My Pokemans, Let Me Show You Them.

[Fabricated]

Anyway, have they made any significant changes to the gameplay in this edition or what? Also, is there a reason that Nintendo hasn't made an actual Pokemon MMORPG and built Scrooge McDuck's money vault with it?

The DS is their first handheld that has built-in Internet connectivity so it wouldn't have been possible before that. Also I'm not sure how much extra data you can fit on one of the game cards. You would probably need to use the GBA slot as a memory card reader to handle the downloadable content.

Edit: typos

Er, I mean on console/PC.

[Strazos]

I'm sure if you flipped through a guide you'd find differences. I'll just take them as they come.

[Kitsune]

The core mechanics of turn-based RPG are untouched, so differences are a matter of opinion.  The major differences are in the new pokemon and moves, and the ability to play and trade over the net, those are the things that will have the most impact on your average player.  The minor differences are numerous and pleasing, and are somewhat compiled on this page, just click the links on the right side.

[Samwise]

They're making games based on Pokemon now?

[schild]

They're making games based on Pokemon now?

I'd slap you if you didn't have Chickimon as an avatar.

[Yegolev]

Dude, finesse.  If you're trying to catch them, use a weaker pokemon, or a weaker attack, or an attack that your target is resistant towards.  Anything that will reduce the damage being dealt.  If you're using a level 20 water pokemon with SUPER AQUA DEATH against a level 5 fire pokemon, no wonder it's dropping in one hit.

So... basically the complete opposite of Shin Megami Tensei.

[Moaner]

So against my better judgement I picked this up last night on my way home from work.  I was up until 2am leaving me 3 hours of sleep for today.  Needless to say I'm pleased with the game.

I'll figure out this friends code stuff later on and maybe throw down with some of you freaks.

[Kitsune]

So far, most new towns I've entered have introduced a new gameplay mechanic.  Thoughtful design, spacing out the game features for easier digestion by younger players.  I also really like that the background music changes with the time.  Two badges down.

[schild]

I forgot to save the game the other night. I need to do about 3 hours again. I'm a donk.

[Khaldun]

I am having such a hard time holding back on taking command of my 6-year old's play that I'm thinking we need two DS in the house. You know, so I can be the kind of bad father who CREAMS THE SHIT out of their kid. Only now I'm not so sure that would be the case: she kind of knows what she's doing. Which could turn into "pussy dad who gets the crap beaten out of him by a 6-year old".

Quite incidentally, we watched the film "Pokemon 3" today and I was gobsmacked that the whole thing is about an absent professor dad and a little girl's desperate need to have daddy (and maybe, from what I could infer, divorced mommy) back in her life, and then when daddy comes back with either ex-mommy or replacement mommy, IT HAPPENS DURING THE END CREDITS. WTF?

[Strazos]

Trial by fire, that'll teach...well, it'll teach one of you how to play well.

Plus, your kid would probably get a kick out of having a cool dad who will play Pokeman with/against them.

[Tige]

I hate mimes.

Slap...................Slap........................Slap...............................Slap

Khaldun, get the extra DS now or pay the therapist later.

[Kitsune]

I am deeply, deeply traumatized by the appearance of the new pokemaniac NPCs, who are on all fours and, I am not making this up, have a monkey humping their ass.

On the upside, whoever did the english localization did a great job of it, managing to insert 'a winner is you', 'for massive damage', and generally more grown-up, snarky dialogue that bitter gamers will appreciate.

[McCow]

Questions ahoy.

Any difference between the two versions beyond the 20 unique monsters? 
For those saying "deep game" I assume you mean tactically?  How deep compared to Advanced Wars or Fire Emblem (or insert tactical game here)?
Will my balls ever grow back if I buy this?  I really must say the name alone REALLY prevented me from even considering purchasing any of the previous versions.

[Kitsune]

1. Nah, same game.
2. Like I said, against the NPCs it's really not deep.  Against other humans it can get pretty insane, with all kinds of tactics and countermeasures.  It's somewhat like Magic in that there's often a popular tactic on top at any given time, you'll see the pokemon equivalent of net decks where people copy a popular team and other people try to build teams specifically to defeat the popular team.  Pokemon should be held up more against a game like Magic than Advance Wars; it's closer to a card game than a board game.
3. Probably not.

[Trippy]

1. Nah, same game.

Supposedly certain Pokemons appear at different times on the different games.

Pokemon should be held up more against a game like Magic than Advance Wars; it's closer to a card game than a board game.

Hence the reason why there is a CCG version of the game.

[McCow]

1. Nah, same game.

Supposedly certain Pokemons appear at different times on the different games.

Pokemon should be held up more against a game like Magic than Advance Wars; it's closer to a card game than a board game.

Hence the reason why there is a CCG version of the game.

Gotcha.  Thanks to you both.

[Quinton]

I have broken down and purchased not only some pokemans (Diamond), but a device to play the game on (DS Lite, white).  The DS is still kinda clunky, but the Lite is certainly less cheesy than the original.  This is my first-ever pokemans game, so it is all new to me.

EDIT: My friend code is 5111-9953-4491

- Q

[Tige]

Have any of you ran into location where you needed to have the ability to remove trees or rocks that were far way from a PC?

I'm carrying 2 relatively low pokemons just for this reason but finding I need all six slots for fighting as I progress.

[Liquidator]

Received Diamond in the mail today.  This is my first Pokemon game and it's awesome.  Here's my friend code.  Add me!  Let's battle, bitches!

Pokemon Diamond FC: 3608-7565-6090

[Strazos]

Have any of you ran into location where you needed to have the ability to remove trees or rocks that were far way from a PC?

I'm carrying 2 relatively low pokemons just for this reason but finding I need all six slots for fighting as I progress.

Yeah, you need to teach the HM Cut to one of your Pokeman. You WILL get this move; they force it upon you, and you need it to beat the game (along with a few other moves)


And yes, you'll probably need 6 Pokeman. You can teach each one lots of different moves, even those outside of the Pokeman's type.

[bhodi]

Schild, did you get your psyduck from quinton? Inquiring minds want to know?

Also, it appears the nintendo wi-fi is absoloute shit. Why can't companies get it in gear? Christ....

[Quinton]

Schild, did you get your psyduck from quinton? Inquiring minds want to know?

Also, it appears the nintendo wi-fi is absoloute shit. Why can't companies get it in gear? Christ....

We wasted an hour or two fucking around with firewall issues (pretty sure it was mostly on my side), but were unable to transfer the psyduck I had capture to schild. 

Things I have learned:
- it is possible to *really* confuse m0n0wall, requiring a full reboot to fix the firewall/NAT config
- pokemon:diamond does something with UDP that m0n0wall *hates* (whereas every other online game has worked with no tinkering)
- most unfortunately I discover that I only have one static IP (I was confusing my current DSL service with my old SBC DSL), so I can't hack around this with 1:1 NAT as I was hoping.
- with an "accept UDP from * to 10.0.0.42" rule I don't see the reject messages in the firewall logs, but still no worky ('42 is the IP for the dslite on my internal network)
- you have to power down the ds and power it back on, then go to the game, then choose wifi setup if you want to change your wifi settings.  The "test connection" thing only tests if the basic connection to the nintendo server deal works, so you then have to reboot
the ds again, enter the game, go to the wifi comms place, etc

I cannot imagine why for a game so completely turn based and uncaring about latency they didn't just stick with TCP through a central service so things would tend to "just work".  As far as I can tell the problems start after you connect to the Nintendo WiFi service, when you try to trade/chat/etc with another player -- at that point the two dslites seem to try to talk directly back and forth via UDP, which is going to cause most firewalls headaches.

- Q

EDIT: supposedly forwarding all UDP on 52000-60000 (I'm going for 50000-65535 for shits and grins) to the IP the DSlite is on will resolve it.  I tried some stuff like this last night, but was running into other firewall issues due to the amount of dumb things I was trying.  Now I just need to find schild or someone to test this crap with.

[Quinton]

Finally got schild his psyduck.

So here's the firewall deal:  I have UDP 50000-65535 NAT'd directly to the DS (should try 52000-60000 and see if it works with the reduced range some time).  In addition, I had to reconfigure the firewall to not renumber the outbound UDP packets, which it does by default.

- Q

[Strazos]

I got ahold of a free Ninty Wifi dongle, but I unfortunately could not get the thing working for the life of me.

I connected the thing, installed the latest software, and tried to link up. My DS can connect to the access point just fine, but it's unable to connect to whatever server it's trying to get to. I did everything I could think of to open up my connection to this thing. I set my firewall permissions to allow the dongle full acces, pretty much opened it up as much as I could, short of turning my actual firewall off.

(If it helps, I use Zonealarm's Security Suite)

Any idea? My PC detects the unit with no problems, and lets me integrate it into a network.

[Kitsune]

DSes and Wiis are both fucked pretty hard by firewalls that don't auto-configure for outbound connections.  All you have to do is establish the connection to Nintendo's server; you shouldn't have to open an inbound port, as nobody should be calling your DS.  This of course assumes a wireless router with port triggering, manual configuration may be a bitch depending on what you use for the firewall.

For software firewalls, when all else fails, shut them off and attempt the connection.  If the connection starts working, you missed a setting on the firewall.  If the software still doesn't work, it's not the firewall's fault.  Turn the firewall back on at that point and proceed from there.  I've never used one of those dongle wifi things, though, and can't think of anything more brilliant to say than to be aware that both the computer's firewall and any external firewalls could be conspiring against it.

And if all else fails after that, many McDonalds have free wi-fi going inside, billed specifically as being for DSes.  You can do a search for the closest free DS hotspot through Nintendo's website here.

[Raging Turtle]

Bought myself a DS and the game today, played a few hours, haven't been blown away.  That might have something to do with the ridiculous amount of hours I put in on the previous versions, though.

Might return both tomorrow if something doesn't click tonight - I was never all that big on handheld game systems.

*Edited for comprehension. 

[Quinton]

DSes and Wiis are both fucked pretty hard by firewalls that don't auto-configure for outbound connections.  All you have to do is establish the connection to Nintendo's server; you shouldn't have to open an inbound port, as nobody should be calling your DS.  This of course assumes a wireless router with port triggering, manual configuration may be a bitch depending on what you use for the firewall.

I didn't get a full packet trace of this, but based on the logs from the firewall before I got stuff straightened out, the issue seems to be that the DS connects to a central lobby server to find your friends, etc, but then once you initiate a battle/trade/voicechat the two ds devices just start spewing UDP packets at each other, peer-to-peer.  My firewall hates this (but gets along fine with client-server UDP style stuff with no special extra settings).

-Q

[Kitsune]

O RLY?  I had no idea that they went P2P at any time, I'd been under the misapprehension that all of their communications went through the server.  Well that'd explain how people managed to chat so easily in Metroid.

[Xanthippe]

My kid tells me that you can hatch new pokemon out of eggs.  He has a couple of chimchars now I think.

I only have the first gym badge (I took over my daughter's abandoned game; I started over, because she had traded all of her pokemon and not one of them would obey me).

[Kitsune]

Yes, you can make pokemon do the Mommy and Daddy Dance to get eggs and new pokemon.  And there's a limit on the level of traded pokemon that will obey you, hinging on the number of badges you have.  I think it's 0=10 , 2=30. 4=50. 6=70, all=any.  So if your kid gave you some level 50s and you only had two badges, they wouldn't obey you for crap.

[Azazel]

Where's the picture of schild's Pokemons that the thread's title promises?

[tazelbain]

You don't want no drama.

[Azazel]

That's a double negative.

Also, I want to see the pokemon. I have 3-5 carts in the series, so I'm not exactly trolling schild for funnies.

[Trippy]

He had his Pokemon pic up for a bit but then changed it to the Odin Sphere one.