f13.net

This makes me happy. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070620/ap_on_re_us/crushed_hot_rods_2)

(http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/7025/punksst7.jpg)

That....is.....awesome.

Ricer tears lubricate my scrotum.

They may not be Fast anymore, but I am sure they are probably Furious.

Rice Cakes!

You sir, are my hero for the day. Hell yes!

That entire story brightened my day considerably.

Meow meow, we like ricer tears.

Definately a big "Can I get a big amen!" to that.

As a former autox'er and drag racer who has *never* lit them up on the street, I wholeheartedly support anything that can done to deter street racing of any sort.  I *have* done many a burnout or donut in an empty parking lot, but never raced.  

Although one of them did have a great point of stripping them down and auctioning off the parts for charity.

I used to love street racing when I was a kid, though I never got to be the driver.  I am sad that my children will never get to enjoy it without fear of a brutal car crushing.

Oh wait.  I don't have any children!  I PWND MYSELF!

"It will never go away," Maldonado said. "If it's in your heart, you will continue to do it until you can't anymore."

LOL!

Enough said.

Some may argue that having children would be a worse pwning of yourself. And Righ. And the poor kids  :-P

If my Galant ever gets crushed I'm going on a shooting spree.

Is it sooped up with illegal parts? If so, I'd stock up on rifles soon.

Only one thing that makes me uneasy about that article.. they crushed some guy's car upon suspicion of having stolen parts, without any sort of due process. Or, it could have been the shitty way the article was written.

It sounds like if the parts had ground off vin# on them they were impounded. And there really is no legitimate reason for a major part (engine, trans) to have the VIN# ground off unless it is hot.

But I would imagine the parts were proven to be not on the up and up as you don't hear anyone suing for wrongful destruction of property.

Fell off? It doesn't sound like any VIN number I know if, but if it was just a sticker...

It's not a Honda and I don't really street race, so I don't think I'm at risk.

But the answer to that question is a yes. Nothing stolen or VIN ground off, though. VIN doesn't match on the trans, engine, shell, one door, uhh transfer case, rear diff. List goes on.

Fuck Yeah, cry more ricer kids.

Gotta love how the one kid laments about how he and HIS MOM spent $10k+ on his car.

And the other kid who thinks that after dumping Only 10k into his Integra, he can beat Corvettes and Ferraris? lolz. Big Lolz.

It might be able to beat the Corvette, but only the Corvette wouldn't explode after the race.

Eh? Not of any sort surely?

http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans/pages/accueil_gb.html

http://www.iomtt.com/

http://www.acm.mc/gpm/gpm_main.php

I think it was people that had been arrested for street racing who were *also* suspected of receiving stolen parts (or stole it themselves).  I'd have to reread the article.

The article specifically mentions removed VINs and whatnot on the parts.


So, basically, in order to get the court order to make rice pudding, they had to meet a burden of proof that demonstrates the stuff is hot.

Blue car with red rims? Thank god they crushed all that shit. Nasty. If you're going to spend like 15K on a car you might as well just import a god damned RX-7. At least then you'd be racing a car worth having crushed. Not just another integra or civic.

Just law enforcement grandstanding trying to make a point.

I don't condone street racing and hate ricers with a passion, but I do not support any form of property forfeiture.  I also do not trust the police to know the little nuances of my cars (like where the VIN partials are or are not) and then try and give me a lecture about "illegal modifications" to my vehicles.  A previous owner had the transmission replaced at AAMCO and now the transmission has a different VIN.  Are they going to impound my car over a busted tail light and then disassemble the car to find out the origins of all of the parts?  Surely the cops have better things to do.

But I bought it from my dad and here is the receipt!!!!!

Thanks for the tip.  We're gonna bust your old man for dealing in illegal parts.

You do not own anything that has been stolen.  If you buy stolen goods, it's still not yours.  It's a needed practice in order to 1) reimburse the actual owner where possible and 2) make the black market a no-win for everyone involved, at least as much as it can be.  When you put pressure on buyers, you reduce the demand for stolen goods, which makes it less profitable to fence crap, so less stuff gets stolen. 


If there is reason to suspect you're filling your car up with illegal shit, yes.  Dropping a rebuilt engine in a worn out car isn't unheard of (hell, I've done it).  Putting $10k into a car to make it an obvious rice racer is a different category. 

How exactly am I supposed to prove everything on my car wasn't stolen?  Is it assumed that everything on a car is stolen and the onus is on the owner to carry documentation stating it isn't?  I have to keep receipts from all of the shops who have worked on my cars over the last 35 years to prove they didn't fence someone's engine when I was trusting them to get the engine through lawful sources?  My cars don't have full VINs stamped anywhere on them (just a partial, plant code & the last 6 digits).  I also have cars that have VINs in the door jam as opposed to on the dash (which younger law enforcement officers are not always aware of).  Am I required to keep a receipt and do a title search on every car in the salvage yard I pull a motor, transmission, or rear end out of to make sure it isn't stolen?  I personally don't want some jerk who is having a bad day seizing my car because he wants to make an example out of me or get a good photo opportunity of another "illegal race car" getting crushed.

How is it different?  Rice rockets usually just add a stupid coffee can fart pipe on the end, ground effects that are rarely ever matched, and maybe adjust the computer.  Others come from the factory that way.  And we expect the police to be able to know?

The People's Republic of California states that ANY engine modification is a violation of smog ordinances and illegal (even if it makes the car run cleaner).  Where is the line drawn?  I re-jet my carb to get it to run slightly richer and perform better on todays shitty gas, is that illegal?  What about adjusting the distributor timing?  I put a hotter camshaft in, put in a forged bottom end, etc all of which make it perform better than it did in 1972 AND run cleaner.  Where is the line drawn?  I dumped 10k into one car with a rebuilt engine, transmission, working AC, etc.  Does that put me in the rice racer "hot rod" category and I deserve to be pulled over and harassed because I am suspected of filling up the car with illegal shit?  Is it dollar amount or is it how clean and shiny the car is based on age?  How can they tell short of getting impounding the car and taking it in "for inspection" at their facility?  You can't see any of the VIN locations on my car without jacking it up and cleaning off areas that are normally dirty, hardly a quick inspection on the side of the road.

Like I said, I don't support forfeiture of assets based on suspicions of the officer who pulls me over for an out tail light or out license plate lamp.  And I don't carry a folder full of documentation stating the origins of every part in the car either.

You're acting like they're pulling people over, towing the cars and crushing them inside a few hours. How about examining it in reality, instead of the "rar rar, gub'ment suxorz" mentality.

No!  ;-)

Quite honestly, if you're not doing street races, you have nothing to fear. I know it's fun to assume the worst, but in some situations, it's not even that bad. Given this specific instance, you don't really have much, if anything, to worry about. Cops will be cops, but I highly doubt that without cause to  believe that you're street racing, you'll ever see your car crushed.

Besides, partial VINs are wayyyy different than shit missing a VIN, etc.

Believe it or not, cops are a bit more sophisticated these days. 

Not in Connecticut!

I think crushing cars is stupid, its wasteful and ineffective. This won't stop street racers, they will simply get new car and will start over. If you really get good at identifying moded cars racers will drive stock cars that do not require any major mods... Go after street racers while they street race and stop nailing people that just like to fiddle with their cars.

With enough money you can get cars that are way past anything street racers mod out of their cars, and it will be 100% OEM street legal. So why single out aftermarket mods?

Last but not least - none of the crushed cars in the story were confiscated as a direct result of street racing, police suspect they did it and used loopholes to crush their cars.

Sinij, I don't think you understand how it works for these kids. Hell, a good portion of them are getting the car and money for mods from their parents, so the kid may not simply be able to go out and start over.

These are not simply people that like to "fiddle with their cars." These are the kind of idiots that race streetlight to streetlight in the cars their parents bought, with all kinds of stupid mods that hurt more than help the car's performance.

Also, these kids will not drive stock; it's not "street" at all to drive a car that looks stock.

Lastly, California is pretty infamous for its strict car mod laws; these kids are knowingly breaking the law, so they have no reason to cry when their little shitboxes get crushed.

Exactly, anyone that knows cars would never do the shit they are doing to keep a well-maintained vehicle. Look at the ages of the people being caught in the article, how many of them are even over the age of 20? I was a fucking moron at that age, and I had a stock GT Mustang. I honestly don't care if crushing the cars stops it or not. It's pure awesome to watch somebody who has no grasp of reality get shit on by the man. Fuck you, ricers. You get what you deserve. Race legally.

Oh you are so arrogant what with that elegant top hat worn at a jaunty angle and those slick dance moves.  Damn you Monkeys!

Do not mock the simian population, zombie woman!

 :-P

"race streetlight to streetlight" is key here, anything else, like aftermarket mods, is irrelevant. Lets say fad would change and it become 'in' thing to do it in 100% OEM sport cars... would it be any less harmful or any less prone to crashes? They destroyed cars not for what these kids did, but for what these cars represent... and that is wrong.

The article is poorly written as it does not talk about the process that law enforcement used. Several of those kids were quoted as saying that they did in fact street race in those cars, so chances are there were eyewitnesses who snitched these guys' names, and they impounded the cars under the mod-laws since they would have to catch the racing in the act to prosecute charges on it.

More examples of Sinji's lack of reading comprehension:


So let's see...this guy was caught racing.  And he had stolen parts in his car. This took me 15 seconds of skimming to find. I have helpfully added the bold text to help you zero in on the important parts, because I know that it's tough to parse a whopping four sentences.

Now here's a guy who admitted to being a ricer racer, but was actually nailed for a bad taillight and then, you know, stolen parts.  The operative part there is STOLEN since, you know, one would assume those parts are illegal to have due to being, oh, I dunno.....stolen.


So perhaps this guy wasn't caught racing.  He was caught with stolen parts in his car.  Should they have let the car go because he wasn't caught while racing?  Hell, at very least, they should have taken the stolen parts out and left him to figure out the rest.  Personally, I think crushing was cooler.

It's nice to know that you have an opinion on everything and all, but read the fucking article before saying that it doesn't say what it actually says.

The third kid the article mentions was pulled over at a place where kids tend to street race. My guess is that he was not there accidentally. 

Do you think he was racing ?

Way article was written its hard to tell what exactly happened. As to stolen parts - read previous posts. I don't trust officer to make that determination after pulling someone over for broken tail light.

I'm sure they all did street racing at some point and in karmic sense deserved it, but I also think that not sufficient reason to skip due process by using loopholes.

I polish my windshield with your tears.

Street legal Friday nights at the local track: http://www.missionraceway.com/mrpsched/mrpschedule.htm (http://www.missionraceway.com/mrpsched/mrpschedule.htm)
 = Good

Dead bystanders due to Street Racing: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060528/crash_fatal_060528/20060528?hub=CTVNewsAt11 (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060528/crash_fatal_060528/20060528?hub=CTVNewsAt11)
 = Bad

Ricers getting the car they built with Daddy's money, and then proceeded to race through 60k zones at 140k, turned in to a rice-cake?
 = Cry me a fucking river, noob.

How about being pulled over for broken taillight on your way to "Friday nights at the local track" and getting your car crushed since your custom gear box does not match vin numbers on your car?

I don't think cops should be prosecuting anyone based on what they drive but rather on how they drive it.

The whole process of getting the court order to crush the car requires a hearing, and meeting the appropriate burden of proof.  It's not like Officer Bob pulls someone over and then has the car towed and insta-crushed.

Seriously, you're making mountains out of ricer tears here.

If your tranny has a valid, non-matching VIN# I am sure you will have no problems. But if it has had the VIN# doctored or removed, it is as red a flag as the ones hanging at the Nuremburg Rallies that it is sketchy and the cops will probably start the crush-o-matic proceedings.

Also, cops don't prosecute anyone.

Let me run this down for you in numbers:

1) The guy who got pulled over for a broken taillight had a hot ENGINE. His fucking engine in the car was stolen. It wasn't something as simple as a gear box, and don't even bother trying to tell me that's accidental. And what are they going to do, take the engine out and sell it to charity? Hell no.

2) He probably got pulled over for having a broken taillight, but that was just the probable cause since it was obvious he's a racer. I mean how many ricer upgrade jobs have you seen on the roads that are subtle?

3) Cops have always targetted people based on what they drive, and to think otherwise is purely naive. There's a reason we have laws on what is street-legal simply because we don't want people flying around the roads in deathmachines trying to outrace police or each other. Not to mention the fact that these machines were basically chop-shop nightmares.

And lets not forget some of the popular mods the kids like to do actually Degrade performance, making the cars More Dangerous to drive than they already were.

And seriously Sinij, the cars were not instantly destroyed on sight.


About the kid with the tranny that he supposedly bought legally...on the off chance that he Did legally buy it from his father's garage, he would probably have legal recourse to at least recoup That money since he was sold illegal goods unknowingly. I guess that's the price you pay when you buy parts from shady sources.

But since it's his dad, I doubt he's gonna sue to get the money back.

So we've determined that Sinij has a car full of meticulously laundered stolen parts?

Yes they do.  The cops have a Rice Press on standby at all times.  If you or your car look Asian they Uncle Ben your ass right there on the street corner.  BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT COPS DO.  Oh, and the news reporting this finds it not at all odd. 

I think mostly we've determined that Sinij has an affinity for a culture that most people here wouldn't mind seeing crushed into oblivion. Other than that, it's just fun to chuckle at stupid teens getting their dicks stamped on by the gub-ment. Welcome to America, bitches.

And I also had a good chuckle at Roac. Capital sarcasm.

No I hate street racers and you won't catch me driving anything even slightly rice. My rides are 735i BMW, Porsche 911 and few other classic cars. Most 15+ year cars that I only drive during the summer but all in top-notch shape. My daily ride is 100% stock FX35. I don't street race. I occasionally modify my cars, but mostly to tune suspension and brakes to improve handling. I occasionally take my cars for a fast spin on a race track but even there don't push them much in order to avoid causing mechanical damage.

Once I had to go fight in court off-the-wall tickets for imaginary mods my car supposedly had. I won but had to  prove my innocence, since in court ignorant cop who has no clue still considered 'expert witness'. It cost me considerable time and money (to pay mechanics familiar with my car to appear as expert witness on my side) to not have to pay tickets and to avoid being forced to take my classic car to 'certified shop' to have it vandalized by unqualified mechanics to get it brought to a standard that does not even apply to it.

So I *know* that system does not always works as intended, as such I strongly advocate to go directly after street racing rather than providing more tools for bad cops to abuse. You busted street racing, even if you drove your grandma's CrownVic, your car get crushed, otherwise get the fuck away from my ride.

Actually, you didn't get violated by THE MAN, you had due process.  You won, because you managed to disprove the state's case. Quite honestly, all you had to do was disprove one element of whatever they were charging you with -- sometimes it's even easier than that. That you spent the money bringing in mechanics was your choice (and if you really own those cars, you can afford it). Odds are you didn't NEED those witnesses. Did you hire an attorney (or at least consult with one)? Heck, they're not always needed for a ticket situation, but many will consult for free. Good ones will even tell you if you really need them or not.

Of course, without knowing what you were specifically ticketed for, it's hard to say any of that with 100% certainty.

Regardless, you saw the system working as intended. Cop ticketed you, you contested it, you then got a result. That's how the process works. My wife and I had our cars towed once for a parade. There was no notice given to us the night before when we parked our cars (11pm and 1am) that there would be a parade, nor that the place we were parking was going to be a tow zone. We showed up to contest the towing and get our cash back. The city couldn't prove when they posted the temporary no parking zone signs. We won. It is simply how the system works.

But what about stuff like seized money under the US drug laws? All they need to do is SUSPECT you, no proof needed, and your money/car/whatever is history.

It is better to pay expert mechanics to maintain and repair your car than to attend court. I pushed my TVRs hard on track, even having instructors teach me how to reach the limits. Your 911 is a high performance vehicle designed to be driven hard. Go blow the cobwebs out of it.

If it was brand new or I was first owner - sure. I can't bring to punish it after painstakingly restoring it to pristine condition.

As to court - its easy to assume you are in the right and all you need is to show up and tell your story to the judge. Most ticket proceedings judges are highly annoyed when you don't take prosecutor's deal and actually spend court time trying to prove something instead of making guilty claim to slightly reduced infraction. Also if cop show up his word is considered expert witness testimony, meaning judge will choose to believe cop over your word.

Good thing that's not true, because that would suck. All of the federal criminal forfeiture (including the sections relating to drugs) require conviction. There is also civil forfeiture, but even that requires that the stuff be traceable to the commission of or profits from a crime.

I know it's hip to believe that the government is teh debul and all, but in this case, it's just not true. The government isn't going around seizing people's shit willy-nilly because they "think" you did something wrong.

O RLY? (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/drugs/special/forfeiture.html) Has to be traceable? No, just has to be suspect.

Whatever. Pointing to failings of the system doesn't define the system. It points out, wait for it, where the system needs to be fixed. Your example of civil forfeiture incident to lawful arrests (which is a broad category and includes traffic stops) demonstrates a failing in the system, not the system working as intended. ETA -- The civil forefeiture statute specifically states that the stuff seized must be traceable to or derived from the illegal activity. Painting it as "ZOMG THE COPS JUST TAKE YOUR SHIT WHENEVER THEY WANT" is dishonest at best. Moreover, it doesn't make criminal forefeiture the same thing. What it does do is point out that sometimes the system doesn't work.

How things are supposed to work is where I was coming from. Feel free to post more links to stories of the system failing, but don't try to make it sound like that's how the system is intended to work/always works.

Honestly, I can't help but have the 'zomg the gubmint is takin' our stuffs!' feeling...but I haven't seen it borne out in reality. I've known a lot of shady characters in my time (back when I was a shady character!), and I've never seen a forfeiture. Last year a friend got busted growing in his backyard (goddamned nosy neighbors plus stinky plants), but he didn't lose the house or anything.

Is there some felony component, perhaps?

My little brother got busted more than once with drugs in his car which never required more than going down to the impound lot and coughing up some dough to get it out.  They talk a mean game but that's all it is, talk.  If you buy into it and don't fight well then yeah, they keep your shit.

The legal proceedings of my brother and his gang of knuckleheads is enough to disprove pretty much every 'The MAN is out to get ya!" theory I've ever heard.  Any trouble they got was fully deserved.

Yep.  The statute for civil forefeiture is a bit convoluted, because it just refers to all of the section numbers that are subject to the forefeiture stuff. Generally, those crimes are felonies. Also, there's state forefeiture statutes that operate differently. Most people focus on the federal ones because, well, it's easier to generalize a system that operates nationwide than to do an in-depth study of the various and sundry state statutes.

Also, most of the forfeiture stuff is not required, just discretionary.