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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Game Design/Development  |  Topic: Rebuilding made fun 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Rebuilding made fun  (Read 3249 times)
tazelbain
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tazelbain


on: March 13, 2007, 04:14:50 PM

Thinking about Open PvP and empire building...
In such an environment, there are bound to be losers.  Probably many more losers than winners. It is imperative that the losers have fun in being destroyed and have fun in the rebuilding process.  If being destroyed was fun like siege of Isengard and was fun to rebuild like the Sims, I doubt people would as likely to get their feelings hurt.


Ideas for fun rebuilding:
Huge options for city building - both functional and aesthetical. Like bases in Evil Genesis.  Having your city destroyed would be an opportunity to try out new layouts, new configurations, new nation strategies.
Hidden cities - Small invisible cities.  For a small nation or a starting point for a large city, lots of restrictions.  The biggest restriction is that the more trouble you cause you neighbors. the more likely they will discover you.  Hidden cities are for a guild who wants to lay low.
Reimbursement based on how grand your destruction was. Blatant bribe to try again. After they are defeated hidden stash location available(roleplay it as prudent planning) for them to start a new with a helping hand.
Bonus awards to individuals on how much they contributed to the reimbursement - Another blatant bribe like veteran rewards in other games but better.  From shiny toy to epic content.  The harder they fall, the bigger the pillow.
City building and running requires broad participation of nation members. - no brainer.  Seems ridiculous to spend all this effort to make this content and than only let a handful player experience it.

EDIT: added more.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2007, 02:27:16 PM by tazelbain »

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KallDrexx
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Reply #1 on: March 13, 2007, 06:33:52 PM

I always wished shadowbane gave you a decent amount of money that you spent back when you got sieged.  You would still lose the land, but it wouldn't take a huge effort to take the land back (relative to how much of an effort it is now).  Most importantly, you wouldn't have as much of the feeling that your guild lost everything it worked for, as most of it would be liquidated into an account somehow (maybe a special bank account that is accessible by guild officers).  The key to this working though is that you have to have a limited amount of land to build on (or some other way to make the land valuable) so there is still a point to sieging (and a penalty to losing a siege) and you can't take structures whole like you can now (otherwise the economic repercussions would be massive).
« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 06:35:57 PM by KallDrexx »
DarkSign
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Reply #2 on: June 07, 2007, 01:52:38 PM

I always wished shadowbane gave you a decent amount of money that you spent back when you got sieged.  You would still lose the land, but it wouldn't take a huge effort to take the land back (relative to how much of an effort it is now).  Most importantly, you wouldn't have as much of the feeling that your guild lost everything it worked for, as most of it would be liquidated into an account somehow (maybe a special bank account that is accessible by guild officers).  The key to this working though is that you have to have a limited amount of land to build on (or some other way to make the land valuable) so there is still a point to sieging (and a penalty to losing a siege) and you can't take structures whole like you can now (otherwise the economic repercussions would be massive).

I like this idea...but the opportunity for exploiting exists, well sort of.  As long as the cost of rebuilding was lower than what you'd lost it would still be a net loss and not worth exploiting.

If we're talking about an expansive, reactive world...perhaps if your guild had done quests with nearby factions / NPC cities and are on their good side, you'd get the money from them. Talk about a reason to do guild-level quests ;)
KyanMehwulfe
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Reply #3 on: June 07, 2007, 10:56:30 PM

I believe one key would be simplified as retainment and growth. Even in the sense of loss, there should still be a sense of progress. Not in the gameplay sense of power per se, but rather just in gameplay experience. The difference between starting over and starting anew. Certainly it's no easy task since most cited examples of the latter, especially in single-player games, while may be restarts of sorts but are almost always willing. Even if they aren't fully, they're not at the hands of another player, whom you may dislike greatly. But there are traits in those single-player games that should be able to make "rebuilding fun".

One element of retainment could be statistical growth based on "learning from your experience". An architect, for example, whom has watched his city sieged and destroyed, may indeed learn from that and be able to build stronger buildings as a result. Illustrated, in simplest form, by a simple skill bonus.

An isolated component yet fairly important is simply making early building more fun. Perhaps again best illustrated by single-player games; I know myself, though I love when my nation gets large in Romance of the Three Kingdoms, there's something I really love of starting anew and the small, focused management of so few officers and resources. It should be pretty obvious but I think it could be undervalued.

Permadeath arguments would likely be a good source to be drawn on. Most folks are strongly against them because of how MMO character development is end-heavy. "Permadeath" of cities and how to make that process more fun shares a lot of similar challenges.
Alkiera
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Reply #4 on: June 25, 2007, 03:18:09 PM


An isolated component yet fairly important is simply making early building more fun. Perhaps again best illustrated by single-player games; I know myself, though I love when my nation gets large in Romance of the Three Kingdoms, there's something I really love of starting anew and the small, focused management of so few officers and resources. It should be pretty obvious but I think it could be undervalued.

Permadeath arguments would likely be a good source to be drawn on. Most folks are strongly against them because of how MMO character development is end-heavy. "Permadeath" of cities and how to make that process more fun shares a lot of similar challenges.

Interesting comment.  This reminds me of Discussions in CoX, how people will level up to 35, and then start a new character, because of 'the horrible grind'.  They keep playing, because the low levels are fun and interesting...  That, to me, sounds like an ideal game model to have Permadeath in, and the kind of model to look at if you want to re-create that kind of feeling.  "Gee, we lost Bustedville. That sucks, but hey, now we get to do something different for New Hotness City!  Maybe this time, cobblestone streets."  Make there be a fair number of 'design' choices that are made up front, just graphical stuff, that can be changed later, but only at great expense, a la CoH costumes.  Maybe some mechanical choices as analogues to power sets; say government type or something.  Perhaps some graphical/mechanical choices that affect the type of materials needed to build structures, so a town always looks consistent, but requires certain materials; adobe vs. brick vs. wood vs. stone, or whatever.  Then someone gets to have the fun of laying out the city; which is somewhat analogous to choosing powers, the 'content' part of city-building.  Choosing where to put what.  Heck, maybe you could make placement matter; look at city-building RTS's like Emperor or Sim City, even, for possibilities.  Now you have a chance to try a different tack in placement, perhaps try to maximize some other stat by appeasing different spirits, or some such.

--
Alkiera

"[I could] become the world's preeminent MMO class action attorney.  I could be the lawyer EVEN AMBULANCE CHASERS LAUGH AT. " --Triforcer

Welcome to the internet. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used as evidence against you in a character assassination on Slashdot.
Typhon
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Reply #5 on: June 25, 2007, 05:41:12 PM

Make losing a great opportunity for revenge.  As I was reading this I thought of a game that didn't (seem) to revolve around combat, but actually is pretty vicious.  Idea is that you are an up and coming star.  As you star in movies/t.v./music you get more and more popular.  Then there is the PvP aspect, you can start rumors, do dirty deal, steal girlfriends/boy friends that ends up destroying the other person's career.  So, you are more popular, but the mob, er, fans, also would like it if you fell from grace (meteoric rises to fame, followed by meteoric plummets to infamy).

The crushed star/starlet is then restet as a complete unknown (only to reveal themselves later!), with a new idenfity, which puts you in a better position to repay the favor and crush those that crushed you - along with the fans being more inclined for the current top dog to eat shit.

Of course this mechanism could be used in more straight-up combat games.  Especially where it was strongly in a guild's interest to take on new players and promote them to positions of authority (something like dukes needing a council of counts to manage his towns/counties).  It would be necessary for players to maintain character stature, rather then character identity.  Add in that deposing another leader makes the populous unhappy, and you have a situation where it's not so bad to be deposed, and it's hard to stay at the top of the hill.
Fordel
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Reply #6 on: July 04, 2007, 07:24:56 PM

Kinda like how you get turned into the Bomb when all your balloons get popped in MarioKart 64? "I may have lost, but I'm taking you with me!"

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
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