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Author Topic: Be your own boss, make that MMO!  (Read 34453 times)
tmp
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Reply #70 on: March 17, 2007, 01:51:01 PM

Hey, that golf game is actually quite good :)

Let's talk something serious, how the hell it works exactly? I cannot understand what experience/ranks is used for. I also cannot understand the special shoots.

It was quite a few months since I played it, but if I remember right your character has level indicated by rank. Depending how well you perform in matches, you earn experience points and advance in the rank. When it happens, you receive attributes points which you can spend to improve force of your swing, how much you can curve shots, accuracy and how effective your special shots are.

Because characters with higher rank have these attributes higher and thus are able to finish courses in less strokes, people typically indicate when they look for others to play with that they want to play with people of certain rank or above/below. The other way to measure performance is character sheet, as it stores your 'records' -- i.e. least amount of strokes you used to complete given course. So often there's request for say, players that used at least X shots to finish the course etc.

The special shots are used to pull off some more tricky maneuvers. For example, if you normally hit water, your ball will sink there. But if you manage to give the ball forward spin, when it hits the water it will skip across the surface a couple times. Sometimes it allows to cross distances that would otherwise require an extra shot. Another use are the strong curved shots which allow to clear 90+ degrees curves and such. Things like 'tomahawk' shot allow to place ball in a spot on tilted surface rather than have it roll down the slope. Or a more advanced application, you can combine tomahawk shot with spin back or spin forth to say, plant the ball on the green and then have it roll into the hole all in one stroke. There should be some examples in the movie section of their website, hopefully.


Quote
From what I see I can earn about 500 gold in about two hours. Is there any way to improve that? When you pass ranks you progressively earn more or what?

You earn the money depending on performance in the match. For example if you are lucky to hit the hole from large distance --using the special shots like mentioned above or simply through skill-- it can earn you 1000+ coins for that shot alone but this is rather rare. Then there's extra money for finishing course under par, having the ball roll farther on first shot than it would normally be possible, having the ball bounce off objects etc. There's also things like bonus for 'perfect' stroke i.e. hitting the ball right when the indicator passes the white mark (you get the 'pangya!' sound when it happens) ... generally you are paid more if you play in "impressive" way, landing the ball in hole with trick shots, managing to hit the hole with normal club rather than putter and sinking it straight rather than roll into it... stuff like that.

There's also special mode of play (battle?) which has up to 4 players compete and at the end of match the person who manages to finish in least strokes and hit closest to the final hole gets all the money while the others pay out of their pocket. But overall the money earning rate is rather steady, you are able to earn more as you advance through ranks simply because you are able to perform better on the courses with your improved attributes, gear and skill.


Quote
And to have your record sheet filling up are you forced into a 18 holes match?

Some of the fields in the record sheet indicate your performance in full matches so if you want to have these fields filled, then yes. But you can clear such match in 25-30 minutes once you become rather familiar with them, so it's not that much of a bother.
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Reply #71 on: March 17, 2007, 04:27:33 PM

The point is: why I'd care about Pangya money if the only thing I'm interested in (unlocking another char or another caddie) is deep buried after 100+ gaming hours I'll NEVER spend on a golf game?

These carrots are just not well spaced and granular. The only stuff I can buy are cheat items, and those cheat items are one-use, meaning that I could finish to spend for a match more than I earn.

It's like contradictory game design.

-HRose / Abalieno
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tmp
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Reply #72 on: March 17, 2007, 05:07:43 PM

The point is: why I'd care about Pangya money if the only thing I'm interested in (unlocking another char or another caddie) is deep buried after 100+ gaming hours I'll NEVER spend on a golf game?

These carrots are just not well spaced and granular. The only stuff I can buy are cheat items, and those cheat items are one-use, meaning that I could finish to spend for a match more than I earn.

It's like contradictory game design.
The 'cheat items' are priced low enough to make it very viable to use at least 4-6 of them per full match, sometimes more... simply because they allow you to pull off shots that gain you far more game money than skipping them. E.g. one of the courses is defined as 'par 5'. With a bit of skill it can be finished in 3 strokes. But using the power shot (presuming you had enough tactical sense to build up needed energy for last few courses) combined with the tomahawk shot and presumably one of the items that slow the swing indicator down to allow you pull off such maneuver... you can finish this course in two strokes or if you are good in single one. Something that earns you much more game money than cost of single powerup item.

There's a bit of risk factor to these items (they won't work 100% of time) but generally they aren't really contradictory, it's just matter of playing the game a few times and getting familiar with its abilities.

Also, there's a number of items which you can buy considerably faster than another character/caddy and that will grant enhancement to your character's attributes. Now I can't guess why you wouldn't be interested in these, but it's not exactly the carrots are as widely spaced as you make it sound -- you just choose to ignore some of them..?
Falconeer
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Reply #73 on: March 17, 2007, 07:30:33 PM

More on that. Characters are only buyable with pangs and you can only bet pangs (not cookies) on the battle server.
Rule of the thumb:

- Characters are unlocked with pangs
- All the other items are a mix of the two, same for caddies.

There's lots of stuff you can't actually buy with real $$ and have to sweat on the green to get.

tmp
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Reply #74 on: March 17, 2007, 07:53:29 PM

More on that. Characters are only buyable with pangs
I think you can actually use cookie points to buy character together with clothes/gear as single "set" item, while pangs are used to buy character alone without the gear/outfits. Maybe that changed since the time I played, though.
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Reply #75 on: March 17, 2007, 09:22:06 PM

You are right, TMP.

EDIT: deleted useless stuff. It's late here and I am having visions.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2007, 09:26:26 PM by Falconeer »

HRose
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Reply #76 on: March 17, 2007, 09:36:49 PM

That's the real problem of RMT: the business model goes *against* the overall quality of the game.

Aside ethics that's the fact. RMT exist at the expense of gameplay while other business model aren't as counterproductive.

-HRose / Abalieno
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Azazel
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Reply #77 on: March 17, 2007, 09:52:32 PM

This is going to be a fun game.

To watch.

From a safe distance.


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HRose
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Reply #78 on: March 18, 2007, 01:34:36 AM

Uhm, someone can explain me the difference between this and this?

-HRose / Abalieno
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Trippy
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Reply #79 on: March 18, 2007, 01:51:00 AM

Uhm, someone can explain me the difference between this and this?
Same game, different name. Albatross18 is the US-named/version of PangYa.
Venkman
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Reply #80 on: March 18, 2007, 08:45:19 AM

That's the real problem of RMT: the business model goes *against* the overall quality of the game.

Aside ethics that's the fact. RMT exist at the expense of gameplay while other business model aren't as counterproductive.
Legit-RMT is a legitimate business model. You can make a lot more money from a lot less players with microtrans, and that's important if you don't think your game is going to push EQ1 numbers, much less GW or WoW.

For example, nowhere near every Maplestory player actually buys all of their advancement in the game (it calculates out to be something like 2% of them), yet there's a lot of folks who like the game anyway. So the question isn't whether microtrans replaces flat-fee games. It's more about getting as many people in as possible through a free game and then collecting what cash you can from the relatively few that want to spend the money on it.

If they can pull that off, EVERYONE benefits. If not, they'll push like heck for microtrans because there's just more money to be made. But there'll always be the old school holdouts to fall back on, so it's all good.
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Reply #81 on: March 18, 2007, 09:04:06 AM

That's the real problem of RMT: the business model goes *against* the overall quality of the game.

Aside ethics that's the fact. RMT exist at the expense of gameplay while other business model aren't as counterproductive.
Legit-RMT is a legitimate business model. You can make a lot more money from a lot less players with microtrans, and that's important if you don't think your game is going to push EQ1 numbers, much less GW or WoW.
No, you can't, or at least they haven't figure out how to do that yet. I know you think Maple Story and RMT games are the greatest things since sliced bread but really, the economic model is still being developed. Let's take Maple Story as an example. It had over 50 million players world-wide in 2006, that's over 7x the size of WoW in 2006. It's monthly revenue back then was around US$16 million which is pretty nice but pales in comparison to the US$50 million or so a month WoW was making last year. To have made the same amount of money WoW was making Maple Story would've needed around 150 million players world-wide or more than 20x the number of players WoW had.
Venkman
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Reply #82 on: March 18, 2007, 10:14:49 AM

Actually, to clarify, I don't particularly care for nor against RMT/microtransactions. I like flat-fee games because I don't like being nickled-and-dimed for things a good game would let me achieve. It's just a business model to consider objectively against the other forms out there (advergaming, ingame-ad supported, flat-fee, etc). Doesn't mean I like it or support it, but my opinion doesn't impact companies considering it either.

When discussing this sort of thing we need to consider more than just the number of subscribers, itself not a good direct comparison.

  • Maplestory did not cost anywhere near $75mil to create. You only need to download the client to see that :) This is one part of the cumulative set of reasons they can offer the client for free and have no monthly fee.
  • It does not cost anywhere near $14.99 per account to keep running. Nor does WoW of course, but WoW as a game of content delivered in that form is way more expensive to support and continue to expand than Maplestory.
  • 50mil vs 8.5mil doesn't matter. The former is at best eyeballs to show off for ad-space sales. The latter is immediately split between money directed to VUG per account and a royalty they collect from The9. Both are fairly similar game play experiences, though visually they couldn't be more different (well, ok, if MS was dos-based, maybe). And yet, both games are hugely successful in their own rights.

The point isn't how much money Nexon is making vs how much money Blizzard makes. It's how much profit both make versus the effort to get that. This is the sort of thing a lot of companies are looking at. The way to look at this would be other things like Habbo, Club Penguin, Webkinz, Miuchiz Monsterz, and so on. You know as well as I every MMO is not going to be for the Lum-diaspora crowd, and therefore shouldn't be viewed in that same light.

WoW raised the bar beyond the height many companies could reach, so they've got no choice but to look for different ways of making their own money grabs. Blizzard/VUG spent a great deal more than most companies would have the stomach to spend "taking a chance" on what was otherwise considered an extremely niche market. But they also had many advantages others didn't nor still have.
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Reply #83 on: March 18, 2007, 10:33:43 AM

Once again you are dodging the issue that you brought up when somebody refutes it. What a surprise.
tmp
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Reply #84 on: March 18, 2007, 10:44:49 AM

Uhm, someone can explain me the difference between this and this?
"SEA" in the name stands for South Eastern Asia. It's like WoW Europe and WoW US, just for different world regions. The SEA version may be a few iterations ahead of the Western version (Albatross 18) and different versions sometimes introduce different, region-specific content... but they use the same code overall.
Venkman
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Reply #85 on: March 18, 2007, 10:56:44 AM

Once again you are dodging the issue that you brought up when somebody refutes it. What a surprise.

Here we go again. You want me to say you're right? Fine:

Quote from: Trippy
To have made the same amount of money WoW was making Maple Story would've needed around 150 million players world-wide or more than 20x the number of players WoW had.
You're right.

But what's the point of that comparison? It's irrelevant. Maplestory is not up against WoW and vice versa. Would Nexon like$150mil a month? Sure! Do they need it?

The games cost nowhere near the same to create nor run. They collect money a completely different way. Both have grown. Both continue to exist. Both are not going anywhere anytime soon which means both are extremely profitable. Will MS work in the West as well as WoW did? There's no clean way of comparing. "Number of accounts" doesn't tell us shit. It's about the profit and the needs to achieve them and the willingness and capabilities of the companies behind them to leverage the advantages they have. That's not dodging. That's fact descriptive of why "MMO" is more than "they're trying to be like EQ1 or UO". Those days are dead and buried.

Now, if that doesn't cover it, what am I dodging?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2007, 11:03:19 AM by Darniaq »
Secundo
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Reply #86 on: March 18, 2007, 06:44:56 PM

I was just thinking that maybe this isnt about developing a game at all.. Maybe it's just a twist or spinoff off the crappy tv shows that seems to be popular these days, like hell's kitchen, american idol etc.. Ie the content is of secondary concern as long as it brings in a lot of innocent young viewers.

It does seem a bit weird to choose mmo development for this, since I would think that is still very niche, but after the success of WoW, who knows what the marketing people are thinking?


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Kail
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Reply #87 on: March 18, 2007, 07:19:03 PM

I was just thinking that maybe this isnt about developing a game at all.. Maybe it's just a twist or spinoff off the crappy tv shows that seems to be popular these days, like hell's kitchen, american idol etc.. Ie the content is of secondary concern as long as it brings in a lot of innocent young viewers.

The one minor flaw with this scheme is that none of this is being filmed.  And if I was trying to attract innocent, young veiwers, I wouldn't do it with, y'know, this "document your source code, TO THE XTREME" kind of thing.
KallDrexx
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Reply #88 on: March 18, 2007, 07:28:35 PM

I was just thinking that maybe this isnt about developing a game at all.. Maybe it's just a twist or spinoff off the crappy tv shows that seems to be popular these days, like hell's kitchen, american idol etc.. Ie the content is of secondary concern as long as it brings in a lot of innocent young viewers.

It does seem a bit weird to choose mmo development for this, since I would think that is still very niche, but after the success of WoW, who knows what the marketing people are thinking?

It's an interesting notion except for one problem.  Money is being pumped to make this game but there has to be a solid product at the end to make any money off of it. 
Secundo
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Reply #89 on: March 18, 2007, 08:36:31 PM

Yeah I know, I don't really believe in my(crappy) idea either but after seeing what is out there on tv at this very monent I can't just leave it.. There is far worse ideas being realised as we type this hehe..  The interest of this show wouldnt be the coding or any of the technical stuff of course... It would focus on the drama between the lead designer, his team and the rabid fanboys!.

Now.. Don't tell me that some semi-talented holllywoodite couldnt make a show out of this?

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Reply #90 on: March 22, 2007, 01:07:09 AM

Bwahahaha. This is going to be fun to watch. Latest news on the project is that the game won't have any testers nor QA.

How? The players will do that work for free, of course:
Quote
“Normally, you pay 20 or 30 people to test a game for six months. You give them office space. You buy computers for them. It’s a huge cost. Instead, we decided to include the community every single chance we get, so all the testing is done by consumers. They test everything 100%.”
And bots!
Quote
“With advanced self testing, the games play themselves. With automated testing the bot will try to go in every possible direction and in every room, every day, in every part of your game, trying to get up through the ceilings and everything.”
*chuckle*

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Trippy
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Reply #91 on: March 22, 2007, 02:32:36 AM

Quote
“With advanced self testing, the games play themselves. With automated testing the bot will try to go in every possible direction and in every room, every day, in every part of your game, trying to get up through the ceilings and everything.”
*chuckle*
Actually that's useful. There's a similar technique used for testing code where something generates semi-random "garbage" inputs to check how resilient your program is to bad data.
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Reply #92 on: March 22, 2007, 03:55:01 AM

Wondering if you'll be able to RMT-purchase one of those bots once (?) the thing will go live.

Kail
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Reply #93 on: March 27, 2007, 10:01:50 PM

Project forums are live, allegedly:

http://phpbb.acclaim.com/topsecret/index.php

Quote
WOW!

We emailed our TOP SECRET development team to tell them our forums are now officially open.

The response has been so amazing the servers are struggling to handle the pressure! What a great problem to have! Don't worry we have plenty more hardware to bring on line, so please check back soon.

- The Acclaim Team.

Yay, the server is crashing!  It's like some magical, happy dream, or something (?).

Also:

Quote
I'm going to personally hire someone full-time right out of the forums, in
the first week!   I've posted details of how to be spotted.

Uh, okay, so, the forums are going to be working before the end of the week, then....?  Maybe? 
Venkman
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Reply #94 on: March 28, 2007, 09:15:45 AM

Oh come on guys, can how can 23,000 budding developers all be wrong...  rolleyes

(as an aside, is Qj.net the most annoying news aggregator going, or is it just me?)
HRose
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Reply #95 on: March 29, 2007, 05:10:33 AM

I gave a quick glance at the forum and while there are plenty of crazy ideas there are sometimes glimpses of something nice.

For example what about a game where you start with an "egg".

This is already a winning concept: what is inside the egg? A surprise! This is game design, people like surprises.

So say you start the game with this egg. Maybe you can choose the "color" of the egg, like a general preference. As you start the game you would have already something unique. Your creature will have generated stats that will likely differs from the stats of other creatures that other players have. And then you can pull a "Harvest Moon" and breed things, mix genes and things like that.

This concept of "surprise" after all is the ESSENCE of Diablo's success, as Shild would admit. The loot is a prize and the loot is a surprise (generated stats). The monster or the race you win is the box to open. Viva pinata :)

After all concepts like this one sell games.

-HRose / Abalieno
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Falconeer
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Reply #96 on: March 29, 2007, 12:09:48 PM

An egg with a surprise in it? Without the need to be blasphemous and invoke Easter, I'd say it has been analogically (as opposed to digitally) done already:



Are you sure that "this is game design"?

pxib
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Reply #97 on: September 11, 2007, 01:38:49 PM

NECROOOO POOOOOST

They've got a design document.

It's going to be a beast breeding/training/racing game. Now they want the modding community to do some work for them. They're offering prizes... and they'll license any engine the winner wants them to.

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tmp
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Reply #98 on: September 15, 2007, 11:12:32 AM

It's going to be a beast breeding/training/racing game. Now they want the modding community to do some work for them.
Quote
The Visual Style:
Some form of Anime… We’re looking for originality.
Good one  :-D
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Reply #99 on: September 17, 2007, 11:00:49 AM

Without thinking about it too hard, they should probably use TADS.

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