Take a picture once a day, whether you need to or not

[Engels]

Very nice!

[Khaldun]

I like the sand/glass shot a lot in particular.


Just back from a camping trip. Got some good blue hour shots--much easier to do when you're in a tent in a remote area!

[Stewie]

Love that shot Khaldun! The composition is especially great. I love the lines that lead the eye through to the center of the image and the over all feel.

Nice work

[RhyssaFireheart]

What an awesome shot, Khaldun!  Would you mind if I used it as a reference for an abstract?  It's giving me ideas that would work great in the current series of paintings I'm doing.

[Khaldun]

Sure, go ahead!

[RhyssaFireheart]

Thanks!

I'll post it somewhere here just to share.  It'll be a collaboration! ;)

[Samprimary]

i totally forgot this thread and had no idea it was still here and thriving and my host went down and left ads :(

[Count Nerfedalot]

Just back from a camping trip. Got some good blue hour shots--much easier to do when you're in a tent in a remote area!

Very nice shot, how long was the exposure?

[F13}  but, um, you set up a tent next to a highway and call it a remote area?  [/F13]

[apocrypha]

Very nice shot, how long was the exposure?

30 secs, f29, ISO100, Nikon D7100, 10-20mm lens at 16mm.

And very nice

[Khaldun]

There you go.

Tent is in the woods a ways from the road, but yeah, it's not the cannibal wilderness or anything.


One of the rare times I've gone up as far as f29, by the way--the word is that this introduces a softness that you don't want in a landscape, but I figured at this light, with trying to catch the light trails of the cars, etc., a bit of softness would actually be a good thing.

[Count Nerfedalot]

OK, I've had my heart set on an Olympus OM-D E-M1 mirrorless for like two years now and I had the cash from selling MTG cards, but then the A/C broke, and then a car, and then the microwave, and then the other A/C, and now the fridge and roof and other car, and ...   

I don't think I'm going to be dropping north of 2 grand on a camera and neccessaries for a few more years. I have no lenses to add to a body, except for a couple half-decent lenses from an ancient film Pentax with their weird proprietary and probably obsolete adapter, so I'm starting over with lenses too. So, Costco has a Nikon D7100 package with AF-S DX Nikkor 18-55mm VR II and AF-S DX NIKKOR 55-300mm VR Lens, 32GB SD Card, Camera Bag, and WU-1A Adapter for $1250.  I do mostly landscape and macro. So would the Nikon package be a decent deal? Anyone know if those lenses are at least half-decent or just crap or what? Am I going to feel like I wasted my money on a dead-end when I bump into some unexpected limits in 6 months or is this a good foundation for building on?  My biggest worry with it right now is the max 30 sec exposure as I'm interested in trying out some night sky stuff: shooting stars, fireworks, lightning - no telescope, so I'm not expecting to get the horsehead nebula or get a comet named after me or anything!. But 30 seconds doesn't seem like very long, is it?

I know there's a D7200 out, but that's like $50 less for the body only, no lenses, and only marginal improvements. And the D600 is noticeably sharper but that's another $200 more for body only and adding lenses puts me back over $2 grand. 

I think I'm going to get this, I'd just appreciate someone deeper in the moneypit (or more experienced at least) to tell me if it's stupid/obsolete/dead-end or yeah, good deal with room to grow.

[Lightstalker]

I've got a Rokinon 24mm lens and if I shoot longer than 20 seconds I get star trails, 30 seconds can be an age in night photography.  That said, when I was using a 10 year old Rebel with a kit lens I was up at 70-90 second exposures just trying to get stars in the shot at all.  Now I've jumped into a D810 with a 50mm and the above 24 and I can get stars in the city (still haven't stopped back the lens enough in practice to mitigate coma and astigmatism - need to go up to, or past, f/2.4 probably):


The light is from Issaquah and the 'clouds' are more smoke than anything else.  The original was super bright:




I'd probably start reading here:  Lonely Speck
What you need for your body is clean ISO range and what you need for your Lens is clear aperture (and lonely speck has a chart somewhere with most major lenses - as well as a formula for determining if any random lens is viable under your conditions and general how-to and what to expect for astrophotography).

[Mosesandstick]

One thing to remember is that at wider angles you can shoot longer, and narrower angles you're going to have less time. The easiest compromise might be trying to see if you can pick up a cheap prime or fast lens. I've always been a big fan of the Tokina 11-16 f/2.8. Which isn't that cheap, sorry!

You'll be surprised at the quality of the photos you can get from a standard DSLR and kit lenses nowadays. They'll take photos that look mostly the same as higher end lenses in 90% of situations. This is especially true for landscapes where you generally don't shoot wide open (at higher apertures). If you're trying to save money I would take a look at getting a cheaper DSLR, from what I remember all of the current Nikon lineup use the same sensor - the difference is mainly in the buffer, how many photos a second you can take, and the controls.

[Khaldun]

I don't think there's much difference between the d7100 and d7200, at any rate. I have seen some differences in basic quality between my d7100 and my old d3100, though--and I'm using the wireless sensor in the d7100 occasionally, which for me opens up a number of possibilities.

The lenses are really the big issue. I have to say that I'm loving my Sigma wide-angle to the point of overusing it (there are situations where my 50mm prime is really better for a particular landscape).  I tried some star trails this last trip and got a couple that were decent, frankly I just couldn't manage to stay up late enough (11pm-midnight) after a long day of hiking to get the 15-20 minute exposures that I really wanted to try.

[Count Nerfedalot]

How do you get a 15-20 minute exposure with a D7100? I thought its minimum shutter speed is 30 seconds? Or is there also a manual shutter mode that lets you keep it open as long as you want?

And yeah, I'll certainly be lusting after better lenses before too long, no matter what I get given my money limits! But I just can't afford to dive in the deep end now, and I'm basically starting from scratch. So I'm trying to find an affordable balance between "good enough" and "frustratingly short" and still be able to get back out and take some pictures while hoping not to sink too much money into another dead-end.

[Mosesandstick]

There should be a bulb mode that allows you to hold down the shutter for as long as you want, or you can use a remote or tether the camera.

My advice would be to think about the D5500 + more money for lenses, unless there's something about the D7200 that you really need or prefer.

[Khaldun]

Bulb mode, yes. That's pretty basic with any DSLR--my d3100 had a bulb mode too. You pretty much have to have a remote trigger or tether trigger to stop the exposure without having to touch the camera , since any camera shake will fuck a 30-minute bulb exposure completely.

[Lightstalker]

... You pretty much have to have a remote trigger or tether trigger to stop the exposure without having to touch the camera , since any camera shake will fuck a 30-minute bulb exposure completely.

I've never understood that.  Raise the mirror and remote trigger your 30 minute exposure... why?  If it is a 30 minute exposure how much light is coming in during that period of shaking?  You can walk through the frame holding lights and not show up (the lights will) so what kind of pixel peeping perfection do you have to be looking for in order to even detect that difference?  

I do have a remote trigger, mainly so I don't have to be physically at the camera when trying to paint with my headlamp, and some newer DSLRs will let you control the camera through wi-fi and an app on your phone so there is that coolness/convenience factor (for that "I don't want to get out of the tent to click the button" moment or to take a group photo with everyone in it).  But for an image quality argument, at least for me, I'd have to start doing a lot of other things better just to notice the difference - and I've got a lot of pixels to peep at.  I get concern about screwing up the focus in the dark and not realizing until X minutes later, but that's not casual contact with the shutter button.





In the first shot I packed in my camera but didn't account for the difference in temperature changing the infinity focus on my lens, it is actually quite out of focus.  In the second I forgot my tripod but got the focus right - hand triggered with the body sitting on a small pile of gravel adjusted to get the angle about right.  Those are 20 second exposures, any shutter shake would be more pronounced as it would impact much more of the total exposure time.

fixed images

[Merusk]

Your images didn't come through on the links.

You're right that for 30-min exposures it's not so much of a problem. It's been my experience that 3-5 second exposures for fireworks and the like, you get a lot of blur when not using them. The difference between pictures I've taken with my remote or using the timer and those I've taken by pushing the button myself is pretty marked.

I look at it as a 'best practice' thing. Be in the habit of using it and you develop a process you can enact quickly and accurately.

[Count Nerfedalot]

Well, I got the D7100 with the two kit lenses.  And I'm already in love. AND already shopping for a new lens. 

The Countess talked and supported me all the way through the anxiety of making a decision and spending the money, and when I said whichever way I jumped I was going to want new lenses before long she replied "Cool! Now I know what to get you for your birthday for the next few years!"  And then I told her the general price range of the lenses I'd want.   

  <- Me Her ->

But she still plans to do it and my birthday is in November. 

This thing has so many buttons and menus (the manual has 30 pages just showing and listing them all!) that it's going to take me a looong time to figure out what its limits are (and stretch my skills to the point of bumping in to them).  But it's already bumped me back out of lazy snapshot thinking and back into looking at things as a photographer, and I haven't even made it out of my backyard yet!

[Mosesandstick]

Congratulations, I'm still using a predecessor to the D7100, the D90 (6 years!), and they're lovely cameras. I'd recommend looking at the 35 f1.8, it's an amazing lens and great for people who are new to DSLRs.

A photo I actually took today for once!


Olive, tomato and rosemary focaccia 001 by Aled Moses, on Flickr

[Khaldun]

Good for you, I like my 7100 a lot.

Yes, probably on a 30-minute exposure, shutter shake isn't that big a deal, I guess, but I've certainly seen the impact at 10-sec, 15-sec, or on shots where I'm trying to focus stack a macro, so I have gotten superstitious.

Had an odd experience today of going to the local zoo and seeing a sign in an exhibit about a new baby animal they had in 2013 who is now a juvenile, and realizing with surprise that the picture of the baby animal was my picture. It's ok by me, but I guess I would have preferred they ask first just so I could get a slight bit of photographic ego, not the least because it was a damn hard photo to take (low light, mother was swinging around a lot, I was patient until the baby suddenly was really visible and they weren't moving).

[Paelos]

I want a slice of that bread and a big plate of olive oil with cracked pepper.

[Count Nerfedalot]

OK. Frame number 4 from walking around my backyard with the new camera this morning.


Is that pollen on the petals???!

Auto everything, hand held in a slight breeze, no post-proc, just converted from RAW to JPG and shrunk to desktop size. I think I'll be getting a subscription to the cloud based photoshop and lightroom before a new lens.

So, it could maybe use a little cropping, but I like the in-focus leaf on the right also so not sure what else to do with it.  And I'm reading up on focus stacking. And I still don't know how to select which of the 51 focus points it uses to get it to home in on the deep middle of the flower, so reading the manual also. And I really should drag out the tripod (have to for focus stacking I guess?), but I was just making sure the thing worked and wanted to see what the image stabilization could do for me. Other than that, any suggestions?

[Khaldun]

Ah, focus stacking. Welcome to addiction.

Pretty much if you're going to try it, you'll have to go manual focus. I think you have to do that even if you're just shooting really close like this on flowers and similar-sized objects--I find auto focus even on the best cameras doesn't really know where to choose. Auto focus is for fast-moving subjects, for people (esp. in crowds/street shots), for wildlife. Grain of salt and all that. Tripod also something of a necessity. Nice flower, good subject--nice structure to it.

That pizza shot by the way is making me hungry.

[Teleku]

Interesting, I was just thinking about using the ruble's steady collapse to my favor to get a deal on a Nikon 7200 (also the fact that I get an addition 20% off not having to pay tax).  From what I can tell, it's an upgrade in every way over the 7100, correct?  Also seems to be better than the current Canon offerings in the same range.  Guess I'd finally be committing  to Nikon over Canon for lenses though (they are at least equal with Canon in the nice lens category though, right?).

[Khaldun]

Interesting, I was just thinking about using the ruble's steady collapse to my favor to get a deal on a Nikon 7200 (also the fact that I get an addition 20% off not having to pay tax).  From what I can tell, it's an upgrade in every way over the 7100, correct?  Also seems to be better than the current Canon offerings in the same range.  Guess I'd finally be committing  to Nikon over Canon for lenses though (they are at least equal with Canon in the nice lens category though, right?).

An incremental upgrade in everything, yes. It has a special B&W extension of ISO up to 110,000 (or some crazy number like that); the autofocus is especially supposed to be better than the 7100.

[IainC]

Interesting, I was just thinking about using the ruble's steady collapse to my favor to get a deal on a Nikon 7200 (also the fact that I get an addition 20% off not having to pay tax).  From what I can tell, it's an upgrade in every way over the 7100, correct?  Also seems to be better than the current Canon offerings in the same range.  Guess I'd finally be committing  to Nikon over Canon for lenses though (they are at least equal with Canon in the nice lens category though, right?).

The comparable Canon would be the 70D which is a very capable piece of kit. I think for the enthusiast level stuff, there's probably not a lot to choose between the Canon and Nikon offerings to be honest (I have a 70D and I'm very happy indeed with it). Even lenses aren't a big deal as most of the third party glassgrinders make versions for both mounts. In the pro arena Canon still has an edge but unless you are in the business of shooting Nat Geo covers, I doubt you'll ever notice.

[Teleku]

Thats about what I figured.  However I'm letting feature envy get the better of me.  Exactly how big of a difference does it make to go to full frame, such as the D750?  What effect does that really have exactly?

[IainC]

Thats about what I figured.  However I'm letting feature envy get the better of me.  Exactly how big of a difference does it make to go to full frame, such as the D750?  What effect does that really have exactly?

Mostly it means you'll be spending a shitload more on lenses. APS-C cameras can use lenses for full-frame bodies but full frame cameras can't use lenses designed for APS-C kit. The APS-C lenses will only direct light to a portion of the larger sensor so you'll get a crazy amount of vignetting. Full-frame cameras will be noticeably better in some situations - for example if you do a lot of low-light photography, a larger sensor lets you take better photos at a lower ISO - but, for most shooting situations there's not much difference between a good enthusiast body and a full-on pro piece of kit. Enthusiast cameras generally have the exact same image processors as their bigger full-frame cousins these days. In some cases the APS-C might even be better, you can get more zoom capability with the same lens for example due to the crop factor affecting focal range by ~1.5x. Suddenly your cheap but good 100-300mm lens becomes a monstrous 150-450mm zoom. Look at the price difference between a 100-300mm and a 200-450mm lens to see why that is something you might want to do. Mostly the advantages of full-frame cameras are entirely down to the bigger sensor and some ergonomic advantages that pros like for workflow (such as having 2 SD card slots, one for RAW and one for JEPG captures).

I looked at some reviews of the 7200 and, while I'm not super familiar with Nikon gear, it looks like a very decent piece of kit. Most quibbles I saw were that the video capability was surprisingly poor for a camera in this class and that it doesn't autofocus as well as the Canon 70D.

[Merusk]

Yes and yes on the Nikons. They've always been ragged-on by the enthusiast groups I follow for not incorporating video better. Apologists say things like, "If you want a video camera, buy one. Don't go trying to turn your DSLR into a handi-cam."  Realists say, "Trend is to video these days, not still photography and you can do both well, so why not."

Nikon auto-focus has always been off on the 7x00 line. My 4-year-old 7000 had a major issue on some of the cameras that required adjusting the focal plane. The 7100 seemed to be better but I still saw complaints. Haven't looked into the 7200 series to see if they're still fuzzy at places but it wouldn't surprise me.

Thats about what I figured.  However I'm letting feature envy get the better of me.

Invest in lenses, your body should be good for several more years. At least you've realized it's feature envy before you spent. 

Speaking of lenses - what's everyone's recommendation for a Macro lens?  I thought my 75-300 had a macro setting but I'm mistaken and it was my sister's. Seeing as she lives in Portland now there's no chance of borrowing it. There's some spiders living in the front door sidelight I'd love to get photos of but I can't.

[Teleku]

Thanks for the advice guys.  I'll just stick with a 7200.  Seems to get really high ratings with image quality, which I just cant let go (also, newer).  Though the fact that the 70D has an articulating live view screen, and the 7200 does not, sorely tempts me.  Dear god I've had to get into some really awkward potions to get shots I've wanted before.   

[Count Nerfedalot]

I'm also looking for a good macro to add to the Nikon D7100.

But I'm also longing for a better telephoto to get a good shot of this fella: 

1:1 crop of a hand held desperation shot.  Auto-focus picked the telephone line a couple feet left of this crop instead of the bird.    Bastard sat on that line and watched me stop my car 100 feet away and get the camera out of the bag and fiddle with it swapping lenses and getting everything set up, then bolted the second I opened the car door!  I see one of these guys several times a week on the way to or from work. Usually sitting on a power line looking like the big bird in that Pixar short humor clip that preceded one of their first movies, I think Bug's Life?  But the real money shot will be if I can catch him lurking on the big dead tree he sometimes hangs out on.

As for the lack of an articulating display, I do miss that. I just started playing with the android app that lets me use WiFi to remote control the D7100. If you are setting it on a tripod, big or small, it might help you avoid having to be a contortionist to see the picture.  It's also better than a cable release for eliminating camera shake as it both eliminates the button press AND the mirror movement. The only remaining mechanical motion left at exposure time is the shutter itself.

Oh, and I found out it was defaulted to recording jpeg, so now I've switched it to RAW.  derp  Next task is learn how to get it to do burst mode.

[Merusk]

Burst is the dial ring below the mode settings on the left dial. Press the lock and rotate it from "S" to "Cl" or "Ch". The L and H stand for low and high speed.

I have a bird adversary that did the same thing. Flew low over the old house two times a day but never at the same time.  I never got a good shot because I didn't camp outside waiting. 

[Khaldun]

Yeah, we have a broad-shouldered hawk who is the same way. He will sit in a tree in the backyard looking for squirrels and rabbits for an hour, pay no attention to me, and the moment I bring the camera with the telephoto, he'll fly away. It's like clockwork.