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Title: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Sky on March 17, 2021, 09:30:27 AM
So I guess I'll start this year's thread now that Bill has spent his stimulus money. Bob Kraft is going to have to sell a lot of mac-n-cheese to cover the past couple days! I feel like this is Billy's 'hold my beer' love letter to Tampa's strategy last year...

(https://i.imgur.com/LYAZELu.png)



Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: HaemishM on March 17, 2021, 09:56:50 PM
Considering how no one on his team could catch the ball last season, I don't blame him. He's had good luck with 2 TE sets (even though one of his tight ends turned out to be a fucking idiot murderer). Cam may be washed up but it's hard to tell with such a shit set of dudes catching the ball. This is Bill realizing he made his name because of the greatest QB of all goddamn time, so now he has to scramble to build an actual fucking team.

I'm happy that Green Bay resigned Aaron Jones, because I was sure as shit they were just going to let him walk. Now they just have to make sure they give Aaron Rodgers EVERYTHING HE FUCKING ASKED FOR GODDAMNIT because if they drive him off, the team is fucked.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Sky on March 18, 2021, 09:55:02 AM
I don't give all the credit to Brady, but it was certainly a wake-up call that he has to be a bit more serious about his offense now. The last several years of Brady Pats suffered from pretty terrible targets. The TE party should've happened 3 years ago but clearly they were tapped out (and the strat worked, ring attained, so...).

I think Cam was kind of a victim of circumstances, late signing, inheriting the paucity of weapons that Brady had in those last lean years plus COVID (his worst performances were the few weeks after Cam came back from COVID. I think he's still got some solid years in him, though it remains to be seen if he can rise above B-class when given a better set of targets (and some protection).

I was pretty happy last season, considering the situation. It was fun having Cam energy on the team and many of their losses were right at the buzzer, so even a single high B-class TE could've eked out wins in some of those (nudging them into the wild card last year).

Ironically, some of Cam's best stuff was the first week or two when they were still using a lot of his playbook with more RPO style stuff. I was bummed they seemed to pull back on that and hope to see it featured much more, especially given the trick plays you can build around such a versatile setup.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Sir T on March 19, 2021, 09:13:46 AM
What the NFL got from the networks for the next 10 years of broadcast rights: $10 billion/year.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31088098/nfl-announces-tv-deals-espn-abc-nbc-cbs-fox-amazon


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Sky on March 19, 2021, 10:57:23 AM
I just wish they'd end EA's exclusive game rights.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: HaemishM on March 19, 2021, 01:07:29 PM
Being able to flex for Monday night games is something that was desperately needed. Mondays have been almost as much of a wasteland as Thursday games.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Cyrrex on March 19, 2021, 01:19:48 PM
Random thoughts:

As good a coach Bill B. is, I think the last year has proven pretty definitively that Brady was doing more than his share in that relationship than any of us truly believed..  Which I did not fully expect, but there it is.  I do not expect a dramatic turnaround from the Patriots.  In part, because....

Cam Newton was on in inexplicable decline well before he put on the Pats uniform.  That is not changing. 

And LOL Chicago Bears.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Sky on March 19, 2021, 01:52:54 PM
A depleted Pats vs a FA stacked Bucs?  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Trippy on March 19, 2021, 02:28:37 PM
Cam Newton was on in inexplicable decline well before he put on the Pats uniform.  That is not changing. 
The guy has had a lot of serious injuries. Itís not really a surprise heís nowhere close to his earlier MVP days.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: 01101010 on March 19, 2021, 04:50:26 PM
Random thoughts:

As good a coach Bill B. is, I think the last year has proven pretty definitively that Brady was doing more than his share in that relationship than any of us truly believed..  Which I did not fully expect, but there it is.  I do not expect a dramatic turnaround from the Patriots.  In part, because....

Cam Newton was on in inexplicable decline well before he put on the Pats uniform.  That is not changing. 

And LOL Chicago Bears.

I can understand that viewpoint - at face value it makes sense. But I can't agree with it due mainly to Sky's point. Brady had a team full of insanely good players on both sides of the ball - much like the year prior with Mahomes' Chiefs. It is way easier to win when you have that caliber of roster. Revisit this debate in 5 years and see what Billy B conjures up. Now that the Bills are relevant again, New England can't sleep thru that part of the schedule and the Dolphins seem to be waking up - so it is no longer a blow off division. But who knows, maybe the Pats fall into irrelevancy again for a few years and Brady goes and gets another silver football trophy.

For the first time since I can remember clearly, I am not wondering who will be coaching the Browns and I am not focusing on the draft. Feels very 1980s again. Hope Stefanski can keep things going. Higgins was a wise signing since he was always a dependable WR that seemed to show up when needed. Troy Hill will be much needed depth in the secondary since our first round CB picks seem to be made of glass. Also read today we singed LB Anthony Walker... which is great since the LB crew seems non-existent in Cleveland, though he is more run stopper than coverage.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: HaemishM on March 19, 2021, 05:13:53 PM
The more I watched Tampa Bay this year, the better their defense got. They basically shut down Aaron Rodgers twice. That Tampa team really was a lot more stacked than I think anyone recognized when Brady signed. I don't know if they'd have won the Super Bowl without him, but they'd certainly have been a contender.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: WayAbvPar on March 19, 2021, 07:24:22 PM
Defense wins in the playoffs. You have to have an offense that can score, sure, but only KC last year had what I would consider an elite offense (and their defense was pretty decent). Look at Seattle- they dominated with a Hall of Fame laden defense, and have steadily declined while the offense has gotten better.

Speaking of Seattle, can someone please rid me of this turbulent god-bothering QB already? So fucking sick of his 'brand'.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: HaemishM on March 19, 2021, 07:25:06 PM
I'm sure there are a ton of teams willing to take Russell off your hands.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: WayAbvPar on March 19, 2021, 07:29:51 PM
If Pete wasn't 10000 years old they might just take a load of draft picks and retool, but I don't think he wants to build a team again at this stage of his career. I really wish they would do it though. Watching Wilson pratfall on another team would be a great deal of fun for me. He  has so many terrible bad habits baked in that I would be surprised if he was successful unless he found the exact right fit.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Sky on March 21, 2021, 10:04:11 AM
I'd take Wilson in NE, the old lady disagrees. In the 'we're going to have an old QB for a couple years' debate, our usual candidate is Fitz. Guy is just playing for fun at this point and can be a great mentor in the right system. We're also fine with Cam, because honestly NE would be playoff contenders with just about any vet QB (the pool is much smaller for vets who could win a playoff game though).

The bigger question with NE is: who's the next franchise QB? The rest of their QB bench is what we'll be watching.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: HaemishM on March 22, 2021, 07:06:33 PM
So Deshaun Watson may be a complete shitbag (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31113664/summary-lawsuits-deshaun-watson)? 13 sexual harrassment lawsuits that all sound horribly similar. If they are true (and that's a lot of suits to be falsified, IMO), fuck him and I hope he never plays football again.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Sir T on March 23, 2021, 09:03:58 PM
Well both sides are bieng represented by the Patented type Crazy Texas lawyer, so its gonna turn into a shitshow all round

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31115841/prominent-texas-attorneys-clash-cases-involving-houston-texans-qb-deshaun-watson


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Sky on March 24, 2021, 07:50:15 AM
Not to go to Politics here, but prostitution REALLY needs to be legalized. It would alleviate a lot of this kind of bullshit. Goddamned puritans and their muskets.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Sir T on March 24, 2021, 05:21:44 PM
Wouldn't have helped in this case. Seems the guy got his kicks from going to legit massage places and trying to get their hands touching his dick when they told him that wasn't part of the deal. If he wanted "Thai" massages there are plenty of those places to go, especially in his price range. It was the unwillingness and shock that he got his rocks off to.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Sky on March 25, 2021, 09:42:05 AM
It is true that people are the worst people.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: 01101010 on April 29, 2021, 06:05:57 PM
So I been in meetings literally all afternoon and I finally start poking around for late day draft trades and see that Rogers finally admitted what we already knew in that he wants out of GB. So that's a thing.. Really wish the 49ers trade went thru about it. That would have been interesting since that 3 comes at the expense of the next, what, 3 years worth of 1st rounders? Not sure what the 49ers are doing out there... trade the future for the 3rd pick and then flip it for an old, still great, but old QB? Makes everyone I know wonder if the 49ers were expecting the Jets to pick differently.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Abagadro on April 29, 2021, 06:43:57 PM
I'm just going to laugh and laugh when the Jets draft Wilson, the most Jets thing to ever Jet.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Sky on April 30, 2021, 08:30:18 AM
We were really pulling for the Pats to get Fields, and he almost slipped back far enough. We don't watch a ton of college, but the old lady is bringing me into new facets of the sport. Pretty cool, tbh, I'm happy she's finding something to get into, she's been pretty low on hobbies lately. Hell, last year was the first draft I watched.

Anyway, I think we got a decent prospect. A pocket passer with a draft chip on his shoulder works in NE.

Not happy about the Steelers getting Etienne. That's not good for anyone (other than Pittsburgh). Hopefully Big Ben lays a Big Turd that Etienne can't hurtle over  :grin:

Also hopeful for the Bears. They've had so many pieces in place and got Trubisky'd. Maybe a new talented QB will be the kick they need.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: 01101010 on April 30, 2021, 10:50:14 AM
We were really pulling for the Pats to get Fields, and he almost slipped back far enough. We don't watch a ton of college, but the old lady is bringing me into new facets of the sport. Pretty cool, tbh, I'm happy she's finding something to get into, she's been pretty low on hobbies lately. Hell, last year was the first draft I watched.

Anyway, I think we got a decent prospect. A pocket passer with a draft chip on his shoulder works in NE.

Not happy about the Steelers getting Etienne. That's not good for anyone (other than Pittsburgh). Hopefully Big Ben lays a Big Turd that Etienne can't hurtle over  :grin:

Also hopeful for the Bears. They've had so many pieces in place and got Trubisky'd. Maybe a new talented QB will be the kick they need.

I think the Pats are better off with Jones. The guy is basically Brady-lite, not a runner, really accurate, goes thru progressions quickly. Saban > Belichick will probably need much of a transition. Good on them.

Steelers picked up Harris, not Etienne. Jags got Etienne a pick later to keep the Clemson backfield band together I guess.

Loved watching Horn and Surtain come off the board right before Dallas picked. Hilarious. Dallas did well to pick up Parsons but I'm almost certain they were assuming they'd get 1 of the top corners.

Browns got another CB and I can't fault them since they seem to be made of paper right around the end of August. If they can all stay healthy, there are going to be a lot of coverage sacks by the Browns DL.

Best part of watching round one was the Bears on the clock and they cut to the empty living room of Fields, then over to Jones. Umm... wrong feed guys. You knew the pick was fields before the tracker moved to 'the pick is in' part. Even my wife was remarking about the empty living room.

Little surprised by the Bengals pick since Burrow might be a little squirrelly going into this season. Really thought they'd hit on Penei. Not sure wtf Denver is doing since Fields and Jones was sitting there and Lock is not looking like a starter. They must be trying to do a Manning and bring in Rogers after June 1. And the Packers, yet again, do nothing in round 1 to help the offense.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Sky on April 30, 2021, 11:57:16 AM
Oops, my bad. It was late. I congratulated the boss (a huge Steelers fan) on Etienne this morning, and she agreed....it was a late night for a lot of us, heh. Made even more humorous when basically everyone was talking about the draft this morning and our new hire, who already thought our city was obsessed with football (we had a champion streak for our high school back when I was there), came in on her day off and heard us.

Anyway, I'm hopeful for Jones. His arm seems a lot slower compared to Brady's short/mid rifle, but I haven't seen young Brady film in ages.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: HaemishM on April 30, 2021, 01:42:39 PM
This Rodgers news is just so goddamn stupid. I don't blame Rodgers one bit, personally. The Packers organization has spent at 50% of the seasons he's been there wasting his talent with a bunch of spare parts, some of the worst defenses in the league and a coach that couldn't adjust his waistband, much less a team. The last 3 years of McCarthy's reign was Rodgers running around trying not to get killed and hope somebody would get open. We finally get a coach who brings freshness to the offense, have a legit star at both wideout and running back, a potential top 5 TE, and what do they do? Draft his fucking replacement, probably two years too early, if not more and they don't even consult him about it. Rodgers clearly has AT LEAST two good years in him from now, more if he isn't having to run around on half of the plays until somebody gets open. We sign a few defensive free agents and kudos for doing that as they were all solid starters (and Zadarius is a star) but this offseason has been doing nothing but keeping together the parts of the team that were 1 game away from the Super Bowl. That's not good enough, unfortunately, and Rodgers is well within his rights to be absolutely fed up with them slow walking their way into a championship. Trade up and get one of those great wideouts everyone was talking about in the first round, or get Elijah Moore who was available when they drafted. I don't disagree that we need another young shutdown corner to go with Alexander, but goddamn - we need someone to catch the ball and take the heat off Davante Adams more.

Just please do not let Rodgers go to the fucking Raiders (which is one of the 3 that have been touted as possible destinations). I don't have a problem rooting for the Broncos again like I did when Manning got there but fuck if I'm going to root for a Gruden Raiders team. Fuck that little grunting twat. San Francisco clearly didn't think they were going to get Rodgers (and I don't want Jimmy G in Green Bay), so went with Trey Lance instead. The Broncos not drafting a QB when they did tells me they think they are going to get Rodgers.

The worst part about the whole thing is that it was ALL avoidable. Sure, Rodgers had lots of problems with the brain trust before LeFleur came in and they drafted Jordan Love, and they were legit problems. But they were solvable. Everything they've done publicly from the moment they drafted Love has all been just one stupid blunder after another, all of it basically telling Rodgers "thanks for your service, but we're going in a different direction." It's the exact same stupid way they treated Favre and they are super lucky that Rodgers was as good as he was, because if he'd been a bust, it would have been a long time without any titles. Nothing I've heard about Love leads me to believe he's the heir apparent and if he's not, Green Bay is going to be in for a long winter of our discontent.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Sky on April 30, 2021, 01:49:06 PM
We are no joke hoping he retires to host Jeopardy. But yeah, he's been done dirty for a long goddamned time, and last season was basically a giant middle finger (ala Fitz in Miami when he was 'supposed' to tank the season) to the Packer administration/coaching staff. 100% would not want to see him in silver and black.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: HaemishM on May 01, 2021, 01:18:36 AM
And the Packers finally take a receiver in round 3, who appears to be a possession/Randall Cobb style receiver for the slot. So maybe that's good news? Just not sure they should have waited this long.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Draegan on May 03, 2021, 10:04:12 AM
Rodgers is a whiny bitch.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Cyrrex on May 03, 2021, 12:18:01 PM
Rodgers is a whiny bitch.

I am forced to agree.  No QB is so good that you shouldn't think about his replacement, doubly so at his age.  And this whole argument that they never surround him with talent is actually mostly untrue.  Not enough pass protection, okay...but you can say that about most NFL QBs.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Trippy on May 03, 2021, 12:32:16 PM
Itís one thing to plan on a replacement. Itís another to draft a replacement and supposedly plan for a trade and not tell your HoF-bound QB of those plans.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Rasix on May 03, 2021, 12:49:53 PM
Cardinals drafted the fucking shoe tosser. Traded up to get him as well.

 :roflcopter:


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Cyrrex on May 03, 2021, 01:08:49 PM
Itís one thing to plan on a replacement. Itís another to draft a replacement and supposedly plan for a trade and not tell your HoF-bound QB of those plans.


It's a story we have heard dozens of times.  Rodgers is not so special that he is immune to it.  And "plan for a trade" is a strong statement, is that even verified?  And if so, that also happens to just about every one of them.



Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Hoax on May 03, 2021, 09:41:11 PM
Itís one thing to plan on a replacement. Itís another to draft a replacement and supposedly plan for a trade and not tell your HoF-bound QB of those plans.


It's a story we have heard dozens of times.  Rodgers is not so special that he is immune to it.  And "plan for a trade" is a strong statement, is that even verified?  And if so, that also happens to just about every one of them.

name some?


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: HaemishM on May 03, 2021, 10:28:02 PM
Itís one thing to plan on a replacement. Itís another to draft a replacement and supposedly plan for a trade and not tell your HoF-bound QB of those plans.


It's a story we have heard dozens of times.  Rodgers is not so special that he is immune to it.  And "plan for a trade" is a strong statement, is that even verified?  And if so, that also happens to just about every one of them.



I'm with Rodgers on this one. Of course, one should expect your replacement to get drafted SOMEDAY. That day should not be when you are signed for 4 more years, only have 2 more years of guaranteed money on your contract, and oh by the way, you just led your team to within 1 game of the Super Bowl despite having only 2 legit stars on offense and a defense that had to IMPROVE to get to 21st ranked in the league. And that was after he essentially carried the team on the back of at least 3 years of McCarthy lazily "coaching" them to miss the playoffs. And even if you decide, yep, we are going to draft a 1st rounder to replace him, the absolute goddamn LEAST you can do is talk to the guy before you do it. As it was, he has to answer the questions "why did your team draft your replacement" and the best you can come up with is "Fucked if I know, they didn't tell me shit."

I'm not one to encourage prima donna behavior. There are, however, some dudes you roll out the red carpet for, ESPECIALLY if it's Green Bay. Because without Rodgers (and Favre before him), ain't nobody going to want to come to Green Bay to play football. It's the absolute ass end of nowhere. It has less to do than Buffalo. At least if it was Milwaukee, you could tempt players with the idea of being in a metropolis, small as it is. Fucking Green Bay? It HAS NOTHING but football. And if you are African-American, you will stick out like a sore thumb. The chance to play with and possibly win a Super Bowl (or at the very least contend) with a first ballot Hall of Famer and perennial MVP candidate is a draw. I have been a Packers fan since the shitty old days of the '80's. I've seen how bad that team can get without a legit star.

And it isn't like Rodgers hasn't already seen how shitty Green Bay treats its future HOF QB's, because this is a pattern that they are repeating from when Favre left. It's creating an acrimonious situation where there doesn't need to be one. At least with Favre, the Pack had the excuse of "well, he keeps waffling on whether he wants to retire." Rodgers has made absolutely no public statements or even hints that he wanted to do anything other than retire as a one-team Packer legend. With as many times as he's been hurt because his goddamn line was terrible or his coach didn't want to give him protection, and as many MVP's as he's won there, in addition to the Super Bowl and NFC Championships, I think he deserves the right to do that for as long as possible. Rodgers isn't Peyton Manning. His body isn't breaking down. Worst case scenario is he still has 2 more years of top-level play in him, with a slow Brady-like decline. I think he could probably play until he's 40. As a Packers fan, I'm disgusted with the lack of communication they've had with him and with how they've wasted some of the best years of his career.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Cyrrex on May 04, 2021, 12:43:57 AM
Itís one thing to plan on a replacement. Itís another to draft a replacement and supposedly plan for a trade and not tell your HoF-bound QB of those plans.


It's a story we have heard dozens of times.  Rodgers is not so special that he is immune to it.  And "plan for a trade" is a strong statement, is that even verified?  And if so, that also happens to just about every one of them.

name some?

The actual details and methods are specific to the individual cases, but....Joe Montana.  Peyton Manning.  Kurt Warner.  Brett Favre probably made his own mess, but the fact is that his team - like all teams do - was already trying to groom his replacement (let's consider the irony for a moment).  Russell Wilson has been shopped around this year.  It is a pretty normal thing for NFL teams to draft/trade for the future, they would be stupid not to.  The idea that they should have to clear everything with the team's biggest ego is a bit silly.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Trippy on May 04, 2021, 12:53:32 AM
Yeah, no.

Montana and Young were teammates that competed for the starting position for a number of years. Eventually Montana's injuries forced him long-term to the bench and Young won an MVP and that was it for Montana (on the Niners). Peyton was coming off of neck surgery and the Colts didn't think he could play (well) again. Turns out they were right and he couldn't but he still somehow managed to win a Super Bowl as a Broncos. They hadn't drafted Luck at that point when they cut Peyton, either. Warner was injured and literally couldn't grip the football at that time he was traded.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: HaemishM on May 04, 2021, 10:15:53 PM
Had Andrew Luck not been the prospect he was, the Colts probably wouldn't have gotten rid of Manning when they did. After all, his performances hadn't really dropped and even when he went to the Broncos, it wasn't until midway through his last season that his arm just disintegrated. Favre did flirt over and over again with retirement but even when they drafted Rodgers, they didn't consult with Favre and look how that turned out. A HOF QB and team legend spent years estranged all because they couldn't be assed to communicate some pretty basic, understandable shit.

Nobody is saying that they have to ask Rodgers to APPROVE of the drafting of his replacement. It's a business and everyone who plays it understands that part of the equation. It is, however, common goddamn courtesy to at least treat players with respect rather than just as interchangeable parts. How much good do you think it does Jordan Love to sit on the bench behind a guy who has enough of a grudge that he won't bother to mentor the young kid? That's exactly what happened to Rodgers, because Favre was treated the same way and acted very similar. I don't think it's too much to ask that your employer gives a little deference and respect to the feelings of long-serving employees, especially ones whose bodies get destroyed in the process of serving the company.

Or they could just be dicks, not tell him a word, and watch as the whole thing blows up in their faces. Because NOW they have a team legend who wants nothing to do with the team, and whose trade value has dropped because other teams know that if you take the step of even having the discussion about trading him, you HAVE to take what's given because you've now blown your leverage. It's not just bad communication, it's bad business.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Cyrrex on May 05, 2021, 02:45:21 AM
Yeah, no.

Montana and Young were teammates that competed for the starting position for a number of years. Eventually Montana's injuries forced him long-term to the bench and Young won an MVP and that was it for Montana (on the Niners). Peyton was coming off of neck surgery and the Colts didn't think he could play (well) again. Turns out they were right and he couldn't but he still somehow managed to win a Super Bowl as a Broncos. They hadn't drafted Luck at that point when they cut Peyton, either. Warner was injured and literally couldn't grip the football at that time he was traded.


Um, Peyton Manning had 3 extremely good years with Denver, including one of the most amazing years ever by a QB.  But regardless, the point is that all those teams did what they thought was the smart thing, probably didn't have the blessing of their HOF QB, and the QB in question was not being a whiny primadonna about it.  That said, I don't know how much of this is Rodgers actually being whiny and how much is the media just trying to squeeze juice from the lemon.

He is 37.  Two years ago everyone was asking what was wrong with him, and fair enough, he proved those people wrong.  But finding his replacement is the smart thing to do, because history shows us he is nearing the end of his rope.  Having himself been the guy (fair or no) to help move another aging legend out of town, you'd think he would be able to see both sides of it.

Edit:  if the main argument here is simply that they should have told him?  Em, I guess so?  Would that have really changed anything?  Rodger is great, and has the ego to go with it.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Trippy on May 05, 2021, 10:23:33 AM
The point is is when you have a franchise QB at the helm (doesnít even have to be HOF-bound) who is still playing well and isnít in some sort of weird contract state you donít draft a QB first round. The only exception Iíve been able to find through semi-recent memory is in fact Aaron Rodgers himself while Brett Favre was still playing. But the Packers werenít doing all that well at the time and yet still Rogers just sat on the bench while the Packers patiently waited for Favre to retire.

Edit: here's the list of QBs drafted first round by team so you can more easily see what I mean:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/03/28/first-round-quarterbacks-by-team-in-the-super-bowl-era/


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: WayAbvPar on May 05, 2021, 10:44:36 AM
If Rodgers wants to run the team, he is free to apply for the GM job and forgo the tens of millions of dollars he gets for playing QB. Ditto for RW3 and the rest.  A large part of the problem is the NFL's insistence that it be the focal of the sports world 24/7 365. Manufactured drama is so goddamned tiresome.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Cyrrex on May 05, 2021, 10:56:36 AM
If Rodgers wants to run the team, he is free to apply for the GM job and forgo the tens of millions of dollars he gets for playing QB. Ditto for RW3 and the rest.  A large part of the problem is the NFL's insistence that it be the focal of the sports world 24/7 365. Manufactured drama is so goddamned tiresome.

Yeah, this.  Add to it the outsized influence of the QB in this insane era of offensive bias.  Did anyone ask WR1 about the first round WR the team drafted?  Of course not.

And Trippy, Rodgers is 37.  It is definitely the time to draft a first round QB.  As to whether or not the team owes the QB an explanation, I will just agree to disagree.  Based on my above comment.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Sky on May 05, 2021, 11:34:31 AM
Did anyone ask WR1 about the first round WR the team drafted?  Of course not.
:oh_i_see:

When I was in music school, we had an improv class. Local singers would come in, drop a chart on everyone's stands, and we'd have to back them up. I was mostly playing bass at the time, we had 3 or 4 bassists in the class. But only one bassist could play at a time. The one who could play the most styles the most proficiently would get more reps and become the main bassist in the group for the semester.

There were about 20 guitarists in the class. It was common for 5+ guitarists to try to squeeze in to each song. I honestly don't know how they sorted the stuff out over on their side.

Point is, you can't compare a solo position with a group position. A great QB will replace you, a great WR will challenge you (but you can still play well and stay on the field, even if you get bumped to WR2 or slot or w/e). I mean, it's not like Aaron can go return punts if he declines. His only other option is riding the pine or getting out of town.

Also, stop pretending the QB position isn't the single most important player position in football. It's a silly contrarian trope.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Cyrrex on May 05, 2021, 11:53:59 AM
Of course it is the most important position, and these days it is way over the top.  So sure, let them in the front office as well, I am sure that will turn out great for everyone.  I am a fan of RW3 the football player, but FUCK HIM for thinking he should start making management decisions.

RODGERS IS 37.  IT IS WELL PAST TIME TO FIND AND GROOM HIS REPLACEMENT.  Your analogy makes no sense.  If Aaron is no longer the best QB on the team, he should not be the QB1, plain and simple.  His best defense against that is to go out and play great like he usually does and let Jordan Love rot on the bench.  Other great players across many sports have done exactly that. 



Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: 01101010 on May 05, 2021, 05:39:11 PM
Only caveat to all the Rogers/Love drama is when you draft a QB that high (and traded up to get him for whatever reason), that impacts your cap for at least 4 years without actually improving your team on the field. Hell, Love was 3rd string last year....

You pick a WR or TE there and it can (not always) have immediate impacts the following season - and with GB competing every year, why? Anything would have been better in that first round on offense than a QB. Sure, Rogers is 37 (36 at the time) and no one knew he was going to be voted league MVP this season. But he has not been dog shit enough to trade up for his replacement. So if Rogers continues for the duration of his contract, and continues ballin' out, what the hell do you do with Love? He sits, getting no meaningful reps with the first team and his rookie contract expiring. They pick up his 5th year option and hope Rogers falls off the cliff enough to replace him? Then what if Love is terribad in those replacement games and they don't franchise tag him. That then becomes a wasted first round draft pick that could have had way more value if they would have grabbed Higgins or any WR for that matter. Same thing happened with Favre not so long ago. Maybe that was a factor, but when your front office does the same stupid shit? Well, that might mean the front office is the problem and not the QBs.

Rogers is wasting away in GB while the front office puts little help around him. They should make some effort and take OBJ off the Browns' hands because right now you got Adams. Lazard is too streaky to be reliable and Valdes-Scantling is not much better.

And I say this as someone who is not at all a Rogers fan... but he is getting the shaft and chirping about it. But god forbid a football player chirps about his situation...


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Draegan on May 05, 2021, 06:31:55 PM
Wasting away? Lol fucking bullshit. They win a lot of games there.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: 01101010 on May 05, 2021, 07:35:57 PM
Wasting away? Lol fucking bullshit. They win a lot of games there.

And yet only have 1 superbowl in the Rogers era - and I don't think it is because of Rogers.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: HaemishM on May 05, 2021, 09:31:31 PM
Nobody is saying that the Packers can't draft Love, or that Rodgers needs to run the fucking team. That's reductionist and stupid. But he is a valuable employee, perhaps one of the most valuable. He's marketable (he's definitely selling jerseys and enhancing the brand from a merchandising standpoint with his endorsements). He's not getting into trouble with the law. Even when the team was bad, it was as much because they couldn't protect him or get open for him because their coach was a barely sentient pile of mashed potatoes. The very least you do in that situation is talk to him like a goddamn professional and say "Look, you're getting up in years and the team needs to protect itself in case your form falls off the cliff. We're going to draft a guy who may be a replacement if he works out. If he can't beat you in an honest competition, we move on."

Rodgers knows how this works, after all, he WAS that guy. From all accounts I've heard, he hasn't treated Love like Favre treated him. He's actually been helpful to the kid. Just from a corporate communications standpoint, letting Rodgers have a heads up means that when the questions inevitably come to him, he's prepared for it rather than saying "I don't know, man, I just work here, they don't tell me anything." The last thing you want to do is have your star player have to answer uncomfortable questions about his fucking job. It's a distraction that is completely avoidable and completely unnecessary, and could have literally been handled with a goddamn phone call. It's simply more galling because of how little the team has valued the WR position (or for that matter the TE position). Rodgers has been throwing to street free agents and projects for a decade. Even Adams during his first 2 1/2 seasons was a brickhanded replacement level player with some flashes. I'm not saying these guys can't develop into something, especially being thrown to by a HOF QB, but it hasn't happened so far. They could probably have picked Love in the second round last season and gotten Justin Jefferson in the first round - that guy is really good. It might not have gotten them to the Super Bowl, but it certainly would have been more helpful than Jordan Love, who was never active for one game the entire year.

God forbid Jordan Love is handed the starting role this year and sucks. As a black QB in one of the whitest cities in the country, he's going to hear no end of horrible shit if he isn't the second coming of Rodgers and Favre.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: WayAbvPar on May 06, 2021, 06:04:25 PM
The Packers have completely fucked this whole situation up. They were probably right to draft Love, especially given how Rodgers behaved in the playoffs the previous season (he basically decided they weren't going to win in the 2nd quarter and quit trying). They were probably right to let Love sit this past season and learn behind Rodgers. Where they went off the rails is having no plan to get rid of Rodgers after this season. The guy just won the MVP. They could have gotten SO MUCH back for him, but instead sat on their hands and hoped it would all go away, and have now squandered any chance of a decent return for him. If they had a plan about how to placate him once they decided they didn't want to move on, it absolutely didn't work.

I will not be surprised if Rodgers tells them to go fuck themselves and sits out a year. I would also not be surprised if the market for him at nearly 40 and after a year away is a lot softer than he thinks it should be if he does that. Both sides have massively fucked this up, and seem intent on taking each other down. They fucking deserve each other.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: 01101010 on May 06, 2021, 06:13:58 PM
The Packers have completely fucked this whole situation up. They were probably right to draft Love, especially given how Rodgers behaved in the playoffs the previous season (he basically decided they weren't going to win in the 2nd quarter and quit trying). They were probably right to let Love sit this past season and learn behind Rodgers. Where they went off the rails is having no plan to get rid of Rodgers after this season. The guy just won the MVP. They could have gotten SO MUCH back for him, but instead sat on their hands and hoped it would all go away, and have now squandered any chance of a decent return for him. If they had a plan about how to placate him once they decided they didn't want to move on, it absolutely didn't work.

I will not be surprised if Rodgers tells them to go fuck themselves and sits out a year. I would also not be surprised if the market for him at nearly 40 and after a year away is a lot softer than he thinks it should be if he does that. Both sides have massively fucked this up, and seem intent on taking each other down. They fucking deserve each other.


Well said.  :drill:


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Sky on May 06, 2021, 06:16:05 PM
I would also not be surprised if the market for him at nearly 40 and after a year away is a lot softer than he thinks it should be if he does that.
I would phrase this in the form of a question.

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Trippy on May 06, 2021, 06:25:18 PM
Given the contracts journeyman QBs have gotten after one good season recently I think you underestimate how much teams are willing to pay for anybody who looks like he can throw a ball without tripping over his own feet.

Edit: singular



Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: HaemishM on May 06, 2021, 10:45:46 PM
Rodgers could sit a year and he'd still have teams knocking down his door. Remember, Manning could have played almost anywhere when he came back, and that was after a year where they weren't sure his head wasn't going to literally fall off his neck. Brady had the same sort of market, and he's 5 years older. It's not like we're talking about Trubisky or Blaine Gabbert. You put Rodgers on any team in the NFL and he instantly makes them contenders or keeps them contenders if they already have a top level QB. The Packers really have royally fucked this up, either by not having a plan or having a plan and just not letting their HOF QB in on the plan. Again, I think if you talk to him like he's important (since he is) and let him know "This is business and here's what we want to do," then at the very least you can work it out behind closed doors. That way, you keep his trade value high and you avoid making everybody look bad. You can say it's Rodgers hurt ego, but come on - if you are him, how could you not have the ego?

QB's who have won the Super Bowl and made the playoffs in almost every season they've played are platinum. Russell Wilson, Brady, Matt Ryan, Mahomes, Rodgers - any team that doesn't have a QB of that caliber would give up multiple first rounders to get that guy if they could work it out.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Draegan on May 07, 2021, 09:52:57 AM
Wasting away? Lol fucking bullshit. They win a lot of games there.

And yet only have 1 superbowl in the Rogers era - and I don't think it is because of Rogers.

Russel Wilson
Drew Brees
Brett Favre
Steve Young

Dan Marino
Warren Moon
Kurt Warner

Just some QBs who never won or just won one SB.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Cyrrex on May 07, 2021, 12:16:00 PM
Green Bay has been one of the most successful teams in the past couple of decades in winning their division, making the post season, etc.  Rodgers has had more chances than most.  I am not saying it is his failure that they 'only' have one SB during his time, but it is not accurate at all to say that the organization has not put together good teams.  They been doing it since way before he came around.

This is all a lot of hearsay anyway.  I don't think anyone knows for sure what is in his head.


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: 01101010 on May 07, 2021, 12:46:05 PM
Green Bay has been one of the most successful teams in the past couple of decades in winning their division, making the post season, etc.  Rodgers has had more chances than most.  I am not saying it is his failure that they 'only' have one SB during his time, but it is not accurate at all to say that the organization has not put together good teams.  They been doing it since way before he came around.

This is all a lot of hearsay anyway.  I don't think anyone knows for sure what is in his head.

Part of me says yes, but the other part of me says 'look at the trash in that division, of course GB was going to be a playoff perennial.' Just swap Mayfield for Rogers straight up and watch the world burn down.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition
Post by: Cyrrex on May 07, 2021, 12:56:22 PM
Green Bay has been one of the most successful teams in the past couple of decades in winning their division, making the post season, etc.  Rodgers has had more chances than most.  I am not saying it is his failure that they 'only' have one SB during his time, but it is not accurate at all to say that the organization has not put together good teams.  They been doing it since way before he came around.

This is all a lot of hearsay anyway.  I don't think anyone knows for sure what is in his head.

Part of me says yes, but the other part of me says 'look at the trash in that division, of course GB was going to be a playoff perennial.' Just swap Mayfield for Rogers straight up and watch the world burn down.  :why_so_serious:

You can kinda of say that about any division at any given time.  And that is kinda the point, the QB itself is the often the difference, and that does not support the myth that a team fails to surround the QB with talent.  Literally all teams fail to surround the QB with the perfect talent, and much of the reason for that is that the QB sucks out fucking half of the cap money.  Want more talent?  Give up half your 20 million a year.