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Author Topic: Star Wars 9 : The Rise of Skywalker  (Read 135328 times)
Draegan
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Reply #735 on: April 21, 2020, 02:08:28 PM

Enough.  This thread has been locked.


Worth a shot.
LOL.

I haven't watched it yet (waiting for Disney+), though I guess I could lock it and then reopen it after I do.


Some people are guessing it comes to Disney+ on May 4th.
Goumindong
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Reply #736 on: April 21, 2020, 05:18:58 PM

Nowhere in all of TFA is a single thing said about Luke cutting himself off from the Force. All that is really said is the part you quoted, that he went looking for the first Jedi Temple. Anyway, you've rewritten TFA in your head so that TLJ magically didn't change things. So, I'm done here.

Does it matter that he had? What difference does it make when the fundamental construction is plain as day? Is it out of character from what you know in TFA? (Or ESB... where Luke runs off to save his friends despite Yoda telling him it would doom everyone. Oe RotJ when Yoda concedes that Luke was right?) Does Luke show up to save the day in TFA and that was left on the cutting room floor?

I still dont know these things that were re-written in TLJ. I am going to presume they dont exist and youre just unwilling to back down from a dumb claim.
jgsugden
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Reply #737 on: April 21, 2020, 05:22:51 PM

...
Does it matter that he had? What difference does it make when the fundamental construction is plain as day? ...
Plain as day?  Would you do me a kindness and go back and find any articles discussing Luke cutting himself off from the force from before December 2017?  If it was plain as day, it must have been discussed a lot.  My failure to find it is just my poor Google skills, I'm sure.  I'm sure I'm just forgetting all of this discussion as well.  Silly me.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Riggswolfe
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Reply #738 on: April 21, 2020, 05:28:14 PM

Nowhere in all of TFA is a single thing said about Luke cutting himself off from the Force. All that is really said is the part you quoted, that he went looking for the first Jedi Temple. Anyway, you've rewritten TFA in your head so that TLJ magically didn't change things. So, I'm done here.

Does it matter that he had? What difference does it make when the fundamental construction is plain as day? Is it out of character from what you know in TFA? (Or ESB... where Luke runs off to save his friends despite Yoda telling him it would doom everyone. Oe RotJ when Yoda concedes that Luke was right?) Does Luke show up to save the day in TFA and that was left on the cutting room floor?

I still dont know these things that were re-written in TLJ. I am going to presume they dont exist and youre just unwilling to back down from a dumb claim.

You're literally the only person I've met who makes these claims. This includes Rian Johnson. I can't find it now but there's an interview where he mentions that JJ gave him plot notes and he decided not to use most of them and do his own thing because he wanted to deconstruct Star Wars.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/04/13/star-wars-editor-details-rian-johnsons-the-last-jedi-attempted-to-consciously-undo-the-force-awakens/

Quote
Markey didn’t beat around the bush. She stated, “I couldn’t agree more. It’s very strange to have the second film so consciously undo the story of the first one. That’s what it felt like.”

Also, there's the fairly famous quote of Mark Hamill saying he disagreed with every decision Rian Johnson made for Luke. He later made nice and said he was wrong but you could more or less see Disney standing behind him with a gun.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
BobtheSomething
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Reply #739 on: April 21, 2020, 06:58:08 PM

...
Does it matter that he had? What difference does it make when the fundamental construction is plain as day? ...
Plain as day?  Would you do me a kindness and go back and find any articles discussing Luke cutting himself off from the force from before December 2017?  If it was plain as day, it must have been discussed a lot.  My failure to find it is just my poor Google skills, I'm sure.  I'm sure I'm just forgetting all of this discussion as well.  Silly me.

Leia couldn’t find him with the force.  Neither could Ren or Snoke.  We might not have known he’d cut himself off from the force, but we damn well knew he’d cut himself off from the galaxy and that the force wasn’t giving him away. 
jgsugden
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Reply #740 on: April 21, 2020, 07:18:24 PM

Leia couldn’t find him with the force.  Neither could Ren or Snoke.  We might not have known he’d cut himself off from the force, but we damn well knew he’d cut himself off from the galaxy and that the force wasn’t giving him away. 
.Again, if plain as day, where is any discussion of it?

Oh, and do you remember how Vader, the Chosen One,  just went straight to Yoda and Obi-wan before epsideo 4 to murder them because he could sense them with the force?  Neither do I.

You're making up shit to try to support an argument that is a joke to almost everyone outside of you two.  The people that made the movies, for fuck sake, disagree with you - about what they were making.  99.8% of the fans vehemently disagree with you. 

And we should not make a single god damn post more about this shit show of a trilogy. 

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Goumindong
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Reply #741 on: April 21, 2020, 08:25:02 PM

The people who made the movies don't seemed to have watched them. From the article they seem to think that RoS didn't attempt to undo anything in TLJ... As an example.
IainC
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Reply #742 on: April 22, 2020, 12:32:29 AM

<words>

How are you so consistently wrong on so many topics? I really am struggling to think of anyone who's calibrated to magnetic wrong as precisely as you.

This was from page 11. Page 11 folks. Why does Goumndong's gimmick still manage to catch people?

- And in stranger Iains, even Death may die -

SerialForeigner Photography.
Cyrrex
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Reply #743 on: April 22, 2020, 01:28:38 AM

<words>

How are you so consistently wrong on so many topics? I really am struggling to think of anyone who's calibrated to magnetic wrong as precisely as you.

This was from page 11. Page 11 folks. Why does Goumndong's gimmick still manage to catch people?

I don't know what his gimmick is, because I don't read the majority of his posts.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
eldaec
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Reply #744 on: April 22, 2020, 05:56:29 AM

 Just lots of super earnest words that don't pay attention to anything anyone he talking to writes, often telling people who do know about a subject that they are wrong.

You aren't missing anything.

I broadly agree with him here but his posting is making me think I must be missing something.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Sir T
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Reply #745 on: April 22, 2020, 07:02:19 AM

All I can say is that I am really sad that "Caravan of Courage: The Ewok Adventure" and "Ewoks: The battle for Endor," were on no-one Star wars Movie lists.  Heartbreak

I might see this so I can give you the "Has not watched any Star Wars Movie since the Fandom Penance" view.

Oh ya, on that, Liam Neeson was good because it was obvious that he just ignored Lucas's shitty directing, and I honestly thought I was watching Morris Dancing at that fight at the end. If I want to see dancing I'll watch Strictly Ballroom.


Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
Hoax
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Reply #746 on: April 28, 2020, 12:01:10 AM

I have seen [TFA & TLJ] a half a dozen times. There really isn't much of anything changed from TFA to TLJ.

 ACK!
 ACK!
 ACK!
 ACK!
 ACK!
 ACK!

TIL you are mentally retarded.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Abagadro
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Reply #747 on: April 28, 2020, 01:51:34 PM

I'm just sad that the Auralnauts Laser Moon saga wasn't on anyone's list.  It's easily # 3 for me.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Riggswolfe
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Reply #748 on: April 28, 2020, 03:22:40 PM

Been watching the Clone Wars final season and all I can think over and over again is "Why isn't Dave Filoni the Kevin Feige of Star Wars?"  Also "Holy shit this is awesome."

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Khaldun
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Reply #749 on: April 28, 2020, 04:27:09 PM

If he doesn't want to do it, he's essentially what they need: a person who gets the overall universe and has a sense of what stories it can or should be made to tell.
Samwise
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Reply #750 on: May 04, 2020, 08:41:37 PM

Now that this is streaming, I finally watched it, kind of, in the background while I did something else.  The parts I was paying attention to made me laugh my ass off.  I think it's my favorite of the sequels because it seems to be consistently flamboyantly bad instead of having long stretches of uninspired boredom.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Mosesandstick
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Reply #751 on: May 05, 2020, 02:58:59 PM

Had an (online) movie night with some friends yesterday.  The only thing I can add that's new to the conversation is the GF's perspective. Basically the movie started enjoyable but she got bored and it kept dragging on. I don't think the movie made sense to her, but she didn't find it confusing or infuriating either. This was the only Star Wars movie she's seen, which is ironic (or appropriate) as she works for Disney.
Khaldun
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Reply #752 on: May 05, 2020, 03:51:34 PM

This is what I heard from a couple of friends who've never bothered with Star Wars and happened to see RoS--they were just bored by it. One of them said that it just seemed kind of needlessly frantic but that nothing felt like it was actually telling a story with a beginning middle and ending.
jgsugden
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Reply #753 on: May 05, 2020, 03:54:08 PM

And that is true of 6 of the 9 movies in my opinion.  They picked 3 moments they wanted to have take place, connected them as awkwardly as they could and went forward. 

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Khaldun
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Reply #754 on: May 05, 2020, 06:39:47 PM

I don't actually think it's true of the prequels. Those have other problems, but whatever they are, they're not cynical or calculated or driven by suits. In a way, they're actually deeply weird--certainly the work of of an "auteur" who wanted things just the way he wanted them. (More's the pity.)
jgsugden
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Reply #755 on: May 05, 2020, 07:27:44 PM

But are they needlessly frantic with no real story?

Look, we have to fight out of a ship, then fight through a forest, then do a high speed sea chase through the planet, and then do another battle, and then there is a pod race, because everything needs a pod race, and then we go have space battles, with a kid pilot! 

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
MediumHigh
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Reply #756 on: May 05, 2020, 09:02:19 PM

The prequals are bad movies, but their not bad star wars stories. If someone went back and actually worked on the dialogue and pacing they'd work just fine. Which is why people come around and call them "good" movies because you're ultimately getting star wars...just not the polished work of a multitude of talented people original trilogy star wars george lucas took credit for.

7-9 however is star wars done through the most shallowest of lenses with no inspiration or care for anything besides the money it will make if certain lines or scenes are shot. They are "good" movies from a technical perspective. Good pace, good dialogue and acting. They "look" like movies made this decade which is enough to get it reviewed well but their bad stories regardless of which opinion you have between Ryan Johnson or JJ Abrams or Kathleen Kennedy. Their all took turns taking a shit on star wars, some from different heights or from different angles.
HaemishM
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Reply #757 on: May 05, 2020, 09:24:32 PM

Rise of Skywalker is NOT a good movie by technical standards. The editing alone is enough to disprove that statement.

eldaec
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Reply #758 on: May 06, 2020, 04:03:31 AM

I'd suggest the prequels are also bad star wars stories.  Or at least not great.

But they do a good job of world building. Even if sometimes it is just Liam Neeson or Terence Stamp reading background notes. I cannot imagine for one moment something like clone wars coming out of the sequels. I don't think it is a surprise that Mandalorian is well away from the movies.

I wouldn't describe the prequels as frantic. They are certainly better paced than ROS or TFA.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 04:12:36 AM by eldaec »

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"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
MediumHigh
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Reply #759 on: May 06, 2020, 06:20:26 AM

Rise of Skywalker is NOT a good movie by technical standards. The editing alone is enough to disprove that statement.

Granted I skipped RoS entirely and no one whose opinion I respect critically liked it.... but I did see people who normally like disney star wars comment on the story sucking balls. Which is to say the shiny JJ Abrams gloss he puts on everything to give it a "modern spin" couldn't overcome his inability to craft a narrative. For all intent and purposes the shit I complained about in The Force Awakens were thrown into hyper drive for Rise of Skywalker to the point where even normal audiences had to stop and notice.
Draegan
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Reply #760 on: May 06, 2020, 07:37:08 AM

My favorite part of the movie is still that you needed an ancient sith dagger to match up with the profile of a 30 year old death star wreck.
Sir T
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Reply #761 on: May 06, 2020, 07:42:39 AM

Hey it was a cool idea in his DND campaign

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
Khaldun
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Reply #762 on: May 06, 2020, 08:39:10 AM

By that point in the movie I was super-bored, profoundly antagonized and bitterly cynical about everything on screen and that bit STILL got me eyerolling so hard that I nearly injured myself.
Samwise
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Reply #763 on: May 06, 2020, 09:32:53 AM

By that point in the movie I was super-bored, profoundly antagonized and bitterly cynical about everything on screen and that bit STILL got me eyerolling so hard that I nearly injured myself.

I'm serious when I say I enjoyed the experience of watching this movie more than the previous two.  When something goes just over the top on the stupidity, you can enjoy being surprised by how stupid it is.  It's a lot more entertaining that something that's only half-assedly stupid.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Speedy Cerviche
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Reply #764 on: May 06, 2020, 10:11:16 AM

Story was  bad overall but it was better a better film than the 2nd at least, better humour and pacing so I thought the entertainment factor was reasonable although wouldn't have watched it if it was not Star Wars.
Riggswolfe
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Reply #765 on: May 06, 2020, 10:31:15 AM

Story was  bad overall but it was better a better film than the 2nd at least, better humour and pacing so I thought the entertainment factor was reasonable although wouldn't have watched it if it was not Star Wars.

The Last Jedi is better paced and filmed but my god the story in it is so hamfisted and it does nothing to move the trilogy forward. I will always wonder what could have been if this trilogy had a coherent plan for all 3 movies. Instead we got 3 movies that sort of feel like they're from 2 different trilogies, hell, maybe even 2 different genres.

TFA: Look, you didn't like the prequels! We're going to go out of our way to say this is like the old Star Wars!
TLJ: Forget the last movie. We're going to deconstruct Star Wars while also wasting two out of three of our leads in hamfisted arcs.
ROS:  Forget the last movie. We're going to try to finish this all up with all the OT characters dead either in universe or RL and a middle movie that was from a totally different storyline.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Draegan
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Reply #766 on: May 06, 2020, 10:43:38 AM

I still rank them 7 9 8. TFA was actually a fun star wars movie. It introduced characters I was interested in and set them on a quest. It set up a big bad guy and got me thinking.

My only issue with the first one was that Kylo and all the Imperials looked like clowns and babies. With a good writer and mind for these things, Kylo could have become a force in the second movie to rival Vader because A) a good story can do that and B) Adam Driver is a fantastic actor.

The Imperials looked better in the following movies except for General Dumbass. You don't need comedy of character in Imperials. They did them just fine in nearly every other new gen movie.

Speedy Cerviche
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Reply #767 on: May 06, 2020, 11:32:41 AM

Story was  bad overall but it was better a better film than the 2nd at least, better humour and pacing so I thought the entertainment factor was reasonable although wouldn't have watched it if it was not Star Wars.

The Last Jedi is better paced and filmed but my god the story in it is so hamfisted and it does nothing to move the trilogy forward. I will always wonder what could have been if this trilogy had a coherent plan for all 3 movies. Instead we got 3 movies that sort of feel like they're from 2 different trilogies, hell, maybe even 2 different genres.

TFA: Look, you didn't like the prequels! We're going to go out of our way to say this is like the old Star Wars!
TLJ: Forget the last movie. We're going to deconstruct Star Wars while also wasting two out of three of our leads in hamfisted arcs.
ROS:  Forget the last movie. We're going to try to finish this all up with all the OT characters dead either in universe or RL and a middle movie that was from a totally different storyline.

I can understand TFA because Disney just dropped $4 billion on the license and wanted to be conservative with the launch but the rest...yeah

Been discussed I'm sure but the spectacularly bad work of JJ Abrams with BOTH Star Wars & Star Trek is quite something to behold. How this guy was given so much control over two of the most valuable cinema universes out there by two different studios is really mind boggling. Since that first decent Star Trek reboot movie it's now been a decade of one underperforming letdown film after another, how is he still around?

Disney would have to be brain dead now not to turn control all over control to Jon Favreau who has come out with the best big budget Star Wars production since the 1970s.
Khaldun
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Reply #768 on: May 06, 2020, 12:14:08 PM

Abrams is one of a couple of people where I simply don't understand why franchise holders go to him and to the cloud of frequent collaborators he works with. I think it's got to be a case of:

a) suits who own a franchise that they neither really understand nor care much about beyond its financial potential
b) suits prefer a director who can deliver on-time, on-budget and talks their language--and is reasonably obedient to corporate dictate and friendly to plans for ancillary profit from toys, merchandise, etc

I think he accommodates the unfamiliarity and he knows how to pitch to the suits. I think his scriptwriting collaborators bring scripts in on time and make changes without fussing or ego. I think this is why people like Akiva Goldsman keep getting similar gigs despite having written turd after turd--efficiency, obedience to corporate dictate, an ability to pitch to what the suits think the market opportunity is, and probably a good sense of how to blame someone else when a particular franchise adaptation doesn't work out.

For a long time, this all worked because there wasn't something to point to and say: you can do better. The few improbable franchise hits like the first Pirates of the Caribbean ended up looking like lightning in a bottle because the people who made the first hit had trouble reprising their success. But now Feige and the MCU have shown that you can in fact do better. I mean, Abrams was given an appealing cast for his Star Trek reboot, he made a first film that a lot of people at least enjoyed despite its unnecessary fucking around with time travel and its adjustments to Kirk's character. But his basic laziness as a storyteller and his basic disinterest in the best elements of a given franchise means that he can't sustain anything--it's all misbegotten set pieces, narrative misfires, bad fanfic twists, unsustainable gimmicks and a kind of lethal contempt for all parts of his audience that can't help but leak through into the finished product. (Another thing that probably endears him to the suits, who hate all this shit anyway.)
Draegan
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Reply #769 on: May 06, 2020, 02:48:34 PM

Quote
ACADEMY AWARD WINNER TAIKA WAITITI TO DIRECT AND CO-WRITE NEW STAR WARS FEATURE FILM FOR THEATRICAL RELEASE; OSCAR NOMINEE KRYSTY WILSON-CAIRNS TO CO-WRITE SCREENPLAY WITH WAITIT

https://www.starwars.com/news/taika-waititi-announce
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