I9 is live

[Trippy]

Here's a table for how ED affects the basic level 50 IOs:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Number=7995624

[Shrike]

Just over this weekend alone, the market has settled down quite a bit on salvage. The whole boresights-for-millions thing is pretty much over. Magical salvage still runs high, especially for rares, but it's come done quite a bit over the weekend. One reason is people like me who took one look at magical salvage prices and then did nothing but run CoT and carnie paper missions from there on (ELM/ELA brute for the win!). Made a lot of infamy and actually got my crushing impact sets in.

Now the real issue is availability of set piece recipes. To put it simply, it sucks. Even on Virtue there are very few recipes for high end sets, particularily the orange rare sets. I've had the devil's own time trying to put together even one Sirrocco's set for my brute. Best I could do was two IOs in lightning rod. There simply are no recipes for sale. No IOs either, but they still go stupid-high in price when you do find one, so screw that. Still, it's only been a few days, but I"d like to experiement more with the set bonuses. Some of these are pretty nifty. I picked up something like 130 hps just from the crushing impact sets (only can use two). Throw in recharge bonues, +ACC bonues, regen(!), and psi-resists and you have one happy brute.

[Kitsune]

I certainly care about character appearance, I simply have no fliers to actually use the wings.  And I'm sure that in a few weeks the wings will be available for pretty cheap if I should want them again.  Best to make the money while the money-makin's good.

[Trippy]

Now the real issue is availability of set piece recipes. To put it simply, it sucks. Even on Virtue there are very few recipes for high end sets, particularily the orange rare sets.

My understanding, which is admittedly very limited, is that the consignment house is shared across all the servers.

[UnSub]

Now the real issue is availability of set piece recipes. To put it simply, it sucks. Even on Virtue there are very few recipes for high end sets, particularily the orange rare sets.

My understanding, which is admittedly very limited, is that the consignment house is shared across all the servers.

This is correct.

The reason for low availability is that everyone wants them right now. Things will settle a bit as time moves on, but I'm sure that Numina's Convolesence (sp?) is always going to be in short supply.

[eldaec]

Now the real issue is availability of set piece recipes. To put it simply, it sucks. Even on Virtue there are very few recipes for high end sets, particularily the orange rare sets.

My understanding, which is admittedly very limited, is that the consignment house is shared across all the servers.

This is correct.

The reason for low availability is that everyone wants them right now. Things will settle a bit as time moves on, but I'm sure that Numina's Convolesence (sp?) is always going to be in short supply.

I strongly suspect that supply and demand will both drop in a week or so, resulting in even lower liquidity even for common items on the market.

The market is borked.

A combination of the 24 hour listing limit (fine for spell ink, less so for rare parts and unusual recipes) and the blind bid system (which is just irritating, and results in everyone starting low and bidding up painfully slowly till they get an accept) is going to make the market a royal pain in the butt to use.

[Hutch]

The market is borked.

A combination of the 24 hour listing limit (fine for spell ink, less so for rare parts and unusual recipes) and the blind bid system (which is just irritating, and results in everyone starting low and bidding up painfully slowly till they get an accept) is going to make the market a royal pain in the butt to use.

There's a 24 hour listing limit? Does that apply to buy orders? I've left items for sale in the CH for several days running.

[tazelbain]

I like the invention system it gives you something to fiddle around with between levels, but it's not going to change things for those who are burned out.  I'll probably head back when I get tired on EQII again.

This secret bidding system sucks in so many ways.  The only good thing about it is the history will basically render it irrelevant once the market stabilizes. Still you'll have to wait up to a day for even the simplest transaction which is boring.

[Glazius]

The market is borked.

A combination of the 24 hour listing limit (fine for spell ink, less so for rare parts and unusual recipes) and the blind bid system (which is just irritating, and results in everyone starting low and bidding up painfully slowly till they get an accept) is going to make the market a royal pain in the butt to use.

There's a 24 hour listing limit? Does that apply to buy orders? I've left items for sale in the CH for several days running.

Yeah, I just sold something last night that I put into the CH right after the patch went live.

Apparently they peeled out that whole "24 hour" part without telling anybody.

--GF

[Furiously]

The market seems REALLY easy to game. I definately saw some of that going on last night with people posting something then immediately buying it to modify the historical pricing. They really need to make it show the last 10-20 prices.

It's also not a friendly system to navigate.

[Glazius]

The market seems REALLY easy to game. I definately saw some of that going on last night with people posting something then immediately buying it to modify the historical pricing. They really need to make it show the last 10-20 prices.

...what, so people will post something then buy it 20 times over?

--GF

[Shrike]

If you spend enough time fiddling with the market you get a feel for what is selling for what.

Right now, mid-30s to early-40s recipes are high. Especially damage ones and healing. Rare (orange) magical salvage is very high still. Any completed damage or healing IO is extremely high (though, these can be very expensive to produce, so high is expected; just not multi-millions high, which is where many are).

The real problem is there isn't very good feedback for what's going on when you actually look at the CH. Anecdotally, we know heroes have it easier with the villain market being substantially more expensive to work in (which isn't entirely unappropriate given the backstory of the game). A quick glance doesn't tell you much, however. A weekend and then some does show you some trends, though. Any magical salvage that's hard to get and used in common abilities (ACC, DAM, healing) are very high and apt to stay that way for some time yet. Same thing with recipes. Finished set uncommon or rare IOs are extremely high yet (they do cost a lot to make at the high end), and are also apt to stay that way. One exception is lvl50 IOs. Some are dumping these on the market to gain crafting badges, so deals can be had if you shop smart.

Fundamentally, you have to set limits to what you're willing to deal with. Two things go into this:

1) You don't need sets or even IOs to function well. If you don't want to pay, then don't. No one will be the wiser--aside from lack of set bonuses in your personal info, which only means you aren't slotting for sets.

2) You can't take it with you. Inf in the bank really doesn't mean much. It's easy to get, even without the market. If you want something, spend the inf. Finishing a set will do you more good (and earn you more inf in the long run) than a couple of million of inf sitting in the bank doing nothing. Luxury items are just that and I'd personally blow them off. They're strictly QoL items and do you no good in the game. Yeah, the wings are kinda cool, but if you don't have the bankroll, I wouldn't sweat it (they don't fit in any of my character concepts anyway).

[Kitsune]

The market seems REALLY easy to game. I definately saw some of that going on last night with people posting something then immediately buying it to modify the historical pricing. They really need to make it show the last 10-20 prices.

It's also not a friendly system to navigate.

The market takes a 10% cut of any purchase, manipulating the price list can get expensive.

[Nebu]

I like the invention system it gives you something to fiddle around with between levels, but it's not going to change things for those who are burned out. 

VERY true.  I've had some fun doing missions to get recipes and salvage, but when all the influence is gone I'm still left running the same missions through the same buildings/caves.  I can't help but feeling that the game after about 36 is very stagnant.  No really fun powers to look toward and more grind than ever.  Looks like I've lasted a bit longer this time around, but the grind is getting to me again.  I guess it's back to DAoC until I need another hero fix in 3 or 4 months.

[Strazos]

I logged in today to not only patch I9 into my client, but also to claim my new prestige run powers...

Too bad Quick is pretty much the best of the 4 anyway. My main looks pretty obnoxious when he turns on Quick and Superspeed, especially with my costume aura on as well.

[Phred]

I actually ended up resubscribing after so many years away and dispite my previous rather negative posts. What swung me to subscribe was grouping. Dispite my early bad experiences I've had a ton of good groups since the weekend and it really overcomes the blahs of the mid 30's nicely. I've met a few ppl who are quite good at "herding" and we run instances fairly regularly in the evenings. There's nothing like pulling a full room of 40 or 50 mobs and living through it.  I'm actually almost out of the 30's already. About 25% through 39 and my scrapper was 36 1/2 when I came back. After the hell that was WoW for pickup groups any game that can offer some non-retard groupage is worth a month's subscription in my book.

However, my attempts to mess around on alts has only left me feeling sort of frustrated with how slow the early game is. Soloing is still boring as hell even when your exp requirements are as low as L5 or so, and not having a travel power bites hard.

Anyone know what level radio missions become an option? My L5 has a radio but it doesnt work anywhere yet.

And is anyone in a semi functional supergroup on Victory? My old sg other than me the last login was 795 days ago.

[Glazius]

Anyone know what level radio missions become an option? My L5 has a radio but it doesnt work anywhere yet.

Radios only work in zones with a police station.

So, if you go to Kings Row and turn on your radio, it'll pick stuff up.

Every time you zone your radio gets new missions.

Sometimes instead of an ordinary mission the radio will pick up a store robbery or bank job. These can be fun. Especially the pwn shops. (not a typo)

--GF

[Phred]

Anyone know what level radio missions become an option? My L5 has a radio but it doesnt work anywhere yet.

Radios only work in zones with a police station.

So, if you go to Kings Row and turn on your radio, it'll pick stuff up.

Every time you zone your radio gets new missions.

Sometimes instead of an ordinary mission the radio will pick up a store robbery or bank job. These can be fun. Especially the pwn shops. (not a typo)

--GF

Ah ok thanks on the police station tip. I guess atlas park doesn't have one. I've done a bunch of bank robbery missions on my scrapper already. Even got a nasty Arch Villian in one who creamed my whole party.

[eldaec]

and not having a travel power bites hard.

Remember that once you are level 5 you can get raido missions, you do a bundle of them, complete the first safeguard mission, and earn a jetpack temp power.

[Trippy]

Man I had forgotten how badly the early level CoH missions were designed. Getting sent across a mile of The Hollows at level 5 is quite painful. Almost makes me wish I liked playing evil characters.

[eldaec]

Man I had forgotten how badly the early level CoH missions were designed. Getting sent across a mile of The Hollows at level 5 is quite painful. Almost makes me wish I liked playing evil characters.

This is going to sound like me being a jackass, but...

Remember that once you are level 5 you can get raido missions, you do a bundle of them, complete the first safeguard mission, and earn a jetpack temp power.

The Hollows is still a shitty zone, but you shouldn't be dying or anything anymore.

[Trippy]

Yes I know, I'm working on the radio missions now but can you do the safeguard misson solo? Not many people at that level when I'm playing.

[CmdrSlack]

Yes I know, I'm working on the radio missions now but can you do the safeguard misson solo? Not many people at that level when I'm playing.

It is possible.  I have done it with various types of defender before (rad/psych was easiest).  It gets a bit squirrely at times, but as long as you run straight to the bank and avoid street fighting on the way, it is doable.

[Phred]

and not having a travel power bites hard.

Remember that once you are level 5 you can get raido missions, you do a bundle of them, complete the first safeguard mission, and earn a jetpack temp power.

How long does this power last?

[CmdrSlack]

and not having a travel power bites hard.

Remember that once you are level 5 you can get raido missions, you do a bundle of them, complete the first safeguard mission, and earn a jetpack temp power.

How long does this power last?

Two hours of use.  The next tier of safeguard missions is about 5 levels or so later and gives a 2 hour of use superjump pack.  Most of my characters put off a real travel power until well into their teens using the temp powers instead.

[Strazos]

Just to make things clear, that's two hours of actual USE. So if you have it on for 10 seconds to get somewhere, you only burned 10 seconds.

Those things last a LONG time, especially if you use them sparingly.


(But hell, I had my controller toon using the jetpack to hover while fighting 2 giant monster mobs....long fights).

[eldaec]

Yes I know, I'm working on the radio missions now but can you do the safeguard misson solo? Not many people at that level when I'm playing.

It's usually easier solo than teamed. But it does depend on your ability to beat a boss solo, which can be a worry for some builds that early.

At level 5 if you /broad 'looking for lvl 5 members to do safeguard mission and get a fucking jetpack' you will be inundated with tells on most servers. If you are concerned about your hero's solo ability, run it as a duo and you'll be fine.

[tazelbain]

The blackmarket isn't a bad as I thought.  When the price on a item settles down you can get buy/sell it a few seconds.

[Trippy]

Recipe prices are still ridiculous. I thought I had a lot of influence pre-I9 with 35 million and that's not even enough money to buy all the recipes I would need to outfit my character with level 50 common IOs. I understand Cryptic wanting to put in massive money sinks but PLer teams can farm influence by the boatload but casual players are screwed.

[Shrike]

Level 50 IOs are damned expensive to make. However, you do see quite a few for sale at a loss (to the maker) to get vendor/crafter badges.

Set recipe prices vary all over the place yet. I'm not sure exactly why, but I suspect that some (with less strenuous salvage reqs) just drop more than others. I've had a helluva time getting Sirrocco's Dervish dam/end recipes. They either never show up on the BM or when they do they have some ridiculous reserve. The recharge IO recipes, though, can usually be had for a song and a dance. Same thing with the salvage. Most is either practically free, or no more than an SO itself would be. However, there are a few arcane uncommon and rare chokepoints. Soul-trapped gems, Pangean Soil, and, ummm, some other orange arcane bit regularly go for 1.5mil+. I've been lucky finding these, but if you need one the cost of admission can be very ugly indeed.

I don't buy the casual unfriendly thing. I"m about as casual as it gets. I play quite a bit, but I"m not in a VG, I don't team all THAT much (maybe 30% of my time) and I don't typically do SFs. I also pay little attention to accolades (which just recently bit me in the nether regions, but, ehh...). Having said all that my 38 ELM/ELA brute is absolutely decked in melee and PBAoE damage sets. My personal info is a wall of text now, due to set bonuses. I managed all this on a very limited budget, fairly limited time constraints, with only a fair amount of paper farming in about two weeks. Maybe 8-9mil in inf blown altogether. Hell, I'd have more slotted up, but the resistance sets suck at three slots and Numina's set can't be found with a search warrant and isn't all that anyway for clicky powers.

Believe me, it's not hard to take good advantage of I9 even for casuals.

[Strazos]

One question: Are the IOs level-gated? I ask because I was under the assumption that making IOs at 20 is easier than making them at 40, and they don't degrade as you level, so it's better to make them sooner, rather than later.

/runonsentence_off

[Shrike]

They are, to some degree.

What you have to consider is the effects of ED on things. Anything past about 98% enchancement sees rapidly diminishing returns. Set pieces often have a split of enhancment that will cap ED in one or two areas, and give good returns elsewhere. Also, the salvage requirements change on some set pieces as they increase in level. I've seen this in Sirrocco's set. Some 30ish pieces have easily met requirements. About level 38-40, these go up and require some very difficult to find arcane salvage.

The big thing is you have to compare what you're getting from IOs (especially sets, as they're more complicated) as opposed to a regular old SO. SOs give 32% enhancement on schedule A at +3. That's what your IO is up against. They hit 30% around level 27. Personally, I begin upgrading at 25. IOs are close enough to be worth it, and since you level pretty quickly up until about 30 or so, you'll find yourself with the bulk of your IOs better than SOs. The bottom line answer is it's worth it when they equal SOs in their enhancement percentage (32%).

Set pieces are a lot more complicated. If you're 5 or 6 slotting an ability, chances are you'll see marked improvements (even over HOs) with a set. 4 slots are debatable; it depends what bonuses you're angling for and how the set is constructed. 3 slots or less, forget it unless it's to slot some unique IO for a specific reason (knockdown protection or something like the massive +regen/recovery of Numina's set).

[Strazos]

Anyone caught site of a DB-spoiler site yet, so I can check some of this stuff out at my leisure?

My scrapper is in the upper 30s, so IOs seem to be the way to go. Unfortunately, I don't have piles of influence sitting around.

[Alkiera]

One question: Are the IOs level-gated? I ask because I was under the assumption that making IOs at 20 is easier than making them at 40, and they don't degrade as you level, so it's better to make them sooner, rather than later.

/runonsentence_off

While this is true, the higher level IOs have better percentages on them than lower level ones.  I've noted variance of 1% or so in the ~45-50 lvl range, I'm not sure how that shifts over larger level ranges, I didn't play my newbs much during the free weekend.

--
Alkiera

[UnSub]

Basic IOs become better than SOs at about lvl 25 (I think). Using them will allow you to hit the ED caps with fewer enhancements at lvl 40 - 50, which means you can then either slot other enhancements or use those slots on other powers.

Two traps I've run into are:

1) Because basic IOs look like basic enhancements, I thought them to be without value. They aren't because they can't be outleveled and because they can provide a greater enhancement bonus than SOs.

2) Getting a full IO set is nice, but it is probably not as good as you'd expect. I'm playing around with partial sets that will add to my Blaster's hit points and regen, which may only require two or three of a set to accomplish.