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Author Topic: Legion Pre-Expansion Patch Hits - everything changes  (Read 102180 times)
Rokal
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Reply #70 on: August 18, 2016, 11:15:10 AM

Chances I'm going to buy the xpac next week are now high. The last time I tanked was in the beginning of Panda land so I expect this to be a hilarious amount of failure.

They've moved tanking back to a mostly passive model, so you might be surprised.

My experience so far is that is every class - it's dumbed down something rotten.

Not a bad thing, but I could playing a DH or a DK or a Warrior or a rogue and not nitice the difference.

Still fun, but I honestly miss all the signature abilities that made classes different, but I also saw the writing on the wall when they made tanking skills similar.

It's a very mixed bag. Basic rotations have gotten much simpler and they've trimmed a lot of the sometimes-used abilities from classes, but talent selection feels like it has gotten much more complex since there are only a few obvious stinkers left. A lot of the stuff you're picking either adds to or modifies your ability rotation instead of just adding a long dps/healing/tanking cooldown. Add that on top of the artifact weapons granting each spec a new important ability and modifying the rest, and it feels like we're only seeing part of the picture.

When I have revisited other classes or specs on all my alts over the last few weeks, it has felt very easy to grasp the basics because all the classes have different combinations of the same resource models at this point, and take similar cues for ability rotation. The longer I spend on them the more different they feel though. I think this expansion will be the first to really make each class and spec feel like it has it's own identity, down to even a (potentially superficial) story-level with artifact weapons & class quests and order halls. I can't speak to the healing and tanking specs yet, since those are hard to feel out without doing dungeons or raids, but I'm enjoying the direction they took the dps specs.

Rokal
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Reply #71 on: August 18, 2016, 05:05:05 PM

I'll give you an example of what I mean that we are only seeing part of the picture for specs in Legion. I'm having trouble deciding whether to play a Balance Druid or Elemental Shaman for Legion even after playing around with both daily for ~2 weeks.

My impression of Balance in Legion is that, while the awkward eclipse bar is finally gone, the spec currently feels:

-weak relative to other specs at a similar gear level
-slow to build resources (Astral Power) for bigger or more interesting spells, even with the talents that increase resource gen
-that it lacks burst damage

Balance druids that were raiding pre-7.0 reported that after the Legion patch they went from competing at the top of the DPS charts to the very bottom.

The artifact weapon, allegedly, fixes all these problems. The ability it grants is a New Moon, a nuke with 3 charges and a 15 second recharge that transitions from New>Half>Full each time you cast it, getting increasingly powerful until the cycle resets.

New Moon: 1 sec cast, 450% spell damage, generates 10 astral power
Half Moon: 2 sec cast, 900% spell damage, generates 20 astral power
Full moon: 3 sec cast, 1800% spell damage AoE, generates 40 astral power

Compare that to the current nukes in live:

Solar Wrath: 1.5 sec cast, 190% spell damage, 6 astral power.
Lunar Strike: 2.5 sec cast, 270% spell damage and a fraction of that as AoE, generates 10 astral power

You'd have to cast 4 Solar Wraths just to get comparable damage & resource generation of Half Moon, let alone the crazy numbers and AoE damage of Full Moon. As soon as you get the artifact weapon the class will feel dramatically different, which makes trying to evaluate everything in 7.0 difficult.

Elemental isn't in the same boat, but it currently feels like WoD in that most of your damage is coming from Lava Burst crits. The artifact will shift a lot of your biggest damage to lightning spells instead, so it will also be a change as soon as you get it.
Merusk
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Reply #72 on: August 18, 2016, 07:37:02 PM

Yeah, the bit about artifacts balancing the chars out is what I said earlier. You notice this on Beastmaster hunters as well. You're balanced around always having 2 pets out, so having only one will fill really bad.  If you weren't doing the Legion beta you're not going to have the right feel for your class. You're currently missing key abilities and upgrades that come through the Artifact.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Paelos
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Reply #73 on: August 19, 2016, 09:04:05 AM

I'm likely installing and loading up for play on Sunday. We'll see how this invasion business goes.

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luckton
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Reply #74 on: August 19, 2016, 11:19:04 AM

Follow-up from earlier regarding the gloves you get from Khadgar after finishing his pre-launch questline: DO NOT VENDOR/DE/DESTROY THEM!

Apparently, the proc they do does about 1.5M damage. So basically it turns HFC content into a huge /faceroll.  ACK!

So yeah, I got to use Blizzard's item restoration service today. Works like a charm!  awesome, for real

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Xanthippe
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Reply #75 on: August 19, 2016, 12:27:43 PM

EDIT: I looked it up, I have two level 90 toons, one warrior tank with 495 gear, and one melee shaman at 90 with 525 gear.

Since I get a lvl 100 boost is it worth using on one of them? How long does it take to get those last 10 levels roughly since we have a couple of weeks left.

I wouldn't use a 100 boost on a level 90. You can go through the garrison chain to get a garrison, then use 100 garrison resources to buy an xp elixir off your garrison vendor. Combined with rested and with invasion xp, you'll be 100 by the time Legion goes live, easily.

If you want to boost a different class, that would make sense.

EDIT ADDED: Also, the DH intro is really well done, I think, so you might want to make one. I imagine that isn't going anywhere, though, after Legion launches. I do not have the feel down for my DH at all, admittedly. (I'd rather play windwalker monk or feral druid).

You might want to look into both druid and monk - those are likely my favorite classes right now (although I'll stick with my hunter and priest most likely, out of some strange feelings of affection for characters I've been playing forever).
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 12:31:16 PM by Xanthippe »
Merusk
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Reply #76 on: August 19, 2016, 02:14:54 PM

What Xanthippe said. I've played about 4-5 hours across multiple toons since reupping last week. (Travel has limited my time) My level 91 rogue hit level 95.5 last night. I was doing WOD content before saying "fuck it" and chasing invasions. It's grindy but it's SO MUCH faster. I did two and a half levels last night vs. the running around doing quests thing.

I also have heirlooms, so YMMV.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Rokal
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Reply #77 on: August 19, 2016, 03:30:04 PM

They did cut the exp needed to go from 90-100 by about 30%, IIRC, at some point during WoD. With Heirlooms it was easy to go from 90-100 with a little over 2 zones worth of questing, especially if you're picking up treasures and killing Rares. Without Heirlooms it took 3 for me recently.

Invasions give you ~1 level for doing 2-3 of them, so they are potentially a little faster than quest hubs, but YMMV on whether you'd rather quest or grind invasions.
Bzalthek
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Reply #78 on: August 19, 2016, 03:56:19 PM

Given the current situation, which could change any time, the least stressful situation is to fly to the invasion, afk for 30 minutes, and fly to the next.  Right now, participating will only add hp to the mob scaling technology, and you won't get any exp from most mobs unless you solo them.  Of course, I find them kinda fun, but you get pretty much the same rewards whether you die repeatedly to attacks that aren't scaled for your level or just afk on yer flying mount at the edge of the zone.

"Pity hurricanes aren't actually caused by gays; I would take a shot in the mouth right now if it meant wiping out these chucklefucks." ~WayAbvPar
Merusk
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Reply #79 on: August 19, 2016, 04:35:33 PM

How depressingly Blizzard.  why so serious? DRILLING AND MANLINESS

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luckton
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Reply #80 on: August 19, 2016, 04:40:41 PM

Given the current situation, which could change any time, the least stressful situation is to fly to the invasion, afk for 30 minutes, and fly to the next.  Right now, participating will only add hp to the mob scaling technology, and you won't get any exp from most mobs unless you solo them.  Of course, I find them kinda fun, but you get pretty much the same rewards whether you die repeatedly to attacks that aren't scaled for your level or just afk on yer flying mount at the edge of the zone.

It already did change. XP for low level people getting help from 100s was got hotfixed overnight. Go kill some demons already.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Bzalthek
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Reply #81 on: August 20, 2016, 12:30:24 AM

Yep, I got home just now and demons are kicking out nice exp.  It's nice seeing people participate again.  Swarms of players tearing into the demons.  I love seeing that.

"Pity hurricanes aren't actually caused by gays; I would take a shot in the mouth right now if it meant wiping out these chucklefucks." ~WayAbvPar
SurfD
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Reply #82 on: August 20, 2016, 04:45:55 PM

Now if only they would fix how hard some  of those endbosses hit, everything would be right in the world.   Not terribly fun as a tank when some of those fuckers 3 shot you through your passive defensives.   Even with a healer or two on me, My DK quite literally cant tank some  of them for more then about 6 seconds without splattering.

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Azuredream
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Reply #83 on: August 20, 2016, 05:13:23 PM

I don't try tanking them anymore on my Prot Pally. Even if someone actually tries to heal me through it I'll die. It's less headache to just stand around and then maybe go in when the boss is <20% than to get crushed into the ground in 2 hits.

The Lord of the Land approaches..
Zetor
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Reply #84 on: August 20, 2016, 11:28:42 PM

One semi-protip I picked up while powerleveling my warlock yesterday: when fighting the pit lord minibosses (the ones that do the 'searing flesh' attack), only engage them after they've already used the attack once. They'll almost always get to cast it twice, and while surviving one is possible with all self-healing / damage mitigation cooldowns you may have, the second one WILL kill you. Same thing applies to fel reaver's earthquake.

Of course you can always just move out of range, but some classes don't have enough mobility skills to do that...

Hawkbit
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Reply #85 on: August 22, 2016, 09:40:08 AM

I went from having one 100 toon I didn't like to having five 100 toons after the past few weeks of legion invasions. Hopefully I can find one of them I enjoy playing?!

The XP is insane from these things - I also have a 43 warrior that I started on Saturday. He hasn't even completed a quest yet, just the invasions. Hoping to have him to 100 by end of event.
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Reply #86 on: August 22, 2016, 11:26:45 AM

Yeah, I leveled-up several of the alts I abandoned because Warlords was only fun the first time through. Thief and Druid have now joined my Hunter, DK, Monk, and Priest. I'm working on the Mage now and considering the Warrior and Shaman.

I just can't find a lot of long-term play in any of them, though. Not sure if it's because I'm still burnt-out on WoW or I just don't like the mechanics of the new classes. They all have their own flavor, but something's missing on each of them so they haven't clicked with me.

It's like none of them feel HEROIC anymore. It's just simple rotations with little actual decision-making. I feel a bot could play all of them and I'd be having the same experience.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Hawkbit
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Reply #87 on: August 27, 2016, 02:52:04 PM

I started a Tauren pally (my first ever Horde toon) on Tuesday and he just hit 100 in 26.5 hours /played. I left him sit for likely a few hours by accident so could have done in less than a day. Pretty cool!
luckton
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Reply #88 on: August 31, 2016, 10:03:19 AM

This pretty much sums up day 1 for me on my thoughts regarding launch:



Granted, I know everyone plays at different times and zones, and apparently there was a DDoS attack late last night, but I've logged about 15ish hours since 0300 EST Tuesday, and have been running without a glitch.

Cleared through Azsuna and finished the main story lines in Stormheim, just need to collect the last hidden treasures and side-quests there. Dinged 106 on my DH, and unlocked one of the key points on my artifact. So far, this expansion's hitting all the proper endorphin buttons.  awesome, for real
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 10:07:14 AM by luckton »

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Setanta
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Reply #89 on: August 31, 2016, 11:26:23 AM

I'm just not feeling the game anymore. My warrior main feels boring as fury and I wish I'd chosen the tanking weapons to level. Enhance shaman feels ok but TBH, I might as well be playing my warrior. Affliction warlock feels ok but I don't have any sense of variety. In fact I'm bored already because of the changes, it's all generic skills. Class halls seem good but for the first time ever I actually can't be bothered levelling. The game feels slick but lacking in soul.

I think they refined the signature skills too much, there just doesn't seem to be enough depth to the classes anymore.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
luckton
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Reply #90 on: August 31, 2016, 11:33:40 AM

If you can hold out to 102, you can head back to your class hall and do the quests to pickup your other spec weapons.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Merusk
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Reply #91 on: August 31, 2016, 11:53:16 AM

If you can hold out to 102, you can head back to your class hall and do the quests to pickup your other spec weapons.

Just make sure you have a different weapon with you when you do this. The DK tanking quest, for example, is not able to be completed by DPS. Since your artifact is spec-related it becomes a broken-weapon when you change specs.

One my guildies is already 110. He's nuts.

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luckton
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Reply #92 on: August 31, 2016, 11:58:43 AM

Not sure if that applies to all classes. I got the warning that doing my DPS artifact was "designed" for my DPS-spec, but I was not forced to change spec. I was able to do the whole Havoc chain with my tanking blades on and running Vengeance the entire time. The only "error" I encountered was at the end when I got the blades; the game tried to auto-equip them, but couldn't due to my tank spec being active. Still finished though.

Edit: Grammar and words are hard while at work after 15 hour gaming session xD
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 12:04:26 PM by luckton »

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Merusk
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Reply #93 on: August 31, 2016, 12:19:50 PM

The warning you're talking about is when you take the quest. If you can power through it as that spec, great.

However, if you change specs the artifact goes "broken." and is unusable. THAT is where you run into problems if you can't complete the 2nd quest in your "Default" spec.

i.e. I can't use Apocalypse (the Unholy weapon) in Blood spec.  Since the quest was designed around  a lot of self-heal/ mitigate I couldn't complete it in Unholy Spec. When I switched to Blood I wasn't able to "Tank" the instance without a separate weapon.

Ditto my wife needing to do DPS with the Holy artifact, she lost all of the stat-stick of the weapon slot because it flagged "broken" when she switched to Shadow.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
luckton
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Reply #94 on: August 31, 2016, 12:35:51 PM

Gotcha. Fortunately your class hall vendor should have a generic weapon(s) available for sale that will suit the artifact quest needs.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Ginaz
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Reply #95 on: August 31, 2016, 03:07:50 PM

If you weren't already decked out in iLvl 745 or whatever mythic gear or didn't take advantage of that sweet, sweet invasion loot, you're in for a rough beginning. You will get some decent starting gear within the first couple of hours but if you have iLvl 650 or less, its going to be a slog.  Even with my mage having slightly over 700 gear, it took a bit to kill mobs.  I wouldn't say they're hard to kill but you're not going to face roll them, either.
Setanta
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Reply #96 on: August 31, 2016, 03:47:22 PM

If you can hold out to 102, you can head back to your class hall and do the quests to pickup your other spec weapons.

Just make sure you have a different weapon with you when you do this. The DK tanking quest, for example, is not able to be completed by DPS. Since your artifact is spec-related it becomes a broken-weapon when you change specs.



Oh crap, I sold them :( Might be able to craft a shield and sword I guess.

On that note, I hate 2H swords for fury as I love my Tauren Chieften axe transmog. I do  wish you could transmog swords and axes together

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Rokal
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Reply #97 on: August 31, 2016, 05:48:44 PM

Some NPC in your class hall should sell weapons for the other specs if you need one to complete the quest. I ended up doing them with heirloom weapons before finding this out, as I too had sold my weapons as soon as I earned my first artifact.
Ginaz
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Reply #98 on: August 31, 2016, 10:48:27 PM

OK, this scene inside the class hall made me want to level my druid next.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIMOx4BD8wg
Hawkbit
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Reply #99 on: August 31, 2016, 11:36:23 PM

I finally got a feel for my ret paladin and I think I'm going to main him for this xpac. I didn't really like how the mage or hunter play anymore (my vanilla toons), and my DK feels fiddly as unholy.

I did the class quests for the weapon on all four characters last night and Blizzard did a really good job with those. Engaging, each one of them. Also, the new zones look downright beautiful. We'll see how it plays as the expansion progresses, but so far they've done good. It's doing great on nostalgia.
Setanta
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Reply #100 on: September 01, 2016, 06:58:00 AM

Rolled back my deleted items on my Warrior. I really want to play around with my feral druid, rogue and prot pally. I've always levelled the latter as prot, it's fun. Enhance shaman is also good and I took the warrior out again and got into a rhythm with it.

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Azuredream
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Reply #101 on: September 01, 2016, 07:12:36 AM

I'm having fun, played a lot and hit 110. I'm not sure if I'll stay subbed for more than a couple months since I didn't in WoD but for what it's worth this expansion feels more fun to me. I like the world quests, they offer a lot of variety. All the class quests and profession quests offer even more variety on top of that.

The Lord of the Land approaches..
Merusk
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Reply #102 on: September 01, 2016, 07:25:54 AM

Unholy isn't too fiddly, I'm playing it as one of my main characters. You juggle the same number of resources as other classes, but the gameplay is more methodical than spammy. That gets frustrating at times because I want to just mash keys.  awesome, for real

Keep your two diseases up, manage runic power and don't let pustules stack to max unless you're then going to blow your Artifact proc (which is awesome).

That's for basic kills. Harder mobs you roll-in making sure your pet is hulked-out on CD and you are throwing Gargoyle/ Dark Arbiter out there. IF you didn't take Dark Arbiter then you should have taken Soul Reaper, so you weave that into the first rotation on CD right before a Scourge Strike.

I didn't like the Beastmaster Hunter at all. Marks is pretty decent fun now that I get the rotation. It's a LOT simpler than it was. Spam Aim, Use Sidewinders to mark targets hit your "shoot all my marked targets" button. Win. It's especially fun on big pulls with lots of targets.

Hunters big problem is each spec only has one viable talent tree spec and little flavor outside of that. Using marks for example:

* You MUST take Sidewinders unless doing massive AOEs at all times when Piercing shot overtakes it. The other talent is nigh useless.
* Barrage is superior to Volley because things don't have to be massed and there's too many multi-target fights for Murder of Crows to be worth it except in specific situations.
* Patient Sniper > all.  
* Lock and Load is fantastic and removes a CD instead of adding another to manage.
* Lone Wolf removes pets (which I consider sacrilege) but outperforms the others in any fight with more than one target.

The other specs are very similar in terms of 'choices' that aren't really choices.

Rolled back my deleted items on my Warrior. I really want to play around with my feral druid, rogue and prot pally. I've always levelled the latter as prot, it's fun. Enhance shaman is also good and I took the warrior out again and got into a rhythm with it.


People don't level pallies as Prot? What's their problem?  DRILLING AND MANLINESS  Prot pally felt really strong again when I did the Legion Invasions to level mine up. I don't think they're back to the "I rule all" levels of Burning Crusade but I definitely can see them being the #1 or #2 choice for tanks because they're fun and not easy to fuck-up on rotation.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Hawkbit
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Reply #103 on: September 01, 2016, 09:24:49 AM

Unholy isn't too fiddly,

It's not terrible, but I wish there was a version of unholy without pet. If unholy had Lone Wolf, I'd probably play it. I always wanted to play frost, but it plays really weak to me.
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Reply #104 on: September 01, 2016, 09:35:19 AM

I agree. My main complaint about Unholy has always been the perma-ghoul. I like perma-pets for Hunters and Warlocks, but it sucks for melee and seems out of place. Especially an undead plate-wearing juggernaut of plague and decay. Much preferred when it was a DPS cool-down back in early Lich King.

Frost IS really weak play-wise. You're waiting on CDs, rune power and procs. It's nowhere near as engaging as Unholy or even Blood tanking. That's before I start into my bitchfit about Dual-Wielding.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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