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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: Index/Oculus/Vive/PSVR 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Index/Oculus/Vive/PSVR  (Read 144319 times)
Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #700 on: April 20, 2021, 06:37:09 PM

Finally got around to re-installing Skyrim, and had to use a couple days fiddling with the mods to get it working how I want.  Was having all kinds of issues with the Script Extender, the perk mods, etc.  Also found a new basic mod list which really made the graphics looks nice, much better than what I had before.  As much as I like Fallout when it is running properly, I gotta say this game is #2 next to Alyx.

what mod list did you use? Last time I tried to start up Skyrim (flat screen) I decided to go whole hog and see what my 2080 could do with it, but only made it halfway through the STEP list before running tiring of the mod game.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #701 on: April 21, 2021, 02:12:45 AM

Finally got around to re-installing Skyrim, and had to use a couple days fiddling with the mods to get it working how I want.  Was having all kinds of issues with the Script Extender, the perk mods, etc.  Also found a new basic mod list which really made the graphics looks nice, much better than what I had before.  As much as I like Fallout when it is running properly, I gotta say this game is #2 next to Alyx.

what mod list did you use? Last time I tried to start up Skyrim (flat screen) I decided to go whole hog and see what my 2080 could do with it, but only made it halfway through the STEP list before running tiring of the mod game.

What you mod for VR and what you mod for Pancake are two different things, so my mod list probably wouldn't help you.  It is mostly just the base game with graphical, lighting, physics and UI mods, stuff like that.  Beyond that it is probably just improved spells/skills and whatever (plus....lightsabers).  The vanilla game is pretty compelling in VR once you get it looking right and get the physics tweaked.  I have on occasion added improved dragons, tougher random mobs, that sort of thing, but didn't find it necessary to the enjoyment.  So the list is probably only 20 or fewer things.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Sky
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Reply #702 on: May 11, 2021, 02:32:36 PM

Looks like HTC is going to be taking a step back from consumer VR as a focus: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/05/htcs-newest-headsets-signal-end-of-vives-5-year-vr-for-the-home-mission/

Bummer. At this point it's just Valve? (Oculus is not an option for me for reasons)

Trippy
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Reply #703 on: May 11, 2021, 02:37:05 PM

And Sony awesome, for real
Velorath
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Reply #704 on: May 11, 2021, 03:09:17 PM

I mean, some of the Sony stuff, if true, sounds kinda interesting.
Falconeer
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Reply #705 on: May 11, 2021, 04:01:52 PM

HP Reverb G2 seems to be great.

Khaldun
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Reply #706 on: May 11, 2021, 09:59:56 PM

I get so frustrated with all of this. The problem is not first and foremost with the tech, though that's a challenge. It's a representational problem. They need a film critic or a literary critic if they really want to move onto a next next generation.

It does not matter how great the tech is about immersing me in a fully surrounding environment and about attaching haptics to me to model my actions in a naturalistic way. Most of the things most of us want to play are not naturalistic. You want a next-gen VR beyond the current standard that lets me take a realistic walk in the woods in a woods I've never been in? We're almost there. You want a game that lets me be a badass warrior in the Elder Scrolls world or a Jedi Knight in the Old Republic? You cannot do it without making a decision that is not about the technology for representing the graphical environment. You have to decide how to amplify my movements and actions in a way that feels both natural to what I did when I moved and yet is vastly beyond what I did and doesn't make me feel sick in the process. If you take the Jedi example, I literally have to feel as if I can jump ten feet when I only jump half a foot, as if I can run faster than Usain Bolt when I'm just running in place, etc. Otherwise I'm just an old guy with a helmet on. But if you are feeding me a 360 environmental simulation in which I jump ten feet and run fifty feet for the least movements in both, motion sickness is inevitable for most people.

Nobody has a solution for it. I think even if you were in a ST: TNG Holodeck, you'd feel it, unless the Holodeck had some way of interacting with the brain itself to reconcile the illusion with the body's cognitive awareness of its movements, etc., or if the Holodeck strictly limited its users to what they were physically capable of doing in the real world (there's some evidence for that in the show--we've never seen anyone pretending to be a superhero, a Jedi Knight, etc., in the Holodeck.)
SurfD
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Reply #707 on: May 11, 2021, 11:07:38 PM

so, what you are saying is that what we really need is something like the "full body interaction rig" from Ready Player 1.  A combination of the omni directional treadmill + a body harness that can mimic low intensity wire work lifts to allow you to simulate the ability to run at high speeds or do exaggerated leaps and the like.  Cause the only other alternative would be some kind of direct neural interface that can actually "fool" your body into believing those things are happening by feeding it false inputs, and I am pretty sure we are much closer to the first option than the second right now.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #708 on: May 12, 2021, 01:34:54 AM

I get so frustrated with all of this. The problem is not first and foremost with the tech, though that's a challenge. It's a representational problem. They need a film critic or a literary critic if they really want to move onto a next next generation.

It does not matter how great the tech is about immersing me in a fully surrounding environment and about attaching haptics to me to model my actions in a naturalistic way. Most of the things most of us want to play are not naturalistic. You want a next-gen VR beyond the current standard that lets me take a realistic walk in the woods in a woods I've never been in? We're almost there. You want a game that lets me be a badass warrior in the Elder Scrolls world or a Jedi Knight in the Old Republic? You cannot do it without making a decision that is not about the technology for representing the graphical environment. You have to decide how to amplify my movements and actions in a way that feels both natural to what I did when I moved and yet is vastly beyond what I did and doesn't make me feel sick in the process. If you take the Jedi example, I literally have to feel as if I can jump ten feet when I only jump half a foot, as if I can run faster than Usain Bolt when I'm just running in place, etc. Otherwise I'm just an old guy with a helmet on. But if you are feeding me a 360 environmental simulation in which I jump ten feet and run fifty feet for the least movements in both, motion sickness is inevitable for most people.

Nobody has a solution for it. I think even if you were in a ST: TNG Holodeck, you'd feel it, unless the Holodeck had some way of interacting with the brain itself to reconcile the illusion with the body's cognitive awareness of its movements, etc., or if the Holodeck strictly limited its users to what they were physically capable of doing in the real world (there's some evidence for that in the show--we've never seen anyone pretending to be a superhero, a Jedi Knight, etc., in the Holodeck.)

There are several things in this post I disagree with, but I think they mostly come down to your thoughts about motion sickness.  In my experience, there are three kinds of people in this regard:

A. Those who immediately and significantly have a negative reaction.  Like, real bad.
B. Those who experience moderate nausea if exposed for an extended period of motion
C. Those who have zero reaction and don't even understand the concept

The massive, unfixable reactions of group A are easily the least common.  I have seen one person react this way in real life, and even then she could mitigate it a bit with motion sickness pills and avoiding certain types of games.  Most "older" people like us seem to fall into category B.  Myself included.  These people will within time essentially completely adapt to it and more or less never experience it again, or at least not severe enough to be an impediment.  Younger people seem to all fit into C.  Their brains pick it up instantly, and they mock the very idea of becoming sick.

There are of course other factors involved, starting with the framerate actually being up to speed, the tracking being perfect and the programming of the game itself.  But the idea that most people have crippling motion sickness from VR is just way off.  It is the exception, not the rule.  That it is people in our relative age group that seem to be most often making this complaint should probably give you a clue as to what is going on.

Also, Elder Scrolls already does exactly those things you seem to imply are not possible, unless I miss your point.  A Jedi game would be 110% possible and amazing if anyone bothered to give it a real effort.  Hell, Skyrim gets you halfway there already.

The one somewhat unsolvable thing at this point is physical jumping translating into VR jumping.  But the problem is not what you might expect it to be, and it is also absolutely no big deal.  Button press jumping works just fine, and I don't think I would want another solution that doesn't involve a whole-body rig.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Sky
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Reply #709 on: May 24, 2021, 03:11:33 PM

Have you checked out No Mans Sky in VR? They added DLSS which could really help resolution-challenged hardware.

Cyrrex
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Reply #710 on: May 25, 2021, 12:52:37 AM

Yeah, it is quite good in VR...although it tends to run fairly poorly in relation to how it looks.  Some DLSS sounds like a potential improvement, I might have to re-install it just to see how it looks.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #711 on: May 25, 2021, 12:23:11 PM


A. Those who immediately and significantly have a negative reaction.  Like, real bad.
B. Those who experience moderate nausea if exposed for an extended period of motion
C. Those who have zero reaction and don't even understand the concept

The massive, unfixable reactions of group A are easily the least common.  I have seen one person react this way in real life, and even then she could mitigate it a bit with motion sickness pills and avoiding certain types of games.  Most "older" people like us seem to fall into category B.  Myself included.  These people will within time essentially completely adapt to it and more or less never experience it again, or at least not severe enough to be an impediment.  Younger people seem to all fit into C.  Their brains pick it up instantly, and they mock the very idea of becoming sick.


If you want to swap confirmation-biased anectodal evidence, my teen grandson and his friend are soundly in category B, not A. They started unable to play more than half an hour without feeling sick, and now a few years later play for hours at a time. Though they are taking turns with a single headset so are still limited in how long they are immersed at a time, I do know the grandson can handle a couple hours at least now before starting to feel ill.  Or maybe it just takes that long for the existing discomfort to break through into his teen awareness.  why so serious?

But I agree that most people probably fit in category B. But some (many? most?) may never be able to handle more than limited periods at a time.  I do know I used to get queasy after a few minutes of some games with lots of movement just on a flat screen, and still do watching someone else play, but I can handle it for hours now as long I'm in control.  Yet movies, even IMax, don't bother me.  Mostly. Sideways spinning, like a spiral staircase, can get me. Some things in RL (like sideways spinning again) will get me that don't get others too though, so who knows.

As I'm getting older and less physically capable, I find I'm less and less interested in the gameplay involving running in place swinging arms wildly though, which seems to be where it's all at/going these days. meh.  A lot of that stuff just plain hurts some days.  Get off my lawn!  I want the immersive visuals without having to get out of my comfy chair or worry about knocking stuff off my desk. So full body haptics and large area position tracking are a waste of tech for me, I want higher resolution, better framerates, and accurate targeting.  I'd probably be happiest with KB&M and an intelligent AR pass-through (to see the keyboard) so the only thing being replaced by the VR is the monitors/speakers.  Doesn't seem to be what excites the cool kids though, so I'm not holding my breath.


Yes, I know I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
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