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Author Topic: Legion Pre-Expansion Patch Hits - everything changes  (Read 95784 times)
Rokal
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Reply #175 on: September 16, 2016, 04:34:41 PM

I'm curious what Talents you guys are using for Assassination. I haven't spent a ton of time playing as it on my Rogue alt, since I actually enjoy Outlaw, but I never felt like kills took too long or that I was too fragile when I did play it up to 105.

Marked for Death is the talent that I felt made the biggest impact for the spec, since it lets you set up all your bleeds on a target and then Exsanguinate within a few GCDs of starting a fight. Single targets die fast and taking on 2-3 mobs hasn't been a problem since you can just Mark the next target immediately for a free 5 point combo. Here is what I'm using for reference.
Merusk
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Reply #176 on: September 16, 2016, 05:12:19 PM

Nothing I can think of, except maybe warriors are more careful about resoures? IDK I don't tank as one. When I do Blood for world quests/ elites it doesn't feel like I'm managing anything, though. Just waiting on Cooldowns to come up.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Draegan
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Reply #177 on: September 17, 2016, 10:55:43 AM

No one else doing disc priest? I can't die in suramar and I'm only ilvl 802. I'm sure my kill speed is slow.
Khaldun
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Reply #178 on: September 18, 2016, 09:56:22 AM

Yeah, I switched to Outlaw right away, I could see already that Assassination, which I'd been playing for a long time, was fucked. Subtlety seems like it's still for PvP?
Ginaz
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Reply #179 on: September 18, 2016, 12:32:11 PM

Yeah, I switched to Outlaw right away, I could see already that Assassination, which I'd been playing for a long time, was fucked. Subtlety seems like it's still for PvP?


People are making way too many assumptions about classes based on just the dungeons.  I think we need a month or 3 of raids to make any real decisions.  The dps my assassination rogue was doing in dungeons seemed low until you took a look at the numbers it was doing on bosses.  It was at least double what everyone else was doing.  It's not a good spec for trash mobs or topping the dps meters but thats only because it has poor aoe skills and the bleeds take too long to ramp up before the mobs die.  General questing and leveling is probably better as an outlaw because it doesn't take long to kill mobs normally and your improved aoe lets you kill more of them than the other 2 specs.  I didn't care for sub at all so I haven't gone back to it since I got the artifact weapon.
Xanthippe
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Reply #180 on: September 23, 2016, 12:17:31 PM

No one else doing disc priest? I can't die in suramar and I'm only ilvl 802. I'm sure my kill speed is slow.

Yes, my first character is disc priest. Killing things is slow, but not dying while doing it makes it satisfying. I switch to holy for dungeons because 1) it's cheap to unlock other artifacts until level 12 or 13 or whenever it goes up to 6k+, and 2) it's less hectic and I haven't yet gotten the hang of disc healing for groups of random idiots who like to stand in shit and tanks who don't use mitigation.

Wait until you hit the elites. You will die sometimes.
SurfD
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Reply #181 on: September 24, 2016, 05:17:21 AM

That suramar city elite zone is super fucking evil.    It needs about half the detector mobs removed.  Practically impossible to get anywhere important in there without aggroing half the city.

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Xanthippe
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Reply #182 on: September 25, 2016, 09:22:43 AM

Buy items from Jacin in the Waning Crescent to make it easier.


Azuredream
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Reply #183 on: September 25, 2016, 09:35:10 AM

If you're in the elite zone it's a bitch and a half to get around until you've memorized the best ways to evade the guards but outside of that part of the city it's not so bad. There are Inconspicuous Bags or whatever they're called that you can jump into to immediately deaggro everything. It lets you reapply your disguise before you jump back out also. If you ever break your disguise (especially in the Waning Crescent southern area) there is generally one of those nearby to hide in.

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luckton
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Reply #184 on: September 25, 2016, 03:01:19 PM

Unless you're a tank, doing the WQs in that elite zone is harsh regardless of your disguise. But then the WQs are designated rare/blue, so they design them with the intent that'd you'd be doing them in a small group or at least a duo.

Tried my hand at Normal Emerald Nightmare. Managed to down the first few bosses, but the last three are just a pain in the ass mechanic-wise for me to care about doing/wasting time on between work and family stuffs. Will probably just wait for LFR to complete the quests I have and concentrate more on Mythic+.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Paelos
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Reply #185 on: September 27, 2016, 09:33:41 AM

Having to quest to get your profession recipes is one of the worst things they've implemented in crafting in a long time.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Rokal
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Reply #186 on: September 27, 2016, 01:35:03 PM

Most of the professions seem genuinely awful in Legion.

My Shaman is a JC. Currently I'm wearing 0 pieces of gear with gem sockets. The world quests that give me better recipe ranks involve crafting jewelry items that cost 400-500g worth of materials to make, in order to receive a more efficient version of a leveling gear recipe (both in level req and ilvl) that nobody will buy. You could invest 10s of thousands of gold into Obliterum to get those items up to an ilvl appropriate for a level 110 character and they would still be worse than rewards from a world quest that takes ~2 minutes to complete.

Prospecting stacks of Felslate that sell for ~10k on the AH yields typically 1-3 rare gems. I've funneled everything I've mined into JC instead of selling it, and I'm still at 734 skill because the progress is so slow. There are stories online of people stuck at 790 skill who have spend hundreds of thousands of gold making Green Skill recipes that cost several thousand gold each just to try to get to 800 skill where the best gems are locked at.

The only profession that seems like it makes sense in Legion is Herb/Alch. Everyone still wants or needs flasks and potions for raiding and mythic+, with the cost of them being ~2k/flask and ~1/k potion.

I'm considering power leveling an alt with herb/alch soon, not because I've run out of things to do on my shaman, but because I can't afford to spend 12k gold for a single raid night.

For the expansion that was supposed to have the most effort put into professions ever, they did a pretty shit job.
Setanta
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Reply #187 on: September 27, 2016, 04:02:21 PM

I think professions peaked on WoD. They got it right as they were useful when you hit 100 and they could continue to be useful throughout the duration of the expansion. You also got to level them as you played as the levelling scale was spot on and allowed completion so that you could sit in your garrison get back to playing. If anything, it's the one thing that didn't need changing. As a completionist, I just don't care about professions.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
Khaldun
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Reply #188 on: September 27, 2016, 04:05:20 PM

The professions feel to me as if they're edging towards eliminating them altogether.
Merusk
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Reply #189 on: September 27, 2016, 05:24:26 PM

The professions feel to me as if they're edging towards eliminating them altogether.


Yes. They removed all usefulness from anything not Alchemy or the few old Engineering ports. Everything else is more worthless than it was previously because you can't build it unti much, much later or you'll always have access to better via quests.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
luckton
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Reply #190 on: September 27, 2016, 05:48:48 PM

In hindsight, I probably should have done Enchant/Tailor on my DH. At least I can make money and keep myself reasonably buffed. Decisions...

Oh, Mythic and LFR Raiding went live today. The LFR chaps are already complaining that they can't do the "raiding" skin unlock for their artifacts in LFR. I wonder why  Ohhhhh, I see.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Father mike
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Reply #191 on: September 27, 2016, 11:10:08 PM

They've never REALLY liked crafting, except when it was just another cockblock in vanilla (remember grinding factions to be able to craft resistance gear?)  IMO, crafting is on the wrong side of the raider/casual dichotomy.  If filthy casuals can craft epics, then epeens might shrink, or something.
"Now that you can get your purps thru pug raids/LFR, why would anyone want to craft? Oh, except to make buffs for raiding!"

I swear, they need to burn all the artwork in the WoW dev workspace and replace it with WildStar promo materials as a constant reminder to these guys.

I would like to thank Vladimir Putin for ensuring that every member of the NPR news staff has had to say "Pussy Riot" on the air multiple times.
Rokal
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Reply #192 on: September 28, 2016, 01:38:30 AM

WoD professions felt pretty sad since Garrisons meant most of them weren't really relevant on your character. I think Cata or MoP were the peak of profession design, with everything being pretty useful and reforging giving flexibility to gear. But it still felt like boring expensive checkboxes you needed to fill before doing the content you wanted to do.

The Legion design is a total mess, but at this point I'd be fine with Primary Professions going away or being relegated to cosmetic/convenience items that don't matter in the grand scheme of things.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 01:40:45 AM by Rokal »
Zetor
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Reply #193 on: September 28, 2016, 04:27:01 AM

I have engineering on both of my Legion characters, and it's pretty useful. Not because of anything they added in Legion (Reaves would be OK if it didn't take a consumable to summon, that part is just a hassle), but by having all the old stuff. Jeeves / infinite Goblin Gliders / loot-a-rang (this is invaluable on a pvp server where my faction is outnumbered more than 2:1) / Watergliding Jets (on-demand water walking and turbo swimming) / etc etc.

Actual crafting seems 99% useless (it was also pretty bad in WOD, but I could use it to boost my hunter's ilevel to qualify for heroics as soon as she hit 100) simply because WQs exist. I need to grind a blacksmith to 110 and go through a long-ass questline (costing a lot of materials) to craft demonsteel so I can use that and some WQ-gated materials to create... an i805 artifact relic that I'd literally replace the moment I hit 110? Or spend 100k gold on obliterum to increase its ilevel to something slightly worse I'd get in WQs or heroics / LFR? Yeahhhh...
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 04:31:12 AM by Zetor »

luckton
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Reply #194 on: September 28, 2016, 05:06:58 AM

Tried my hand at Normal Emerald Nightmare. Managed to down the first few bosses, but the last three are just a pain in the ass mechanic-wise for me to care about doing/wasting time on between work and family stuffs. Will probably just wait for LFR to complete the quests I have and concentrate more on Mythic+.

Follow-up: After news about the artifact skin not being unlockable on LFR, and that it will be another 30 days before Xavius can be tackled on LFR for finishing the Nightfallen quest campaign, I bit the bullet and PUGd Il'gynoth, Cenarius, and Xav on Normal. Got three hours of sleep before work today, but the deed is done. Wasn't "as bad" as I expected it to be. Ate a number of deaths as a result of people learning the fight and being semi-undergeared, but we did it.

Since the artifact skin can't be done on LFR, and I find myself enjoying Mythic+ a heck of lot more than raiding, I guess I'm done with LFR. It's still a nice tier to have for casual types to experience the story/lore/content, but dropping stuff that's at least 15 ilvls below what I can get from Mythics? Yeah, we're done here.

Less than 1k rep away from Nightfallen Exalted  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Khaldun
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Reply #195 on: September 28, 2016, 02:00:49 PM

If they weren't so grindy, I would otherwise say that pets and archaeology are good models for professions going forward--that you get two picks out of X number of skills that let you collect fun/curious/odd objects directly from the environment, none of them directly enhancing to your character's actual power in dungeons and raids. So if you're a tailor, you find some fun outfits every once in a while. If you're a blacksmith, you find some cool weapon appearances/molds that no one else has. Etc.   As soon as crafting is about power enhancement, it's instantly roped into min-max catassing and has to be constantly recalibrated when thinking about balance.
Paelos
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Reply #196 on: September 29, 2016, 08:22:48 AM

I basically gave up and I've left both my professions along this xpac after going through the smithing one. I've already got better gear than anything they've possibly offered. The only thing I enjoy right now is fishing, which they've finally done something cool with.

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Merusk
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Reply #197 on: September 29, 2016, 02:23:19 PM

What did they do with fishing. I haven't noticed any difference.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
luckton
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Reply #198 on: September 29, 2016, 02:25:51 PM

What did they do with fishing. I haven't noticed any difference.

Angler artifact.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Rokal
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Reply #199 on: September 29, 2016, 02:35:30 PM

A couple other nice quality of life changes too:

-you can catch any fish at any skill level
-when you catch a rare fish you can throw it back for 5 skill points
-you can buy inexpensive Oversized Bobbers from fishing vendors that make your lure way bigger and easier to click or hit pools with
-there are a bunch of easy ways to increase your chance to find rare fish, either to power level fishing or to work on getting the Underlight Angler artifact
Zetor
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Reply #200 on: September 30, 2016, 01:55:20 AM

Yea, the fishing WQs getting you a 20-stack of a specific fish type in 2-3 minutes are pretty good too. My main problem with fishing is that it's just a pure timewasting activity / QTE at its core, and that's not changing no matter how many shinies they implement around it...

Xanthippe
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Reply #201 on: October 02, 2016, 09:11:28 AM

Unless you're a tank, doing the WQs in that elite zone is harsh regardless of your disguise. But then the WQs are designated rare/blue, so they design them with the intent that'd you'd be doing them in a small group or at least a duo.

Disc priest can also solo those, carefully - past 825 ilvl or so.
Xanthippe
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Reply #202 on: October 02, 2016, 09:18:20 AM

I have engineering on both of my Legion characters, and it's pretty useful. Not because of anything they added in Legion (Reaves would be OK if it didn't take a consumable to summon, that part is just a hassle), but by having all the old stuff. Jeeves / infinite Goblin Gliders / loot-a-rang (this is invaluable on a pvp server where my faction is outnumbered more than 2:1) / Watergliding Jets (on-demand water walking and turbo swimming) / etc etc.

Loot-a-rangs don't work outside of WoD zones - at least they don't for my non-eng characters. Nor do the mailboxes.

Why they made this change, I have no idea. Loot-a-rang is such a terrific idea, but useless if I can't use it in any other zones but WoD.

Professions are just awful, except for cooking and alc/herbs.
Zetor
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Reply #203 on: October 02, 2016, 07:45:55 PM

The engineering-only lootarang works fine, it's the other lootarang that got the stupid WOD restriction... I don't like this decision either, since penalizing nonengies is not going to make the profession any more fun.

Ginaz
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Reply #204 on: October 02, 2016, 09:16:59 PM

I have about 2 weeks left on my sub and while I've had a lot of fun and it probably is the best expac since LK, I don't think I'll be re-subbing.  I've gotten to the point where I can't advance my 110's any further without raiding or joining a guild to do mythic+ and the AW grind has really started to set in.  I think I'm just too old now to do this anymore. Get off my lawn!
Xanthippe
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Reply #205 on: October 03, 2016, 10:35:33 AM

I have about 2 weeks left on my sub and while I've had a lot of fun and it probably is the best expac since LK, I don't think I'll be re-subbing.  I've gotten to the point where I can't advance my 110's any further without raiding or joining a guild to do mythic+ and the AW grind has really started to set in.  I think I'm just too old now to do this anymore. Get off my lawn!

Have you tried pugging Mythics? It's really not that bad.
Setanta
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Reply #206 on: October 03, 2016, 05:10:48 PM

I'm with Ginaz on this. Where in WoD I raised all of my alts to 100 and played around on my warrior main, I'm pretty much done with it with my main at 110 and a couple at 101. Great expansion pack but the AW is too grindy (especially as I needed prot/fury) and Blizzard still haven't quite learned to stop catering to raiding guilds. Followers are netting me very little, professions are dead and grindy and I've done all the quest chains and sidequests (this was fantastic).

Wildstar and GW2 also dropped the ball on this and I'm amazed that Blizzard still haven't learned from it. Eve is the only MMO that benefits from advertising when a big corp does something - the bbread and butter subs come from everyone.

Loved the gaming experience of this expansion.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
Hawkbit
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Reply #207 on: October 03, 2016, 05:50:55 PM

I'm still playing and having fun, which lasted a bit longer than the last three expansions. I would like to level one of my other toons, but can't really justify taking the time away from my main to attempt to stay competitive.

A couple things would help: artifact power should apply to all weapons on a character so I don't have to choose between specs. Artifact knowledge should be account wide to make me want to play alts.

Also, professions really do need some love, those quests are long and expensive. Fishing is fun though, and might keep me hanging on for a month or two.
Merusk
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Reply #208 on: October 03, 2016, 07:54:49 PM

It's like Cata all over again. Great leveling experience, shitty endgame.  I've no stamina to run it on an alt at all, which I realized once I hit 106 on my hunter. I just don't want to run it again.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Setanta
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Reply #209 on: October 03, 2016, 10:23:29 PM

A couple things would help: artifact power should apply to all weapons on a character so I don't have to choose between specs. Artifact knowledge should be account wide to make me want to play alts.

I really thought the latter was going to be implemented. The former would be nice too. AK should have been better thought out.

The Cata analogy isn't too far off for me. WoD I enjoyed until I hit 100. WotLK is still the standout expansion - but I think that was a case of it being better than Vanilla/TBC.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
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