I9 is live

[Shrike]

The thing is with ED, once you put in 3 +3 SOs, you're slightly past the cap. Diminishing returns has already set in, it's just not too bad yet. A level 50 IO has about 42% enhancement on schedule A (I think). So, slotting in three of them puts you waaaaay into diminishing returns. So you either lose something like 50% of that third IOs value, or you slot something else, but remain somewhat below the ED cap.

What sets will get you is a new sort of percentage of enhancement distribution. Double IOs (like ACC/DAM, or DAM/END) will split the IOs value in half. Triples split into three parts (like a ACC/DAM/END which would be something like 18.5% in each at level 40 for schedule A). I"m not sure of the actual math involved in this, but it's slightly greater than the sum of a single value of a simple IO. This means you can fully slot with these things and pickup substantial gains in total improvement value. Of course, this varies among sets. You also have the bonuses from slotting up sets. They add a variety of additional stats that you can stack up to five times. This is a fairly big deal. It's also a way you can exceed the ED damage cap with %damage and chance of damage proc effects. This is seriously good stuff, but the total percentages of enhancement aren't really enough to hit the caps until the mid-30s. 40ish is better still (will exceed HO effectiveness), but the expense really takes off post-40.

The bottom line is IOs will improve your character slightly at around 25 and you don't have to replace them at all. Which means you can have SO effectiveness or better and save all your inf for set upgrades in the late 30s for bonus stacking. At 45 to 50, set IOs will potentially blow even HOs away in total enhancement value and that's not even taking the set bonuses into consideration. This takes some thought about what you want and how to mix different sets or mix sets and simple IOs. There are already some spreadsheets floating around the CoH forums to address IO character planning. They aren't strictly necessary, since some time spent in the CH eyeing the assorted recipes and enhancements can give you a pretty good handle on what they can do for you.

[eldaec]

What sets will get you is a new sort of percentage of enhancement distribution. Double IOs (like ACC/DAM, or DAM/END) will split the IOs value in half. Triples split into three parts (like a ACC/DAM/END which would be something like 18.5% in each at level 40 for schedule A). I"m not sure of the actual math involved in this, but it's slightly greater than the sum of a single value of a simple IO. This means you can fully slot with these things and pickup substantial gains in total improvement value. Of course, this varies among sets. You also have the bonuses from slotting up sets. They add a variety of additional stats that you can stack up to five times. This is a fairly big deal. It's also a way you can exceed the ED damage cap with %damage and chance of damage proc effects. This is seriously good stuff, but the total percentages of enhancement aren't really enough to hit the caps until the mid-30s. 40ish is better still (will exceed HO effectiveness), but the expense really takes off post-40.

The downside is that you can't slot two identical set-IOs into the same power. And most IO sets include irrelevant nonsense like endurance cost reduction in an attack power, or damage in a hold power. In most cases, chasing a set will prevent you hitting 90%+ on the key things you actually care about (this is less of a problem at level 50, but much more of an issue around level 30ish where most people here give up on characters anyway).

You can mix and match sets of course, then you lose the arbitary +5% run speed, +2% def, procs or whatever, but you get back the reliable maxed out accuracy, damage, and recharge that you are usually most interested in slotting for, and often you can free up a slot or two in the process.

Key thing is to remember is why you picked a power in the first place, you didn't pick fireball in order to get +2% cold def or+3% runspeed. So don't let anything distract you from getting near +100% damage, +50% acc, and as much recharge as possible.

[Glazius]

What sets will get you is a new sort of percentage of enhancement distribution. Double IOs (like ACC/DAM, or DAM/END) will split the IOs value in half. Triples split into three parts (like a ACC/DAM/END which would be something like 18.5% in each at level 40 for schedule A). I"m not sure of the actual math involved in this, but it's slightly greater than the sum of a single value of a simple IO. This means you can fully slot with these things and pickup substantial gains in total improvement value. Of course, this varies among sets. You also have the bonuses from slotting up sets. They add a variety of additional stats that you can stack up to five times. This is a fairly big deal. It's also a way you can exceed the ED damage cap with %damage and chance of damage proc effects. This is seriously good stuff, but the total percentages of enhancement aren't really enough to hit the caps until the mid-30s. 40ish is better still (will exceed HO effectiveness), but the expense really takes off post-40.

The downside is that you can't slot two identical set-IOs into the same power. And most IO sets include irrelevant nonsense like endurance cost reduction in an attack power, or damage in a hold power. In most cases, chasing a set will prevent you hitting 90%+ on the key things you actually care about (this is less of a problem at level 50, but much more of an issue around level 30ish where most people here give up on characters anyway).

You can mix and match sets of course, then you lose the arbitary +5% run speed, +2% def, procs or whatever, but you get back the reliable maxed out accuracy, damage, and recharge that you are usually most interested in slotting for, and often you can free up a slot or two in the process.

Key thing is to remember is why you picked a power in the first place, you didn't pick fireball in order to get +2% cold def or+3% runspeed. So don't let anything distract you from getting near +100% damage, +50% acc, and as much recharge as possible.

You don't even have to mix and match _sets_, necessarily. If you can get 5 elements of a 6-element set to get close and then cap it off with a vanilla IO, or possibly an HO, you may get very nearly what you want.

Developer comments from the beta seem to indicate that this whole piecework approach to maximization is a desired part of the process.

For now I'm only worrying about sets that don't need rare salvage.

For those interested the big jumps come after 25, and after 40. Salvage bands run from 4-25, 26-40, and 41-50, and every IO of those levels should use salvage from said bands (for a while some recipes which needed alchemical silver, a 26-40 magic salvage, were using silver, a 41-50 tech salvage). It's _generally_ a good rule that when a whole set is uncommon the most it will need is uncommon salvage, but Cleaving Blow for one uses some rares.

Certainly all rares (orange title) will use some rare salvage to complete.

--GF

[Shrike]

Most sets will have fairly heavy endurance reductions. I dismissed this, too, initially. However, the recharge in complete or near-complete sets is pretty substantial. Being an electric brute, I don't normally have endurance problems to speak of. However, with lightning reflexes and sets giving around 40% recharge and set bonuses giving around 7% recharge globally--that stacks--I began to feel the endurance pinch in longer fights or when running about willynilly attacking everything in sight (like brutes tend to do). At that point having sets returning 20-40% endrdx is pretty nice.

Also, the biggy was I was able to eliminate hasten from this build and not really feel the recharge crunch. Lightning rod still doesn't recharge quite as often as I want, but as was mentioned, I can ditch the lethal proc from the set and slap in a regular recharge IO and reap those benefits. Power surge will feel the lack of hasten a bit, but I don't use it that much and getting tough will help me a lot more than hasten can at this point.

The important thing is you can now do this stuff. It's much easier to tailor a character to reinforce strengths or plug critical weaknesses. Before all you had as HOs at around 50. Before that, you simply couldn't. And that's not counting stacking up the set bonuses. Another 7% psi-resists, +40 to regen (so far), and another 10% to my hit points are fairly big deals. My MMs and corruptors are looking forward to knockback resistance without needing acrobatics. Lots of new options!

[Nebu]

The important thing is you can now do this stuff. It's much easier to tailor a character to reinforce strengths or plug critical weaknesses. Before all you had as HOs at around 50. Before that, you simply couldn't. And that's not counting stacking up the set bonuses. Another 7% psi-resists, +40 to regen (so far), and another 10% to my hit points are fairly big deals. My MMs and corruptors are looking forward to knockback resistance without needing acrobatics. Lots of new options!

While I agree with this almost completely, it fails to address the fundamental flaw the game has: that everything gets very repetitive after about level 36 or so.  I love the combat system, I love the fact that I can slaughter hoards of bad guys, but the sameness of it all really gets to me.  Combine this to the fact that there are really no new abilities to look forward to in the end-game and this is a title that wears quickly.  I want more bad guys, more mission variety, and more things to look forward to.  I can endure the long periods between abilities better if there's a new trick to look forward to.  Without a regular group to play with, I think my enjoyment from this game will come almost entirely from rerolling and playing to level 30.  That seems to be my breaking point. 

[Signe]

They need tons and tons and tons of new tile sets, too.  One of the reasons I only play for a couple of months at a time is because after a bit, I pretty much know what's around every corner, regardless of level, regardless of city.  One of the reasons I continue to go back is to make alts with new powers and combinations.  After a while, they cancel each other out and sap all my motivation to log in. 

[Xanthippe]

I'd play again if they changed everything so the highest level was 30, or if I could get to max_level in the time it takes to get to 30.  High twenties is where I start to burn out.  Early 30s is where I lose all desire to play.

I do resub now and again, but it's mostly to let my 8 year old daughter make new characters.  She'll play to 10 or so, and then start over.  I'll hop on one of my high-20/low-30 toons and play a few times.  It's fun for a month.

[bhodi]

Yeah, I just resubbed on justice to play with some friends. Blah, I hope I can even make it to the end of my one-month sub.

[eldaec]

While I agree with this almost completely, it fails to address the fundamental flaw the game has: that everything gets very repetitive after about level 36 or so.  I love the combat system, I love the fact that I can slaughter hoards of bad guys, but the sameness of it all really gets to me.  Combine this to the fact that there are really no new abilities to look forward to in the end-game and this is a title that wears quickly.  I want more bad guys, more mission variety, and more things to look forward to.  I can endure the long periods between abilities better if there's a new trick to look forward to.  Without a regular group to play with, I think my enjoyment from this game will come almost entirely from rerolling and playing to level 30.  That seems to be my breaking point. 

While I agree with this from a pure combat perspective, I think one of the key goals of the IO system is to encourage you to spend some amount of time not in combat.

Messing with the market and IO systems does give you something to do while finding a group, or as a break between groups, and the structure is certainly more interesting and casual-viable than the typical crafting game of watch-the-green-bar.

As you say though, it doesn't increase the variety in core gameplay, and espeicially in the 30-45 range, that is what CoX really needs.

[Trippy]

Anyone caught site of a DB-spoiler site yet, so I can check some of this stuff out at my leisure?

My scrapper is in the upper 30s, so IOs seem to be the way to go. Unfortunately, I don't have piles of influence sitting around.

http://paragonwiki.com/Invention_System
http://paragonwiki.com/Invention_Origin_Enhancements

The CoH/CoV forums have guides as well.

[Glazius]

As you say though, it doesn't increase the variety in core gameplay, and espeicially in the 30-45 range, that is what CoX really needs.

Well, first off, I consider CoX's endgame to start at about 30. Perhaps slightly later for certain power sets. Sure, there are still levels to go, but seriously now - in WoW when you hit 60 pre-expack or 70 post-expack, are you really at the peak of your development, or does that happen much later, after you run through a gradated series of raids, each of which pretty much requires that you're kitted out in gear from the last?

Also, seriously not trying to imply anything by this, please give me an example of "variety in core gameplay" from another game that's worked well. Doesn't have to be an MMO, doesn't even necessarily have to relate. Because I'm trying to come up with one, and I could really _use_ a foundation to build on.

--GF

[Glazius]

Also, got together with my supergroup, got the band back together, grabbed an extra special guest because I play the only high-level tank _and_ blaster, and got thoroughly schooled several times but managed to beat the Statesman Task Force.

...and because of a bug, the game thought I'd already gotten a synthetic Hami in the past 24 hours and so I was denied my chance to roll the dice and probably get another freaking centriole.

Le sigh.

Anyway, assuming nobody minds spoilers, I can enthuse.

--GF

[Trippy]

...and because of a bug, the game thought I'd already gotten a synthetic Hami in the past 24 hours and so I was denied my chance to roll the dice and probably get another freaking centriole.

I take it you didn't read through that splash screen that comes up when you login :-D

[Glazius]

...and because of a bug, the game thought I'd already gotten a synthetic Hami in the past 24 hours and so I was denied my chance to roll the dice and probably get another freaking centriole.

I take it you didn't read through that splash screen that comes up when you login :-D

For some reason it tends to crash my system half the time. I'm betting on older graphics drivers there, and my insistence on running the game in a window when ATI hates that so very very much. So the game thinks I've already seen an announcement which, unfortunately, I have not.

I know that the enhancer not rewarding is a known issue. Something else?

--GF

[rk47]

As you say though, it doesn't increase the variety in core gameplay, and espeicially in the 30-45 range, that is what CoX really needs.

Well, first off, I consider CoX's endgame to start at about 30. Perhaps slightly later for certain power sets. Sure, there are still levels to go, but seriously now - in WoW when you hit 60 pre-expack or 70 post-expack, are you really at the peak of your development, or does that happen much later, after you run through a gradated series of raids, each of which pretty much requires that you're kitted out in gear from the last?

Also, seriously not trying to imply anything by this, please give me an example of "variety in core gameplay" from another game that's worked well. Doesn't have to be an MMO, doesn't even necessarily have to relate. Because I'm trying to come up with one, and I could really _use_ a foundation to build on.

--GF

places to go and new stuff to look and kill is what I like about WoW. I admit it gets old once u seeen and done everything but in CoX I hardly get interested on missions, with the lack of variety on reward SO & Inf woohoo. Even mission story arcs...are just ...run around beat on the same warehouse layout of guards. 3-some or 5-some depending on difficulty. Superspeed to boss. clear room. complete. read story again. Occasionally ogle at the cool animation of shadow maul etc.

There's so many stuff to do at 30&40 at WoW. Tradeskills. Quests. sometimes Class specific quests. BattlegroundPVP. Farming gold has multiple ways to it, either you harvest raw materials or craft something that is in demand, messing around in Auction house etc.

I can't find any of that in CoX. It's all running around with occasionaly LEVEL specific reward : Aura, Cape etc. And get my story arc done. woohoo. Not much else. By the time i got to 40 i'm already burned out with the same setup of mobs. Especially the horrible portal corp missions in COH. That's when I just start alt, messed around to 20-30 and quit again.

[Signe]

I can't get past 35 in CoH and I've stopped trying.  I just make an alt and fiddle with the new powers mostly.  Doing the same missions over and over gets old, too, though, so I usually stop playing for a few months or so and go back later, usually when there's a new issue.  I can't seem to go past 2 months without a break, though the combat is so fun that I do eventually return.  One of these days, however, I'm sure I'll give up completely.

[eldaec]

Another problem I have with this game at high levels is the graphics.

The particle effects once everyone has everything going on are insane, I can't see shit in a large group battle.

It's just pick a target using tab or assist as appropriate, then fly by instruments.

If you look for some high level AV battles on youtube, the one thing they have in common, is that you can't see the AV, as he or she in inevitably in the centre of a whited-out out mass of power effects.

[Glazius]

Another problem I have with this game at high levels is the graphics.

The particle effects once everyone has everything going on are insane, I can't see shit in a large group battle.

So use the slider in the graphics menu to turn down your max particle count.

You need to "enable advanced graphics settings" to get it to show up, though.

--GF

[Glazius]

I hardly get interested on missions, with the lack of variety on reward SO & Inf woohoo. Even mission story arcs...are just ...run around beat on the same warehouse layout of guards. 3-some or 5-some depending on difficulty. Superspeed to boss. clear room. complete.

So... you're deliberately playing the game in the most boring and shallow manner possible, and then complaining because it's boring and shallow.

I don't want that to sound as fanboy as it does, but seriously, this isn't WoW, and the relevant difference here is that _unlike_ WoW, you can make pickup teams that don't suck and are more fun than going solo.

--GF

[Typhon]

Also, seriously not trying to imply anything by this, please give me an example of "variety in core gameplay" from another game that's worked well. Doesn't have to be an MMO, doesn't even necessarily have to relate. Because I'm trying to come up with one, and I could really _use_ a foundation to build on.

--GF

DAOC's endgame had a bunch of variety - RvR pvp differed quite a bit from night to night.  Housing was a decent diversion (and there, farming for cash, items).  And there was the occasional raid.  Course, trials of Atlantis f'd it all up.

I just can't agree with you that CoX's endgame starts at 30.  If what you are trying to say is that your character won't get more powerful in a significant way I sort of see what you are saying, but I disagree, all the slots that you get between 33 and 50 have a significant impact.  It's just that you don't get anything significantly new for the next 17 levels... and therefore the next 17 levels DRAG.

I'm glad the game is still entertaining for you.  I re-upped for inventions, and then let my sub lapse.  I keep wishing that someone would take the combat mechanic and combine it with a better designed level scheme... and if I'm really wishing, I wish that the next super hero game didn't use classes(archtypes).

[Glazius]

If what you are trying to say is that your character won't get more powerful in a significant way I sort of see what you are saying, but I disagree, all the slots that you get between 33 and 50 have a significant impact.  It's just that you don't get anything significantly new for the next 17 levels... and therefore the next 17 levels DRAG.

Well, yes. And all the gear you get from your latest raid has a significant impact, too.

I still think the comparison holds.

--GF

[bhodi]

I'm kind of pissed off I can't get into my supergroup's base without paying for CoV. I came back to play with friends, and now they want me to buy something else? Fuck that.

[eldaec]

If what you are trying to say is that your character won't get more powerful in a significant way I sort of see what you are saying, but I disagree, all the slots that you get between 33 and 50 have a significant impact.  It's just that you don't get anything significantly new for the next 17 levels... and therefore the next 17 levels DRAG.

Well, yes. And all the gear you get from your latest raid has a significant impact, too.

I still think the comparison holds.

+10% uberness isn't a significant impact on gameplay. Whether it comes from power slots or raid gear.

New powers are an impact, new spells and abilities in other games are an impact.

32+ is mostly endgame in CoH, just as raid levels are endgame in WoW.

I don't think anyone can do that character progression thing in an indefinitely interesting way, eventually the game changing spells and abilities have to slow to a crawl. At that point you have to have a richer and more varied endgame.

DAoC and EVE (possibly UO?) are the only large scale MMOGs I can think of that both weren't shit and had endgame gameplay with significant variety.

At a stretch I'd give you GW, but the problems sport pvp has in requiring membership of guilds which have every reason to exclude you prevents most people even reaching the varied and interesting part of the endgame.

It's fair to say that CoX 30+ is no worse than EQ, WoW, or whatever, but that doesn't really mean that any of them have achieved an interesting endgame.

The only interesting PvE endgame I can think of that anyone has provided in any MMOG would be aTitD.

[Nebu]

The only interesting PvE endgame I can think of that anyone has provided in any MMOG would be aTitD.

Not to split hairs, but aTitD is really a PvP game moreso than a PvE game.  The oracle race "endgame" is very much a pvp affair.  There are just no HP or HAM bars involved.

As for the bit about CoX, I just find that after I've reached about level 36, I've seen it all.  I'd like more varied missions, more interesting AI and use of the z-axis, and a feeling that the 10h+ of play it's going to take for me to get another level will give me some tangible effect on my toon's performance.  The PvP balance is so out of whack that it's hardly worth mention as a part of the endgame.

[eldaec]

The only interesting PvE endgame I can think of that anyone has provided in any MMOG would be aTitD.

Not to split hairs, but aTitD is really a PvP game moreso than a PvE game.  The oracle race "endgame" is very much a pvp affair.  There are just no HP or HAM bars involved.

I take your point, but you equally argue that the victory condition in aTitD is explictly laid down as the entire realm 'winning' by causing the telling to end, and demonstrating the superiority of the community over the stranger.

You can pvp in atitd certainly, but technically to do so you have to play to extend the telling, by working on behalf of the stranger (plenty of ways to do that by destroying resources, or working to upset player managed markets and currency systems) - but almost nobody does that in practice. Players racing against each other is just one way in which the community organises itself to finish the telling more quickly. Even if I don't win the race, then by participating in the economy and even by providing competition, I push the telling to end more quickly, and I share in the victory.

Prizes for everyone!

 :-D

[CmdrSlack]

The only interesting PvE endgame I can think of that anyone has provided in any MMOG would be aTitD.

Not to split hairs, but aTitD is really a PvP game moreso than a PvE game.  The oracle race "endgame" is very much a pvp affair.  There are just no HP or HAM bars involved.

As for the bit about CoX, I just find that after I've reached about level 36, I've seen it all.  I'd like more varied missions, more interesting AI and use of the z-axis, and a feeling that the 10h+ of play it's going to take for me to get another level will give me some tangible effect on my toon's performance.  The PvP balance is so out of whack that it's hardly worth mention as a part of the endgame.

Oddly enough, I've discovered that in the early 40s, the villain types change up...and add some considerable challenge, at least for my scrapper.  It's not necessarily the new content you want, but I've found the carnies to be interesting so far.

[Signe]

The Carnies are fun... and they scream when they're defeated!  But even they aren't enough to keep me going for more than a couple of months without a good sized break.  The Crafting-lol isn't, either.  It's made the game a bit more fulfilling, but not really more interesting.

[Furiously]

What they did is add "drops" to the game ala diablo.

[Glazius]

I'm kind of pissed off I can't get into my supergroup's base without paying for CoV. I came back to play with friends, and now they want me to buy something else? Fuck that.

If you can find CoV on the shelves (or bargain bin) for more than the cost of the free month, I'd be surprised.

Or pick up GvE now that it's not a Walmart exclusive. The booster jump pack and port to Pocket D are nice extras, and it should still be pretty close to one monthly fee.

Plus, 4 extra character slots either way.

--GF

[Signe]

You can buy the GvE pack if you already have the game for a tenner, too.

[Typhon]

Well, yes. And all the gear you get from your latest raid has a significant impact, too.

I still think the comparison holds.

From a purely mechanical perspective I think you are right, the pay off of the player's actions are mechanically similar.  From a player perspecitive, completely differernt.  In a typical mmo you get to the end game/raiding game and your character is 'complete'.  You get the highest level party and you're 'in the big boy leagues'.  All silly stuff, I'll admit, but I can't help admitting that it matters.

In CoX, you've just gotten your last meaningful power, which is very situational, and you're starting to feel that "why am I doing this?!" feeling, but you have no sense of closure.  The leveling design achieves the goals they intended, but to me it feels very unsatisfying and I dislike it to the point where now it's all I see.

[Llava]

Also, at 70 in WoW, you can compete with the "big boys", team with them, go on the high level raids, etc.

In CoV, you can't compete with them, can team when sidekicked, but can't go on the highest task forces.  If 30 is their endgame, they didn't do anything to make it feel that way other than halt significant advancement.  At that point you're not even facing the signature characters, much less feeling as powerful as them.

[UnSub]

I'm currently in my early 40s with my main and finding that Inventions is adding a new dimension, notably sucking my character savings dry in trying to equip him with IO sets.

It is a fun enough system to put things up for sale up on consignment then come back and get the inf for them. Suddenly a lot of things suddenly have a value and a lot of character development options have opened up. Not everyone wants IO sets, or even common IOs - DOs and SOs sell for some pretty cheap prices and players have been buying them.

The part of the game that probably drags the most heroside is 35 - 40, which was the original end-lvl zone on launch. However, between more people being online post-I9 launch and the fact that PUGs in CoH/V generally don't suck (or I've been very, very lucky) I've found that I9 has done a lot of good for CoH/V.

Or at least my experience with it, anyway.

Since we are also talking about "the grind", I have to say that I find badge collecting to be another reasonable goal in CoH/V that can help pass levels by (or serve as a ding gratz moment that is otherwise meaningless). Yes, you can grind them out if you want and the 'epic' badges have insane requirements, but it does give players in CoH/V something else to do.

[Valant]

Yeah Im on about my 5th cycle of cancelling both of my CoX accounts... Seems like theres a trend of players going back for about a month or two, getting burned out again, then cancelling...I really think that is a core flaw with something theyve done with, not only the mission system, but the lack of static, persistent player structures, lack of persistent non-instaced content in the zones (lets say the Rikti warp in and take over Steel Canyon and the players have to take it back, for ex.)- just a lack of creativity at the higher levels to keep the game meaningful to the veteran players with multiple lvl 50's.


IO's and the entire Invention system was really not what I was looking for, as its basically a PvP tweaker tool moreso than anything else, because I already own just about anything (including players in PvP) already with all the Hamio's I have on my Scrappers and Defenders. I really dont want to spend a ton of time micro-managing my powerset further just to hand out more beat downs in RV or Sirens Call....

They need an infusion of content, storylines, new archtypes, new powers, the ability to change your powers at the high levels, greater rewards for PvP slaughtering, fun PvP zones that give the players a better sense of immersion than just Atlas Park hiring a cleaning and graffiti busting crew when the heroes are winning in RV- the list can go on for quite awhile...I just thought IO's were a bad idea for the longevity factor of the game, hands down...Some will argue the opposite, but if this thread is any indication, the IO reception is rather underwhelming.

[Valant]

Since we are also talking about "the grind", I have to say that I find badge collecting to be another reasonable goal in CoH/V that can help pass levels by (or serve as a ding gratz moment that is otherwise meaningless). Yes, you can grind them out if you want and the 'epic' badges have insane requirements, but it does give players in CoH/V something else to do.

And heres my problem with badges- its like the times where my teachers in high school gave us busy work just because their lame asses couldnt think up anything creative for us to do that day...so we were stuck doing the work just for the sake of...well.. 'doing it'

Only a tiny amount of the hundreds of badges you can get reward you in any type of way...and those the players usually complete right away...for the rest, its almost like- wtf is the point? Just to say we did it? So we can have our 'Ub3r badge HunTerz' title..Gimme a break...

Not knocking you or anything, but I feel the idea of gathering meaningless badges is just that- meaningless.....Just another scam to keep people paying for subscription time until they can push out the next content patch.