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Yegolev
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Reply #595 on: December 26, 2019, 12:27:04 PM

MSI laptop and Oculus Rift S are operational. The boy of course selected Minecraft as the first game to try, and after much internetting and Windowsing I finally got it working.

Next request is to have the HDMI output the VR panel to a nearby TV for the enjoyment of the audience, which may or may not be possible. The first hurdle is that the HDMI and miniDV are RIGHT FUCKING NEXT TO EACH OTHER. The person requesting this probably doesn't know that the VR panel shows the stereo images side by side.

This entire experience reminded me of why I don't play games on PC anymore.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Sky
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Reply #596 on: December 27, 2019, 12:13:55 PM

What are his thoughts on VR minecraft?  Though I'm assuming since you Oculus'd that it's just the MS version and not actual minecraft (the java modded version)?

Cyrrex
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Reply #597 on: December 28, 2019, 06:19:11 AM

I would assume Oculus could manage both versions.  In any case, that is a pretty brave place to start.  Your kid can probably handle it, but MC would generally require that you get your VR legs under you lest you get super queasy.  I have reason to believe this is especially true for adults.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #598 on: December 28, 2019, 07:35:25 AM

Also, as a bit of a helpful guideline for you, a couple of things.  First, do not forget that you can and should be looking at the Steam store, not just the Oculus store.  Oculus has some exclusives, but beyond that you are probably better off using Steam for most things (they have more sales, for one thing).

Second, here is a list of stuff I would consider no-brainer purchases or downloads, especially seeing as you have kids:

Rec Room (which is free). I think we have more than 1000 hours in this game alone.
The Lab (also free)
Beat Saber
Gorn (tons of cartoony gore, but most kids these days would handle it)
Budget Cuts (super cheap right now and a good way to ease into VR)
And just to get into a great FPS that is easy on the tummy and your new PC....Doom 3 BFG with the easy to setup VR mod from Github
Maybe also Space Pirate Trainer for a standing still kind of shooter
Oh, and I almost forgot Echo Arena.  It is basically exactly like that null g game from Enderís Game.  Even if you donít want to play it, it is cool as shit.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Yegolev
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Reply #599 on: December 30, 2019, 12:04:59 PM

More info on the VR adventure.

The MSI laptop inconveniently places the miniDV between the HDMI and sole USB3 on that same side, so further video hijinks are on hold just now. The USB3 can luckily reach the other side of the laptop where there are more ports. Finding a mini-dp-to-mini-dp male/female extender cable will take more than a few minutes of searching, it seems.

The boy has played VR before (PSVR) but yes, Minecraft is a bold place to begin for a few reasons. For one, playing Java Minecraft requires the Vivecraft mod and Oculus app running but once that was sorted out it was all fine. Non-players can watch in the SteamVR pane but of course it is a pair of side-by-side images since the game runs in 3D.

Buying Minecraft in the Oculus Store seemed like the easiest thing to do but turns out it actually doesn't work. I mean, the game won't launch. Thanks, Zuckerman.

He had his friend ensure their server would support his client and he has been playing with them successfully. His friend asked what mods to include and my son just said "Nothing nauseating" and specifically forbade grappling hooks. I said he should try jumping off a cliff, but he said he already fell into a hole and described the experience as terrifying. Meaning successful, I suppose.

On the other end of the spectrum, wife played Vacation Simulator, then I got to or had to play that elevator puzzle game and then Accounting+. The Oculus Rift S works great, even if running both SteamVR and Oculus at the same time can get confusing. Not sure how to redraw the safe space, for example, but I do like how they implemented it inside VR.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Cyrrex
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Reply #600 on: December 30, 2019, 01:50:56 PM

I remember my first time jumping off the top of my newly built Minecraft castle, and I swear to you I could feel the landing in my teeth.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Sky
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Reply #601 on: January 23, 2020, 11:49:13 AM

I feel like Yahtzee sums up a lot of my thoughts on current VR in his Boneworks review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHjLVo6LO7s

Cyrrex
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Reply #602 on: January 24, 2020, 12:20:27 AM

Yeah, that's mostly spot on, at least as a general summary.  Only major point of contention being that the dude has an old Rift, which means he is a generation behind on visuals and especially on tracking.  Fuck that.

But really, there are two extremes that one has to keep in mind.  There are games like Boneworks, that are 100% made for VR and thus both take advantage of and are limited by the technology itself.  What that means to you is probably highly individual.

On the other extreme, there are traditional games adapted for VR....Minecraft, Skyrim, Fallout, Serious Sam, Doom, etc.  When done right, those are the same games you know already, just with you on the inside.  That won't appeal to everyone.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #603 on: January 30, 2020, 11:22:16 PM

Ok, I think I may be about to take the VR plunge.  Main question, what is the difference between the Rift S and the Index exactly (other than $500)?  I see Rift S has a bit less resolution, but can't really tell what difference other stats make.  I'm assuming a Rift can play any of the VR games on steam, as well as it's own exclusives?

Also, what's the general opinion of the Cosmos?  Seems to have stats on par with the Index, but at a price point in between it and the Rift S.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 12:32:45 AM by Teleku »

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Cyrrex
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Reply #604 on: January 31, 2020, 01:00:55 AM

Cosmo probably doesn't make sense...it is similar to the Rift S in a number of ways, but quite a bit more expensive I think.  So your original question is the better one.  Rift S or Index.  The latter is more expensive as an entire package, but you knew that already.  Aside from that, here are the key differences:

Resolution:  More horizontal lines in the Index (1600 vs 1440 I think), and this fact alone makes it way better.  Resolution is king when it comes to VR (assuming FPS is maintained).  Index also has far more subpixels.

Screen:  Both are LCD.  Both suffer from similar issues with contrast.

Viewing angle:  Theoretical FOV in the Index is 130 degrees against something like 110 on the Rift S.  In the real world it probably isn't the thing that will matter most to you.

Refresh Rate:  Rift S is locked at 80hz, which would is generally considered bare minimum.  Index does 80, 90, 120 and even 144hz.  Takes insane horsepower to take advantage of it, but it is there and it certainly makes the Index the better option over the long run.  Full disclosure:  not everyone can even perceive the differences.  For me, 80 works fine for most things, though I do try to turn it up whenever possible.  My teenagers think 120 looks miles better (better, younger eyes).  The idea is that everything feels hyper-real when the FPS is higher.

Tracking:  The differences here don't get talked about enough.  Rift S has the advantage of inside-out tracking....the HMD and the Controllers are tracking each other via cameras and sensors, and the cameras map out your space.  The main advantage there is that the setup is easier and does not require you to actually mount external cameras or sensors in your space.  OTOH, it comes with a major drawback, at least in theory....controller occlusion.  If the 5 cameras on the headset do not see the controller (behind your back, for example), then it doesn't exist.  The Index uses the external lighthouses.  You pre-map your space, and then these lighthouses track both your HMD and controllers.  There is zero occlusion with controllers, and the accuracy of the tracking is mind blowing.  I would be curious to hear from the Rift S owners how this plays out in real life.  

Sound:  The Index headphones are so much better than everything else that it is not even funny.  As good as any 150 dollar headset on the market.


So, all told, the though process is this:  Do I have the space to setup the external lighthouses and the money to buy an Index?  Then buy an Index.  Do I lack either the willingness to setup the lighthouses or lack the money for an Index?  Buy a Rift S.

Don't worry about the games.  Where there's a will, there's a way.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 01:02:44 AM by Cyrrex »

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #605 on: January 31, 2020, 11:14:34 PM

Thanks for all that!  I started deep diving a little more, and basically came to similar conclusions.  Though it looks like something completely tangent will be the deciding factor.

I wear hearing aids.  Rift S uses earphones, and at this point even nice big enclosed headphones causes feedback when placed over my ears with hearing aids in (and sounds seems funky).  Index way of doing sound may be the only actual option for me with my particular handicap.

I have plenty of space to set things up and both a PC an Laptop that are well over the required specs for it.  Dropping a grand on something I'll probably just fuck around with randomly doesn't feel too great, but it will be a fun toy to show off to people/girls I bring over to my apartment, so it will be useful in other ways.   awesome, for real

Main issue is that, um, it looks like the Index is sold out?  Seems you can only sign up to be notified of when it's available on Valves web page.  Also, it comes with two of the motion tracking docks.  Are those enough, or are you expected to buy more in all practicality?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 11:16:05 PM by Teleku »

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Cyrrex
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Reply #606 on: February 01, 2020, 05:41:44 AM

Well over the specs?  Do tell.

And yeah, it is perpetually sold out.

The Ďmotion tracking docksí you refer to I assume are the lighthouses.  Not only do you not need more, you cannot use more.  They are not cameras, like the old Oculus stuff.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #607 on: February 01, 2020, 07:10:19 AM

Sorry, used the wrong terms now that I look back.  It comes with two "Base Stations" that it says are for the motion tracking.  I assume that's what you mean when you use the word Lighthouse.  And whew, good I don't need to buy more, because those things are fucking pricey.

Anyways, looking back, I see I was comparing it to the minimum specs, not the recommended (of which I'm still above).  I built my current machine two years ago, and purchased my laptop this year, so think both are hopefully still in good shape to support.

Workstation:
Geforce GTX 1080 Ti
Intel Core i7-8700K (6 Cores, 4.7GHz)
16 GB DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)

Laptop:
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060, 6GB GDDR6
Intel Core i7-9750H (12MB Cache, up to 4.5 GHz, 6 cores)
16GB, 2x8GB, DDR4, 2666MHz

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Cyrrex
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Reply #608 on: February 03, 2020, 06:24:10 AM

Yeah, Base Station = Lighthouse.  You're good, two does the trick.

Your Workstation will do pretty well.  The laptop would probably struggle with some stuff, but it would depend on what you play.

Unrelated, but for a purely sit-down game, Trover Saves the Universe might be worth a look.  It is basically a Rick & Morty platformer, where you can replace R & M with random alien dudes.  The whole game is based on you sitting on your ass with an xbox controller (you are from a race of Chairmorpians or some shit).  Pretty hilarious.


"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #609 on: February 03, 2020, 07:54:27 AM

Heh, I actually had a change of heart.  I realized I had misread, and the Rift S actually has rear mounted speakers built in, as well as also having an audio jack for headphones.  I think before when I was reading reviews that everybody only used headphones because apparently the speakers kind of suck, but whatever.  I've also been reading forums and have found people have been waiting over a month or two to get an Index to date, and I just don't feel like waiting around.  Put in an order for a Rift S today.  I think it will be good enough for my needs, and it's also a safer investment into seeing if I actually like VR or not.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Sky
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Reply #610 on: February 03, 2020, 08:43:40 AM

I had my first real temptation to VR over the weekend...PSVR  why so serious?

Found out the golf game (The Golf Club) I play on the PS4 has a VR version. It would be nice to be able to see the lie in 3D, it would actually add gameplay value.

But....PSVR at the end of life of the PS4 cycle...I'll wait for the new hotness...

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Reply #611 on: February 03, 2020, 11:40:47 AM

Pretty sure the same golf game is available on PC VR.

Teleku, not sure what your logic about the audio is, but sounds like you prefer relative lower cost entry point, so it is all good.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Sky
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Reply #612 on: February 03, 2020, 01:19:17 PM

Yep, it is. Though now I wish they'd do the new 2019 version in a VR version, since the QoL upgrades are significant over TGC 2 (which I believe TGC VR is based on).

If that happened...I might actually bite on an Index, since it might be playable with my 970.

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Reply #613 on: February 03, 2020, 08:14:04 PM

Pretty sure the same golf game is available on PC VR.

Teleku, not sure what your logic about the audio is, but sounds like you prefer relative lower cost entry point, so it is all good.
My logic is I can't wear headphones without the sound being all jacked up.  I thought you needed headphones for the Rift S, but turns out you don't, so I can actually use it.  If I could buy an Index right now, I'd probably impulse buy it.  But since it looks like I may have to potentially wait a month or two to even order one, I'll go ahead and just take the safer lower cost entry point NOW.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Cyrrex
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Reply #614 on: February 04, 2020, 12:30:04 AM

Gotcha, that makes sense.  Also, in case it wasn't obvious, you can choose to use another sound source entirely.  Like if you want to just use PC speakers or something more elaborate.  You loose some localization, but for many games that doesn't mean much.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Sky
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Reply #615 on: February 04, 2020, 08:17:02 AM

No way to hook up bluetooth hearing aids? I feel we're going to have to wait for Gen X to get about 10 years older before we get better integration than the most mainstream consumer electronic support (aka boomers). I've already started to pay attention to the state of the art (working road construction + being a musician = burned out ears), and it's....lacking.

Heck, I was bummed I couldn't feed my PS4's output to my Jabra bt buds.

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Reply #616 on: February 04, 2020, 10:28:34 AM

No idea.  I think any issues with hooking up a BT hearing aid, or any device, has to do with the device itself.  You could certainly use ordinary BT headphones.

PS4 is different.  That is just Sony choosing to lock their shit down, I believe.

Keep in mind, the Index doesnít have headphones as such....they are speakers at a short remove from your ears, and really, really excellent.  No idea what that means for anyone with a hearing issue.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #617 on: February 05, 2020, 12:33:10 AM

It should be just fine (its when you fully enclose/block your ears that they get feedback), but guess it's hard to say until you try.

I really wish I could take advantage of all the Bluetooth integration with hearing aid stuff, but I'm prohibited from having hearing aids with Bluetooth.  :(

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Cyrrex
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Reply #618 on: February 05, 2020, 12:35:42 AM

Ah.....security risk.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Sky
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Reply #619 on: February 05, 2020, 09:01:46 AM

I hear that!


 awesome, for real

Yegolev
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Reply #620 on: February 05, 2020, 09:51:15 AM

I did not have any controller occlusion on the Rift S.

Sound is fine for me without a headset.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Cyrrex
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Reply #621 on: February 05, 2020, 11:32:55 AM

I did not have any controller occlusion on the Rift S.

Sound is fine for me without a headset.

Well, only certain things might trigger it, if I understand how the Rift S works.  Would you be able to, for example, do a no look behind-the-back melee slash or stab on an approaching bad guy?  Or shoot a zombie you know is sneaking up behind you?  I donít know where all the sensors are, I just assume there will be blind spots where the controller disappears.  If not, thatís pretty impressive.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #622 on: February 05, 2020, 02:13:24 PM

I don't believe I had any occasion to swing behind myself, especially since I would just turn my head or spin around. What I do know is that I was always able to track the controllers while they were in my field of view, and there wasn't any issue with a delayed reappearance when I moved them out of and then into my FOV. I don't think I have the correct software to be able to determine if my controllers are tracking when I'm not looking at them.

Considering the design, I was pretty impressed with the general room-awareness of the Rift S. The guard frames, once defined, stayed in place in relation to the walls and furniture even with helmet removals and other hijinks.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
MournelitheCalix
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Reply #623 on: February 05, 2020, 08:40:17 PM

Has anyone tried the Walking Dead:  Saints & Sinners on oculus yet?

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Reply #624 on: February 11, 2020, 01:53:23 AM

Has anyone tried the Walking Dead:  Saints & Sinners on oculus yet?

I just got it the other day....on Index, of course.

The game is flying a bit under the radar, and I am not sure why.  I started playing it over the weekend, and made it far enough to realize that, oh shit, this is actually a game where I might need to slow down and think about what I am doing and about how shit works.  I was prepared for something more like Arizona Sunshine, which while good for what it is, just has you going around murdering zombies and being accurate enough that you don't run out of ammo during your endless killing spree.

This is not like that at all.  You have to scavenge and manage resources, pack space, etc., and there is a lot of basic crafting you have to do.  You will, for example, find simple melee weapons like shivs and screwdrivers, but they will decay and break rather quickly.  So you not only have to be on the lookout for more potential weapons to use, but also materials to use to craft new ones.  Upon dying for the first time, I discovered that it does the old Dropped Pack trick.  I respawned with nothing and had to do a corpse run.  That run failed, I died again, and all my loot was gone.  I decided to restart at that point, because I didn't realize there was going to to be this much "game" to the game.  Needless to say, I consider that a hugely pleasant surprise.  Few VR games have what appear to be this kind of depth (we'll see if it holds up) beyond the combat parts.  This feels more like one of the zombie survival games going back 5 years or more, brought into VR, but there appears to be a narrative to the whole thing that fits into the Walking Dead universe.

A few other quick factoids:

Graphics:  look and run very nice.  They went with a more comic style, I want to compare it to the Telltale TWD games.  I think it was a good choice.

Combat:  semi-tense melee that does a good job of feeling like the TV series portrays it.  You try to make sure you take them on one at a time, and because of your weapons being pretty brittle, you have to be cautious.  Usually, I try to grab them on the side of the head with my left hand to keep them at bay while piercing the skull with a shiv in my right hand.  Missing or otherwise failing to kill effectively will cause wear on your weapons, and also risk you getting overwhelmed by other zombies.  Gun combat....not enough info.  Guns are a last resort, both because of rarity (early on at least) and because of the noise.

Itemization:  There is shit everywhere, and you spend much of your time looking for it, sorting through it and figuring out what is useful.  In a pinch, you might have to grab a whiskey bottle, smash it on a door frame and see if you can stick it through a zombie skull.

Other:  Sound matters.  Make too much and those sumbitches will gang up on you.  Want to call a zombie over to you?  Actually say "hey shithead!" out loud into your mic and they will saunter over in your direction, which is not only funny, but it is also useful.  

Anyway, this game has gotten into my head a bit, I wasn't expecting it to be as good as it appears it might be.  I hesitate only because of the restart I made means I am still not very far into it.  Also, if you are reading reviews, be wary of negative reviews talking about head position, HMD based locomotion, or crouching issues.  These have been corrected.


"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #625 on: February 13, 2020, 07:13:11 AM

My Rift S came in today.  Got it all setup and went through their intro things.

Jesus Christ, the future is now.  That was a lot more impressive than I thought it would be.  I mean, beyond amazing visuals, we'll see how fun games are to actually play on it.  But damn.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Cyrrex
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Reply #626 on: February 13, 2020, 10:51:16 AM

One of Us!  One of Us!

Not sure what kind of games you are into, but feel free to ask.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #627 on: February 13, 2020, 08:38:27 PM

I'm up for anything really.  Only really Beat Saber so far (and it's fucking great).  Curious what your top recommendations are.

Though also curious if there are any 1.)  Legit scary ghost/freaky room type games 2.)  Games designed for sitting down.  I'm planning on using Beat Saber to help stay in shape, so I'm fine with all the room scale stuff.  Just curious what the other side offers, heh.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
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Reply #628 on: February 13, 2020, 10:21:20 PM

Back to Walking Dead for a minute, I really appreciate Cyrrex's down to earth reviews. I made the mistake of trying to watch some of the "regular" youtube/twitcher/whatever reviewers and reaffirmed that I've just never been that type of gamer. Even Yahtzee, whose style is undeniably entertaining, is just totally jaded over features I still find fun.

And some of the other guys: I mean, complaining because you can't climb into every car and go into every building? Is there any sizable game where you can?

I haven't gotten the Index yet, so I'm still living vicariously. Maybe later this year...
Cyrrex
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Reply #629 on: February 14, 2020, 12:05:58 AM

Back to Walking Dead for a minute, I really appreciate Cyrrex's down to earth reviews. I made the mistake of trying to watch some of the "regular" youtube/twitcher/whatever reviewers and reaffirmed that I've just never been that type of gamer. Even Yahtzee, whose style is undeniably entertaining, is just totally jaded over features I still find fun.

And some of the other guys: I mean, complaining because you can't climb into every car and go into every building? Is there any sizable game where you can?

I haven't gotten the Index yet, so I'm still living vicariously. Maybe later this year...


A lot of the complaints for games like Skyrim and Fallout being converted to VR were all like "wait, you mean I cannot grab the lids of treasure chests, open them up, reach in and grab the contents between my thumb and forefinger?  This is not VR!!".  Which is beyond stupid.  No way in those kinds of games do you want to be fumbling around with that kind of shit, especially consider how much interaction it would actually require.  Some made for VR games do it to a limited degree (see:  Walking Dead), but they rarely or never go all out with that stuff.  If I want to do that kind of thing, I can just go clean my kitchen or something.  That isn't the kind of shit that makes games fun.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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