Planetside 2

[HaemishM]

(looks more like Tabula Rasa than Halo to me, but then i actually liked TR so, eh)

This. That's not a good start.

[Surlyboi]

I loved TR but I don't think this looks anything like it. Plus, I'm pretty sure it's still an FPS, not a skill-roll dicefest.

[Paelos]

I'm not sure what they are going for, but I don't like it.

[slog]

I'm not sure what they are going for, but I don't like it.

Can't really tell one way or the other until I play it.  Since we have a year to wait....

[Malakili]

Looks good to me.  I can be picky about little things, but it looks plenty good enough to get me to put down World War 2 Online for a while at the very least.

[01101010]

Fucking hell.... are you kidding me? You die and you can swap trees? So much for consequences - and how is that going to work with cert points? That does not reference an open cert policy. Sure, when you die you can suddenly become a medic from a pilot or a heavy infantry...  The one great thing about PS was the horizontal leveling system to which they shall now just piss all over... though they were doing that towards the end of my PS run with the "you have to have a mossy cert in order to fly a reaver" bullshit.

The more I read this shit the more it really makes me sad in the pants. I understand it is a new game and all, but it feels more like they are making a current game with a PS skin rather than a PS game with a new skin.

[Ratman_tf]

I like the notion of a sandbox shooter.

[Malakili]

Fucking hell.... are you kidding me? You die and you can swap trees? So much for consequences - and how is that going to work with cert points? That does not reference an open cert policy. Sure, when you die you can suddenly become a medic from a pilot or a heavy infantry...  The one great thing about PS was the horizontal leveling system to which they shall now just piss all over... though they were doing that towards the end of my PS run with the "you have to have a mossy cert in order to fly a reaver" bullshit.

The more I read this shit the more it really makes me sad in the pants. I understand it is a new game and all, but it feels more like they are making a current game with a PS skin rather than a PS game with a new skin.

The less personal advancement in the game the better as far as I'm concerned.  Let personal skill be "advancement"  you want to be the best transport pilot around, get fucking to it instead of relying on skill points.

[tmp]

I loved TR but I don't think this looks anything like it.

Well,

http://files.dropbox.com/u/570522/Pictures/screens/tabularasa02.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joystiq.com/media/2007/12/dor01.jpg

it's mainly the colour palette and semi-cell shaded style i think. Though some of the armour designs are also similar, but that's pretty much unavoidable. Still, not really a problem; just the first impression it gave me.

[Speedy Cerviche]

I like the notion of a sandbox shooter.

Yeah. I don't really care about whatever cert/class system comes out as long as it is not does not give a power advantage beyond versatility. Some purist PS1 guys want it to be exactly the same but it isn't a big deal for anyone who wasn't a PS1.

Eve style sandbox FPS game sounds great tho, I really like a lot of what they said in the PC Gamer quote. Hopefully they can pull off the key design/execution that failed PS1.

[Mrbloodworth]

Looks like a more modern Plantside to me. *shrug* The models and such are clearly taking cues from the old ones.



Some more then others for sure. Its the same guy directing it.

[Surlyboi]

I loved TR but I don't think this looks anything like it.

Well,

http://files.dropbox.com/u/570522/Pictures/screens/tabularasa02.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joystiq.com/media/2007/12/dor01.jpg

it's mainly the colour palette and semi-cell shaded style i think. Though some of the armour designs are also similar, but that's pretty much unavoidable. Still, not really a problem; just the first impression it gave me.

Yeah, still not seeing the TR resemblance, but hey, that may be just me.

As for the MAXes, put a goddamn shield or plate or something over those heads on the TR and NC variants, because I swear to god, if I see an open face and I can't put a bullet in it, I'm gonna be pissed.

[Strazos]

Wat? NC is totally enclosed.

[Ratman_tf]

The TR one has a fake, heavily armored face, to keep people from shooting up the limb joints. 

[Surlyboi]

Wat? NC is totally enclosed.

It's enclosed, yeah, but how thick could that plate be?

[01101010]

Wat? NC is totally enclosed.

It's enclosed, yeah, but how thick could that plate be?

Made with Gorilla Glass

[LK]

"It's a Gundam!"

[Ghambit]

If I cant rain a nucular lazer beam of death onto someone's face from orbit I'm gonna be pissed.
That, and I wanna scribble on tacmaps.  Gimme. 

Oh, and they'd be wise to steal Rift's terrain capture style.  Let the land morph as the lines change dynamically, then reflect that on the battle maps.

Lastly, does anyone have a fuckin clue yet exactly how big these maps will be?  I wont play if I can roll an entire world in a few hours.   
I'd say their target map "winning" should be around 1-2 weeks even with grossly skewed faction balance.

[Lantyssa]

It's only starting with one world.  Multiple continents, but "planets to be added later".

[Goumindong]

Why are we hating on classes?   TF2 and Brink have classes but I don't remember anyone suggesting that was bad.

I also, from that RPS article think that people might be taking "classes" a bit to far.

I mean, they mention that progression is going to be like EVE.

In EVE when you progress, the first time you attain a skill you are now allowed to use it. You can't use medium autocannons until you've trained the medium autocannon skill. And then from that there are various specializations that you can spend time unlocking.

If we follow that and then apply it to planetside then what you have is various items/armors that you can or cannot use based on your certs, with various specializations on top of those.

When they say "changing class" they mean the same thing as they do in EVE when you change ship. Beyond the certs your player is limited by certain restrictions on what they can carry, but between deaths you are able to pick and chose whatever it is you want to do. I don't think that they're going to say "well you can't use the medic pack with heavy armor" its just going to be "well, you can't use the medic pack with heavy armor and also have the engineer pack because the medic pack and engineer pack take the same slot, and heavy armor only has one of those slots available".

With all their talk of "customizing prowlers" i find it hard to believe that "changing classes" means anything but "changing to another pre-set configuration that you may have or may not have set up" and not "there is no customization that can be done between them.

Changing class does not seem to mean that you can simply swap your certs around. Your certs are locked in, but as you progress you're eventually going to only be able to use a limited number at a time, and so "changing class" allows you to do that based on which certs you know.

edit:

Talk of an EVE based skill set really does make me optimistic. For all of the things that EVE does wrong[its a big list] the skill system it does right. The majority of different specialties are horizontal rather than vertical progression and vertical specialization takes a long time for that "last 5%".

This combines the advantages of a swift introduction to being useful in combat so long as there are not imbalances towards the highly vertical path options while still allowing players to feel like they have an advantage the longer they play. Furthermore, from a design perspective of attempting to keep players, it entices them with that "one last 5% specialization" which can aid retention long enough that social ties keep them playing.

Since getting items in planetside has no currency, it seems like it will be more difficult to justify the types of things that plague EVE's balance. The "X>Y because it costs more" problem essentially. Once you are over that you have a very limited amount of vertical options within the same tree. And if you don't have justifications based on "skill time" or "cost" you are left with justifying balance based on core principles which is likely to generate a more enjoyable system despite the advantages in both flexibility(pilot more stuff) and strength(more 5% bonuses) that veterans can attain.

Has me kinda looking forward to the game despite the hilariousness of prior information/what they did to the original

[UnSub]

I'm going to be interested in constrasting the promises with the reality.

[Ghambit]

It's only starting with one world.  Multiple continents, but "planets to be added later".

Uhh,  WW2O has one world.  It still takes over a month to roll the map.

[Surlyboi]

That's 'cause you're rolling in old-ass tanks.

[01101010]

My reaction to the classes thing is mostly a gut reaction. When I hear classes I think a traditional class with a specific tree that does not allow other skills to be used. This means to me that a heavy assault will not have an option to have a tertiary medic skill or engy skill and will have to switch to that class before doing a task and then switch back. I should reserve judgement since there is no mention of the mechanic behind it other than a talking point. Technically, PS had "classes" that were player built on armor type and based on load out. I am hoping this is the type of stuff they mean since when you spawned, you hit a term a selected a load out. However, I still get a sense that classes will limit certain secondary skills from being available in that a full on heavy assault will not be able to repair or heal/rez as we could in PS. The more I think about it, the more I can see diversity in squads rather than everyone carrying the same certs for, say... a gen hold. 

I hate discussing this shit with a game that is still years off from being played...

[Malakili]

It's only starting with one world.  Multiple continents, but "planets to be added later".

Uhh,  WW2O has one world.  It still takes over a month to roll the map.

To be fair, thats a LOT slower paced game than PS.  Assuming the other side chooses to defend a given town, even a small insignificant place on the map can take an afternoon to capture.

[Mrbloodworth]

My reaction to the classes thing is mostly a gut reaction. When I hear classes I think a traditional class with a specific tree that does not allow other skills to be used. This means to me that a heavy assault will not have an option to have a tertiary medic skill or engy skill and will have to switch to that class before doing a task and then switch back. I should reserve judgement since there is no mention of the mechanic behind it other than a talking point. Technically, PS had "classes" that were player built on armor type and based on load out. I am hoping this is the type of stuff they mean since when you spawned, you hit a term a selected a load out. However, I still get a sense that classes will limit certain secondary skills from being available in that a full on heavy assault will not be able to repair or heal/rez as we could in PS. The more I think about it, the more I can see diversity in squads rather than everyone carrying the same certs for, say... a gen hold.  

I hate discussing this shit with a game that is still years off from being played...

This is basically my worry as well. I think the "build a class" was one of the best parts of PS. But yes, its speculation at this point. I hope they clarify.

[Ghambit]

It's only starting with one world.  Multiple continents, but "planets to be added later".

Uhh,  WW2O has one world.  It still takes over a month to roll the map.

To be fair, thats a LOT slower paced game than PS.  Assuming the other side chooses to defend a given town, even a small insignificant place on the map can take an afternoon to capture.

I'd say it's more about size/scale than pace (ww2o is a 1:2 scale representation of europe yes?).  And tbh, a Reaver moves a lot slower across a map than a Spitfire.  And a laffly is speedier than a magrider, and so on. 

At the very least in ps2 they need to make the battlespace large enough to even give a fuck about resources and advancement in the 1st place, let alone terrain objectives and so on.  PS originally was simply more about who brought the numbers quickest especially during off-peak... map would roll, people got bored, and it'd start all over.  All in one evening.  That's just flat out wacked, no matter how perdy your MAX is or how your hitbox is designed.  The only saving grace during PEAK was the 133 limit, which forced people to actually fight with skill and planning for a few hours.  They're talking 1000's of units in PS2, so I really hope they dont intend to chokepoint the game like PS1 did.  Logic is logical, unless you're SOE  I guess.   

[Surlyboi]

I'm just tweaked about every inch of real estate being contestable. Visions of Hamburger Hill float to mind.

[01101010]

I'm just tweaked about every inch of real estate being contestable. Visions of Hamburger Hill float to mind.

Gotta wonder how that is actually going to work... I see influences of Global Agenda hex system since there will have to be borders around areas.

[Mrbloodworth]

Some cool info:

[Surlyboi]

We asked about whether there would be any small group instanced PvP, and while he said that Planetside 2 is focused only on world map open battles, he did say they thought about adding some strict, competitive, e-sports-style competition into the game. It would be a small map set up for platoon vs platoon, or 40 vs 40, with a set duration and objectives. He said it would be a neat sub-game to Planetside 2, but he stressed that it would never be the focus of the game.

Why even ask for shit like that? Seriously, if I want small instanced shit, I'll fire up Battlefield or even Halo. The very reason for playing PS or PS2 is for the big honking battles. Fuck anyone that wants sport PvP in this game right in the fucking earhole.

[Ratman_tf]

It's only starting with one world.  Multiple continents, but "planets to be added later".

I'd rather they just stuck with the one planet, rather than shoehorning in more for no productive reason.

[Ratman_tf]

We asked about whether there would be any small group instanced PvP, and while he said that Planetside 2 is focused only on world map open battles, he did say they thought about adding some strict, competitive, e-sports-style competition into the game. It would be a small map set up for platoon vs platoon, or 40 vs 40, with a set duration and objectives. He said it would be a neat sub-game to Planetside 2, but he stressed that it would never be the focus of the game.

Why even ask for shit like that? Seriously, if I want small instanced shit, I'll fire up Battlefield or even Halo. The very reason for playing PS or PS2 is for the big honking battles. Fuck anyone that wants sport PvP in this game right in the fucking earhole.

That's exactly what their response should have been, minus the swearing.
A penny put towards development of small instanced PvP in Planetside is a waste of a shiny penny.

[slog]

Q&A going at Redit

http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/il5og/hey_rplanetside_im_matt_higby_the_creative/

[eldaec]

We asked about whether there would be any small group instanced PvP, and while he said that Planetside 2 is focused only on world map open battles, he did say they thought about adding some strict, competitive, e-sports-style competition into the game. It would be a small map set up for platoon vs platoon, or 40 vs 40, with a set duration and objectives. He said it would be a neat sub-game to Planetside 2, but he stressed that it would never be the focus of the game.

Why even ask for shit like that? Seriously, if I want small instanced shit, I'll fire up Battlefield or even Halo. The very reason for playing PS or PS2 is for the big honking battles. Fuck anyone that wants sport PvP in this game right in the fucking earhole.

That's exactly what their response should have been, minus the swearing.
A penny put towards development of small instanced PvP in Planetside is a waste of a shiny penny.

No.

SOE's response should have had *more* swearing.

Death to all sport pvp in mmos.