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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Topic: DAoC's graphic to turn in shabby EQ2 clone (with boobs) 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: DAoC's graphic to turn in shabby EQ2 clone (with boobs)  (Read 25057 times)
Numtini
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Reply #35 on: March 27, 2004, 07:08:52 AM

Quote
As to pissing off the parents?


Why does everyone assume that anyone who doesn't want gaming to be some kind of cheesecake is a parent trying to impose their will on a game they don't play.

Frankly, the avatars were one of the nicest parts about DAOC. And the difference in how seriously women were taken in the game was very very obvious.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
Bstaz
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Reply #36 on: March 27, 2004, 02:25:30 PM

Quote from: HRose

Obviously DAoC needs to specialize in large battles, scenery, armies and so on. Instead it will go with the emotes, facial expressions and other stupid features. Packed in a new expansion box with "The new frontier of grind" as a subtitle.



 I just figued they were looking at the morphing and other engine features for the RvR stuff.  Wouldn't it make sense to Morph from a non-damaged wall to a damaged wall over time as attackers damage it?  It would look pretty stupid to go from "perfect wall" to "10% damage wall" in a blink of an eye.
HRose
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Reply #37 on: March 27, 2004, 05:10:35 PM

Quote from: Bstaz
I just figued they were looking at the morphing and other engine features for the RvR stuff.  Wouldn't it make sense to Morph from a non-damaged wall to a damaged wall over time as attackers damage it?  It would look pretty stupid to go from "perfect wall" to "10% damage wall" in a blink of an eye.


There. You don't need morphing or 3.0 shaders to destroy a fucking wall.
Walls have collapsed since forever and without looking crappy.

Most of what DAoC needs is about raw graphic inspiration and talent, plus a way to channel all this in a fast engine that allows the game to run smoothly during sieges.

This new stupid engine DOESN'T provide inspiration nor talent. It provides just tech. Tech made to LAG MORE, without adding a single feature I would judge *useful* for the game.

-HRose / Abalieno
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Venkman
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Reply #38 on: March 27, 2004, 08:54:02 PM

Quote from: Numtini
Why does everyone assume that anyone who doesn't want gaming to be some kind of cheesecake is a parent trying to impose their will on a game they don't play.

Because someone said above they had an opinion "as a parent". I was talking to that type of impression.

I'm sorry that the target audience likes anatomically impossible women. When you've changed prime heterosexual male psychology, give me a shout.

Hrose, I still think you're mixing things up. It's not causing more lag to change the graphics engine. It's making the game more marketable.

The games coming out in '04 and '05 are going to beat the crap out of anything released before. SWG is going to look tired by the standards coming, regardless of how scalable the engine is. And this domination is partly driven by stylistic concerns.

Anyone can do realistic. Realistic requires more coding talent than art. The height of the bar isn't being raised here.

It's being raised by more dynamic graphics, more flashy bangys, more over-the-top character models. And wherever people go, others will be compelled to follow.

DAoC needs to keep up at least in the area of deep graphics. It's gonna make people upgrade, but that's worked for SOE. Twice.

Edit: formatting
HRose
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Reply #39 on: March 27, 2004, 11:35:28 PM

Quote from: Darniaq
The games coming out in '04 and '05 are going to beat the crap out of anything released before. SWG is going to look tired by the standards coming, regardless of how scalable the engine is. And this domination is partly driven by stylistic concerns.


I don't see this happening. WoW is the best looking game to date, imho, and it offers an OLD engine technologically wise. They choosed to have the performance high on their priority list. So everyone will be able to play the game easily. And I support this choice. I will play 100 times better a game with more soul and less empty tech than something that shows nice features on the box and moves like a slide-show.

Again, I knew Mythic was going to remodel the characters. I expected them to just tweak what they had now, with the same engine (and still I was worried). If they choose to change the engine I would expect it is toward something useful, like optimizations created for battles and so on. Instead I've read a list of features completely useless.

I still think that SWG doesn't look good at all. I really laughed at peoples sitting on the void, shuttles flying through ceilings and trees and pets allowed in small corridors with 2/3 of their bodies out of the ceiling. The environment was just a good texture for the terrain, two sets for the grass and a few trees, repeating ad infinitum. The characters had a lot of personalisation but they simply looked wrong, terribly wrong when in action.

I still like a lot more what DAoC has to offer now than what SWG does, graphically (and I know *a lot* more players that didn't play the game due to hardware requirements than players that are sticking to it due to graphic beauty). Then again, this is about human graphic talent. When I hear about technical changes I would expect something in an useful direction, instead I've read a list of features that don't add anything to the game aside, probably, even more lag.

Also, I bet it's a huge work to convert years of art. Wanna bet that they will make things all look the same because they won't have the time to reconvert everything?

Perhaps I'll be wrong and they will be able to have more variation, along with a good performance and a boost in the graphic inspiration, but I'm not going to have confidence in this. They could still remade the whole think with models with thousands more polygons but looking even worst than now, killing both the performance and the graphic quality.

Also, if you think the biggest menace to DAoC is the graphic of their models, I'll really have to laugh.
Anyway, I'm all for a continued development. I loved DAoC mostly because it's the fastest growing game world on the market. They did a wonderful work with it. But I see the ambition dying and the game trying more to keep its condition than evolving. It feels like someone starting to show its age and not willingly to move so much anymore. Better defend than to attack.

-HRose / Abalieno
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Venkman
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Reply #40 on: March 28, 2004, 01:02:47 AM

Quote from: Hrose
I don't see this happening. WoW is the best looking game to date, imho, and it offers an OLD engine technologically wise

I've seen it in action (not just screenies). Trust me, it's not old tech. They chose for it to look that way for stylistic considerations, but it's does some pretty funky stuff.

Quote from: Hrose
Instead I've read a list of features completely useless.

Have you been reading only what the engine seller is saying or how Mythic plans to use it.

You mention the effort again. UO and EQ both had a lot of work done to them. En-tranz's efforts with SB Asia will only be slightly less. EQ has had it done twice now. It's doable if it's worth it, and Mythic thinks it is.

I never said DAoC has a menace in its graphics. I said they were lookng to keep up with everyone else. That's voluntary. UO continuing to exist at all is proof that graphics are a "required" update.

I dunno man. I don't get the connection between what a company uses to advertise its engine, how a game will lose all of it's mature chastity to that engine and how this will hurt the players. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe DAoC toons will all become variants of the L2 Dark Elf chick. But right now it sounds like fear of change more than any actual analysis.
eldaec
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Reply #41 on: March 28, 2004, 09:16:22 AM

There's nothing in the press release that specifically says Mythic are going to actively favour boobies over framerate, or that the engine can't be tweaked to give benefits in one direction or the other.

But unfortunately, the history of both the SI and ToA engines was (from most players point of view) Mythic favouring too much of teh shiny over speed.  

As others have said - any change to better engines needs to focus on  large scale rvr framerate above anything else.

Quote
I just figued they were looking at the morphing and other engine features for the RvR stuff. Wouldn't it make sense to Morph from a non-damaged wall to a damaged wall over time as attackers damage it? It would look pretty stupid to go from "perfect wall" to "10% damage wall" in a blink of an eye.


And that's fine - so long as they can do whatever they want to do at 25 frames per second with 100 players in view, and without me having to turn down functions that directly impact game play, like clip range or spell effects. If they can do that, then I'll be happy with any amount of plastic skin and basketball sized boobies.

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Reply #42 on: March 28, 2004, 11:09:20 AM

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UO continuing to exist at all is proof that graphics are a "required" update.


Uh, no.  You'd be suprised on how many players use and still enjoy the 2D client.  On Im Por Yelm, for example, the majority of players still use the 2D version.

Now rather than argue why UO lost players or how it retains current players and the nature of graphics therein, let me just move onto the greater arguement - that being graphics are a very minor portion of the overall project.

Examples in favor of this idea are the relative popularity of Meridian 59, AC and EQ in comparison to the much more shiney AC2.  Really, graphics don't matter in comparison to gameplay and plain old resistance to change.

If your players have grown use to a certain format (UO 2d or the near cartoony DAOC), I don't see why you would feel the need to overhaul your engine with something that could easily create more problems (lag, implementation bugs/crashes) than benefits.
Venkman
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Reply #43 on: March 28, 2004, 11:48:56 AM

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Uh, no. You'd be suprised on how many players use and still enjoy the 2D client

No, not surprised. That was my point :) Graphics do not need to be updated for the game to still be playable. I've hated every iteration of the *cough* 3D client of UO since I beta'd it. If I ever go back to UO again, I'll be playing 2D.

But to your second point, I disagree

Quote
If your players have grown use to a certain format

Graphics overhauls aren't just for the current players. In fact, I'd argue that fans of a game are inherantly conservative about massive changes to it like this. They are comfortable with how things are, and I doubt anyone would claim they left a game because they liked for months and months due to the graphics.

Nah. These sorts of things are to enhance the marketability of the game to new players.
HRose
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Reply #44 on: March 28, 2004, 11:56:28 AM

Quote from: Censorship
Uh, no.  You'd be suprised on how many players use and still enjoy the 2D client.  On Im Por Yelm, for example, the majority of players still use the 2D version.


Wait. Noone use the 3D engine simply because it's crap. UO is the perfect example of a world left dying. I've played in it for more than two years and it's the *less* evolving world. From every point of view. There are bugs in the 2D engine still there after YEARS of development. If UO is going to loose toward the competition it's not because it's old. It's because they let the game world die.

The last year (it was last year or two ago?) they rised the price with tons of promises about new updates and so on. Instead the updates simply stop for nearly a year. This only to publish a patch allowing character transfers behind a price. I consider this more like a fraud than a mmorpg service.

I really don't think UO should be taken as an example. The possibility to play it on lower end hardware is.

-HRose / Abalieno
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