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Author Topic: Legion Pre-Expansion Patch Hits - everything changes  (Read 99243 times)
amiable
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Reply #140 on: September 12, 2016, 06:51:25 AM

Haven't played since Cata, re-upped just before release and leveled a MW monk.  Was home all weekend so I got to power her up and I am sitting at ilvl 840 now.

My impressions:

I really love monk healing (I've played druid, priests and pallies in a former life).  The mobility is absolutely great.  Especially since every fight now is "don;"t stand in the way of this bad stuff/QUICK MOVE OVER HERE OR WE ALL DIE!."

I was an avid casual PvPer/world pvper/battlegrounder.  Even on my worst days in prior expansions I was a good dueler 1v1er.  No more.  Either I have gotten old and slow (likely) or the days of healers being able to take on any DPS spec are totally over.  Also, melees are insane right now, they have tons of interrupts and an infinite number of "jump right to you" abilities.  These seems broken.

PvE is really fun, I like the world quest/crafting system.  The dungeons are interesting (although the Warden one is a giant pain in the ass to heal SO MANY MECHANICS....).

Being a healer is awesome for the insta-dungeon pops and it is super easy to get into groups under LFG.

Running pandaran dailies so I can get that water-strider and the cloud serpent mounts.

I know no one currently playing other than myself, my wife who re-upped and is just playing casually and another friend who is super casual.  Is it possible to PUG raid with any success?
lesion
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Reply #141 on: September 12, 2016, 07:45:32 AM

It might be a bit rocky at the start but the raid equivalent of LFG works. There are also custom groups in the LFG menu which probably (maybe, ish) have better quality control.

steam|a grue \[T]/
Khaldun
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Reply #142 on: September 12, 2016, 07:57:34 AM

Eh, ok, I finally got around to doing a bit this weekend (and of course got ganked by asshole level 110s who are sitting around at the first landing in Dalaran.

The rogue HQ is sort of amusing. At this point I can't help but shout back at the NPCs about how stupid they all are. What, there's been a secret society of rogues all this time but I don't even know about it, despite the fact that I've beaten gods, am friends with Khadgar and Thrall, had a huge fucking garrison of my own, have stolen tons of stuff, you name it. They should be joining me, for fuck's sake. Or be hoping I don't kill them for leaving me out. And yes, of course, the super-rogues all get poison in their wine within twenty minutes of me meeting them. And then I fly off to the new continent but all the big NPCs are pretending it was there all the time and there's tons of ancient shit and so on. Goddamn ridiculous game.

But ok. The artifact thing is a cool idea. I decided to switch from being Assassination to Outlaw and Outlaw seems really fun, even if I'm struggling to understand the rotation and the use of the occasional abilities.
Polysorbate80
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Reply #143 on: September 12, 2016, 08:13:45 AM

The class hall bugs me sometimes the same way the garrisons did: even though I'm "in command", I really just get to occasionally pick one of two options while everyone else waits to give me my next order/quest.  I can't yet recruit some of the paladins in the hall who are clearly more important than I am, yet I'm already supposed to be their leader, because plot or something.

But then, Warcraft won't ever be that sandbox-y, and I remember I'm only playing until the grind gets too repetitive anyway.

Speaking of pallys, I levelled Prot to 110, then switched to Ret.  Took about 10 kills to switch back.  Too squishy, and kill speed went down...?  I'd DPS in prot if they just gave me a way to dial down my threat.

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Setanta
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Reply #144 on: September 12, 2016, 03:38:51 PM

I'd DPS in prot if they just gave me a way to dial down my threat.

If only there was a buff that you could switch off to remove threat. GG Blizz

I'm going to level my prot pally next as my warrior is almost 110. Tried leveling as prot but fury is just fantastic. Usually I die if I try to take on 6 - 7 mobs but less than that is fine. First I want to finish the warrior line as I have only completed 3 continents - but I've cleared them. Decent xpac so far I must admit.

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Merusk
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Reply #145 on: September 12, 2016, 03:59:08 PM

Fury was just so goddamn boring when I did the Legion invasion. It was just watching 1-2 cooldowns and punching them as they lit-up. Was I doing it wrong?

I wish Assassin rogues killed faster. I love the bleed/ stealth gameplay but it seems like I've got to to Outlaw/ Subtlety if I don't want to be squishy as fuck because things take too long to die.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
koro
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Reply #146 on: September 12, 2016, 07:20:47 PM

Merusk
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Reply #147 on: September 12, 2016, 07:30:17 PM

So what intern did he harass to this point, I wonder.

 awesome, for real

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Fabricated
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Reply #148 on: September 12, 2016, 07:49:44 PM

Oh, oh thank god.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Paelos
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Reply #149 on: September 12, 2016, 10:29:43 PM

Yeah he's retiring at 42. My ass. He got canned.

And thank God. He's been on my shitlist forever. This expansion doesn't suck, and Metzen finally gets the boot. It's a great year in WoW!

I hope he decides to never touch another game in his life. But he'll come out "retirement" into some other shitty thing in less than 3 years tops.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Father mike
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Reply #150 on: September 12, 2016, 11:28:59 PM

I hope he decides to never touch another game in his life. But he'll come out "retirement" into some other shitty thing in less than 3 years tops.

Maybe Star Citizen is hiring!  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

I would like to thank Vladimir Putin for ensuring that every member of the NPR news staff has had to say "Pussy Riot" on the air multiple times.
Zetor
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Reply #151 on: September 12, 2016, 11:51:52 PM

Haha holy shit. Now the shaman order hall story makes sense!

So yeah, Green Jesus went out with a whimper instead of a bang. Can't say I'm too sad about it.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 11:56:20 PM by Zetor »

Hutch
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Reply #152 on: September 13, 2016, 01:10:36 AM

I hope he decides to never touch another game in his life. But he'll come out "retirement" into some other shitty thing in less than 3 years tops.

Maybe Star Citizen is hiring!  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Maybe Pardo is hiring  why so serious?

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Setanta
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Reply #153 on: September 13, 2016, 06:36:45 AM

Fury was just so goddamn boring when I did the Legion invasion. It was just watching 1-2 cooldowns and punching them as they lit-up. Was I doing it wrong?

I'm finding I can chew through everything as fury - bloodthirst means little to no downtime and the artifact skill wrecks the rares along with shout. other than that it's wrecking blow, furious slash (filler), rampage (on proc). Multiple packs it's WW then use the proc to hit multiple targets with bloodthirst or rampage. Furious charge and double time talents to heal up more. With charge and leap you just keep moving and smashing things.

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Xanthippe
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Reply #154 on: September 13, 2016, 07:47:56 AM


I was an avid casual PvPer/world pvper/battlegrounder.  Even on my worst days in prior expansions I was a good dueler 1v1er.  No more.  Either I have gotten old and slow (likely) or the days of healers being able to take on any DPS spec are totally over.  Also, melees are insane right now, they have tons of interrupts and an infinite number of "jump right to you" abilities.  These seems broken.


Melee is over-strong by design. I don't understand why, but this is planned. Are they going to boost ranged/healing later? Who knows. If you want to pvp and win now though, roll melee.
Merusk
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Reply #155 on: September 13, 2016, 10:43:17 AM

I believe the logic is, "Ranged has less shit to deal with in Raids, so to make Melee and Ranged even in DPS we're going to boost melee since they have to run out all the time."

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ezrast
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Reply #156 on: September 13, 2016, 12:15:59 PM

My experience battleground healing mostly consists of casting 1-2 spells and then getting stunned for 6 seconds and 100-0'd by a Paladin. Casters are in a terrible spot.
amiable
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Reply #157 on: September 13, 2016, 12:16:35 PM

I believe the logic is, "Ranged has less shit to deal with in Raids, so to make Melee and Ranged even in DPS we're going to boost melee since they have to run out all the time."

That's fine.  But that doesn't really work in pvp though.  Especially with the amount of movement/cc abilities they give them.
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Reply #158 on: September 13, 2016, 12:19:09 PM

Welcome to the experience PVE players were bitching about for the last 12 years?

Again it's their failings in trying a "one size fits all" solution. The abilities need separate PVE/ PVP numbers the same way they did with stun and CC duration.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Zetor
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Reply #159 on: September 14, 2016, 04:51:34 AM

I'll say that DPSing with my arms warrior (both while leveling and instances) is way, way easier than DPSing as an ele shaman -- much more damage that is unaffected by the constant movement requirements in fights while my shaman keeps having to cancel casts, lots of mobility and gap closers compared to the single wind jump ability on the shaman (lol ghost wolf), etc etc. Of course there is the occasional 'fuck you melee' mechanic (I hear something about a trash mob in some mythic dungeon having a 0.5sec cast 360' cleave that basically two-shots everyone in range), but I've seen just as many 'fuck you caster' mechanics as well. It's also easier to avoid those massive breath weapons / cones when I'm in the enemy's face.

The only thing my shaman has that my warrior doesn't is a (hardcast) self heal... and in pve I can easily regen to full with Second Wind, or just keep killing shit for Victory Rush to refill my HP, resulting in zero downtime.

e: while we're on the subject of world pvp, it's pretty much clownshoes, but then, it kinda always has been. My server is 64% horde to 36% alliance (pretty much 2:1), and some class hall companions are utterly ridiculous. I think my favorite at the moment is Taran Zhu with his random AOE 10 second untrinketable stun that also increases damage taken... was 100-0'd with that yesterday by a monk without being able to do anything. Prot pallies have a 15-sec cone stun on one of their companions too, plus it's an active ability instead of random, which is probably even worse!

Also, this is probably a no-brainer, but the passive stat/hp increases you get each level are absolutely massive. Today a 101 DH and 100 warrior tried to double-team my 103 warrior, and I killed them both without taking too much damage... then killed them again since they graveyard-zerged me. And then a third time when they graveyard-zerged me AGAIN because I was at 20% HP... well, at least now they know how Victory Rush works. This was without me having any food or bandages to regenerate outside combat. On the flip side, when a 107 mage decided to pick on my then-104 shaman, I died in 4 casts and was CC'd during most of it... I had maybe 1 GCD that I used on the "jump away" ability, it didn't help much.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 05:02:06 AM by Zetor »

Azuredream
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Reply #160 on: September 14, 2016, 05:05:27 AM

Arms Warriors are one of the best specs for DPS at the moment. They hotfixed some of the combat ally abilities in world PvP on Tuesday, I assume the 10-15 sec stuns were changed.

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Zetor
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Reply #161 on: September 14, 2016, 05:52:19 AM

Arms Warriors are one of the best specs for DPS at the moment. They hotfixed some of the combat ally abilities in world PvP on Tuesday, I assume the 10-15 sec stuns were changed.
Well, the Taran Zhu 12 sec stun definitely wasn't (I was hit with it twice: once by accident when a horde monk was killing a world quest miniboss, and once during the gank). Maybe it's because it's not directly controllable, but rather (semi)randomly triggered?

Khaldun
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Reply #162 on: September 14, 2016, 08:46:20 PM

So am I right that the AH is basically dead? I can't see much of anything that I might need that another player would have to sell. It looks like glyphs, at least rogue glyphs, don't matter any more. I can't even see how to apply them, really, and there's almost none in the AH anyway. You're not going to be looking to see if the occasional great world drop is there for weapons or armor--you have the artifacts and the armor comes at a frantic pace from questing and I would assume from instances. I pick up everything I need for my own crafting. I'm not clear if you even can enchant your artifacts or if you would want to, and I wouldn't enchant armor until I was pretty close to a final set. Pets are mostly monetized.

I think this is sort of one of the vague things that depresses me about the game: the variance between players is very nearly gone--I kind of liked seeing catasses and RNG-lucky and weird-itemization and theorycrafting people looking different, doing different stuff, arbitraging as much as they could on the AH and elsewhere.
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Reply #163 on: September 14, 2016, 09:00:22 PM

Glyphs were killed, they only do purely cosmetic things now. It's the designers simplifying so they have to worry about less stuff. Just like everyone now has only 2-3 stats to juggle.

AH is good only for mats, bags, and quest items you need. You can't even sell twink armor anymore because Heirlooms replaced that years ago.  You can enchant artifacts, as a DK I do it myself, though, as it's always been better than other enchants.  Gems? If you care don't buy them on the AH buy them from a guild jewelcrafter instead of paying the insane AH price.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
luckton
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Reply #164 on: September 15, 2016, 08:34:21 PM

Got into the Arcway and Court of Stars yesterday and today. The Arcway reminds of Heroic Shadow Labs, which to me is good. Haven't had good dungeon romps like this in a long time. Court of Stars is nice for all the extra fluff they packed in; every class and tradeskill profession has something in it that lets you tip the scales and buff you up or cause distractions for boss guards.

Cleared up just about all of the 5 and 10-withered chests in the training scenario. Should be able to walk in next time it spawns and clean house for a full clear and max score.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Zetor
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Reply #165 on: September 16, 2016, 03:55:20 AM

Heroic Shadow Labs
THERE IS NO "S" IN LABORATORY (Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?)

Regarding the training scenario, what is a quick way of getting 2000 ancient mana (aside from doing all suramar WQs with the ley rift buff active)? I've been hitting up the city for those juicy 50-130 mana items (Lunastre Estate used to be the best since it's only used for a short part of the plot), but it seems others on my server have caught onto that too, so most of the time I just see blips on the radar that disappear before I can get to them. The training scenario looks like a very different experience depending on your class/spec -- tanks seem to be the absolute best at it, and squishier casters tend to struggle, especially at Dro. I expect my warrior will be able to walk all over it in prot spec (basically prevent all of the withered from taking any damage), which is an annoying contrast to trying it as a healer, since each withered mob remembers its own HP and it rapidly decays to that point if they're ever healed, so may as well not bother with healing at all. Elemental shaman is very bad for this too (again, I did better as enhance with 0 AP and missing relics) -- can survive Dro by rotating cooldowns, it just takes forever and probably costs me half of my withered army in the process. e: I should probably just spend my withered on all the chests I can see before Dro, and then just suicide on him... with more damage / better hp on them, it should be eventually much easier to burn him down. Also, maybe the recent hotfix about withered using rock throw at point blank range will help too.

I should probably look into starting Mythics (just unlocked arcway/court of stars), but my ilevel is still way too low. Speaking of dungeon difficulties: it was amusing that a normal mode vault fight (Cordana) had me push 262k HPS, while tougher heroic fights with more mechanics I can get by with 120k or so. But then, in that Cordana fight, basically the only thing the group did was "focus fire Cordana"  why so serious? It seems that just as in WOD, normal dungeons are harder than heroics!
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 04:02:28 AM by Zetor »

SurfD
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Reply #166 on: September 16, 2016, 07:26:58 AM

Got into the Arcway and Court of Stars yesterday and today. The Arcway reminds of Heroic Shadow Labs, which to me is good. Haven't had good dungeon romps like this in a long time. Court of Stars is nice for all the extra fluff they packed in; every class and tradeskill profession has something in it that lets you tip the scales and buff you up or cause distractions for boss guards.

Cleared up just about all of the 5 and 10-withered chests in the training scenario. Should be able to walk in next time it spawns and clean house for a full clear and max score.
Is there some kind of trick you people have for getting to Revered with the Nightfallen so quickly?   I swear, im not that far behind the first through the gate crowd, but i am still only half way through Revered and am completely out of everything but world quests that give nightfallen rep.

Fastest way I have found  for ancient manna is still to romp around the city.  The south western area (near the Waning Crescent portal), the Lunastre estate and most of the upper area around there, as well as the Vinyard, all spawn the good items that give anywhere from 40 to 130 ancient manna.   The merchant bazzare near the Waning Crescent can often be a goldmine, but dodging the revealers can be a pain in the ass.  Pro tip: Always keep the location of the nearest Inconspicuous Basket in the back of your head, as if you get jumped / exposed, you can make a beeline to it and hop in to completely drop all aggro (you can even re-apply your disguise while inside the basket before popping back out).
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 07:34:43 AM by SurfD »

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Merusk
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Reply #167 on: September 16, 2016, 08:12:48 AM

I refill my ancient mana by just using the Ley Rift buff and killing things. It ticks up enough as I'm slaughtering folks that I don't have to bother with it much. Plus you get mana as drops from withered and other creatures, so that helps too. Of course I'm a DK, so I just love killing shit. It doesn't get tedious the way it does on my rogue or even the hunter.

Order resources are my current bottleneck. I'm only getting 2-3 World Quests per day that grant resources and I've killed almost all the rares. I'm only at 1400 resources/ 10k needed for the next Stronghold update because I upgraded my class armors.


Speaking of rogues, don't fucking go assassination. It was great at 100 pre-legion still, but as soon as I hit the isles it turned to garbage. I can't kill shit and 2 mobs is a 50/50 shot at death. Wtf, Blizzard. I popped into Outlaw and using non-artifact weapons I'm killing 3-4x faster. That's fucked. Too bad, I hate the spec and the rotation. It bores me so I guess the rogue is getting shelved.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
luckton
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Reply #168 on: September 16, 2016, 01:05:04 PM

Best tips for Suramar:

- Get all of the leyline feeds unlocked. Go out of your way from the quests and do them. http://www.wowhead.com/achievement=10756/leyline-bling
Doing so increases the amount of ancient mana you collect from sources (i.e. instead of 2-3 mana per shard in the wild, you'll get 10-20)

- Skin/Herb/Mine gives more ancient mana than just straight kills. If you have a gathering profession, do that.

- That said, once you have Leyline Bling achieved, Suramar City proper (i.e. the area where you don your disguise) gives arguably more mana per minute thanks to the various clickable sources as opposed to the shards and chunks in the wild. I can farm up to the 2k cap within about 15-20 minutes just running around the SW corner of Suramar.

- As far as rep goes, progress the story as much as you can, and also explore around the city for non-storyline quests. Doing them allows them to show up as World Quests, which give rep. Do the Withered Army training whenever it pops and try to do your best. Non-humans can get up to 425 rep per run, and if you're getting that you're doing it right. The emissary quest is a no-brainer when it spawns, but when the Kirin Tor emissary spawns, that one gives you a chance to reward you a singular boost to one of the Broken Isles factions. That's been my strategy thus far; stay on top of the world quests and check in daily. You get 150 a day alone just keeping your three NPCs at the rebel base supplied with mana. More details that break down everything I just said can be found here: http://www.wowhead.com/guides/nightfallen-reputation

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Merusk
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Reply #169 on: September 16, 2016, 01:14:35 PM

I should probably worry more about my rep with the Nightfallen. I got to Honored and stopped fucking around with it on a regular basis. (much like I hit 814 iLevel and said "fuck the gear grind.")

What's the big deal with their rep, other than advancing the storyline? I don't feel the rush to get shit done, knowing that I'm only going to LFR this x-pac and Blizzard's 2-3 years away from the next one. Is there anything tangible?

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Rokal
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Reply #170 on: September 16, 2016, 01:22:30 PM

The big one is that 8000/12000 Honored unlocks the final 2 Mythic dungeons. If you don't care about those or the story, there isn't any big reason to care about the rep.
luckton
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Reply #171 on: September 16, 2016, 01:27:21 PM

The Mythic dungeons are the biggest thing. More chances at cash and prizes are a good thing. The encounters themselves also also pretty enjoyable.

You also need Exalted for the final piece of your class gear, if that's important.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Azuredream
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Reply #172 on: September 16, 2016, 01:32:04 PM

If you have the portal for it (unlocks at 8000/12000 honored), the Twilight Vineyards have ancient mana everywhere. There's Leypetal Blossoms, Dust, and Twice-Fortified Arcwine and the kicker is that as soon as you loot one another instantly spawns somewhere else in the area, or so it seems to me. Go back and forth from the portal in the east to the west past the moths up until you hit the detection mobs and you'll fill your 2000 in 10 minutes or less. The tricky bit is that everyone else will be farming this spot too, so if the Scenario just reset that's a terrible time to farm for it since you'll be competing against tons of people also trying to get their 2000. It's best to farm it when the scenario hasn't just reset.

I'm regretting picking the assassination daggers first on my rogue alt. I'm dying to level up a couple times so I can go pick the combat (outlaw, whatever) weapons and start actually killing things in a decent amount of time.

The Lord of the Land approaches..
Merusk
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Reply #173 on: September 16, 2016, 03:03:21 PM

YEah, that's what I was saying earlier. Assasination is totally fucked. Just dump the artifacts, buy the weapons off the class hall vendor and go Combat or Subtlety. Sorry "outlaw".  You'll save yourself so many headaches and corpse runs.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Reply #174 on: September 16, 2016, 04:33:32 PM

Shame, I was planning to level Assassination when I got bored with my Shaman. Guess I'll put that on the back burner.

Any reason I shouldn't blow my level 100 boost on a Blood DK? I can't stand the frantic button-mashy playstyle of Bear Druid and want to try a tank with more careful resource management, a la rogues and healers.
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