Dr. Who

[Ironwood]

I just can't believe Glenn is dead.  It's so shocking.

[palmer_eldritch]

My guess is Clara and the Doctor have a heart to heart where she admits that she's wanted to top herself since Danny Pink died and he convinces her that life is worth living.

Maybe Arya Stark is meant to be a lesson in how death is part of life and eternal life is actually kind of shitty. Or something.

[HaemishM]

I just can't believe Glenn is dead.  It's so shocking.

Yeah, not buying it for one minute. I kept waiting for the "OH BUT HERE'S MY CLEVER WAY OF BEING CLEVER" moment. Guess I have to wait until next week.

I really think Maisie Williams has been utterly wasted this season. Not to mention the whole idea of the alien refuge alley is silly when you start putting fucking Cybermen in it.

[NowhereMan]

Yeah, 'Does a Cyberman fear a merciful death?' Well no. I'm pretty sure they don't fear death all that much at all. I am not sure how she's meant to keep order in that street.

They'd been setting Clara up for a while with her sudden pushiness this season and really ramped it up at the beginning of this episode. I wasn't expecting anything so soon but yeah, I suspect we're going to have 'I'm really clever look at me being clever with wearable technology, part of my super plan all along but I didn't tell anyone because it was too clever'.

[Ironwood]

To be utterly fair here (and I'm gritting my fucking teeth doing it), humanised cybermen have been done in EVERY episode that has featured them since they reappeared with DT.  So, it's not actually a stretch.

Do I fucking hate the idea of Rose's Cybermum and fucking queen and country cyberpatriot and danny fucking pink cyberboyfriend and fucking Lethbridge cyberbrig ?

Yes, I fucking hate the idea.  But the precedent is THERE.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Overall I liked this episode.  I'm not sure they bring Clara back after this for more than an episode because whatever this show gets wrong, once they have those tear filled goodbyes they don't usually retcon(lol) them.

[Ironwood]

She's contracted for the Christmas one, no ?

So....

[Lakov_Sanite]

She's contracted for the Christmas one, no ?

So....

Well like I said "for more than an episode" as in they bring out some kind of ghost clara for a final goodbye.

[Ironwood]

I just seem to remember this shite last time too at which point, they did the Christmas episode and it was 'Surprise, not dead' to the surprise of...no-one with an IQ higher than an eggplant.

[Threash]

I just seem to remember this shite last time too at which point, they did the Christmas episode and it was 'Surprise, not dead' to the surprise of...no-one with an IQ higher than an eggplant.

Well to be fair she is confirmed to be leaving the show, so actually taking her deaths seriously is not so far fetched this time.

[Surlyboi]

I did like the Torchwood reference with the retcon. The rest was passable. But yeah, Clara will be back. Probably a lot and whenever they need her.

[Khaldun]

There were the usual Moffat plotholes (most of them easily filled with a line of dialog) and I didn't like the "mind palace" bits but otherwise I thought Part 1 of the finale was pretty great. Capaldi is in many ways my favorite Doctor--he just hasn't had episodes fully worthy of his skills. This one gave him something to work with.

[slog]

I enjoyed the episode, but I find that I can't always hear the dialogue over the music.  Must be getting old. 

[Khaldun]

No, I agree--there's something about the soundmixing on BBC America that's very off this season.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I loved the episode even guessing the twist fairly early on.  I like the little mind tardis bits because they felt more like the actor in a play addressing the audience than the gimmicky sherlock stuff.  Capaldi is just great.

[HaemishM]

Capaldi was fantastic, but yeah that "twist" was telegraphed a mile away.

[Ironwood]

More fairy tale bullshit.  Obvious, clichéd, trite and plotholed bullshit.  Moffat, in other words.  Once again, made worse by the fact that it would probably be a good episode of anything else but Dr Who.  He really, really, really doesn't want to write for this show.  Also, he's never read a Gaiman story that he hasn't wanted to nick.

Also, ten second trailer makes next episode just as obvious and bullshit.  But we'll see.

Capaldi is utterly fantastic though.  Oh for a decent script.

[Khaldun]

I think maybe you're a bit too Captain Ahab on the guy, much as I agree generally that he's mismanaged the overall show.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I get that people may want it more scifi than the scifi-fantasy it's become but let's be honest it's been that since halfway through doc 9.  At this point you can either accept the fantastical elements or not but they are likely here to stay.  That said there are still some shit episodes that rely too much on fairy dust but that's a problem with all fantasy or super scifi, there's always the temptation to say "a wizard did it".

[Ironwood]

I think maybe you're a bit too Captain Ahab on the guy, much as I agree generally that he's mismanaged the overall show.

Not really.  I'm still waiting on him actually writing a good original one.  I'll give credit when it happens.  Sure, I loved Girl in the Fireplace because the 'fantasy' bits were kinda new and worked in the context ;  I wouldn't let them pass NOW of course, because he's gone back to the well sooooo many times.  Blink didn't require any of that and worked great and was brilliant as long as you accepted the Monster Power, which was fine to my mind.  But it's just the same thing over and over again - he's not met a story he won't steal from somewhere else (I mean, honestly, this latest one was nicked from so many other places I lost count.  He also just pulls things out of his ass for the most part and, this is the annoying bit, where he doesn't need to.  It's fine to mismanage the show, it's fine to treat it with contempt (honestly, it is), but don't do that and then have the conceit to try and write for it.

You'll note that I won't savage his writing for Coupling or Press Gang or even Sherlock (though some of his stuff leaks through oddly in Sherlock) ;  It's just that he's entirely unsuited to writing for this show anymore and should really, please God, let other chaps have a honest to God try without his interference.

But yes, I'm like a Bob with a Bone, so I'll forbear to comment for a while.  It's never interesting hearing the same shit over and over and, frankly, I've had this rant almost weekly.

(Just such a shame.  I've met Capaldi.  I love Capaldi.  Give him some more Tom Baker Scripts and let him SHINE.)

[Khaldun]

I generally agree by the by that a showrunner should not write for their own show unless it's insanely personal, say, something like a Dennis Potter production. The problem really is that nobody can tell you what's wrong with your own scripts, and you're too inclined to staff up with people who write and think like you as well. Stracynzski  is another example of that--the idea for Babylon 5 was good, a lot of the character arcs were good, but when the show's plotting and dialogue stunk (which was somewhat often over five seasons) it was almost 95% because JMS liked the smell of his own shit too much and there was nobody to tell him otherwise.

[HaemishM]

I get that people may want it more scifi than the scifi-fantasy it's become but let's be honest it's been that since halfway through doc 9.  At this point you can either accept the fantastical elements or not but they are likely here to stay.  That said there are still some shit episodes that rely too much on fairy dust but that's a problem with all fantasy or super scifi, there's always the temptation to say "a wizard did it".

No, it's NOT all fantasy or sci-fi, it's BAD fantasy or sci-fi. And fairy dust isn't so much the problem with Moffat's Doctor Who stories, it's that all too often the stories just don't goddamn make sense. They fail at their own internal logic and all too often they contradict the show's mythology, history and internal logic from episode to episode. Most of the CONCEPTS that have been put forth since Moffat took over haven't been bad at the conceptual level per se. Some have been stupid but for the most part, I don't think there's any that were conceptually unworkable. But the details get stupid and the resolutions are usually terrible and rely way too much on "just because" as opposed to making any sense based on what we've seen out of the characters and situations.

Moffat writes great characters, though sometimes he relies a little too much on wittiness as character building. But when it comes to meshing those characters with a world that is believable (despite the fantastical elements), he's shit.

[Lakov_Sanite]

It's a "problem" with all scifi and fantasy that they struggle with, good ones will not take the easy route but the possibility is always there.

[NowhereMan]

So honestly the last episode left me with a lot of questions, some of which are I think intentionally unclear elements.

[Ironwood]

Nope.  Can't help yourself, can you Ironwood ?

[Lakov_Sanite]

The hybrid is 'me'

Not the doctor.

[HaemishM]

The whole hybrid and construction of the confession thing made no sense whatsoever especoailly if the Time Lords made it. So... Moffat?

[Khaldun]

[Ironwood]

And you made me edit all those fucking spoilers, you bastards.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I mean it's a misdirection sure but she even shows up in the teaser for the next episode so I doubt they are gonna try and string people along for more than a couple minutes.  My two cent idea on the whole prophecy nonsense is that "the hybrid will stand over the ruins of gallfrey" is just going to mean that 'Me' outlives basically everything including the time lords, not necessarily conquers them.

[Khaldun]

[Ironwood]

No, it's in his pocket.

IN HIS POCKET PRECIOUS.

[HaemishM]

My DVR cut off the last second so I missed the preview for next week. And yes, Gallifrey is RIGHT FUCKING THERE.

I mean, one thing Moffat is not is subtle.

[Khaldun]

No, no, I mean that it's not clear if time is passing for Gallifrey any longer--if it exists in regular time and space, or in some sort of pocket dimension. It's very clear that next week's episode takes place on Gallifrey.

[HaemishM]

Well, based on the previous discussion of the painting thing in that War Doctor thingie with John Hurt, I think it's outside time and space - while being in his pocket. Hence the ability for him to live 2 billion fucking years or some shit and not have to regenerate, or any of the shit in the castle degrading or the closed energy loop or whatever. Of course, Moffat so anything that was said was probably forgotten long ago.