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Author Topic: Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen turns out to be a real game (real bad, geddit?)  (Read 232493 times)
Brolan
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Reply #70 on: November 06, 2013, 10:04:00 PM

I love that this isn't a 20 page thread that will probably page 2 and therefore die in a week. Between this and there being no Shroud thread (on purpose), I feel like some of the more ridiculous milestones in the past are finally behind us.

No!  We cannot forget the past of High Fantasy MMORPGs.   "Those who cannot remember the past of MMORPGs are condemned to repeat it" - some Spanish guy

We cannot let this thread die!!!!
Lucas
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Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.


Reply #71 on: January 03, 2014, 06:06:55 PM

Yep, put those popcorns in the microwave!!

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/01/03/mcquaids-mmo-is-pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/

Aaand:

http://www.rerolled.org/showthread.php?3460-Pantheon-Rise-of-the-Fallen&s=26da4bd9c17dedecf40d688b9cf099db&p=514967&viewfull=1#post514967

Quote
Originally Posted by Convo  View Post
[Brad- will you be talking about your past in regard to VG and what you've learned in the KS? That seems to be a point of contention for a lot of folks.]

If I need to, yes. I really don't want to dwell on the past -- it's time to be forward thinking and to get excited about the future. That said, you guys need to know that we've learned from our mistakes so some discussion may be appropriate. If we aren't honest and we don't learn from the past, then the past was simply a failure and a defeat. I refuse to look at it that way and we won't be defeated by the mistakes of the past, because we are going to learn from them and do a better job this time. I've learned so much, especially about myself, because of both my successes and my failures.

For me it all came in a frustrating sequence. 9 times out of 10 a person fails, fails, fails, and then succeeds (if he ever succeeds at all). For me it was 1. huge success (half a billion dollars of profit for Sony, etc.), 2. Commercial failure (I say commercial because I still think VG was awesome in many ways and Iím still proud of it)

Anyway, the success first and failure second really jacked with my mind. I became extremely arrogant, thinking whatever I touched would turn into gold. And then when things didn't work out so well on my second try it was really quite a blow to me because I had deluded myself big time. I ended up in a bad place and I never want to be back there again, ever.

But also in learning more about myself over the years, I know this is what I want to do for the rest of my life: make MMOs that I and other gamers want to play. It's just who I am and it's the only thing that professionally makes me happy.

I just don't want to get bogged down in the past too much. If it makes sense to discuss something about the past, then I'll participate. But to be totally upfront and honest, I'm here primarily to promote my new game. It's a blast talking with you all, and I'm here for that as well, but let's spend most of the time here together facing forward. We will need your feedback and opinions in order to insure we make the game you guys want and that I want. It's about community building and being accessible.

Anyways, I hope that makes sense.

-Brad

Aaand:
https://twitter.com/Aradune/status/419213075472842752

 DRILLING AND MANLINESS DRILLING AND MANLINESS

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Tannhauser
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Reply #72 on: January 04, 2014, 06:23:46 AM

Miasma
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Stopgap Measure


Reply #73 on: January 04, 2014, 08:18:00 AM

Quote from: People who have terrible track records
I really don't want to dwell on the past.
sam, an eggplant
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Reply #74 on: January 04, 2014, 10:27:36 AM

Not sure what kind of mea culpa would satisfy you guys. He said he was deluded by initial success and apologized for being arrogant. All of that rang true to me. I like playing great games, so I hope he makes one. I'm certainly not giving him money in a kickstarter, though!
satael
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Reply #75 on: January 04, 2014, 11:03:19 AM

Maybe he'll make a MMO that will have all the stuff that should have been in Vanguard (according to his "vision")  why so serious?
Morat20
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Reply #76 on: January 04, 2014, 12:11:23 PM

Not sure what kind of mea culpa would satisfy you guys. He said he was deluded by initial success and apologized for being arrogant. All of that rang true to me. I like playing great games, so I hope he makes one. I'm certainly not giving him money in a kickstarter, though!
Without rehashing history, isn't that a standard game development -- heck, project development path? You have a successful project -- especially a really successful one -- and your next you tend to bite off way more than you can chew.

And in game development, you tend to ignore feedback because you "got it right" last time so obviously you know what people want.

I'm not exactly a McQuaid fan, but it seems he basically jumped headfirst into the standard pitfalls of his industry. The fun combination of software and artistic hubris. :)
sam, an eggplant
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Reply #77 on: January 04, 2014, 01:05:54 PM

Like many here I am very aware of the context and held my own opinions on McQuaid. But that was over 10 years ago. I would never invest in a kickstarter, but I accept his apology and if he manages to release a great game I will jump right in.
Falconeer
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Reply #78 on: January 04, 2014, 01:23:40 PM

Interesting...

Quote from: Brad McQuaid
This game has a target audience -- it is not designed to be a huge all-things-for-all-people game. It needs to be focused, and that focus needs to be making sure we're we're making a game that that audience wants. This game will be smaller, it's feature set specific, and the focus will be on making it fun first for that audience. Feature creep would destroy this game, period.

Anyway, I want to say that I liked his apology.

Pennilenko
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Reply #79 on: January 04, 2014, 02:26:59 PM

Interesting...

Quote from: Brad McQuaid
This game has a target audience -- it is not designed to be a huge all-things-for-all-people game. It needs to be focused, and that focus needs to be making sure we're we're making a game that that audience wants. This game will be smaller, it's feature set specific, and the focus will be on making it fun first for that audience. Feature creep would destroy this game, period.

Anyway, I want to say that I liked his apology.
That didn't sound like an apology. It was more like just an honest look at how he views his personal history. I'm not sure he owes anyone other than ex employees an apology.

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
Falconeer
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Reply #80 on: January 04, 2014, 02:48:45 PM

I don't really care much about this, but I agree with you that the only people he owes apologies to are former employees and co-workers, which is what I get out of this quote:

Quote
Anyway, the success first and failure second really jacked with my mind. I became extremely arrogant, thinking whatever I touched would turn into gold.

KallDrexx
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Reply #81 on: January 04, 2014, 07:41:49 PM

Not sure what kind of mea culpa would satisfy you guys. He said he was deluded by initial success and apologized for being arrogant. All of that rang true to me. I like playing great games, so I hope he makes one. I'm certainly not giving him money in a kickstarter, though!
Without rehashing history, isn't that a standard game development -- heck, project development path? You have a successful project -- especially a really successful one -- and your next you tend to bite off way more than you can chew.

I've known enough people who didn't even need a successful game or project in order to fall into that category. 
palmer_eldritch
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Reply #82 on: January 04, 2014, 08:46:15 PM

Pantheon Rise of the Fallen - the modern, challenging, group-focused MMO game.

This thread will never die.
Pennilenko
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Reply #83 on: January 04, 2014, 08:53:58 PM

Pantheon Rise of the Fallen - the modern, challenging, group-focused MMO game.

This thread will never die.
Nothing wrong with wanting to make a game like that. Besides with the bits of conversation he has been having around the net, I get the impression that they aren't shooting for a big AAA game and are instead shooting for making a game in that small under served niche.

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
Hutch
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Reply #84 on: January 05, 2014, 12:03:09 AM

Pantheon Rise of the Fallen - the modern, challenging, group-focused MMO game.

This thread will never die.

The Vanguard thread died  why so serious?

edit: I should say "threads". There were more than one.

Plant yourself like a tree
Haven't you noticed? We've been sharing our culture with you all morning.
The sun will shine on us again, brother
DayDream
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Reply #85 on: January 05, 2014, 12:04:26 AM

making an apology is not the same skill as designing a game, or building a company, or managing a production process, etc.


Also, i think the explanation was pretty good, but i don't think he really gets to say "i really don't want to dwell on the past."  I don't think he's earned the respect for that.
Hutch
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Reply #86 on: January 05, 2014, 12:15:54 AM

It seems to me that what he really wants to do is get to work on his "modern, challenging, group-focused MMO game". If he didn't have to address questions about the Vanguard disaster, he wouldn't.

But, if he didn't make that statement (apology, acknowledgement, whatever it is), then people would be after him until he did produce it.

Plant yourself like a tree
Haven't you noticed? We've been sharing our culture with you all morning.
The sun will shine on us again, brother
Chimpy
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Reply #87 on: January 05, 2014, 01:10:49 PM

Bets on if the parking lot debacle at Sigil is reprised on exactly the 10 year anniversary?

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Paelos
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Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #88 on: January 05, 2014, 03:18:50 PM

Never buy anything from anybody who doesn't want to explain their very obvious past fuckups.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
DayDream
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Reply #89 on: January 05, 2014, 03:50:50 PM

yea,h sure, he WANTS to get to work on his thing and move on from the past.  I seem to remember something about opiate addiction or something in the sigil fuckup, so that seems very understandable.  But why should anyone else play along?
Hutch
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Reply #90 on: January 05, 2014, 05:40:52 PM

We can sit here in the peanut gallery and fling witty bon mots at him from now until whatever equivalent of the parking lot debacle befalls this project. And I intend to do just that. But, those of us who are taking that route really aren't in a position to demand anything from him. If you want to see him grovel just for the sake of it, you are probably out of luck.

Anyone who plans to invest in the Kickstarter or any other fundraising is entitled to seek more in-depth answers, if they feel that they need them. Having taken a look through some of that Rerolled thread, there are at least a few old-school holdouts who will say "shut up and take my money" just because it's Aradune. Whether there are enough of those types remains to be seen.
I wouldn't expect him to voluntarily put forth any more answers unless he feels like it will attract more dollars.

Plant yourself like a tree
Haven't you noticed? We've been sharing our culture with you all morning.
The sun will shine on us again, brother
Paelos
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Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #91 on: January 05, 2014, 06:07:27 PM

If you want to see him grovel just for the sake of it, you are probably out of luck.

I want to see him grovel for going to Kickstarter. I want them all to beg and grovel because that's all this is. It's a fancy version of begging on the street with a will work for food sign.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
dusematic
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Reply #92 on: January 07, 2014, 02:06:47 PM

I'm all in baby.  Aradune, fuck yeah!  The only thing that could be better than this is if McQuaid started dating Garriot and they had a butt baby that constantly Corp Por'd all over it's Flippy Darkpaws.
Venkman
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Reply #93 on: January 07, 2014, 05:54:19 PM

It seems to me that what he really wants to do is get to work on his "modern, challenging, group-focused MMO game". If he didn't have to address questions about the Vanguard disaster, he wouldn't.

But, if he didn't make that statement (apology, acknowledgement, whatever it is), then people would be after him until he did produce it.


Yea that's the problem. Even if he did have a self-actualization moment, he's stuck with the person people knew. He's going to be threading that needle between "remember that cool thing I was attached too that I parlayed into the next thing I got all dick-ish about before going silent for a long while? Well, let's skip that second thing so you only remember me for the first thing [that got a sequel that very few people care about and may get a sequel of its own that potentially goes far afield of anything I might even try and do because all I want to do is have another go at the second thing I tried to do but for which I have a much keener sense of the actual size of the market which is hella smaller than I thought]. Pay me!"

Easy sell  awesome, for real
Falconeer
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Reply #94 on: January 07, 2014, 06:47:26 PM

Back to the game, Brad just said:

Quote
Yes, and it's even possible that in order to achieve your next level, that you'll have to go through a dungeon, perhaps one that wouldn't let you in before, and complete some 'Achievements' in order to advance. Like I've hinted in the past, our Achievement system will be integrated into how you reach your next level, unlike other games where they're just 'cool' to unlock. Unlocking them in Pantheon will have meaning.

Also, the game will be much more group oriented than Vanguard.

Hutch
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Reply #95 on: January 07, 2014, 07:21:44 PM

Back to the game, Brad just said:

Quote
Yes, and it's even possible that in order to achieve your next level, that you'll have to go through a dungeon, perhaps one that wouldn't let you in before, and complete some 'Achievements' in order to advance. Like I've hinted in the past, our Achievement system will be integrated into how you reach your next level, unlike other games where they're just 'cool' to unlock. Unlocking them in Pantheon will have meaning.

Also, the game will be much more group oriented than Vanguard.

Christ, he's still taking passive-aggressive potshots at WoW? He's already delivered on the fail that I was drooling over on page 1. Keep it coming, Aradune.

Plant yourself like a tree
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The sun will shine on us again, brother
Paelos
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Reply #96 on: January 07, 2014, 07:39:22 PM

He used a version of my unforgivable word in development.

Meaning(ful).

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Morat20
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Reply #97 on: January 07, 2014, 08:45:32 PM

He used a version of my unforgivable word in development.

Meaning(ful).
In my experience, it means "cock block" or "not meaningful".
UnSub
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Reply #98 on: January 07, 2014, 09:03:03 PM

Pantheon Rise of the Fallen - the modern, challenging, group-focused MMO game.

This thread will never die.

Also, is there a MMO name generator that McQuaid used for this project? I'm struggling to think of a more generic name he could have picked.

Anyway, he's basically said a lot of the same things that Mark Jacobs did - not making a MMO for the masses, I've learned from my mistakes, please donate me your money because investors no longer trust me.

dusematic
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Reply #99 on: January 07, 2014, 11:12:30 PM

Pantheon Rise of the Fallen - the modern, challenging, group-focused MMO game.

This thread will never die.

Also, is there a MMO name generator that McQuaid used for this project? I'm struggling to think of a more generic name he could have picked.



Needs more colon.
Draegan
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Reply #100 on: January 07, 2014, 11:59:40 PM

He used a version of my unforgivable word in development.

Meaning(ful).

Eh he's got a point though in the context of a "hardcore" MMO. Much like hitting max level in WOW is "meaningful" because doing so opens up a collection of new content (Raids, Heroic Dungeons whatever), he wants to make dungeons "meaningful". In WOW dungeons prior to level cap aren't meaningful other than pure entertainment or use as a leveling mechanism that you can take or leave.

I see no problem with that statement. I suppose he wants to create additional milestones that you remember while doing the whole leveling thing.

The problem lies in the gating mechanism. If it's stupid where it's a 20% drop from and end game boss that takes 5 hours to complete, that's stupid. If it's something you need to put your name on a waiting list for, that's stupid. But if it's defeating a difficult encounter with a group of people, that's pretty cool and different. Tons of single player games do that.
Tannhauser
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Reply #101 on: January 08, 2014, 04:51:44 AM

There's room in the market for a modern group play MMO.  But by this guy?  'Punishing cockblock' springs to mind.
shiznitz
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Reply #102 on: January 08, 2014, 10:03:41 AM

Back to the game, Brad just said:

Quote
Yes, and it's even possible that in order to achieve your next level, that you'll have to go through a dungeon, perhaps one that wouldn't let you in before, and complete some 'Achievements' in order to advance. Like I've hinted in the past, our Achievement system will be integrated into how you reach your next level, unlike other games where they're just 'cool' to unlock. Unlocking them in Pantheon will have meaning.

Also, the game will be much more group oriented than Vanguard.

So in order to actually get to your next level even though you have enough exp, you will have to complete a dungeon instance, probably with strangers.  When one of these strangers fucks up or gets disconnected 80% in, you will have to start over = FUN! damnit.

I have never played WoW.
Tmon
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Reply #103 on: January 08, 2014, 10:12:47 AM

Back to the game, Brad just said:

Quote
Yes, and it's even possible that in order to achieve your next level, that you'll have to go through a dungeon, perhaps one that wouldn't let you in before, and complete some 'Achievements' in order to advance. Like I've hinted in the past, our Achievement system will be integrated into how you reach your next level, unlike other games where they're just 'cool' to unlock. Unlocking them in Pantheon will have meaning.

Also, the game will be much more group oriented than Vanguard.

So in order to actually get to your next level even though you have enough exp, you will have to complete a dungeon instance, probably with strangers.  When one of these strangers fucks up or gets disconnected 80% in, you will have to start over = FUN! damnit.

I'm going to bet that not only will you have to try again, but you will have to re-earn a chunk of XP before you do.

edited due to reply fail
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 12:34:47 PM by Tmon »
Draegan
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Reply #104 on: January 08, 2014, 12:32:47 PM

Back to the game, Brad just said:

Quote
Yes, and it's even possible that in order to achieve your next level, that you'll have to go through a dungeon, perhaps one that wouldn't let you in before, and complete some 'Achievements' in order to advance. Like I've hinted in the past, our Achievement system will be integrated into how you reach your next level, unlike other games where they're just 'cool' to unlock. Unlocking them in Pantheon will have meaning.

Also, the game will be much more group oriented than Vanguard.

So in order to actually get to your next level even though you have enough exp, you will have to complete a dungeon instance, probably with strangers.  When one of these strangers fucks up or gets disconnected 80% in, you will have to start over = FUN! damnit.

So what? There are plenty of v solo friendly MMOs out there.
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