Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 18, 2021, 02:27:05 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Movies  |  Topic: Dune!! 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Dune!!  (Read 12337 times)
Chimpy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10311


WWW
Reply #70 on: September 18, 2020, 02:31:37 PM

Heretics of Dune is probably my second favorite behind the original (of the ones Frank wrote.)

Dune Messiah is the worst of the bunch.

God Emperor is definitely a different kind of book than the other ones, I give it 3.6 Roentgen.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 13449


Reply #71 on: September 18, 2020, 02:47:39 PM

God Emperor would be more enjoyable if it were shorter, I think. In some ways, it actually bears comparison with the Foundation novels--it's as if Hari Seldon lived long enough to not only face the Mule, but to deliberately create the Mule in order to free the galaxy from psychohistory. There's some satisfaction to that, but it doesn't come with the pacing and intensity that I think would really make it work--it's a very languid, talky book.
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 13449


Reply #72 on: September 18, 2020, 05:34:55 PM

(Heretics, btw, is actually kinda decent.)
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7901


Reply #73 on: September 18, 2020, 08:37:16 PM

I think they're all worth reading.
calapine
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7246

Solely responsible for the thread on "The Condom Wall."


Reply #74 on: October 05, 2020, 07:09:21 PM

Yeah, there's a steep drop in quality between Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune.  Children of Dune is a fun read.  God Emperor of Dune is a dour, nigh unreadable mess.

Edit #3: I was mean and bitchy and retract what I said.  Heartbreak But maybe give the book another try?
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 07:16:23 PM by calapine »

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
Abagadro
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12138

Possibly the only user with more posts in the Den than PC/Console Gaming.


Reply #75 on: October 05, 2020, 08:04:07 PM

Movie now delayed until October 2021(!).    headache

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
MahrinSkel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10555

When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #76 on: October 05, 2020, 08:25:41 PM

Movie now delayed until October 2021(!).    headache
There won't be any theaters for it to open in by then. The Hocus Pocus re-release was the #2 box office last week, with less than $2M.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
SurfD
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3925


Reply #77 on: October 05, 2020, 11:37:16 PM

There won't be any theaters for it to open in by then. The Hocus Pocus re-release was the #2 box office last week, with less than $2M.

--Dave
Unfortunately, you can expect more of that unless Hollywood decides to throw us a bone or two.   My theater has been open for about two months now.  We haven't had a new "Big Picture" style hollywood movie release since Tenant, which was like a month ago.   Even with capacity limits (Ontario has us capped at 50 people max in an auditorium), we are lucky if we see 50 people through our building on a good day during the weekdays.  To put that into perspective, a typical monday pre-covid we would expect to do 600-800 people.  On a typical Saturday, we could easily put 4000+ people through the building.   We are lucky if we put 1500 people through the building in an entire week now (which I guarantee is entirely unsustainable for a multiplex building with 16 screens.... so I really don't want to know what is going on in the boardrooms of the company at the CEO level as this drags on.)  

Unless Hollywood is willing to throw us something to draw bodies with, you are right, there might not BE any theaters for them to release into when the time comes.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 11:41:20 PM by SurfD »

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
Velorath
Contributor
Posts: 8610


Reply #78 on: October 05, 2020, 11:49:57 PM

There will be theaters when there are vaccines and people feel safe to go back. Some of them just might be owned by other companies at that point which is what the big chains in particular are actually afraid of when they plead for studios to release product. Even if all the theaters were to shut down tomorrow, all those buildings with all those projectors and all those seats are going to be around because there’s nothing else viable to do with those spaces right now.

Maybe the thought of someone like Amazon or various studios buying up theaters isn’t particularly pleasant, but at the end of the day that would probably be the better option than trying to push this reopening when people clearly aren’t feeling comfortable returning.
Abagadro
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12138

Possibly the only user with more posts in the Den than PC/Console Gaming.


Reply #79 on: October 06, 2020, 12:01:40 AM

Antitrust enforcement is so lax right now the studios are probably salivating over picking them up for some sweet, sweet vertical integration.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 41997

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #80 on: October 06, 2020, 10:16:31 AM

The studios can probably afford to lose the money by sitting on releases, rather than putting them out to theaters where absolutely no one in their right fucking mind wants to go right now. Without any sort of actual government intervention, the theater chain industry is utterly and completely fucked.

Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 13449


Reply #81 on: October 06, 2020, 11:54:59 AM

If I was a theater chain, I'd be taking out some loans to:

a) open some new (relatively cheap, quick) drive-ins
b) temporarily shut some formerly high-traffic venues to remake them in the Alamo Drafthouse model--fewer seats, some at tables, with booze and food, reserved seating, with the intention of showing older movies Mon-Wed night as 'events'.

Chimpy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10311


WWW
Reply #82 on: October 06, 2020, 01:04:49 PM

The current evolution of the movie theater is kind of a parallel to the DUNE story.

Starts as a fuedal system (few multiplexes) with intermingled financial ties, moves into a set of vertically integrated top-down system with power in the hands of a few comeptitors, to a system where a single entity rules it all, to everything exploding out into a scattering of smaller entities fighting for scraps.  why so serious?

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 13449


Reply #83 on: October 06, 2020, 06:14:26 PM

I ain't going to Harkonnen Theater Chain, that much I'm sure of.
Chimpy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10311


WWW
Reply #84 on: October 06, 2020, 08:16:16 PM

I ain't going to Harkonnen Theater Chain, that much I'm sure of.


That is AMC. Harkonnens were part of the fuedal phase.  DRILLING AND WOMANLINESS

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 13449


Reply #85 on: July 22, 2021, 06:18:29 PM

New trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g18jFHCLXk

I think it looks super promising.
Hawkbit
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5475

Like a Klansman in the ghetto.


Reply #86 on: July 22, 2021, 07:25:06 PM

All the art decoration look amazing, like the first time we are able to present the world creation visually how it should look. It looks as if they’re playing with the story and trying to make relatable hooks for non-fans, which is fucking irritating. Not because I’m a super fan (I am, hipster moment), but because the story is great enough that it doesn’t need to be brought into the future.

Oh man, my wife/gf would never understand that reference, better make sure we distill it down enough so we can get two movie ticket sales instead of just one.
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 13449


Reply #87 on: July 22, 2021, 07:30:52 PM

I think what they're doing is focusing the story on something that was there powerfully, which is "the Fremen are oppressed, sitting on top of oil melange and here comes Lawrence of Arabia to help." I think they're super aware that if you do that in a clumsy way you end up with "Desert Avatar" where the Harkonnens are just Colonel Quaritch etc etc.--I see a lot of signs that they're going to try and deepen and complicate that part of the story.

It looks to me as if the movie breaks the story where Paul and Chani are together, he and his mother are spice-adapted, etc., which is a break point in the novel, too.
Chimpy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10311


WWW
Reply #88 on: July 22, 2021, 08:30:41 PM

The ages of Paul and Chani look pretty much right, the ornithopters have flapping wings (though the dragonfly rate of flapping seemed a bit meh, the added sound effect I caught was nice), the clip of the baron floating looked good.

One of the unfortunate things is that they can't even take the parts of the production design of the Lynch version that really worked and use them because of how much angst there is against that movie as a whole. The navigator floating in the tank in the Lynch film was great, the stillsuits (minus not having hoods/masks) were pretty much perfect, and the sandworms while primitive as special effects go looked "correct" to me. None of that weird spiky shit from the SyFy thing.

Also, I hope they keep Irulan as narrator to tie back to the little bits of political context at the beginning of each chapter in the book.

Fingers crossed that it will be decent and make enough that they finish the rest of the sequels.

Mildly excite.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 13449


Reply #89 on: July 22, 2021, 09:14:21 PM

I see what they're not letting us see:

The Navigators/Guild. Maybe they shouldn't; we never really see them in the first book at all, I think?
The Bene Gesserit. Obviously we are gonna see them, but showing them starts to tip the hand towards the mysticism content of the book.
The Fremen/sandworms past the point of the Harkonnen attack (though there's one Stilgar shot and one big sandworm image, as well as a few hooks/rider images). Good, leave all that out of the preview.
I liked the only-brief glimpses of the Sardaukar, Baron Harkonnen himself. I don't think we saw Feyd-Rautha.

The design work looks fantastic--they do a great job with the shield belt/knife fighting.

I'm in for this. I can't imagine it being actively bad; I can only imagine it falling short of possibility.
Ruvaldt
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2391

Goat Variations


Reply #90 on: July 22, 2021, 11:58:19 PM

I see what they're not letting us see:

The Navigators/Guild. Maybe they shouldn't; we never really see them in the first book at all, I think?

Navigators are mentioned in the first book but don't actually show up until Dune Messiah.  Holding them back makes sense to me because if they get around to a third film Edric would definitely be in it.

Yeah, this looks like it should be good.  I'm a fan of Villeneuve and a big part of getting Dune right is art direction.  They've definitely done that.  After Blade Runner 2049 I was sure he'd nail that part.

"For a long time now I have tried simply to write the best I can. Sometimes I have good luck and write better than I can." - Ernest Hemingway
Setanta
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1415


Reply #91 on: July 23, 2021, 05:20:15 AM

I really didn't think that Momoa was a good choice for Duncan. Having just watched the recent trailer, I'm starting to think that he is a great choice. I'm prepared to give it a go.

I have a habit of binging the books every couple of years, even the ones written by his son which are readable, fill in some blanks, but not great.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 41997

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #92 on: July 23, 2021, 06:31:04 PM

Yeah, this looks like it should be good.  I'm a fan of Villeneuve and a big part of getting Dune right is art direction.  They've definitely done that.  After Blade Runner 2049 I was sure he'd nail that part.

Not to digress, but art direction was totally not the problem with Blade Runner 2049. It was gorgeous. Everything wrong with that movie came from having to be a sequel to Blade Runner (and Jared Leto). Make it a story about a slowly disintegrating clone cop and his virtual girlfriend and you have a movie for the ages.

He's one of the few directors I'd bet on to make Dune a hit. It's not just a hard book to film because it's so sprawling and massive, and there are lots of dangerous locations to have to work with. It's also hard because the characters are fairly flat for the most part. I said in Discord the other night that I thought Dune was a great concept that is impossible to execute as a story, and that's mostly due to the fact that it has to try to stretch human thought into a very inhuman thought process time frame. Seeing humans as chess pieces across millennia is just not something even the best writer can put down on paper.

Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 13449


Reply #93 on: July 23, 2021, 06:52:22 PM

I'm pretty sure that closer to launch we're going to get a Bene Gesserit/Kwisatz Haderach-ish mystical-heavy trailer. I don't think that element is going to get ignored in favor of explosions. If the first two movies are a success, it's what takes you into some kind of adaptation of Dune Messiah, e.g., Paul condemning the entire idea of a messianic hero/white savior.
SurfD
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3925


Reply #94 on: July 24, 2021, 02:57:31 AM

Seeing humans as chess pieces across millennia is just not something even the best writer can put down on paper.
Yeah, I can see this being something of an issue, as one of the core themes of Dune was the time-span of their history.   The millennia long Bene Gesserit breeding program.  The equally long planetary migrations, oppression and flight from oppression that produced the Fremen.  And most important of all, Paul's semi-prescient knowledge that a form of manifest-destiny-as-human-nature is literally attempting to steer his every action towards igniting a universe spanning Jihad of chaos and change.   If they really want to properly capture Dune, they need to somehow capture at least some of that feeling where Paul is constantly struggling to actually remain at the wheel of his own life, rather than being a passenger as universal destiny pushes him around.

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 13449


Reply #95 on: July 24, 2021, 09:57:21 AM

Imagine being someone with Paul's powers, including his persuasive abilities and his access to potentially overwhelming military assets in 1924. You can see where fossil fuels are going to take humanity--they're already driving British and French colonialism in the Middle East, already driving the creation of vast fortunes in the US and elsewhere, but you can see what at that moment no one else can, that even as they've come to seem utterly indispensible, they're going to fuel a runaway global catastrophe by the mid-21st Century. You can see only three paths forward: a global war against industrialization fought by a worldwide movement of religious and cultural fanatics, maneuvering to create a global empire through controlling one major nation-state and then imposing tight controls on fossil fuels while pushing renewables, or just letting shit happen the way it's going to. I think we could all understand now why that person would be in a terrible situation.
Chimpy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10311


WWW
Reply #96 on: July 24, 2021, 07:17:36 PM

I'm pretty sure that closer to launch we're going to get a Bene Gesserit/Kwisatz Haderach-ish mystical-heavy trailer. I don't think that element is going to get ignored in favor of explosions. If the first two movies are a success, it's what takes you into some kind of adaptation of Dune Messiah, e.g., Paul condemning the entire idea of a messianic hero/white savior.


They showed the test to be human in the first trailer they released. I bitched about the gom jabbar looking like a fucking cross pen. Pretty sure it also talked about the "shortening of the way", etc in that first trailer.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 07:20:35 PM by Chimpy »

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 13449


Reply #97 on: July 25, 2021, 07:27:17 PM

Yeah, I don't see Villeneuve just chucking all that for a colonialism-is-bad-white-saviorism movie full of explosions. The backend mysticism is the only thing that keeps it from being "Avatar except on a desert planet". Doesn't matter if Dune came before Avatar, if it's just Paul saving Fremen out of the goodness of his scrawny heart, it's going to be as watched once-and-forgotten as Avatar was.
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7901


Reply #98 on: July 26, 2021, 08:08:50 AM

Good trailer.

Doesn't feel like Dune to me still but I enjoyed Blade Runner 2049 and this should be better than that.
Sir T
Terracotta Army
Posts: 13840


Reply #99 on: July 29, 2021, 04:30:26 PM

I see what they're not letting us see:

The Navigators/Guild. Maybe they shouldn't; we never really see them in the first book at all, I think?

Navigators are mentioned in the first book but don't actually show up until Dune Messiah.  Holding them back makes sense to me because if they get around to a third film Edric would definitely be in it.

Navigators were in the throne room in the last few pages. Its mentioned of them looking at Paul as they hit the block in the future sight that he had been seeing, becasue they could only see a few minutes into the future whereas he could see far further, so they didn't notice the point after whicj you could not see the future till it was nearly there.

I didnt really like Dune. The character I actually found most interesting was actually the Baron, as he seemed the most Human with real motivations and you could understand where he came from. Paul I thought had an inner voice like a Robot but when they revealed he was being trained as a Mentat that made sense. I kinda liked the universe as well but after finishing I had no desire to read it again. I just put it as "ok" but I couldn't see what the fuss was about. Not my bag, I suppose. Never read any of the others.

I thought the film was a lot of fun and visually stunning, but I couldn't understand what the eff was going on through most of it. One of the reason I read the book was to try and figure out the film.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
Tale
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8302

sıɥʇ ǝʞıן sʞןɐʇ


Reply #100 on: September 05, 2021, 09:00:58 AM

lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7901


Reply #101 on: September 05, 2021, 11:11:32 PM

Sounds like the author is so in love with the idea of dune that anything would have sufficed. I didn't get much more than waffle from that review.
Velorath
Contributor
Posts: 8610


Reply #102 on: September 05, 2021, 11:22:09 PM

As I mentioned on Discord, my main takeaway from these reviews is to really go in expecting "Dune: Part 1" and with the understanding that "Dune: Part 2" not currently in production or even greenlit yet.


From Rotten Tomatoes.

Quote
DOES IT FEEL UNFINISHED?
“The film is ultimately a long and overwrought prologue — a prelude to action rather than its own autonomous story.” – Richard Lawson, Vanity Fair

“The real meal doesn’t really begin until Part Two, and that’s probably one of the minor disappointments of its inconclusive finale.” – Rodrigo Perez, The Playlist

“It does wind up feeling incomplete… like the serving of a decadent and delicious appetizer that comes out while the epic entrée to come is still braising in the kitchen.” – Eric Eisenberg, Cinema Blend

“It feels so completely sure of itself and so legitimately stunning, that it’s a huge shame that the next chapter is in fact subject to the whims of the marketplace… Surely, there has to be more.” – Catherine Bray, Film of the Week

“To be left dangling without Dune: Part Two would be a particular heartbreak. Here’s hoping we won’t only be seeing it in our dreams.” – Ben Travis, Empire Magazine

IS IT DIFFICULT TO ASSESS THIS FIRST CHAPTER ON ITS OWN?
“It will require reassessment when the rest of the director’s vision is revealed – and if there is a movie god, we’ll see that happen sooner rather than later.” – Eric Eisenberg, Cinema Blend

“What could happen in the future isn’t something you can think about when critiquing a movie though. There’s this movie, this story, and if it doesn’t work on its own, that would problem. It’s not a problem here.” – Germain Lussier, io9.com
Abagadro
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12138

Possibly the only user with more posts in the Den than PC/Console Gaming.


Reply #103 on: September 06, 2021, 12:56:45 AM

Please don't flop. Please don't flop.

(fully expecting it to flop)

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Velorath
Contributor
Posts: 8610


Reply #104 on: September 06, 2021, 02:04:59 AM

Going to be hard to determine flop status because of the HBO Max release.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Movies  |  Topic: Dune!!  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC