EW's Top 25 Sci-Fi of the last 25 years

[Venkman]

From the last 25 years:

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20036782_20037403_20037541,00.html

List and my thoughts ;) Tough to know where to put this. Den if this is the wrong place, but it seemed topical.

25. V (good series for its day)
24. GalaxyQuest (yawn with some good parts imho)
23. Doctor Who (never saw the original, new one seems fun)
22. Quantum Leap (formulaec with some good parts)
21. Futurama (I don't much care for the Simpsons either)
20. Star Wars Clone Wars animated series (seriously, this rocks, and I say that unbiasedly. If the latter movies were 1/10th as good, we'd not worry for the new generation of SW fans)
19. Starship Troopers movie (could this have sucked any worse... regardless of how good the book was?)
18. Heroes (yes. I don't care how new the series is, they've just nailed this one bigtime)
17. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (never saw. No idea this had any sci-fi relevance)
16. Total Recall (formulaec 80s-like movie but fun nonetheless. No way this is better than Heroes though)
15. Firefly/Serenity (no... words... to... describe... love... or the disappointment that was Joss working with a big network instead of someone with more freedoms and lower measures)
14. Children of Men (still need to see. Tops my task list)
13. Terminator/Terminator 2 (definitely. Better than Heroes though?)
12. Back to the Future (heck yea! 80s-like but damned fun)
11. Lost (never got into, but people dig it)
10. Thing (barely remember it)
9. Aliens (the second one, the "James Cameron is the man" awesome one. Love)
8. Star Trek: TNG series (just prior to Best of Both Worlds on through to the end. Awesome. Sorta acceptably sucked prior)
7. E.T. (from the lense of jaded adult hard to remember the original impact, but I think I loved this alot at the time).
6. Brazil (number 3 of my task list)
5. Star Trek II: Wrath of Kahn (holycraprobotjesussoaponropeyea!)
4. X-Files (makes sense. Mainstream sci-fi ftw)
3. Blade Runner (absolute)
2. Battlestar Galactica (the new one. Until just after the New Caprica rescue: hellyea! After: judgement's still out)
1. The Matrix (tough call as number one from the lens of the suck of the followups. But this was a big surprise at the time, and still holds up well.

Overall, it's hard to review 25 years of sci-fi when so much about media and society and myself as a person have changed. 25 years ago I was barely outta grammar school, drawing pictures of the ships I'd see in these movies/shows. Nowadays I can't be bothered with "Sci-Fi" unless it's got awesome writing and is actually trying to be something more than contemporary lifestyles and issues in a futuristic setting.

Oh, and I buy their justification for not including the good Star Wars trilogy, but I think they should have just extended it to 30 to include them :)

[Merusk]

There's some stuff that didn't make the list because it wasn't popular enough to last, but was better Sci-Fi. (John Doe)  I suppose that's acceptable to me.

Skipping B5, and putting Galaxy Quest on instead shows what type of 'fan' made the list, however, so it's just wrong.   :-D

Oh, and E.T. sucks.  I didn't enjoy it as a kid, I don't enjoy it now. It's on there for the same reason as Starship Troopers.  Popular, sure, but not good. (And I don't say that because I think the movie sucked. It's my guilty-pleasure movie.  I have a very large soft-spot for it, but wouldn't call one of the best 25 of the last 25 years.)

[Evil Elvis]

E.T. was fine, it was just a kids movie.  Shouldn't be on a top sci-fi list though.  You might as well put The Explorers up there.

Babalon5 was really only good for 3 seasons, and I hated every single tv movie.

Eternal Sunshine and Children of Men are kind of a stretch for this list.  Children just follows an alternate, dystopian timeline, and Eternal Sunshine just uses technology as a plot device.

X-Files at #4?  Really?

Where the fuck is Empire or GitS or even Robocop?

[Morat20]

I will say this just once: Galaxy Quest was 10 types of fucking awesome from front to back. Like the original Scream, it managed to both parody AND be a well-done example of a genre at the same time.

That's not fucking easy. Hell, 90% of any movies in any genre suck, and 90% of parodies suck. So having it be a good sci-fi film and a good sci-fi film parody at the same time was just six kinds of awesome.

All it missed was Wil Wheaton in the audience screaming at the grown-up child actor "GET OFF THE STAGE! KIDS DON'T BELONG ON STARSHIPS!" and it would have been six kinds of pure-minted gold.

It's not my favorite movie of all time, but it's damn good. As for the rest -- the hard part in making this lists is determining what you mean by "Top". Best? That's going to change -- shit that was awesome and groundbreaking 25 years ago is hackneyed and formulaic now (because everyone copied it). Some stuff wasn't all that great, but inspired much better films later. And it all ebbs and flows over time.

If I was making a list of 'favorite Sci-Fi shows/movies over the last 25 years' it wouldn't look at all like that. If I was going for one of influential and groundbreaking films + some of my favs, it'd look a lot more like that list. If I was going for 'best', another list entirely,

Books are the same way. You know why Terry Brook's absolutely craptastic Shannara trilogy keeps hitting the "Fantasy Novels" list? Because Tolkein invented the genre, but Brook's badly-concealed knock-off kicked it into motion. We have good fantasy now because Brooks wrote mediocre knock-offs cribbed off of Tolkein then. 

B5 should be on that list -- not for the show, but for the fact that it made long and complex story-arcs a possibility. X-Files is only on that list for the first three seasons, and should be a hell of a lot lower. It shouldn't be on the list period if you admit the existance of seasons 4 through whatever. :)

[Johny Cee]

Blah.

Firefly/Serentiy?  huh?  It was alright,  had some potential.  Large amounts of poor execution, not to mention some pretty blatant cribbing from other series.

I like BSG.  But no way is it going to hold anywhere near that spot.  Give it 5 years,  and the holes and gaps in the plot really will start to erode the good will.

I've watched about 3 episodes of Heroes.  I'm sure it's a decent show, but...  after 1 year it makes it onto the list?

Total Recall and Starship Troopers are funny, farcical, and have a surprising amout of satire built in (Troopers changed the book to basically being a satire on militarism/fascism,  complete with Doogie Hauser showing up in jackboots, gray uniform, and long coat;  the brillance in Total Recall was the background junk.... it felt and looked like a place some time in the future, rather then slightly redressed generic 20th century).  Robocop does the same thing,  but better.

The Thing deserves the place.  It's the ONLY film or tv show that's come close to capturing the vibe of Lovecraft and the wierd/cosmic horror crowd.

There's a bunch of things on the list you pretty much have to put on there:  TNG, Dr. Who (carried the sci fi torch for almost 30 seasons counting old and new?  The old had cheesy effects, but I loved it.), Xfiles, etc.

Some of the list is just off in left field:  V?  I rewatched the original mini in college.  Not very good.  Eternal Sunshine and Company of Men?  Men had some buzz, but....  sorta going out on a limb with that.

Things that are missing?

Farscape and Babylon 5 aren't there,  which is big.  I'm not a huge Babylon 5 fan (thought it was pretty cheesy in parts), but it gets A+ in what it tried to do. 

Farscape just had more WTF moments then any other show.  This is also the show that Joss seemed to crib from (insane character fleeing from miliary superpower that might not be all bad, due to the knowledge they have?  Have to hang out doing odd jobs in the frontier area of space?)

TNG gets a nod,  no love for Stargate?  I'm not a big Stargate fan,  but they lasted 10 seasons.  That says something. 

[Merusk]

I don't deny the awesomeness of GQ.. I just don't think it was exceptional Sci-Fi in its own right s'all.  It was popular and well-known, however, so it got on there.  Ditto for ET.

I can't believe I missed Farscape not even being on there. Yeah, that's huge too.

[Krakrok]

That list is crap. It leans more towards a list of campy sci-fi than it does hardcore sci-fi.

[schild]

Ahem.

Battlestar Galactica, once again, isn't sci-fi - it's a political drama. Just because something is in space and they make a whole lot of shit up doesn't make it fucking sci-fi.

By putting that and The Matrix at the top of the list, you can tell this thing was written by a kid with braces.

Edit: I would have probably put Brazil at the top of the list. Maybe even Heroes actually. Also, I think at #25 I would have put Event Horizon, I feel compelled that it should BE on the list for some reason. Also, did I not see Jurassic Park?

[Merusk]

You did not see JP, which IS good Sci-Fi in the old school sense; a story that deals with issues via devices.  The issues & the moral struggle ARE the character, moreso than the bodies playing it out.

I don't remember Event Horizon well enough to see that it dealt with issues more than, "It's a bad idea to open a gateway to hell."

[NowhereMan]

Event Horizon really seemed closer to fantasy horror in a Sci-Fi setting. But then that's a pretty complicated genre...

Also I really would have put Dr. Who higher, but then every geek has their pet series.

[Venkman]

Where the fuck is Empire or GitS or even Robocop?

Empire wasn't there because, per their reasoning, it happened prior to 25 years ago (yea, we're that old). They paid homage to it in their credit for the CN series (which, again, does rock).

What is GitS?

Robocop, yea, I agree that should have been on there. I'd have replaced Starship Troopers with it.

And the reason I'm down on the Troopers movie is two fold: one, because of Robocop. If Paul could have maintained the gritty dark comedy of Robocop, and not made the rest of the movie look like a themepark, it coulda been awesome. All the pieces were there. It just looked too tame, particularly compared to the books. I understand required departure from novel of course, but there's LoTR departure and then there's Troopers departure.

I never got into Babylon 5 but do understand the fanbase. But this list seemed to largely be based on mass relevance.

It's like "I'll be back" or "you made a time machine, out of a DeLoreon?!" or bullet-time cinematography. Each of these seems to have inserted something into pop culture that even non-sci-fi fans could grab hold of. As good as other sci-fi like B5, Farscape, or Event Horizon* may have been to many, they didn't do anything for anyone except fans of sci-fi, at least maybe according to those who authored the list.

* I didn't like EH. It felt like what so often happens to generic-IP sci-fi: we can't sell it unless we also make you scare of it.

[schild]

GitS is Ghost in the Shell.

It's not very good sci-fi. It's pretty much just very shiny anime.

[Johny Cee]

I like the Matrix.  I even think it's good scifi.  The problem is the two sequals,  which degraded the revolutionary bits of the original.


The list is a mass popularity list,  leavened by a few of the individuals who came up with it's favorites.  If you composed a list based on the innovations?

Babylon 5 taught us that you could serialize a story,  and people would watch it.  You could do grand scale storytelling.

Farscape really broke a shit ton of the rules about what was allowed on TV.  They were the first (to my knowledge) to use fake words exactly like and in the same context as shit and fuck.  They threw bizarre costumes and muppets at you so you wouldn't pay attention to how far they pushed into moral gray areas.  To a large extent, this is the forerunner for character based sci fi we see now.

Jurassic Park is good scifi in the Asimov/Clark vein:  give an advanced technology that allows some incredible feat,  then run your characters along a careful plot track to make the viewer question "just because we can do something,  does that mean it's right to do?"

Both Event Horizon and Pitch Black were good thriller/horror movies,  but they're more scifi as setting and not scifi movies.

[schild]

Hey hey, if Battlestar Galactica and Galaxy Quest can be on the list, so can Event Horizon. Though I fully agree that it's horror.

Upon reflection, I feel like Taken should be on the list.



Squeeee.

[bhodi]

What, no Dark City?

[WindupAtheist]

Insert obligatory rant about how Episode 3 was certainly better than fucking V and should be on there somewhere.

That aside, I never understood all the love for the Clone Wars cartoons.  I mean, they're like three minutes long.  I tried watching some of them.  It was like...

And now, this week's Clone Wars...
*pew pew*
*whoosh*
"Hey Obi-Wan!"
*ka-blam*
Thanks for tuning in, be here next week!

What the fuck?  I went out of my way to sit down for this?

[schild]

Episode 3 was better than 5?

I wonder which Episode 3 I watched.

[Azazel]

I liked Ep3, but surely you mean better than Ep6 (Jedi)?

And I liked SST. One of the best 25? Maybe for me, since I don't really watch a lot of sci-fi, and i liked the OTT elements. Nothing like the book, of course though..

[Teleku]

Schild, would you mind explaining to me exactly what makes a movie Sci-fi, under your deffinition?

[schild]

The biggest thing sci-fi needs, for me at least, to be called Sci-Fi is that the main premise of anything a story or setting is doing is a possible alternate future the world could exist in. That's to say, Brazil may very well be the best sci-fi ever laid on film. Star Trek: TNG also had many neat ideas with things based on our current understanding of physics and space.

Also, the bulk of the story has to be wrapped up in that concept - that it is, a piece of science fiction. Hence the reason I don't label BSG as sci-fi. It's very much a political drama.

I mention BSG here only because I have to assume you're referring to my previous post.

Galaxy Quest, while hilarious, is parody. It's more like the alternate timeline of an alternate timeline in a sci-fi show if the god of whatever world that was happened to be a clown. Man, that's a rough sentence. Anyway, it's sciency alright. And fictional. But it's not sci-fi, it's pure parody, 100%.

Event Horizon is horror. I just felt the need to include it because of the other things that made that list that shouldn't have.

Taken, however, is a very nice state-of-the-union Aliens living Among us look at things. And more entertaining than ET in every way. Also, it happens to nail the alternate reality thing pretty damn well.

[Phildo]

Taken, however, is a very nice state-of-the-union Aliens living Among us look at things. And more entertaining than ET in every way. Also, it happens to nail the alternate reality thing pretty damn well.

Now I haven't seen Taken, but I'm going to assume it's a show about people being abducted by aliens.  At what point does it become about science and not the aliens?  Because aliens fall more under Fantasy than Sci-Fi in my mind.

[schild]

It's not about being abducted by aliens at all. You lived with me for 2 years and you've known me for 4 prior to that. The DVD has been sitting on my shelf since release. It's an amazing series.

You have no one to blame but yourself for not picking it up. I mean, you did sit through over 100 hours of Highlander.

Edit: Trying to explain Taken would absolutely spoil it btw.

[ahoythematey]

I'm pretty sure WUA meant the television series "V" and not Empire Strikes Back.  I'm inclined to agree with him, V was a silly soap opera wrapped in alien invasion clothing.

I'm not surprised that The 13th Floor didn't make the list, since almost nobody saw that movie, but I am surprised Dark City isn't on there.  Is it too much noir without enough science?  Regardless, it was plenty of awesome.

Also, I think Minority Report belongs in that list.

[schild]

That makes more sense. V was boring.

[Murgos]

Ghost in the Shell shares mostly the same plot as Neuromancer (which borrowed from Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep).  It certainly is good Sci-Fi.  Actually, it's iconic Sci-Fi, as in one of the best, most recognizable stories in Sci-Fi dom that asks a question that may become very pertinent sometime in the near future.

[Yegolev]

That list sucks.

I have a DVD of They Live on my coffee table right now.

[Murgos]

That list sucks.

I have a DVD of They Live on my coffee table right now.

I'm here to kick ass and chew bubble-gum.  I'm all out of bubble-gum.

[tazelbain]

That list sucks.

Lists suck.

[schild]

That list sucks.

Lists suck.

Grats on 2000 posts.

[Megrim]

There is no Fifth Element on that list, and Matrix is higher than Bladerunner. pshaw.

[Mazakiel]

I would have definitely put Robocop on the list as opposed to Total Recall.....but I loved the movie growing up, whereas Total Recall was a bit meh for me, even back then.  Either way, while I did enjoy Total Recall all the same, if it was on the list, it wouldn't be that high up.  But the priorities of where they put stuff on that list seems all weird. 

[Venkman]

There is no Fifth Element on that list, and Matrix is higher than Bladerunner. pshaw.

Yea, somebody somewhere else mentioned 12 Monkeys which made me think of Bruce Willis which then let to Fifth Element. I loved that movie, but given this list I can kinda understand it's absence. Aside from the tech being used in the movie, it was a fairly standard reluctant-hero plot with a lot of support roles to add comedy and definition of that time-period.

This is sorta the problem I have with sci-fi as it appears on TV and movies. It's generally a story that could be told without the whiz-bang technology, with a bunch of people who think and act exactly the same way they would in contemporary time.

True sci-fi to me involves a society that has been fundamentally changed in the future in much the same way the world today is full of people very affected by the tech that didn't exist thousands of years prior. Yes, it's debatable how far humanity has come even now, but nobody can deny the impact on public discourse and attitude (and methods of control) all this tech has had on us. And all this stuff is merely a generation or two old.

I don't know what qualifies for "high science fiction." Maybe there's a list? I only go by whether I feel the protagonists and plot of a story are intrinsically tied to something current humanity doesn't have, as a window into their differences. The Reality Dysfunction series from Peter K Hamilton is a good one for that in my opinion. Society then is very different. It starts to weaken when the Neutronium Alchemist books come in. And man what a cop-out with Naked God. But kudos for starting strong. A better one to me is Dan Simmons' series that begins with Endymion. I don't think it ever gets weak, and they cover just about everything one could cover in sci-fi.

Ultimately, this is why I don't consider Star Wars "sci fi" in that sense. Typical story told with lightsabers and droids. I hear I'm not alone there either ;)

[Strazos]

Um...Gattaca?

[SurfD]

Um...Gattaca?

2001, 2010, and / or Logan's Run?

[Merusk]

Um...Gattaca?

2001, 2010, and / or Logan's Run?

2001 & Logan's Run are more than 25 years old. 2010.. eh maybe. I was a little underwhelmed by it.

Darniaq's earlier explanation about "Sci-Fi  that contributed to Pop-Culture" works well, and explains some of the bigger omissions.  While they were definitely superior Sci-Fi they were "geek-only" and your huddled masses wouldn't get the references.