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Author Topic: Gripes, complaints and irritations.  (Read 182739 times)
Segoris
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Reply #595 on: July 06, 2011, 10:14:30 AM

There are a lot of things EQ2 did better than WoW that Rift ignored.

Mentoring, Broker vs Auction House, shared storage, guild storage, crafting, appearance gear, global chat channels, unrestricted interaction between factions, gray mobs aren't aggro, a little more ability to wander off the tracks, inventory constraints, and most everything about the UI are examples off the top of my head.  I think there were a few more really annoying things in Rift but I haven't played in months now and some of the annoying shit is thankfully starting to fade from memory.

As I said, I and many others left WoW for very specific reasons.  Finding those exact same reasons deliberately cloned back into Rift with no improvement whatsoever combined with the prohibition against third-party UI's which ameliorated some of WoW's defects was a rude shock.  Given Hartsman's record at EQ2 I expected better from him, but perhaps his hands were tied by the need to sell "WoW clone = money hats" to the investors.  I suppose being CEO and ultimately responsible for many employees and millions of dollars makes you more conservative, but overall I liked his work when he was a rebel at SOE better than his results as The Man with Rift.  Or maybe I'm giving him too much credit for the improvements made in EQ2 during his tenure there.


I think you're giving him a good amount of credit for eq2 but I think you're not giving him enough credit for Rift, especially when a number of the things you're complaining about were communicated to be being worked on so the customer knew what was upcoming a while before being put in game (guild banks and appearance tab are in game already and were mentioned they were going to be put in, customizable UI is on the test shard).  A no-restrictions inter-faction chat system isn't really necessary imo, but it wouldn't be a bad thing either.

I absolutely agree about the non-aggro gray mobs and would also love to see mentoring. I think both of these are something that should be standard features in current and upcoming MMOs and I think that eq2 did them really well. But, as for crafting, I can agree that Rift's crafting isn't great (though the crafting rifts are nice) but I cannot call eq2's crafting good.
Segoris
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Reply #596 on: July 06, 2011, 10:17:23 AM

I don't like the increase in cost they made to the planar essences in the capital cities, and the increase in cost for the T2 plaque gear.  I also don't think Raid Rifts drop near enough loot considering they are a gear bridge to T3 content, and I think they should drop as much gear as the average T2 dungeon run.

I actually like the 10 man content, but I think we waste entirely too much time on trash clearing for the 20 man raids.

I also agree that the level by questing system is horribly boring, and I cannot stand to level alt characters due to having to repeat all the Kill/Collect tasks level after level.

I didn't like the increase to essence costs on the vendors either until I put it all in perspective and realized it only takes about 5 more minutes to get an essence now compared to previously. Tthe planar essence cost increase is canceled out by doing 1 expert daily as you get roughly 2.5-3k planarite (by selling the blue currency) to cover that cost, and the daily plaques for raid rifts was doubled along with getting a bonus plaque per raid rift. I do think raid rifts should always drop 2 epics and 2 essences, but not as much gear as a t2 dungeon. T2 gear increases I didn't mind until the changes to lfd went in. Seriously, fuck the re-queue timer and deserter buffs as they aren't needed with improvements to finding a replacement member.

As for time invested clearing trash on 20man, are you guys new to raids in rift and not that many people geared out? I can understand at that point, especially since the nerf to the epic item drop rates on trash but otherwise I just don't agree as a full clear of all raid content is normally done in a single night.



From today's hotfix:

Quote from: Trion
GENERAL
* Your characters will no longer be exposed to Exposed from NPCs. That's right - no more stacking snare when trying to run through mobs!

How long'd that take?

Too long
luckton
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Reply #597 on: July 06, 2011, 10:19:39 AM

From today's hotfix:

Quote from: Trion
GENERAL
* Your characters will no longer be exposed to Exposed from NPCs. That's right - no more stacking snare when trying to run through mobs!

How long'd that take?

Too long

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Sky
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Reply #598 on: July 06, 2011, 10:31:41 AM

Don't bitch too much, it was a 5s stun at one point!  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

One thing about Rift's team. I give them a lot of shit about design choices, but they do tend to come around eventually. I just wish they'd listen to me in the first place and save a lot of time and aggravation!  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

I don't see a way around the linear levelup process that makes alts a chore, really. By the time they release an expansion, most people will have their characters ground up to 50, is it worth putting in an alternate leveling path at that point? It's nice that they can always put in more low and mid level dungeons thanks to the expert system, but I'm now going on three days of trying to find a group for plainjane IT.

Insert another gripe about the LFG tool. Am I missing something here? I can't see who is in the queue? I really miss...wait for it....EQ2's solution:



And strangely enough, that image is pulled from a Rift fan site  Ohhhhh, I see. Which quotes Scott saying "MMO != WoW"  why so serious? But to be serious, I really wish they'd start implementing the more advanced features of EQ2 rather than constantly going back to the primitive WoW well. Just because that's how WoW does it doesn't mean it's the way it should be done, ffs. Irritating.  Take that EQ2 tool and then merge it with the current Rift dungeon/quest tabs so you could have several LFG queues at once...no, that would actually be awesome so I don't expect to see it. I expect exactly what Blizzard has.

Edit to add: When I was wanting to get into IT, I wanted something like the "Group looking for more" tab, where I could offer people in a general LFG queue at the proper level range a chance to run through IT, even if that's not what they were planning. Instead, I'm sitting in a useless LFD queue nobody is using and stuck having to spam chat channels to try to put a group together. As Lionel Ritchie said, the shoes of a clown.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2011, 10:36:42 AM by Sky »

Xanthippe
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Reply #599 on: July 06, 2011, 10:47:13 AM

My cleric had a very brief shirt and no pants for a bit in the late 40s. It was not a happy time.

I love slutty clothes on my toons.  It's nice to have a choice of what to wear, regardless.  The wardrobe function is  Love Letters
Sky
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Reply #600 on: July 06, 2011, 10:57:16 AM

Actually, that was a big part of me playing retail, finally. Playing dress-up is an important part of these games. Slutty, slutty dress-up.

Also, I just want to point out that I find it amusing that I'm rallying for a grouping tool  Cthulu

luckton
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Reply #601 on: July 06, 2011, 11:08:17 AM

LFG rallying

I agree with you on how the LFG tools of EQ2, DAoC, LotRO and that generation of MMOs were great for people to cherry-pick groups/members that were actively looking and such.  I miss those days.

However, in the grande scheme of things, I think the devs of both WoW and Rift see the matchmaking LFD tool as more 'fair' to it's players, as it both rewards players for at least using the tool successfully for the random part, and ensuring that the player(s) that have been waiting for a group the longest get into a fully-formed group first.  The key, as you mentioned, is getting people to use the damn tool :P.

I think WoW does take it a baby step ahead of Rift in showing you the progress being made to form your group.  You can at least see what role the server's currently got you best getting a role at and what other player roles it also has ready.  You'd be surprised how quickly I got a group going in WoW when I'd call out in Trade that the LFD needed a healer to queue up, and behold!  Group formed.

Really, that's how I advertise myself in Rift...I'm a Support/DPS/Tank in the LFD for random and random-T1.  You want me?  Use the damn system so I get my loots.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Numtini
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Reply #602 on: July 06, 2011, 11:49:01 AM

I hate the automated tool and would far rather have a real LFG system. Having said that and having loved EQ2s, I have to say that nobody ever used it. Every group I found was from the chat channels. It was easy and worked. Oddly, in my experience, the tool that got the most use was WoW's pre-LFD group finder. It plus the chat it put you in seemed to really work well.

Unfortunately, people seem to view auto-grouping as a right and increasingly not just autogrouping, but autogrouping so that the dungeons are trivial and fast. There's already a lot of screaming that the requirements in the tool are too low.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #603 on: July 07, 2011, 08:05:33 AM

as for crafting, I can agree that Rift's crafting isn't great (though the crafting rifts are nice) but I cannot call eq2's crafting good.


I understand that the interactive crafting workstations that can hurt you if you don't pay attention is something some people will like and others wont.  The best part about EQ2 crafting though isn't the mechanics of crafting an item itself, it's about the entire system and how it integrates with the rest of the game.  (Some) crafted stuff is useful at all levels (with some exceptions at post-Max level).  Across the board at every level in every craft there are items that are useful to players, but not necessary to players.  Or you can vend items that you ground out for at least the cost of the fuel.  The simple fact that raw resources have no vendor value helps feed the player economy.  Add in rare resources which have great value in the player economy and resource collection is rewarded handsomely, while at the same time ensuring relatively low prices for the common materials needed for grinding so you can easily craft without ever harvesting a single node if that is your preference.  Rare recipes as loot drops further stimulated the player economy. The consignment system allows you to easily craft even no-drop items and no-drop materials for others using any mix of yours and their components and with their payment visible as part of the transaction.  Player housing adds all sorts of additional interesting things for you to craft and ways for you to display your crafted wares.  And the single biggest key to the whole experience is the Broker.  You can access Brokers at cities all over the world.  There is no charge for putting things on the broker, no time limit for how long it stays there, no need to micro-manage every single lot every single day, the broker fee is added to the top of the sale price as a fixed percentage and can be bypassed completely if you've put the right containers in your house and the customer is willing to go to your house to buy the item.

In Rift, I found crafting to be tedious, expensive, and time consuming, and the Auction House to be downright annoying frustrating drudgery.  In EQ2 the crafting was sometimes downright fun, still tedious, not very expensive and often even quite lucrative at all levels, and the Broker was easy, low maintenance, low cost and readily available no matter where in the world my adventures had taken me.  Honestly, the Auction House is probably the single biggest reason why I quit Rift.  It was so NOT fun, and so integral to anything I might do outside of combat, that it became an insurmountable barrier to my enjoying the game.  I literally dreaded logging in and feeling like I needed to deal with the AH, if only to empty my bags so I had room to loot something again.  And at that point, I quit.

Yes, I know I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
Sky
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Reply #604 on: July 07, 2011, 09:43:20 AM

Broker is DEFINITELY superior to the stupid AH. But it's not how Blizzard does it.

Segoris
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Reply #605 on: July 07, 2011, 01:16:24 PM

I am of complete different opinion and experience than you it seems, in both games. I found the interactive crafting a bit tedious and redundant since it could be narrowed down to two or three buttons out of the six. As a new player, the materials needed were anything but affordable for the better crafted items where as the regular items weren't worth crafting compared to items obtained via hunting and questing (admittedly, that is probably more of a server economy issue more than anything but the drop rate didn't help when you needed a lot of the rare resources for a full suit of armor). The items I could craft were obsolete by the time I was able to gather the materials and reach the right level to craft them where just earning quest items proved to be more efficient and beneficial. The writs were nice though, I'm on the fence about the crafting levels though as I wasn't too big of a fan of that but can see why some people would be. Rare recipes are in both games

The broker wasn't anything special for me since I don't mind the fees to auction items in other games being up front with a limited duration of the sale, especially since in a lot of cases the fees won't be what, 15-30% was it? I do remember trying to look up items (not knowing names of items) was rougher in the broker than the normal AH though. Being able to sell from your house is nice, but I am someone who doesn't believe housing should be standard issue in mmos. I think it fits certain mmos better than others.

Rift's crafting is the definition of redundant and tedious though. The biggest advantage, imo, is it can be done and you can craft items that are good for your level when you need them. I have yet to ever find it expensive unless attempting to create an epic item with an epic aug as a lot of the epic aug costs on the AH are expensive and they don't drop all that often (which is one of the items I think should be more common on raid rifts, but when you do 4-5 raid rifts and not a single person gets an epic augment or there was only a single junk epic aug, that sucks).
Rasix
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Reply #606 on: July 11, 2011, 11:51:06 AM

The puzzle in Moonshade is highly annoying.

1.  The area to click the buttons is far, far too small.  Very easy to think you clicked it when you didn't.  You pretty much have to spam click and that starts moving your camera around bit by bit making it harder to complete.
2.  It's too unforgiving for a game that's going to have some built in latency.  You lag a tiny bit and you're done.
3.  It's too unforgiving even without that.  A puzzle shouldn't take two people just because requires you to click like a 15 yr old on a Mountain Dew bender.
4.  Anyone can click on the globe to finish the puzzle?  Are you fucking kidding me? We finished the puzzle and some random jackass came up and clicked on the globe and took the prize.  This was after telling them to stop trying to help because they were screwing us up. Their replay was that they didn't even know it was a puzzle and they were just running around clicking like a tard.  OK, terrific.
5.  It's very griefable and good samaritans are actually a hinderance to getting it done.  Some random idiot running around clicking shit will throw you off.
6.  The big fucking zone event text from people viewing the crap at Hammerknell is a really annoyance when trying to view green and red buttons under a mass of yellow and red text.

The puzzle isn't hard mentally at all. It's easy to figure out and it's easy to figure out the optimal way to do it.  The interface and the ability for random jackholes to screw you over make it a giant pain.  Did it twice, the second time someone stole his reward and then people showing up made it impossible to complete.   Most of the other puzzles encourage others to back off and wait and at least don't suffer from the need of precision clicks and a lag/person free environment to finish.  

/nerd_rage.


« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 11:54:03 AM by Rasix »

-Rasix
dd0029
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Reply #607 on: July 11, 2011, 12:29:23 PM

The puzzle in Moonshade is highly annoying.

Up until this one, I had really enjoyed all of the puzzles and did them all. Then I got to this piece of crap and quit doing puzzles after 45 minutes trying to do it solo. There's a spot your can stand in just a bit forward and to the right where you can click all of them without moving. I never got any power to flow all the way through. I was always just a bit too slow.

The only other puzzle I've tried is the Stillmoore bat one. No where near as annoying, but still frustrating. Again nothing like the earlier puzzles. Playing against the interface is never a good idea.

I don't bother with puzzles anymore.
Nebu
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Reply #608 on: July 11, 2011, 12:35:23 PM

Moonshade and Stillmoor cured me of ever wanting to do puzzles again.  Fighting lag and the interface isn't my idea of fun.  Challenge my mind, please.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Rasix
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Reply #609 on: July 11, 2011, 12:37:06 PM

The puzzle in Moonshade is highly annoying.

Up until this one, I had really enjoyed all of the puzzles and did them all. Then I got to this piece of crap and quit doing puzzles after 45 minutes trying to do it solo. There's a spot your can stand in just a bit forward and to the right where you can click all of them without moving. I never got any power to flow all the way through. I was always just a bit too slow.

The only other puzzle I've tried is the Stillmoore bat one. No where near as annoying, but still frustrating. Again nothing like the earlier puzzles. Playing against the interface is never a good idea.

I don't bother with puzzles anymore.

Yah, I found that spot.  I had it nearly done solo and then I misclicked one (as my arm started to cramp from all of the damn clicking) and my entire progress was shot in less than a second.

Best way was to trace the flow back from the exit with about a 3 count in between each click. Then just keep spam clicking in a cycle.  It's doable, but you have to be perfect.  You can't misclick and you can't lag at all.

Huge disappointment resulting from a rather minor point of the game.

-Rasix
Sky
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Reply #610 on: July 11, 2011, 01:05:16 PM

the ability for random jackholes to screw you over make it a giant pain.  
I remember in the pre-launch hype Scott at one point said he wanted gathering (mining, etc) to be non-competitive. In that you didn't need to worry about someone 'stealing' your node because you were fighting the monster next to it. The whole spirit of rift was to be of cooperation (except pvp obviously), where more players = better experience.

Not only did that not happen at all with gathering (my first day in retail someone nabbed the ore node while I was fighting the mob next to it), but this world event is obnoxious with everyone in Meridian chasing after the same npc and static item spawns and trying to beat everyone to them. So in practice you either sit or run around looking for the npc/item to spawn and then you race to it and hope you beat everyone else to it. Waiting and hoping to not be screwed are not my idea of fun.

I messed with one puzzle once and didn't bother looking for any of the others.

dd0029
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Reply #611 on: July 11, 2011, 02:23:06 PM

Ran across my first completely fail healer in an expert this weekend. I'm actually rather surprised at how well my groups have gone to this point. I have to admit to some misgivings when I noticed the healer was sporting a greater faerie. But, even on my own cleric I've not paid any attention to the druid tree so I figured it was some sort of unique snowflake build that most likely worked. Then we wiped on the first pull in T1 Iron Tomb. But we had a fresh rogue tank who admitted to their newbness and took the fail. We struggled up to the spider boss. I was barding my ass off with hammering out the Coda of Restorations. Two of us survived the Spider boss by some uknown fluke. Then we get to whiny guy, easiest guy in the whole place. The first missed dodge/parry on the rogue's part created a deficit that the healer could never recover from. So, the warrior in the group offers to tank. He switches gear and spec and turns out a very respectable 9900 hp. Even that poor bastard couldn't survive the whole fight. We did manage it when I virtuoso'd out 15 seconds of Coda of Restoration on the rogue. I left the dungeon and then left the group.
Sky
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Reply #612 on: July 11, 2011, 03:33:10 PM

My main problem as a MH was that I was always running full warden and never got used to any of the other healing souls. So spike damage in the expert dungeons on bosses was a problem. In each dungeon there was usually one guy that would give me a lot of trouble.

March
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Reply #613 on: July 11, 2011, 04:11:03 PM

Gripe the first: Riding over an entire Zone to do Zone events... with attending aggro and just un-fun riding hither and yon.

Fix: Ascended power: aggro-free speed boost to mount.  If you are Rifting, then you'll replenish the ascended power token with each closed rift.

If you are just traveling and want faster/easier a-to-b, then hey... Ascended <-- file under perqs.

---

Gripe the second, if there is a zone event, suggest showing the friendly (public) raid groups on the map so one can head to the right spot (if desired); oh, and see Gripe the first.
Sky
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Reply #614 on: July 11, 2011, 06:32:17 PM

That's especially fun in Freemarch before you get a mount. Figure a raid boss level mob might live long enough to...nope.

I'd almost add a gripe about level 50 players sweeping through Freemarch cleaning out all the collection shinies, but I figure that's normal for mmo. Though I didn't care to sit slogging through mobs in the scarred mire where I could see four different shinies in the graveyard but got zero as some dude just rolled through grabbing them. Being an mmo peon is fucking great. The Culture needs to develop an mmo.

A guest gripe from the fiancee: Why ar the cats purple and white and dead looking? How about some tigers and panthers ffs.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 06:44:10 PM by Sky »

Soln
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Reply #615 on: July 12, 2011, 04:33:56 PM

I'm /played nearly 24 hrs into the game, about to ding 20.  Having Fun.

But WTF is up with PvP?  I've done maybe 2 dozen+ Garden BG's (lvl 10-19) and without exaggeration maybe only 25% of those were wins.  There seems to be a consistent (?) superiority by Defiants.

So my question is about twinking: I don't assume there is some design inbalance, but these folks besides being maybe more skilled (every time?) must be alts.  Is twinking a big deal in PvP here?  I'm not really complaining, I just can't understand how else the other side can always win -- and win badly like ~20:500 so many, many times.  I have to believe there are buying high end PvE gear to equip these alts for advantage.  Is this real?
Nebu
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Reply #616 on: July 12, 2011, 06:57:30 PM

So my question is about twinking: I don't assume there is some design inbalance, but these folks besides being maybe more skilled (every time?) must be alts.  Is twinking a big deal in PvP here?  I'm not really complaining, I just can't understand how else the other side can always win -- and win badly like ~20:500 so many, many times.  I have to believe there are buying high end PvE gear to equip these alts for advantage.  Is this real?

Not much twinking going on.  The superiority comes from three things:

a) PvP enthusiasts tend to roll defiant.

b) Spec (Soul build) is VERY important in pvp. 

c) Luck of the draw with servers and the bracket that you're in.  Most players you'll meet in the under 50 brackets are players working on alts that know pvp well.

Playing on Keenblade at endgame seems to be the exception.  On Dimroot, defiants won 80%.  On Keenblade, defiants lose 80%. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Sjofn
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Reply #617 on: July 17, 2011, 08:01:47 AM

The world event water invader mobs can fucking kiss my ass.

God Save the Horn Players
kildorn
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Reply #618 on: July 17, 2011, 11:57:40 PM

Black Garden's mechanics are also designed to end in blowouts one way or the other. 400:500 games in there are exceedingly rare, just because of how the murderball concept works and the horrible map design (retaking the shard pretty much requires the other side doing something amazingly stupid, like giving it to their healer or leaving cover to go melee the other team)

It also has some silly mechanics that are unexplained to lowbies (AEing the shard doesn't stop pickups, only single target damage does. Absorbs don't interrupt the pickup either, so you'll see clerics who know this happily walk in and pick it up under fire)

I really dislike the design of Black Garden.
Zetor
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Reply #619 on: July 18, 2011, 01:02:25 AM

Some AE stops the pickups, but not all (consistency, wut?). Circle of Oblivion and at least one of the pyromancer AOEs work. What's extra-silly is crowd control spells (like fear) not interrupting a pickup or a node tap sometimes.  Ohhhhh, I see.

That said, BG is probably the worst warfront out there. It's just a huge zergfest from start to end.. and if someone clueless picks up the shard, you're boned.

Hawkbit
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Reply #620 on: July 20, 2011, 12:36:44 PM

Just got an email from Trion saying my account has run out of gametime.  My first thought was "WTF?!?!  Someone's been playing my account."

Turns out they gave me a week free recently and never bothered to tell me...  That would have been nice to know.  

EDIT:
I contacted Trion's CS because I never got the initial email, just asking if I could get the 7days since I was never informed of it.  The CS rep has sent four replies so far, each of them avoiding the question directly.  When I finally sent a response "Can I have the time or not?"  she responds by sending this up to tier 3 support. 

T3 support for 7days?  Good fucking luck on this shit, Trion.  I think they hired WoW support.   swamp poop
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 01:02:57 PM by Hawkbit »
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #621 on: July 20, 2011, 01:16:43 PM

Got that email and had the same thought, I was worried I'd still been getting charged these last few months.

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Amaron
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Reply #622 on: July 20, 2011, 02:07:06 PM

I just got the same email and was freaking out a bit thinking maybe I got hacked or something.    They're going to have to work out the kinks on a 7 day system similar to WoW I guess.
Ashamanchill
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Reply #623 on: July 20, 2011, 02:34:47 PM

Hahahaha. A browse through my junk box reveals the same thing. A closure notice, but no notice of the free time commencing. Oh well.

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March
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Reply #624 on: July 23, 2011, 09:29:00 AM

Been said before, but Rogue leather armor visuals suck.  I'm wearing cloth in my wardrobe, and that sucks too... just a tad less than the raincoat or fleece they want me to wear for leather.

Threash edit: Should specify 1-49 armor and crafted items... I've seen one cool post-50 item.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 04:35:35 PM by March »
Threash
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Reply #625 on: July 23, 2011, 09:40:43 AM

Really? i think rogues get the best armor personally.

I am the .00000001428%
Draegan
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Reply #626 on: July 24, 2011, 01:11:37 PM

Rogue armor is terrible imo.  The T2 Raid armor looks bad too.
Nebu
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Reply #627 on: July 24, 2011, 04:39:35 PM

Rogue armor is terrible imo.  The T2 Raid armor looks bad too.

I'll bet that only 5-10% of the player pop ever even gets any T2 raid gear.  20 mans aren't for anything but the hardcore. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Amaron
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Posts: 2020


Reply #628 on: July 24, 2011, 08:50:46 PM

Have they added new armor in any of the updates?  I remember looking at screens of what was in at release and thinking it all looked absolutely horrible.  Of course it doesn't help that the avatar models are horrible.
Threash
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8729


Reply #629 on: July 24, 2011, 08:56:10 PM

Meh, i rolled a rogue alt just because their armor looks cool.

I am the .00000001428%
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