Planetside 2

[UnsGub]

What makes American Sports Teams works is a structure wherein any player not acting as part of the team would find his ass fired or not renewed on his contract. They wouldn't be able to play or compete. You can't have that in a video game, though.

It is all video games that support player groups.  People apply, accepted and get booted from clans\corps\guilds\teams all the time.  That is really just part of the metagame and should be encouraged in an PvP game.

But yes that does not appy to the top level in video games beside the choice to play or not play which is made all the time.

In the end choosing to play at all and with whom are really not that far apart.  

[Speedy Cerviche]

My immediate questions to you (and keep in mind this is in the context of a PERSISTENT, UNENDING WAR):
1. Why would someone join a poorly-performing team, assuming they know it's poorly-performing, when they can join the winners and get all the toys right away?
2. Why would you divide your player base between attack and defense? The ideal place for all players to be is on the front lines engaged in conflict.
3. What would you do to create an incentive for people to defend a base that grants an unlocked incentive that doesn't break personal progression or make the game boring for the player, assuming the front line has moved away from the incentive-granting base?

You can ignore all those and just answer me this: Why would a soldier listen to their commanders about what's best for the team? What stops them from performing an action *they* think is best for the team? Why would a person follow instead of lead?

You'd need to put in some dynamic balancing mechanisms to prevent pile-ons. Capping faction membership out of game, ingame stuff like supply lines could be modeled to make it difficult to push deep into enemy territory (more difficult for attacker to get heavy equipment, easier for enemy). This stuff has been done before.

I didn't necessarily mean sit around on sentry duty. Also I dont remember too well but I think in PS you couldnt just capture an enemy base deep in the rear too easily. If an enemy tried to ninja it, your side was warned and people would start spawning there. Sometimes players can be relectunt to defend objectives from assault in FPS games, and just want to roll around assaulting and moving on. Giving them some personal stake in a facility would discourage this (gee I like my heavy tank, maybe I should defend our factory).

Also I posted this before in the thread, but "outfits" (clans) can be given a bigger role. They could build up HQ fortresses which could be attacked, and could take responsibility for objectives (like in WAR when clans tookover and safeguarded faction keeps), giving members bonuses, outfit resources, etc. This would also add a layer of persistance beyond a normal FPS that would help justify a subscription model. Outfits (clans/guilds) have inbuilt & member accepted hierchies of course, by their very nature.

[LK]

Outfits / Clans / Guilds are completely staffed by players. It would be exempt from any discussion about empire goals, because they are independent and not taking orders from the Empire -- the same as any player in the game. Who they are aligned with doesn't mean they are obedient, and the overarching goal (win an unwinnable war) makes a tough case to any player to care after they get enough meaningless victories under their belt.

Some people just want to relax and not take their games seriously. The only way you can make them take it seriously is to personally reward them to put in more effort and work as a team, but material rewards aren't appealing to their sense of loyalty -- that's just dangling a carrot. You have to make winning meaningful to them.

Games by themselves aren't meaningful. It's the personal experience you take from your entertainment that does it, but ultimately, you shouldn't take the game seriously because the Vanu are getting beaten down by the NCR. You should take it seriously because your buddies are in there fighting and need your help, and damn it that NCR bastard last week needs to get a cruise missile shoved up his asshole for what he did to you. That piece of gear? Yeah that came from an epic struggle between you and that bastard dragon where Leeroy ran in and shoved a stick of dynamite into its eye socket. God I love this piece of gear. Too bad I have to upgrade it.

You can't get someone to do what you want if they don't care, even if all you want to do is have them play your game. A positive emotional connection to a game is *not* guaranteed in open-world PvP, and because of this, you will bleed players until there is nothing left. It takes a steady stream of positive experiences to keep someone playing. You can't design to make that happen. You can only create the environment. It's up to your players to make that magic happen, and shit, have you looked around you lately at all the variety of players out there?

[LK]

I think I get it now. You guys aren't pissed at Planetside -- you're pissed at the other players for leaving and removing the ability to pursue those positive experiences. You'd follow orders and do what's necessary because you have an emotional connection to the game. But I don't know if you see that Planetside's inherent flaws are what is driving the players away. I'm arguing on a platform that those flaws are damn-near impossible to remove with how Planetside is structured as a game.

[Malakili]

You can't get someone to do what you want if they don't care, even if all you want to do is have them play your game. A positive emotional connection to a game is *not* guaranteed in open-world PvP, and because of this, you will bleed players until there is nothing left. It takes a steady stream of positive experiences to keep someone playing. You can't design to make that happen. You can only create the environment. It's up to your players to make that magic happen, and shit, have you looked around you lately at all the variety of players out there?

Its not guaranteed in COD either, and yet it sells a bajillion copies, because people actually enjoy playing it.  There is no reason a similar principle can't apply to an MMOFPS in my opinion.  

You seem so concerned with tricking people into liking the game.  Just make a game they actually like.  I really can't say it any other way.
  

[LK]

It is a designer's job to make a game someone likes (as many people as possible, really)... by using every trick in the book.  

COD has a different audience. They care because of their emotional connection to the game formed from positive personal experiences. The Kill Streaks are like CRACK for positive personal experiences. I always wanted to get that Chopper Gunner and blow the shit out of the other team. What's more, because the matches ended quickly, a loss didn't stay with me, and every new match was another opportunity to fuck someone up.

There are many reasons CoD is popular, and getting a player to give a shit about what they are doing is one of them.

[LK]

I should say, liking a game is fine, make a game people will like, but what keeps someone playing when they don't like what they're doing?

Ah jesus, I think I get why Facebook games are popular, and why I hate them. It's all emotional connections.

[Kitsune]

Planetside was sweet from the get-go.  The only thing really crippling it is the fact that the original devs are long gone and nobody apparently knows how to modify the game to update content and fix problems.  The technical issues of an older game are hounding it now, and the lack of meaningful content updates over the last few years are making things terribly stale.  If the game was being kept polished and fresh, it would be worth paying a monthly subscription for and would have an easier time retaining players.

[UnSub]

Smedley on a game "codenamed PlanetSide Next" and "we haven't announced a release date for it but you can expect it... We're looking at late first-quarter, early second-quarter [2011]."[url]

Has SCEI completely cut SOE's marketing budget? SOE promotions appear to rely on stealth launches atm.

Perhaps that strategy works for MMOs - launch day servers don't get pounded and players get to talk about how smooth the launch was, while word of mouth drives sales / downloads over a longer time period.

[01101010]

I am sorry but the more I read on this, the more my bullshit-senses start tingling. Release a game with what, only in-house testing and no server load testing with the likes of an open beta? I get this sinking feeling this is going to end up being Planetside reskinned and graphically boosted. No way they have a functional game on the scale of Planetside in under a year, let alone 6 months.

[Malakili]

I get this sinking feeling this is going to end up being Planetside reskinned and graphically boosted.

I'd play that.

[Outlawedprod]

Release a game with what, only in-house testing and no server load testing with the likes of an open beta? I get this sinking feeling this is going to end up being Planetside reskinned and graphically boosted.

From the artilce linked:  "The biggest thing that's going to change here in the next few years is the console MMO, and that's why I'm really proud that we've got the first big one [DCUO]."

Perhaps the SOE way will be the Cryptic way.  Release, get some box sales, and hold onto a decent amount of subscribers to run a few servers.  The only difference is they will be about the console userbase.

[Mrbloodworth]

I would be very surprised if Plantside next had anything to do with consoles. Its not in its pedigree, and that would be a big switch for its pre-existing PC fanbase.

In fact, I would guess riots would ensue.

[01101010]

I would be very surprised if Plantside next had anything to do with consoles. Its not in its pedigree, and that would be a big switch for its pre-existing PC fanbase.

In fact, I would guess riots would ensue.

More like rageboycotts.

[Mrbloodworth]

Not to mention, it would be in direct competition with some hefty titles.

[Lantyssa]

This is SOE, so you might want to consider the possibility before getting your hopes too high.

[Ingmar]

It is also an open question if the Planetside 'fanbase' is large enough or important enough to really take into account.

[LK]

Ah don't let a little thing like reality and business perspective get in the way of launching a Planetside sequel.

[Mrbloodworth]

Yes, please do launch Planetside to a group of players who have never heard of it, on a platform that has a completely different input device, and make sure to place it on shelves right between Halo Reach and M.A.G.

That will work well.  

[Lantyssa]

Do you need a list of SOE blunders?

[Mrbloodworth]

Nope. I have all the merit badges.

[Sky]

Do you need a list of SOE blunders?

They have a bus for that.

[Bandit]

Do you need a list of SOE blunders?

They have a bus for that.

...but it's a short one 

[Ingmar]

Yes, please do launch Planetside to a group of players who have never heard of it, on a platform that has a completely different input device, and make sure to place it on shelves right between Halo Reach and M.A.G.

That will work well.  

That group of players is much, much, much larger than the handful of people who still sit around thinking about the glory days of 2003, and every once in a while they even buy a game that they've never heard of before, because it is a new franchise. The idea that they need to make the game for the handful of bitter old vets who sit around reminiscing about pre-lattice Galaxy crashes and such is silly.

This reminds me of all the arguing people did about Warhammer needing to cater specifically to DAOC vets, as if there were enough of them still sitting around wanting DAOC 2 to constitute an actual market segment worth courting.

[01101010]

Yes, please do launch Planetside to a group of players who have never heard of it, on a platform that has a completely different input device, and make sure to place it on shelves right between Halo Reach and M.A.G.

That will work well.  

That group of players is much, much, much larger than the handful of people who still sit around thinking about the glory days of 2003, and every once in a while they even buy a game that they've never heard of before, because it is a new franchise. The idea that they need to make the game for the handful of bitter old vets who sit around reminiscing about pre-lattice Galaxy crashes and such is silly.

This reminds me of all the arguing people did about Warhammer needing to cater specifically to DAOC vets, as if there were enough of them still sitting around wanting DAOC 2 to constitute an actual market segment worth courting.

And that group of players is exactly who I DO NOT want to game with. Egotistical and self-serving - I know, but I tried console shooters "online" and it is the Walmart of gaming. I may peek in and marvel from time to time, but I won't go there with intentions other than that.

[Dtrain]

Nope. I have all the merit badges.

Sup?

[Speedy Cerviche]

They should add "titans" like in BF2142. Slow flying giant ass airships basically that would add a "naval warfare" style element to the game. Add headquarter, battleship, carrier and maybe escort versions.

[01101010]

http://news.mmosite.com/content/2011-01-23/first_ever_image_for_planetside_next_emerged.shtml

Hopeful about keeping the three factions. And the skin looks nice on the vanguard, but it's still the same Vanny. I am leaning even more towards my assumption that this will be just a reskinned PS with (hopefully) better netcode and revamped base designs.

[Mrbloodworth]

Oh my, could it be a prequel? That does not look like Vanu based tech.


EDIT: *EXPLODES*








Please tell me they are keeping the mounting animations, PLEASE.

EDIT2:

T-Ray PS:Next Visual Director
I'm glad you guys are diggin the Galaxy.
Stay tuned

\o/

Hystory: T-Ray was PlanetSide's Lead Graphic Artist. He later worked on Neverwinter Nights 2

[01101010]

Well a prequel would definitely be in line with what Smed has discussed so far... my excitement meter just pinged off "fuck off" to "meh," but if this is set at the time of the first real war between the factions, it may climb more. I still keep the SOE thing in the front of my mind though.

[Mrbloodworth]

I have much more faith now that I know its not just random nubs working on it. T-ray was pivotal on the first version.

[eldaec]

If I can get a mosquito and just zip around very fast picking off snipers who always stand in the same fucking place, in between annoying reapers and out manoeuvring missiles spammed by some dick in a MAX suit then these guys will get an occasional month's money from me.

I have never been at all interested in the bases other than knowing that is where the snipers, reapers, and dicks in MAX suits will be standing. As a result the endless discussion this game attracts around how the map is designed never really impacted me.


I'm probably not the long term market for this, however.

[eldaec]

Also, day one joystick support that works please.

[Strazos]

OMG, if epic battles in the woods can be replicated from PS, I will play this. Stealthing through the woods, stabbing folks and running away...pure gold.

Also, walking around in a NC MAX with scattergun rolling, spamming "GREETS!"

[Speedy Cerviche]

..out manoeuvring missiles spammed by some dick in a MAX suit....

Dicks fuck pussies & assholes.