f13.net

Home virtual reality on PS3 + PS3 Eye webcam chat + legions of teenaged/college/desperate guys with PS3s = Webcam whores using Home as a fertile ground for finding 'clients'.

My math for predicting the future is much better than that of Reed Richards.

I'll be using Home as a virtual Cherie Roberts shrine myself.

Edit: That wasn't funny.

Oh, don't be too hard on yourself. We don't have much to work with here, man.

Best to just talk about pr0n I say.

But how would you pay the ho? I don't remember there being a mechanism for money transfers on the PS3.

I had to google to see who Cherie Roberts is. Nice choice, Stray.

The hand of Paypal appears in all things.  I imagine the ho would give the John a paypal account to send a 'donation' to, John pays Paypal, ho gets confirmation of payment, ho takes off clothes.  So far as I'm aware, the PS3 keeps no pesky logs or similar data trail to be found by wives/mothers/etc, and Sony's been billing the PS3 Eye as a top-notch high-resolution camera, pair that up with a HDTV for widescreen webcam whore paradise.

This is sure to happen.  And I guarantee that even if it doesn't happen enough to be considered commonplace, it'll happen enough to be picked up by the media and spun into panicmongering.

Oh, so you were talking about pr0n after all. ;)

By "clients" I thought you meant it was going to be used by umm...people like that guy "Morgan". Forgive me, I was drunk.



Anyhow, I doubt it'll be that big of a deal. Home will probably just be a place for gamers. Sure, it has all the trappings of a 3D Myspace -- but it isn't going to be that.

Yeah, pr0n.  My understanding of webcam whore-ism was that it was women taking off their clothes on webcam for money while talking dirty to men who have to pay women over the internet to see boobs in real-time.

Yeah, I don't know wtf I was thinking. Just pay attention to the Cherie Roberts bit, I guess.

But again, I really don't see a bunch of webcam girls seeing the PS3 as being worth their time...Or money. I mean... HDTV/PS3/accessories is expensive junk. And not even mainstream junk. And most of those chicks don't make any money. That's why they're webcam whores, after all. Secondly, it isn't going to be popular enough to get that kind of attention.

Or maybe I'm just out of the loop. I haven't kept up with games in a couple of months. Did I miss something? Is the Playstation 3 finally going to take off or what? ;)

The hardware isn't all that great of an expense, and hey, on top of being a revenue stream it also doubles as a bitchin' TV!  A win-win for our webcam girls.  What's the point of taking off clothes for money if you can't spend it on HDTVs?

And with this target audience, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.  Drop onto Home with a female avatar, chat up some guys, type some come-ons to them, offer to talk to them on video chat, then just happen to mention that if they Paypal you fifty bucks, you'll do whatever they want for half an hour.  Two jobs a day on weekdays only and you're getting $26,000 a year.  If I were female, twenty, and utterly amoral, you could damn well bet that I'd jump at it.  There were people whoring themselves out on The Sims Online, for heaven's sake; it really doesn't take much of a communications medium before someone thinks, 'Hmm.  I bet I could make lots of money here...'

And one week later:

"Tonight on Dateline: Is YOUR child being SEDUCED by PLAYSTATION PROSTITUTES?  See what REALLY goes on online, what SONY doesn't want YOU to KNOW!"

Admittedly, the only webcam ho's I've seen have been on Jerry Springer and that EQ2 forum chick (defiledbeauty or whateverthe fuck she called herself), and while I can't say much about the EQ2 chick, most of them ho's in Jiirrry's show don't look like they're affording a PS2 anytime soon. Big difference between a $500 machine of doom and a $10 webcam, after all.

Now, I want my Springer beads!

Does the PS3 have a web browser, so that all the paypal and such can be handled on the system?

I still laugh at cam whores though.

Yes it does.

If the camwhore on PS3 becomes big business maybe they could do a commercial tie-in with that TV show Heroes with the camwhore character.

How is this different from the 360 web cam?  I have a message with a picture of tits on my 360 and I wasn't even trying.

I'm clearly doing something wrong.

Why would one spend $600 on a PS3 to do what one could on a cheaper PC for, you know, cheaper? The PS3's sales are hardly going to make it an attractive platform when PC's which can display webcam ho's are more prevalent across the board and likely will be for the entire lifecycle of the PS3?

Maybe I'm tired of tinkering with my PC.  I wanted to play GalCiv II last night and had to fuck around with it for 45 minutes, finally getting it to work with a reboot after applying an update to my printer drivers.  Still not really sure what the problem was, and I almost updated ForceWare.  Probably need to do that anyway, my videos are now looking very rough for some reason.  Other than some controller problems, the PS3 works all the time.  It's not issue-free but it's a far cry from a PC.  Works better than the 360 by a nice margin as well.

If I had a $600 PC, I would imagine that I would just have to be content with a webcam for entertainment.  If I was limited to spending, say, $700 on something with a webcam, I figure I'd go with the PS3.

Over the weekend, schild asked me if I regretted the Wii.  I said it's hard to regret $250.  Later I was thinking, of all the systems I spent money on this past refresh cycle, the one I think I might actually regret spending on is the PC.

Oh, Nix... you just need better friends.

The more features you start to add to consoles, the more they just turn into dumbed down PCs. On the PS3 and XBox you can now do most things people do on PCs for entertainment; watch movies, browse the web, play games.

The difference is that the console is locked into its hardware completely. As more people switch from PC to console, the less developers are enclined to innovate, since they are constrained by the hard coded requirements for the console in question.

I know people here really like consoles because they allow the user to simply plug in and play instantly. The unspoken cost of such luxury is the narrowing down of possibilities open to game designers, not to mention a less educated end user populace.

I read an article the other day praising Generation Y for being more tech-savvy than Gen X. The explanation? More Gen Y people own blackberries and IPods than GenXers. If that thinking prevails, I despair for our nation.

Sometimes technology wears on my soul.  I suppose I am Gen X since I hate that term.  That said, I do have both BB and iPod, and they have their uses.  Thing is, I am surrounded by tech and I find it's pretty damn nice to go hide somewhere that I can only hear wind and wildlife.  I have been trying to make games run on my PC since my 386-16 and I feel no shame in saying I'm tired of that.

There's another way to look at the Rise of the Console, and that is simply that the garage-programmer could have a rebirth as the "big names" go console.  PC gaming will never die but could return to the niche roots as EA and Ubisoft abandon the platform.  Magic 8-Ball says: Future uncertain.  However, if you are just some shmuck that wants to make a game, the PC is the cheapest and easiest route as far as I can tell.  Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic.

Don't get me wrong; my lack of faith doesn't extend to 99% of F13 readership, simply because for the most part, regardless of generation, we're all fairly computer literate. But that 20-odd year old 'administrative assistant' that puts on airs because she has the latest gadgets yet can't manage to resize IE font scale makes me weep.

No way, everything is about me!

I understand.  Those people are the ones buying Wiis and two-button dance pads, therby killing Zelda, Mario and Samus.

But see, you miss the point of technology. Technology is supposed to make our lives EASIER. It's supposed to allow us to do more things or do hard things easier. See the upgrades from a shovel to a gigantic earth mover. PC users have for too many years trained themselves to be slaves to the way PC's do things, stupid things such as creating auotexec.bat files just to play a goddamn video game. It shouldn't have to be that way. One shouldn't need a fucking degree to entertain oneself, nor should have really have to train oneself to do a simple thing like make a phone call while in a moving car. Blackberries and IPods have flourished and become mainstream because they don't require retraining, they just work. Which is also why video games have only just become such big business with the emergence of the mass market console in the PS2.

Being a hobbyist is fine for PC users, but most people just see tools they don't want to have to devote their lives to in order to use.

I applaud advances in technology that let the end user have an easier time of it. I don't think we all need to know Linux to operate in the world. But when people start thinking they're tech savvy simply because they own an ipod, its the equivalent of a ditch digger thinking he's an agricultural engineer. That is the problem.

As far as gaming is concerned, PC technology used to be so far ahead of console technology that Zelda never threatened those of us who preferred MS Flight Simulator 1. Nowadays, the lines are getting rather blurry, with AoC claiming they're making an XBox version of an MMO. The market for PC games is shrinking considerably as people gravitate to where the games are, which is consoles. The problem with this is that as far as I can see, PCs are far more flexible platforms for developers to work with, and leaves them more creative options. A static console system, not so much. The end result is a stagnation in creative use of technology, simply because market forces corral developers into using only the tools that'll work with a console market.

I hope I'm just being chicken little, but history suggests otherwise. Significant advances in gaming have, to my knowledge, always occurred on the PC first, wether its Meridian 16 or HalfLife. If you shut down that market entirely, who will invest any capital into developing games on flexible systems?

You're being a nervous nelly. PC Gaming has not been the exclusive home of innovative gaming, nor will innovative gaming go away. PC gaming is becoming, as it should, a niche market. And it should revel in that, focusing on digital distribution above all else. The EBGameSTops of the world have forsaken you. Fuck them, you don't need them.

The sooner PC gaming embraces the niche, the better.

As for consoles stagnating innovation, Grand Theft Auto 3 disagrees with you, as do a host of other games.

I'm sorry, I just don't think PC gaming is going to die.  It's just going to go back to the independents.  Maybe it's sad that the gaming equivalent of the Hollywood film industry is moving to consoles, but I don't really think it's a terrible tragedy.  Console ports to PC are a terrible tragedy, however.

There are plenty of innovative console titles, unfortunately you have to dig through trash to find the treasure.

Well, if this happens it might drive the PS3 sales up.

Why would PS3s be fertile ground for camwhores?  Simple, PS3 owners have enough disposable income to buy a PS3, and the demographics lean towards their being male and young and stupid enough (or old and desperate enough) to pay cash to see a naked woman.  Plus with Home you get the advantage of an easy way to meet potential customers.

Yeah, I've always hated the lack of innovation on consoles.  Guitar Hero, Katamari, Odin Sphere, Shadow of the Colossus, Dead Rising, GrimGrimoire, Ico, Okami, Calling All Cars, Trauma Center, Cookin Mama, Bully, Wii Sports, upcoming stuff like Eye of Judgement...  those games all started out on the PC right?

Hey, you forgot Culdcept and Disgaea/FFT.

Disgaea and FFT are great games despite their innate animeness (Im an ex otaku and bitter about it, ok?), but they are about as innovative as a rock.

I guess Fire Emblem, Langrisser, the AD&D Gold Box series, and Shining Force never happened or something?

Or Ultima 3's combat system for that matter..

But the whole PC game and system situation is why I went Mac.  And I seem to have missed a total of 4 games in 18 months, 2 of which will run modestly well on my Windows laptop anyhow.
(Trackmania United, Neverwinter Nights 2, Dawn of War Expansions, and GalCiv 2.)

I got sick of fucking with a computer constantly to play games and go to forums to bitch about games and nerd stuff.

As to the virtual whoring?  Maybe if it was Xbox 360 but how many people are buying PS3s anyhow?   :-P

I don't know.  I'd give FFT points for the job system, and some of the job classes (like calculator).

You might be right about the PS3 but I still don't see how the 360 is excluded from your criteria.  Doesn't anyone else know someone with titties and a 360?  I don't know anyone with tittes and a PS3... not any women anyway.  I'm sure someone would Paypal for nudity on the PS3 but I just can't see it being an epidemic... but I was wrong about Brain Age too.  Maybe Home will be the new MySpace.

I also agree with Jain in that we don't really know much about the PS3 demographic at this point.  Maybe "hardcore gamers" in the real sense, not the Halotard sense.  Who else would pay $600 for a PS1/PS2 emulator with upscaling, hard disk, Wi-Fi, and BluRay?

Also: Why would you want to pay for whores on a PS3 when you can do it on a PC for, you know, cheaper?

I think you will find it hard to argue that Disgaea isn't innovative, their character development system is borderline absurd, I don't know any other games which has taken it to that extreme.

Hey, I'm more than happy to be proved wrong, but my point was to point out really revolutionary changes in how we play on digital games. I mentioned Meridian 16 (instead of UO and EQ) for the simple reason is that they were the first notable MMO that introduced new technology that inspired the whole genre. I mentioned HalfLife for similar reasons.

I'd be content to concede that Guitar Hero was a cool advance of sort, and that the Wii is also groundbreaking, but what I'm saying is that once a platform is out, developers are constrained by what that particular company, wether its Sony or Nintendo or Microsoft, has in mind for any future developments, and since that's often a guarded secret, innovation is limited to what those three or four companies have in mind for the future.

With PC systems, since there's more flexibility in what's going on, developers have a broader pallet to work with. One can argue that in that case, we're constrained by what Nvidia and ATI are going to do in the next generation of video cards, so in a sense, that too is a locked down market, so maybe its all the same.

People more engaged in the industry, of which we have quite a few in f13, should probably speak up and correct any misimpressions I'm harboring, since as I've said, my only real concern is the stagnation of revolutionary development of digital entertainment.

Isn't that what I just said? PC Gaming will become a niche market, which is where it should be. Niche markets are where indies thrive. The only PC games in stores will be the ones that are by the big boys (the EA's, the Biowares, etc.) and those which have had mad success in the niche market.

The PC market doesn't need the video-game equivalent of the Hollywood film industry. That kind of incestuous clusterfuck doesn't work well with innovation.

But as I said, there aren't nearly enough people with PS3's to make it a great market, whereas PC users are more numerous by orders of magnitude, and also have a high proportion of folks with disposable income and a thirst for titties. The ho's go where the scrilla is, y0, and there's more scrilla on the PC.

It is.  I passed on the explicit "I agree with Haemish" part since I do tend to go on and on.  Won't happen again.  Summation: we agree with each other and both disagree with Kitsune.

I don't exactly agree with the "indies belong on the PC" part but that may be because I don't like to label or pigeonhole people, rather I see the PC as The Place To Go when making an indie game because you can get the tools for free and basic PC is shit-cheap.  However for the purposes of this thread, I agree with you.

Thankfully, all 3 consoles are starting to open up their architecture to indy development in their own ways, so devs won't be completely pigeonholed into PC development. I just think that for business purposes, the PC is where that belongs because it's a platform without restriction from some monolithic hardware body like Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo. And it's more open in terms of uploading content for purchase or download. All 3 of the consoles have some rather onerous restrictions on content, from Microsoft's subscription plan to Nintendo's rules about getting an ESRB rating. I'm sure Sony has some kind of restriction for PSN, though I've no idea what they are.

I tend to assume people disagree with me when they post. I should adopt a bit more "Kneel before Zod" posture, I suppose.  :angryfist:

We need a Kneel before Zod emoticon.

Well, that's the problem isn't it?  The console manufacturers are treating indie game development (what was once referred to as just "game development") as Serious Business.  Some people might just want to make fun games instead of become a tiny wart on the money-grubbing ass of Big Business, which is what you do if you want to make a console game.

Agreeing again, by the way.

I guess that's a good enough segue......n conjunction with PC and console developer Pronto Games, GarageGames also announced the availability of Torque licensing for the Nintendo Wii. (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=14708)

My big issue with this part is the fact that we seem as a game market to be focused on how pretty a game looks.  That great graphics and sounds somehow are the measuring stick which all games are judged.  How great it looks on some new $600 card matters jack shit to me as I don't shell out big bucks to wave my e-peen over some name.  I want to play a fun game (fun being subjective).  If the game is pretty, that's nice but I really don't care if it isn't fun to play.  I can understand it's not possible to really rate "fun" on a scale of 1-10 and how pretty the game looks and sounds is considerably easier, but that doesn't tell me if the game is in any way an enjoyable experience once I get tired of looking at it.

Distribution is the big problem, not tools. That is why the PC has been the big indie dev platform - if you can put up a download somewhere or copy shit onto a disc you can distribute your game.

The first XNA/Yaroze/Wii Ware thing to take off will be the one that approaches that. Mark my words - it will have nothing to do with the system or the tools, and everything to do with the distribution model. (Thus spake Nostrodamus)

Stephen, I don't see any details about Wii Ware stuff on the GG site. In general I can't find any information about it at all, from a developer perspective.

Selby,

That's an issue that affects both console and PC games alike; originality in actual game play is not dependent on technology constraints as much as it is on the fostering of imagination on the part of the producers. That's been the beef with EA for years.

I can virtually guarantee that Fallout 1 will still be considered a better game than 90% of the drek produced in the next decade, regardless of what technological marvels the world will bring. I'm addressing advances in technology being hampered by hardware constraints imposed by console distributors and video card distributors.

It's a three-party scenario, and we don't know much more about the whole process than anyone else does unfortunately. Once Nintendo decides to release specific details, we'll be able to get more information out as well.

And I do agree with your statement regarding distribution to a degree, although one of the big advantages of having any cross-platform engine is that you can go ahead and "bet on the come", meaning that indies can develop a game on their PC's, and know that the porting process, if they are awarded dev slots/purchase dev kits (hardware) and license platform layers, is that much easier.

But, you are absolutely correct--none of the console platforms have streamlined commercial distribution for small studios/indiesat all, and no one really knows where it is going.

Microsoft is poising to release GSE 2.0 (their XNA stuff), and they seem to be releasing pre-GameFest hints that a process to XBLA for commercial distribution of XNA games is coming, but it's all speculation at this point.

All I can really say with any degree of certainty (not being sly here, we really don't have any info) is that while it's not perfect yet (indie distribution to consoles), it really does seem to be iteratively getting better, and at least two of the three console providers are taking steps. Ultimately, I do feel that it will eventually be at least somewhat on par with the penetration capability the large studios have, but it won't be for the "everyman indie"--just like garage bands making it big and signing a record deal, it will take extreme talent and dedication to get an indie game on to any console.

So then, we can expect to start paying $100 - $500 for a PC, because who needs a $2000 machine if there are no games to play on it, NVidia to go bankrupt, and Microsoft to be the only force behind the continuation of Moore's Law for CPU's and graphics cards through bloated OS'es?

You can already buy PC's for $500 if you aren't too picky. Nvidia won't go bankrupt, but seeing the writing on the wall was one reason they tried to get the contract for the original X-Box's graphics. The force behind the continuation of Moore's law isn't Microsoft, it's business everywhere, especially industries that use the Internet or graphics-processor intensive operations like architecture, engineering, etc.

PC's aren't built to be mainstream entertainment devices, they are hobbyist tools. When a family can get decent web browsing/email/media streaming/games/word processing/checkbook balancing in one hardware-locked, plug-n-play package for $400 or less, they will.

Nope.  The iPod, cell phones, all of these devices are continually getting smaller and smaller and requiring greater and greater processing power and memory.  Moore's law isn't going to go away unless all of the industry decides to not follow it (which isn't going to happen).