk Worshipper" ? ;)

and you know this how? I have not been banned from any website. In fact, if you were not a mod, one could say you would be banned for making up such bs.

Graphs to follow.  All three pages looked like this.  Note that a lot of these people aren't contributing jack.

(http://endie.net/images/blog/misc/fiveyears.jpg)

PS BBQ reference requested and received by Grunk.

Some of us spend almost as much time on the Intertron as you do sucking dick for coke.

Coke might be a tad bit too high class. I'm thinking more along the lines of some lysol and a paper bag.

This has inspired me to produce "art". I'm soooo sorry.

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/4046/fail03xf2.png

 :cry:

Awesome.

Also, Bob Saget.

I bet other people in rehab make fun of him for being in there for huffing. Most asked question during group: "What's your favorite color of paint?" Likely Nickname Amongst The Other Kids: Dutch Boy.

You know what must be done.

...

:vv:

EDIT: Man, his shit list on his website is awesome.


I stopped reading there.

As great as it is to make fun of him and his extremely backward views, a part of me wants to take him outside and beat the stupid out of him.

He'd be dead long before the stupid could be fully exorcised.

I stayed at work until 5:06 reading the last two pages. Damn you GRUUUNK!!! You so uber me jealous~!@

About FFXI being an "hardcore" stereotype you are mostly right. This is a quote from the most recent interview with the producer. These words may sound familiar:


That said they are FINALLY adding official windowed mode to the game.

And I disagree that FFXI lacks attraction power. I'm pretty sure that with some simple but aggressive changes the game would draw some relevant attention:

- windowed mode
- skip Playonline to get in the game
- a billing system that makes sense
- no deleting accounts after 3 months off

- Revamped quest system
- "Permeable" level system (meaning you can delevel your character)
- More forgiving group composition
- Consistent nerf of major quest/missions cockblocks
- Faster travel, especially across the world and especially for low levels

In particular FFXI party system is punishing because you get MAJOR penalties to XP if you group with a player just a few levels above. Considering that FFXI MAIN problem is the downtime due to LFG issues, I think that a mentor/delevel system along with a more forgiving group composition would have some major, positive impact on the game.

That said, FFXI is super grindy but it also has tons of quality content that is top-notch. The game is huge and with cool stuff. It has the potential to be loved if only it let players enjoy it.

It's not like in other games where the grind is there to hide the fact that there's no content or that the content is poor. FFXI is one of the best, if not the very best online worlds. It's just crippled to unplayable levels by bad design choices that would also be quite easy to revert. If only they had a clue and there wasn't the language barrier between us and them.

Holy fuck, just when I thought this thread was losing steam and potential, along comes HRose.

Reading this thread is like having your naughty bits touched by a boxcar full of hobos.

In a bad way.

Yep, if only we knew at the start that all that stands between FFXI and WoW is a billing system upgrade and windowed mode, gosh darn it, we'd be on level^H^H^H^H^H page 20 by now.

Fixed.

I feel like a fish biting on a lure just by replying, but oh well. The vast majority of my gametime in WoW has been about two hours or less a night, more on weekends.

FFXI was my first MMO. I really liked it for a while. I still think it has fantastic art design and a wonderful world that was a lot of fun to explore. But simply, forced grouping eventually just broke the experience for me. When I realized I was logging on and waiting 1-2 hours before I actually could play the game ... the amount of my time the game wasted was just not worth it. Being married with two kids, this game style just doesn't work, it is too much of a timesink.

Oh man this is the best troll thread ever. Thanks for making my day, grunk.


!

That comic is like a bizarro epic fail guy comic.

(http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/6861/epicfailguyruinne1.gif)

There can be a bad way? grunk had me convinced otherwise.

What can I say about F13?  It's really my favorite website in the entire universe!  I love the irreverent banter and sly wit these keyboard jockeys produce.  And I especially love the staff, they're AWESOME.

 :heart:

Remember, remember the 23rd of July doesn't have the same ring to it.

My god, this thread is all kinds of messed up mixed with awesome.

We really need a samprimary comic for this one to make it complete.

E for Epic Fail?

My gf is really hot and she totally digs me. Her only problem is that every so often she kicks me as hard as she can in the ballsack with stiletto heels for no reason. If only she wouldn't do that our relationship would be perfect.

I suppose it could be worse, she could be stomping on them.

Some people pay for that, you know.

I am sure everyone's pal grunk probably does.

Hot damn!  Will they be adding the ability to click on things with a mouse soon?  Like menus or something?  Or did they already add that feature?  Since I'm a WoW feg I can only play games where the avatar can be controlled via stabbing buttons randomly with my penis and thus this is a must have feature for me.

Oh shit, that was you in those videos Montague? Sorry man. We laughed at you back in 1997.

At least he wasn't in ep_sample or anything of that sort.

I miss myself and geldon talking Vanguard up. We also won the tag-team belt of forum polluting on that one.
Wondeur (!) where was grunk. We could have gotten a second season deal with the help of his entertaining talent.

Falc, if you didn't bring it up every 5 days we might forget about it. Not a chance in hell.

Shit. Now you've said that, I suddenly feel happier Geldon is back, at least in spirit. Or something like that.

He's not really Geldon in spirit, though. Geldon didn't go around saying "Emo much?" all the time.

And he wouldn't have pimped FFXI as the ubar in gaming either.

Different game Same motivation :)
Some hilarity.
Epic.  :hello_kitty:
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m20/r3dknight/homo.jpg)

He would have if it hadn't hit retail yet.

Patiently awaiting grunks final post of "i told u i was hardcore", shortly before his huffing and 32 hour marathon FFXI session induced death.

If he can make it from level 64 to 65 in 32 hours, I will be duly impressed. 

I was going to play WoW for an hour before going to bed - but instead I read this thread  8-)

I don't want you to forget. I love scars.

My problem with FF11 hinged heavily on its shit-tastic UI; it was painfully obvious that they'd cut 'n pasted the console control scheme and not bothered with even a moment's thought about how to take advantage of a keyboard and mouse.  I liked the job system (though I'd like it better if they just used materia, or FF6's hybrid scheme where a class's core mechanics were set but the magic they could cast was based on equipping materia).  I liked the setting okay (though I'd like it better if it was Ivalice, or FF7's Gaia).  Really, FF11 fell either into 'Eh, that's okay I guess' or 'Holy shit, what made them think this possibly wouldn't suck?'  The only things from FF11 that got unreserved approval from me were the Mithras.  (And even then, the Viera were much better as the token Japanese animal chicks.)

I'd just like to take a moment, entirely venom and sarcasm free, to point out how much Hrose's English has actually improved.

That's all.

Yep, his improved english makes knowing when he's emotional really easy. The moment he gets really into something instead of just repeating the same MMORPG shit over and over, he forgets to conjugate. It's even funnier now.

 :rimshot:


Also, this thread is the greatest thing I've read today. Well worth the 20 minutes of my time for the laughter and the tears, the emotional rollercoaster.



Watch out, here he comes.. watch out boy, he'll chew you up. Whoh-ah here he comes..

Here's the thing, champ.  I'm not going to try and convince you that getting your dick hit with a hammer isn't fun.  It's clear that you think it is, that's your damage, whatever.  But the thing you need to understand is that all that grindy stupid "magic" you loved so much?  That's over, and it's never coming back.  (Except in Korea, I guess.)  The "WoW newbs" and their "easy-mode gameplay" have won, totally and triumphantly.

You need to quit pissing and moaning and just fucking kill yourself already.  I don't imagine they give you razors or anything to hang yourself with in the rehab clinic, so just find a convenient wall and headbutt it until you die.  Because you can scream and shit yourself while we laugh at you, but if we really had any part in killing off the bullshit you're so fond of, then we're glad of it.

You make me happy for having played WoW, even though I didn't like it enough to stick with it.

grunk you are my hero  :inluv:

So Slayerk, tell me, how do you feel about the way they handled PVP in UO?

You could have at least posted a chart.

Nah, he can always go over and run through all those Korean games coming out.

Ahaha, that made me laugh out loud.

Hey, I at least pretend like you guys might forget my rabid old school UO lust. Actually, no I don't. I wear it like a fuckin' badge. Bronzed, stickied Den Thread and all. It's all part of my legacy.

Grunk wears a badge too. A big shiny plastic one pinned to his diaper that says "BESTEST MITHRA HUMPER EVAR!"

No, it says "PATIENT".

It's not like he can read it through liquid paper fumes anyway.

Everyone knows that a serious huffer uses wood pledge and/or paint.

Liquid paper is soooooooo 1983.

Wood Pledge?  I can get high dusting my coffee table?  Really?

Based on what our can of wood pledge says on it about not huffing the contents, I'm guessing that you can, yes.

Really, it's not hardc0re huffin9 until you smoke cigarettes while huffing gas.  Then you're hardc0re AND punk as fuck.

ETA -- Actually, it probably won't work for you because I don't think zombies can get high via huffing. It *might* work if you were to eat the brain of a huffer like grunk shortly after he had huffed.

Praise be Grunk.

Does Not Compute...Does Not Compute...

I am pretty sure the OP is banned by now, but if not can we please keep him ?  :inluv:

That made me laugh out loud. I still have tears in my eyes.You guys got "spawned by  Battle-Net" ? Get of my motherfucking lawn youngsters.

:-D

Oh, btw I still have two pages to read. Keep it coming.

edit: Spellcheck4tw.

edit edit: Welcome to page 8 bitches.

Why is it bad we "give a shit" about the games we play?

So I do a google search on Grunk just to see whats out there, and I get this (http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.legalreader.com/archives/images/grunk.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.legalreader.com/archives/003422.html&h=162&w=115&sz=17&hl=en&start=7&sig2=zlLaCW2ru3Lkpu16gLUHPw&tbnid=2H7mGfPgc1C91M:&tbnh=98&tbnw=70&ei=Y9enRqCeCYHugQPR5OTwBw&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgrunk%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den)..

Awesome.

After reading up on that article, I got this. Please be warned, my bullshit meter went haywire.

http://www.dailyraider.com/index.php?id=9016

I was always under the impression FFXI might be somewhat tolerable if I could control 6 characters at once with a single computer and keyboard, and have commands for them.

And if I could pay some writers from Bioware to come up with some dialog for my characters to say.

But then I figured I could just play Baldurs gate again, with completely random characters and not even be aware of what my stats and levels were the entire time. And be provided with a difficult yet fun gameplay experience.

Also, charts.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3451/coincidenceithinknotlg0.png

(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3451/coincidenceithinknotlg0.png)

You must post it as an image because everyone will think it's a trap and ignore it!

I propose this thread be right under the Trammel thread for there is much laughter to be had in the rereading of this thread.

I didn't know if the image would stretch the topic or not.

I'm new at this.   :oops:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=grunk

Highlights include:

1.     grunk     
   10 up, 3 down    
   

A contraction of the adjectives "gay" and "drunk". A condition resulting from an abnormally large intake of alcohol; where an otherwise heterosexual male exhibits overtly homosexual behavior.

"Andy was totally grunk last night. He kept grabbing my ass and rubbing against me on the dance floor."



3.     grunk     
   2 up, 2 down    
   

1.A stain that can't be identified in one's shower or toilet.
2. A large messy fudge dragon left in a clogged john.

1. "Jesus! What's that funky green grunk around the tub drain?"

2. "Damn, I just left the nastiest grunk in your porcelain thrown."

Perhaps that's what led to rehab?

Nice try, Signe, to throw us off the trail, but I have connected the dots!

First, we have CmdrSlack's fine observation.


Next we have the revelation!


Is Signe the disinterred maiden!?!? I think so!

He is, therefore, responsible for Signe making it out of her grave to stalk the land in search of brains.

Your post was nice, it just needed the :vv: at the end to be complete.

Mornington Crescent!

(I solo'd to here by killing pets)

I'm sorry I haven't a clue.

Must be an FFXI joke. Where is the great Grunk when you need em?

lol u even changed ur avatar to aggro him.  :-D

It all comes full circle.  This thread is like an excellent novel.

Seriously, this may be the most enjoyable instance of human destruction I've ever witnessed.  And I've explored many, many of the tubes of this Intertron.

Hang on, hang on, I thought Finagle's Hunter Disco only worked in _even_ months.

...oh, I see now. You clever, clever bastard. You _knew_ I'd set you up with Tigole's Series of Rare Drop Tubes because the _obvious_ follow-through, that being Finagle's, wasn't going to do you any good, but from that early second move to Cross-Country Murloc you've been working the Seamless Patchwerk Train!

Teach me to pay too much attention to developing my QQ Defense Declined in the early game.

Ah well, another game, same time next week?

Whose line is it anyway?

I don't care how hardcore you are, you can't fuck with a WOOLLY RHINO.

I would like to take this opportunity to declare that Signe is a lovely girl and not a zombie. Plus, the joke is so two weeks ago. I demand, on her behalf, that the zombie jokes cease and desist and that we hereafter only joke about her as a lovely fairy princess all aglitter and smelling of heliotrope.

NOT GREEN TEXT!!

Should we return to foot references instead? I totally missed the start of the zombie thing anyways. I think Grunk had distracted me.

Yes. And certainly. Provided we can find somebody to Grunk for us.

Is that roflcopter gas?

(http://www.terranuts.com/forums/images/smilies/smitten.gif)

You're missing the real subtlety of his move: because he'd crossed your Deeprun Tram [Stormwind] he held you in Samophlange for most of the second round.  That means he pretty much had the liberty of circling to Dizzywig at any point he wished.  All very impressive, but not original: Lafferty used the same Barrens Defence in the '05 East Grinstead eliminating rounds.

Lesson learned, I suppose: remember he's very, very vulnerable to a straight move to Boltbucket as soon as you're in poon.  Play aggressively for that and you'll probably end up with all four terminals.

gg next map

to sortof quote Lewis Black... this entire series of posts made my brain come to a screeching halt.

Oh let the sun beat down upon my face, stars to fill my dream.  I am a traveler of both time and space, to be where I have been

Or maybe you are a zombie too and are trying to trickses uss!

 :-P

CODE RED CODE RED

VL HAS BEEN COMPROMISED
I REPEAT VL HAS BEEN COMPROMISED

GO TO PLAN ROMERO STAT

Well, duh, since everything from 1950s sci-fi/horror is true, we have to operate under the assumption that VL is a voodoo zombie mistress or whatever. (Cause, you know voodoo == zombies.)

Clearly, she's just trying to cover up her nefarious plans in the hopes that we don't notice the zombie-heliotrope smell.

I can't begin to understand why my perforated cantaloupe won't cease its whimsical dance of flagrant ingenuity. This is a beast of an aggregate fruit that only Ulysses S. Grant could control with temporal ablution.

(http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/6756/ulyssescanthv6.jpg)
Edit: Image added for effect.

Heliotropism is the diurnal motion of plant parts (flowers or leaves) in response to the direction of the sun.

So not a zombie. A vehhhhhmpire.

(http://img17.photobucket.com/albums/v51/pogmo/exploding_head.jpg)

What do you call that story?

The Aristocrackers.

Ahh..I've become so used to her nick that I forget it says VOODOO. So Signe must be VL's zombie slave? Poor Signe.

There MUST be a way to exploit that... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T8PWUgrVeA&mode=related&search=)

NSFW!
(or for anyone, really)

That article is full of redundancies.

(http://iria.chem.uh.edu/smiley/sad_red_panda.gif)

I see you're one of them.

I'm sorry to hear that.

If you find the sudden compulsion to post threads about 'Magic Go!! Fairy Ninja Master Online', please call me.

I may be able to help.

Until then...

:vv:

May my MSPaint smilie guide you true.

This is cause for concern, I'll send Wayabvpar to reconnoiter. My guess is Signe used those Zombie computers I keep hearing about to hack VDL's account.

Sadly, I have to agree (except the fairy princess stuff).  The Signe = zombie stuff has been recycled frequently enough now that it's reached  a level of repetitiveness typically reserved for Chuck Norris jokes.  Please find new ways to make fun of Signe.

She'll always be Feet to me.

One of the areas of FFXI that I have been enjoying of late is the tank archetype. Every mmo out there, their tanking mechanics are exactly the same, same old sht, blood tanking. In FFXI you can play that role (paladin) or you can try out the Ninja class. W/o question, the Ninja class is unique and amazing in every way. Instead of having the most sta or agi, or having most HP or def the ninja tanks by actually… not tanking. Instead you use two blink spells to avoid taking damage, you have to actually time these spells. Using other ninja tools to actually debuff the mobs and even nukes.

The Ninja is of one class in FFXI, that there is nothing even close to it in other games. It’s one of many examples of SE and how they made this game unique.

(http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/108/rehabisforvh8.jpg)

Ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

I see you reading this thread Schild.  :-D :-D :-D

I've been playing around with vegetables lately. I like asparagus. Its a very pretty green color, has a unique flavour, and on top of that - it makes my pee smell funny. Broccoli also gets a bad rap. While I prefer the firmness of cauliflower, broccoli is quite tasty in its own right. And zombie ninja pirates rule.

Testimonial:

Ninjas can kill anyone they want!  Ninjas cut off heads ALL the time and don't even think twice about it.  These guys are so crazy and awesome that they flip out ALL the time.  I heard that there was this ninja who was eating at a diner.  And when some dude dropped a spoon the ninja killed the whole town.  My friend Mark said that he saw a ninja totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window.

And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power (http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know, that's the thing about internet MEME's. They are like a train with no brakes. Signe is a zombie. Just deal with it.

I have never heard of a video game which had ninjas in it before, that is a truly revolutionary and fresh addition to gaming.  It is by no means a tired cliche.

To be fair, FFXI does have some very cool classes and the whole subjob thing makes it even more interesting. I'm just not hard-core enough after playing WoW to ever deal with that kind of grind again though.

If Square ever put up some new servers with Experience * 10 I'd resubscribe in a heartbeat.

What? You mean like a rogue evade-tanking in an emergency, like Razuvious (http://www.wowwiki.com/Instructor_Razuvious) in Naxx? How about Super Reflexes in CoH, or +Def stat in general? Nope, the idea of tanking by avoiding damage completely instead of soaking it is completely unique and has never been done before in any game, ever.

Stop addressing grunk until he addresses the original rehab question. Thanks.

I didn't realize there was a rehab question. Unless you mean the "Was it black tar or Pledge" that landed him in rehab question.

Vanguard had some pretty interesting classes as well.  That's not enough to make a game worth playing. 

Somone had better offer Grunk the choice between the Blue pill or the Red pill   :-)

He's in rehab. You KNOW he already swallowed both those bitches and went on a 3-week FFXI mithra humping bender.

And just when I thought Grunk's career here was cut short by the business end of the ban stick, he is back to fuel the flames.

Praise be Grunk.

I feel very close to Grunk.   :heart:

In honor of grunk, and to show my adherence to the Way of Grunk, I just snorted a packet of mothballs and ran my dick through a sausage grinder.

Thus is the way of the 'hardcore'.

No i mean a tank, actually having to time shadows in order to evade attacks. this being hes only way of tanking or else he is dead. This is in now way even close to what you claim.

I responded to flame bait, i did not flame anyone here.

Nah "I'm clean... you know what i mean?"

Just because Drano is legal to own, it doesn't mean you are clean when you huff it.

Uh. It's called flame bait because you are baited to flame someone. Thanks. Also, we don't get what "I'm clean you know what I mean?" means because your English makes my eyes fill with blood until I lose the ability to see.

On another note, please don't leave these forums. We need hilarity in every thread. There could not ever be as much win without you.

Not since AW's chart-filled awesome got denned. I haven't had that much fun since Usenet.

I believe he's quoting Depeche Mode.  I hear Martin Gore plays a l33t tanking Ninja.

My god. Perhaps that is the suppressed angst I heard in their songs for so long! A horrible grindfest in lyrical form!.

OK, I might be inserting some more outdated information here, but aren't FFXI ninja's really expensive to use as tanks? Don't all of those powders drain out the gil pretty quick?

Or is there just so much gil in the economy now that people just swim in it.
Or maybe those ninja tanking moves don't have material reqs anymore?

Just curious. People did used to ninja-tank back when I was playing, but it was infrequent due to the cost.
PAL and WAR didn't have to burn any mats.

Maybe for MMOs you think?  This thread is about someone in FFXI who has a level 75 character after all...  it obviously runs his life.

It would be really funny if grunk turns out to be Ben Affleck during another stint in Promises.

You being around brings the Praise of Grunk. It just so happens the Way of Grunk involves submitting yourself to flames, rehab, ninjas, and enduring horrible grindfests.

Stop bad-mouthing ninjas! They are the epitome of awesome! They were cool back when pirates were lame!

From troll -> flamewar -> draino rehab -> double blink ninja's in 10 pages.  That's a good start. 

Poopsocking llamas vs Pirates for page 11.

Some even fought samurais during the Civil War with Tom Cruise.

There were even some in the closet with Tom Cruise!


They go back that far, it's true.

Grunk what level is your ninja now?  Can you post some pics?

He's out grinding forum-love. Leave him alone. He'll return when he's ready for more sexy time.


 :-)

Can someone with an FFXI account please log in and see if Grunk is still working over forty hours a week cracking crabs?

kthx

I wasn't aware asking him if he was in rehab was trolling or flamebait.

Because, like, I had reason.

1. He's obviously goddamn psychotic.
2. His IP address.

So. Uh. Yea.

Ninjas and rangers were the 'if you have money to burn, I can make you better than your counterparts' classes. Fortunately, I had money to burn so I outfitted my party with the best. Rangers and ninjas also made spell chains a lot more powerful.

Grunk: oh, you're saying that having to time abilities in order to avoid damage and successfully tank is unique. Right. You mean like Shield Block (http://www.wowwiki.com/Shield_Block) and Shield Wall (http://www.wowwiki.com/Shield_Wall)? You've also got Last Stand (http://www.wowwiki.com/Last_Stand), but that isn't strictly avoiding damage. WoW warriors and rogues have 'panic button' or carefully timed abilities in abundance -- and they are absolutely required for the higher level instances. You don't know what you're talking about.

Bhodi, while I don't condone arguing with the moron, Final Fantasy did it before WoW. While it may not be unique to FFXI, WoW isn't a very good argument. Particularly since Blizzard games are the Frankenstein's Monsters of whatever genre they're a part of.

After reading this thread as a new poster, I will now have a permanent inferiority complex. I just can't match "The Grunk Gold Standard".

You could give us all syphilis without having relations with us. That's kinda close.

Not to mention his 6 month stretch of unemployment.

He wasn't saying it was first, he was saying it there was nothing even close to it in other games. I'm lazy, so I just brought the first example of his stupidity I could think of.

Also, I have a small problem with beating dead horses and arguing at brick walls.

(http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6619/drinkdartsgraphuu2.gif)

I'll help Bhodi then...EQ1 with AA abilities. Bang.

Less serial, more charts pls. Thanks.

(http://www.ers.usda.gov/amberwaves/february04/features/images/featureindiacerealchart250.gif)

(http://www.challies.com/media/stupidchart.jpg)

teh winnar!

10 pages and still going. Wow.

I couldn't get through the middle parts of this thread so I don't know which system Grunk played FF:XI on. I'm betting it was on a PS2. Playing it on a PC was like having a doberman wipe away your tears with it's claws and teeth. I recall one night installing it on one of the PCs at the school. I started at 3:15p and was done installing and updating by 8:30. By which time of course everyone else was packing up and going home for the evening. From the installer to the patcher to the fecking not being able to choose your initial server to the soot gray wasteland that was Bastock (where of course my friends decided to start from) to the mother fucking cock blocking hell hole that was the Dunes....Grunk, you are either a genius or a masochist in that you had the ability to find any kind of fun whatsoever in that game.

FF:XI didn't just touch me in bad places, it used power tools.

Getting to level 75 is not nearly as hard as it used to be.

That said, I've been playing on and off since release and my highest job is 45...but I'm not an achiever, I just like to wank around. (I also started over once which doesn't help)

This thread title will soon be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The first time I left town and could not find something I was able to kill alone was the day I quit FFXI.

Its still got a ways to go to match the SWG thread o doom.

In all seriousness you just really sucked then. Did you even have a weapon equipped? Even the "even match" enemies are very easy at low levels.

I believe you missed his point ...

Hmm...ambiguous language. Anwyay there is always something you can kill for XP solo at every level, although that XP may suck. Soloing strats are a lot better now than they used to be for most classes though.

Has anyone linked to this yet?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=til2YR_00B4

The two SWG threads o doom.

I think the only game that approach ever worked in was AC. If I recall correctly, you could pretty much slaughter bunnies all the way to the max level. The sun might burn out by that time though.

Did someone say PARTY?

(http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/darth_vader_heaven.jpg)

I am starting to like this thread more and more.

What the heck is everyone playing for MMOs nowadays? I got bored with LOTRO because at 29 it just feels like the same thing, different quest. I still log on from time to time.

I did the 10 day re-trial of WoW and found that it was the same game I never left, just with more shiny.

Where did the days of obsessing over the next-big MMO go?

I think it was when MMOs weren't being churned out day after day. In the days of EQ and UO, an MMO releasing was kind of a rare thing.

I logged onto three MMOs yesterday - WoW, EQ2, and :nda: - that's quite a feat. I'm also obviously just playing one, but talking to people in the others.

However, it's more spread out, and people have different reasons to get excited about different games. I think it will be a rare occasion when EVERYONE gets excited about a single MMO.

I played both of those but got bored. I liked the PVP aspect of WoW's WSG very much, but it seems like it is just a cheesefest now that most people who play it are T5 running over people in blues.


What is your experience? (I've been out of WoW for almost two years now)

Next "big" MMO for this crowd is probably Age of Conan, in theory this October. After that WAR next year. Maybe Huxley, but I've heard nothing deep about it. Wasn't that set for this fall too?

Otherwise most of the activity seems to be in the browser-based play, academically interesting but mostly for a different audience.

Conan sounds cool, but it's also for a console, so we'll see. WAR has potential. Huxley I refuse to get excited about because of  :nda:.

I'm playing my old favorite, EQ2. No reason to play any other 'traditional' mmo, imo. Might reinstall Planetside while I'm on the Pass.

/subliminal message:  You will play Conan.  You will play Conan.  You will play Conan.


Console version is rumored to be about a year behind the PC release.  But beware:  Because I am all giddy for AoC, it will most likely suck.  I'd still give my left, as well as possibly my right, testicle to get into AoC beta.

I cease to believe any hype-machine ever due to my experiences with VG. I was even in Beta 3.5 and it wasn't that bad where I was testing.

Fuckers.

I'm still playing WoW, but getting into Fury a lot.  Sport PvP ftw, plus none of the gear cockblocks that plague WoW.

I'm anticipating WAR as my 'next biggie' and have a mild interest in Conan, but I'm wary of the AO curse and the lack of info others have pointed out.  If I don't get to beta either I'll be waiting 3-6 months so enough non-fanboy data accumulates and the major problems are shaken-down and then make a decision.

The days of obsessing over the next big MMO went away when we started to get more than one MMO every 2-3 years.  Now we're getting 3-4 IN a year.  The fandom is just too spread-out for a collective "OOOH SHINY" surge.

Apparently I missed the Beta Preview week. Lame.

Weekend, actually. You can still sign-up through fileplanet for this and following upcoming weekends.  Here (http://www.fileplanet.com/promotions/fury/#).   Just means you can't play during the week, but I made it up to rank 5 this past weekend without catassing it, so it's not like it's hard to catch up.  Really the most frustrating part was not enough at the GM+ level, so the queue would stick higher-tier teams in with the newbs.  Didn't happen often enough for me to care, and I ranked-up quick enough to be competitive quickly.

What is the combat like? WoW? DotA? I've been craving a DotA pvp like game, and I'm wondering just reading through the site a little if this is what it is like.

Didn't know they were having MORE beta weekends. nice.


Whoa. I can see being burned by, say, SWG or CoX or DAoC. By and large those were expected to be the big thing, with varying degrees of disappointment that properly trained people on the hype machine.

But VG was a train wreck a year before launch and became a laughing stock well before the end of 2006. I think FoH largely gave up around January timeframe too. There are better games to be hyped for, but almost none worse  :evil:

I beta'd strictly for diplomacy and in the dwarven newbie area, and by and large, those systems were a bit underdeveloped, but my no means broken.

Quick answer: It's like an FPS with fantasy trappings and multiple abilities.

The PvP is frantic, and fun.  I haven't played DotA, so I don't know how to compare it there.  There's no mana for casters, so that's a huge difference.  Right now melee is overpowered when compared to magic (from the "ow that hurt") side of things. 

It doesn't really compare to WoW as there's no classes and no real levels.  There's ranks, which affect your "equip points" and determine how many skills/ what kind of equipment you can wear at any time.  You can rank-up pretty quickly, and I hit R5 inside of about 8 hours over the weekend - with a lot of AFK time and futzing around determining builds and learning how things work.

Although there's no classes, there's a few different "archtypes" and you start out as one (of your choice).  However, by using class skills in the War Zones (battlegrounds) you get "Essence" points for that school of magic, which then let you complete school trials.  The trials grant abilities and unlock the other skills on vendors, so anyone can get all the abilities in game given time.  Completing trials is also what ranks you up.  So if you want to rank fast it seems likes to swapping skills around to complete starter trials and initiate trials for each school (Growth/ Decay/ Life/ Death) rather than just power through all the trials for a school.

  I started out as an Oracle (kind of an EQ druid, damage & healing) and got pretty far down that path before I started working on the Healer class stuff.  (After losing so many PUGs to groups who had a healer, I figured i needed to do it since I hate losing.)   I'd have messed with melee rather than spell damage if I wasn't so horrible at circle strafing and keeping within range on people. Everyone has their skillset.  :-D

The various matches were fun and even in PUGs the smart folks held their own against a few guild groups or half-groups.  I expect that'll change at release, though, as it always does in pure PVP games.  The good players will wind up in groups and rape face, while the casuals or crappy folks will struggle along in PUGs.

DotA is like a hero on hero battle in War3. Or, if you never played War3, pick every WoW class' two good abilities and best ability, and you have DotA. Oh yeah, DotA is 5v5.

The glimpses we've seen of Conan are promising, but it's not even in closed beta yet, so it'll miss its release date by a mile. If it actually releases in october and isn't vanguard-level broken, I'll eat my hat.

I'm all about WAR. Haven't been looking forward to a MMO so much since WoW.

WAR has elves.

Thus my lack of excitement. ;)

But Elves you can kill if you pick the right faction.

Thus my growing excitement.

My guild's waiting for WAR too... and sticking with WOW for now. Some of us might try out Conan, though I personally am not as interested. :PBoth sides have elves... though this does mean you will be able to kill them too, no matter which faction you choose.

Thus my moderate excitement.


-- Z.
(I heart this thread  :heart: )

I love this thread, too.  It's been going for five years, you know. 

I keep seeing Grunk online, so I just hope that we can see another post soon on this thread from him.


 :inluv: :inluv: :inluv:

Signe had 2000 posts back then.

True story.

Five long years (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Wu8OA0MTQHk).

He wrote a song about me, you know.  Unfortunately, he had no words.  I had to make some up.

I've never really been much into Clapton, but that was awesome.

This thread is so fucking awesome I cannot even believe it. It was going pretty good for a while but page 5 was the most epic thing I've seen in a long time. There hasn't been anything that had me in tears like that for years.

Seriously, this thread needs to go right under the trammel thread in the Den. People need to read this thread and die laughing.

The keyboardist comes close to ruining at a couple points. Makes you appreciate a Johnny Johnson or a Billy Powell who plays the shit out of the keyboard without getting jazzy or hamfisting wrong notes.

Also, it's an Eddie Boyd song but I couldn't find any footage of his version. Blues standard.

You are obsessed with the Tram thread, I think you're pissed that you missed the fun :)

The "culture" here is very different from other boards. I really dont get why it is funny at all... but w/e

Grunk, if I could ask, how did you even find this website?

Didn't he say a link from mmorpg.com regarding the Vanguard exit interviews?

The point was for him to answer so I could tell him to go back there, Oban.

Sometimes I mention f13 in MMORPG.com and a few other places.  I'm always excited to see what turns up.  F13 has got some attention from other people there, also.  A couple of people have it in their sigs.  I remember one is a link to the Darkfall thread.

Do ya crap for em too, OBAN!?!?!? ;)

The Grunk can handle himself. The Grunk is not intimidated by casuals. The Grunk has a static. If I'm lucky, I can figure out what a static is and get one too.













I think we should all thank The Grunk from taking time out of his busy day of extreme (and by extreme I mean ESPN2 late night kind of extreme) catassing and sniffing paint thinner.

Thank you , Grunk

 

(http://www.epiphone.com/images/N_WayneNAMM1.jpg)

You don't want one.

Apologies for twisting the spirit of this thread and attempting to make it casual friendly.

12 pages do not a casual thread make :)

This thread isn't anywhere near hardcore, though.  What is it?

Damnit we're stuck in the middle. Press on, grind more we'll get hardcore yet!  :rock:

You know what would be awesome, if you didn't post for a while, and your postcount went down.

OMG post decay be insane. Forget IGN...

Well, since you were curious, I was playing a black mage taru at the time, and I honestly cannot remember what class Killjoy was playing (yeah, that fucker again).  We would double up on things, as always, but there came a point around level ten or twelve where we were faced with a tedious grind or grouping with japatards.  We chose Option 3: unsubscribe.  He lasted a bit longer than me, but not by much.

It's nice to hear things have improved, but I'm not going back.  I'd rather grind in a single-player game.  Did you know you can level your characters to 9999 in La Pucelle?

That dude's teeth are way too cavity-free to be hardcore. What, did he grow up in a state with fluoridated water? Ooh, how intimidating.

His day job as an investment banker has a totally hardcore dental insurance policy.

Don King hair is punk now?  What?

This thread has done it.
It has brought me from the long time lurker shadows.

Grunk, those head wounds you've received...
Yeah, that's from the logic club, reason stick, and comparative analysis hammer.
Beatings will continue until enlightenment is attained.

Thank you, please carry on.

I guess I could have tinted the entire picture green. There is nothing hardcore about Wayne Static.

Real hardcore punks never make it.
If you get denned you get a post count debt you have to work off, each post only counts as a half-post.

That sort of thing might

Encourage multiple postings.

That's probably

Not a good thing.

Well, people are already camping the named spawns and all the newbies are rolling up the flame class. Nerf the flames!

Weekends always bring out the weirdoes.

I'm just amused that both WUA and Slayerik, usually hated enemies have both teamed up to flame the Grunk in their own indomintubatleable ways.


Grunk brings love. Grunk brings hope. Grunk brings unity.


 :heart:

The dirty little secret of the epic f13 "Handful of Insane Cranks Who Still Talk About UO" wars is that Slayerik and I actually get along okay, and that 95% of our flaming each other is basically self-aware sparring for shits and giggles.

My reality has been eternally shattered! I am so confused!

This is obviously the future of message board design.

I need to work on my postcount before the next f13 expansion, or I'll never be able to see the new endgame content.

- Q

Can we get resting post count bonuses? You know, like the first 10 posts of the day are worth triple score, then the next 10 double etc all the way down to posts only being worth 0.1 of a post count?

Otherwise, these boards aren't fair on casual posters.

Yeah, its just to keep me sharp for tough challenges like Grunk and Drifting Darkangel.

Dude, come on. We hate each other. I will nevar be friends with a trammie!!!! ;)

A lot of the hardcore UO players from the day hear harken from very different playstyles. The great thing is that the game supported all those styles very well, and with the lack of variety in the mmo market we were all mashed together. You'll never see it again, I'm glad I was there.

UO had the luxury of no competition* to offer something for everyone. Unfortunately doing that now would probably see the game ignored by the various sub-tribes of MMO players for not offering their little cliche something special.

*No big name, widely available competition

Well put Sky.

/high five

Heh, if the Multiverse people succeed in getting some big development teams to use their engine, we could see a future of people jumping from each game with their same avatar, getting their clicque/niche activity fulfilled for a session.

Color me skeptical though. I want it to succeed but it seems more a hobbiest dream like NWN than anything for the AAA studio.

This thread delivers now with more Corp Por!

I don't always jump into the UO conversations/bitchslapping, but the name Sky is from one of my favorite UO characters on Atlantic, late 97/early 98.

Goddamn. Ten years.

That because you're a stupid mean PK who'd gank his mom for her muffinz!!1!

Speaking of which, I resubbed to the game a few days ago.  So did a couple friends of mine who used to play a few years ago.  The new client isn't quite ready for primetime yet, but they seem to be working hard and it's getting better with each patch.  Woot.

Can we please get back to the "will panic for gil"? You guys have like thirty UO shitslinging threads but FFXI almost never gets the appropriate amount of dead-horse beatings.

Mithra /panic for gil    Oh the memories....

Galkans. I don't think I've ever seen a more retarded racial graphic.

Have you heard of EQ, EQ2 or Vanguard?

So, a bit more in line with the subject, I saw FFXI going for $4 on the counter at my local Gamestop, which says it comes with a month of gameplay.  It also has an asterisk and mentions that there are fees for online use.  Sooo, I'm not exactly sure whether that means they actually bill you for the month of gameplay that 'comes with it'.  Also couldn't tell whether the trial disk comes with any expansion content or not.

The real kicker is that they're not telling you the dvd will explode in your dvd drive and the shrapnel will seek your genitals.

Dude, that's a feature.

But really,  you should hope that feature kicks in before you begin account creation.  Genital-seeking shrapnel would be less painful.

It'll at least give you something to do while you wait on patching in any event.

Hehhe.

My day was shit until I read that.

And now, a brief musical interlude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHpMAubwfQg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHpMAubwfQg)

And now back to the show.

"We've still got "Crusade" so we ain't too sorry..."

That song was written by someone never actually watched an episode of Crusade.

Le awesome.

And I liked Crusade, mostly because I just dug Galen's character. It had potential.

I must confess, I never saw much of Crusade. Something got in the way either time-wise or programming wise (I don't remember). It'll be one I catch on DVD. I've seen most if not all of the movies though. B5 remains the pinnacle of sci-fi with BSG sneaking up from the rear. Actually Doctor Who is the tops but for a closed, finite storyline/series, B5 takes it.

If only the DVDs weren't so damned expensive.

And Crusade...  c'mon.. you fire the guns by punching and kicking? Wtf?


Ed:  Hrm.. Amazon.com has a full run set for $220us. The price dropped, whee.  I remember they were $60 or $70 a season before.

That wasn't Crusade. That was the one-off movie Sci-Fi Channel did called Legend of the Rangers. It was supposed to be a pilot for a new series, but the ratings weren't good enough for Sci-Fi. Crusade had Gary Cole as the Captain, a cameo by Capt. Lochley and Dr. Franklin, had Galen the technomage and a few other characters. Crusade had some groan moments (like first season B5) but was overall decent.

Really? Crap my mistake then.  Guess I never saw Crusade, as I don't recall what you're describing at all.

Also, any Rangers story with Franklin that didn't have Marcus could never beat  this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=TbQ-y589mx8)

Yeah, Marcus was the shit.

Crusade was a series that TNT ran which spun off from A Call to Arms, about the crew of the Excalibur trying to find a cure to the Drakh plague. It only ran 13 episodes before TNT shitcanned it for more wrestling.

Did anyone watch the pilot for that Flash Gordon show?

It was pretty meh for the most part.

It came on after Dr. Who so I watched.  It was very forgettable.  Seriously.  I don't even remember the plot.

The last few of these tacked-on sci-fi shows have had at least decent acting.  I liked the main two characters in Dresden Files, for example, even though the stories themselves were bad.  I like Jane in Painkiller Jane.  But Flash Gordon?  Wow, bad.  The acting was terrible, to the point that I can recall high school performances that were better.  Commercials from local dealerships are bett... well, ok, that's a close contest.  The story was bad.  The theme music was bad.  The alien robot was an insult to watch. 

I found Jane (and all of Painkiller Jane), not only to be some of the worst acting I'd ever seen, but also the worst storytelling. The whole fucking thing was a wreck. I'm pissed I wached as much as I did.

I was able to enjoy Dresden Files mostly because of the same reasons as Roac.  I didn't like Painkiller Jane a bit, though, and turned it off during the first episode and never watched again. 

I can't watch anything Sci-Fi now.  Their shows all have a style to them that isn't like, say, Farscape-quality.

I can't believe they killed the Dresden Files and not Painkiller Jane. (Although the Dresden numbers apparently tracked too female for Sci-Fi's tastes -- they sell access to the prime male market, not the female).

Eureka's not half bad, and I watch that regularly. I'm hoping their Tin Man miniseries doesn't suck, but I'm sure it will. Otherwise -- Sci-Fi's programming choices looks like it was done by retarded monkeys.

The truth is a little more prosaic -- what they WANT are low-budget shit that attracts 13 to 39 year old men, like wrestling and their series of low budget "Insert Animal Here" movies about killer Whatever the Hell Animal They Chose.

However, that would just make them a crappier version of TNT (or Spike or whatever they call themselves these days), so they try for high-quality Sci Fi programming -- and realized that could get them a lot of new eyeballs and seperate them from Spike. The high-quality stuff had sticky fans, good word of mouth, got glowing reviews --- which means more and new eyeballs for their channel.

But that costs money.

I think ultimately they view stuff like BSG as a four-year, very expensive commercial designed to get people to watch Wrestling on Sci-Fi. And they're pissy that they keep having to do that shit. So they run Farscape just a year, then piss off the fans. They cancel SG-1, after fucking with it for years to try to get more young male viewers. They're probably thrilled as shit BSG is ending, someone else pays for shooting Doctor Who (they just pay to air it)....

I also liked Dresden.

Painkiller jane was canceled too, and rightfully so. Watching the terminatrix try to act was not entirely unlike getting a colonoscopy without fasting, anesthesia, or lube. And c'mon, "Andre McBride"? Fuck you for not even trying, Sci-fi.

If there's any justice Flash Gordon will be canceled also. Actually, if there's any justice, not only will Flash be cancelled, but whoever greenlit that piece of dogshit will be tarred, feathered, drawn, quartered, buried at a crossroads, and the earth strewn with salt so nothing will grow for thousands of years.

Wait, why is this in the MMO forum again?

If this thread had not been derailed, it wouldn't have lasted these five years.

SG-1 really sucked, I never understood how anyone could like it.

(http://www.clisham.com-a.googlepages.com/macgyver.jpg)

Hey you leave McGuyver out of this!

Flash Gordon might have legs, although only if they start playing the queen intro on the fucking opening sequence.  I've watched all the episodes so far, it's not epic, and needs more naked wimmenz.  What is going to kill that show is the lack of Queen in the opening credits, every time it's on, for the first 15 minutes all I can think is "why the fuck aren't you stupid bastard playing some Queen for the opening credits, fucking morons.", the other 45 minutes are bearable.

Note:  I just moved, and am bored out of my fucking skull waiting to hear back from various interviews, that could have somthing to do with me being able to watch horrible things.

Note2: Drunk. Superbad rocks.  Theatre that servers alchohol rocks harder.

That's why I stopped watching Star Trek: Enterprise; the bastards went and changed the theme song.

I believe the Richard Dean Anderson picture explained it all.

Although, frankly, two episodes in the first two seaons made it for me -- 1969 and Window of Oppurtunity. Mostly the latter, which was a Groundhog-Day style thing that was really good.

One fun thing I learned from browsing commentaries on the DVDs is that Richard Dean Anderson absolutely MUST have a prop to play with -- his character was locked in a cell and he took off his own shoe to play with it. And apparently he has a habit of ad-libbing stuff that's good enough to keep, despite adding money to the budget (touching the water-effect Stargate thing, forcing FX work rather than stock shots -- which was much more pricey in 97 than now, that sort of thing).

Here you go! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od-8H6DPb8g)

bahahaha, what the hell kind of spider causes that?

Wow, here I was worried I was the only one who had a seemingly irrational hatred of lyrics in Star Trek theme songs.

I feel so much better now.

I had a zit like that once. True story.

Jesus fucking Christ, what would possess someone to try to drain the massive cyst on the side of their face at home, in the bathroom?
Along those lines, why would you have a link to that handy?  This is why I don't like people, and wish every day that I would've gone into programming instead of sales.

That was disgusting.

Wait, I thought tkinnun0 was referring to the way they changed the song starting at the third season.  I actually really liked the song, and thought it went well with the theme of the series - at least, the theme I thought they were going for, not the one they actually did.  When the tempo was changed in the third season, it sounded like ass though.  I never understood why they did that.

I started watching Enterprise, and I saw the intro, and I thought...  This is great.  It's different.  This isn't more pompous crappy TV-level orchestral crap, it's an actual song.  Oh and look at the Wright Brothers, and the Space Shuttle.  This is going to be awesome.  It's going to be a show about people like... trekking among the stars, not a bunch of masturbation to the Star Trek Mythos(tm).

Then I watched the show and it sucked, so I quit.  Later I heard about the Borg and some Space Nazi shit and was glad I got out early.

Because they couldn't understand why an IP like that had ratings that were worse than people viewing my pic at Hotornot.

They really had a mental disconnect and thought it was theme.  Instead of things like, you know, the lizard space Nazis.

And, frankly, they insulted the audience STRAIGHT AWAY with a first season full of 'I Must Apply This Anti-Rad Gel to Hoshi's Taut Asshole.  The Only Way To Remove It Is For Phlox To Lick It Off.'

Fucking shite program from start to finish.  Woeful.

Assholes.

And anyone that comes here to defend it ?  You're an asshole too.  Asshole.

(No, I don't want to hear how good the last season was.  Fuck Off.)

Also, I will be forever bitter about the way they killed Tripp.  I think it actually beats Tasha Yar's death for most completely pointless character elimination ever.

The song was always crap, regardless of the season.  I prefer my sci-fi intro music to be bizarre and otherworldly and completely void of lyrics or Old Earth visuals. I'm not saying any other series got it exactly right, just that Enterprise got it wrong FOR ME.

I liked the Phlox CONCEPT.  Execution was sucky.

And the softcore porn decon sequence was completely unnecessary.  They took that line between edgy and slutty and just jumped right over it and a giant fucking shark all at the same time.

Aww c'mon Ironwood. You can't tell me you didn't like the two parter in the last season set in the Mirror, Mirror universe. :)

Jolene Blaylock almost makes it watchable.

I stopped watching right there, it was the most pandering, low-brow thing I've ever seen in Star Trek.  Lube me up Scotty. 

Voodoorirry.  Welcome to the Link Blacklist.  Enjoy your stay.

In my defense, I had seen that vid on Attack of the Show mere moments before the "Watch something horrible" comment was psted here. Blame G4, not me.

btw, what does this even mean?

That almost made me physically sick.  I couldn't watch the whole thing.

Hahah, yeah I saw the same show. I didnt even have to click on the link to know where that was headed.

Fuck, I completely forgot that Tripp died.  Now I'm pissed all over again.
That he won't ever again click one of your links.   It was pretty damn foul, but I went into it expecting something foul, and I haddn't eaten in a while.  Otherwise you might've made mine, too.  Ewww.

Tripp Died ?

He was the only one that was any fucking use.  And I mean in the show AND IRL.

Fuck sake, they really wanted to bury that shit, didn't they ?

Yes.  I fucking can.

See, the mirror image thing stopped being in any way decent when DS9 did it and FUCKED IT RIGHT UP.

Slutty women in fucking leather gear and an Odo that made no fucking sense.

Cunts.

Do Not Ask Me About My Star Trek Fandom.  It died, and it's painful to talk about.


OH AND VOYAGER, FUCK VOYAGER.  FUCK KIM.  FUCK PARIS.  FUCK THAT AUDREY HEPBURN IMITATING BITCH.

ST stopped having a purpose after TNG. It's not that I think Picard was the best evar!1/1 It's that they didn't bother doing anything but rehashing old TOS and TNG stuff in every show (and most of the movies) the followed. They lost the whole point of the show and weren't skilled enough to ply even what they had.

Jury's out on JJ Abrams. That feels more like the recurring "let's make ST cool!" goal than anything else. Maybe it'll work. I'm just tired of revisionist history. It's like they're scared to go further into the future than TNG was set. What? You worried you're not creative enough to make stuff up?! All they're doing is pissing off the last of their core.

Enterprise had such huge potential. I'm not a big Trek fan, but I've seen quite a bit of the stuff. But the concept of early exploration just as the Federation was getting up and running, the first Enterprise...that could have been so cool and laden with so many great moments, first contact with klingons alone could've been put at the top of the trekkie shrine.

They totally fucked it up and I stopped watching after maybe five episodes.

Someday a major IP holder is going to be consistent with the lore as coordinated by their out-licensing program, instead of reinventing stuff just for the sake of it. I think I'd have been a lot more interested in Enterprise if they at least paid homage to the books that defined that time period. Instead they played the same formulaec nonsense wrapped with different skins. That's what aggravated me overall, that they couldn't do anything but rehash the past in the past.

Enterprise wasn't great, but I don't have the spastic explosion of hate for it 'wood does.  Then again, I was only ever a passing fan of ST, not a fanboi.  Given my reactions to the EU in Star Wars, though, I think I understand.

Still, I put the blame for 90% of the Voyager/ DS9/ Enterprise crap on people involved in Sci-Fi today in general.  They seem to feel there's no place for hope at all.  Everything has to be 'edgy' and reflect how shitty things are now.  The major theme seems to be 'humans will never be any better than we are now! Spoiled brats who twist tech, lie and sow trouble throughout the universe, through naivety or malice."

Hell, that one asshat who writes for BSG now had a huge issue with the entire concept of Star Trek to begin with. He's the jackass that started introducing "Black Ops" sections and what-not into the Federation to "make it more real."  Fuck that, the entire idea was that civilization had evolved BEYOND that.  Congrats, you just made the Federation no better than the Romulans, only marginally less xenophobic.

NEVER EVER EVER EVER put DS9 in the same category with Voyager and Enterprise.

That will get you the death sentence in at least 5 systems.

Although, DS9 DID take the mirrorverse too far.  But I did find it personally amusing to see that Kira and Garek are finally open about their sexual orientations in the mirrorverse :P

Tripp was the one thing I loved about Enterprise.  Just like the Doctor was the only thing I liked about Voyager.

It belongs there because it wasn't Star Trek and in-line with the rest of "Teh Vision" of Roddenberry.  I didn't say it was a crappy show, but to call it Star Trek is somewhat disingenuous.

Oh, you're one of THOSE people.  I understand now.

Personally, I thought DS9 was better than TNG.  Flame on!

I too prefer DS9 to TNG.  Oh, and I don't mind Jolene Blalock.  She was always willing to shoot her mouth off to the press about how the shitty writing on Enterprise was killing the show.

Fixed.

Wow. She has a lot of skeezy pictures on Google Imagesearch, eh?

Err, yea, wow. I get the impression she wouldn't be shy about an R-Rated Enterprise...

Deepthroat Nine?

DS9 was weaksauce, plain and simple.

I like her boobies, but I was speaking of things like this (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Jolene_Blalock).


EDIT:  Hooray, Slayerik and I have found something to fight about now that Schild won't let us fight about UO anymore!  TNG was for pussies, DS9 all the way!

There was a film called "Deep Space Sixty Nine" in an adult film store I went into once.

Sadly, it was gone when I returned to purchase it.

That is a very, very good thing. I don't think you really wanted to subject yourself to such garbage.

Hey I got an idea....lets make a show, a Star TREK show, that involves wanking off in a space station! I mean, why TREK when we can deal with all the drama that is life on a shit turd space station. Also, lets make sure not to cast any hot chicks to make this station at least appealing to the eyes.

To me, Star Trek has always been about cruising the galaxy, pwning aliens, and finding your way out of near impossible situations. That and hot alien bitches (with an occasional straight up human hottie). It probably comes as no surprise that the Original was by far my favorite of them. But I'm no trekkie, I couldn't tell you a thing about voyager (chick captain....LAWL) and only watched Enterprise at my brother's house cause he was into it.

Terry Farrell was fairly pretty on that show.

Uh...yeah.

Even I thought Dax was hot. 

I am with Slayerik mostly in my borderline disdain for DS9. I didn't dislike the show, I just thought the premise was boring. You write books about life on a space station. You don't make episodic TV content out of it and expect wide appeal. We don't need Star Trek the Soap Opera. That's why we have Grey's Anatomy (and how General Hospital could stretch to Night Shift... stupid alternative timeline and all). That's why you don't see a Star Wars movie or Cartoon Network episode about life as a moisture farmer. The world of these IPs is backdrop for a reason.

I don't have a problem with Captain Janeway though. I think she could have been fine with better material. They tried to make her too much like Picard in my opinion. I'd have preferred someone more cavalier, maybe a MacKenzie type from the Peter David series. The premise of the show was cool and I was into it for a bit (highlights: finally it occurs to someone they could transport a bomb into a Borg entity... DUH!, the Phoenix prototype ship that splits into three parts, underutilized though it was, slipstream, that bad guy that lured Janeway away on the supposedly-deposited next-gen Starship because she unlocked Species 8472. Good stuff).

But I hate revisionist history. I know why it happens (the Producers seemed to not care about the out-licensed activities), but it's annoying.

What did Audrey do?

(http://www.geocities.com/audreyhepburn6/audrey_hepburn.jpg)

You mean Katharine:

(http://www.notablebiographies.com/images/uewb_05_img0336.jpg)

Look, original Star Trek beats the shit out of DS9, no doubt.  Kirk just cruised around the galaxy with his pals Spock and Bones, bitchslapping uppity aliens, banging sluts, and murdering gods.  No shit, if you were a weird alien being or a supercomputer and you had a tribe of primitive people worshipping you, and Kirk showed up, it was time to look the fuck out because he was about to prove some point about the value of independence by ruining your shit.

And DS9 was spotty anyway.  But it's good moments were pretty good, and it was fuckloads better than TNG, which with only rare exception was dry, boring, neutered, politically correct drek.

My biggest problem with Katherine Janeway's role is that 80 % of the time, she didn't act like a captain of a starship, but rather more like a WalMart regional manager. Add to that Neelix need for acceptance, the Doctor figuring out how to be human. 7 of 9 figuring out how to be human. Belana Torres figuring out how to not be bitchy all the time, Harry Kim trying to get Laid, all toped off with Chikote (sp) entoning new age pseudo native american bullshit.

The more I think about it, the more Voyager seemed more about socialization of disfunctional people rather than any real adventures in space.

Yes.  That is, in fact, what I meant.

Bitch.

I couldnt make it through episodes of DS9. TNG wasn't great, but you could at least watch an episode and not go...ummm....I dont know wtf is going on. Riker at least tried to get rowdy once in a while.

And Dax just didn't do it for me. She is good looking, but not sexy IMO.

I looked her up.  She played Mrs. Columbo.  There was a whole TV series about Columbo's invisible wife.   :-o

Loved TNG, and I doubt I'll ever get as enthralled with a show as I was this one.  Didn't care for DS9.  Not because it was bad, but because I just couldn't get into it.  Voyager wasn't very good.  Enterprise was decent first couple of seasons, and I quit upon seeing nazi aliens.  Supposedly season 4 was better, but I  just couldn't make myself watch except for the finale (It's ST, I'm oath-bound to do so).

DS9 was very good, especially once they got into the Dominion War and shit. TNG was just pablam. Way too snuggly huggly hippie shit and way too much dilithium crystal-fiddling to solve the inane science-techy problem of the week. Voyager had a great excuse to tank all the narrative bullshit that TNG forced upon the series, like the goddamned Prime Directive, and instead pussed out at every opportunity, giving us even more of the crystal-fiddling shit, only with an annoying cast. They all COULD have been interesting characters (except maybe Neelix) but they were all written into cardboard cutouts. The enemies were shit, and adding the Borg just showed what shit the villains were.

As a result, I gave up on the ST franchise, especially after seeing that dreadful Nemesis movie. Picard's Romulan clone? WHAT? ARE YOU EVEN TRYING NOW?

I didn't watch Enterprise because of Nemesis.

Let's face it :  When you make Wrath of Khan, you may as well stop with the movies.  Nothing else will come close.

That said, I thought that ALL the Next Generation movies were utter, utter, utter shite.  Especially First Contact.  People should be KILLED for that.

"There be whales here!"

I must say I enjoyed The Voyage Home, a lighter watch. Khan definetely wins though.

Khan is great, but I still like Undiscovered Country more than Voyage Home.  VH hasn't held-up over the years nearly as well for me.

Yeah I almost forgot that one, definetely a good flick. I'd rate em about the same. I was probably around the right age to really enjoy VH, so I still remember it fondly.

Agree on Kahn. Were talking about it at work today actually, in the context of character deaths (was asking the trekkie about Trip's death). Every other ST movie was nowhere near it, though I didn't have the problem with First Contact. It wasn't Star Trek but it was a fun movie. I'll generally lean towards "enjoyable" for a movie over authenticity/lore. Like, if Enterprise wasn't actually good programming at all, I might have been able to forgive much that was wrong with it.

Undiscovered Country was ok, but not the best way to end TOS (and please don't get me started on the killing of Kirk in the next one).

Sure I did. "Buffy the Vampire Layer" was hilarious, in a so bad it's good way.

In my opinion as far as Star Trek movies 2, 4 and 6 were all good, with 2 being the best. I never watched past 6 and always wondered if 8 and 10 were any good.

I loved the original series for its comedy and I really liked TNG. I never got into DS9, Voyager or Enterprise, although I watched a few episodes of each. They just didn't seem to draw me in.

I thought I was done with Sci-Fi until BSG came around and I loved the first two seasons of that. The last season left me feeling a little flat, but they originally did a great job of rehashing that old series.

There were three or four episodes of TNG which were absolutely fantastic - namely any one where they started messing around with reality ("Ship In A Bottle" being about the only one I can remember the name of, the other one with Dr Crusher in a collapsing reality/warp bubble thing). 

They were even better when viewed under the influence of recreational pharmaceuticals of the hallucinogenic type.

DS9 had to introduce a war because it worked well for Babylon 5.  Voyager was outclassed by Red Dwarf (and not that retarded US brutalization of the show).  The fact that Enterprise got 5 seasons and Firefly got 1 just demonstrates that there is a fucking god and he fucking hates us.

I watched two (I think) episodes of Enterprise and only a handful of Voyager.  I watched every Red Dwarf episode I could.

Obviously, Red Dwarf was the better Sci-Fi show by far which is interesting considering it's budget must have been 1/100th of either of the Star Trek shows.

I'm not entirely sure you could actually call Red Dwarf a sci-fi show.

In that case I would classify the Treks/B5 as drama.  The setting makes the genre in the case of Sci-Fi/fantasy not the content, this was accepted in fiction writing long ago.

Robots, holograms, aliens, spaceships, sentient AI, time-travel, alternate realities, a talking toaster, curry and zero-g football.

Yeah, not sci-fi at all.  

I think the point is that in Red Dwarf, sci-fi was merely a vehicle for a comedy, but not really the point itself. It could have just as well been set in WW1, Elizabethan England or any other scenario, much like Black Adder.

Indeed.  It's straight comedy, or possibly the horribly misused brother, the Sit-Com.

Sure, it's on a spaceship, but so fucking what ?

Incidentally, this post brought to you by the guy that doesn't count Firefly as Sci-Fi either.


No point in arguing with me.  You'll just get exasperated.

Much like Star Trek (TOS or TNG) could have been set on a 17th century sailing vessel on a voyage of discovery in the South Pacific?  Sci-fi is always just the vehicle for the story, it's a method of exploring ideas in an idealized framework where you can limit real-world complexities.  Yeah, blasters and light-sabers and X-Wings are cool but the same story can be told with pearl handled 44's, cavalry sabers and horse chases.

No, I understand where you are coming from, I just think you are completely wrong.  :-D

It's strange.  You're kinda making my point.

Original Star Trek ?  Same as Firefly :  Not so much about the Sci-Fi.

Star Trek Next Gen ?  Totally about the SCi-Fi.

S'ok.  I hear that a lot.

Because we aren't disagreeing in principle just in scope.  I don't believe TNG had any real emphasis on Sci-Fi as a premise, other than as a Deus Ex Machina or outside of a few specific episodes than any other series or movie.  Alien is a horror movie but it's setting was Sci-Fi.  Anything with Sci-Fi trappings is Sci-Fi regardless of how much focus is on the Fi instead of the Sci.

In which case you're lumping Sandra Bullock in The 'Net as Sci-Fi.

Omg.  What have you done ?

TNG Totally had emphasis on the Sci-FI.  If you took out the ship, the phasers, the holodeck, the fucking reverse polarity, all that shit;  all you'd be left with was Patrick Stewart.  You simply can't do very many TNG episodes on, as you say, the deck of the Redoubt off France during the Napoleonic wars.  You NEED the phasers and the transporters and Data and Marina Sirtis playing with herself.

On Firefly, not so much.  Hell, the Firefly was just a way to move about between scenes.  Many Episodes of TNG were fucking played out IN THE HOLODECK.

Hmm.

Here again I'm with Ironwood. "Sci-fi" to me isn't just about the setting and props. You could replace the Enterprise, Phasers and Transporters with a clipper ship, musket and magic. You could do the same with all of the Star Wars stuff. Firefly was an old western, replacing a horse/carriage with a spaceship (the movie did get more sci-fi-ish though). And I loved all of these things, and Fifth Element, and Stargate (the movie), and so on. I just feel they used sci-fi trappings to wrap a conventional story around, repackaging it because that was easier to sell.

I don't have a clear definition for sci-fi in movies, but I do feel it is much easier to go into true sci-fi realms in books. Probably about the demographics. It's cheaper to write a book than make a movie too.

Dream sequence.  Magic.  Drug sequence.  Shared hallucination.  Flashback/flashforward.  There are numerous ways in which holodeck-esque scenes could be carried out sans sci-fi.  Modern sci-fi is rarely more than fiction which uses the setting as a prop.  Classic sci-fi normally used it to help mask questions about humanity, such as using androids to questoin the meaning or future of humanity.  Aliens can mask questions of racism, culture, etc.  You don't need sci-fi as vehicles for any of this though, and they're all questions which have been explored in plenty of depth long before this was even a genre.  For example, you have a holodeck episode where the people are trapped there, but aren't aware that everything is fake?  Rework of Plato's cave. 

I see where Ironwood and co are coming from and I agree about Firefly - great series but really just a Western in space.  However, I definitely disagree about Red Dwarf.  Yes it's straight (or situational) comedy but the premise is pure sci-fi - a series about the last human alive.  The question they ask, however, is "What if the last human alive was a curry eating, lager drinking, good for nothing waster?"  Red Dwarf might not have been deep and was played mostly for laughs but they did explore alternate/parallel universes, how would people react if they were stripped of one particular emotion, time travel etc. 

You can't tell me that "Terry and June" or "Only Fools and Horses" could have explored similar themes without becoming sci-fi.

I didn't want to get into the High-Concept Sci-Fi vs. Low stuff as I think it is moot to this discussion because either case implies Sci-Fi as setting.

But yes, I agree that Red Dwarf, even though it was a situation comedy, filmed in front of a live audience, and on a low budget it was still High Concept Sci-Fi.

I never saw Firefly but even if it's 'just a western in space' it is still Sci-Fi.  Because, you know, it's in space.  Where a western would, you know, have to be in the Old West...

The problem here is that Sci-fi is (or has become) a setting rather than a genre these days. Yet, everyone wants to take anything happening in a sci-fi setting, and claim that it should all be lumbed together as a genre.

I just differentiate the two and ignore everyone else. Settings are things like sci-fi, western, naval, Victorian. Genres are the traditional Drama, Comedy, Horror, etc. Most movies fit in to one of each, which is fine.

To be fair, I am aware that sci-fi used to refer to something different. Essentialy, I though it refered to stories in which the speculative technology and social situations were the main focus of the story. 2001 is traditional sci-fi. Alien is a Horror movie in a sci-fi setting. Very little stuff made these days fits what used to be the "sci-fi genre". I would say Children of Men is one of the few recent examples that does fit it, and theres not a single ray gun or spaceship to be seen.

Bicentennial Man would be another good example that I think fits your argument.

It doesn't count, since it's lifted word for word from an Asimov Sci-Fi story.

Well, it fits better than the I Robot movie, which is kind of ironic.   :-P

I didn't know it was stolen from Asimov. Sorry.

The point is still valid though, I think :)

To me this is the High Concept/Low Concept thing.  High Concept is stuff like Phillip K. Dick where even The Short Happy Life Of The Brown Oxford qualifies as Sci-Fi even though it is about a common everyday shoe.  Low Concept is when you get something like Spaceballs where the Sci-Fi is really just a setting used because it's cool and there is not even an attempt to explore any deeper questions.

Asimov used robots in I, Robot to explore questions of slavery, determinism, identity, creation and etc... the movie used robots but really wasn't all that interested opening a dialog on any big questions.

My point though is that it is all sci-fi and it (Sci-Fi) has always been a setting (John Carter of Mars (1911) or The Galactic Lensmen (1928?) for examples of early low concept sci-fi) the drama, comedy, action and etc... elements aren't instead of the Sci-Fi label they are additional descriptors to it.

edited to add dates to illustrate the point.

Yeah, in book form it's Sci-Fi.  In the movie, it's a comedy because the whole things about Robin Williams dying.   I mean, that's some funny shit.

Sorry mate, I missed you in my skim reading.

I disagree with what you said.  For a different point of view, look at that episode where Beverly was being 'haunted' by a Lantern.  It was fucking lame.  However, the episode with Riker in the Mental Asylum WAS a way to do the same 'holodeck' story without the frigging holodeck, so I guess your argument may have legs.

But I know you'll disagree no matter what my stance is, so I'm going to go with the Magic Haunted Lantern being Fucking Lame.  It just needed fucking Jupiter Jones to come in and solve the case.  Fucking LAME.



Fucking Lame :  What wins internet arguments.

You should.  Unless you don't like stuff written by Joss Whedon.  It's great.  It also has the appropriate piece of dialogue:

Wash: That sounds like something out of science fiction!
Zoe: Honey, you live on a spaceship.

I'd go fruether than Draconian: I hate most of Joss Whedon's whiny nonsense, but Firefly is from an altogether better place.

A guy at work gave me his firefly boxed set because he bought a 2nd one.  I thought that was weird, plus I wasn't interested in it, anyway I was bored one night and started watching it.  Didn't get much sleep for a few days watching it all.  Really can't believe they cancelled it, considering the normal crap that is on TV.

It has a special place in my heart merely for the fact that there's a Baldwin in it that's WORTH A DAMN.


Truly epic.

I can. Westerns don't get good ratings.

The only people that like westerns are old men from a previous generation who talk differently than I do. And probably don't like that gosh-darned TV set.

And it takes a certain kind of nerd to enjoy Joss Whedon. I, personally, think his writing is unbearable trash. Honestly, I'm surprised that show lasted as long as it did.

I was more shocked by the cancellations of Wonderfalls, Veritas, Sportsnight, Surface, and The Tick. And, of course, Dead Like Me.

Do you practice in front of the mirror ?

Yeah, I liked buffy too.

He's worth a damn because he's not related.  (http://imdb.com/name/nm0000284/bio)  I'm sure the Baldwin family had a fit when they realized they couldn't get SAG to change his name.

Wow.

The More You Know.

Cheers, I suspect I'm one of a long line of retards who merely made an assumption.  That explains it all !

:)

I thought the same thing about him. My theory was that he was only half-Baldwin or adopted or something, hence the lack of suckiness.

Is this whole post a joke? I can't tell. I don't think I've ever heard of any of those shows (minus the Tick). Maybe I'm a certain type of nerd that likes Firefly but has no radar for these actual 'good' shows you mentioned.

You are the first person I have talked to that watched the show that didnt like it. Ah well.

The only reason I knew Adam Baldwin wasn't a "real" Baldwin is because I'd looked him up previously.  I'd recognized him in Independence Day and wanted to be sure.  I thought the same thing until I read the bio. 

I tried watching Sportsnight but the canned laughter track put me right off.  You American's are strange sometimes, can someone explain to me why Seinfeld was so popular?

Seinfeld was popular because there were no real rules for the show, outside of the cast and sets. It didn't follow the usual path of sitcoms because it didn't devolve into a soap opera like most do. Nothing remarkable about the show ever changed, except the situations, remaining a show of single episodes about nothing, something they even took to an artform in the one ongoing storyline they ever did (them sitting around writing a show for NBC about nothing, complete with a Pilot they filmed and showed with doubles doing the exact things the main characters do.)

There was almost no evolution to anything, which I think is part of its staying power. And it was replete with stupid events, wierd terminology (jerkstore, man hands, regifter, etc) that were catchy enough to enter popular culture. It still is very popular in syndication.

I still laugh at it and choose to watch it over other television shows. :)

Dead like me was a really good show.

Since Darniaq responded, you have to explain why Coupling and Black Books was considered funny.

Yes, why was it canceled again?

Ellen Muth had freakishly huge hands?

Coupling wasn't funny: the Welsh bloke was funny and he happened to be in Coupling.  When he wasn't in series three, but went to do voiceovers for Microsoft ads instead, Coupling was apalling.

Black Books was funny because of Bill Bailey's range of expression, Dylan Moran's comic acting, and because the scriptwriters were actually very talented and put effort into making many episodes into complex shaggy-dog stories (the gradual build-up to the Frankenstein episode in the wine-bottle episode springs to mind).  It also had a density of jokes that came close to the US, ensemble-written form.

Dead Like Me was cancelled because despite having some great characters and a really cool premise, the show got to be really boring and repetative.

Laugh tracks are warning sirens designed to let me know to change the chanel before I accidentaly watch drek. Unfortunately, they occasionally get added to shows that don't deserve them, likely due to the oppinions of a room full of inbred focus groupers who showed up for the $50 and free cookies.

"shiznitz - WUA and Slayerik are arguing which side of a glory hole is less gay."

I really have made it! I hit 1000 posts this week and am included in a sig!  :rock:

 :yahoo:

This has NEVER gotten a show canceled as fast as Dead Like Me was.

Black books I can't remember watching more than once.  Coupling 1-2 weren't terrible, I liked the episode when one of the guys picks up a girl on a train by pretending he had a wooden leg.

I agree about Coupling.  Black Books, on the other hand, should have been funny for all the reasons you mention - Dylan Moran, Bill Bailey (who is my favourite stand-up of all time) and co-written by Graham Linehan - it just never tickled me that much.

That was my favourite, too: by far the best scripted, and with groundwork that paid off in lines like "I have seen the gates of heaven... and I have too many legs."  But again, I think I liked that so much because it was basically about the Welsh bloke.

It was sometimes very well written though.  One of the cleverest sit-com jokes I have ever seen was the centerpiece of one episode, where you saw the same party from the point of view of the male and then the female, shot pretty much scene for scene. The comedy revolving entirely around the fact that there was an ugly girl in the female version who simply didn't exist in the scenes as seen by the male, totally changing the meaning of the repeated dialogue when you realised that she was speaking too.

From the same writers as Black Books, another episode of Father Ted.

Father Ted - Escape from Victory part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_uSuqyQfR0)
Father Ted - Escape from Victory part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZgAfFfqFlQ)
Father Ted - Escape from Victory part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5A2BdHTaqU)
Father Ted - Escape from Victory part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7g_e0HH04o)

Speaking of Graham Linehan, the second series of The IT Crowd (http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/I/itcrowd/) is starting tonight.  It's a bit hit and miss but on the plus side it has Chris Morris in it and one of the main characters has been seen to wear a t-shirt with the 256th level of pac-man on it (http://www.errorwear.com/shirt-pacman.php).

Sports Night is what put Aaron Sorkin on the map I believe, and was actually quite funny with the main two characters (the two anchors) banter. However, the laugh track was definitely teh devil there. Too bad about Studio 60, it had potential... but too pretentious for my tastes.

As far as Black Books (funny at time, and mostly Bill Bailey, who is amazing) or Coupling (meh), if you even vaguely liked them I'd recommend Spaced (the guys from Shaun of the Dead, Simon Pegg and Nick Frost) and/or West Green Wing (a bit more surreal but quite funny). Both are actually very funny, and Spaced is some of the best TV (well technically DVD) I've ever watched.

Aside-- New poster, long time reader. Figured it would be safe enough to chime in on TV shows.

--Edit: Sorry had Sorkin on the brain that is supposed to be Green Wing.

30 Rock beats the crap out of Studio 60.

Go figure, the original ads for it looked like un-funny and ass. Now that I am over in the land of Kilts, I see less current US TV... someone native to the UK explain what the hell is up with Sky's obsession over the Simpsons and Family Guy. Funny stuff, but several episodes back-to-back nightly is a bit much.

I always mean to watch 30 rock because the two episodes I have seen were really funny but I always, always forget.  That's okay though, the first season comes out on DVD September fourth so I will get to enjoy all those episodes without commercials.

I'm guessing they are going to start Lost much later than normal because season three doesn't come out until December, usually they release them before the next season airs.

Am not!

This thread needs a Darth Homer. Wait, what thread is this again?

(http://figures.nohomers.net/Customs/Custom_Homer_Vader.JPG)

Spaced is genius.  Pure, simple, unadulterated genius.

confirm

Anyone see anything on the intartubes about a young man dying of inhalation abuse? I'm curious as to where Grunk went.