Mechwarrior Online

[Zetleft]

That could definitely pull me back in.... the bastards.

[Falconeer]

Video explaining the new 'Mech Selection interface, plus all the other little but needed Quality of Life improvements. Coming with next Tuesday's patch. Undeniably, a huge step ahead especially together with last month's Mechlab revamp.

[Falconeer]

Marauder and Warhammer announced. The Marauder is coming December 1st. Here's the artwork for the MAD.

[Evildrider]

PGI playing chicken with Harmony Gold!   

I so want that Marauder, but I hate the heavy/assault mechs.  :(  The Warhammer will be my most probable must buy though.

[Lantyssa]

Dammit.  That might get me playing again even if I prefer the lights.

[Falconeer]

Huge huge huge huge rebalance pass on the test server right now, supposedly in the game in a month or so. Not worth going over the specifics now, but here's a couple of quick comments:

- It's changing ALL quirks, removing ALL weapon quirks and introducing some new ones about sensor warfare
- As a consequence, TTK is going up. Which is good.
- It's also affecting targeting, meaning that there will be a delay between when you see a 'mech and when you can even target it. This is the opposite of fun, it will just feel weird and unresponsive.
- It has good intentions, but this is crazyness. PGI is shit at balance and this is gonna open a new can of horrid stinky worms that will most likely push the game back into total chaos.

I like the higher TTK, but I am really worried about everything else. How can you ever trust Paul Inouye's designs?

Here's the main article: http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/208441-mech-rebalance-and-pts/

[Lantyssa]

I wonder how many times they can redesign things from the ground up?

[Samprimary]

With MWO, the devil we know is honestly worse than the devil we don't. It is better that they at least try to shake up the meta and change everything, rather than have everyone slowly fit into a sclerotic habit of Always Use These Four Acceptable Weapons that never changes.

Its like with the star wars reboot: at least a potential to end up in a less shitty place.

[Falconeer]

Marauder sale page is up. 20$ for three variants and 40$ for the collector edition (?)

https://mwomercs.com/marauder

*EDIT: The 20$ pack includes 30 days of premium, which is worth about 11$. This is a surprisingly amazing deal.

[Evildrider]

Marauder sale page is up. 20$ for three variants and 40$ for the collector edition (?)

https://mwomercs.com/marauder

*EDIT: The 20$ pack includes 30 days of premium, which is worth about 11$. This is a surprisingly amazing deal.

It's the same as the Urbanmech deal.  Also they are releasing a Hero Marauder as well I thought.

*edit:  Should have looked at the page first.   

Also I hate PGI.. cuz I am fighting hard to resist giving them more money.  lol

[Lantyssa]

I kind of like they're throwing modules into the packages.  I'm so friggin' poor that I have a single one that I have to move from 'mech to 'mech.

Not sure if I'm going to get this since I haven't played in so long... but a Marauder...

[Falconeer]

The Black Knight, being added with tomorrow's patch.

[Shannow]

Meh, where's ma Warhamma!

[Fordel]

I really do like how they handle the mech models themselves.

Like the Black Knight is still instantly recognizable as such, but is far less goofy then the original art of it:

[Samprimary]

what are the top ten most garbage original mech designs anyway

[MahrinSkel]

Yeah, I could pick nits with the MWO team over a lot of things, but one thing that is definite: Their art team is top-tier, I've never seen more than the most trivial of technique errors (polys, mapping, animation artifacts), and the results are always true to the original concepts, even when they are distinctly different it is almost always a clear improvement.

Some of the environment models are comparatively weak, but the environment is background. The mechs are always excellent.

--Dave

[Evildrider]

The dev team also gave a copy of all their art assets to Harebrained for their Battletech game.

[Falconeer]

Clarification about tiers by Paul Inouye.

Howdy,

I'm going clarify a few rumors and assumptions that are being made about how PSR works and what the different Tiers are achieved. This is going to require a few graphics so bear with my hasty sketches (don't have time to do the blackboard w/ Prof. Dakka)

Clarification 1: How many Tiers are there and what do they mean?
There are 5 Tiers. Tier 1 being the highest rated players and Tier 5 being the lowest. These are RATINGS that are calculated from your past matches in terms of team play. Tiers are NOT a RANK. You do not rank your way up in Tiers.

Clarification 2: The more games you play the higher Tier you're going to get.
That's partly true. The more games you play, the better you should become. The better you become, the higher your match scores will be. But you will plateau somewhere. Our top players have hit the PSR point ceiling. Even at that level their PSR values bounce up and down off the ceiling. They may go down 1 point on a loss but spring back up on their next victory.

Because matches are based on Tiers, we're trying to make sure that you are playing against people who are around the same level of skill. That being said, breaking into Tier 1 is just a way for us to make sure you never play anyone in tier 4 or 5. Anyone who has a slightly positive Win/Loss ratio should eventually end up in Tier 1 if they are consistent in their play and match performance.

If we were to turn off new player registration/sign-up and just let the current player base play on forever, eventually everyone will bubble up to Tier 2 or Tier 1. That's because with experience comes better player skill. There would still be people in lower Tiers, it's just that that pool of players would be smaller than top Tier players. Lower tier players would end up being those who refuse to adjust to their team's dynamics and play a 1 trick pony type of gameplay.

Clarification 3: PSR changes are biased to make everyone move up.
There is a SLIGHT bit of truth here. That bit is the fact that if you perform VERY well during a match but you still lose, you have the potential of moving up a PSR point.







In the chart above, you can see that winning is the key to move UP in PSR. Your match score determines HOW FAR you move up (or down in case of a loss). As I mentioned above, there is one difference in that getting a very high match score but you and your team lose the match, will still result in a small climb in PSR.

Clarification 4: I can jump from Tier 4 to Tier 3 in my first match on a new account.
That's true, you can. This is because we want to seed new players faster. Much like the cadet C-Bill bonus, we have a multiplier for the first few matches a new player plays. This multiplier degrades over a set number of matches until it drops to standard PSR point changes.

Clarification 5: My low Tier means I'm a horrible player.
That really isn't the case. It's more along the lines of: you are not playing in a team based mind set. Remember, PSR calculations reward team play more than 'Rambo' or 'I'm the hero and will carry my team to victory' play styles. Being in Tier 4/5 means you can now adjust your game play to become more aware of what your team is doing as a whole and working together to get a victory. If you see your PSR progress bar move up, you will know you're getting better at this. Players in Tiers 3/2/1 all have the basics down and the higher the Tier, the more small/micro adjustments these players have made to maximize their ability to play as a team and adjust accordingly.

For example, getting the kill shot has a certain point value assigned to it. This point value is not very high. IF you get a kill shot but also deal the most damage to that target (This is the in-game mini-achievement "Kill Most Damage"), you get much higher points. If you get a solo kill (you did all the damage plus got the kill shot), you get even more points than the previous two.

Another example, if you spot a target and start doing damage and eventually you AND your teammates kill the targeted 'Mech, you are getting points for target assist, kill assist, spotting assist etc which will add up to about the same as a "Kill Most Damage". Add TAG/Narc bonuses to that and you'll be getting the same as a Solo Kill.

The key about the above two examples is that helping/assisting your team is just as valuable in match score (in some cases higher value) as someone doing heavy damage and getting kills. If you want to increase your PSR, start playing as a team. Help your team, hit R and be situationally aware of what's going on on the battle field as well as the mini-map.

I know this clarification doesn't cover everything, but as we've stated before: exact numbers and formulas will be kept internal.

[Shannow]

Unless the playerbase is a lot smaller than we though I still think 5 isn't enough. What if as a bottom ranked tier 2 player you end up in a battle with top ranked tier 1 players. That's a 40% swing in skill difference. I'd rather see 8 or 10 to ensure better matches.

[Falconeer]

I don't see that as a problem, in the solo queue. It's not like the lower tier 2 is gonna face the high tier 1 in a duel. It's a 12-people team game so as long as you put people who know what they are doing (tier 2 up) together you can't really create a tier just for the superstars. And it's random matchmaking anyway, so in what game ever is a matchmaker ever able to create perfect matchups?

The problem arises in the group queue, which is and will always be messy regardless of PSR because it has to play tetris with premade groups in order to fill a squad of 12, and because it has a harder time calculating the average PSR of a group (of 3? of 6? of 8?) and factor that with their ability to play well together as opposed to a bunch of similarly skilled players in the other team who are not as disciplined. But for solo queueing, this is good and will work well enough, in fact it already is. I don't think the playerbase is as thin as some believe. Last weekend event had something like, I believe, 20k entrants. Not gonna kill WoW but not too bad for a game of this budget, that got some disastrous word of mouth, and that is 3 years old.

[Shannow]

I don't see that as a problem, in the solo queue. It's not like the lower tier 2 is gonna face the high tier 1 in a duel. It's a 12-people team game so as long as you put people who know what they are doing (tier 2 up) together you can't really create a tier just for the superstars. And it's random matchmaking anyway, so in what game ever is a matchmaker ever able to create perfect matchups?

Honestly this paragraph made me go eh?

It's not likely that lower tier 2 is going to face high tier 1? Who says so? If there's no shade of difference between a tier 1 and tier 2 (unless they are using some sort of hidden ELO as well then why the fuck do we even have this rank system) then you definitely could have this happen, that's why we need greater than 5 shades. If the player base is big enough then yes you can create a tier for the truely good players. Um the whole point of matchmaking is so that it's NOT random, however only having 5 tiers doesn't introduce a fine enough distinction between players to remove the randomness. (No it won't ever be perfect, maybe I've been playing too much CS:GO lately where the matchmaking is pretty darn good...outside of smurfs and grouped players a Gold Nova 3 is pretty much the same level of skill as other Gold Nova 3's...it's actually pretty remarkable how well a person's rank matches their skill in that game).

This all being said, the upswell of discussion on this board got me to patch the game last night and I might have to take the old Hunchy out for a spin today...Gotta take advantage of my current Tier 4 rank. 

[Falconeer]

I don't see that as a problem, in the solo queue. It's not like the lower tier 2 is gonna face the high tier 1 in a duel. It's a 12-people team game so as long as you put people who know what they are doing (tier 2 up) together you can't really create a tier just for the superstars. And it's random matchmaking anyway, so in what game ever is a matchmaker ever able to create perfect matchups?

Honestly this paragraph made me go eh?

It's not likely that lower tier 2 is going to face high tier 1? Who says so? If there's no shade of difference between a tier 1 and tier 2 (unless they are using some sort of hidden ELO as well then why the fuck do we even have this rank system) then you definitely could have this happen, that's why we need greater than 5 shades. If the player base is big enough then yes you can create a tier for the truely good players. Um the whole point of matchmaking is so that it's NOT random, however only having 5 tiers doesn't introduce a fine enough distinction between players to remove the randomness. (No it won't ever be perfect, maybe I've been playing too much CS:GO lately where the matchmaking is pretty darn good...outside of smurfs and grouped players a Gold Nova 3 is pretty much the same level of skill as other Gold Nova 3's...it's actually pretty remarkable how well a person's rank matches their skill in that game).

This all being said, the upswell of discussion on this board got me to patch the game last night and I might have to take the old Hunchy out for a spin today...Gotta take advantage of my current Tier 4 rank. 

I said: "It's not like the lower tier 2 is gonna face the high tier 1 in a duel." DUEL. It is not a 1v1 game.

[Shannow]

Yes but..ahh fuck it let's go shoot shit.

edit: Nevermind.

How's the Mauler? That thing looked sexy.

[Falconeer]

Some really cool (especially the second part) fan made MechWarrior porn.

[Ironwood]

Christ, if you're gonna make a video, have a point.

[Fordel]

what are the top ten most garbage original mech designs anyway

Visually or Mechanically?

[Lantyssa]

Almost any 3025 'mech was garbage, but it was fighting other garbage, so it was fun.  A custom 'mech would trample a stock.  Mechanically.

Visually, the Ostroc and Ostol, which is funny since they were the match to the beloved Marauder.

[Shannow]

Almost any 3025 'mech was garbage, but it was fighting other garbage, so it was fun.  A custom 'mech would trample a stock.  Mechanically.

Visually, the Ostroc and Ostol, which is funny since they were the match to the beloved Marauder.

Agreed visually. So much fun to drive though with the double punch. The OTL-4F? (iirc) was always a favourite mech on btech mux, dual PPCs and 5/8 speed were handy. (Most fights were long range plinking skirmishes so speed and energy range were key.)

[Falconeer]

So, now you can opt-in to have your PSR (Pilot Skill Rating) to show up in your forum profile for everyone to see. Someone called out the Devs and they have been good sports for the most part showing (or telling) their level. UNSURPRISINGLY, they all suck and especially Paul Inouye the lead designer. All in tier 3 or 4 except for just one fine guy who <claims to be> Tier 1. Granted, they all claim to have another secret account which is higher level but who wouldn't say that in their position?

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/210483-dev-tiers-please/

[Fordel]

Almost any 3025 'mech was garbage, but it was fighting other garbage, so it was fun.  A custom 'mech would trample a stock.  Mechanically.

Visually, the Ostroc and Ostol, which is funny since they were the match to the beloved Marauder.

If I remember right, in 3025 the only weapons anyone 'SHOULD' use are PPC's and Medium Lasers. All the range/damage/heat/crit factors point to those two weapons and everything else being inferior outside of very specific niche scenarios or roles.

That's also boring as sin though.

[Lantyssa]

If you're doing custom builds, those make for the best generalists.  LRMs, SRMs, and auto-cannons have their uses though.

[Fordel]

LRM boats always have a place for fire support thanks to indirect fire.

SRMs and AC's though, they don't really rock anything till they get the fancier ammo and CASE from 3050+. Ultra's and LBX's make shit way more debatable, but that's a different Era.


An AC 10 is what, 12 tons, on a 5/10/15 range bracket doing 10 damage for... 3 heat I think. Now add in a couple tons of ammo and you end up with 14 tons and 9 crits total for the weapon system.

Compare that to a PPC, 7 tons, 6/12/18 range bracket doing 10 damage for 10 heat. Now using the same tonnage, you get to attach 7 crappy single heatsinks for a total of 14 tons and 10 crits (possibly fewer crits depending on engine size, I forget how many sinks get internalized per ton of engine). So now we have a weapon that has the same damage, same heat impact, greater range and no danger of exploding ammo all over your face. The only actual drawback is there is a minimum range on PPCs of 3. /twirl 


But again, making every mech an exercise of max PPC/Ton efficiency and filling in the rest with Medium lasers would make for a very boring game both mechanically and from the lore/setting perspective.

[Lantyssa]

Yes, but single heat-sinks.  A PPC can quickly overwhelm a 'mech's heat scale in 3025.  In lighter 'mechs a PPC probably will be more effective.  In heavier 'mechs though, the autocannons and a bit of diversity start looking good.  You're not intended to fire every weapon every round and most were designed to have different weapons for various ranges.  PPCs were also magical, rare weapons.  'Mechs with them were special.

The 2725 and 3050 supplements really changed the focus of best design.  Efficiency in multiple areas as a lot more common.

[Shannow]

It's interesting that it also depends on what mech game you play. In MWO there is plenty of brawling, partly because of map design, partly because no one really cares about dying so we all rush into the furball (in at least 75% of the matches) so an AC20 for instance is super effective. (love me my meat, urr wait that came out wrong)

In tabletop or MUX where you have time or the consequences of death were harsher you see a lot more range fights so PPCs are the shit. Plus everyone is running DHS. I played one night of '25 tech in MWO and it was eye opening to remember how hot single HS mechs run.

You don't see a lot of PPCs in MWO though due to heat and slowness of shot , it's all ERLL anyways.

Though I will agree that no matter what the game AC10s are shit. 

[Sir T]

if there is one thing that altered the mech design in favour of energy weapons it was double heat sinks. Before that the various weapons were reasonably balanced. After it It became Laser boat city. Especially with the advent of pulse lasers. The low heat values and high damage of autrocannons were very viable in 3025. In 3050 and after they were a waste of time.

putting on a brace of Ned lasers and 2 large lasers would bave been suicidle in 3025. In post 3050 they were the mathematically perfect solution. In a Btech solaris campaign tourney I watched in horror as all but a few people customized their mechs into a 2 ER LL and multiple Med laser configuration.

Double heat sinks pretty much removed all need for non energy weapons in the game as the high heat factor was nullified and the high weight factor in other weapon classes.